Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

A tremendous foreign policy asset… to all of our adversaries.

Rupert, come get your orange boy, you petrified old dinosaur turd.

The arc of history bends toward the same old fuckery.

Every one of the “Roberts Six” lied to get on the court.

All hail the time of the bunny!

If you cannot answer whether trump lost the 2020 election, you are unfit for office.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

One of our two political parties is a cult whose leader admires Vladimir Putin.

Wow, I can’t imagine what it was like to comment in morse code.

Usually wrong but never in doubt

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

“A king is only a king if we bow down.” – Rev. William Barber

“Until such time as the world ends, we will act as though it intends to spin on.”

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

I have other things to bitch about but those will have to wait.

Dear elected officials: Trump is temporary, dishonor is forever.

Too little, too late, ftfnyt. fuck all the way off.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Keep the Immigrants and deport the fascists!

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

The press swings at every pitch, we don’t have to.

The cruelty is the point; the law be damned.

Museums are not America’s attic for its racist shit.

When I decide to be condescending, you won’t have to dream up a fantasy about it.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Post Debate Open Thread: Did I Miss Much?

Post Debate Open Thread: Did I Miss Much?

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Sounds like they pumped an extra dose of Stupid Gas into the auditorium tonight. Or maybe it’s just that Cillizza has gone viral…

Reader Interactions

108Comments

  1. 1.

    Mnemosyne

    Terminally online journalists are convinced that Bernie is universally beloved and only ratfucking could explain the fact that some people just don’t like him. ?

  2. 2.

    James E Powell

    Regarding Cillizza. When I was growing up it never occurred to me that one could make a career out of being one of the biggest assholes in the country. No education, skills, or intelligence required. Just spend all day every day saying stupid things. What a racket.

  3. 3.

    James E Powell

    @Mnemosyne:

    They worship Bernie because he helped destroy Hillary Clinton and give them Trump. In my lifetime, going back to the 60s, there has never been a political person the press/media hated as much as they hate Hillary Clinton.

    Trump in the White House is the greatest thing to happen to them since 9/11. And they believe he’s going to do it again. They believe he can split the party and alienate enough voters to ensure Trump’s re-election. They are, in truth, counting on it.

  4. 4.

    jl

    @Mnemosyne: I don’t think Cillizza is a Sanders fan. I think some powers that be decided it would be a good idea to juice the debate into something like a WWE championship. If you didn’t see the comment in a previous thread, a person had to pay at least $1,750 to get in. Wonder what that did to the type of person in the audience. Warren let loose her first salvo against Bloomberg while I was still watching, that got raucous boos too. Several candidates seem to have cliques there.

    balloon-juice.com/2020/02/25/sweet-mercy-apparently-theres-another-fucking-debate-tonight/#comment-7…

    Edit: finally some theater criticism commentary from Cillizza that I agree with.

  5. 5.

    Eljai

    Well this is something.  Ann Coulter (shudders) tweeted this tonight:

    Sen. Warren has convinced me that Bernie isn’t that worrisome. He’ll never get anything done. SHE’S the freak who will show up with 17 idiotic plans every day and keep everyone up until it gets done.

    Strike out the word “idiotic” and replace it with “awesome” and we’re in agreement.

  6. 6.

    Mary G

    There were no regular American voters in the debate audience. Tickets went to donors who gave the SC Democratic Party a minimum of $1,250, plus each candidate got 25.

  8. 8.

    jl

    @Mary G:  The debates have become corrupt shit shows. Corporate media sees them as clickbate for clips, moderators preen for gotchas. Now state party uses them for fundraising?

    I couldn’t watch the whole lthing.

  9. 9.

    Kent

    Watching the CNN town hall right now with almost all black South Carolina voters.  They polled who they liked the best and who won the debate

    Biden – 6

    Bloomberg – 4

    Pete and Warren about 2-3 each

    No mention of any other candidates.  None of them liked Sanders and really hammered him for being unfair to Bloomberg.   I thought it was Warren who did that.  Was I watching the same debate?  But at least these middle aged and older black voters do not like Sanders.

