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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Excellent Links / GOP Death Cult Excellent Read: “Trump’s Cloud of Gossip Has Poisoned America”

GOP Death Cult Excellent Read: “Trump’s Cloud of Gossip Has Poisoned America”

by Anne Laurie|  August 23, 20205:03 pm| 132 Comments

This post is in: Excellent Links, GOP Death Cult, Information Warfare, Trumpery

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This was only a trial run.https://t.co/3jasJgBowF pic.twitter.com/VJtm1jwz5j

— Tom Toles (@TomTolesToons) August 21, 2020

As you watch Trump get furious about random shit that isn't happening that he either heard about on a buffet line or kind of got from TV, please remember: his mind doesn't work and he understands everything that happens as gossip. https://t.co/WxAMmMoIGZ

— David Roth (@david_j_roth) August 22, 2020

Speaking of the upcoming event Betty brilliantly dubbed ‘Fyre Festivus’… David Roth, in The New Republic:

“So, I just heard that,” the President of the United States said at a White House press conference last Thursday. The conference, like the rest of Trump’s regular press briefings, was ostensibly about the federal government’s slow and lazy response to a pandemic that is still spreading uncontrolled throughout the United States. But because that response can no longer really be said to exist as such, and because he’s never much cared, and mostly because there is a presidential election coming up, President Trump was talking about something he found more interesting instead. In this case, it was a toweringly specious column that ran on Newsweek under the headline “Some Questions for Kamala Harris About Eligibility.” The story sought to undermine the natural-born citizenship of Joe Biden’s new running mate by Raising Some Questions while carefully stopping short of answering them…

It’s not just that this cycle of offhand umbrage and gilded bluster never goes anywhere; it’s that there’s fundamentally no real place for anything this useless to go. If a question arrives in a way that suggests he should do otherwise, Trump will absolutely give succor to the cultists, who have already committed murders and kidnappings in the name of their janky shared delusion, or humor some cheesy racist canard. It’s all just something interesting he’s passing on–about him, in case you hadn’t heard. He is an expert in it, actually.

It’s not just that the truth doesn’t matter to Trump, although of course it very much does not. All presidents lie, and if few have done it quite as relentlessly or thirstily or with as much unaccountable personal dampness as Trump, he certainly didn’t invent the right to howling, self-serving falsehoods as the ultimate executive privilege. What’s still jarring even this far into his presidency, though, is how unbelievably cheap and checked-out his communication remains. In his role as president of the United States, Trump reliably holds forth with the same po-faced casualness of a lonesome boomer hoisting some confounding eagle-strewn Facebook meme onto his page to an audience of sighing nieces and cringing grandkids. Trump has always been an inveterate gossip and clout-chaser. This is just as true now when he’s president as it was when he was live-tweeting Access Hollywood episodes about Robert Pattinson’s romantic travails; forever and always, Trump just wants to be a part of the conversation…

The collapse of shared reality across the online sector over the last decade unfolds every day in just this kind of fudgy, vagued-out language. It occurs through the steady accretion of the terrible, disturbing, utterly unfalsifiable things that some people claim or that you just heard all those things that may or may not be so but that are Worth Hearing and So Interesting—all of which occlude and then obscure the real and demonstrable violence that power visits on us every day. “I thought her voice was an important voice,” Trump said last month when criticized for boosting the spurious medical claims of an erratic Houston doctor and self-trained demonologist, “but I know nothing about her.” It’s a remarkable thing to say, and yet somehow it isn’t.

Then as now, Trump didn’t know anything about any of it—he never does, he never will, he doesn’t care—but he wanted to make sure that everyone else heard about it all the same. When other lonely, wrongheaded or web-damaged people extend the same dubious service to those in their lives, they sometimes attach perfunctory well wishes. The president doesn’t bother with that. As far as he knows, he’s just doing his job.

Definitely read the whole thing!

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Reader Interactions

132Comments

  1. 1.

    zhena gogolia

    August 23, 2020 at 5:09 pm

    “All presidents lie”? I wouldn’t say that

    ETA: I’d also call it disinformation, not gossip. Gossip is relatively harmless.

  2. 2.

    NotMax

    August 23, 2020 at 5:13 pm

    “I hear TIME wants to name me Man of the Century. Why aren’t you reporting about that?

    //

  3. 3.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 23, 2020 at 5:15 pm

    57% of Republicans believe 170,000 COVID deaths are acceptable.I bet if I put 10 Republicans in a room, ask them to raise their hand if these deaths are acceptable, none of them would raise their hand.That's because, like trump, they are cowards.— Optimist Prime (@EthanObama) August 23, 2020

  4. 4.

    Brachiator

    August 23, 2020 at 5:18 pm

    All presidents lie, and if few have done it quite as relentlessly or thirstily or with as much unaccountable personal dampness as Trump, he certainly didn’t invent the right to howling, self-serving falsehoods as the ultimate executive privilege. What’s still jarring even this far into his presidency, though, is how unbelievably cheap and checked-out his communication remains.

    No, this doesn’t work for me. Trump’s incompetence and disregard for facts and expertise is killing people. Roth is babbling like a media elitist who wants to reduce Trump’s depravity to using the wrong fork at a formal dinner.

  5. 5.

    Ruckus

    August 23, 2020 at 5:20 pm

    Trump just wants to be a part of the conversation…

     

    Trump just wants needs to be the center of conversation…

    Fixed that for him.

  6. 6.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 5:21 pm

    @zhena gogolia: “All presidents lie”? I wouldn’t say that

    Remember when the lie of the year was “If you like your insurance you can keep it.”? A sentence that was, at worst, lacking nuance.  It certainly wasn’t a lie.

