Yesterday the President announced that he had ordered the deployment of both of the US Navy’s Mercy class hospital ships. The USNS Mercy (T-AH-19) would deploy up the west coast to be used for patients from the northern Pacific coast and the other, the USNS Comfort (T-AH-20) would make steam for New York.
They’re in “tip top shape,” Trump said Wednesday, and will likely be launched “in the next week or so.”
The USNS Comfort is not going anywhere any time soon.
Breaking: The Comfort hospital ship won’t be able to go to NYC for weeks, @ChiefPentSpox says. Ship is in maintenance in Norfolk, Va., and Pentagon is now expediting maintenance
— Roxana Tiron (@rtiron) March 18, 2020
Neither is the USNS Mercy!
The other ship, the USNS Mercy, is also being spruced-up and lacks a medical crew. It was not immediately known where the Mercy would be deployed.
In fact it is unclear if an actual order has been given to deploy them!!!!! (emphasis mine!!!!!)
And in a statement, the Navy indicated they are ready to “provide possible DSCA* support if called upon.”
“Both ships are currently working to complete scheduled maintenance cycles and identify necessary medical staffing to deploy as soon as possible,” the statement said.
There are three national security problems here. The first is the same one that the President has been creating since before he was every elected: HE CANNOT STOP LYING! Even when there’s no reason to lie. All he had to do yesterday was say: “After consulting with the governors of NY and Washington, I’ve asked the Secretary of Defense, the Assistant Secretary of the Navy, and the Chief of Naval Operations to begin the immediate preparations to deploy The Mercy and The Comfort as soon as possible and they will sail for New York and the Pacific Northwest as soon as we can get them underway.”
And this leads to the second national security problem, which is his most senior appointees, the more junior appointees that work for them, and/or the career officials are unable or unwilling to give him the timely, accurate information about what is and is not possible. This is a result of the fact that the President, as well as several of his most senior appointees such as former Assistant to the President for National Security (APNSA) Ambassador Bolton, have gone out of their way to destroy the process that is intended to get this information to the President and the senior leaders throughout the executive branch. A significant part of the self inflicted problems that the President and his administration keep creating for themselves and the rest of us in their botched response to the novel Coronavirus and COVID-19 is because they’ve been actively breaking these processes that took decades to build. Processes that were created to ensure that these kinds of self inflicted errors would not happen!
The third national security problem is the natural result of the first two: NO ONE who isn’t a Fox News, right wing talk radio, and/or conservative social and digital media junkie believes a thing any of these people are telling us. They don’t believe the President, the Vice President, the Surgeon General, Secretary Azar, or Dr. Redfield. Given the North Korean newscast type public statements she’s made over the past couple of days, people are beginning to wonder whether they can believe anything Dr. Birx says. For now, fortunately, Dr. Fauci’s reputation for quiet competence and effective communication of timely, accurate information is place. When no one believes you, you can’t lead effectively in either a big “L” or small “l” capacity. When every statement has to either be hyperbolically ridiculous self congratulation or begin with hyperbolically preposterous obsequious congratulation of the President’s efforts followed by information that contradicts what was said just a few minutes ago, no one is willing to take anything at face value or provide any of these officials with the benefit of the doubt.
Even under the best circumstances the USNS Mercy and USNS Comfort take several weeks to get underway, because it takes several weeks to call up the US Navy Reserve personnel who staff them before they can leave and to provision the ships. Even if the Execute Order (EXORD) and Operational Order (OPORD) were issued yesterday, the first several functional lines would be the call up and the delineated time frame to get under way would be two weeks out. Given that The Mercy and The Comfort are in a maintenance cycle at their home ports, they’re not going anywhere any time soon.
* DSCA stands for Defense Support of Civil Authorities. It is fully explained in Joint Publication 3-28: Defense Support of Civil Authorities. It is defined as:
Defense support of civil authorities (DSCA) is support provided by federal military forces; Department of Defense (DOD) civilians; DOD contract personnel; and DOD component assets, to include National Guard (NG) forces (when the Secretary of Defense [SecDef], in coordination with the governors of the affected states, elects and requests to use and fund those forces in Title 32, United States Code [USC], status), in response to a request for assistance (RFA) from civil authorities for domestic emergencies, cyberspace incident response, law enforcement support, and other domestic activities or from qualifying entities for special events. DSCA includes support to prepare, prevent, protect, respond, and recover from domestic incidents. DSCA is provided in response to requests from civil authorities and upon approval from appropriate authorities. DSCA is conducted only in the US homeland.
Homeland security (HS), homeland defense (HD), and DSCA are distinct operations.
Open thread!
Ian R
Also, since they’re staffed by reservists, those doctors and nurses are already working right now as doctors and nurses. Putting them all on a ship potentially adds more physical hospital equipment (which is needed) to their deployment area, but is otherwise neutral or net-negative in terms of available personnel.
Major Major Major Major
To what extent could the Corps of Engineers assist us, do you know?
hueyplong
It’s getting to the point at which he’d lie if the truth served him just as well.
BobS
@Ian R:
Yeah, I didn’t understand the confidence placed in that reserve of medical personnel- they aren’t mechanics in their day jobs, they’re doctors, nurses, RT’s, etc. We’d just be robbing Peter to pay Paul.
Also, at the press conference- Trump is back to being the petulant shithead that defines his character.
Fair Economist
Everything is a lie with Trump. Everything. Just disgusting.
The Moar You Know
3 months instead of six. Goddamn. It’s one thing to read about failed states and visit them; another entirely to be living in one.
The Dangerman
Pffffft. Hospital ships not ready? No problem. Trump will tell us the space force will invent time travel and save us all.
I figure, they fast track a vaccine/cure, Trump heartily endorses it, all his sick sycophants rush to take it, and their dicks (those that have them) fall off. Of course, they will still vote for him in November.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I do know. And if you pay me, I will tell you.//
We have US Army Corps of Engineers (USACE) districts throughout the US. Each of these routinely engaged with civilian authorities on a variety of issues. From wetlands mitigation for construction to port maintenance to other issues. USACE elements could be mobilized, especially the National Guard units, under DSCA, and utilized refurbishing existing structures or building new ones to be used to be used for medical facilities.
Chief Oshkosh
What date was it that Trump said that a million kits would be available “next week”? I genuinely would like to know. I think it was three weeks ago.
Adam L Silverman
@hueyplong: He appears to have passed that point sometime in the early 1980s.
The Moar You Know
@Major Major Major Major: They build. And they won’t build to Chinese standards, we aren’t getting a new hospital a week. I know this country has to have some goddamn battlefield medical tents available. Get that shit deployed.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
If Trump were to announce the time, I’d look at my watch. I wouldn’t trust him to even tell time correctly and without lying as this point
hells littlest angel
But the important thing is that the announcement temporarily raised the DJIA by half a point.