  10. 10.

    bluehill

    I’m not a big debate historian, but have there been a series of debates in prior presidential elections that hurt the party holding them more than these seem to have done?

  12. 12.

    RaflW

    Are we supposed to be getting full pop-over ads on this web site now? I mean, I can click a X, but it’s still kinda shocking.

    Particularly the assaultive Trump-Pence one just now. Mr. Yuk sticker for sure.

  14. 14.

    Kent

    @bluehill:I’m not a big debate historian, but have there been a series of debates in prior presidential elections that hurt the party holding them more than these seem to have done?

    Exactly four years ago today the GOP debate held on this date was all about measuring Trump’s penis size and who had the small hands.

  15. 15.

    RaflW

    CBS disgraced themselves, as far as I am concerned. I lasted 12 minutes, switched it off, went in the kitchen to dish up dinner, relented and turned it back on. And lasted six more minutes.

    Godawful.

    Oh, and not unrelatedly, Caitlin Conant is political director of CBS News. She previously worked for: Marco Rubio, Joni Ernst, Tim Pawlenty among other notable (ok, maybe Timmy isn’t notable) Republicans. Huh.

  18. 18.

    Enhanced Voting Techniques

    @Eljai: Damn, talk about an open admission from Coulter that modern conservationism is a philosophy of despair.  Some trying to fix a problem in a rational way is a feak in her book.  I suppose if you job is to sit a box all day and talk to yourself then thinking like that would make sense.

  22. 22.

    jl

    @Morzer: “the quality and excessive number of the candidates.”

    Biden was the big hope of the centrist part of the party and big donors. I think he started out with an extremely weak campaign strategy. By the time he entered he should have known that Sanders was going to repeat his 2016 yelling. Progressive policy heavy Warren started her huge run up in the polls just after Biden announced, while everyone else was stagnating.

    But Biden started with a nostalgia tour for the Obama years and ol’ Ronnie and Tip working things out in the lounge after work.

    Hopefully Biden will do better. Or Warren will last to the convention as a compromise.

  27. 27.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @RaflW: Yes, they’re beyond annoying. Also the ones that pop up and then stay put at the top of the screen, completely obscuring the “refresh” option as well as the directional arrows.

    As for the full-screen ads, the most unsettling one I’ve had is trying to sell me something to deworm my cattle. God only knows what algorithmic fuckery came up with that.

  29. 29.

    Morzer

    @jl: If Warren lasts to the convention with an average of substantially less than 20% of voters and a small, at best, number of wins and second places, it’s going to be impossible to put her forward as a credible compromise candidate.

  30. 30.

    Jay

    Nothing Bernie Sanders is offering is better than what @ewarren is offering. It’s all emotion with Bernie supporters. Warren takes everything he’s offering and makes it add up and can explain it to voters on both sides of the aisle. He has a bullhorn. She has a calculator.— Jason Overstreet (@JasonOverstreet) February 24, 2020

  34. 34.

    Jay

    Bernie and I both wanted to rein in Wall Street. We both got our chance—but I’m the one who dug in, fought the banks, and I won.Bernie and I both want to see #MedicareForAll. But Bernie's plan doesn't explain how to get there or how we’ll pay for it. Mine does. #DemDebate— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) February 26, 2020

  37. 37.

    guachi

    CBS poll of “who impressed you” had Sanders winning with 45% followed by Biden (43%), Warren (40%), Buttigieg (38%), Klobuchar (31%), Bloomberg (25%), and Steyer (24%).

    Sanders in front? WASF.

  38. 38.

    Morzer

    @guachi: Eh, Sanders largely got a pass and everyone else played another round of Call of Duty: Circular Firing Squad – it’s a lovely old game which was last seen making Trump the GOP nominee in 2016.

