Two of Rudy 911’s “business associates” have been arrested for campaign finance violations:
Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman have been under investigation by the U.S. Attorney’s office in Manhattan and are expected to appear in federal court in Virginia later on Thursday.
According to the indictment, Parnas, Fruman and other defendants “conspired to circumvent the federal laws against foreign influence by engaging in a scheme to funnel foreign money to candidates for federal and state office so that the defendants could by potential influence with the candidates, campaigns, and the candidates’ governments.”
I’m sure they’ll keep their mouths shut and that will be the end of this.
hells littlest angel
Two more innocent victims of the Deep State. Sad!
James E Powell
I’m surprised that Rudy didn’t have his usual advance notice of this action.
David Anderson
Congressman #1 is Pete Sessions (R-Tx-32) who lost in November
Who are Nevada Candidates 1&2?
Given the way the indictment was written, I think they lost in November.
Cervantes
One can imagine that this has enormous import, or turns out to be a minor sideshow. Hard to believe Barr’s DoJ would pursue this if it’s the former, but maybe SDNY still has some integrity. We’ll know more soon, I hope.
Anonymous At Work
Will their lawyer show up in court to defend them? That’s what I want to know…
mrmoshpotato
It’s like all these bastards are a bunch of crooks!
Jeffro
The roll-up has begun!
I’m sure they’ll keep quiet, dontcha think?
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
Timing is fortuitous on this one, seeing as they were due to speak with House investigators. Now the executive branch controls their housing and all access (together with seized evidence), plus the ever more useless judiciary will move at a snail’s pace to consider applications for access to them.
There will be no comity, only stonewalling and invocations of the Fifth.
waspuppet
Just in case anyone wasn’t clear on what the likes of Rudy Giuliani mean when they say “law and order.”
Aleta
Since the news says the extreme-right terrorist will appear in court in El Paso today, I’m thinking of that horrible photo of Trump standing with his big ugly grin and thumb up, alongside an infant whose parents Andre and Jordan Anchondo were murdered that day. They’re survived by a 6 year old child also.
rikyrah
UH HUH
UH HUH
Pols seek answers on sick immigrant medical program
Pressley, Markey say Trump administration not following through on reinstatement
SARAH BETANCOURT
CONGRESSWOMAN AYANNA PRESSLEY and Sen. Ed Markey say the Trump administration has not followed through on its pledge to reinstate a program that helps seriously ill immigrants remain in the country legally without risk of deportation.
The program, called medical deferred action, provides temporary legal immigration status for sick immigrants that cannot otherwise be treated in their home countries. The program was canceled and then reinstated by the Trump administration over the past two months.
At a roundtable event at the American Civil Liberties Union of Massachusetts on Wednesday, Pressley said attorneys working for patients in the program say they have received no confirmation of the reversal from the Trump administration.
“None of their clients have received formal approval of their medical deferred action claim since the administration announced it was reinstating this program,” she said.
commonwealthmagazine.org/immigration/pressley-markey-seek-answers-on-sick-immigrant-program/
JPL
John Dowd is their attorney. Geez that name seems familiar. John Dowd, attorney to the mob…
chris
Speaking of Rudy…
Jay C
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
I have the unpleasant feeling that you’re quite right on this: however, one silver lining might be that the case against Parnas and Fruman (which, fortunately, can be spun in very simple terms as one of “illegal foreign campaign money”) is still going to be out there: and any attempt by DoJ to stifle the publicity can be put neatly into the “what are they hiding?” category. Which (if the House Committee is doing its job) can be fitted right in to the main charges against Mango Mussolini and his creatures…
NYCMT
They were supposed to be deposed in Congress today and tomorrow, but had refused to appear and were going to be subpoena’ed.
Maybe my legal education is lacking and I am too stupid to see subtleties, but there are two more issues beyond the immediate fact of federal pretrial custody preventing the appearance of the two men for a deposition in the near term (IE, SDNY and the Justice Department obstructing Congress in terms of evidence gathering via testimony or forcing document production under subpoena. Presumably the SDNY has search warrants):
1) An opportunity has been wasted for either Fruman or Parnas to give false testimony or take the fifth in front of Congress, or to give truthful testimony that would be admissible in a trial against them as admissions against penal interest. Or for Parnas and Fruman to produce documents voluntarily.
2) The unpalatable option that the House now has to immunize both men for their testimonies will cloud any prosecution.
Geoffrey Berman and Bill Barr are gangsters.
Cacti
I have a feeling these two are about to commit “suicide”.
Yarrow
@David Anderson:
This could be awkward since he just announced on October 3rd that he’s running for a different House seat.
rikyrah
???
?This is one of the realest interviews on Kamala Harris I’ve seen thus far. Erika Alexander interviews Jemele Hill all about Kamala from campaign strategy to her black support. This is a great read. t.co/KZISN0hC4t pic.twitter.com/vSJN6Gbs19
— MilkChocolateMAK (@NovusDivus) October 9, 2019
rikyrah
Truth??
This here is why I can’t with these Never Trumpers man.
There are no good guys in the Trump administration.
Not current but or former Trump officials.
Anyone who agreed to serve in this administration is scum.
Stop trying to salvage what cannot be salvaged. t.co/DTgCx5MDeQ
— Wakandan War Dog (@Kennymack1971) October 10, 2019
Adam L Silverman
They aren’t Giuliani’s buddies or business associates. They are two of his financial backers who are Putin aligned oligarchs from former Soviet states. They are also Bratva.
rikyrah
????
Mark Zuckerberg had a private meeting with Trump on 9/19 and low & behold FB is now allowing Trump to use known lies in his FB campaign ads! Seriously FB? WTF? t.co/bAJNGMy5Bc
— ML Smith (@maria48308) October 10, 2019
Adam L Silverman
@James E Powell: Why do you think they were trying to get out of the country last night?
rikyrah
The evidence is the North and South Carolina polls that have Warren at 4 and 3 percent with Black voters respectively. If those numbers don’t improve that’s a serious problem and yes, Black voter turnout (esp in the south) in the general would be a legitimate question t.co/rksaPRcq6Y
— Marcus H. Johnson (@marcushjohnson) October 9, 2019
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: T signed a proclamation about a health insurance requirement which will make it difficult for many American citizens to sponsor immediate family for a GC in all this impeachment brouhaha.