Adam L Silverman
@Chief Oshkosh: VP Pence first said that about three weeks ago now.
BobS
@The Dangerman: Not that we shouldn’t be having a Manhattan Project type effort, but I’m skeptical about vaccine development. So far as I know, the only vaccine available for a coronavirus is bovine.
Dorothy A. Winsor
I don’t watch the Trump nonsense briefing, but someone on twitter says Fauci isn’t there “again.”
VOR
@The Dangerman: Daniel Dale reports on Twitter that Trump claimed Carnival Cruise lines will make cruise ships available in ports. No idea what purpose they would serve, other than as floating petri dishes. Cruise ship is NOT a substitute for a hospital ship.
BobS
@Dorothy A. Winsor: He was stealing the limelight.
Adam L Silverman
@The Moar You Know: What they can do is retrofit existing unused spaces – we’ve got a lot of empty strip mall and shopping mall space all around the country – into space appropriate for non-ICU, non-COVID-19 infected patients. This would free up a lot of space in existing hospitals by moving the non-COVID-19 patients out. We also have a lot of now closed or largely empty rural hospitals in the Republican run states that refused the ACA Medicaid expansion. If we could get those back up, running, and staffed, we’d have a lot more resiliency in what is largely a non-resilient system.
Adam L Silverman
@BobS: I’m not allowed to donate blood because I lived in Scotland, which didn’t have any of the mad cow outbreak issues, between 1992 and 1995 because I might have mad cow disease. So: MOOOOO!
James E Powell
If the news creatures had any interest in serving the public, they’d follow every Trump press conference with this.
BobS
@VOR: “No idea what purpose they would serve…”
Burials at sea?
hueyplong
@Adam L Silverman: True. It’s really impactful to see it on a daily basis, though. There are spring insects that plan more long term than Trump does.
When he gets to the 30 day mark without a worshipful rally, he’ll probably crack. Can’t imagine it will be considered a negative event for the rest of us.
Adam L Silverman
@Dorothy A. Winsor: He wasn’t. The female reporter from OANN, however, all but stripped naked and dry humped the President with her question though.
Roger Moore
@hueyplong:
It’s long, long past that point. It’s clear that Trump not only doesn’t know or care what the truth is, he doesn’t know or care what truth is. He sincerely believes that he can make something so just by asserting it strongly enough, and his lackeys have destroyed the system designed to provide him with accurate information to help preserve that belief.
PenAndKey
@BobS: There have already been reports of first attempt human trials for SARS-CoV-2 vaccines which, while months away from being a confirmed working vaccine without high side effects, is definitely progress. I can’t even begin to tell you the amount of red tape that was cut to make that a reality, but researchers and blitzing right now and, as far as I can tell, regulators are looking the other way to give them free reign to do so.
Kent
There are public schools in every town and city in the country that are sitting empty and likely to remain empty until next fall. They have plumbing, electricity, robust internet, HVAC systems, bathrooms, wide hallways, spacious rooms, adequate parking, and so forth.
Why are we talking about putting up tent hospitals in parking lots that will require rows of porta-potties, electrical generators, etc. Yes, I understand you don’t want to get schools contaminated with viruses and pathogens, but they can be cleaned out. The virus doesn’t have a dormant spore stage like anthrax.
The Moar You Know
@BobS: We have been trying to create a cure/vaccine for the common cold for over a hundred years. We still don’t have one.
The common cold is a coronavirus.
Interested parties can do the math on that one.
BobS
@Adam L Silverman: Still up-and-running rural hospitals with plenty of empty bed space will find themselves filling up pretty quickly once hospitals like mine (where those rural hospitals send their most critical sick and injured) have no room at the inn.
Some of them may find themselves getting a crash-course in critical care medicine and nursing. It might also be useful to reverse that transfer process, i.e. critical care hospitals send their less critical patients to rural hospitals with empty bed space.
Betty Cracker
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Yeah, that worries me. I’m hoping he’s social distancing and working away behind the scenes because we need him on the job. I don’t trust any of the bozos who show up to kiss Trump’s ass.
General question for the group: do y’all think Trump will be held accountable in any way for fucking this up so badly? I’ve resigned myself to the fact that he won’t ever get what he deserves.
What I’m asking is, will Trump’s bungling ever be widely acknowledged as a world-historical epic fuck-up, as W’s Mesopotamian misadventure is?
different-church-lady
Gee, it’s almost as if putting a shameless bullshitter in charge of the country wasn’t such a hot idea after all.
Brachiator
Damn. I know Trump can’t help but be Trump. But I am still amazed at the depths of his shameless bullshitting.
Thanks, Adam, for providing a better context to Trump’s utterances.
Roger Moore
@The Moar You Know:
I think these days it’s done with shipping containers rather than tents, but yeah, we should be deploying all the medical equipment the military has socked away.
germy
L85NJGT
@Ian R:
Same for calling up NG and reserve medical units.
Kent
Do not be deceived. This is a PR stunt by the cruise lines who are lining up for a hand-out from US taxpayers. Remember, these same cruise lines REFUSE to flag their vessels as US vessels and instead flag them in Panama, Liberia, Bahamas, etc. so they can use cheap foreign labor and avoid all US regulations.
THERE SHOULD NOT BE ONE FUCKING DIME going to any cruise line that is not using US-flagged vessels. Let them go to Panama or Liberia for their bail-outs. There are, in fact, US-flagged cruise ships but they are the smaller expedition ones that cruise Alaska, the Columbia River, etc.
You want to claim your ships are Panamanian to avoid US laws? Fine, they are Panamanian. Go talk to the Panamanians for your bail-outs.
germy
CaseyL
I’m just gobsmacked the GOP hasn’t decided to pressure T to resign, and take their chances with Pence.
Unless they’ve really got the November election apparatus hardwired for them, standing by T is going to get them swept away everywhere but the very deepest reddest states.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as the kids say, wait… what?
alas, probably not in his lifetime. As with just about everything regarding trump, regarding Republicans and the politics of the last decade-plus, the problem is getting people to care. How many people know/care that McConnell sent the Senate into recess last weekend so he could do what was essentially a photo-op with Bret Kavanaugh
germy
Roger Moore
@Betty Cracker:
Yes. When people compare our death rate to that of countries like China and Korea, it will be obvious that it was mostly Trump’s inaction that caused it. We can ensure it by having a timely Congressional investigation into the problems leading up to the pandemic. We need to turn over all the rocks and see what horrors are lurking beneath.
