Coronavirus is running rampant in Florida. The Miami Herald says that residents in 19 long term care facilities have tested positive. All elder care facilities have been closed to visitors since last week, but that was probably too late.
My county confirmed its third case today; the first case was confirmed on Sunday. So far, only about 2800 tests have been done in the state, which has a population of nearly 22 million. According to a CNN graphic during Governor Cuomo’s press conference today, New York has done about 22,000 tests.
The governor of Florida is bleating about the lack of tests now. Drive-through testing was recently set up in South Florida by a nonprofit outfit, but they’re not accepting appointments because they don’t have enough personnel and protective equipment.
South Florida community officials closed their beaches, but other beaches are still crowded with spring breakers — it just depends on what local officials do. The “swamp adventure” airboat tours are still roaring past my house with boatloads of tightly packed tourists.
As the crisis moves beyond the initial hotspots and engulfs the nation in earnest, I suspect we’ll see a wide gap in how state populations are affected that correlates directly with the political representation of state governments.
Florida might be the new Italy in a couple of weeks. Maybe other states will try to stop people from Fox News-viewing states from coming in and swamping their overwhelmed hospitals, but it would be tough to close state borders in a country with a lot of roads. Maybe it’ll get bad enough for people to try? Honestly, nothing would surprise me.
All of our border states are all also led by Trump-adjacent idiots. So maybe the entire former Confederacy will get its wish at last and experience de facto separation from the Union? That would be the irony of ironies.
*****
I asked in the earlier thread if y’all thought Trump would ever be held accountable for his epic bungling. I hold out no hope that he’ll get what he deserves (i.e., Ceaușescu’d), but will it ever be widely acknowledged that he hideously bungled the coronavirus response, similarly to how W is commonly acknowledged to have fucked up by starting the Iraq War?
I don’t know, but it’s vitally important that Trump, his elected and appointed enablers and the media sycophants who propped him up and misled people with disastrous results are held to account. It’s not just a question of having nice things. It’s life or death, as new reporting by The Times underscores.
Open thread.
COVID-19 & National Security Part II: The USNS Mercy and the USNS Comfort Are Not Afloat, They Are Not Making Steam for New York and the Pacific Northwest
germy
Aziz, light!
So the braindead Foxbots will suffer a disproportionate number of casualties, and take a large number of innocent victims with them.
We should have let the confederate states go in 1860.
JDM
So you’re saying that if I live through this, I can expect to see people like Ellen tweeting about palling around with Donny at some sports event?
Well, that does make the prospect of potential early death somewhat easier to accept.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Amir Khalid
@germy:
Description courtesy of the Department of Redundancy Department.
Yutsano
You’re far enough into the swamp that you should be okay. I gotta check on my peeps in Tampa and Miami now.
Feathers
My fear is that the unequal toll of the virus will be used as proof that the virus was a liberal/commie China conspiracy to undermine rightful Republican rule.
Roger Moore
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“Close-up” my ass. Look at the size of that text. It’s obvious Trump needs glasses but is too vain to wear them.
germy
@Amir Khalid: It’s American Cop Talk. That’s how they get specific when describing “perps” (perpetrators)
anarchoRex
Hmm, I wonder how many of these infections were transmitted at polling places.
Scout211
Well, since I just heard from my sister that my BIL was hospitalized overnight and now is in the ICU at Florida Hospital with a lung infection, this thread is relevant to this jackal.
Chyron HR
Well, the Bernie gang is currently praising Trump as the greatest living president, so my guess would be “no”.
Gravie
My 77-year-old stepmom lives in Brandon — at home, not in assisted living, thank God — and I worry about her situation. She has late-stage kidney disease, must visit doctors frequently, and is currently in the throes of a remodeling project (workmen coming to her home, etc.) These are the people put at risk by feckless public policy and wrong-headed behavior by people who don’t consider the virus a risk to their own health, and who apparently couldn’t care less about others.
WereBear
Something even worse, right on our doorstep. Like having a child with an awful person: you are chained for life.
No, what we need to do is completely defeat the confederacy: burn it down and sow the field with salt.
feebog
When this is all done I think we are going to see the difference between Democratic and Republican governance. Rachel Maddow reported last night there are still 7 states that have taken almost no preventative measures at all. All red states, Texas, Tennessee, Missouri, Oklahoma are the 4 I remember. We are going to see the numbers ramp up in those states while California and Washington are flattening out. If anyone follows Nate Silver, he tweeted today that the numbers from Washington state and King County (Seattle metro area) are not increasing despite increased testing. Hopeful sign.
laura
Let’s Make Ceaușescu-ing Great Again
Scout211 – best wishes for your BIL.
Reported cases here in California are ratcheting up. It’s very concerning. No serious social distancing at my office. Yesterday it was Pizza in the breakroom everybody, get it while it’s hot. I did not. Cognitive dissonance is staggering.
L85NJGT
Yep.
The US is geographically large, and the choices made in, and by, state and municipal leadership will matter in terms of an unequal spread of outcomes.
WereBear
Mussolini didn’t end well. Just sayin’
Baud
@feebog:
Unlike in 2008 vs. 2009?
zhena gogolia
@feebog:
Oh, that’s good.
Ken
@anarchoRex: None of the ones that are showing up now – incubation period. A jump next week might be attributable to voting.
Soprano2
Well, our governor is mostly AWOL, so that’s how it’s going in Missouri.
Eljai
Trump’s Coronavirus Calendar of Shame.
Eunicecycle
@Scout211: Prayers for your BIL. ?
mmolleur
Yeah, Betty, I think Florida’s in trouble, (Bigly). We’ve got 3.5 residents over 65 plus additional snowbirds still here for the winter. Tampa/Clearwater beach closings weren’t announced until this morning. Can you imagine what the infection rate is going to be with the Trumpistas up in the Villages? I hope their hospitals are doing disaster planning. And here in Citrus, parades and festivals were still being held this past weekend. Just a big soup kettle of virus. Stay safe on your river.
Mary G
This is no way to run a country:
piratedan
@feebog: we shall see, the hospitals I support are down in Pierce county, and we’re still planning for a surge of patients… despite all of the measures taken, there’s still a two week/three week period that we’re wading thru where the massive commuter population could have been in carrier mode and spreading the virus, so while focus on King County is good, it’s also wise to be watching the surrounding counties where the workforce of Seattle commutes to and from daily…
we’re still prepping in anticipation of a “surge” while our numbers have been increasing steadily… hoping its more of abnormally high tide rather than a tsunami…
Scout211
@Eunicecycle:
Thank you very much. He is 70 y.o. with chronic lung problems. It was a very rough night for my sister but ICU is where he needs to be right now.
Scout211
@Mary G:
Most libraries have 3-D printers and most libraries (at least here in California) are closed and hopefully, can be a resource.
anarchoRex
@Ken: Lord I really hope there isn’t a jump. This is all so awful.
lumpkin
No he will not be held accountable. Just like Bush’s popularity soared after he did nothing to prevent 911. The national press is starting to rally around trump just like they did w, which means among other things he will continue to actively fuck things up as long as he is getting good press. I can honestly see trump riding his disastrous efforts to reelection just like Bush did.
Yeah, I’m a pessimist but I’m rarely disappointed.
Kent
We think of the US as one country, but it’s really not. The countries of Europe are really more densely inter-connected by than many of our US states. Here in the Pacific Northwest we basically have one highway connecting us to CA (I-5) and two highways connecting us to points east (I-90 and I-84). That’s pretty much it. Compare that to the border between Germany and France, Belgium, Netherlands, for example.
I expect we are going to see just as dramatic differences in outcomes between various states and regions in the US as we will between different nations like Italy vs Sweden. We are all in this together to a point. But we are also more in it together at the local level than national level.
Barbara
@Scout211: Wishing your BIL and your family the best.
Mary G
@Scout211: Yes, a lot of the replies in that thread mention that libraries and schools have them, plus people that have them at home are volunteering. There’s probably laws and regulations against it, because who knows if they actually work, but something’s better than nothing.
Eljai
@feebog: My family lives in the KC, MO area. As far as I know, the republican governor in MO has not closed anything. He’s just asking people to self distance on their own. My niece, who works for an accounting firm, has been told to work from home. So maybe businesses are taking it upon themselves to do this piecemeal. The MO governor’s tepid response is in direct contrast with the Democratic governor of neighboring Kansas. Gov. Laura Kelly of KS was the first governor in the country to close all schools for the rest of the year.
Kent
@Mary G: How do you actually make a mask with a 3-d printer? Aren’t they built with paper fibers?
LuciaMia
It goes beyond the adjective ‘teflon’ but theres just something about this human train-wreck that no, I dont think he’ll ever be held accountable. Karma might eventually catch up with him but it will be ten years or so too late. And well have to be content with pissing on his grave.