It was never about the “illegals”.
Jamie
@David Anderson:
Man, I busted my ass to help get Pete Sessions out of office here in Dallas, so I am just laughing like hell right now.
Adam L Silverman
@Cervantes:
This wasn’t the SDNY or the NY Field Office of the FBI. Given that the violations involve former members of Congress in Texas and candidates in Nevada, this could’ve been the Dallas Field Office, the Salt Lake City Field Office, and/or the Public Integrity Division at main Justice and FBI.Disregard, apparently this is a SDNY case.
Adam L Silverman
@Anonymous At Work: According to statements that he made last week, Rudy claims to be their lawyer. As do DiGenova and Toensing. Though Dowd, who was the moron who had been representing the President in the Mueller investigation before he was fired and Giuliani was brought on, informed Congress last week that he was representing them.
patrick II
I have read that true entrepreneurs see the world differently than most of us. We look around and see problems, they see the same thing but with a different perspective, everywhere they look they see the problems but it’s an opportunity for profit by problem-solving. I think Republicans see the same thing too, but for them its an opportunity for profit by criminal action. I had that thought after I read
Every problem is an opportunity for criminality. It is the way they see the world. It’s the opposite of wearing rose colored glasses, except I don’t know what color would show criminal opportunity and contempt for law everywhere. Thorn colored glasses? Everywhere you look with these guys its crime, crime, crime. It is so tiresome.
HBO could have a 500 episode
mini-series.Adam L Silverman
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: They were never going to show up for those depositions.
Leto
Between the Kurds and UK teen Harry Dunn being killed outside the base Avalune and I left (head-on collision on his motorcycle because the wife was driving on the wrong side of the road), my rage meter has been pegged at 15 out of 10.
Adam L Silverman
@Aleta: Link would have been a nice accoutrement to the excerpt.
James E Powell
@Adam L Silverman:
This I did not know. I’m sure it was a long-scheduled business trip. Or perhaps a relative was ill.
AnotherBruce
Rudy can fail. Ok someone had to state the obvious.
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
Who is/are black people supporting by a majority? Old Joe? Bernie? Kamala or EW (or Cory or Julian or Pete) would be more energetic and proactive.
Bernie would be 80 when he took office. I can’t watch Joe anymore and not see weariness and rapidly advancing age.
Leto
@rikyrah: How is this different from Stein/BernieBro voters who say that if their preferred candidate doesn’t get the nom, they’re simply going to stay home? I hope all the people you keep linking on here recognize the existential threat a second Trumpov term represents and might encourage some of their followers to, you know, vote for the eventual Dem nominee.
Also who do they support? One of the last people you linked, all the commenters on the follow-on tweets were Bernie/Yang supporters. Is that who they support? If not, who?
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
This is a very serious question, because I want to understand the situation: Who do African-American voters support enthusiastically? Last I heard, Biden’s lead was not because he’s greatly loved, but because black voters want the highest possible chance of beating Trump. He certainly has his own issues with race. Did I hear wrong? Harris is not polling well, whether or not she’s loved by her supporters. Is there good polling data other than ‘first choice’ we can look at so that I can understand the issue?
jl
Giuliani announces he’s discovered more countries involved in the global treasonous coup plotting against King Trump, and hiding the world historic Biden tera-giga-scandal: Romania, and another to be names later!
So we have Australia, UK, Ukraine, Italy, (any I’ve forgotten?) and Romania! And one more dirty rat to be revealed.
Giuliani Cryptically Tells Fox News To ‘Watch Romania’ — And Another Country
talkingpointsmemo.com/news/giuliani-romania-biden-ukraine-scandal
Cheryl Rofer
Adam L Silverman
@West of the Rockies:Right now the polling indicates that a majority of older African Americans are supporting Biden while a majority of younger African Americans are supporting Sanders.
rp
@rikyrah: What is the point of all of these comments?
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: @Leto: @Frankensteinbeck: One of the questions here is whether Warren really has a weakness with African Americans or whether it is simply the reality that she is still introducing herself to them. Unlike Biden and Sanders, what name recognition Warren had/has is in Massachusetts/New England and among white liberals and progressives. And among conservatives who think she’s the boogeyman. So it is unclear at this point if she has a problem or if she’s got room for actual improvement. It has been well reported that at every event she does that is focused on African Americans she gets standing ovations, rave reviews, and if it is a multiple candidate event, she gets the longest and loudest ovations.
Mike in DC
Whoever we nominate needs to run on a strong anti-corruption message. The current president fairly reeks of corruption.
Another Scott
@Adam L Silverman: There’s no reason why they can’t be deposed while in jail, is there? Federal Rule of Criminal Procedure 15 seems to cover it, but maybe it’s different for House depositions. IANAL.
Cheers,
Scott.
glory b
@Frankensteinbeck: My anecdotal take:
Biden, because he always polls as most likely to beat Trump, Warren polls as least likely.
Black people were enthusiastic about Obama because of who he was, we are generally not particularly enthused, we are practicing realpolitik and voting in our best interests.
Lots of my friends and relatives were horrified by how whiny the Bernie supporters got after the primary, the notion of this wild enthusiasm was kind of foreign to us.
I’ll also note the unexpected turn by young black people, which we now know was fueled by Russian bots on social media. Joy Reid said at the time that it became fashionable for her sons’ friends to say they weren’t voting. They actually expected Clinton to win anyway.
I think that a lot of white lefties voted for Obama because it was seen as a subversive kind of action, they didn’t pay that much attention to his policies.
Lots of regular, consistent black voters are kind of small c conservative, we just don’t generally expect those beliefs to be codified, like Repubs do.
