Yes, we already heard Trump's remarks about Biden. https://t.co/ysxQhsApZN
— Mig Greengard (@chessninja) August 7, 2020
We report, you decide!
U.S. counterspy chief warns Russia, China, Iran trying to meddle in 2020 election https://t.co/0jOkKvzTtz pic.twitter.com/dObC4Y30px
— Reuters (@Reuters) August 8, 2020
… In an unusual public statement, William Evanina, director of the National Counterintelligence and Security Center, said the three countries were using online disinformation and other means to try to influence voters, stir up disorder and undermine American voters’ confidence in the democratic process…
Foreign adversaries also may try to interfere with U.S. election systems by trying to sabotage the voting process, stealing election data, or calling into question the validity of election results.
“It would be difficult for our adversaries to interfere with or manipulate voting results at scale,” Evanina said…
Evanina said “Kremlin-linked actors” also are trying to “boost President Trump’s candidacy via social media and Russian television.”
He said his agency assessed that China would prefer that Trump not win re-election, because Beijing regards him as too unpredictable.
He said China has been expanding efforts to influence U.S. politics ahead of the election to try to shape U.S. policy, exert pressure on U.S. politicians it regards as anti-China, and deflect criticism of China.
Evanina said Iran is likely to use online tactics such as spreading disinformation to discredit U.S. institutions and President Trump and to stir up U.S. voters’ discontent…
Many officials who oversee U.S. election technology and outside security experts now worry less about hacking in the elections than about misinformation and logistics such as a shortage of poll workers and slowdowns at the U.S. postal service.
JUST IN: In new statement, top counterintel official Evanina confirms what @kyledcheney and I reported last week: Intel officials believe “that Russia is using a range of measures to primarily denigrate former Vice President Biden” in runup to election. https://t.co/I11E6frl1D pic.twitter.com/t3EOOqYubU
— Natasha Bertrand (@NatashaBertrand) August 7, 2020
The nation's top counterintelligence official came out and said that Rudy Giuliani's ally and the Kremlin are playing on the same team.https://t.co/3uOWZKnYGh
— Noah Shachtman (@NoahShachtman) August 7, 2020
Rudy Giuliani has been wearing "I ??Putin" boxer shorts for a couple years now. https://t.co/KSv0BolyBZ
— Mig Greengard (@chessninja) August 8, 2020
‘The last person Russia wants in office’ –
this is true just not in the way he thinks https://t.co/xKdvxe5lrM
— Zeddy (@Zeddary) August 8, 2020
This may be a bit off topic, but I feel it’s related: A President Ignored – Trump’s outlandish claims increasingly met with a collective shrug.
Lukashenko won in Belarus with almost 80 percent of the vote with Putin’s help. Of course folks are protesting in the streets, but I doubt much can be done. Autocrats gotta win
Why is Putin doing this?
I don’t see how a destabilized US helps Russia at this point
@Benw: Removing US bases from Germany only helps him in his plans to destabilize the region.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
It doesn’t. Putin is either too stupid/crazy to understand this and just wants revenge on the US for the end of the USSR as well as maintaining his grip on power in Russia.
But the US is also at the nexus of the global economy. Russia’s economy is already smaller than Italy’s. I don’t see a boom in their future if the US falls. I also can’t imagine a destabilized US will help the global fight against climate change either. Does Putin even believe human-caused climate change is real? He has claimed in the past he does and I’ve read articles that the Russian government thinks that the arctic opening up will benefit Russia (never mind many parts of the world being rendered uninhabitable), but has also said he doesn’t.
Why, it’s almost like he has no real imagination or vision beyond a narrow set of possibilities and doesn’t give a damn about humanity’s collective future. Or even Russia’s, for that matter
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
It’s also important to note that America isn’t Belarus, despite recent and not so recent events that have degraded our institutions
if the USA is (was?) the world’s police, what do the world’s crooks want?
This is the alignment with Republicans: shrink/drown/neutralize the enforcement you can, and regulatory capture what you can’t eliminate outright.