Mary G
?
germy
@Mary G:
Ca. 1918-1919. “Precautions taken in Seattle, Wash., during the Spanish Influenza Epidemic would not permit anyone to ride on the street cars without wearing a mask. 260,000 of these were made by the Seattle Chapter of the Red Cross which consisted of 120 workers, in three days.”
Citizen Alan
@WereBear: I really wish Gen. Sherman had become President. The Confederacy has been a millstone around our national neck since the day Lincoln died thanks to that fucker Andrew Johnson.
Major Major Major Major
Woke up feeling like shit, sweaty and clammy all morning, worsening. Oral temperature 98.8.
Turns out it was 85 degrees in the apartment because New York, and I’d had too much coffee, and was a little dehydrated. Turned on the window fans and drank some water. All good now.
Martin
Shit. I’ve been reporting that the situation in Italy was looking better, that their fatality rates have been coming off the (exponential) trendline. What I couldn’t tell was whether they were coming off enough to achieve what China did.
Italy appears to be preparing for more stringent lockdown measures, suggesting that it’s helping, but not helping enough. Also, there are reports that some areas are so inundated that they aren’t counting fatalities, so that may be contributing to the perceived improvement. I can’t imagine that’s terribly widespread, we’re not talking about a huge number of people relative to normal death rates, but even simple tasks fall victim to being overwhelmed (see: Superdome, water).
I think places like where I am will do okay. We’re effectively in lockdown, but with only 42 confirmed cases and no fatalities in a county of 3.5 million. That suggests relatively little spread, but a LOT of prevention. Guessing Ohio and a bunch of other areas will be in good shape as well. NYC is a different matter. Washington, CA bay area, those not doing much will likely all have to deal with this for an extended period.
I don’t see any evidence for a transition phase here. If we can contain it in certain parts of the country, but not others, how can those places that don’t have community spread go back to business without getting infected by the parts fighting this hard? And how can resources be moved from counties like mine to places like NYC who clearly need the assistance?
Why do I have a feeling states are going to have to set up their own restrictions on interstate travel?
Baud
People will forget about holding Trump accountable as soon as Biden appears in a tan suit.
Major Major Major Major
@Kent: You could 3D print the part that goes on your face and then stick a swatch of cotton or something inside (or outside).
Eljai
@Mary G: Even during a dire global crisis, NYT political reporter can’t keep her ego in check. Clearly her fees fees are what’s important here.
Fleeting Ex-istence
A lot of people are always trying some kind of an angle. I was on my front porch yesterday when a couple in a truck pulled up, lady jabbering about chickens and three dollar steaks, and “the restaurants all have to close!!” It sounded like she wanted to sell me stuff out of her truck, but then she started to get out and I shoo’ed her back into her truck. As if… Ruined my perfect serenity, it did.
But I love that artists and comedians can work from home and share with the world. Josh Rogen’s got a very funny thread about watching “Cats” while toking up, spreading a false rumor that the actors all had CGI buttholes and they had to be erased. Hilarity ensues.
SiubhanDuinne
Not unexpected, but still a blow: the Metropolitan Opera has cancelled all of the remaining 2019-2020 season.
hueyplong
@Mary G: Good lord, the nation’s foremost stenographer bleats about be described as engaging in stenography. She’s just like Trump in that the only thing that ever excites her is perceived criticism of herself.
piratedan
@LuciaMia: considering the effects of the media is taking to “normalize” his behavior. Comes down to who “owns” the media, apparently its rich people who prefer him doing what’s he’s doing tyvm, and the coverage is slanted and biased in many ways, some subtle, some less so that reflect that.
as has been mentioned ad infinitum on this blog, hard to make someone report the truth when their very job depends on them not doing so…
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mary G: for a long time MSNBC had, I believe, a policy of not airing trump live because it was usually bullshit. Now trump is spewing bullshit interspersed with people giving real information, or at least that was true before Fauci apparently got sent to the cornfields.
I at first thought they were in a real bind, but now that I think of it they could have, for example, Katy Tur say “Breaking News”, read off whatever Fauci (or whichever actual expert) said, and then show the clip of Fauci actually speaking a few minutes later. There is really no need to show trump’s ramblings.
And Jen Rubin going after Haberman? /chef’s kiss/
Mary G
@Kent: I don’t know for sure, but probably around HEPA filter vacuum cleaner bags, as one of the commenters posted they are doing in Italy. Here’s a chart from Kevin Drum showing surgical mask most effective at 90% and vacuum cleaner bags second at 86%.
ETA: He’s not a fan of the idea:
Major Major Major Major
With a minimum incubation period of two days, and a testing backlog, zero. But I suspect you knew that.
hueyplong
@Baud: “People will forget about holding Trump accountable as soon as Biden appears in a tan suit.”
[Narrator: Actually, it was always ok for white guys to wear tan suits, and occasional proximity to an AA person never revoked that right.]
sdhays
I think California and New Mexico would beg to differ…
WereBear
@Citizen Alan: They have to be crushed. Better late than never.
Major Major Major Major
@Mary G: Since the disease spreads mostly by droplets and not aerosols, any barrier is likely to help.
lee
I don’t think we should have let the Southern States go in 1860. We should have let Sherman go on much longer.
Texas is finally doing the right thing. All restaurants, bars and gyms are closed. No larger gathering than 10 people.
I did see a great meme today on FB.
Q: How much does it cost to change a Trump voter into a socialist?
A: $100
Edit: Might have jumped the gun. Abbott is having a town hall tonight. Maybe he will announce then.
BruceFromOhio
@Mary G: My money is on Rubin taking Habes down in Round 1.
germy
@hueyplong:
She must live in a constant state of excitement, then.
hueyplong
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I love what Jen Rubin is doing now, but without going too 1942 Soviet about it, if she falls in honorable battle that’s her highest and best use.
Don’t ask how I saw this, but Bloody Bill Kristol now describes himself as a Democrat and talks shit on Trump-loving GOPers in tweets.
Fuckin’ “interesting times.”
germy
@BruceFromOhio: I love when Never Trumper Republicans go to war with Just The Tip Trump Republicans.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OUTFALKNED FORM THE LEFT
Mallard Filmore
Think of this as practice for the time when the chaos of global warming dissolves civilization.
Fleeting Ex-istence
@Mary G: And yet that’s where we are. CDC just approved the use of fucking bandanas as masks. Apparently they may work better than tee shirts.
Martin
@Kent: The mask is mostly a plastic cover for your face. You insert a cut-out part of a conventional fiber mask as a filter (you can get multiple filters per mask, so it stretches your resources). Ideally you would use an antimicrobial/antiviral printing material (yes, they make those).
But I’m seeing all of these drive-through testing facilities with workers wearing surgical masks, not N95s.
geg6
I thank the FSM every day that Tom Wolf is my governor. He is doing his best and I trust him and his team.
catclub
@sdhays: The border states of Florida – which is where chez Cracker is situated.
Roger Moore
@Mary G:
Someone is lashing out because of her guilty conscience.
kindness
I figure Florida will pay attention when the old folks at The Villages start coming down with it. I said that over at LG&M and was told I was a monster for wanting old people to die. I replied that wasn’t what I meant at all, but it didn’t matter at that point. The masses needed their witch to burn and I was handy. When the olds start dying the media will treat it with the seriousness it deserves.
Martin
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I think direct payments is useless. It’s doing something for the sake of looking like you’re doing something.
MattF
Hogan here in MD is (R), but seems quite rational and serious. He’s a RINO, surrounded by (D)s in Annapolis.
pamelabrown53
istraction@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Jim, (and Phillip Rucker,et al). Don’t allow yourself to get sucked into Trump’s racism ploy. This is only a DISTRACTION. Ignore what he calls it, continue calling it it’s appropriate name and focus on all the ways he is making this worse than it had to be.
BTW, did anyone catch the totally propaganistic plant of an OAN “reporter” in today’s Trump Shit Show? She was asking if calling Chinese food, Chinese food, is racist? And more. IMO, this is a sidetracking ploy. Trump wants us to freak out and consume our disgust, anger and analysis on this issue,
P.S. Virtual XO’s to the person who can link to that question and our reality show president’s response!
BruceFromOhio
@Fleeting Ex-istence: Mine are all washed and folded in my sock drawer, ready for deployment!
Seriously, if I had to go somewhere with people, I’d stuff one in my pocket to take along just in case someone starts sneezing.
catclub
I always modified my statements that “Trump is so far much less bad than GWBush – just ask a million dead iraqis.”
with ‘yet’
Kelly
WaPost photographer captured trump’s notes at press conference. Corona sharpied out Chinese sharpied in
https://twitter.com/jabinbotsford/status/1240701140141879298
Baud
There was an article recently comparing the current Dem governor in Kentucky favorably with former GOP governor Matt Bevin with regard to how the current governor is handling the situation.