Not many believe in this big, expansive vision of reform. We just want Trump gone.
Frankensteinbeck
On the AA vote for Warren front, I found this polling which is pretty recent. Warren’s unfavorable or very unfavorable percentage is as low as Biden’s, but her ‘don’t know’ is high. I’m all for listening to the Democratic Party’s real base, but I’m not seeing from this data that Warren would be a drag on AA enthusiasm.
EDIT = @glory b:
And this is a totally reasonable, supportable preference. If the black vote sticks with Biden because of it or for any other reason, full steam ahead with Biden. But it’s different that claiming Warren will depress the black vote.
Marcopolo
I find it helpful to actually provide links to. & quotes from the actual polls themselves. From yesterday’s PPP NC poll (link: publicpolicypolling.com/polls/trump-trails-leading-democrats-in-north-carolina/):
“Biden leads the Democratic primary in the state with 39% to 22% for Warren, 9% for Buttigieg, 6% for Sanders, 3% for Harris and Andrew Yang, 2% for Cory Booker, and 1% each for Julian Castro and Beto O’Rourke. There is a massive racial divide. Warren leads Biden 31-26 with white voters, with Buttigieg also entering double digits at 12%. But with African American voters Biden gets 63% to 6% for Sanders with Warren and Buttigieg each getting 3% along with O’Rourke.
There’s actually a hopeful note for Warren about African American voters in this poll though. She is quite popular with them, a 69/9 favorability rating. Black voters like Biden even better- an 84/6 favorability- and that’s why almost two-thirds of them are planning to vote for him right now. But the fact that Warren is by and large at least liked by black voters even if she’s not their first choice at this point suggests there is room for her support to grow in the 5 months before North Carolinians actually vote.”
I’d blockquote the text but it’s a serious pain to do so on my phone. Apologies.
Kay
@Mike in DC:
Agreed. But we can make it broader and positive. Not just “anti-corruption”. Good government. IMO people are absolutely desperate for it. It’s supposed to operate in the background, and thus allow people to just do their thing.
These Right wing nuts have managed to do two things at the same time- they’ve managed to make it not work at all WHILE creating constant chaos and drama and a big ruckus and constant, constant attention on their horrible politicians and low quality hires.
Adam L Silverman
@Another Scott: I’m the “this is how you do the military planning to overthrow a government” front pager, not the criminal procedure front pager.
EdTheRed
First you must cure your temper
Then find a job in a paper
You need someone for a savior
Rudie can’t fail
Kay
@Mike in DC:
They didn’t just break the machine. It didn’t wind down, rrr, rrr, rr. They made it really loud and spewing smoke while it doesn’t work at all.
schrodingers_cat
@Frankensteinbeck: I am not black but I am an immigrant and I feel like EW does not speak to my concerns at all. Obama did, Kamala does, Bob Bennet before he suspended the campaign, Beto does it too. When I listen to EW I feel like she is lecturing me and not speaking to me. She just leaves me cold and bored. I do agree with her on many but not all policy prescriptions. But at a personal level she leaves me utterly unmoved. I tune out after 5 minutes of her earnest lecture.
ETA: I will vote for her if she becomes our nominee but I don’t think she is as charming or attractive to those not already in the choir and not the best candidate to take on T. YMMV.
Citizen Alan
@Frankensteinbeck:
That’s something I want to see. Certain folks continually trumpet how low EW’s polling is with African-Americans, but I have yet to see any polling on who AAs favor as a “second choice.” In any case, I have to believe that since PBO fought with EW to get the consumer protection bureau and then fully supported her senatorial campaign, he would be just as supportive of her once she won the nomination. Will African-Americans continue to be “unenthusiastic” or whatever about EW once she has won the nomination and Obama is out every day singing her praises?
David Anderson
@Adam L Silverman: We do specialize here…
Signed —
hookers and blow front pager
Adam L Silverman
@glory b: From the second volume of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence’s report on the Russian election interference in 2016 that is still ongoing today. This was released Tuesday, I just haven’t had a chance to do a post on it yet. This is from the executive summary of the findings, specifically from the bottom of p 6 and the top of p 7.
intelligence.senate.gov/sites/default/files/documents/Report_Volume2.pdf
West of the Rockies
I think we all get needing to beat Trump, but I want a candidate who a) know it’s not 1993, b) has do-able policy plans (not pie-in-the-sky Bernie ideas), and c) will represent all of America, not just nervous white Americans.
cope
There is a sweet snapshot of these two schmoes having breakfast with Donnie Jr. via RawStory.
rawstory.com/2019/10/revealed-photo-shows-rudy-giulianis-indicted-ukraine-henchmen-dining-with-don-j…
Adam L Silverman
@Mike in DC: @Kay: A Truth & Reconciliation Commission, with real teeth and the ability to prosecute, needs to be part of the 2020 campaign platform. It needs to be campaigned on. And it needs to be implemented if the Democratic candidate wins.
West of the Rockies
You know what WON’T defeat Trump? Not voting for whoever our candidate ends up being. Personally, I hope it’s Kamala or Elizabeth.
schrodingers_cat
@Citizen Alan:
Your comment assumes that black people are children who will behave when instructed on how to behave by someone they respect. Condescending much?
schrodingers_cat
@West of the Rockies: She is my senator, I voted for her in 2018 and if she is on the ballot as our nominee for President, I will vote for her and canvas for her as well.
The Moar You Know
@Adam L Silverman: That’s…a different breed of cat, as they say.
BR
@schrodingers_cat:
I guess I can add that my parents, who are also Indian immigrants, have liked Warren since her senate campaign days. So this isn’t a universal that has something to do with being an immigrant… I have no problem with your perspective — that’s what the primary is about — hashing out who we want to collectively run with in the Fall. The thing that matters most to me is that we unify and work like crazy no matter who gets the nod.
There isn’t going to be another Obama-level campaigner for another 50 years — the last person who had his magic was maybe Bobby Kennedy (from my understanding of history, not personal experience). We need “really good”, not “Obama-level” this time around, because we can’t hope for the latter.