Barbara
Whoa — OT — but WAPO is reporting that Tulsi Gabbard dropped out of the presidential race and endorsed Biden. This makes me think end times might be close at hand. Anyway, trying to keep myself sane is making me avoid a lot of news right now (getting lots and lots of it just through work). I do not recall a point in my life when I have felt so much anger pretty much around the clock.
terry chay
There are a lot of posts about this in the abstract and what Congress will do or won’t do about COVID-19.
But lost in the threads below are individual lurkers and commenters who are asking for REAL help on what is available to them and what they can do.
This doesn’t affect me or many of the front payers who have stable jobs and are not living in the edge, but a lot of others here aren’t.
I can’t give advice but can a front pager start a bleg post where people can share their suggestions and tips on what do to survive the economic impact of COVID-19?
There are a lot of comments you can pull on of individuals asking for advice and help. They need a place to share it.
Thanks!
Roger Moore
@germy:
Obviously the Democratic Establishment finally got to her.
A Ghost to Most
@Adam L Silverman: DOD has the Joint Medical Asset Repository (JMAR), which tracks all DOD medical assets and supplies. Has DOD opened their supplies, and access to this data yet?
scav
@Adam L Silverman: MOOOOO back! I’ve not only got mad cow (France in my case) but I’ve got Aids as well. Prior to that, they once turned me down for anemia. My blood has repellent super-powers.
Ian R
@The Moar You Know: The common cold is a few hundred related coronaviruses.
BobS
@Barbara: I hope so- there’s been an empty spot on the wall where I used to have that picture of her on the surfboard.
different-church-lady
@germy: “Et tu, Tulsi?”
Roger Moore
@Kent:
So much this. The same thing for all the other companies that have done corporate inversions for tax reasons. If you want support from the American government in bad times, you have to support the American government with taxes in good times.
Mike G
Millions saw the initial news story that Orange Foolius decreed the hospital ships were on the way. Trump gets his PR brownie points, and that’s all he cares about.
Only a handful will see the boring details of why the ships aren’t coming, and the corporate media won’t touch it because it’s not glamorous. If they do they’ll probably blame it on the useless “government” instead of Trump.
Apart from his fecklessness, Trump loves pulling these sudden decrees because it’s an ego boost to make the little people scramble on his random whims.
J R in WV
I spent my last year in the US Navy on board a ship undergoing a total refit — don’t know the technical term, but she was pretty run down at the beginning, and served at least 12-14 years after that refit in the Med supporting Fast Attack subs.
During the overhaul that ship was a wreck, couldn’t have gone underway without a set of tugs to tow it away. The boilers were torn apart and rebuilt. The cargo handling cranes were dismantled and rebuilt. The 5″55 turrets were removed and magazines repurposed. I know these Hospital ships aren’t being dismantled to that extent, but I don’t see how they can speed up a refit, especially if the shipyard workers and crew are at risk of coming down with SARS-covid-19. Whatever they’re calling it today.
Trump is a damned fool spouting nonsense. We are so screwed. Without the trump-plague we’re screwed, he’s demolishing a governmental structure built over decades of good governance, and Biden and his staff are supposed to rebuild the government structure while at the same time attempting to combat the trump-plague? Good luck with that.
It’s as if during the middle of WW II FDR lost an election and was replaced by a Republican dumbass who knew nothing about managing anything. Manhattan Project? That sounds pinko leftwing, cancel that tomorrow~!!
We had a nice sandwich for lunch, I’m gonna take a nap in a little while.
Patricia Kayden
BobS
@germy: Debriefings are standard in disasters, mass casuality incidents, etc. We need a huge national one to shine a spotlight on how this was fucked up from the start
Kelly
@Kent:You want to claim your ships are Panamanian to avoid US laws? Fine, they are Panamanian. Go talk to the Panamanians for your bail-outs.
Ryan
On the other hand, the concept is solid! Put 1000 people experiencing flu-like symptoms, plus medical and support personnel, in a confined space on the water.
Roger Moore
@CaseyL:
They’re too afraid he’ll sick his flying monkeys on them. One of the things everyone should have learned in 2016 is that the GOP establishment is incredibly weak. If they were strong enough to get together to force Trump out, they would have managed to coalesce behind an establishment candidate in 2016 rather than let Trump win the fractured field.
Frankensteinbeck
@The Moar You Know:
No. I’m sorry, but this is absolutely wrong. Our inability to cure the cold has nothing to do with it being a corona virus. We can’t cure the cold because it’s not one disease, it’s a catch-all name for a host of nebulously identified viruses. We can cure any one of them if it were worth it. There is no reason to think Trump Virus can’t have a vaccine.
John Revolta
Hyperbolic preposterous obsequious congratulation
That’s all that we’re getting from this damn administration
If they do it long enough they’re gonna wreck our nation
Hyperbolic preposterous obsequious congratulation
BobS
@Ryan: Its not, unless you want to insure all the providers become infected- I doubt you’re going to retrofit HVAC on a cruise ship.
Fair Economist
Suddenly pouring rain here in Orange County CA, which is pretty rare. The rain and wind go one way but the gutter drains the other, which creates an interesting swirl as the water runs off the road into the gutters.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
while the President of the United States whines that the pandemic was caused by the New York Times being mean to him, the Canadian government attempts to speak to the better angels of our nature
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yes. Canada knew us back before we went senile.
Roger Moore
@J R in WV:
COVID-19 is the name of the disease, and SARS-CoV-2 is the name of the virus that causes it. It’s like HIV being the virus that causes AIDS.
Yutsano
@A Ghost to Most: Per a friend of mine who is a medic in the Army, it’s not that simple. He is only allowed to treat someone who is in the DoD. Anyone else will get him in extreme legal trouble. Now if that requirement can be waived, there are at least three military hospitals in the Seattle area that can be used to help alleviate some pressure.
BR
@Roger Moore:
She’s going to un-endorse Biden at a time to create maximum noise, maybe during the convention or in October sometime.
NotMax
Whaddaya mean? Both ships are already in the harbors. It’s just they have their stealth invisibility mode turned on for reasons of national security.
//
The Dangerman
@Roger Moore:
COMMUNIST!!! /s
I am right there with you. And I sure as shit don’t want to bail out cruise lines because cruise lines basically just went to the way of blacksmiths.
Gone. Poof. There is no recovery.
JeanneT
@The Moar You Know: Many of the viruses causing the common cold are corona viruses – but there are about 200 different viruses that also cause what we call a cold, which is why there isn’t a vaccine for it.
The Moar You Know
@Barbara: After taking all that GOP money. Well.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Kelly
Means testing bailouts to the people based on taxable income seems popular amongst the Very Serious People. Perhaps means testing bailouts corporations based on say average US taxable income over the last 10 years would the Very Serious thing to do.