Mary G
@Fleeting Ex-istence: Kevin’s chart has T-shirts at 51%, scarfs at 49% in the bottom two. Something’s better than nothing, I guess.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I don’t think Joe could pull off the tan suit, anyway. But damn, Barack sure looked good in it.
Gin & Tonic
@Major Major Major Major: It’s only the people who didn’t vote for Bernie who got infected, but I think you knew that.
Martin
@sdhays: Yes, California will very strenuously disagree. And we can take Texas any day of the week.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@pamelabrown53:
NotMax
@Fleeting Ex-istence
And give one that rakish highwayman look to boot.
germy
@Kelly: that’s some LARGE type, too.
MattF
@kindness: Well, would it be better to say when Republicans start dying disproportionately?
Gin & Tonic
@WaterGirl: Some time recently somebody on the intertubes posted a photo of St. Ronnie visiting the Bronx when he was Pres. Damn, that suit wasn’t even “tan”, it was “beige” or “ecru.” B/W photo, so hard to tell exactly, but it sure was light.
germy
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
One of her fellow journalists apparently left her a note.
BruceFromOhio
@Kelly: Yet another verbal tell for pudding brain zombies – insist on calling it that instead of COVID or corona.
lgerard
I learned from donny three chins today that social distancing is a “hot new term” and is becoming more popular.
It’s like one of the Kardashians became president after dropping 50 IQ points
Gin & Tonic
@germy: The type looks large when contrasted with his hands.
catclub
@germy: Joe Klein was the same way. He saved his empassioned writing for when he was insulted. And he could be a good writer.
germy
@Gin & Tonic: Good point. It’s probably a six-point font.
Dan B
@feebog: Here in southeast Seattle it’s eerily quiet. We’re a few bloks east of the 1,500 foot altitude flightpath for SeaTac and under the flightpath for small planes. It’s a cloudless day and there’s one or two planes per hour. I went shopping in Columbia City, a gentrified 10 block long shopping neighborhood. There were four pedestrians. Three of them were mom plus twins. Abraham the butcher was wiping down all the bags with soapy water. Our friends are freaked. I believe the isolation is making the pandemic “feel” real. No jokes today.
A friend who is a retired nurse took a part time job intubating patients at a large research hospital and immediately quit, despite getting a huge pay increase. There were no masks.
My 70 yo ass is feeling calm. But the shuttered businesses are going to be a long term disaster unless there is a huge disaster package for those who are laid off.
germy
@catclub: Someone at LGM called him Joke Line.
Adam L Silverman
@germy: Someone call Devin Nunes, this is his specialty!
Major Major Major Major
A series of JAMA studies found that N95s didn’t make a meaningful difference compared to surgical masks, for preventing the transmission of respiratory infections.
Adam L Silverman
@Scout211: We’ll keep good thoughts.
Adam L Silverman
@feebog: South Carolina is on that list too.
lee
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Lindsey is just all over the place. I don’t think he knows what he is doing any longer.
Adam L Silverman
@Mary G: My money’s on Rubin. She seems like she’d cut a bitch!
Adam L Silverman
@Citizen Alan: I really wish GEN Sherman had been given orders to reduce the Confederacy.
Major Major Major Major
@Martin:
Why’s that?
Kelly
Wish me luck. I’m off to the Post Office to pick up our strawberry plants from Territorial Seed. I hope Territorial is having a good spring. Must be a lot of folks thinking home grown food.
Barbara
@geg6: I worked for a short time with the Secretary of the Pennsylvania Department of Human Services. She’s great.
Kent
Honestly the villages is just the formal version of what much of Florida is in practice. I have elderly relatives living in Sarasota. Their subdivision is not some mandatory over-55 community like the Villages, but it might as well be in practice.
And, remember, Florida is a non-Medicaid expansion state so their rural hospitals have been closing and suffering as has been the case in all of the Confederate south in the greatest hissy-fit in history, just to “own” the Black Kenyan.
Martin
So, seamstresses…
The respirator fabric is standard non-woven polypropylene. You might have some in your fabric pile. It’s also the same material used for fine particulate filters for vacuum cleaners and the like, so if you have some old vacuum cleaner bags or fine air filters, you can cannibalize them.
And if you do have a mask, you can reuse it. UV will kill any virus on it, so if you have a UV light for curing resins or, uh, growing stuff, you can use that. Or you can stick it out in the sun for an hour.
Hospitals all have UV lights, so I’m not sure why they aren’t just sterilizing their used masks instead of switching to other kinds. Surely a used, sterilized mask is better than nothing.
geg6
@Citizen Alan:
Actually, if you read the history, Sherman may not have been much better. When Grant was in office, he and Sherman became estranged over Grant’s actions in the South in regard to protecting the black community and their voting rights. I love War Sherman. Not so much Reconstruction Sherman.
MattF
@Mary G: Oh my word. Rubin has gone up a notch IMO, and she was already up there.
Gin & Tonic
@Adam L Silverman: Replied downstairs.
LongHairedWeirdo
I expect he’ll suffer the same consequences as those who made the Schiavo controversy a club to use to beat people up with, demanding to know “why do liberals want Terri Schiavo to die?”
There will probably be one or a few news stories claiming he did poorly, but alongside “counterpoint” arguments claiming he did *marvelously* well, in spite of the relentlessly negative press. “Deaths could easily have reached the *millions*, but he held it down to mere tens of thousands…”
Remember, political reporters will write stories like “Republicans are ready to talk about global warming, but not with the (dirty, filthy, horrible) liberals who want them to admit they were wrong for saying it was a hoax”; or “Republicans don’t believe in forbearance, the political science notion that the other party can produce good leaders, so it’s normal for them to try to get more Republicans elected”, or even “Mitch McConnell is a strong leader who brought his caucus together, to acquit the obviously criminal President of his obviously criminal acts – what STRONG LEADERSHIP!!!”
I’d like to be wrong, but face it: W made a total mess of not just starting a war in Iraq, but bungling at every step. Then, he says “everyone says we should leave, but I’ll throw in more troops, because we finally, after years, have learned useful tactics, and if I send more troops, it’ll look like I *won*!!!” – and, sure enough, people praised “the surge” and said that it worked – and it did. It got journos to claim W did something right.
NB: I trimmed the quote above, hence the ellipsis.
pamelabrown53
@feebog:
So right and so scary. I live in El Paso and there is basically no state leadership. We’re on our own. While El Paso is a large city it is very spread out and I think only 2 conformed cases. (Of course there is no adequate testing). So, locally, while we’re experiencing restaurant shut-downs, problems keeping grocery stores stocked, etc. there is no state leadership and no signs of help from the fall-out.
Fleeting Ex-istence
@Martin: Just read a bit of Wikipedia on this, but could they be autoclaved?
Major Major Major Major
@Mary G: Haberman’s got to be in the top ten thinnest-skinned people on Twitter.
Adam L Silverman
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Neither Lindsey Graham, nor Mark Meadows are known for their economic, fiscal, and/or financial acumen.
Roger Moore
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
There has to be some kind of clever sexual joke about OANNism when one of their reporters fluffs Trump, but I’m not quite good enough to come up with it.
Gin & Tonic
Dept of State issues a Level 4 Travel Advisory. For everywhere.
mrmoshpotato
@Mary G: Oh Mags…
Adam L Silverman
@Dorothy A. Winsor: As I wrote down below, the only thing she didn’t do is peel off her clothes, run up to the dias, and dry hump him.
Adam L Silverman
@lee: He never actually did.
NotMax
@Adam L. Silverman
That will be in the director’s cut.
sdhays
This is an interesting article about how we could build our public (especially health) infrastructure to be more automatically disinfecting: “Copper Destroys Viruses and Bacteria: Why isn’t it Everywhere?“.
Adam L Silverman
@Gin & Tonic: Saw it.
mrmoshpotato
@Major Major Major Major: Keep frozen fruit juices in stock too. I make them full strength, but then pour a pint of half juice-half water. Keeps the sickly sweetness down and you get all of the nutrients.
JPL
Sorry if this is has already been mentioned link
artem1s
@Citizen Alan:
If nominated I will not run, if elected I will not serve.
Uncle Billy was pretty clear about how he felt about politicians. True fact, Lincoln offered him the Secretary of War. Abe had to settle for Copperhead, Edwin Stanton instead.
Major Major Major Major
@Fleeting Ex-istence: From what I’ve read, the fear is that this would degrade the effectiveness of the materials.