BR
@Adam L Silverman:
I’ve noticed some Never Trumpers (the more sincere ones) talking about this lately, in passing. I wonder if the idea is catching on and needs to be talked about a lot but not forcefully, so even some ex-GOPers get on board (because it’ll only work if it has broad legitimacy).
Adam L Silverman
@The Moar You Know: Yep. That’s the thing that most people don’t keep in their mental foreground enough: Putin is the krysha (ceiling) fro the Bratva. All of these Russian and other post-Soviet state oligarchs, senior intel officials, etc who are aligned with him are Bratva. And they get their protection from him. It is why Putin has comingled the functions of Russia’s state, especially its security and intelligence services, with those of the Bratva. They are, essentially, inseparable at this point. Russia isn’t an organized crime state. It is an organized criminal organization that functions as a state because it ate the state.
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
Does that mean mafia or secret police?
Cheryl Rofer
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
Never ever ever was about the ‘ illegals.’
Hopefully folks will finally catch a clue.
PJ
@EdTheRed:
Stop your messing around
Better think of your future
Time you straighten right out
Creating problems in town
A Message to You, Rudy
Stop your fooling around
Time you straighten right out
Better think of your future
Else you wind up in jail
A Message to You, Rudy
schrodingers_cat
@BR: I only speak for myself. I was just giving some background of where I am coming from, that’s all.
Leto
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s also been reported that as more black voters get to know her, the more support she draws from them. She’s continuing to go up with them. Is it still low? Yup. But is it moving in the right direction? Yup.
@glory b:
So I’ve read in multiple places that POC weren’t big on Obama until he showed he could win, with his 1st place in Iowa and 2nd in NH. That their support had been behind HRC, but after he actually showed he could win, that it started moving towards him.
So I’ll ask you the same as I did rikyrah, and what I’ve asked you before: who do you support? Follow up: if your preferred candidate doesn’t get the nom, are you going to sit it out? Personally I think that’s a valid question considering your continuing statements here (essentially firebombing EW without offering any actual insights into your own thinking/preferred candidate and how they’re doing).
rikyrah
@schrodingers_cat:
the thing is…all the kids on the ‘sick list’….
either their parents already paid for their healthcare, or the companies doing research using these folks as human guinea pigs were. Not a dime of taxpayer money spent.
glory b
@Marcopolo: I don’t think there is dislike for her necessarily, but she polls poorly against Trump among the top candidates. That’s probably more important.
Like I said, the most important thing is getting rid of Trump, if more middle of the road, undecided, or whatever you want to call them voters are going with Biden, he’ll get their vote.
The Obama shine doesn’t hurt.
Adam L Silverman
@BR: I think the smarter and most historic literate ones, which are the ones I’ve seen mention it recently, recognize why it will be necessary. Winning the election will not be enough. Removing the President from office will not be enough. Keeping the House and flipping the Senate will not be enough. It will be necessary to dive deep through a public facing, user friendly, transparent inquiry with actual teeth that can inflict legal pain to expose everything that was done, everything that was stolen from the citizenry, every bit of malfeasance and criminality regardless of whose partisan ox is getting gored otherwise the US will once again win the war and lose the peace.
Cheryl Rofer
Woodrow/Asim
@Frankensteinbeck: I try to stay the holy fuck out of the POTUS discussions (I’m 100% for getting our Democratic asses moving on House/Senate/State/Local races, dammit!)…
…yet I really need, as a fellow African-America, to say this “Warren doesn’t appeal to Black folx” thread needs to die die unholy die.
I’m old enough to remember when this was slinging around, about Harris. I mean, am I the only MF in the room who remembers the BS about her not being “Black Enough to get the Black Vote?”
‘Cause I’m apparently the only MF who remembers who else people sweated hard over their appeal to African-Americans — Barack Obama? Seriously? Here’s a Fall 2007 Gallop polling that shows that Clinton beats Obama with AA voters, 49 to 40. This was a situation for all 2007, here’s a Reuters “fretting report” from Feb. 07 on Obama’s polling being a “sign” he “can’t win AA voters”.
You know when People Who Look Like Me moved en masse to Obama? After Iowa, if I recall correctly.
So please, PLEASE just stop posting from people who don’t have a damn memory about political processes, and esp. how key groups in this Party have historically moved — and WHY.
[EDIT: Adding that Leto has said similar, and thank you.]
rikyrah
@Adam L Silverman:
lot of lawyers for these two…what do they know (the criminals in question) to warrant all this representation?
Betty Cracker
Truth.
PJ
@Cheryl Rofer: That picture crops out Pence, who is at the far left:
twitter.com/Rschooley/status/1182310592012419074
J R in WV
@Adam L Silverman:
You mean “Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman” are actually wealthy Russians associated with Putin? And with Trump? I AM shocked… /s
Is that a specific Russian mob, as opposed to generic Russian mobs?
And why wasn’t all this detail in the news stories about these guys? Don’t answer that, I know the answer, they want us to be ignorant of these things so they cam pull the wool over our eyes more successfully.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: Russian and post Soviet state organized crime. Though under Putin there is a lot of commingling of the Bratva with the state security and intelligence services.
rikyrah
@patrick II:
this is who they are…and yes, this will have to be an arc in the Netflix limited series about the Dolt45 Presidency
schrodingers_cat
@rikyrah: Agreed. I was talking about new rule/proclamation how GC holders now need proof of adequate insurance withing 30 days of arrival and cannot be on Obamacare insurance.
rikyrah
@Frankensteinbeck:
See, this is the problem. Black folks don’t need to be ‘ in love’ with a candidate. They have a goal and go forth. The luxury of an Obama (who they did love) isn’t something that a lot of Black voters have had in their voting lifetime. They cherish the memories, but, now is now.
Dolt45 is an existential threat to our existence. Him being gone is priority A-Z.