Which and how much of each we are now is left as an exercise for the reader…
Putin is himself not a perfectly rational actor. He holds a grudge against the US, dreams of a reunited Soviet Empire he doesn’t possibly have the power to achieve, and ‘weakening the US makes me stronger’ was a religion in the KGB. There are real benefits to his strategy, mind you. For example, Russia is a train wreck of a country, and making America look bad reduces public dissatisfaction in his wildly, absurdly corrupt rule.
Jesus Christ. A pre-capitulation conspiracy. Instead of working to stop Republicans cold, let’s spend our time worrying about what Russia/China/Iran/Gondwana/WTFever are doing. Sounds like a plan!
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
True. But those are also short-term benefits. Climate change is coming for us all and destroying a country with an advanced economy such as ours, armed with a large nuclear arsenal, is honestly a recipe for disaster if it succeeds. Putin and others like him are basically dooming humanity to a hell-scape.
In your opinion, does he understand this and just does not care? I mean, the way the Earth is warming, he’ll probably live long enough to see the truly catastrophic effects
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Would the PRC/Iran interference nullify Russia’s influence?
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
Nope. Amplifies uncertainty and insecurity, rather than canceling out.
WE HAVE TO VOTE.
WE HAVE TO WIN.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
The report said that China at least would prefer Biden to win. It naturally follows they would seek to boost him if only to have a more rational actor in charge, correct?
Who needs foreign interference?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Isn’t it too late to file in practically every state at this point? I guess a fear could be they would try to encourage lefties to boycott the election. However, I can’t imagine that message will resonate with a lot of people beyond those who would not have voted for Biden in the first place
They think we are stupid. The voting system is a train wreck but we are supposed to believe that the ONE thing foreign govts cant do is change vote totals/results. The thing that counts most.
I call bullshit.
@germy: Anyone who would vote for the MPP is not going to vote for Biden anyway. What these folks crave is attention. They might actually pull a few people away from trump.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
They’re not big on details.
Putin thinks stirring things up presents opportunities for him that wouldn’t be there otherwise. Russia, on its own, is a physically large mid-tier country, a eurasian Brazil– but Russians believe they can outsmart anyone, so creating turmoil in otherwise powerful societies will give them opportunities to exploit.
@germy: Who says there’s not foreign influence involved with that?
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): They’d probably be more viable than Kanye, but that’s not saying much.
Not at all surprising, considering he hit the 20,000-lie mark back in mid-July (per WaPo).
I just heard a couple of kids and teachers from that Georgia high school have been diagnosed with COVID. I’m looking forward to Kemp’s mea culpa. /
ETA: Six students and three teachers. Principal is closing the school for two days.
@Wakeshift: yeah, I would say that’s pretty obvious
They’re under the influence of something.
@germy: I hope West, Turner et al form their new party, and stop crying about how the Democrats need to earn their their votes. There are not that many of them, for all the noise they make. The Left reminds me of a cup of cappuccino that’s all foam.
Are you kidding? Since the end of the Soviet Union, he has dreamed of bringing American down a couple of thousand pegs.
Again, this is the overlap in ‘thinking’ with Repub leadership:
Those suckers agree to be bound by rules and norms and the common good. I can ignore that, and personally win.
But it never lasts.
We must push back. There’s more of us!
So much winning…
On the Russia, China, Iran thing – it’s like the sun rising in the East. We’ve know this for months. The House passed legislation to combat this stuff. Donnie and the GOP Senate don’t much care.
We have to turn out enough so that their interference, and all the rest, doesn’t matter in the outcome.
Eyes on the prizes.
The Belarus protests are pretty significant, IMO. Along with Khabarovsk.
He has immensely weakened the US in the last four years. Not to mention undermining NATO.
And then we can send her money for another recount when they lose?
To be honest, the real surprise was that a Trump official would release this information.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
And? You say that like it’s a good thing. Fuck that. What matters is who American voters want to win and in enough states to win the Electoral college (and in a fucking landslide because Dump will whine bullshit even about a completely blue map.)
J R in WV
I’m pretty convinced that the pseudo-left wing of American politics is mostly all hired trouble makers working for Russia or China or the Mid-Eastern oil magnates.