Kattails
After working all day yesterday & feeling increasingly uptight, decided this morning to call HR to ask whether it was feasible for me to take time off as I’m relatively high risk. Was told no problem, apply for unemployment online, they’ve waived the usual week waiting period, your job will be safe. So I then called work wherein the manager told me that she was headed home as soon as a replacement came in from a neighboring store, since she was feeling overheated and congested. Well, at least I don’t feel guilty now. Told them I’d need at least 2-3 weeks, see how this plays out, and that we need to get testing done FFS.
So far I’m ok, have been taking better precautions than the other two I think–more hand washing, went to gloves a few days ago.
Donald Trump and his enablers are some of the worst quasi-humans on the planet right now.
pamelabrown53
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Thank you, thank you, thank you Dorothy. You provided a yeoman’s service! Who can at least entertain the idea that we were allowed to get a glimpse of Trump’s sharpied “Chinese virus” and that horrific OAN question and not think it was a plant and a distraction?
Martin
@Major Major Major Major: Because this will be a sustained effort, with systematic restrictions against spending and economic output. It’s not that consumer confidence is down – it’s that restaurants are closed by law and consumers are stuck at home for an extended period of time.
Pretending that we can shut down half the economy and then effectively gift card our way out of this is absurd. You need to basically shut down the other half of the economy. Pause everyones need to repay finance. We know very well how to bail out the financers and there really aren’t that many of them, so you can organize that. But what’s the point of giving taxpayers $1000 so they can hand it to their bank for their mortgage payment or their landlord for rent (who then just funnels it to the bnak)? The Fed is already giving them 0% loans. Let the bank borrow at 0% to make payroll, let consumers and small businesses stop paying the banks/landlords, etc. and use that money instead for groceries, their payroll, etc.
That will also help those small businesses stay afloat a bit longer. It doesn’t solve all of the problems, but it takes a huge chunk of the problem out of the way. You do that, and almost anyone who still has a job (like me) gets a pretty big stimulus, at least until we turn loan payments back on. I don’t come out any better off long term because my loan term is now x month longer, but so what?
And that allows you to focus assistance to those who need it rather than just raining money from the sky. You can give longer, more sustained assistance and more stability to those who did lose their jobs, etc.
In effect, the economy is right now on hold. So put it on hold. Close the markets. Pause evictions. Pause loans. Put all of our resources into necessities – food, medicine, etc. Give everyone SNAP for now.
Betty Cracker
@sdhays: I was talking about Florida, which shares a border with Georgia and Alabama.
Martin
@Fleeting Ex-istence: Boy, I don’t know. As long as it doesn’t start to melt I don’t see why not. The pressure shouldn’t be a problem.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: This is the nominated replacement. He’s solid.
https://www.defense.gov/Our-Story/Biographies/Biography/Article/2111192/christopher-c-miller/
Suzanne
I am trying to be a person who doesn’t wish death or injury on people, no matter how heinous. But I hope, hope, HOPE that Trump is absolutely terrified and miserable. I hope he can’t sleep. I hope he cries a lot. I hope he feels the same weight on his chest that I do. I hope that this terrorizes him every moment of every day.
gene108
Unless we go to some kind of “Marshall” Law, which bans people from going outside in groups, we won’t get handle on things.
People still do gatherings, kids to still go out and play or hang out together. We need to literally lock people in their homes, and only let one person out at a time to get groceries and prescriptions.
Otherwise this will be with us for a year or two, and schools may not reopen in the fall.
Kent
Hospitals and labs (even HS science labs) have UV light sterilizers that are used for things like googles. I wonder if masks can be sterilized and re-used with UV light or if the porous surfaces would make that ineffective (if viruses are embedded in the fibers and not reached by the UV light).
I’m not sure how paper fibers are going to hold up to autoclaves.
Major Major Major Major
@Martin: I thought the goal of direct payments in this situation was to keep people housed and fed and solvent, rather than stimulate the economy, anyway. Probably easier than restructuring the whole economy; certainly more feasible.
Gravenstone
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: JMFC. Stroke out already you useless waste of protoplasm!
(not you, J,FL)
Fair Economist
@MattF: And note, Haberman is trying to distract – switch the subject from Trump’s monstrous lies endangering the country to whether Rubin is being mean by pointing out the press is not acting to stop him.
gene108
@Martin:
I assume interest will still accrue on any unpaid principle. Banks will make the money later, rather than today.
Mr. Mack
@Martin: Those are good points. My question is, what about people with zero cash on-hand, and no more employment?
sdhays
@Betty Cracker: Sorry, I’m unaware of the lingo down there. I will say that I reread that a few times before posting because I didn’t think you’d make that sort of error. Turns out I was right!
mrmoshpotato
@Fleeting Ex-istence:
Would using my Anthrax (band) bandana be wrong?
Bobby Thomson
All states in the former Confederacy are not led by Trump-adjacent idiots, most notably Virginia, the cradle of the Confederacy. See also NC.
cope
To take advantage of the open aspect of this thread, has anybody else done their census online? I just did it and was amazed at how little information was asked. My recollection of previous census forms was that they included pages and pages of questions about the number of toilets in the house, how many cars we had, if we had cable TV and more. Am I just remembering wrong as I often do these days?
MattF
@Fair Economist: Or, y’know, maybe a journalist could ask Trump to clarify the meaning of what he just said. And… if he’s unable to do that…
Mary G
My housemate tells me Guatemala has suspended passenger flight both in and out of the country. An aunt who had gone down there for a funeral got out at the last second. Another is stuck there for an unknown period of time. I’ve seen mentions on Twitter that more than 11,000 Americans can’t get out of Peru.
NotMax
@cope
In the past there were short forms and a selected percentage of households which received long forms.
Scout211
Just released by the state department: Level 4 travel advisory.
Shorter version: If you want to fly home from abroad people, get on a plane right now or stay where you are for a long time . .
So will my oldest grandchild finally leave England (where she is a grad student) to fly home . . . now?
Betty Cracker
@Martin: Huh. I don’t know squat about economics, but that does sound sensible. On the other hand, we’re not all on someone’s payroll. Gig workers are still screwed under that scenario, no?
patrick II
The Kinsa internet thermometer takes your temperature and sends it to a database. That database has been used to track rising flu epidemics across the country. I saw the thermometer on Rachel last night. Anyhow, they try to see in advance, using the data and a map to visualize areas where temperatures are above the norm. Here is the map: https://healthweather.us/
Notice Florida — and
OhioKentucky. I can’t read maps.CDC has known about this instrument for three years, but the private profit motive vs the government take over of ownership has stopped the country from having this probably very useful tool more widely available.
Bobby Thomson
@cope: in the past there was a long form, which not many people filled out and included the toilets question, and the relatively inconsequential short form. Compared to forms from the pre-WW II era, though, this year’s short form doesn’t ask for much at all.
ETA: the long form supposedly was assigned randomly.
Martin
@Major Major Major Major: But I don’t’ think Treasury can hand out the kind of money needed to do that, and I’m not sure we can pay back that kind of wealth transfer.
I mean, it’s not like any of that stimulus is going to trickle down to food workers – the restaurants are shut down. So we have very limited things we can spend on – food, healthcare, rent, and a bit out of that. We can’t even clothe ourselves – the clothing stores are closed and Amazon isn’t accepting deliveries of non-essentials.
So rather than filter all of that money through consumers which will mostly work its way back to banks, just turn all of that shit off and backstop the banks. Give people money to be fed as needed, of course, but much of the point of these restrictions is to stop people from being consumers – going out to eat, going out to shop. Don’t tempt people with cash to do those things, instead pay or defer their bills on the supply side.
Aleta
There seem to be more journalists working on documenting it, and more articles earlier, than happened for Bush-Cheney. * Republicans are trying a variety of the same stifling — “there’s no time for (blame/discussion/criticizing us leaders) in the middle of a war” that they used before, but a) it’s harder to scream ‘support those fighting on the front lines’ when those doctors and nurses are reporting the administration’s failure. (Talk about plagiarizing past lies : “Nobody could have predicted” vs “Nobody ever thought of numbers like this’’ yesterday from Trump.)
*For example, NYT found and reported on this draft report that’s stamped “Do Not Distribute” on every page: https://int.nyt.com/data/documenthelper/6824-2019-10-key-findings-and-after/05bd797500ea55be0724/optimized/full.pdf#page=1
Goes into lots of detail.
Fair Economist
Georgia is going to be hell, too. Two weeks ago they already had something like dozen unconnected cases from multiple counties in Greater Atlanta. Each one marks a separate outbreak. A state legislator has it and the state is recommending the entire legislature self-quarantine. *One* hospital in Albany already has 20 critical cases. They are just now implementing moderate social distancing (closing bars and restaurants). It’s going to be bad there.