Adam L Silverman
@rikyrah: Who knows. These guys all want everyone to think they both know everything and they know what they’re doing.
Adam L Silverman
Mike R
@patrick II: My grandfather told me that entrepreneur is french for thief.
Cheryl Rofer
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
Sure, and that’s a good position. It’s also the opposite one of the people you’ve been quoting, who seem to be saying stridently either that blacks hate Warren, or blacks will be angry if they don’t get their first pick candidate.
glory b
@Leto: I like Kamala best, in spite of the missteps she may have had. As always, I’ll be voting for the Dem candidate, no matter who (not you Tulsi).
I think some black voters have come down to earth over the enthusiasm thing, I always thought enthusiasm was overrated, something more educated, middle and upper middle class voters had the luxury to indulge in. A loss wouldn’t affect them as badly (or so they thought),
Like I said lots of people thought Clinton would win, that they could stay home in a snit and get her for president. I recall reading that some of the pipeline protesters started sitting in and disrupting her local offices before the race was over, they thought she would win, they wouldn’t vote, however.
I also heard Jill Stein(spit) on the radio, saying she would be happy to be a regular guest after the election, to critique Clinton’s presidency. Interestingly, one of the hosts of those shows has said she’s been trying to get Stein on the show but she won’t return her calls.
Lesser of two evils? It’s a binary choice, how about we vote for less evil?
rikyrah
@rp:
Well, trying to be the canary in the coal mine. That not only are the polls not good for Warren in the South, they are consistent.
WITH THE BASE OF THE PARTY.
And, this race will be won in those Southern Primaries, beginning with South Carolina. Folks keep on telling me and others that this is 2007, with Clinton and Obama, and I am of the belief that it’s 2016, with Sanders and Clinton.
We will see which one of us is correct.
Adam L Silverman
@J R in WV: The Bratva (literally the Brotherhood) is the Russian mob.
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: Green card holders? I thought the order was not yet focused on green card holders. Did you mean visa holders?
The Moar You Know
@Adam L Silverman: That is good additional information. All I know about them is from the six years I spent living in SF back in the 1990s. We had a substantial Russian population that got very quickly beaten down (usually literally) by these guys, they ran anything Russian in the town, and their violence was off the charts – and this from a town that had over a century of experience with the various forms of Asian organized crime.
The Vietnamese guys had been the gold standard of psycho, but the Russians took it up several levels. These are not people you want to be involved with in any way. That they’re running the Russian government is no surprise, but just means that government is one that can’t be dealt with in any way, shape or form until they aren’t running it anymore.
No wonder Trump does anything they ask when they ask it, no questions. I would too, frankly, if I’d put myself in the same position that he’s in…i.e. owes them favors and money. They are the kind of people that wouldn’t hesitate to take out a security detail and then beat a President of the United States to death in broad daylight in front of TV cameras.
jl
@Frankensteinbeck: Most recent poll with race/ethnic breakdown is Fox News. Fox News polls have a quantitative history, according to Nate Silver, of being high quality and accurate. SC is Biden country so far.
For commenters above asking for first or second choice, it is still Biden country across the board. Among black voters, Biden is at 61 percent, Sanders and Warren at 23 percent, and Harris at 12 percent. White voter results very similar. I think trying to game out why at this point is too speculative. Maybe SC voters, across the board are cautious and go with the consensus front runner, maybe SC being fourth primary state hasn’t gotten enough exposure to all the candidates yet. Who knows?
I think way to early to lock into hating or loving one candidate exclusively. I support Warren right now in the sense that I am contributing most to her campaign, but Harris is close second. I contributed to Inslee a little to keep his climate change positions in the debates longer, though I also think he was the best of the white dudes on policy overall. I do question his judgement on making himself a one issue candidate.
I too would like some constructive suggestions for best alternative to Warren from the Warren skeptics.
Fox News Poll results September 29-October 2, 2019, South Carolina
foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-results-september-29-october-2-2019-south-carolina
JPL
@Leto: Although nothing trump says should be surprising, somehow it still is. f.kem
Cheryl Rofer
The indictment is here.
Chyron HR
@schrodingers_cat:
Uh, don’t all the “Elizabeth Warren has a black PROBLEM!!!!!” comments assume that African-Americans are Bernie-grade psychopaths who will throw a civilization-destroying temper tantrum if their candidate loses the primary?
Chyron HR
@rikyrah:
“WE ARE THE BASE! OUR VOTES COUNT FOR MORE!!!!”
Jesus Christ. Is Joe “Well, I’m electable.” Biden really running every page from the BernieBro playbook?
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
The argument that black voters will decide the primary, so Warren’s chances are much worse than they look, is an excellent one. I swear the people you keep quoting are saying that if Warren does win, black voters will be angry and sit out the general. That’s how people here are reading it and why they’re objecting.
Elizabelle
Can you guys not see the threads of a “don’t trust white women — they’re not on your side” campaign making its way around the black twitterverse?
It seems very likely to me. Don’t forget any of the painful lessons learned in 2016.
They’re dividing us.
glory b
@rikyrah: Yep.
rikyrah
@Citizen Alan:
A candidate who wins the nomination without the support of THE BASE of the party? and, then, you turn around and expect that base to come out for said candidate?
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: IOW, my son will need to have a job with health insurance lined up that can cover his wife, before they return to the US next year after his assignment? (They just began the GC application process in the hope of having it finished before they return.)
Mandalay
@Jamie:
Well Dog is rewarding you for your fine efforts. This DailyBeast article (updated since the arrests last night) should put a smile on your face…
Sessions can have a 2020 campaign based on Ukraine, Soviet crooks, dirty money and being BFF with Giuliani.
jl
For those who will not click on anything associated with Fox News, here is link to most recent CNN poll in SC. I don’t see a first or second question, but the results seem consistent with Fox. Biden dominates among black and white voters, then Sanders, then Warren and Harris. Warren more popular with white voters than black, but among black voters, Harris and Warren roughly tied for third.
cdn.cnn.com/cnn/2019/images/09/28/rel1_sc.pdf
jl
Link to all polls via Fivethirtyeight SC Democratic primaries polling page
South Carolina’s 2020 Democratic Presidential Primary
projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-primaries/democratic/south-carolina/
The Thin Black Duke
The only black people that ain’t gonna vote for Warren are gonna be the same misogynistic assholes who were never gonna vote for a woman anyway. Period, end of story, that’s all folks.
schrodingers_cat
@Gin & Tonic: It will be challenged by ACLU and may be thrown out of court. According to immigration lawyers I follow the logic behind the proclamation is dubious and shaky.