No one wants to destroy America, they just want us too distracted by our own misery to pay attention to the crimes they commit every day upon their own peoples. Mohammed Bone Saw for example.
@germy: Oh Jill Stein. ? She can FOAD.
@germy: Comrade Dr. Stein sez wut?
@J R in WV: “I’m pretty convinced that the pseudo-left wing of American politics is mostly all hired trouble makers working for Russia or China or the Mid-Eastern oil magnates.”
And also useful idiots.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
None of these rich people care – the power and the rich – they are all short term thinking. But climate change is a foe that power and money can not fix.
A destablized US means no one is around the neighborhood to push back against Putin’s territorial and extra-territorial expansion plans, everywhere from Ukraine to Syria to destabilizing eastern European NATO countries.
Yes. It is. It means China is not ready to push the USA off the world stage.
@germy: She’s going to get fewer votes than Kanye.
@JPL: which region? Is it because we use the Germany bases to project power into the middle East? No one’s starting a shootin war in Germany
Russia paved the road. China has driven onto the on ramp.
@Wakeshift: but Putin already has full control and he and his cronies have as more $ then they can ever spend. And the US – even with a sane prez – isn’t about to remove him from power.
So why not let the US do all the work keeping the world stable, and just roll around in the sweet sweet blood money? If we collapse, his power is more threatened by random bad actors
IIUC as part of his current trip Pompeo is supposedly headed to Central Europe to sell the idea of energy diversity to reduce reliance on Russian gas and oil. If true, maybe Vlad’s checks have been bouncing.
It’s not money, it’s power. Putin wants to be the #1 power on the planet.
@zhena gogolia: right, but a strong US keeping the world (mostly) stable that he knows would never take him out is GOOD for him, not bad, which is what he had pre-Trump
Also, everyone knows he’s a journalist-murderin dictator, he can’t improve his world rep by trashing the US
You mean the “soon to be ex-” intelligence guy? :-)
He’s still got the most time zones!
Just One More Canuck
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That’s just proof that the system is RIGGED!!!!11!!! Rigged, I tells ya
@Kent: ah this is a good point!
I guess what everyone else like Frankensteinbeck, Gofu and debbie said is probably also true: he’s also a nutter that hates our guts
Money is a byproduct. The history of Russia is a history of the powerful operating under a superiority complex.
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Russia is a petrostate, Putin gets a cut of everything there, and consequently Putin is going to act in an manner favorable to fossil-fuel interests. That limits how serious he can get about climate change, and it’s also a reason for him not to want a liberal American government who will lean in to climate mitigation agreements.
It seems like it’s been about 0 days since Glenn Greenwald has not been a dick.
@debbie: @NotMax: I wonder what power means to him at this point? He can wreck the US as much as he can, but aside from local power grabs, it doesn’t bring him anything more. It’s not like eastern europe is going to sign onto Russian control if the US bails on europe
He’s not entirely rational, as I believe someone said up above. He doesn’t have to be a gibbering idiot like Trump in order to behave strangely. And he does.
@Benw: If the US was effective as a world policeman, there’s a risk that we sanction the hell out of Russia. No access to financial markets. Serious clampdown on money laundering. Seizure of assets in the US. It’s better for the Russian kleptocrats that we remain dysfunctional.
Remember when Solzhenitsyn defected to the West? We were crowing that at last we’d have a gulag veteran advocating for democracy. Turns out he didn’t want democracy, he wanted to bring back the czars. He would have loved Putin.
@cain: That’s just creepy.
I wonder why GG keeps commenting on this issue, rather than on Trump or McConnell or the GOP in general?
One of the replies to GG’s tweet:
They made us read his book in high school. They were all ready to make him our hero because of… freedom! But then he kept talking and ruined the game for them.
@Benw: Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are vulnerable to direct Russian invasion. Poland could not stop that, and Germany wouldn’t. A U.S. led NATO could, and that’s why our pulling troops out of Germany plays into Putin’s hands. And if he has a free hand, Putin might not have to actually invade. Just foment disorder, and get “invited” in, like the Soviets did in 1939.
