Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

Speaking of republicans, is there a way for a political party to declare intellectual bankruptcy?

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

Let’s delete this post and never speak of this again.

Hi god, it’s us. Thanks a heap, you’re having a great week and it’s only Thursday!

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

Pessimism assures that nothing of any importance will change.

The willow is too close to the house.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

This chaos was totally avoidable.

I’ve spoken to my cat about this, but it doesn’t seem to do any good.

… pundit janitors mopping up after the gop

The real work of an opposition party is to oppose.

My right to basic bodily autonomy is not on the table. that’s the new deal.

Just because you believe it, that does not make it true.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Let me file that under fuck it.

When someone says they “love freedom”, rest assured they don’t mean yours.

Is it negotiation when the other party actually wants to shoot the hostage?

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Not all heroes wear capes.

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

Never entrust democracy to any process that requires republicans to act in good faith.

You are here: Home / Elections / Election 2020 / Election Year Open Thread: Florida (Well-to-Do White) Men

Election Year Open Thread: Florida (Well-to-Do White) Men

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Per the Washington Post:

… The U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit in Atlanta agreed with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis (R) that the payment of fines and fees by ex-felons is part of their “terms of sentence” and must be satisfied before they can vote.

The decision comes less than a month before the presidential swing state’s Oct. 5 deadline to register to vote for November’s general election.

“This is a deeply disappointing decision,” said Paul Smith, vice president at the Campaign Legal Center, one of the groups that had sued over the rule. “Nobody should ever be denied their constitutional rights because they can’t afford to pay fines and fees.”

The groups that filed suit say they are still deciding whether to appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court. Earlier this summer, the high court declined to overturn a lower-court decision that also went against felons seeking to register…

The decision in the populous swing state could have implications for the presidential election. In 2016, Donald Trump won Florida by about 1.3 percentage points, or fewer than 120,000 votes, and a recent NBC-Marist poll found that Trump and Democratic nominee Joe Biden are neck-and-neck in the state, each at 48 percent…

The amendment affected an estimated 1.4 million adults in the state. Thousands began registering to vote beginning Jan. 8, 2019, the first day they were eligible to under the amendment. But six months later, DeSantis signed into law an extra requirement that all fines and fees owed by felons, such as restitution to victims, must be paid in full before they could register…

Of course it’s a poll tax in all but name, and therefore illegal, but that’s par for the Republican course, especially in an election year.

Short term, it would seem the best remedy would be donating to those groups working to pay off the fines and get these folks registered in the next few weeks. Any Florida residents and/or legal experts want to weigh in about this?

Reader Interactions

78Comments

  1. 1.

    Matt McIrvin

    Isn’t it designed to be impossible for anyone to get re-enfranchised, regardless of whether they can afford it, because nobody knows the amount they owe and therefore they can never prove they’ve paid it off

    (To make it really strong, the state could use a strong random number generator to generate the amount of the fee, in some distribution with a long upper tail, declare that the person owes the secret amount stored in the computer and then erase the number without revealing it.)

  2. 2.

    Sloane Ranger

    First to respond! Personal first!

    I don’t want to be a wet blanket here but I don’t see how donating towards paying off people’s fines/costs would help if the authorities can’t say what for definite that person owes. Someone might be placed in the position of thinking they’ve paid everything off and then voting, only to be told that the State has discovered a new outstanding amount and that person ending up being charged with election fraud for voting.

  7. 7.

    germy

    @debbie:

    One of our favorites is the one about the elderly woman who takes the brother and sister to bible class.  Gives mangoes from her yard that “smell like liquor”

  10. 10.

    debbie

    @germy:

    Jeez, I wish I could name just one! I can’t count how many times my throat’s lumped up after listening. I suppose the one I relate to the most was from years ago about a mother and daughter and how hard it was to switch from a mother/daughter to friends.

  11. 11.

    germy

    Hawkins suggested in an interview that Trump supporters had helped the Green Party ticket with its legal claim before the state Supreme Court. The party’s petition was filed by attorneys from the Milwaukee-based von Briesen & Roper law firm, which has a history of representing Wisconsin Republicans.