  7. 7.

    NotMax

    August 23, 2020 at 5:23 pm

    @zhena gogolia

    However, all presidents do not lie nonstop.

    Also too, would go with a term coined specifically for the circumstances: idjitprop.

  8. 8.

    MattF

    August 23, 2020 at 5:24 pm

    @Brachiator: Well, he is using the wrong fork, and he is trolling all of us. Yes, it’s very far from the worst things he’s done— but manners and rhetorical patterns matter, and Roth is spelling out Trump’s bad behavior in detail. Worth doing, IMO.

  9. 9.

    Cermet

    August 23, 2020 at 5:25 pm

    Again, like civil war history shows, the media always down plays these ass wipes and their stupidity, lies, and total disregard for the truth. Then and only then can they make it more like “both  sides” and please their corperate overlords.

  10. 10.

    Brachiator

    August 23, 2020 at 5:27 pm

    More Trump craziness.

    The Trump administration on Sunday granted emergency authorization of convalescent plasma to treat Covid-19, according to a letter from the Food and Drug Administration.
    The announcement comes moments before President Donald Trump holds a press briefing. White House press secretary Kayleigh McEnany said the 5:30 pm briefing will involve “a major therapeutic breakthrough on the China virus.”

    Trump has an idiotic fixation on finding a magical mystery cure that will make the virus go away. And he wants to make sure that everyone knows that the “China virus” is not his fault. No doubt he will pathetically tout this new snake oil remedy during the convention.
    The FDA, of course, is wary of this nonsense, but what do they know?

  11. 11.

    Ruckus

    August 23, 2020 at 5:28 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Agreed. At a light, quick read it’s not horrible. But he’s making a real right turn there, trying to lighten up the mood to he’s not great but it’s no big deal. And it’s a massively big deal. shitforbrains gets to shit on the entire county, government, people, because he’s not getting his knob publicly polished and he’s shocked, SHOCKED I SAY,  to see there is gambling going on in this casino.

  12. 12.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 5:28 pm

    @Cermet:Again, like civil war history shows, the media always down plays these ass wipes and their stupidity, lies, and total disregard for the truth.

    I’ve been saying the media’s job is to protect the right from themselves, advance moderate Republicans, hamper moderate Democrats, and shut out the left.

  13. 13.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    August 23, 2020 at 5:29 pm

    Did anyone else order any Biden-Harris merch? I ordered mine on Aug 12, which I think was the day after the Kamala Harris announcement, and the Biden store tells me it’s “awaiting fulfillment”. I’m guessing they were completely overwhelmed by orders and back-ordered up the wazoo. Nice for them, but dammit I want my souvenir face mask, lawn sign and bumper stickers!

  14. 14.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 5:30 pm

    @Brachiator: Trump has an idiotic fixation on finding a magical mystery cure that will make the virus go away.

    It’s to the point where I’m not even sure I can trust it if a vaccine is approved. Trump is the epitome of the Republican trend toward simple answers to problems that don’t actually answer the problem but make just enough people feel good.

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Did anyone else order any Biden-Harris merch?

    I keep it in a secret crawlspace under my floorboards.  Can’t be seen wearing it around the house.

  15. 15.

    WaterGirl

    August 23, 2020 at 5:32 pm

    @zhena gogolia: When I hear somebody say “everybody lies”, I think to myself “Well, you obviously do!”

    Everybody lies.  nope

    Everybody steals.  nope

    Everybody cheats.  nope

    It tells you a lot about the people who say those things.

  16. 16.

    Brachiator

    August 23, 2020 at 5:33 pm

    @MattF:

    Yes, it’s very far from the worst things he’s done— but manners and rhetorical patterns matter

    We’re in the middle of a pandemic and the economy has largely been ground to a halt. About the last fucking thing that anyone cares about is manners.

  17. 17.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 5:35 pm

    @Brachiator: We’re in the middle of a pandemic and the economy has largely been ground to a halt. About the last fucking thing that anyone cares about is manners.

    But the “manners” thing feeds into the Republican narrative.  They feel that the problem with Trump is that he’s brash and swears a lot, then they project those feelings onto the political opposition.

  18. 18.

    Raven

    August 23, 2020 at 5:36 pm

    President Donald Trump’s campaign wants to counter the Republicans who spoke up for Joe Biden during the Democratic National Convention with some across-the-aisle pizzazz this week. State Rep. Vernon Jones, the only state Democratic official in Georgia to endorse Trump, is set to lead the effort.

    The DeKalb Democrat plans to speak on Monday at the kickoff of the four-day Republican convention, officials said Sunday. He’s the only Georgian on a list of dozens of names of speakers released by RNC organizers.

  19. 19.

    PAM Dirac

    August 23, 2020 at 5:38 pm

    The orange fart cloud is supposed  to announce a “major breakthough” regarding COVID treatment. It is the use of convalescent plasma. FDA will issue a EUA (Emergency Use Authorization) that allows its use use with some restrictions. The FDA documents are already up (here). They certainly expect controversy as it is the only EUA with a Decision Memorandum, which outline in detail how the data fit the language of the law regarding emergency use. The language is “may be effective” and it is hard to argue that convalescent plasma doesn’t meet that standard. My overall impression on first read is that is is not an obviously bad decision. When you have an emergency that is killing hundreds of thousands of people, getting a few per cent fewer deaths is thousands of people, but getting solid evidence for that few per cent improvement is time consuming.  Cost/benefit in a pandemic is not the same as cost/benefit in normal times. I think people should get used to these border line decisions. It will be a while before “correct” decisions are clear from the evidence.

