Take a breath. Set your alarm. Try to get a good night’s rest.
We got this. pic.twitter.com/cJOFd81rW4
— Kamala Harris (@KamalaHarris) November 3, 2020
Feels like I haven’t gotten a good night’s rest since approximately April (thank the Goddess for naps!), but I’m actually hoping tomorrow night will be different.
ETA:
Biden is the first presidential candidate to sweep Dixville Notch since Richard Nixon in 1960.
— Dave Weigel (@daveweigel) November 3, 2020
Trump can make fun of Biden for holding rallies with cars all he wants, but at least Biden supporters have a ride home.
— VoteVets (Text VOTEVETS to 88424) (@votevets) October 31, 2020
like yeah be concerned about what is going on in courts, but suggesting that trump is just going to steal the election no matter what is demotivational and not a useful thing to be doing right now
— use the dropbox or vote early in person (????????) (@mmcgrath42) November 1, 2020
2/ This in itself, regardless of whether he acts on these threats, is a crime against the state and the people. The threat is a form of psychological warfare against the American people.
— Josh Marshall (@joshtpm) November 1, 2020
We've gotten a lot of data, most of it very recent. 91 million people have already voted. There's no October surprise unless you want to count the latest COVID spike, which isn't good news for Trump. Trump can win but there's not much indication of a last-minute surge toward him.
— Nate Silver (@NateSilver538) November 1, 2020
“We wish we could care about other things in our lives, but right now, politics matter so much" https://t.co/euC59lVJeX
— McKay Coppins (@mckaycoppins) November 2, 2020
Another reason to think a Biden blowout on Tuesday is more likely than another fluke loss is that it’s clear from their sweaty ratfucking desperation that the internal Republican polling looks as bad or worse as the public polls
— Scott Lemieux (@LemieuxLGM) October 31, 2020
“Biden has held a lead in every CNN poll on the matchup since 2019…. Biden's lead nationally is wider than any presidential candidate has held in more than two decades in the final days of the campaign.” https://t.co/9umcyI4OBS
— Daniel W. Drezner (@dandrezner) October 28, 2020
A new piece at @PostEverything from @cwarshaw, @vavreck, and me about our research on TV ads. The takeaway: Biden and Democrats' ad advantage should boost vote share and could possibly decide the outcome in very close states.https://t.co/3gMwhUZAou
— John Sides (@johnmsides) October 28, 2020
jl
Thanks, Kamala talked me down from vague unease, general seeping panic, creeping subliminal very prolonged anxiety attack.
I heard from several sources that Biden swept Dixville Notch, and we now know they are traitors, or there was massive horrible nasty election fraud. Will Trump send in the troops? The first test of his nerves.
NotMax
@jl
DOJ, using AST (Advanced Sharpie Technology) has determined Dixville Notch is really a part of Canada, thus those votes will be discarded.
//
Benw
If you don’t vote for Joe and Kamala you hate the troops.
Mary G
Lincoln Project slam dunks again:
danielx
Seen a lot of elections, and they were all important. But this is most important of all.
rjnerd
And I just also saw a mention that the trump campaign is suing to have the votes thrown out. Haven’t seen anything beyond a mention of the suit, I wonder what tortured reason they came up with.
[edit] and it may well be a hoax. (the suit, not the vote)
West of the Rockies
My nervous stomach is trying to say we’re up by 1 with 2 seconds on the clock and they’ve got the basketball. My rational side though says we’re up by 7 with 3 seconds left. Hard to score 7 points in 3 seconds.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@rjnerd:
….For Dixville Notch?
Achrachno
@danielx: No doubt, but it’s looking really good. They (and we) have got this. I’m feeling quite sanguine, despite the high stakes. I expect to see T. solidly defeated tomorrow.
jl
” it may well be a hoax. ”
Pretty much everything the Trumpsters do and say for the next few weeks will be a hoax of some kind, so it will get very confusing.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Achrachno:
So do I. I feel alright about this. I wish I could convince my father. He was talking tonight about how the Trump campaign has hired ex-military goons and police officers to monitor the polls and create a stink, as well as lawyers being sent into practically every battleground state
MisterForkbeard
I’m feeling really good about tomorrow (punctuated by moments of stark anxiety when I think about what losing would mean), but goddammit my work scheduled me for a series of really important meetings on the 3rd and the 4th, which means I not only have to prep and present all day, but also cannot get too drunk.