Yutsano
@The Moar You Know: Something something take their money screw their women vote against something something…
The Pale Scot
@VOR: When I heard that my first thought was “Prison Barge”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@different-church-lady:
And now they’re worried they’re going to have to have us move in so they can be our caretakers
Geminid
I was tuning around on nighttime AM radio two nights ago and hit Dr. Fauci been interviewed by Sean Hannity. I was momentarily dismayed. But then I looked past my disdain for Hannity and understood that Dr. Fauci is a professional with a very urgent and consequential task at hand. And a very good communicator; I hope he makes all those asinine radio shows.
Yutsano
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I for one welcome our new Canadian overlords.
Brachiator
@CaseyL:
What pressure could they possibly apply?
And with the recent primaries, Trump has officially won enough delegates to formally make him the the official GOP candidate.
Also, Pence is a colorless drone. You would get a massive negative reaction from the GOP base if Trump got dumped.
Kent
She’s just being re-deployed. Nothing to see here.
Think about it. If you are going to have a Russian-asset babbling on FOX about Biden, will it carry more weight if it is a Biden-ENDORSING asset criticizing him, or a Biden-opposed asset endorsing him? They don’t want to hear from tea-party crazies going after Biden. Because that’s normal. But they will eat that shit up if it is a Biden-endorsing politician going on FOX to tell us what is wrong with Biden.
PenAndKey
I’ll second this. SARS-CoV-2 is an enveloped positive-sense single-stranded RNA virus. Unlike the flu, it has a single genetic structure that doesn’t shuffle constantly. And unlike HIV, it doesn’t mutate so fast that a single patient is effectively transmitting a new strain every time they infect someone.
And because it’s a coronavirus, there are over a dozen vaccines that were already in development before this hit. Now that it’s a global focus it’s a matter of when, not if, a vaccine is developed. And honestly? I don’t think it will take long. There’s too much effort going into it. Just look at Ebola as an example of how fast vaccines can be developed when you’re not relying on “is this profitable to do?” as a performance limiter.
Roger Moore
@The Dangerman:
I don’t believe that. There are reasons people really like cruises, and those reasons will continue to exist after COVID-19 is gone. They may lose some business from people who don’t want to be in a floating incubator, but they will be back when this is over. They may well be back under new ownership because the old owners went bankrupt, but they’ll be back.
More broadly, though, that bankruptcy problem points to a big thing our corporate overlords need to think about. A lot of the companies that are at risk of going bankrupt are basically solid operations with an established customer base and a reason for existing. The reason they’re going bankrupt is that they have no reserves to tide themselves over for even a short disruption in business. Big corporations are no longer lean; they’re anorexic. Or maybe they’re bulimic: they bring in plenty but vomit it up in dividends and stock buybacks rather that using it to build a healthy corporate body.
terry chay
@The Moar You Know: Not true! The common cold is a large set of viruses and bacteria that cause the symptoms known as the common cold. The most common of those viruses is the rhinovirus, not the Coronavirus. There is no known vaccine for the rhinovirus as it is too small for our antibodies to reach its binding sites.
We can be pessimistic that a SARS-CoV-2 vaccine will be available in under a year, but not that there won’t be one available at all.
donnah
Betty, I have a feeling that this coronavirus crisis will not affect Trump at all. With both sides calling for “It’s not the time to be pointing fingers” they expect the fervor to hold Trump accountable will die down. Republicans are still downplaying the seriousness of the pandemic and in polls, Trump has 85%+ approval with Republicans.
He can stand right in front of this country and say anything that wiggles around in his head and they will believe him, agree with him, and vote for him.
Duane
” HE WON’T STOP LYING!” I turn on the noon news and there’s the fat imbecile blaming the media, China, anything but himself. Saying if he’d only known he’d have taken care of it, yet he says, “ I TAKE NO RESPONSIBILITY AT ALL.” Absolutely delusional. 25th amendment his ass now before he gets us all killed.
Kent
Look who’s getting fluffed and floated as a possible VP pick. Remember, you heard it here from me weeks ago: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/03/18/biden-wants-woman-his-running-mate-val-demings-could-be-one/
Frank McCormick
@hueyplong: I think he has been at that point for most of his adult life (if not longer).
Litlebritdifrnt
We really are living in a Reality Show. Melania just put out a PSA about the virus and I swear it looks for all the world like she is auditioning for a porn film. The hair draped on one shoulder, the glossed lips, the kittenish looks toward the camera, it was to be honest mind boggling.
NotMax
@Roger Moore
Anyone pointed out that Koch industries raking it in from sales of paper towels and toilet paper?
JMG
@donnah: What Democrats are saying “now’s not the time to point fingers”? Sure, some cable news pundits are, but they’re not Democrats. Or journalists, either They’re paid entertainers just like Trump used to be except their job is to celebrate the status quo for an audience of old white people.
guachi
@Kent: I knew nothing of Val Demmings before I saw her during the impeachment hearings and I was impressed by her biography and I was impressed by what I saw.
A Ghost to Most
@Yutsano:
JMAR isn’t for doctors and nurses. It is (or was) a database showing up-to-date quantities and locations of medical equipment (assets) and medical supplies (consumables) for the entire DOD, worldwide. Critical shortages of medical needs have been addressed this way. It was well used during the 2009 H1N1 pandemic, and was created for times like this. I hope DOD hasn’t been holding out, or worse, shut it down.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NotMax: a few years ago* there was a ‘buy blue’ or some such group that put out a shopping guide, and my god it was hard to do, you pretty much can’t buy TP or PTs that aren’t made by Koch
*now that I think of it, more like fifteen years ago… /sigh/
Roger Moore
@PenAndKey:
It’s not just a question of profitability. There does need to be safety and efficacy testing before a vaccine is deployed, and that inherently takes time. It can take less time if it’s an emergency and the regulatory authorities are willing to relax the rules to get the vaccine out sooner.
Elizabelle
LA Times: Trump touts unproven coronavirus remedies
Because of course he did. The fucker. And the LA Times has no more f*cks left to give. Witness their reporting — what Trump said — next sentences: why it’s false. Learn up, FTF NY Times.
That is a Trump classic, is it not? Substitute “reality” for “the media” and you have it.
They don’t know what they’re doing, and Trump just lies and lies. This pandemic absolutely would not be that severe and dismal with a Democrat in charge, or even a non-crazy Republican, like Mitt Romney.
Whose NSC response office might have checked in on the Navy comfort ships IN DECEMBER and sped things along.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@JMG: thank you, I was just gonna point that out. Dana Bash declared that Monday or Tuesday was the day trump became President. Today on Pod Save the World I heard Chris Murphy say he sees it as his duty to call out trump’s lies and incompetence.