    As for me, my wife just got home and the wine has been opened, so a more careful reading will have to wait.

  20. 20.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 23, 2020 at 5:39 pm

    @zhena gogolia: All presidents do some lying because of official secrecy. And this isn’t always ethically justified. But Trump has a depraved indifference to the distinction between lies and truth, which seems like an entirely different order of problem.

  21. 21.

    Ruckus

    August 23, 2020 at 5:39 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Well, magical mystery cure is about as close to any reality as shitforbrains is ever going to get. I can see why he likes magical mystery cures, because everyone tries to explain the why something doesn’t/won’t/can’t work to him and all shitforbrains wants and can deal with is someone to tell him he’s rich now, which of course makes him better than most anyone else. I imagine that he has no real idea of much of anything, he’s been so protected his entire life. Even his many failures he avoids, because he took care of them in a financial way, bankruptcy and I’d bet that he sees those as him protecting himself from people attacking him. He is after all a narcissist so he is incapable of seeing any faults in himself.

  22. 22.

    SiubhanDuinne

    August 23, 2020 at 5:40 pm

    This press conference is more sickening than usual.

    “Convalescent plozma.”

  23. 23.

    PAM Dirac

    August 23, 2020 at 5:42 pm

    @Brachiator:

     

    The FDA, of course, is wary of this nonsense, but what do they know?

    See my other post. The FDA documents are available for all to read. Claiming that this treatment is a cure all, wonder drug is crazy, but it is not at all clear the FDA decision is crazy.

  24. 24.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 23, 2020 at 5:42 pm

    @PAM Dirac: He’s going to tout it to the heavens as the miracle cure that will end the pandemic, which it definitely isn’t, and it’s going to poison all discussion of how effective a treatment it actually might be.

  25. 25.

    NotMax

    August 23, 2020 at 5:43 pm

    @Kropacetic

    convalescent plasma

    Does it make a good mix with bleach?

    //

  26. 26.

    PAM Dirac

    August 23, 2020 at 5:44 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: That may be, but it doesn’t mean that emergency decisions are wrong.

  27. 27.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 5:45 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: All presidents do some lying because of official secrecy.

    Political reasons too. Obama probably lied about not supporting gay marriage in 08.  I don’t really see any reason to fault him for this. He still did a lot to help gay people in his first term without doing anything to suggest he deceived voters as to what to expect if he were elected.  Then he “came out” post-Biden just in time for 2012.

  28. 28.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 5:46 pm

    @NotMax: Hurry and fixy your linky. That was Brachiator.

  29. 29.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 23, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    @Brachiator:

    And he wants to make sure that everyone knows that the “China virus” is not his fault 

    “It was that other Soviet shitpile mobster conman in charge of the CDC in 2019!”

  30. 30.

    Mike in NC

    August 23, 2020 at 5:47 pm

    I refuse to watch any of the Trumpian shitshow; low ratings would be the best thing we can give it. A four night infomercial packed with CPAC morons and QAnon lunatics. The My Pillow schmuck will be there to pitch his own miracle snake oil. I’ll follow the appalling goings-on here and in the Washington Post.

  31. 31.

    Roger Moore

    August 23, 2020 at 5:51 pm

    @Patricia Kayden:

    I bet if I put 10 Republicans in a room, ask them to raise their hand if these deaths are acceptable, none of them would raise their hand.That’s because, like trump, they are cowards.

    I’m not so sure about that.  I think if you talked to a bunch of Republicans and could get them to accept the actual death toll, many of them would try to argue the death toll was OK because it would have been impossible for us to do any better.

    In practice, they would go through the whole classic system of successive dodges.  First, they’d try to deny it has been as bad as it has been: the death toll has been exaggerated, people are dying with COVID not of COVID, etc.  Then they’d argue we couldn’t have done any better than we have.  Then they’d try to shift the blame onto state governors, China, people who got sick through irresponsible actions, and anyone else other than Trump.  The key is that they’re interpreting the acceptability of the death toll as a judgment on Trump’s job in handling the pandemic, and they’ll try any trick they can come up with to say Trump hasn’t been a miserable failure.

  32. 32.

    Sloane Ranger

    August 23, 2020 at 5:53 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: They believe these deaths are of those people or of the old,  whose Medicaid they’re paying for through their taxes, so of course they’re acceptable.

    Ask them if the deaths of themselves, their spouse or children are acceptable. Then you’ll get a different answer.

  33. 33.

    germy

    August 23, 2020 at 5:53 pm

    8pm tonight on ABC.  Interview with Biden and Harris.

    I’m not expecting smart questions but I’m expecting good answers.

  34. 34.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 5:54 pm

    @germy: I’m not expecting smart questions but I’m expecting good answers.

    Lemons –> Lemonade

  35. 35.

    NotMax

    August 23, 2020 at 5:54 pm

    IIRC, initial results reported from this program, which began operation on May 2, have been vague and sketchy:

    UK approves clinical trial of plasma therapy for Covid-19

    Sidebar:

    Gay men restricted from donating plasma to U.K. coronavirus trials
    “If I could donate plasma and it helped, at least there’s a silver lining to becoming sick,” one gay man who recovered from COVID-19 said.

  36. 36.

    germy

    August 23, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    Convalescent plasma is neither "major" nor "breakthrough"

    It has already been given to >70,000 #COVID19 patients and this EUA won't significantly change standard of care.

    Sadly we still don't convincing RCT data that demonstrate its effectiveness after >5M cases in US… https://t.co/AqHZDhob1l

    — Andy Biotech (@AndyBiotech) August 23, 2020

  37. 37.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 23, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @NotMax: Yes.  Very cool stuff

  38. 38.