Kent
Yes, no flights out of Guatemala. I’m on a FB group of returned Peace Corps volunteers from Guatemala. The Federal Government chartered a plane to evacuate the Peace Corps volunteers and other US government staff. Everyone else is on their own. People are talking about taking the overland drive through Mexico to get out, which is about 2,000 miles. There are a LOT of US expats living in Guatemala. But probably 100x more in Mexico.
Mary G
@Adam L Silverman: I thanked her on Twitter for pointing out the emperor has no clothes.
Cheryl Rofer
House Committee on Oversight and Reform is asking for documents.
Ruckus
@Eljai:
trump would look at that and only see absolute superiority. In himself. Every word of it would be true for him no matter that it’s all bullshit in any kind of reality there is.
And his supporters are as if not more deluded than he is.
mrmoshpotato
@Adam L Silverman: Just what we need now – Devin Nunes romancing a cow.
Oh wait, better than him being in Congress.
James E Powell
My expectation is that the press/media will ultimately praise him for his great leadership. Dana Bash is an early indicator of their mindset. Never forget that they absolutely love Trump, even the ones that go on cable shows to talk about how evil he is. Trump gives them hot content every day. They don’t even need to do any investigations or research. Just run what Trump says followed by what other people say about what Trump says.
Democrats who refuse to acknowledge Trump’s great leadership in saving America will be denounced as shrill extremists and never invited back on the shows. Meanwhile, Joe Manchin and a few others will agree that, yes, Trump had some problems at the beginning, just like we all did, but he came through when it mattered and he should be praised for that. The NYT will agree.
It’s been this way my whole life: Nixon resigned in disgrace, but was very quickly transformed into an eminence grise and a great statesman with some trivial personal issues. Same with Henry Kissinger, war criminal. Reagan, his lies, his horrible policies, his dementia, all forgotten because he is a saint who saved America from the Commies. George W Bush? Our own Winston Churchill? It’s always this way with Republicans. Collapse the economy? Simple, blame black people and you get back in power two years later arguing that the Democrats should have fixed your mess by now.
There is nothing about the American people, taken as a whole, our political system, or our press/media that could engender optimism about the next election. If I’m wrong and it goes our way, I will apologize and buy a round for who’s ever around.
MomSense
@Major Major Major Major:
Yeah this is not a great time for me to have a cold, seasonal allergies and menopause. I have to remind myself that I have had hot flashes for years – ugh.
Anyone else googling the same symptoms you googled just the day before?
geg6
@Barbara:
Yes, she is. I love her.
Bobby Thomson
@Martin: I have no confidence any of that would happen. I get that the only reason Republicans are interested in sending money out is to pump prime the economy and help Trump, but giving individuals the money to pay their bills is a lot better than giving the money to the banks. How are you going to identify all the landlords of renters? What about mortgages and HELOCs through tiny lenders? For that matter, we don’t have the capacity or the bipartisan will to distribute MREs to all Americans during a forced lockdown, to say nothing of the ability to enforce it.
mrmoshpotato
@Adam L Silverman: Dot matrix burning of the Confederacy?
NotMax
@Kent
Caravans!
Kent
As I understand it, the census does several levels of surveys. The “short form” for basic counts goes to everyone. And then there are longer, much more detailed surveys of all manner of other topics that are distributed to much smaller numbers using ordinary survey sampling techniques.
Cameron
@lgerard: Yes, it’s a hot new term, and Frederick Douglass uses it more and more every day.
Fair Economist
@Martin: Handouts to the population at large are to prevent the tens of millions soon to be out of work from starving/losing ACA insurance/being able to keep their cars running/keeping their houses/buying prescriptions/just basic living in general. This is absolutely essential, and there’s no other way to handle the problem that all these people have no way to earn money for the foreseeable future.
As a side effect, it will substantially prop up what economy we are still able to have, but that’s not the main point.
Ruckus
My neighbor just got back from the hospital, I heard them leave this morning before 5am. He’s not in great health but a lot of things have been looking up and he got some minor outpatient surgery this morning. I had to pick him up out of the car because he’s still weak but in a position to get much better. Yes I wore face protection, for me and him.
Ohio Mom
Cope@143: I have a vague memory of past censuses having long and short versions, and that most people get the short version.
pamelabrown53
@Adam L Silverman:
The ghost of John McCain needs to provide a Dickensian intervention to Lindsey.
feebog
@Dan B:
Yeah, pretty much the same here in the San Fernando Valley. I have spent part of my morning coordinating with my Neighborhood Council members to put together lists of local markets that have senior shopping hours and sit down restaurants that are offering take out. My slightly older ass than yours feels the same pain.
Martin
@Betty Cracker: Yeah, but they’re screwed either way. How many of us can stop taking a paycheck in exchange for a single $1000 check? For most people that won’t even cover their rent this month, let alone next month and however long thereafter.
But you tell that worker they don’t need to pay their rent, and then give $2000/mo to the 20% of people that get laid off, rather than $1000 to everyone, and you have something that is much more sustainable, and much cheaper. We’re already running a $1T deficit. That’s going to be $3T by the time these inefficient measures are done.
Why the fuck are they mailing me and my family checks? We don’t need it. Lots of other places need it – badly. And it’s still going to take them weeks to do this. They can pause loan repayments and rents today. It doesn’t need to get bottlenecked by a government that clearly doesn’t know how to function. Things are not going to be better in 2 weeks. They need to learn how to take actions that get results but also move the problem off of their desks so they can take the next action. They’re overwhelmed and giving themselves more work. None of these people have ever tried to problem solve while being on fire.
Just turn shit off for a while. It’s fine. We can live without it for a little while. Leave the focus on the stuff you can’t turn off.
MattF
Rubin concentrates fire on WH journalists
Major Major Major Major
@Martin: Fair points, but I still think cash is the only feasible thing to do right this second, then we can use the time it buys us to move to a war footing.
ETA: I guess we could focus it on people who’ve just filed for unemployment or something, but then how do we find the contractors?
JPL
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you
NotMax
@Ruckus
Until* this maladministration seriously treats this as a public health crisis rather than a public relations crisis, that ain’t a-gonna change.
*which is to say when pigs darken the skies.
Kent
But of course!
https://www.columbian.com/news/2020/mar/18/clark-county-cannabis-sales-jump-amid-virus-uncertainty/
Pot sales are going through the roof here in Vancouver. Click through to the story to see the lines of people going around the bock yet keeping their social distances.
I’m surprised that the pot evangelists haven’t already started making medical claims related to the coronavirus.
Major Major Major Major
@Kent: Gotta stock up on smokables for while you’re in isolation against highly-infectious viral pneumonia!
geg6
@James E Powell:
In Manchin’s defense, I see a lot him being that a lot of WV is in the Pittsburgh media market. He’s been screaming bloody murder for a while over this and the lethargic (non-) action of the state government and the feds. This was before anyone in WV was diagnosed. He’s been all over it since, too. Saw him on Morning Joe this morning and saying that too many people in his state were taking the idea that WV was the last state to have any cases as some sort of signal that they were superior or were somehow immune. His hair, basically, was on fire. And he has quite the healthy head of hair.
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Yeah. This is a step, it is not the journey.
@Martin
Fine. Then sign it over to a charity which does. Or your state’s general fund, for that matter.
moonbat
Forgive me if this has already been observed, but regarding whether Trump will longterm be held accountable by history question, I’d just like to point out that GWB’s ef-ups were mainly felt by folks in distant lands. It was terrible but an abstraction to most people in this country, particularly those of convenient memories and flexible consciences.
Covid-19 is going to be entirely different. By the time this is over many people HERE are going to know or be aware of someone HERE who died because of it. It will be the first time in living memory for a vast majority of the population that sectors of our system will have failed us (# of hospital beds for instance). In other words its going to leave a mark. A big one.
It is a terrible shame that it is going to take something of THIS magnitude to teach our “leaders” and the media that it’s not all about spin and winning the cycle.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
That should at least get the attention of people around NOLA .
Fair Economist
@Martin:
Because it will take months to figure out who “needs” it and by the time they get it they will already be starving/had to euthanise their starving pets/ran out of medicine/etc. You can’t stop life. On top of that during wild changes like what we are going through any test is going to be wrong about millions of people.
UBI is workable. The government really does have the power to send checks to everybody, and take enough from the wealthy to pay for it eventually. For the duration of the emergency even that’s not necessary – we can just run deficits. Krugman was estimating we’d need about a 3 trillion deficit with unemployment at 20%, and that’s optimistic IMO.
catclub
Good news, everybody! That 0.5% of voters could be the difference in November.
raven
@Martin: When they stop rent collection will we have to pay the mortgage on our rental?
btw superb job on the online thread.