  39. 39.

    Jay

    @guachi:

    Sanders rode the Democratic Party’s embrace of the  ReThug’s Red Scare framing, in a time when End Stage Capitalism is eating the young.

    At this pace, many Democratic Party “alleged members” are actively working to re-elect Dumph.

  40. 40.

    Lyrebird

    @Eljai: shudders

    Ditto ditto.  I read that same tweet and thought, what have we come to, I agree with Coulter?

    I hope it gets some more donations coming in!

  41. 41.

    Jay

    @Morzer:

    Bloomberg doesn’t pay quataloos, that’s how I know your soul is worth less than $2500.

    still, that’s more than the price in town.

  43. 43.

    Morzer

    @Jay:  If I am going to be attacked, I would hope it would be by someone with the wits to manage a halfway decent character assassination, rather than that tired, stale line about being paid by someone’s campaign.

  45. 45.

    Jay

    Elizabeth Warren on one side,” Bloomberg said. “And whoever you want to pick on the Republicans on the right side?”

    The former mayor also argued that bribing Congress was key to pushing one’s agenda and that presidents ought to cozy up with influential figures.

    “Congress is really something you just have to have on your side if you want to accomplish major things, and the ways you get Congress to work for you is the ways you deal with your family: You bribe them,” he told the event attendees. “You say to your kid, you say to your kid to ‘clean your room or you don’t get your allowance.’”

    talkingpointsmemo.com/news/bloomberg-defend-banks-warren-scary-bribery

  52. 52.

    Another Scott

    Reminder of what SP Warren said tonight about Bernie –

    The Democratic Party is a progressive party, and progressive ideas are popular ideas. But getting that agenda enacted is going to be hard.

    I know how to fight, I know how to build a coalition—and I know how to win. #DemDebate pic.twitter.com/VWM1Ukv8r6— Elizabeth Warren (@ewarren) February 26, 2020

    . (1:18 video clip)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  54. 54.

    topclimber

    @Morzer: Hey I followed the Call of Duty and sat through the whole debate.

    If you think Sanders got a pass I must hit you with the ultimate BJ insult…you are wrong. As in WRONG.

    If you think everybody agreeing to talk all the time about how bad Trump is will help us decide which candidate is best, please show how this can be.

    Yes we need unity. We want to avoid kill shots on those who can help us win the general, but surely we can hear what candidates think is right or wrong about their competitors.

  58. 58.

    jl

    @guachi: ” Sanders in front? WASF.”

    I assume it was this talkfest. Margin of error was 3.5 percent. So, not much news, Biden and Sanders are roughly tied as the leaders, with Warren (everyone’s second choice!) and Buttigieg slightly behind at the edge of significant difference from the two frontleaders. The part of the debate I heard was such a mess, maybe it didn’t change anybody’s mind.

    CBS News post-debate instant poll

    cbsnews.com/video/cbsnews-post-democratic-debate-instant-poll-results-2020-02-25/

  60. 60.

    Morzer

    @topclimber: A candidate you can take out in a Democratic debate with a “kill shot” is not a candidate who is going to beat Trump. So, no big loss there. Right now the Democrats are spending  their time convincing Americans that they’d rather squabble with each other than prosecute the case against Trump.  We hear a lot of talk about how various plans aren’t plans or wouldn’t work anyway. We hear very little that inspires or motivates.  That seems like a problem to me.

  61. 61.

    Morzer

    @jl: I am genuinely puzzled by the 24% who went for Steyer after he was utterly forgettable.  Does he have some secret subliminal advertising built into his underwear or something?

  65. 65.

    jl

    @guachi: @Morzer:

    The poll was who impressed you, not who won. The numbers add up to almost 200 percent. I missed that too at first glance.  So, the two putative front runners about tied, only slightly less liked Warren and Buttigieg. Others trailed far behind.