    Baud

    August 23, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @germy: Thanks. I was going to ask about that.

  39. 39.

    NotMax

    August 23, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    @Kropacetic

    No edit function available on my machine. Sorry ’bout that.

    However, the two of you do look so much alike….

    ;)

  40. 40.

    germy

    August 23, 2020 at 5:57 pm

    How is anybody supposed to trust anything that comes out of the FDA or CDC when the administration keeps trying to push them to ignore science in favor of acting in Trump’s political interests? https://t.co/XiCwTY5ZuY

    — Parker Molloy (@ParkerMolloy) August 23, 2020

  41. 41.

    Just Chuck

    August 23, 2020 at 5:58 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Trump has an idiotic fixation on finding a magical mystery cure that will make the virus go away Trump.

    FTFY.

  42. 42.

    Just Chuck

    August 23, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    I have to wonder if the next GOP candidate won’t just literally fling his poo.  And 27% will eat it up.

    Ew, phrasing.  But still.

  43. 43.

    Cermet

    August 23, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    Well, for the religious fuddy’s, isn’t a plague upon the land a sign that the current leader is in disfavor? Then not one but likely two hurricanes striking red states. I see a pattern here.

  44. 44.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    August 23, 2020 at 6:00 pm

    Mr DAW has had auto racing on all afternoon, and as far as I can tell, a different race just started. So I couldn’t watch Trump if I wanted to. Which I don’t. He’s a ridiculous person. Listening to him kills brain cells.

  45. 45.

    Baud

    August 23, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    @germy:

    Trust FDA watchdogs.

  46. 46.

    Just Chuck

    August 23, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    @Kropacetic: I’ll trust a vaccine that’s approved in the EU.  I don’t trust anything from this failed state.

  47. 47.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 23, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    Trump cut news conference short. Tried to ask Dr. Hahn if he was under political pressure to issue this EUA for conv. plasma. He didn’t answer.— Jim Acosta (@Acosta) August 23, 2020

  48. 48.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 6:01 pm

    @NotMax: Plain black text on a white background?

    It’s funny I rarely consider what anyone here might look like.  The only exceptions are the people I met at a Boston meet-up and a front pager who, when discussing their home life, never fails to remind me of a family member.

  49. 49.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 6:02 pm

    @Baud: @Just Chuck: Reasonable.

  50. 50.

    Brooklyn Dodger

    August 23, 2020 at 6:02 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  Got this one yesterday. Not official gear, but sweet!

    https://www.etsy.com/listing/677914121/kamala-harris-t-shirt-kamala-vp-vice?ref=shop_home_feat_1&pro=1&frs=1

  51. 51.

    Sloane Ranger

    August 23, 2020 at 6:03 pm

    In regards to convalescent plasma, it’s not the game changer Trump is touting it as but, unlike bleach and hydroxichloricine?, it won’t actually harm anyone and it might do some good.

  52. 52.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 23, 2020 at 6:06 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: ?Brave Sir Trump trash ran away?

  53. 53.

    Brachiator

    August 23, 2020 at 6:06 pm

    @Brooklyn Dodger:

    Got this one yesterday. Not official gear, but sweet!

    I’m not usually big on campaign merchandise, but that’s a cool shirt.

  54. 54.

    PAM Dirac

    August 23, 2020 at 6:07 pm

    @germy: Read the FDA documents I linked to and tell me specifically where they ignored the science. The FDA didn’t give final approval for this treatment, they issued a EUA. By law the criterion is “may be effective”.

  55. 55.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 23, 2020 at 6:07 pm

    Yes.  They were blasting Thuggish Ruggish Bone during parts of today’s game at Wrigley Field, and we’re all better for it.

  56. 56.

    Brachiator

    August 23, 2020 at 6:12 pm

    @Sloane Ranger:

    In regards to convalescent plasma, it’s not the game changer Trump is touting it as but, unlike bleach and hydroxichloricine?, it won’t actually harm anyone and it might do some good.

    If it were a recognized treatment, it would already be in use. Anything that Trump recommends which is not signed off on by his scientific advisors is bullshit.

    And worse, some idiots will assume that this is a fast and complete cure.

    Trump is also going to use this to undermine and possibly fire some of his science staff. He hates being opposed once he gets stuck on an idea.

  57. 57.

    NotMax

    August 23, 2020 at 6:12 pm

    @PAM Dirac

    Not an argument against, but if – IF – they’re starting from scratch and not utilizing data from ongoing plasma trials elsewhere then they’re wasting time by reinventing the wheel.

  58. 58.

    Brooklyn Dodger

    August 23, 2020 at 6:13 pm

    @Brachiator: Sort of under the radar, which I like.

  59. 59.

    zhena gogolia

    August 23, 2020 at 6:14 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    I ordered a sign and stickers the day the VP was announced, but haven’t gotten them yet.

  60. 60.

    zhena gogolia

    August 23, 2020 at 6:15 pm

    Exclusive on Tik Tok – Trump announces the cure for covid! pic.twitter.com/fl10cwQbxB— J-L Cauvin (@JLCauvin) August 23, 2020

  61. 61.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 23, 2020 at 6:15 pm

    Scoop: Senior health officials in the Trump admin were taken aback last week when Peter Navarro accused them of being part of the "Deep State" during a meeting that was supposed to be about COVID-19 and the Strategic National Stockpile via @jonathanvswan https://t.co/H3bvQ4oY1L— Alayna Treene (@alaynatreene) August 23, 2020

  62. 62.

    Suzanne

    August 23, 2020 at 6:16 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I ordered a yard sign last week! Trying to get off on the right foot with my new neighbors.

  63. 63.