Martin
I would disagree with that. What we have seen is the private sector better able to see these kinds of emergent benefits than the government. The feds would feel compelled to do nothing until that was affordable for everyone, because government serves everyone. So, it takes 20 years before it hits the market in that case, which is worse than getting it out there now on a smaller scale and then in situations like this opening that data to the feds. That last part is easy – in fact, I’ve yet to see a part of government open up their data as easily as private companies because of this problem of ‘but what about…’
And because it’s now on the market and we can see a compelling use case for it, it’s a LOT easier to turn it into a proper infrastructure layer than it would have been before when everyone wonders why we’re doing this Chinese monitoring of every citizen bullshit.
This is only a problem if the private sector doesn’t make the data available to government, and we’ve seen no evidence that happens.
Citizen Alan
@geg6: Probably. However, I was referring to Sherman’s recommendation (I’m pretty sure it was him, anyway) that the victorious North dissolve the borders of the Southern states, reconstitute the whole Confederacy as a territory, and then encourage non-Southerners to move there and not allow them to become states again until pro-Confederacy sentiment had been stamped out.
Uncle Cosmo
So long as you drink twice as much.
Sheesh. This is not rocket science. It isn’t even bottle-rocket science.
Mary G
@Cheryl Rofer:
The administration will ignore it, but that rquest is its own subtweet:
NotMax
@Major Major Major Major
Awaiting an Onionesque story about meth labs demanding a government bailout as the lack of access to bleach as a concocting agent has severely cut into business.
Fair Economist
@Kent:
They were all over Twitter from the start. They’ve become less common lately but still there.
catclub
@moonbat: I agree with your take. katrina repsonse fuckup was more important than a million dead iraqis.
patrick II
@Mary G:
Haberman is using “it’s the presses fault” in the general sense, but the most you hear in a more particular sense is from the right-wing: mostly when the press comes closest to telling the truth, or when they just are not showing the fealty to Trump that is the higher level of truth as they see it.
But that’s not where Rubin is coming from — she’s coming from the White House press is too timid to confront the lies, and therefore not completely telling the truth.
She’s is “criticizing the press” but she is describing a particular failing of a particular group of reports, not calling the whole thing “fake news”. And Haberman knows the difference but thinks you, or the audience she is writing to, will not.
Citizen Alan
@artem1s: Yeah, now that I think about it, I wish Stanton had become President.
sdhays
@geg6: It’s good to be reminded that despite him being annoying at times, Manchin’s actually a fairly competent politician in the best way. He was a good governor (apparently, since he was popular enough to move from the governorship to the Senate in an increasingly Republican state) and he seems to have a reputation as a serious legislator in the Senate (unlike others who just chase cameras…).
Major Major Major Major
@NotMax: Deputize the meth cooks to make antivirals!
(This is a joke but we’re already living in a cyberpunk dystopia so maybe it’s not)
catclub
@Uncle Cosmo: I thought it was the start of a prison hooch recipe.
…useful!
on the real hand, I don’t think there are many vitamins left in frozen concentrate juices.
geg6
@Citizen Alan:
True, he did not have any sympathy for traitors. Sadly, he did have sympathy with racists.
Kelly
I’ve thoroughly washed up after my trip to the Post Office. The Postmaster was having a “this virus thing is being blown out of proportion” conversation with another local. Standing 8 feet back I told them “No this is really bad” The were sure that Italy was having such bad problems because Italy medical capabilities are much less than ours. I argued hard against that to. Rural Oregon is Trump country. Washed everything I touched in the car to. We have a 14 case community spread outbreak 30 miles south of here.
Aleta
I hope Kusher can be fully exposed and somehow held accountable.
This sounds like it could be related to Jared’s internet-researched leadership: Elon Musk on twitter March 16: “Maybe worth considering chloroquine for C19.” Trump today: (ABC) “Trump touts chloroquine, old malaria drug that doctors say may help treat coronavirus”
A Post story came out on Kushner yesterday. (I wonder if Jared’s “goal to bring ‘an entrepreneurial approach’ to the crisis” had anything to do with the late and faulty US testing.)
Jeffro
@catclub:
trumpov was cruising along pretty well for being so stupid and malignant…in addition to beating W’s casualty count, he’s also going to easily beat the $2T estimated cost of Iraq War II.
Wishing all kinds of bad things on His Orangeness, that’s for sure.
Martin
@Major Major Major Major: But we can’t do cash right this second, because again we don’t have the infrastructure in place for it. It really requires postal mail, and the ability to cash the check. If you rely on a check cashing place, they’re mostly shut down where I am. If you’re homeless, you don’t have an address. There’s lots of gaps. It takes a few weeks.
An executive order to pause loan repayments/rents can be done right this second. The feds have almost no role in that implementation. They can and should still do stimulus, but they can shrink the size of it quite a lot, and therefore make the value of the stimulus quite a bit better. $1000 per adult helps, but not enough for someone just laid off. $1000/mo is $6.25/hr. It doesn’t matter if you can’t pay all of your rent or half your rent, you’re evicted either way. It only helps if it covers all of your rent.
NotMax
@Uncle Cosmo
“Mmm, detect a piquant undertone of Aqua Velva.”
Barbara
@moonbat: To be crass, it could be like a 100 or more Katrinas popping up all over the country. Yes, I agree with your analysis. It was Katrina that tanked Congress in 2006, not the man made disaster that Bush unleashed on Iraq and rode all the way to reelection.
MomSense
@Scout211:
Will be sending good thoughts your BIL’s way. Please keep us posted.
Chief Oshkosh
@Aziz, light!:
Don’t be so negative. If you’re going to wish something, wish that Sherman had gone further and that Lincoln and Grant had disallowed any of the traitors to keep firearms or to ever hold any elected office again.
Uncle Cosmo
@catclub: And when Pootie-Poot gives her the wink-&-nod, she’ll take public umbrage (or at least penumbrage) at something Uncle Joe says, & crank up a third-party run.
Brachiator
The latest from the Los Angeles County briefing on the corona virus:
It was a very sobering and professional briefing, unlike the Trump Administration circus earlier today.
Kent
We are all focused on whether Trump will suffer the correct blame for this disaster.
But the larger question is whether the GOP writ-large will suffer.
Red-state governors who are still letting spring breakers run wild on the beaches and are refusing to shut things down.
Red state legislatures who let their health systems atrophy when they refused to expand medicaid in order to “defy” the black Kenyan socialist
There are going to be endless contrasts between how red and blue America responds to this emergency. Will the incompetent scum who populate the GOP be held accountable at any level, much less Trump?
I really don’t know but I’m not optimistic.
dww44
I do think my red governed state has been perhaps doing better than a couple of our neighbors. Nevertheless areas outside of the Atlanta Metro area are beginning to report confirmed cases. My county in the mid state just today reported its first, and an adjacent county has reported its first.
But in a country in need of a bit of schadenfreude, there’s this:
Of course, this state Senator has rightly been chastised by his fellow Republicans.
mrmoshpotato
@pamelabrown53:
Fixed.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax:
Never heard it put that way. I like it.
NotMax
@mrmospotato
“Jesus, Lindsey, you submitted the length and heft of your chain to Guinness yet?”
Kent
Actual hurricane season starts in a couple of months. We are overdue for another season like 2005 (Katrina, Rita, Wilma, etc.). What is a major city like Miami or Houston going to do if they are in the midst of a coronavirus medial melt-down and mandatory quarantine and a Cat-5 comes rolling ashore?
Enhanced Voting Techniques
This is why Italy is getting up to 500 people dying a day and it was the virus getting into two rest homes in Washington that caused most of those 68 deaths there.
WaterGirl
@Kent: I bought this at Amazon last week:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZQKVBPP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
Seems like you could put a mask in there.
raven
@dww44: 5 in Athens.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Kelly
@Kent: California fire season starts in a few months. Will fire crews travel from all over the country? How do you evacuate and maintain quarantine?
cain
@Martin:
Our own divisions are going to make this a recurring problem. To solve it – everyone needs to be on the same page. If that is can be achieved with the likes of Lou Dobbs + Fox News and others? I don’t know.
Martin
@raven: No, landlords would have a pause on their mortgage. So you don’t get rent, but you don’t pay mortgage. You’re losing some income, sure, But we’ve shrunk down the size of the hole we need to plug from what you’re being paid for rent, to what bills you were trying to pay from the delta between rent and mortgage.
It puts all of that burden on the banks and other large lenders, but it’s not like they’re going completely without either. We’re not paying your rent or mortgage, we’re just delaying it. Your mortgage term gets extended by x months, so you still pay the same in the end, you just aren’t doing it right now.
All we’re really changing is the ‘right now’ part. Now, there’s less money in the system to build new houses and such, but that’s not happening anyway, again, by regulation, not by lack of demand.