Ruckus
@hueyplong:
It’s well past the point of he lies when the truth serves him. He lies as long as he’s breathing, because he’s not trying to find any truth, he’s trying to sound like he thinks a leader sounds. And he has about as much concept of the truth and or leadership as most of us have about the minutia of nuclear medicine. And I’m reasonably smart and all I know about nuclear medicine is that I’ve had radioactive material injected into me and then 45 minutes later had a full body CT.
It’s not that he lies when his lips are moving, he lies as long as he is breathing. The only time the truth is anywhere near him or comes out his mouth is purely by accident and tell me, has that happened in the last 3 yrs?
Shalimar
@hueyplong: It’s a salesman trait to prefer lies to truth when the latter would be more effective. It’s a mark of how great they are at selling if they get someone to believe total bullshit. They’re proud of it.
VOR
This may be lingering effects from the 80s-90s corporate raiders and leveraged buyouts. Companies run lean and mean, with minimal assets like pension plans or reserve funds. They also don’t maintain inventory, everything has moved to Just-in-Time and hence hit hard by any supply disruption.
Ruckus
@hueyplong:
That is gold, pure gold.
Brachiator
@Roger Moore:
Yes, the rules are in place for good reason. It’s not just red tape or useless regulation.
I listened to Trump’s briefing with dismay. There was not much in the first part of it that had much to do with the current crisis. Instead, Trump was a man ignorant of facts and science, but with the power to get even with every real expert in medicine and infectious disease who “kept” people away from drugs they wanted, including snake oil and dangerous and unsafe remedies.
Peale
@BobS: maybe we should research how to become cows.
Ruckus
@Adam L Silverman:
dry humped….
I have several things to say. Not one of them is suitable for this fucking family blog.
Barbara
@donnah: I don’t know what will happen, but “Where are the tests?” is the only thing that needs to be said in response to someone who gets pious about coming together in an emergency. The question speaks for itself. Every other developed nation and more than a few developing nations beset by CV is testing on a wide scale. We aren’t .
ljdramone
@BobS: @BobS:
I know “Manhattan Project” has become a metaphor for all-out effort in a short time, but bear in mind the actual Manhattan Project took three and a half years to produce a nuclear device.
Roosevelt signed off on it in late 1941, and the Trinity test was May 1945.
Date the start to 1939 (when Enrico Fermi got government funds to build the first nuclear reactor in a Columbia University squash court) and it’s more like six years.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ruckus:
Even when you already know they’re liars, the brazenness of the lies about a life and death situation is breathtaking.
Kent
@Elizabelle: Chloroquine is a pretty nasty drug with a lot of side effects. Decades ago when I was in the Peace Corps we were issued it for Malaria and a lot of volunteers, myself included, stopped taking it unless we were in an actual malaria zone because the side effects were so nasty.
mad citizen
@Roger Moore: RE: lies and truth (I always try to read the whole thread before commenting, so I think this is the comment I wished to reply to). Anyway, someone here shared an article the other day about how some of Trump’s early administration people shared that they were treat every day as an episode in a reality TV show. Once you know that, their behaviour makes more sense.
On the “truth”, I hope it is making a comback, but the notion of lying over and over until it becomes true goes back at least to Reagan and his team. It was a major tactic of those bozos. (And now I remember there was a comment about lying over and over–that’s probably the one I wanted to link to, but there are always many similar thoughts here).
Barbara
@The Moar You Know: JFC, we have not been trying to “cure” or create a vaccine for the common cold. Others have corrected your glib characterization of the common cold as the coronavirus, but even though I am beyond angry at Fat Bastard, I still have enough energy to get angry about these kinds of facile, know nothing assertions.
germy
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
It’s all posturing as if appearing in If It’s Tuesday, This Must Be
BelgiumPandemic.Mary G
#WhereIsDrFauci is trending on my Twitter, so I’m assuming he wasn’t there again. The Liar in Chief is probably upset that people prefer his semi straight talk to Pence and Dr. Birx, who’re willing to start with tongue-bathing Dear Leader, so he’s been disappeared. Again.
Kent
@Elizabelle: Chloroquine is a pretty nasty drug with a lot of side effects. Decades ago when I was in the Peace Corps we were issued it for Malaria and a lot of volunteers, myself included, stopped taking it unless we were in an actual malaria zone because the side effects were so nasty.
I made another post on this topic but included too many links in the copy and paste. But bottom line, don’t depend on widespread use of chloroquine for coronavirus. It is nasty stuff.
H.E.Wolf
Re: the Pacific Northwest: there are 2 ships in Tacoma which could perhaps be called upon.
The SS Cape Island and the SS Cape Intrepid (humoungous class) are part of the Ready Reserve Force of the Maritime Administration, which is part of the Dept. of Transportation.
https://southsoundmag.com/what-are-those-ships-on-ruston-ways-waterfront/
They saw some use as supply ships for GWB’s Mesopotamian boondoggle. No reason (other than the incompetence of the current administration, which is a big reason) they couldn’t provide support in a public-health emergency.
That said, probably best to keep relying on hand-washing and social distancing as our primary tools right now.
Sending good wishes and thoughts of solidarity to you all….
Kent
Manhattan project was inventing an entirely new branch of science from ground up.
Creating a vaccine for a virus is old science using established labs and techniques. Not saying it isn’t going to take a while. But it isn’t exactly the same thing.
There was basically one place on the planet with the concentration of scientific talent and equipment to do the Manhattan project. There are dozens if not hundreds of research facilities across the world doing vaccine research right now.
raven
@Ruckus: Hey mon.
germy
@Kent: Is it true it can cause deafness?
Ruckus
@Betty Cracker:
He will if we won’t let him off the hook. As you know it’s up to us to hold him accountable. Presidents have gotten off because a lot of the power they have, they shouldn’t have, because congress has in many ways abdicated it’s duties. So they wouldn’t get blamed. It’s why we have to take back the senate and not only hold the house but increase our numbers.
But it’s our country, all of ours and we are guilty as well, letting others tell us what we can do, what we should do and to shut the hell up.
It’s up to us, the citizens, to hold him responsible. To hold the entire republican party responsible.
Barbara
@Kent: I took chloroquine (brand name Plaquenil) for nearly two years. The biggest issue relates to vision, and needing to obtain quarterly vision tests to ensure it doesn’t hurt your vision. The overall impact probably worsens the longer you have to take the drug.
Subsole
We could have had Hillary doin’ donuts on Vladimir’s lawn and instead we get this shit.
Glad you guys are here. This place legit keeps me sane some days.
NotMax
@raven
Wow, hello dere!
(does virtual handsprings)
Gin & Tonic
@Roger Moore: Maybe they shouldn’t have been buying lattes and avocado toast every day.