    Keeping that in mind puts the Kobuchar, Bloomberg and Steyer numbers in better perspective. If Bloomberg’s staffers and any clique he paid to come were instructed to boo everyone else, it didn’t do him much good.

  68. 68.

    FlipYrWhig

    This ticket-price thing, which is based on like four iterations of misreading misread misreadings of an already trivial item about a handful of tickets, *NOT ALL OF THEM FOR GOD’S SAKE*, is by far the stupidest thing I have ever seen on leftish Twitter.

    OK, this month.

    OK, this week.

    OK, today.

  69. 69.

    topclimber

    @Morzer: I was talking about bad faith attacks directed at an opponent over multiple occasions. The kind of stuff that embitters and prevents reconciliation.

    Who do you think is watching the debate? Democrats and leaners mostly. They are used to Democrats squabbling.  If they are patient, they hear many of the positive points that emerge from the squabbles, and the personalities of the candidates. I think this is great. Maybe you don’t.

    If we need to convince our own side that Trump must go, then we are in a lot more trouble than even our leading BJ pessimists would suspect. Does that make you Eeyore Prime?

  70. 70.

    Kent

    @Morzer:@jl: I am genuinely puzzled by the 24% who went for Steyer after he was utterly forgettable.  Does he have some secret subliminal advertising built into his underwear or something?

    People are just voting their preferences, not what they actually saw in this debate.  Even if that’s what the question was.  Of course all the Bernie folk are going to say he won an all the Warren folk are going to say she won.

  71. 71.

    jl

    @FlipYrWhig: Thanks for heads up.

    Here’s how tickets were allocated for the South Carolina Democratic debate
    What we know about how tickets were distributed.

    By Li [email protected] Feb 25, 2020, 11:00pm EST

    vox.com/2020/2/25/21153769/south-carolina-democratic-debate-tickets

    But, I notice at the end:

    “The DNC has not responded to a request for comment about how many tickets are doled out to sponsors who pay to attend.”

    Maybe everyone was riled up since last debate before Super Tuesday. This was the last stand for a few of the candidates.

    Edit: to be fair to the lefty grumpers, Vox story says the flap was started by an incorrect local news story, that has since been corrected..

  74. 74.

    Shalimar

    @Jay:

     

    Imandy, BLM and Shawn King grifting.

    I have no idea how raising money for a candidate is “grifting”, but you should at least learn how to spell her name if you’re going to accuse her of something that horrible.

  75. 75.

    Morzer

    @Jay: Do go on, dear child. I believe you were trying to make some kind of threat, but lacked the technical credibility and courage to go through with it.

  76. 76.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kent: Oh fucking hell!

    “Uhhhhhhhj little Marco!  You’re a total loser!  My hands are enormous, and my orange cock is tremendous!”*

    *Not the actual quote, but the Trump trash cheered! instead of yelling out, “This is a political debate, you sacks of shit!  Stop talking about your dicks, and tell us how you’d help the country and its people?”

  78. 78.

    jl

    @mrmoshpotato:  You saying not enough dick insults in these debates?

    I just looked it the numbers. Looks like 10 to 20 million people have been watching these debates, and with ten, a lot of the nonsense will get lost in the mists of time.

    More like 60 to 80 million will be watching the general election debates.

    I think people are getting too worried about how much damage is done in these squabble fests. In a few months, no one will care what Steyer or Klubuchar said. They’ll be irrelevant. They will have lost.

  79. 79.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Morzer: Broskovich, we Americans would say “he turned out to be a master debater.”

    Ok Comrade?  Maybe you’ll get an extra shot of vodka tonight.

  81. 81.

    mrmoshpotato

    @jl: That’s exactly what I’m saying!  Oh wait.

    What were the viewership numbers in 2016 on the “My penis is enormous, little Marco! and my father loved me!” debate?