The whole point of a capitalist system is that the economy is driven fundamentally by demand, which ebbs and flows. You stimulate demand when it ebbs, and collect excess taxes to pay for that stimulus when it flows. But this isn’t a demand problem. It’s not that we don’t want to go out to eat, it’s that by law we can’t. So, giving money to consumers doesn’t change that at all.
That leaves the infrastructure side of things – rents, utilities, etc. The government can much more efficiently and rapidly put those on hold as well. We can’t pause eating or healthcare, but we can pause a hell of a lot of the rest, and are being forced to. So just go all in on that and just subsidize the bits we can’t.
Mary G
Wow. WaPo:
Italy on Thursday hit a grim milestone, surpassing China for the largest number of coronavirus-related deaths, at 3,405.
WaterGirl
@cope: I have a vague recollection (may be completely wrong!) that select groups of people get asked a TON of extra questions. Maybe you were in one of those groups last time?
GusdiZerega
@Chyron HR:
A statement like that requires a back up because it makes no sense.
mrmoshpotato
@Uncle Cosmo: Ok – all the nutrients of an 8-oz glass of straight juice.
Happy now?
Jeffro
@MattF: love it. Hand her another clip.
pamelabrown53
@MattF:
Thank you for the link Our media is failing us on every front. The cable news just treat Trump like he’s a normal president by broadcasting his lies and propaganda. The “after analysis” is too late. Plus, the added reality bias is Trump’s Clown House won’t allow questions from legitimate journalists.
artem1s
@Citizen Alan:
It may have been him but more likely his brother, John Sherman who did run for President, served in both the Senate and House, and was SOS under McKinley and SOT under Hayes. Principal author of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.
GusdiZerega
New Mexico borders Mexico, barely, and is run by sane people, unlike AZ and TX.
Martin
@Kent: That’s why government matters. They should be planning that shit right now. I suspect they want to be but doubt they are because nobody has old them to stop doing the less important shit that their job currently relies on.
Kelly
@Kent: Weed: an alternative to NSAIDs
Brachiator
@Aziz, light!:
And what would have happened to all the black people living in the South?
“Letting the Confederate states go” would also mean recognizing the legitimacy of slavery, and the recognition of the South as a sovereign nation. The North and South would undoubtedly had diplomatic relations, respecting each other’s laws.
Racism would also likely intensified in the North, now freed from any obligation to seriously think about civil rights for black people.
The South would be free to expand slavery into new territories.
Not much of a solution here.
Immanentize
@NotMax:
Killed or blinded a number of sailors my Dad served with
Martin
@cain: What if we infect the entire country with a virus in an effort to kill off Lou Dobbs? Would that help?
Elie
…And what will we do when all the infected revelers come home?
Adam L Silverman
@mrmoshpotato: Beyond that. I mean reduction in the military sense. From FM 3-90: Tactics:
https://usacac.army.mil/sites/default/files/misc/doctrine/CDG/cdg_resources/manuals/fm/fm3_90.pdf
Martin
@Kelly: I’m, tempted to start growing it just to be assured to have a UV light in the house.
NotMax
@Immanentize
Stuff like that and Sterno did a number on many throughout the Depression, too.
Adam L Silverman
@JPL: I’ve asked my former boss, a retired Green Beret colonel if he knows him. He says he’s going to have to look him up because it is such a common name.
Kelly
Heading out for a walk in the woods. Wingnut encounter at the Post Office must be walked off.
Immanentize
@NotMax: Sterno. Damn! Addicted people are addicted.
Did you read the recent investigations of the Fed. Government adding poisons to industrial alcohol during prohibition? Killed hundreds of thousands. Steven Miller and Ron Johnson (suspected porn name) would have been thrilled.
The Thin Black Duke
@moonbat: I agree. Too many people are going to die for this to fall under the radar.
Brachiator
@raven:
@Martin:
Here is how Los Angeles County is dealing with the issue of rents:
Something similar should be considered on the national level if the present crisis continues.
Lapassionara
Does anyone else remember when W sent every household a check for $300? He may have done this twice. It was supposedly a tax cut, but it did not operate the way tax cuts normally do.
we donated ours to a non-profit.
NotMax
@Immanentioze
IIRC, Sterno “squeezins” was the beverage of choice of the rummy in The Andromeda Strain.
RobertB
@cope: I got the long census form in the mail for the 1990 census. Pretty much any demographic question you could ask was on it. It also had a bunch of text on it saying in effect, “Fill this out, unless you want the Feds to come arrest you.”
NotMax
@Lapassionara
“Every” doing heavy lifting. Nothing received chez NotMax.
Lapassionara
@NotMax: Hmmmm. I’ll see if I can figure out what I remember.
Jeffro
@catclub: I don’t trust her for nothin’…here’s hoping she recognizes that kneecapping the Dem in November gets us all dead.
Sab
I have Chinese in-laws. They are really good at the hygiene thing. They wear face masks when they have to go out when they are infectious. They take their shoes off when they come in the house. They don’t like to shake hands because it’s unsanitary. They wash EVERTHING before they eat it. I wish there were more of them around to pressure the rest of us to be more sensible.
Back on the front page topic. I cannot believe I am saying this but I love Mike deWine. Leadership and all. His press conference where everyone actually does social distancing. His competent cabinet (compared to Kasich’s tea party brigade.)
I went to work this morning to do tax prep, but when the social butterflies came in and social distancing ended I went home. I am not afraid of client files since those are two weeks old. I am terrified of my idiot co-workers.
Lapassionara
@Lapassionara: evidently part of W’s stimulus package in Feb, 2008. Billed as a tax cut. Not sure why some people got it and others did not.
I cannot, for some reason, do a link to the article I read on this. So sorry.
Uncle Cosmo
Right outside Linseed’s bedroom window at midnight, rocking on a tire swing, with a used parachute draped over his flight suit. To tell him he’ll be visited by the Spirits of GOP Past, GOP Present, and GOP Future…the last in a leafswept graveyard, with a headstone reading
West of the Cascades
@patrick II: Haberman picked the wrong hornet’s nest to kick.
Ruckus
@Fleeting Ex-istence:
If you are trying to stop droplets from being sprayed a bandanna works better than nothing. A tee shirt works. Not as effective as an N95 mask but far better than nothing. A medical operating mask works damn well better than nothing. Cheap and easy to make and disposable. But there is still a limit to how many can be made and distributed. If you have a sewing machine or dexterity with a needle and thread, a tee shirt could be cut up and make at least a couple of masks. Once again, not in any way close to perfect but better than nothing. And that’s the actual point, staying in works to slow the spread, a half assed mask works better than none. Perfection is the downfall of many things, because it is a forever elusive property that can never be achieved. The first polio vaccine was not perfect. It was far, far better than the nothing before it.
Sab
@Lapassionara: He didn’t send a check. He did, but it was an advance tax credit. So lots of folks got fucked come tax time.
NotMax
@Lapassionara
No biggie. Falls under “that was then, this is now” at this point.
Immanentize
@Ruckus: I saw a chart — on twitter? — that put vacuum cleaner bags second to surgical masks. Of course, construction N95s are almost as good as surgical masks too.
So go look if you have any shop vac or electrolux new bags in a drawer somewhere and cut some face masks.
debbie
They confirmed a 2-year-old boy had COVID-19 here (in Franklin County, Ohio) yesterday. I wish these deniers would wake the fuck up already.
Sab
Anyone who knows me (including spouse and stepkids) knows I am not the brightest bear in the woods. Went to grocery yesterday to get essentials. Got those, and also came home with Wild Republic mountain goat. We absolutely did not need her/him. She/he is standing on mountain of laundry.I lol.
Immanentize
@Ruckus:
@Immanentize:
Here is a version of that study:
Face Mask Efficacy
Fair Economist
@Martin: A payment moratorium may be necessary for time issues, since Trump has so delayed action to address the economic fallout. But it’s not going to work long term. If nobody pays anything to anybody for 18 months, we’ll never get things unwound. There wll beAnd many things have to be actively bought – food, medicines, gas, repairs, etc. These will only happen if we get money into everybody’s hands, and *very* quickly.
Ruckus
@Martin:
I know you are thoughtful, smart and understanding. But you have money, you are secure. Have you ever been, how’s the old saying, dead broke? I haven’t either but I’ve been comatose broke, which is the prior stage of broke before that.