    Mallard Filmore

    August 23, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @Kropacetic:

     

    It’s to the point where I’m not even sure I can trust it if a vaccine is approved.

    I will wait for a vaccine that has the EU’s blessing.
    Or NZ, or South Korea.

  64. 64.

    PAM Dirac

    August 23, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @NotMax: Read the documents. It references all the clinical trails that are known and states clearly that ongoing randomized trials should continue and that data is absolutely necessary to know the utility of this treatment.

  65. 65.

    debbie

    August 23, 2020 at 6:17 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

    Plenty of Biden-Harris yard signs around here. I was surprised that they were available so soon.

  66. 66.

    debbie

    August 23, 2020 at 6:18 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    WaPo, who has been tracking the lies, said Trump hit the 20,000-lie mark back in mid-July.

  67. 67.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 23, 2020 at 6:19 pm

    Set your drink down for 5 minutes and watch this.

    Here's Trump talking with Alex Jones about their new miracle cure for COVID.https://t.co/t9uSxalO79— Bob Cesca (@bobcesca_go) August 23, 2020

  68. 68.

    zhena gogolia

    August 23, 2020 at 6:19 pm

    @Brooklyn Dodger:

    Love it!

  69. 69.

    Barbara

    August 23, 2020 at 6:20 pm

    @PAM Dirac: It’s in short supply and the evidence is building that it has a narrow window of therapeutic benefit. The only good thing is that unlike Plaquenil, it has to be administered in a medical setting, so hoarding is unlikely. Still, the rush to get it could disrupt existing clinical trials. It is not a miracle.

  70. 70.

    A Ghost to Most

    August 23, 2020 at 6:22 pm

    Stop focusing on the symptom, and start focusing on the disease. t* just jumped into the driver’s seat of an existing crazy train.

    What does America do with the 27%ers?

  71. 71.

    FelonyGovt

    August 23, 2020 at 6:24 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: Yes, i ordered Biden Harris face masks on the 13th and haven’t received them. I assumed it was post office delays.

  72. 72.

    PAM Dirac

    August 23, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    @Barbara: I agree completely. It is a time scale problem. If you wanted to invest your resources to maximize the chances of people who are diagnosed today, this treatment would probably be high on your list. But while this treatment has a decent chance of benefiting a non-trivial number of people, it isn’t something that will come anywhere close to bring us back to normal. So it makes sense to invest resources in things that will take longer to come on line, but will have greater benefit. Of course the problem is that the data to make those decisions with some amount of confidence are in the future as well.

  73. 73.

    jc

    August 23, 2020 at 6:28 pm

    I’m waiting for Trump to issue a new Executive Order, proclaiming: “Election Over. I WIN!”

  74. 74.

    Barbara

    August 23, 2020 at 6:33 pm

    @PAM Dirac: Doctors have been using it for some time, but it appears that its benefit is limited to a narrow range, and they are trying to understand how to use it so that is actually efficacious. The long lead time for test results is slowing down enrollment of study subjects.

  75. 75.

    jc

    August 23, 2020 at 6:36 pm

    Trump is intent on tossing out wild distractions and crazy conspiracies to bamboozle the country, to waste everyone’s time and to make his critics chase after his nut-ball claims to discredit them. Any thinking person sees that Trump is the one whose credibility is paper thin.

    It’s all about the facade to Trump. The Presidency is a TV show. He’s playing the role of The President from Central Casting. If you ‘look the part,’ it doesn’t matter what horrible policies you spout. He runs his “administration” like a cheap puppet-master. His base – audience seem to be enjoying the show … unfortunately the deeper meanings are lost on them.

  76. 76.

    Sloane Ranger

    August 23, 2020 at 6:41 pm

    @Brachiator: See PanDirect? And Barbara. for the nuance of this. The thing is that convalescent plasma is not a new idea and has had some success in the past.

  77. 77.

    Gravenstone

    August 23, 2020 at 6:42 pm

    @mrmoshpotato: That’s one of Schwarber’s walk up songs.

  78. 78.

    gwangung

    August 23, 2020 at 6:47 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: More political correctness.

     

    And following in the footsteps of Communists like Lysenko and Mao.

  79. 79.

    Matt McIrvin

    August 23, 2020 at 6:49 pm

    @Brachiator:

    If it were a recognized treatment, it would already be in use.

    It is already in use. The data on how effective it is are… ambivalent. Still definitely in the “might help a bit” category.

  80. 80.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 23, 2020 at 6:55 pm

    Guy walks into a bar in New Orleans and says “give me a Corona and two hurricanes.” Bartender says “that’ll be 2020”— bettemidler (@BetteMidler) August 23, 2020

  81. 81.

    ?BillinGlendaleCA

    August 23, 2020 at 6:56 pm

    @Ruckus:

     to see there is gambling going on in this casino.

    Obviously Trump is not familiar with gambling in casinos, he bankrupted several.

  82. 82.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 6:57 pm

    Congrats to Azar and Hahn for making themselves into medical/scientific accessories to a political stunt reminiscent of the Lafayette Sq. debacle. Some people will do anything to keep their jobs. https://t.co/NUfdhU8onw— Michael R. Bromwich (@mrbromwich) August 23, 2020

  83. 83.

    MisterForkbeard

    August 23, 2020 at 7:00 pm

    For anyone who hasn’t gotten Biden/Harris merch yet, I would expect them to be REALLY backed up.

    None of that merch was pre-printed or pre-made; it couldn’t be. So they’re making everything on demand. And given that so many people wanted merch that it crashed the website I think they’ve got a lot of orders to get through :/

  84. 84.