    “You get help where you can find it,” Hawkins told The Washington Post when asked whether Republicans had financed the legal action. “They have their reasons and we have ours.”

    (And never the twain shall meet?)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/wisconsin-ballot-green-party/2020/09/11/797aa4d2-f44a-11ea-bc45-e5d48ab44b9f_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-banner-main_wiscvote-655am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory-ans

  14. 14.

    cope

    As a 30 year resident of the Mildew State, I can say with absolute authority that this is just another on a list of citizen supported amendments that the fuck head lawyers, realtors and car salesmen who comprise our legislature have subverted.

    For instance, the state lottery was SUPPOSED to be for “enhanced” educational funding.  When the stupidity tax was approved, however, the legislature cut the next year’s education budget because it could be made up with the lottery funds.  Voila, budget deficit erased, no taxes increased, Republicans win.  It’s their M.O. whenever the citizens approve an amendment…turn it to their advantage.

  18. 18.

    kindness

    Republicans across the land sprinkling fairy dust Federalist Society judges through our judicial system is showing results rat fucking the election. What they’ve ruled on in Florida and Wisconsin is electoral cheating except nut job judges OKed it.

    When we take over in January, that filibuster is gone. All federal benches will need to increase their sizes to overcome what MoscowMitch years of efforts have produced. That includes the Supreme Court. 13 members sounds good to me. Otherwise any new laws, regulations and programs will be held up and tossed by these very same loons in any future Democratic administration.

  20. 20.

    Kathleen

    Good news for Ohio voters. Ohio Democratic Party won temporary injunction against LaRose, who wanted to disallow emailed absentee ballot requests. LaRose is appealing. Of course he is.

    https://ohiodems.org/ohio-democratic-party-wins-preliminary-injunction-in-lawsuit-to-allow-emailed-absentee-ballot-applications/

    Also:

    Congresswoman Joyce Beatty, Congresswoman Marcia Fudge, Congresswoman Marcy Kaptur and Congressman Tim Ryan sent a letter this week to Secretary of State Frank LaRose urging him to use his existing authority to provide prepaid return postage on ballots and ballot applications to help eliminate voting barriers and ensure a free and fair election in November.

  23. 23.

    Betty Cracker

    @cope: Exactly right. I still think there’s a good chance Biden wins FL despite the rodent copulation, but it sure doesn’t help.

  24. 24.

    Ohio Mom

    Kathleen: I’ll be driving down Montgomery Avenue to the Board of Elections and voting early in-person. I don’t trust anything else in our state.

    Everything about the delayed primary was a confusing muddle and all LaRose has done is sown vote-discouraging confusion.

    It breaks my heart, really, to see what Ohio has become. It wasn’t so bad when I moved here in 1979.

  26. 26.

    germy

    Will this person still be moderating the vice presidential debate?

    Thread:

    Seems to me that if all that’s true then either Page is the independently wealthy, extremely generous patron of the Republican communications consultant or she’s getting compensated somehow for promoting the consultant’s career. Neither scenario is ideal for a debate moderator.— southpaw (@nycsouthpaw) September 12, 2020

  27. 27.

    Jeffro

    @kindness: Agreed.  Filibuster-gone.  Federal courts-increased by at least 50%.  Hearings into every “not qualified” judge (10 at last count) confirmed by McConnell/GOP, and possibly impeaching them – they never should have been nominated in the first place.  Add 2 judges to SCOTUS to make up for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.  Increase the size of the House by at least 50% too, while we’re at it.  Re-count the Census.  Institute Biden’s (Warren) tax plan and restore some sense of progressivity to our tax code.  Tax stock transactions.  Double the IRS budget and have them look at higher-income earners.  Gently increase gas taxes and send the money to fund green energy & road repairs.

    And get that amendment going to abolish the Electoral College…we’ll never get there if we don’t get started!

  29. 29.

    SFAW

    @Sloane Ranger:

    OK, I got pipped at the post, but Matt McI’s post wasn’t there when I wrote mine – honest!

    Whatever. Were I you, I’d use the “well, it’s five hours earlier where Matt is, so OF COURSE he’ll get in before me” excuse. It just might work.

  31. 31.