Kelly
How about bail out money purchases equity stakes in corporations which becomes employee ownership and boards seats?
L85NJGT
@Kent:
Her bagman showed up and offered the lint in his turned out pockets. Time to find a new deal.
Roger Moore
@VOR:
I think there’s a bit more to it. There are, after all, companies out there like Apple that have massive cash reserves. Those companies understand the value of a big cash reserve for making their business more agile- they can buy critical suppliers, move into new markets, etc.- and have market valuations big enough relative to their cash on hand that there’s no point in trying to raid them. In general, I think ’80s and ’90s style corporate raiding no longer makes sense because stock values are so high compared to back then. In the heyday of corporate raiding, there were literally companies that had more value in liquid assets than the price of their stock, so it was profitable to buy them up, dissolve the company, and sell off the parts. Even asset-rich companies are no longer anywhere close to that position today.
I think the bigger reason is that companies are used to being able to finance through debt rather than equity. Interest rates are low, and they’ve been low since the start of “The Great Moderation”. With low interest rates and an active debt market, it’s really easy to return all your cash to shareholders and finance everything. The problem comes when there’s a financial crisis and the debt market seizes up. Suddenly, companies that are used to putting everything on the figurative corporate credit card find they can’t do it anymore, and they don’t have enough cash to make it through the market turmoil.
Subsole
@hueyplong:
You watch, this guy is gonna swear up and down he was never actually president before this is over.
germy
Kent
@H.E.Wolf: Why are we talking about ships? I spent the better part of a decade working on ships. Unless we are talking about actual hospital ships of which I am not familiar, the average ship has very narrow companionways, very small staterooms with fixed built-in berths. I don’t see how they cold possibly serve as any kind of makeshift medical facility. You can’t possibly get equipment into most of those rooms. You can’t get on both sides of the patient to move them if they are stuck in a tiny wall-mounted berth. I just don’t see it.
If we are to that point, it would be much more sensible to just start using public school buildings. They have wide halls, modern plumbing, robust electrical power (at least newer ones), commercial kitchens, good parking, good internet. etc. etc. Move all the desks and books and supplies out of a public school wing and you almost have an instant hospital space. I don’t think anyone expects schools to reopen before fall anyway.
Gin & Tonic
@raven: Yo. Good to see your nym.
gvg
@Brachiator: Well, they could impeach him and allow him to be arrested and charged. If he was in prison, he might find it a tad hard to run, and then Pence could run…well they would all lose. that’s why they won’t, but I do think they do have some ability to pressure him. Some of it bluff some not.
Kent
We always joked about the vivid dreams you would get. This is what wikipedia says
L85NJGT
@Barbara:
All that idiotic announcement will do is cause panic buying of tonic water.
Subsole
@Roger Moore: Very nice analogy.
Poe Larity
Perhaps we can use all those 737-Max for housing
Boeing Calls For $60B In Coronavirus Aid For Aerospace Manufacturing
Yutsano
@raven: O HAI DER!!!
Chyron HR
@Kent:
I mean, I’m willing to take her word for it?
Bobby Thomson
Fauci can’t be believed either. He just backed Trump’s lies a few days ago.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Wow, Craig Fugate, Obama’s FEMA director, just yanked his microphone off and stormed off the set after Andy Slavitt, Obama’s Director of Medicare and Medicaid Services, challenged his idea that the Federal Gov’t had to get out of the way of the governors. “You just wanna bullshit people!”, I think he said
ETA: and Slavitt looked like he was gonna explode while Fugate was talking, then kept referring to him as “your other guest”, very tense live TV
germy
@Kent:
BobS
Pence, in the middle of a global crisis, announces the administration has met with “Republican and Democrat leaders”.
Asshole.
Raven
Hey y’all, good ya see ya!
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Kent:
We avoid the antimalarial drugs when traveling in malarial areas because they make us so damned miserable that we don’t enjoy the trip. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t.
The side effects are just plain ass awful.
Roger Moore
@BobS:
I think it’s a reflex with them. They say “Democrat” instead of “Democratic” so often that they actually have to think about it to get it right.
Mallard Filmore
@BobS:
That will have to wait for a Democratic President. Trump will block and stonewall everything.
gvg
I assumed Trump was lying about the hospital ships when I heard about it and I was surprised to see others like newspapers and Governors seeming to taking it at face value.
LuciaMia
Read some GOP senator was apparently trying to downplay the virus, saying wed lose only 3.2 % of the population. Someone should remind him that thats more than everyone killed in the Civil War.
Mary G
@raven: So happy to see you! ??♀️??
I hope you, the princess, Bodhi, and Lil Bit are well and you are enjoying your retirement.
Chyron HR
@LuciaMia:
Well, I’m not saying we won’t get our hair mussed.
Kent
I just saw that too and had to rewind to absorb it. Amazing. These are folks who have managed national disasters and are at each others throats.
Gin & Tonic
@L85NJGT: Which could become an actual crisis.
BobS
@germy: It’s actually an Aminoquinoline.
SiubhanDuinne
@raven: You’re back! Great to see you! Fuck LBJ!
Kent
It was Ron Johnson from WI. 3.2% of the population is 10-times more than the total cumulative deaths in every war the US has ever fought in its history.
delk
@raven: hello!
Mallard Filmore
@BobS: Those cruise ships could provide hotel services for the doctors and support people coming on the military hospital ships, when ever they get there.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Kent: I have to say, I was more persuaded by Slavitt than Fugate, though as I remember he was very effective. I don’t think his experience with natural disasters (again, as I recall) gives him the best perspective on this situation
germy
@Kent: It sounded like he said “I don’t have to listen to this bullshit”
Bobby Thomson
@Bobby Thomson: The most charitable explanation is that this was an unsuccessful attempt to stay the public face of efforts to flatten the curve.
https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama/2020/03/17/dr.-fauci-explains-the-delay-in-testing-not-anyones-fault-certainly-not-the-presidents
Gin & Tonic
@LuciaMia: Ron Johnson, (R-of course, WI.)
That’s only 10.6 million people.
Nora
@Kent: He’s from Wisconsin, much to the chagrin of every thinking person in that state.
Roger Moore
@Raven:
Good to see you, too!
ETA: And fuck LBJ!
Gin & Tonic
@SiubhanDuinne: Boy, that second exclamation point is critical.
Yutsano
@LuciaMia: It was worse. It was 3/4% and it was the esteemed Senator from Wisconsin Ron Johnson. I don’t think he’s up again until 2024 but that’s gonna leave a mark.
Kent
The medical professionals that operate military hospital ships are mostly reservists. In other words, they already have day jobs that during a time of war they would be plucked from to go be deployed. Most of them are probably working their day jobs in hospitals right now. The ordinary sailors and other crew that run the ships would be available to operate them. But they likely aren’t going to have trained medical staff. There aren’t huge numbers of trained doctors and nurses just sitting in storage ready to deploy.