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: Can you take a look at my question above. Thanks.
Leto
@rikyrah: But they’re not consistent. If they were consistent she’d still be at 4% or lower. Yet she keeps moving up in the polls with POC voters in the south. I don’t understand why you’re ignoring that. Is it huge leaps and bounds? Nope, but no candidate has huge leaps and bounds gains among POC. Again, who do you support? For being the “canary in the coal mine”, who are you supporting? If it’s Biden, that’s cool. Kamala? Yang? Who’s your second choice?
@jl: As gloryb stated, they just want Trump gone. Basically the same as the rest of us. For me, I’m also looking at the post trumpov environment like @Adam L Silverman: stated here. It’s not enough to get all three, how the fuck are we moving forward and fixing everything? I keep wondering how FDR would manage in this current reality. His first 100 days were historic in how sweeping and transformative his admin was. /shrug
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: GC holders for the first 5 years of the GC are eligible for Obamacare subsidies but this proclamation says that it would not deem Obamacare insurance as acceptable. So before the said visa holder gets the GC he/she has to show that they have insurance to be eligible for GC. I don’t know how it affects those who already have their GCs? Will their ability to apply for citizenship be in jeopardy? I don’t know.
ETA: They just pull out these proclamations and EOs out of their ass. Don’t put out new forms or guidelines until the deadline approaches. I remember reading that this new rule does not apply to adjustment of status (person already here on a long term visa and waiting for their GC) applications
Cheryl Rofer
Frankensteinbeck
@jl:
And a link to an approval rate poll, which seems crucial to this question. I hadn’t been able to figure out how to find good polling until I thought to look up ‘approval rate.’
J R in WV
@Leto:
We visited the Virgin Islands some years back, and I could barely walk across a city street safely, because the vehicles were never where I expected them to be. I would look the wrong way and nearly step in front of a car coming the other way!
I don’t think I could safely drive in Britain/Ireland, etc on that account. Hell, I was scared just riding in a cab from the hotel to the airport!
I wonder how long the guilty woman had been living in and driving in Britain? Just curious, in no way attempting to conjure up any justification for this murderous driving incident!
My rage level has been pretty bad for a while now… I was pretty toasted by the white supremacists continuously trying to diss President Obama, and now, words fail me.
rikyrah
@Elizabelle:
But, um……2016 made this true……..
Never forget…Black women got it right in 2016.
we took Dolt45 seriously.
we backed Hillary.
it was never a joke to us.
it was never a ‘ there’s no difference between the two candidates or parties’
it was never a purity pony/ ‘ vote your conscience’ kind of thing
I have said for a long time that I blame White Women for Dolt45.
They didn’t have to vote along the lines of Black women.
But, damn, if they had just voted like Hispanics, we would have had President Hillary Clinton.
so, no….not gonna forget that 53% in 2016. You will be SU-SPECT until the votes are tallied in November 2020.
jl
@Leto: IIRC FDR ran as much more of a centrist that the progressive he became late in his term. The FDRs first New Deal was wrongheaded on economics, and that was the time of huge mistakes like restricting supply to push prices higher, and burning crops while people went hungry nearby. That was overturned in the courts, maybe the one time a conservative supreme court made the right decision (stopped clock phenomenon, IMHO). The reactionaries who want to smear the New Deal as we know it today dishonestly talk about the First New Deal and try a bait and switch operation to pass it off as the Second New Deal, which is what he have today.
The Second New Deal was right on economics, and a good start on social policy, and was far more progressive than its predecessor. IIRC, FDR was not very ideological, but but he was very aggressive in trying what seemed to be the best idea that was presented to him, and then move on quickly a good alternative of the first did not work well, or was blocked.
Adam L Silverman
@The Moar You Know: I highly recommend this:
amazon.com/Putins-Kleptocracy-Who-Owns-Russia/dp/1476795207/ref=sr_1_1?crid=2ZN4FOPH48P4S&keywo…
rikyrah
@Leto:
And yet, for all his transformation, there were still large swaths of the American populace left out (see Negroes and Social Security as an example).
I wrote earlier this week. ….Black folks are moderate, because revolution doesn’t work out well for us.
Our revolutionaries have wound up:
1. Dead
2. In Jail
3. Exiled to another country
Leto
@JPL: It’s especially painful for Avalune and I because 1) we still have many great friends there and this is absolutely devastating for UK/US relations on a large, and small/community, scale and 2) it’s too fucking similar to my accident and how it could have turned out. I went to the diplomatic immunity wiki page to see about abuses, and JFC we can basically be lumped right in there with the worst of them. Killed local, fled country, claimed immunity…
@Frankensteinbeck: @Elizabelle: Both of these here; great, you don’t support EW so who do you support? If your candidate doesn’t make it, are you going to sit this out? Because that’s what a lot of these twits are suggesting, even if they aren’t vocal about it. IF EW or Kamala don’t make it, I’m still going to do what I can to help the nominee (except Tulsi, h/t gloryb).
Frankensteinbeck
@rikyrah:
If the support for their preferred candidate was based on ‘Whatever it takes to win’ and not love, and the candidate who wins instead is not unpopular with blacks, wouldn’t they? What I’m hearing overwhelmingly from AAs here is ‘Trump has to go, and I’m behind whoever ends up as his opponent.’
I mean, it’s also moot because if AAs don’t move heavily towards Warren, she’s not going to win the primary. I don’t see how she can get the nomination without enough support to do well with the AA vote in the general.