As an aside, it will also guarantee that I’m attached to my computer all day, so I’ll be obsessively checking news even if I’d rather just shut the whole thing off.
James E Powell
Senator Harris has access to the really serious polls. She’s not talking or acting like she’s losing.
In stark contrast, not just Trump but Pence and every other normally big talkin’ Republican are all pretty jumpy and inclined to incoherent outbursts. Which ones are going to be at Trump’s White House party and which will find they are, sadly, otherwise engaged?
If I’m wrong, I will want to crawl in a goddam hole and die, but I think we have a winner.
LadySuzy
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Tell your father that the Biden campaign has a big army of lawyers too. The task force, the level of preparation are unprecedented. The Biden campaign is totally prepared.
bluehill
Watch Tracy Chapman perform ‘Talkin’ ‘Bout a Revolution’ on ‘Seth Meyers’
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1P1g4C-Jjg&feature=emb_title
West of the Rockies
@James E Powell:
I hope Trump, Barr, Pompeo, DeVos, Kushner, et al, are wracked with intestinal distress and racing hearts, knowing they are weeks away from disgrace, serious legal jeopardy, and humiliation.
Kattails
Just posted this below, will repeat and then off to bed: “The thing about democracy, beloveds, is that it is not neat, orderly, or quiet. It requires a certain relish for confusion”.
— Molly Ivins
Get some sleep, gang, we are going to need to get to work seriously in a short while, and I do not mean fussing over vote stuff. We are going to be in for a massive, sustained effort to create new tracks and get shit back onto them.
NotMax
@West of the Rockies
No matter the intensity and duration of intestinal distress Kushner suffers he remains full of sh*t.
Mary G
@LadySuzy: The Democrat response to the suit the Republicans filed when they lost in the Texas Supreme Court and went to the federal district judge was already written and almost immediately filed.
grammypat
Election, but not Kamala, related:
In 2016, there were ~15M registered voters in TX with ~8.9M total votes cast (Toxic Toddler got ~4.6M of those votes in this “blood red” state … exceeding Hillary’s total by a margin of only ~800k).
In 2020, there are now ~17M registered voters, and ~9.7M early/absentee votes had already been counted by 10/30. Both sides are clearly enthusiastic, so who knows what the turnout will look like on Election Day. (I suspect that a lot of the R “enthusiasm” is simply performative.)
Encouragingly, the 7 population centers in the state account for 66% of registered voters (and 73% of the new registrations). These “metro areas” contain a majority of the Democratic voters in TX, and ~6.6M of the early/absentee votes are from these counties. **
FSM willin’ and the crik don’t rise; we could be looking at a blowout.
** These numbers are not all-inclusive of the suburban counties surrounding the cities of Houston, Dallas/Ft Worth, San Antonio, Austin, El Paso, Corpus Christie, and the Rio Grande Valley area. Only those with >200k registered voters are noted.
-Side note-
Tonight while compiling this, I noticed that there are more than a dozen counties in TX with fewer than 1,000 registered voters. The least is Loving County in west TX with 111 registered voters … and 45 of them had voted early/absentee. Maybe to avoid the rush?
Redshift
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): The Trump campaign put out word a couple of months ago that they were hiring off-duty cops and ex-military goons to “monitor” the polls. Since then there hasn’t been a word about it. Since this gang can’t avoid publicly gloating about anything, and since the “plan” involved the Trump campaign spending money, I’m betting it was just a scare tactic.
Marcopolo
About to hit the sack but here’s my wish list for tomorrow slightly ordered:
Biden/Harris win
D control of the Senate (or at least tied)
Jill Schupp flips MO-2 US House blue
Helena Webb (personal fav) flips MO SHD 100 blue
Nicole Galloway flips MO Gov blue
TX State House flips blue
Half the candidates I contributed $ to win (this would be a lot of R to B flips at both state & federal levels trust me)
Pretty sure I won’t get them all but am hopeful for the top of the ticket.