WereBear
The death count of American citizens will be higher. I’m thinking so.
Kent
@Nora: fixed. Yes WISCONSIN You guys own him.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Wisconsin, neck-and-neck for dumbest Senator (till Marsha Blackburn came in and blew them both out of the water) with John Cornyn, who said this is all because the Chinese eat snakes. Several people on twitter helpfully reminded him of the Great Sweetwater (TX) Rattlesnake Round-Up, which includes a cook-off, and which took place just last weekend.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Fair Economist: We had a pretty intense cell move over Glendale a few minutes ago. Looks like the snow level is down near 3,000 feet, pretty low for the daytime.
Bobby Thomson
@germy: Cipro is bad shit. Don’t ever take it. It causes irreversible damage to your body.
When I was overseas, the knock on cloroquine was that strains of malaria had become resistant; hence, mefloquine. Fortunately, my side effects were limited to vivid dreams and did not include massive paranoia, psychotic breaks, and suicidal ideation.
L85NJGT
Those hospital ships are wasteful dinosaurs anyway. Dependent on the fantasy that WWII style amphibious operation are even possible in the modern age.
Modern warfare – casualties are airlifted out of theatre. You’ll see that – moving patients to regions and facilities that aren’t as hard hit, have additional capacity, or not on the same point of the outbreak curve.
Mary G
@Barbara: @Kent: I’ve taken hydroxychloroquine continuously since 1985 for RA with no side effects whatsoever. I see an ophthalmologist once a year and look at a piece of graph paper with a black dot in the middle every month to make sure I see all the lines, as eye damage is the most common side effect. Now YMMV, because I am a lucky duck who has been on many more potent drugs and never experienced any adverse effects, but it’s not always dreadful. It used to taste awful no matter how fast I swallowed it, but since the 90s it’s come with a coating.
L85NJGT
@Gin & Tonic:
I hear that.
Roger Moore
@Bobby Thomson:
Yeah, but he should know better. Lots of people have gone down the road of “I have to placate Trump to continue the important stuff I’m doing”. All of them have wound up compromising that important stuff in the name of placating the Toddler-in-Chief.
Bobby Thomson
@WereBear: Oh, this goes way beyond little things like that. In historical context, it will make the Battle of the Somme look like a minor mis-step.
Kent
For real. The wingers are still doing this shit:
Barbara
@Kent: Jesus, Johnson is definitely well ahead in the race to see who is the most objectively stupid member of the U.S. Senate. He also said that helping laid off employees with more unemployment benefits might give them an incentive not to go to work.
Ksmiami
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: McConnell has probably been exposed to the virus and at his age etc I think he’ll probably regret that photo op
Raven
@Mary G: Aw thanks, we’re scared shitless like everyone!
Barbara
@Mary G: I took the same thing for the same reason. It has to be said, however, that the more people who take something the more likely it is that side effects will be seen. So expanding the use of the drug without good reason should definitely be avoided.
Kent
The one positive of this might be cleaning out some of the dead wood in the Senate.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@BobS: As far as I know there still isn’t a viable vaccine for SARS…
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-care/scientists-were-close-coronavirus-vaccine-years-ago-then-money-dried-n1150091
Also: “Early efforts to develop a SARS vaccine in animal trials were plagued by a phenomenon known as “vaccine-induced enhancement,” in which recipients exhibit worse symptoms after being injected “
Redshift
@hueyplong:
He’s not a liar, he’s a bullshitter. A BS artist says whatever he thinks will work. He doesn’t care what the truth is and doesn’t bother to learn it, because trying to figure out if the truth would serve is more work than making up BS.
Everyone read Harry Frankfurt’s little book if you haven’t, it’s invaluable.
Barbara
@Kent:
Maybe that’s what Trump meant when he said he would be a war time president, the best ever, more deaths than every other war president combined!
Adam L Silverman
@BobS: Unfortunately.
LuciaMia
@Barbara: Charles Pierce just wrote it.
To Many Republican Politicans, the World Is Divided Into Two Groups
People who write checks and Them. We are Them.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
@Mallard Filmore: Hospital ships have their own crew quarters and mess facilities.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: The governors are not supposed to be doing it. Unless the President issues the orders, the act may have been invoked, but it isn’t self executing. The administration has to place the orders. Meaning the President has to authorize someone in the administration to make the calls and place the orders.
Adam L Silverman
@Barbara: I am finally wrong on one of my predictions. And I have never been more happy to be wrong on one of my predictions!
Adam L Silverman
@A Ghost to Most: My understanding is yes, but I’m not sure how much or what has been sent.
Adam L Silverman
@Ian R: So it’s a Coronavirus conspiracy? Sounds like organized Coronavirus crime…
Adam L Silverman
@BobS: Truth & Reconciliation Committee!
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: It goes beyond that. It is easier for McConnell to do what he wants to do if everyone is focused on whatever the President is doing. McConnell understood what he could get out of the President, which is one of the two reasons he didn’t block his nomination when he had the chance. The other was he didn’t want Cruz becoming the nominee as McConnell hates Cruz. Paul Ryan didn’t understand the dynamic, which is why McConnell has gotten everything he wants and is still pushing for more and Ryan is gone.
John Revolta
@Adam L Silverman: Wait, you’re saying that having 50 states all bidding against each other for supplies all at once isn’t the best possible system? Sounds like a free market paradise!
L85NJGT
@Adam L Silverman:
More like a rural 25 bed acute care hospital with one doc is gonna be hopelessly fubar’d.
Adam L Silverman
@Litlebritdifrnt: How could you tell?
BobS
@Adam L Silverman: Can we have tumbrels and guillotines?
BobS
@L85NJGT: That’s called Wednesday in most big-city hospital ERs.
Ruckus
@Roger Moore:
I think it’s also possible that a lot of his support is because they agree with him. That’s an almost impossible thing to comprehend but I’d bet there is more than just conjecture to that.
Tenar Arha
@Adam L Silverman: Yep, mooo too!
I am not, nor have I ever entirely stopped eating beef, & when I was living in London I definitely had visitors invite me to eat at Simpson’s in the Strand in the late 80’s. They really still won’t take my blood, & I ask once a year at the Arisia blood drive.
Ruckus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Does OAN stand for Our Asshole Network?
Adam L Silverman
@Roger Moore: By the time this is over everything in the US will be owned by Apple and Disney.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: You get the email I sent yesterday?
H.E.Wolf
@Kent: Why are we talking about ships?