    Omnes Omnibus

    August 23, 2020 at 7:04 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: Do you have an idea or are you just here to say Balloon Juice is doing it wrong?

  85. 85.

    lgerard

    August 23, 2020 at 7:08 pm

    Oooooh…

    The Kim Jung Un is in a coma story is back!

  86. 86.

    ema

    August 23, 2020 at 7:19 pm

    Alex Azar, secretary of Health and Human Services, followed Trump. “We dream in drug development of something like a 35% mortality reduction,” he said. “This is a major advance in the treatment of patients.” The documents released by the FDA do not make clear where the 35% figure comes from.

    An FDA staffer who reviewed the data on convalescent plasma — and whose name was redacted from a memo released by the agency — was far less enthusiastic, writing that the data “support the conclusion that [convalescent plasma] to treat hospitalized patients with COVID-19 meets the ‘may be effective’ criteria for issuance of an EUA. Adequate and well-controlled randomized trials remain nonetheless necessary for a definitive demonstration of … efficacy and to determine the optimal product attributes and the appropriate patient populations for its use.”

    The announcement comes less than a week after officials at the National Institutes of Health staged a rare intervention to stop the FDA from issuing the emergency use authorization. NIH officials involved in the decision told the New York Times that more data, derived from randomized controlled trials, were needed.

    …

    A study conducted by the Mayo Clinic and the NIH indicated that plasma treatments appeared to have a small but statistically significant impact on reducing mortality in hospitalized Covid-19 patients who received the infusions within three days of the onset of symptoms, compared with those who got plasma after four days or later. The death rate after seven days was 8.7% in patients treated early and 11.9% in those not treated until later. But that study, while large, did not include a placebo group, making it difficult to interpret the data. And it hasn’t been peer-reviewed by other scientists and published in a medical journal.

    …

    It’s unclear whether the EUA will result in a meaningful expansion in access to the convalescent plasma therapy, as the president claimed. Tens of thousands of Covid-19 patients have already received the treatment through the FDA’s expanded access program, and the supply is limited by the number of recovered patients who donate plasma.

    …

    The agency has issued dozens of EUAs during the course of the coronavirus pandemic — mostly for diagnostic tests but also for some drugs — but at times has been forced to reverse course. The FDA, for example, revoked an EUA for the malaria drug hydroxychloroquine, which was personally touted by Trump as a treatment for Covid-19 but found in studies to be ineffective and possibly harmful.

  87. 87.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    August 23, 2020 at 7:21 pm

    Let’s dispel once and for all with this fiction that Dump doesn’t know what he’s doing, he knows exactly what he’s doing.

  88. 88.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    August 23, 2020 at 7:22 pm

    @lgerard: Everything Dump touches dies

  89. 89.

    TS (the original)

    August 23, 2020 at 7:26 pm

    Slightly off topic – Victoria, Australia  covid numbers today 116 new cases – 15 deaths.  Significant drop, following downward trend since level 4 restrictions imposed (3 weeks ago).  This was so good to hear. Lots of moaning about the restrictions but the downward trend shows the benefit. Could partly relate to a very cold weekend, may have been much less testing. No details available yet.

  90. 90.

    mrmoshpotato

    August 23, 2020 at 7:26 pm

    @Gravenstone: Excellent!  Good for him, and good for us!

  91. 91.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 7:26 pm

    31 years after they joined hands to demand freedom from Soviet oppression, citizens of the Baltic states formed a human chain in solidarity with Belarusians fighting to throw off the chains of dictatorship.We stand with the people of Belarus as we stood with the Baltic nations. https://t.co/i1wVnU0wkZ— Joe Biden (@JoeBiden) August 23, 2020

  92. 92.

    cain

    August 23, 2020 at 7:27 pm

    @Cermet: A divided America is how one makes money.

  93. 93.

    Joy in FL

    August 23, 2020 at 7:27 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:  “Did anyone else order any Biden-Harris merch?” I ordered on Aug. 11 and on Aug. 20. Both orders are awaiting fulfillment. I want to wear my BidenHarris shirt. Last week I wore my Kamala Harris, For The People shirt to the grocery store. It was the closest I had to BidenHarris merch.

  94. 94.

    David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch

    August 23, 2020 at 7:28 pm

    Kellyanne Conway’s Trump-hating daughter is apparently ready for a new family.

    “I’m officially pushing for emancipation. Buckle up because this is probably going to be public one way or another, unfortunately. Welcome to my life,” 15-year-old Claudia Conway tweeted Saturday night.

    Left-leaning Claudia has been openly feuding with her parents on TikTok and Twitter all summer, bashing them for their conservative views.

    At one point she urged progressive Rep. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez to adopt her.

  95. 95.

    Ken

    August 23, 2020 at 7:32 pm

    If convalescent plasma is helpful, the trick will be guaranteeing an adequate supply.  One way is suggested by the vampire movie Daybreakers: capture and imprison those who have recovered from the disease, continually re-expose them to COVID virus so they keep generating antibodies, and drain their precious blood for sale to the highest bidders.

    There are probably other, more “humane” techniques that might be used by other countries, but I’m pretty sure the US plan will conform to the above in broad outline. Especially the selling part.

  96. 96.

    jame

    August 23, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    Thanks for the link to the New Republic article; that was a damn fine read!

  97. 97.

    Ken

    August 23, 2020 at 7:33 pm

    @lgerard: Kim Jun Un is in a coma

    That situation reminds me of the old joke about breaking the news gently.

  98. 98.

    ema

    August 23, 2020 at 7:34 pm

    @ema:

    1) The entire comment is a quote form the linked article.