@zhena gogolia: he probably giggles at the half of the US losing their minds under the orange buffoon
Russia has the threat of near-term collapse in oil markets. Electric cars are already cheaper to own and operate than gas cars, and in a few years they will be cheaper at initial purchase, not just over the lifetime of the car. Combined with active moves to electrify or replace cars in Europe and China, there’s a real possibility of a collapse in the oil business in the 20’s comparable to the collapse in the coal business in the 10’s. (We still mine it in quantity, but all the US coal companies went broke.)
Even though natural gas will probably be profitable for some time to come, that would put a big hole in Russia’s budgets – and Putin’s assets. So he’s very interested in keeping the US using gasoline as long as possible, and that means Trump, not Biden.
@Geminid: One could make the argument that the independence of these countries is not worth defending, but the worst way to make a change in our commitments is to back into it by default, which is what trump is doing.
@Benw: https://fas.org/sgp/crs/row/IF10779.pdf (3 page .pdf)
@Geminid: @Wapiti: good points. It’s also kinda a message from Putin: “anyone even think about trying to police Russia, or stop Russian aggression, and I will cripple you.”
I’m not sure it’s true that he can actually cripple other democracies, but it’s pretty fucking scary how fast Russia fucked up the US.
So apparently Glenn wrote his 2020 election propaganda after Iowa and New Hampshire and was too lazy to go back and see if the Democratic frontrunner changed at any time since then.
To be fair, something like 40% (of voters) and ~27% (of humans) want to be fucked up.
Putin is a stong cold misogynist too. He and Lavrov made fun of Hillary when she brought the restart button at the beginning of her SOS term and apparently thought she would’ve been cowed, just given up and gone away. Hillz was just matter of fact, don’t want to work with me, OK, have some painful sanctions instead. He’s been ratfucking us ever since.
@Wakeshift: yeah but that’s the BAD kind of fucked up!
I want to be the good kind of fucked up
Try this: Putin has a huge chip on his shoulder. He is still butt hurt over the demise of the KGB. Google the documentary “Putin’s Way” for a review of the man’s history.
@germy: Why does anyone still follow or comment on GG? I certainly don’t waste my time wondering what he is up to.
Putin’s in a position that having ratfucked the US, he has to finish the job. While Xi Jinping might consider a second Trump term a great opportunity to lock in the Belt And Road initiative and recapture Taiwan in all but name, there will be other opportunities. Their goals don’t necessarily require a neutralized US.
Iran actually made a couple of overtures over the last couple of decades the US stupidly rebuffed, under Republican Presidents of course.
@debbie: thanks for the tip!
I, for one, am glad that the US’s barely functional democracy was exposed because of “butt hurt”. So 2020
Okay, these are very simple-minded takes on Solzhenitsyn. He was no advocate for democracy, but he was a hero. He gathered the testimony of thousands of victims of the Stalin terror and put them together into a devastating work, The Gulag Archipelago. He probably wouldn’t have had much use for Putin, in fact
ETA: Okay, I take back the last sentence. I forgot that they overlapped. Solzhenitsyn died in 2008. He was pretty gaga in his last years and fell for it. But that doesn’t obliterate his accomplishment with Ivan Denisovich, First Circle, and Gulag Archipelago.
He couldn’t have done it all by himself, but he expertly leveraged the racism and stupidity and greed of a significant percentage of the population against us.
@zhena gogolia: yep, he knew where to hit us
I remember a line of reasoning, in 2018, that the Russians were just going to use their complete control of our elections to flip every Democratic vote to Republican, and thus we were 100% screwed. Does anyone else remember that?
Thanks for all your valuable insights. They will be given all the consideration they merit.
Certainly some of the Cosplay Socialists are paid foreign agents — although not as many as on the Trump-loving ‘right’. But IMO most of the ‘true progressive’ leftists are useful idiots, overage adolescents living off their trust funds & their Patreons while they whine about ‘no difference between the two parties.’
Putin may throw Jill Stein an occasional overseas trip, but I doubt he’s funding Jacobin or whatever the Trapo Dirtbag podcasters are calling themselves these days…
J R in WV
Well, on further review, you’re probably correct that lots of the left-wing nut jobs aren’t actually on a Russian payroll, we’ll never know which ones are formal Russian agents and which ones are just playing the game as if.