    JPL

    @Jeffro: It’s doubtful that an amendment could pass in the current environment.   There will be ads stating that NY and California will decide your election.   Your state no longer matters.

    They could give DC statehood though.

  32. 32.

    SFAW

    @Jeffro:

    Sounds like a good start. I’d like to see the Attorney General (and the House) start investigations into any treasonous or terrorist actions by the various (where “various” == “all of them, except maybe Charlie Baker”) Republican elected officials, as well, as former Trump maladministration officials.

  34. 34.

    SFAW

    @Leto:

    Ok, but what is day 2 of the Biden/Harris administration going to look like?

    We won’t be able to tell, because the tremendous shrieking by the Rethugs will drown everything else out for a few days.

  38. 38.

    SFAW

    @mrmoshpotato:

    LOOK AT THIS DEFICIT!  HOLY SHIT!

    Yeah. Will that be the Obama Deficit, the Clinton Deficit, or the Biden Deficit? Also: if the Biden Deficit, I think that shrieking will start on November 15th (or whenever the final vote count is reached, plus one hour).

  40. 40.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Captain C:

    “Okay, Mr./Ms. Red State Senator/Rep.  Which Federal programs and spending in your state are you offering to cut?” 

    Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, SNAP, and anything else that helps “the poors” and “the olds.”

  41. 41.

    Jeffro

    @JPL: The other side is welcome to run all the ads they want, and we will too.  I’m under no illusions about how long this is going to take…I just want people to get the discussion started

  42. 42.

    Jeffro

    @Leto: ???

    The Republicans are going to poop rectangular solid building materials when they see Biden & Co hit the ground sprinting in January.

    i hope the Dems take turns giving weekly national addresses that point out how they’re rapidly making things better for the American people in a host of ways.

  43. 43.

    Kathleen

    @Ohio Mom: I’m voting by mail for the first time because I’m also afraid in person voting will be chaos. The SOS received my application per web site so I’m just waiting for my ballot.  I will drop it off at BOE drop box in Norwood. My mail service is still very good.

  44. 44.

    Leto

    @SFAW: It’ll be like the draft. Numbers x-z, your firsts are ready.

    @Jeffro: FDR fireside chats but updated. Biden YouTube chats. Hope he has his ‘Vette and a dog ready for that.

  45. 45.

    Yutsano

    @Jeffro:

    Double Quadruple at least the IRS budget and have them look at higher-income earners.

    Doubling would get the IRS only to a budget level sufficient to 2015. You want actual tax enforcement? Give to the agency that nets four dollars for every dollar spent on it. And then watch the high earners start squealing.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    @MattF: oh my god, Capehart is just letting Giuliani spew his crap uninterrupted.  Making faces is not good enough.

    From what you guys were saying, I though Giuliani got taken to the woodshed, but it appears to be the other way around.  I had to stop watching after a couple of minutes because it was so distressing to see that.

    Did I misunderstand where you guys were at on this?

  51. 51.

    Cameron

    We should double the size of the House. The minimum size of the Bundestag is 598, and Germany has – what? – 1/3 of our population or something like that?

  52. 52.

    Captain C

    @mrmoshpotato: “Okay, Senator/Rep.  So we have you on the record as wanting to cut your own constituents’ Social Security and Medicare.  Thank you for the campaign ad, sir/madam.”

  57. 57.

    Amir Khalid

    It’s been a frantic first half of the first half of Liverpool’s Premier League season opener against promoted visitors Leeds United. Liverpool lead 2-1, both sides have had a goal disallowed for offside.

    ETA: Even more frantic: Leeds have equalised again. 2-2.

    ETA: Liverpool lead yet again with a Mo Salah goal. 3-2.

  59. 59.

    Bill Arnold

    @Yutsano:

    Give to the agency that nets four dollars for every dollar spent on it. And then watch the high earners start squealing.

    Yes. With 10 percent of the budget going after the serious billionaire suspected delinquents.

  60. 60.

    Elizabelle

    Book Passage author chat today.

    Bill Petrocelli
    in conversation with Joel Richard Paul
    Today, September 12th at 7:00pm eastern/4:00pm pacific

    Book Passage bookstore is virtually hosting Bill Petrocelli. https://bookpassage.extendedsession.com

    Free program, but you need to register.  Will give you access to their incredible program archives, and they seem to host top drawer authors on a lot of topics.