You know what saved me? Social Security. It didn’t put me back in good, it got me off the floor. I got a job 8 months later and I’ve worked my ass off to get to OK. For a lot of people this disease will put them on the floor, they were only one step above that. Right now I’m self selecting not to work and once again Social Security is saving my butt. I can’t live on it only for long but it’s close. And closer than it was 8 yrs ago. In a year I should be able to retire. For someone not able to collect SS and who quite probably works a job that they will never get a decent SS amount this would be the same as SS was for me. A lifesaver. And I know that a lot of people think that we shouldn’t waste money on people who don’t need more but if it costs more and takes a lot longer to means test and there isn’t a reasonable level at which that takes place that will cost more, take longer and screw people badly, that will cost far more than the waste of just giving everyone money. If you don’t need it, donate it to charity, let the money you don’t need help someone who does.
cckids
And the self-employed; they’re never able to get unemployment.
James E Powell
@geg6:
Fair point. I should not have singled him out without reason. I apologize to Manchin and substitute “some Democrat” in place of his name.
raven
@Martin: Thanks, we don’t make much anyway and we’re having to put in new HVAC next week and we damn sure don’t make 5k year!
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Major Major Major Major:
I’ve got an N100 for use in Beijing and Southeast Asia on particularly smoggy days.
cope
@cope: Actually, this is to all who assured me that there are longer census forms: thank you. I guess I don’t recall when answering the long form long years ago that there were different sets of questions sent to different households.
Darkrose
@germy: It’s been noted elsewhere that he needs reading glasses, but he doesn’t want to wear them because he thinks it makes him look weak. Thus, briefings in a font you can see from space.
This is our world now.
Robert Sneddon
@Martin: Ultraviolet isn’t that good as an antiviral agent, it is used to kill bacteria which are much larger than viruses — think double-decker bus compared to a chihuahua. Viruses are almost the same size as the wavelength of the light you’re trying to kill it with.
It also has to be UV-A, deep ultraviolet (approx. 250nm) to do any good as an antibacterial steriliser and that’s dangerous to both skin and eyesight. Growlights top out at UV-C since nowadays they’re LED-based and those are only 350-400nm wavelength so they’re not even particularly effective against bacteria.
To reuse filters and kill any bacteria on them try soaking fabric-based masks and filters in water and then boiling them in a dish in the microwave or on the stove — simmer at low power for ten minutes or more at 90 degrees C. Most viruses and coronavirus in paricular doesn’t survive above 80 deg C. The paper/composite masks will, sadly, disintegrate if you try this and if you attempt to microwave them dry they’ll catch fire or at least have pinholes burned in them.
J R in WV
@Suzanne:
But of course, you are extremely well educated and intelligent, whereas Trump is ignorant and stupid, as well as malicious and evil. So unfortunately, I imagine he sleeps well, not being aware that he is destroying a once proud nation.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
Absolutely!
Flying Pigs!
Wanna take bets on when we see them in DC?
Kent
Simple enough to do. Just set 2020 income caps or phase-outs based on income. Say $75,000 for filing single and $125,000 for married filing jointly or some such.
EVERYONE gets the checks to spend today. Come April 15, 2021, those who’s 2020 AGI is above the limits pay back the check through their tax returns. Those who’s income was below the cap get to keep it.
For everyone who is wealthy, or above x-income the money is a 1-year interest free loan. For everyone else it is free money.
The problem with doing any kind of retrospective analysis of income today is that millions of people who were doing fine in January 2020 are suddenly unemployed. The only real way to do income limits is to just give it to everyone and then claw back the money from those who turned out to be wealthy through the entire 2020 tax year.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Major Major Major Major:
I’m with you – $1000 a month is about adequate to keep the lights on, groceries in the house, a little gas in the car and cellphones/the internet running.
It won’t pay the mortgage, the rent, the car payment and or the credit cards. The moratorium has to come along with it.
I’d say that we also need to remove the tax penalty and taxability of early withdrawals from IRAs as this thing subsides. Will that force the market down as people take advantage of the holiday? Sure, but it will ALSO put a huge amount of money back into the economy when it will need the jolt.
WaterGirl
@Robert Sneddon: I bought this last week.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07ZQKVBPP/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o04_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
It appears to be UV-C. will that help with the virus, or not?
It says this:
cckids
@Brachiator: It’s a step. But I can say right now, for an enormous percentage of renters in high-dollar markets, it wouldn’t matter if they got six years to pay back the accumulated back rent; they will not have the money. They were barely hanging on before this.
Ruckus
@Immanentize:
I saw the same article and it’s why I say better than nothing. Now that does mean you have to wear a tee shirt as a mask, I recommend a clean one, unless your sense of smell is as non existent as mine. And I wore bandanas with my motorcycle helmet for decades (not the same damn one!) to keep the wind from turning my beard into knots. Which is rather uncomfortable to comb out, so I have a few of them. BTN.
Brachiator
@Ruckus:
Even if there is means testing, the idea is to get money to people quickly.
They may look at the Adjusted Gross Income or household income on last year’s tax return.
This is just one possibility. We don’t know any details. And they may screw things up, but the goal is to get money out quickly.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
@Martin:
Under what authority does the government have the power to unilaterally turn off scheduled repayments between private parties that some starchy wingnut judge won’t reinstate – rightfully so – in a moment’s notice in a foreclosure? See how you get around several decades of Fifth Amendment jurisprudence in the process.
The Pale Scot
I cam accross this site Smart Air Filters that has done tests on the effectiveness of DIY masks. The skinny is that vacuum bags and tea towels are pretty good. Like someone said if its droplets anything is better than nothing.
Now where did we put grannie’s teakit from Glasgow..
Brachiator
@cckids:
If this crisis continues, I can see another round of payments. We will see what happens. Especially if Trump is defeated in November.
The Pale Scot
@Adam L Silverman: In any other country of the period, the officers would have been hung, their property and any producing infrastructure confiscated, the population disarmed and their rights to own property restricted. Instead we got Nathan Bedford Forrest.
Turtledove has an interesting take in one novel where the union does try to occupy and ends up losing the commitment of the military because of terrorist tactics by the Rebs. I think Grant should have just gone back and forth burning and hanging until the region was at peace, like Tacticus said.
Robert Sneddon
@The Pale Scot: You’re going to wear a tea cosy on your head?
By the way did you see the picture of Lord Wellington’s stature in Glasgow? He’s now sporting a face mask and goggles as well as his obligatory traffic cone.
Robert Sneddon
@WaterGirl: It may have some effect against bacteria but really the light has to be a lot more intense and/or much higher frequency to do much good. For viruses it’s pretty much useless, but it’s a buyer’s market right now for anything labelled “antiviral” and few folks would be able to refute the claims.
UV-A lamps used to kill bacteria in water supplies run to 20W or 30W in intensity right next to UV-transparent tubing carrying the water. A few UV-C/blue LEDs running off a battery aren’t going to do a lot to sterilise something inside a carry case.
WaterGirl
@Robert Sneddon: So even though it says it kills up to 99.9% of viruses, you are thinking it doesn’t actually do that?
Robert Sneddon
@WaterGirl: Nope, it doesn’t. I doubt it even kills 0.1% of viruses and its efficacy on coronavirus in particular is doubtful and unproven — viruses are all shapes and sizes and react differently to light, heat and chemical attack.
What is proven to destroy coronavirus is soap, it disrupts the outer jacket of the virus capsule hence the repeated insistence that people wash their hands regularly and thoroughly. Heat destroys the virus too, enough of it for long enough — the figures I’ve seen were 80 deg C (about 170 Fahrenheit), go higher if what you’re sterilising can take it. Concentrated alcohol (at least 60% by volume) hand sanitiser and bleach wipes (I’ve seen 0.1 percent concentration of hypochlorite recommended, diluted down from 6% “thick” bleach) also seem to do some good. Cheap gadgets with blue LEDs aren’t going to do the job, sorry.
Annie
Martin, if you get a check and don’t need it, give it to some who does need it. If it happens, I’m giving my $1000 to a relative who runs her own small event business. All events have dried up so she now has no income, but still needs to buy groceries. A grand would really help her.
laura
@Suzanne: I hope what you hope.
I know you’ve had a year, what with your wee addition, your job search- and competition from employers and now house moving. Wishing you all good stuff.
That wish for all good stuff is extended to each and every Jackal and those who love or tolerate a jackal!
anarchoRex
@Major Major Major Major: Ah, true, I didn’t think of that. Well, I wonder how many future cases will have resulted from crowding at polling places.
leeleeFL
@WereBear: Since I binge watched The Civil War by Ken Burns about 20 times, I have been saying stuff like this for over a year. Lincoln was wrong about letting them back in. Should have kicked ’em out, given the land to the Emancipated Slaves and moved the fuck on
Jane Austin
“Texas is finally doing the right thing. All restaurants, bars and gyms are closed. No larger gathering than 10 people.”
And Austin is way ahead of the State of Texas. All that stuff has been closed for days. Meanwhile HEB’s excellent home delivery service is backed up for days now.
And my son’s jobs in hi tech have been “work from home” for a while now.