Plus, in secret agent games, even if they were being paid by the Russians, they wouldn’t necessarily know where the money was coming from, would they?
Back in 1969, during the anti-Vietnam war movement, I was a college sophomore and hung out with the anti-war folks… left wing girls were free thinkers. One weekend they were going to DC for a meeting and someone invited me along. It was in an apartment in a big old red-brick building down in a shady valley.
One of the older guys leading things stuck with me. Years later I saw pictures of the leadership of the Communist Party in the US, whatever it was called at the time. There he was… not that it upset me, the Communists were allowed to oppose the war as much as I was, but very interesting, very interesting, a learning experience.
@SFAW: thanks, dude! Right back atchya
@zhena gogolia: My high school physics teacher Pavel Litvinov was Lev Kopelev’s – Lev Panin’s – son-in-law, and suffered along with and after Ginsburg, Galanskov, Dobrovolsky, and Lashkova. Some years after I graduated, and after I had read Cancer Ward and First Circle (I’d read Gulag and Ivan Denisovich in high school), we sat down to talk turkey about the many, many varied people in the Soviet dissident movement. was not enthusiastic about Solzhenitsyn, and suggested that I read Varlam Shalamov and Brodsky, and to stay away from Solzhenitsyn because his dyspepsia with democratic modernity soiled the virtue of his Nobel.
I do agree that all of Gulag is a tremendous achievement – not the crappy abridgement sold with the imprimatur of that Canadian psychologist with benzodiazapine addictions and Covid – but the whole thing, a tremendous testimonial to suffering.
Did you see MisterMix’s post this morning? Greenwald & the other Horseshoe Socialists are big mad about their candidate getting ‘outed’ by the college students he was aggressively ‘befriending’, and they have convinced themselves that ‘it’s different for gays’ is a plausible defense. Except Morse was unlikely to beat Neal in the primary even if he hadn’t been creeping on his students, so…
Wow, “sick burn” (as I’ve been told you 13-year-olds say).
Just got back from Wonkette. Apparently, Tulsi is kaput.
She wasn’t running for re-election.
As to Putin, there are still U.S. financial sanctions in place against many Russian oligarchs, at whose pleasure Putin maintains power (a crime boss survives only as long as his lieutenants support him). If T wins, those sanctions will finally be gone; if Biden wins, not so much.
@SFAW: u mad bro
Actually I hate that shit and I’m sorry I snarked back at ya snark. But I was sincere in my comments on this thread til then, why did you snark me?
Because your comments were pretty much one-note, and wrong, and yet you still kept at it — despite the efforts of others to point out that it IS to Putin’s advantage to continue destabilizing the US. Among other things, continued destabilization of the US exacerbates/enhances the destabilization of NATO, which has been one of Putin’s long-term goals. And the “Is it because we use the Germany bases to project power into the middle East? No one’s starting a shootin war in Germany” comment was just silly.
In addition, your “barely functional democracy” (prior to 2020) was trolling. Unless you seriously believe that, which would be another indicator of less-than-profound thought/analysis. There’s a difference between having cynical, traitorous politicos (e.g., McConnell) use their power to pervert the system, and having the democracy “barely functional.” Note that I said “prior to 2020.” Will democracy collapse this year? I guess it’s possible, but why don’t we wait until November to judge?
Consider scrambling voter registration databases in Milwaukee, Detroit, Houston etc. Suddenly, a one-hour line to vote becomes a five-hour ordeal. Michigan, Wisconsin and Texas are now solidly Trump states.
No need to do anything as difficult as changing totals. Just eliminate Democratic voters. Putin sets up multiple teams, asssigns 3 to attack each swing state, and if 75 % of his attacks fail, Trump and Putin still win. Think they wouldn’t try?
Consider what Trump and Putin stand to lose under a Biden win. All their chips are being pushed to the center of the table.
Also I must be the only one who remembers Mr. Cole doing a post admonishing people to eschew use of the F word on the front page, so that should automatically disqualify some of them.
Oopsie. #97 posted in wrong thread.