    2) The 35% mortality reduction appears to be made up. And a treatment, already in use, that might work on a select group of patient with a narrow therapeutic window is not a medical breakthrough.

  99. 99.

    FelonyGovt

    August 23, 2020 at 7:34 pm

    @TS (the original): Excellent news. I’ve been following the outbreak and restrictions in the Melbourne metro area and it’s good to see the numbers trending down.

  100. 100.

    Brachiator

    August 23, 2020 at 7:35 pm

    @Sloane Ranger:

    See PanDirect? And Barbara. for the nuance of this. The thing is that convalescent plasma is not a new idea and has had some success in the past.

    Trump does not do nuance. He was trying to push this treatment as a major cure.

    Trump is stupid and impatient. He is trying to sucker people into believing that he has an immediate answer to the pandemic. He is also trying to undermine the FDA and CDC if he needs to put out news of an imminent vaccine sometime before the election.

    Trump also hopes that his dumbest supporters suck in the conspiracy theory that the FDA is deliberately sitting on this cure (not merely a treatment) in order to hurt Trump.

    The actual efficacy of the treatment is irrelevant to Trump’s use of it for political advantage.

  101. 101.

    senyordave

    August 23, 2020 at 7:38 pm

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: Ordinarily I would say that the daughter has issues, and hopefully the family can deal with these issues and mend.  But KAC is a witch.  She is evil, and no person should be required to deal with her on a day-to-day basis.  I know it won’t happen, but the girl is probably better off with relatives.

  102. 102.

    Suzanne

    August 23, 2020 at 7:56 pm

    @MisterForkbeard: SuzMom is also placing an order. On the convention nights, they didn’t have coroplast Biden/Harris signs. Now they do. YAAAAAY!

    i have quite the collection.

  103. 103.

    dnfree

    August 23, 2020 at 7:59 pm

    @WaterGirl: I agree!  “Everybody does it” is an excuse.

  104. 104.

    TS (the original)

    August 23, 2020 at 8:02 pm

    @FelonyGovt:

    it’s good to see the numbers trending down.

    The Premier (Governor equivalent) must be breathing a sigh of relief – people/business not too happy with the shutdown. It had to work. He’s been doing a Gov Cuomo press conference every day for the last many weeks & is looking somewhat exhausted.

  105. 105.

    Ken

    August 23, 2020 at 8:03 pm

    @ema: The 35% mortality reduction appears to be made up.

    It may be from that one (not reproduced, not reviewed) trial that you included above.  That had a death rate of “8.7% in patients treated early and 11.9% in those not treated until later”.

    However to get that I have to assume they did the math the wrong way around, since a reduction from 11.9 to 8.7 is 27%.  You only get 36% if you’re going from 8.7 to 11.9.

    Also, as that article notes there was no control/placebo group here.  That is a comparison between two treatments both with convalescent plasma, so shows nothing about whether it helps compared to no treatment at all.

  106. 106.

    Nicole

    August 23, 2020 at 8:08 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I’m still “awaiting fulfillment” on my tshirt, and I ordered on the 11th.  My husband’s hat is on its way, but he just ordered a “Joe!” one.  I think those of us who wanted Harris on our stuff are going to have to wait a bit longer.

    (thanks for asking; it was reassuring to know I’m not the only one still waiting)

  107. 107.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 8:33 pm

    Annnnd now we have an even clearer picture: Nearly twice as many *primary election absentee ballots* were rejected so far this year compared to *general election absentee ballots* from 2016. ALARM BELLS SHOULD BE GOING OFF, FOLKS! https://t.co/sjkNhhUgoT— Sarah Isgur (@whignewtons) August 22, 2020

  108. 108.

    James E Powell

    August 23, 2020 at 8:43 pm

    @A Ghost to Most: 

    Stop focusing on the symptom, and start focusing on the disease. t* just jumped into the driver’s seat of an existing crazy train.

    What does America do with the 27%ers?

    We’ve learned to our chagrin that it’s ~42%

  109. 109.

    Another Scott

    August 23, 2020 at 8:46 pm

    Reading things like the following (long) T thread, one sees why “defund the police” has a strong resonance…

    Thread about my retaliatory arrest:

    6 police units arrived at my mom’s house at 5:30am, 3 different police agencies showed up, all exits from my mom’s house were barricaded, had officers surrounding the house, 1/6

    — Public Defendering (@fodderyfodder) August 23, 2020

    It’s long but important. Read it if you can.

    (via Popehat)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  110. 110.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 8:52 pm

    The RNC announces there will be no GOP platform for the convention — just support for Trump’s second-term agenda, whatever that is https://t.co/P5RkqdsfDV— Blake News (@blakehounshell) August 24, 2020

  111. 111.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 8:56 pm

    @Another Scott:

    been following it for three days. Cops from three Agencies and a “Magistrate” using loopholes, obscurity and Police Powers to try to illegally arrest and incarcerate a Public Defender.

    and almost a hundred Cops involved rather than you know, doing their actual jobs.

  112. 112.

    MC

    August 23, 2020 at 9:07 pm

    @Jay:  Good thing I have plenty of room in my brain for stuff like this, along with the five alarm fires and air raid sirens.

  113. 113.

    J R in WV

    August 23, 2020 at 9:11 pm

    @Suzanne:

    August 23, 2020 at 6:16 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym: I ordered a yard sign last week! Trying to get off on the right foot with my new neighbors.

    Our next door neighbor has a Biden yard sign which is pretty funny. Their drive up is as long as our road, similarly a dead end at their house. So no one but them and us will ever see it. But still, great. The $$ went to Biden!!!

    I’m sure she’ll get another newer one now that Kamala Harris needs to be on the sign!