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
Why, oh why, must southerners be the chief concern when choosing our candidate? Do folks of any color speak for those of us living in California or Illinois or Connecticut?
Adam L Silverman
@Elizabelle: Also, don’t trust the black woman candidate either, she’s a cop influence campaign has been up and running for sometime. I guess the only bright spot is no one is giving Booker enough of a chance that they’re running a disinformation campaign on him.
West of the Rockies
@rikyrah:
Well, since beating Trump is goal #1…
Gin & Tonic
@J R in WV:
Wasn’t there a spy story, maybe even a true one, where an agent was outed by looking the wrong way before crossing a street in London?
Another Scott
@schrodingers_cat: Twitter:
essence.com/news/elizabeth-warren-climate-justice-plan/
I get that she hasn’t connected with you – people are different. But she’s clearly trying to address big problems in the country and make sure that people realize that she thinks we’re all in this together. She’s got time to make the case better, as do the rest of our candidates.
FTR – I’ve donated to her, Harris, and Castro. I’m not “all in” on anyone yet.
Cheers,
Scott.
jl
@Frankensteinbeck: Thanks very much. I’ll save that link. All the leading candidates look much the same, Biden, Sanders, Warren and Harris between 55 and 60 percent very/somewhat favorable. I think Buttigieg lags a little behind.
But, the likes of Ryan and Delaney don’t do so well.
rikyrah
@West of the Rockies:
Well, the base of the party is Black people.
Where do most Black people live? In Southern states.
Gin & Tonic
If I’m reading reports correctly, the PM of Romania has lost a no-confidence vote and the government has collapsed.
Didn’t Rudy say to watch Romania?
Adam L Silverman
@Cheryl Rofer: It also means that they’ve got every communication between them and Giuliani, between them and Don Jr., between them and the President, etc, etc, etc since the surveillance started. And since these guys are legal US residents, this isn’t FISA warrant territory, though it wouldn’t surprise me if there aren’t FISA warrants for whomever these chuckleheads were speaking to in Ukraine, Russia, and other parts of Europe and Israel.
Frankensteinbeck
@Leto:
The ONLY people I see suggesting they’ll do that are the people whose tweets Rikyah is posting, and everyone else – including other black posters – are shocked by that declaration and not sure it’s actually a widespread sentiment. I have heard some people say they wouldn’t vote for Sanders, period, but that hasn’t been relevant in this thread.
jl
@Gin & Tonic: Rudy’s revelation brought down the anti-King Trump treasonous coup plotters and Biden tera-giga-scandal cover-uppers in Romania. Clearly, obviously, end of story. (snark).
The Trumpster are starting to have trouble distinguishing between the Big Lie and the Ridiculous Lie, IMO.
West of the Rockies
@West of the Rockies:
Folks in the south, I meant to say…
Elizabelle
@Adam L Silverman: Yup. Seen that one too.
Wake up, woke peoples.
cain
@J R in WV:
Yes, they get around. Why just a few years back, the Green Arrow aka Oliver Queen was actually part of the Bratva. Having watched the entire story arc, I consider myself an expert on the Bratva. What would you like to know?
waysel
Who the hell is Marcus Johnson anyway?
Mandalay
@rikyrah: Why do you keep posting nonsense from this idiot “Marcus H. Johnson” who is obviously against Warren, and falsely posts that she has no chance in Florida?
If you don’t like Warren then have the guts to say so directly, instead of using some dunce on twitter as your proxy.
jl
@Adam L Silverman: The treasonous coup plotting FBI is efficient and ruthless. Probably the organizational paramilitary wing of Antifa. The brains behind the operation. And I’ve probably anticipated King Trump’s next presser.
Leto
@J R in WV:
Before any military are allowed to drive in country, they have to go through UK drivers training (you have to pass the UK written test, go through a 4 hour classroom portion, and have a stateside license. The UK written test is pretty darn extensive and most people have to take it 3-4 times). Our site (where the accident happened) is a joint USAF/State Dept site. When Avalune and I went through drivers training there were multiple State Dept personnel, and their eligible family members, there.
She was in country for three months. Long enough to know wtf was going on. My bigger issue is that she fled, and that we’re allowing her to stay back in the US. Per the SOFA agreement, a US military member would be in jail and awaiting trial. That’s the bigger rub in this.
@rikyrah: Yup, already know that. Who do you support? I figure I’ll keep that question copied so as you continue to firebomb one candidate, I can keep asking that as you keep ignoring it. Nobody is asking, “Who do you love” as you incorrectly asserted above. We’re asking 1) who do you support and 2) if your preferred candidate doesn’t make it, are you still going to support the Dem nominee, and tell everyone else to do the same? Is your preferred candidate in double digits? If not, why? Why aren’t they making inroads? You’ve told us, consistently, how Kamala is racking up high profile POC endorsements yet Biden is leading overwhelmingly in southern states? Why aren’t her “receipts” making more of an impact?
@jl: He’d never make it past the first round of debates today.
rp
@rikyrah: Ok, but what are you suggesting we do with that info.? Go all in on Biden? Also, as numerous people have pointed out, there’s little to no evidence that AA don’t like Warren or wouldn’t support her in the general.
satby
I just had the unmitigated joy of telling Wilmer canvassers to just keep walking here at the Farmer’s Market when they approached to ask me if I would sign the petition to get him on the ballot here in Indiana.
The one that was a customer probably won’t be back, but I don’t care.
And I never even told them what I really think of the putz.
Chief Oshkosh
@rikyrah:
Is this a trick question? Of course I expect the base to come out in favor of their party’s nominee, even if that nominee wasn’t the first choice of a plurality of the base. For 2020, I especially expect it, given that the nominee of the other party is Trump.
cain
@rikyrah:
Truth.
schrodingers_cat
@Another Scott: I will say this again, I will vote for her and canvas for her too if she gets the nomination. I have my doubts whether she is the best candidate for the general election.