  87. 87.

    jl

    @mrmoshpotato: I shouldn’t have clicked on this damn blog again…. went to look it up. Not sure which that was, but the GOP messes in 2016 got between 10 and 15 million viewers per mess over the five or six mud wrestling matches..

    I guess dick insults don’t bring in the crowds like I thought they would.

  92. 92.

    lit3bolt

    Your rage thread is meaningless.

    If Sanders is the Dem nom, FL is lost.  So is AZ.

    So now the election rests in the hands of some German-Immigrant grandmothers and racist uncles in PA, WI, and MI.  About 250,000 people in total.

    That’s who the Dem nominee has to appeal to.

    But no, screech at each other, trying to proportionate the blame for the next forty years of fascism appropriately.  That is what is truly important.

  97. 97.

    cokane

    @lit3bolt: I don’t buy this argument. Matchup polling data simply doesn’t support it. Look if you want to make the case that Biden is more electable, there’s some evidence there. But this insistence that Sanders is some special case and will for sure lose certain states, (but that say Warren wouldn’t?) It’s absurd and it’s not based on any real-world evidence.

  100. 100.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @Morzer: Don’t tell Chris Hayes.  He spent 30 minutes on Monday and another 10 on Tuesday insisting Socialism and embracing Fidel Castro is electable politics.

    I imagine this how Pauline Kael defended McGovern in 1972. (photo)

  102. 102.

    E

    @Kent:

    For what it’s worth CBS had their own poll after the debate which candidate impressed you the most and Sanders came out on top with 45 followed by Biden with 43 and Warren with something like 41.

  103. 103.

    E

    @cokane:

    The most recent swing state polls from Michigan Pennsylvania and Wisconsin that came out just two days ago have Sanders winning all of them and doing even better than Biden including winning Michigan by 7.

  104. 104.

    David ??Merry Christmas?? Koch

    @cokane: I wouldn’t say Sanders is a special case.  The problem is more extensive.

    Candidates who have not been vetted on a personal level or on their positions vulnerable to the gop and the corporate media hit machine.  The primary process is so different than the general election.

    I don’t know if there is a special case, but if there is, it could be Biden.  He’s been hit with everything, from busing to his son to his memory to his gaffs and his general election numbers are still good.

    Being vice president for 8 years cements view points.  people who like him, like him; people who don’t, don’t; people who are indifferent, remain the same. In such cases an immune system rises.

    Others haven’t had such a high profile opportunity.  Their images haven’t been cemented in the minds of low and mid information voters.   Information that they’re exposed to for the first time can change their perspective.  In 88 Dukakis led by 17 points in early August and then he got hit hard and collapsed.

  106. 106.

    Chris Johnson

    @Jay: Jesus fucking CHRIST. (re: bloomberg, ‘does he seem like that kinda guy to you’)

    He seems like that kinda guy to ME and I am a graying white guy over 50 o_O

  107. 107.

    WaterGirl

    @RaflW:

    Are we supposed to be getting full pop-over ads on this web site now? I mean, I can click a X, but it’s still kinda shocking.

    You surely won’t see this because the thread is dead, but I will write it anyway because I am ever hopeful.

    The ad guy has been on vacation for nearly a week, and nothing can be done until he returns.  Which was supposed to be sometime on Tuesday.

    Since I imagine this is the ad guy’s first day back at work, I contacted Cole again this morning about the full screen ads.

  108. 108.

    J R in WV

    @SiubhanDuinne:

    …the most unsettling one I’ve had is trying to sell me something to deworm my cattle. God only knows what algorithmic fuckery came up with that.

    What, you don’t want to provide the best medical care to your cattle?   ;-) //

    I agree about ad placement algorithms, sometimes they’re pretty funny. Reasons # 3-7 why I use ad blocker software on my laptop. Some time back I looked up a camera after an On The Road post, and ever since I’ve been getting ads for that specific camera. That makes some sense, tho… The ones for off-the-wall things, like cattle dewormer, or ladies foundation garments, those are weird.

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