  114. 114.

    J R in WV

    August 23, 2020 at 9:19 pm

    @lgerard:

    Also:

    Generalissimo Francisco Franco, dictator of Spain, is STILL DEAD~!!

  115. 115.

    James E Powell

    August 23, 2020 at 9:20 pm

    @Another Scott:

    @Jay:

    I read the twitter thread. Where is that taking place? Was there any resolution?

  116. 116.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 9:31 pm

    @James E Powell:

    donno the where, the Public Defender and his Lawyer walked out of the Magistrate’s Office, because the 2012 “warrant” was voided, in 2012.

    Basically the Cops and a DA did a file search, found so old voided bullshit, faked up an enforcement of a voided warrant, then sent out almost 100 Cops from three agencies on a manhunt for the Public Defender.

    All because the Cops and the DA’s are trying to frame a juvenile for attempted Cop murder, and are corrupt as hell.

    No different than the NYPD sending 2 SWAT teams and almost a hundred Cops, to shut down Hells Kitchen for 6 hours to arrest a BLM Protestor, for the crime of,………

    using a bull horn with in 25 metres of a Cop, ( felonious assault and battery),……

  117. 117.

    Dan B

    August 23, 2020 at 9:37 pm

    @Another Scott: We are in a cold civil war.  Another Trump term and it would be a hot war.

  118. 118.

    Patricia Kayden

    August 23, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    Over time parties taken over by authoritarians lose identity apart from the leader- their resources and time are monopolized by the need to defend him no matter what he says or does. https://t.co/s33CslP0tW— Ruth Ben-Ghiat (@ruthbenghiat) August 24, 2020

  119. 119.

    rikyrah

    August 23, 2020 at 9:48 pm

    @Ceci n est pas mon nym:

     

    the site crashed a couple of times, if I remember correctly.

  120. 120.

    rikyrah

    August 23, 2020 at 9:50 pm

    @Kropacetic:

     

    It’s to the point where I’m not even sure I can trust it if a vaccine is approved.

     

    Not with these folks.

    Let all the Red State MAGA Folks take it first.

     

    Then, I’ll see you in 5 months down the road.

  121. 121.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 9:51 pm

    @Dan B:

    as Portland shows, and Seattle, Chicago, New York, it might be a hot war before Jan. 20, 2021.

  122. 122.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 9:55 pm

    @rikyrah:

    other Countries will have safe vaccines available. You might be able to order them online for delivery in the US. Like insulin.

  123. 123.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 9:58 pm

    "But how will we pay for it?""You already are." pic.twitter.com/1RQZ75jKts— Ben Inskeep (@Ben_Inskeep) August 23, 2020

  124. 124.

    Philbert

    August 23, 2020 at 10:05 pm

    @Dan B: same old CW, but this time the Confederates have a foreign ally assisting.

  125. 125.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 10:09 pm

    An 18-year old, with a two-week-old baby, was shot dead Wednesday just outside Prospect Park on his way to a vigil for a 42-year-old who'd been shot dead Sunday after he’d gone to a vigil for a 28-year-old who’d been shot dead the previous Wednesday. https://t.co/Z57iKcrXuv— Harry Siegel (@harrysiegel) August 23, 2020

  126. 126.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 10:14 pm

    Lori Laughlin was just sentenced to 2 months in jail. Earlier this year, the Manhattan DA recommended one year jail for a man who stole cough syrup and toothpaste from a Duane Reade. There are two systems of justice in this county and this is yet another example.— Eliza Orlins (@elizaorlins) August 21, 2020

  127. 127.

    catclub

    August 23, 2020 at 10:21 pm

    @Jay: You have to be able to read and follow instructions to cast a mail in ballot.  Sounds simple, but the inspectors are equally simpleminded, so if anything is wrong they can invalidate it. States that already make mail in voting hard are even worse.  Not quite requiring a notary, but close.

     

    So your plan should include training people on sample trial ballots.

     

    Since mail in ballots rarely get counted if the vote is less close than the number of mail in ballots, {states that do not have mail in voting as standard]  this all needs work.  Luckily the three states that surprisingly went for trump last time all have Democratic governors this year.

  128. 128.

    catclub

    August 23, 2020 at 10:23 pm

    @Patricia Kayden: yeah, the GOP convention is the trump family plus helpers.

  129. 129.

    Kropacetic

    August 23, 2020 at 10:27 pm

    @Jay: Lori Laughlin was just sentenced to 2 months in jail. Earlier this year, the Manhattan DA recommended one year jail for a man who stole cough syrup and toothpaste from a Duane Reade.

    Curious how much the man actually got and how much the prosecutor recommended for Lori Laughlin.

  130. 130.

    Another Scott

    August 23, 2020 at 10:32 pm

    @James E Powell:  You know as much as I do. The T thread is only a few hours old.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  131. 131.

    Jay

    August 23, 2020 at 10:35 pm

    @catclub:

    the US uses procedure and policy as a means of disenfranchisement.

    meanwhile, I get a voter card every election, can mail in, early vote, or vote in person with ease. Takes less than 15 minutes, a half hour with the commute, and get 2 hours or more off work to vote.

    Voting is easy if you make voting easy.

  132. 132.

    VFX Lurker

    August 24, 2020 at 2:11 pm

    @Jay: Voting is easy if you make voting easy.

    Voting is mostly easy here in California. Los Angeles County rolled out a new vote center system that worked fine for the 10 days of early in-person voting that we had before Election Day, March 3rd…then it got overwhelmed, causing some voters to wait three hours in line. ?‍♀️

    The majority of Los Angeles County voters cast vote-by-mail ballots, however. That worked without any problems.

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