@Elizabelle:
And no I am not being influenced the Russians. My opinion of EW has been pretty consistent. You can check the archives for my comments about her.
Elizabelle
@Mandalay:
Thank you. That is what I have felt like for a long time.
J R in WV
@Gin & Tonic:
“Wasn’t there a spy story, maybe even a true one, where an agent was outed by looking the wrong way before crossing a street in London?”
I don’t recall anything like that, but it sure could have been, I jumped back so hard and fast it would have been blindly obvious to anyone who saw me.
And after the first couple of near-misses on my part, I always looked both ways, twice, before stepping into the street. Scared me to death.
Mandalay
@rikyrah:
Oh really? This is from Public Polling Policy from yesterday:
Your buddy Marcus H. Johnson is full of shit. He’s a liar and an idiot.
Again, if you don’t Warren to be our candidate have the guts and honesty to say so directly. But you are constantly linking to someone with an agenda against Warren, and no understanding of polling data.
Leto
@Frankensteinbeck: That’s pretty much why I keep pressing her because she keeps reposting that shit. She either needs to state that’s her position or clarify it. She wants to beat to Trumpov, but if the candidate isn’t THE BASE candidate (even if that candidate wins the Dem nomination), then… they’re all going to sit out in protest? Nobody is asking for “enthusiasm” or “love” here. Asking to respect the process, then go forth and defeat the evil.
@The Thin Black Duke: This comment here.
jonas
I’m old enough to remember when a (iirc) Chinese-Indonesian businessman attempting to funnel money to Bill Clinton’s reelection campaign, and the money being returned right away when it was discovered, was enough to have Clinton triple-impeached and handed over to the secular arm for burning. Good times.
J R in WV
We have contributed to Senator Kamala Harris already, in part because of her good work in the Senate, in part because she is likable. I expect we will also contribute to Senator Warren, who I have come to also like quite a bit.
We feel like a former prosecutor who appears to be good at it is a pretty good choice right now.
I won’t lift a finger to help Sanders win the primary, nor Biden, who I have little respect for. I expect Sanders to drop out, he’s a fool if he doesn’t. I also expect Biden to quit once Sanders is out, and most of Sanders’ support switches to candidates not named Biden.
Obviously whoever wins the nomination will have all our support in 2020, although it would be hard for me to do actual work for some of the candidates, like Sanders and Biden.
Tulsi is a Russian stooge, so far as I can tell, as well as a crackpot dunce. Thankful she doesn’t have a ghost of a chance… I expect she will be working to sabotage whoever wins the Democratic nomination. Sanders is also, in my book, and the Russians may force him to stay in even if it kills him.
I’m glad to learn that these two henchmen of Rudy’s were being monitored closely. No surprise that many Republicans received illegal dirty money from these guys.
Wonder what the House members with illegal campaign contributions on the books will do now? Haha, sometimes I break me up! Nothing is what they’ll do, until the indictments are handed up. This is way more dirt that even I expected, and I’m pretty cynical about election fraud.
Elizabelle
I thought we are all voters. Democratic voters, pretty much here.
I volunteer at Democratic campaigns and I see — seas of women. And some wonderful men too, but primarily women. It is women who are the base of the Democratic party, and a great number of them are women of color. It is lovely to work with all of our allies to elect good and responsible government officials who have the interests of all of us at heart.
But, I guess I count for shit because
I am not THE BASE.
How very, very sad. That we can’t just be voters. And Americans who care very deeply about voting rights for all American citizens.
Sad, sad, sad.
I don’t even got a Twitter account.
I don’t count for shit.
Yarrow
Sorry, had to step away for a bit. Just getting back to this. Thanks for your response.
@schrodingers_cat:
Wait, what? Only for the first five years? What about year six? Or ten?
Yeah, this is a big concern. We have got to get rid of this dangerous, immoral, awful administration. It’s really the only way to undo this stuff.
waysel
I’ve liked rikyrah a lot for a long time, but a few of her statements today make me wonder if someone hacked her account. The BASE is justified in sitting it out if they don’t get their preferred candidate? Only if they’re suicidal, in todays landscape. Also re trusting white women, it should be noted that HRC was a……..wait for it…….. white woman. Not to imply that those 53% that voted for Dumph shouldn’t be burned at the stake, along with every other person that voted for him.
Another Scott
@rikyrah: Atrios is right that no politician “deserves” votes. They need to work for it and earn it.
I think Warren knows that. Warren and Clyburn host Student Loan Debt Relief Town Hall at SC State.
There are 142 days until the SC primary. She (and all the rest) has time to make her case.
Cheers,
Scott.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow:Sorry I was unclear. For the first five years they are eligible for only the Obama care subsidies but not Medicaid and after that both Medicaid and OCare subsidies.
schrodingers_cat
@Elizabelle: You count for a lot. I will only speak or myself. You are one of my favorite commenters. Can’t we agree to disagree about somethings?
Neldob
@schrodingers_cat: ahem, I think we are all influenced by people we respect.
Yarrow
@schrodingers_cat: Thanks for the clarification. I was really confused!
The whole thing is so awful. I really appreciate you highlighting immigration issues here. I do my best to stay on top of it all and it gets so little attention amidst all the other awfulness. Your comments on it here are so important. Thanks.
Elizabelle
@schrodingers_cat: Of course we can. Cheers.
@waysel: so odd you fear someone hacked her account. That’s the best comment on this whole damn thread. LOL.
schrodingers_cat
@Yarrow: Thanks. I appreciate it.
waysel
@Elizabelle: Thanks. A little levity ain’t a bad thing these days.
Chief Oshkosh
All this being said, and apropos of nothing, I still wish Stacey was running for something this round. I know she’s doing good works elsewhere in the political sphere, but she was a breath of fresh air and kick-ass.
Miss Bianca
@rikyrah: Well, if black voters really are as pragmatic as you say (and I have absolutely no reason not to take your word on that, makes perfect sense to me)…then, yeah.