    Bill Petrocelli’s newest book, Electoral Bait & Switch argues that the Electoral College has changed from the institution that the framers of the Constitution intended to President a mere rubber-stamp operation with only one function: to distort the result of the popular vote for President. Joel is a Professor of Constitutional Law at U.C. Hastings Law School in San Francisco and author of Unlikely Allies: How a Merchant, a Playwright, and a Spy Saved the American Revolution.

  61. 61.

    Elizabelle

    @Elmo: 

    Elmo! Lovely to see you. Hope your pets and family are fine.

    Maybe put this link in the next thread too, re fires out West? WaterGirl puts one up most days.

  62. 62.

    Kent

    Seems like the only way to deal with this sort of endless fuckery in FL and elsewhere is to ram a new comprehensive voting rights bill through Congress that makes every bit of this stuff illegal at the national level.  Which will 100% require abandoning the filibuster if the Dems win the White House and Senate.

    That needs to be job one for the next Congress (while also addressing the pandemic).

  63. 63.

    Kent

    @Cameron:We should double the size of the House. The minimum size of the Bundestag is 598, and Germany has – what? – 1/3 of our population or something like that?

    And just have a simple proportional ratio of Congressmen to Senators.   Your state gets ONE Senator for every 4 or 5 Congressmen.  Small states like Wyoming would still get their ONE Senator even if they don’t have 5 Congressmen.  Which would still give them outsize influence.  But large states would get 4, 5, 6, etc. Senators with elections staggered ever 2 years so no more than 2 or 3 come up for election at any one time.

  66. 66.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Chacal Charles Calthrop: Oh.  I know.  I know.

    And if there was a *gasp of gasps* budget surplus, it’s “Let’s go bomb the shit out of some country with brown people.  Shut up libtards!  George W Bush is a wartime president!  Why do you hate the troops?!”

  70. 70.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Kent: Why would a bicameral legislature be necessary?  The original purpose was to have one house represent the people and the other to represent the states (which were considered equal).  You get rid of that, you get rid of the need for a second house.

  71. 71.

    RaflW

    @germy: More g-d damned ratfuckery in Wisconsin. Newest poll has Biden up by 5, but of course that’s within the margin of manipulation by a political party that hates voters

    also @germy: The idea of a Green using a GOP law firm sure does have a stench to it. If there are legit Greens out there, they might want to take this moment to figure out who the fuck this Hawkins dude is beholden to.

  72. 72.

    Geminid

    @RaflW: In Virginia, the Kanye West campaign has the law firm of State Senator Jill Vogel (R-Culpeper) suing to get West on the Virginia ballot. Vogel specializes in election law, and campaign finance law.

  73. 73.

    John S.

    @WaterGirl: I saw the same thing you did. Giuliani steamrolled Capehart and only someone who is plugged into politics would even know that he was full of shit.

    The media needs to learn how to deal with bullies.

  75. 75.

    scott (the other one)

    @Jeffro:

    Add 2 judges to SCOTUS to make up for Gorsuch and Kavanaugh.

    I’m totally on board with all your other ideas. But we need to add 4 not SCOTUS judges, because the illegitimacy of the Bush v Gore ruling means Roberts and Alito are also illegitimate justices.

  76. 76.

    cope

    @Amir Khalid: Fun game, good result but now I have to decide whether or not to pay for NBC Peacock to watch games as few of them will be on regular cable any more.  I know it’s only $5 per month but, come on…

  77. 77.

    PaulWartenberg

    it should be illegal to have the state withhold what the actual fines should be. they could keep perpetuating fines on parolees by saying “no that $5000 you paid wasn’t enough, you need to pay $5000 more” and keep saying that for years on end.

    this is a violation of due process as much as a violation of excessive fines.

    We need universal voter registration and automatic re-installment of that franchise once prison time is completed.

  78. 78.

    Chris Johnson

    @Yutsano: Give to the agency that nets four dollars for every dollar spent on it. And then watch the high earners start squealing.

    Hell yeah. I like your thinking and wish to subscribe to your newsletter :)

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