Re: the 2 Sealift vessels in Tacoma, I was thinking about movement of materials needed for the pandemic. You’re quite right that unless they were structured to allow for treatment of patients, they couldn’t serve the same function as hospital ships.
(Interesting, if tangential, note from WWI: medical trains, staffed with nurses, were one of the ways wounded soldiers were transported from the Front to field hospitals. There are memoirs from some of those nurses, describing the terrifically cramped conditions and the difficulty of climbing up and down from upper bunks – in long skirts – to treat the injured.)
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Which channel?
Adam L Silverman
@LuciaMia: Ron Johnson of Wisconsin.
Adam L Silverman
@Kent: I think part of it is expertise and experience. FEMA, which Fugate ran, is basically designed to coordinate with one or more states and backstop them – they states are in the driver seat. Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, which Slavitt ran, is designed to do drive from the top (Federal government) down to the states.
H.E.Wolf
@Kent:
I can’t speak for others, but wishing death to people is not something I want to do.
germy
@Adam L Silverman: See comment #156 for a video clip
Adam L Silverman
@Kent:
When this is all over, we’re going to have to start generating a surplus of doctors and nurses, and then cryovac them and keep them in large walk in freezers until we need them.//
Adam L Silverman
@?BillinGlendaleCA: OT: I wasn’t upset with you the other night. I pulled that comment because it read, at least to me, that I was snapping at/directing it at you and that hadn’t been my intention.
Adam L Silverman
@BobS: Sure.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: Got it, thanks!
Adam L Silverman
@germy: Also, perhaps “germy” is not the best nym during a pandemic? Just something to consider…//
John Revolta
@Adam L Silverman: I don’t know but I’ve been told that the AMA works to purposely restrict the number of doctors we produce in this country. If so, perhaps this crisis will finally create the impetus to address this.
Other Suzanne
@terry chay: Thanks for saying this. I am one of those lurkers.
I’ve read Balloon Juice for years, not sure how I got here, but here I am. Been too shy to even post a comment. I stated in the last thread that my UC is running out (early) and there’s no way I’m gonna find work now. Or should I risk it? It’s best to err on the side of caution, but I need to know how my bills are gonna get paid. I’m single, no kids, a ‘eat to live’ kinda person, used to being a hermit, so it’s not all bad.
Should I expect any gov’t assistance, given the gov’t that we have? Not for nothing, but November 2016 (after election) I said “this man is gonna take all our money and kill us all”. My friends didn’t believe me…..
germy
@Adam L Silverman:
Apple May Acquire Disney Due To Coronavirus Stock Crash Says Analyst
germy
@Adam L Silverman: As long as the rest of the commenters and front pagers observe the proper social distancing rules, you’ll all be fine.
Schmendrick
@Kent:
Let me be the second (or later) to second this. And I say that as someone who (1) loves cruising, and (2) owns stock in all three major cruiseline conglomerates. (They are the only stocks I own, and I bought them because I get a significant discount in the total cost of my frequent cruises.) In retrospect it was a bad investment but I would rather see them all bankrupt than see a bailout.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Sorry, had to dig it out. Links ending in .ru tend to be filtered, depending on the device I’m using.
Adam L Silverman
@John Revolta: That’s how abortion originally got restricted/outlawed. The AMA used it to go after other types of physicians like osteophaths, as well as midwifes, by claiming that only someone with the credential from an accredited medical school had the technical expertise to perform them. Religion had nothing to do with it. That came along later.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@LuciaMia: 3.2% would be about 11 to 12 million Americans, that would exceed ALL American war deaths.
Katdip
My wife is a social worker at a VA medical center, they are prepping to accept a flood of either veteran or civilian COVID patients. They’ve cancelled all clinic visits, cancelled elective procedures, cleared out less acute hospital patients, and are holding nursing home admissions, all to clear up beds and resources just in case. They also were 1-2 weeks ahead of the rest of the “best healthcare in the world ” system in screening nursing home patients, restricting visitors, etc. Just one more argument to scale up our successful socialized medicine system, but CAPITALISM, dammit.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: There was a rumor that Apple was going to buy Disney.
The Thin Black Duke
Vietnam got LBJ. For Trick Dick, it was Watergate. The Iranian hostage crisis (with an uncredited assist from Reagan) brought down Carter. It was the Iraq War that nailed GHW Bush. Dubya somehow managed to skate pass 9/11, but he couldn’t avoid Katrina. And Trump is going to get the blame for COV-19 because too many people are going to die.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Adam L Silverman: It’s Ok, we jackals snap at one another on occasion.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@germy: AOL-Time Warner acquisition all over again.
?BillinGlendaleCA
Duplicate Deleted
A Ghost to Most
@Adam L Silverman: Thanks. There is likely a large supply of critically needed items at a DOD facility near where it is needed.
J R in WV
@Kelly:
J R in WV
@Mallard Filmore:
Oh, please! The hospital ships were built for warfare near combat zones, they have accommodations for every person intended to serve on them! Cruise ships are worthless for everything but cruising.
J R in WV
@The Thin Black Duke:
Actually I was drafted during Nixon’s first term, and I would bet that more people were killed curing Nixon’s “management” of the SE Asia war than any other president! Fuck that treasonous bastard~!!~
No offense, raven! Fuck LBJ TOO!!!
frosty
@Raven: Hi Raven, good to see you too! Went thru Austin a week or so ago, passed the LBJ State Park and gave it a Fuck LBJ for you.
Barry
@Chief Oshkosh: “What date was it that Trump said that a million kits would be available “next week”? I genuinely would like to know. I think it was three weeks ago.”
Two words: “Five Year Plan”
Barry
@Adam L Silverman: “This would free up a lot of space in existing hospitals by moving the non-COVID-19 patients out. ”
If we can’t test, then our ability to separate them is poor.
Then we have new hospitals full of infected people.
Barry
@Betty Cracker: “What I’m asking is, will Trump’s bungling ever be widely acknowledged as a world-historical epic fuck-up, as W’s Mesopotamian misadventure is?”
IMHO, by 70% of the USA population.
Covid is in Florida nursing homes, which means that it will spread like wildfire. And that the staff an families are likely infected. Definitely the staff, since they have prolonged close contact.
Other states are proably in the same shape, just not announced.
Testing is still jack and sh*t, which means that we are so far behind in tracking this virus that we might as well be in 1918. Protective gear is running out now. We are a week away from being totally out?
So Covid is going to be rough.
Economically: The jobless claims are spiking way, way, way beyond 2009. We are not in a recession; we are in a depression. Huge sectors of the US economy have been shut down for 1 1/2 month, minimum. Then the knock-on effects start, which means getting things back up to speed will be very hard, and that’s ***if*** the GOP doesn’t block it. I think that they won’t, but it will be diverted and botched.