Okay, good night everyone & Thanks so much to all the folks doing campaign/election work tomorrow.
NotMax
@Redshift
There was what amounted to a peremptory cease and desist order presented to a ‘private’ group planning the same tactics of intimidation in Minnesota, IIRC.
Laws are clear on who is and who is not an accredited poll watcher.
guachi
My election prediction:
270towin.com/maps/xOdEn
HumboldtBlue
Charles Mingus makes for a good soundtrack for the next 20 or so hours.
otmar
Good morning from Vienna.
latest news from here: 4 confirmed victims from yesterday’s attack (+ one of he bad guys).
seems to be IS linked / motivated.
this was the last evening before we went into covid lockdown. I think the attackers rushed their planning, as restaurants are closed starting today.
It doesn’t look like the synagogue was targeted, it was empty at the time.
The police is searching apartments and there have been arrests.
Not all attackers are accounted for, people are asked to stay home. School is voluntary today.
Sebastian
@MisterForkbeard:
Same here. Reading leantossup and observing the players mental state, Dems calm and confident, Trump and GOP scared shitless, gives me confidence.
And then moments of doubt and sheer terror.
The die is cast, very little I can do now except keeping morale up and talking people of the edge.
Mary G
@otmar: I’m so sorry. Vienna is one of my favorite cities
ETA: <a href=”#comment-7935260″>@Sebastian</a>: Condolences to you as well.
Sebastian
@otmar:
People I know were wounded. A bar I used to frequent got shot up, the waitress of the neighboring bar died.
Been on WhatsApp all day.
(Born and raised in Vienna.)
Edit: just saw that you are there.
Seas! Das Schwarze Kameel hats erwischt. Die Kellnerin im Salzamt hat nicht überlebt.
Mary G
NotMax
@otmar
Horrific.
Winston
Wow. 55 degrees here in Central Florida. Just woke up shivering. Guess I need some pjs. Made about 2 quarts of spaghetti last evening using my dads recipe (add a beer as it’s simmering). Should last at least 6 days. Be good to Biden and Harris great FSM!
I think it’s going to be a blowout tonight. May have to go to the liquor store this afternoon. Thinking bourbon. Top shelf. Back to bed. See y’all about 7 pm.
grammypat
@otmar: My first thought when I read about this was of you. Glad to hear that you and yours are okay. Do you have any idea as to what triggered the attack?
NotMax
@Mary G
Those with aquaria and/or porcupines granted an automatic exemption.
RandomMonster
Dixville Notch — is that the porn version of Petticoat Junction?
Winston
@otmar: horrible.
Mary G
It has begun:
These people need to go in the trashcan of history along with Iowa & NH “first in the nation” for no good reason.
mrmoshpotato
April of what year? :)
Pete Downunder
Did a radio interview for our local ABC (Aussie pubic broadcaster – like NPR without tote bags) and we had native Aussies calling in really worried about even faint chance Twitler would get back in. Intense interest in US election even all the way down here.
Mary G
@Mary G: Clean sweep! ?????
The president is looking for his phone. I changed my mind, Dixville Notch can stay.
mrmoshpotato
VoteVets needs to give the social media team a raise.
mrmoshpotato
Yay! Fuck you, you Soviet shitpile mobster crime syndicate masquerading as an American political party!
jl
Tonight I heard first Trump ads in SF Bay Area. One while driving home about an hour ago. Now another one. Weird.
RandomMonster
@jl: Now that is money well spent.
Yutsano
@jl: @RandomMonster: Mmm…I can smell that sweet sweet grift from here.
mrmoshpotato
@Winston: I’ll see your 55 and raise you a 42. Summertime!
montanareddog
@Pete Downunder:
Have they hired Jeffrey Toobin yet?
TS (the original)
@mrmoshpotato:
I’ll take that 55:42 as Biden/Harris winning margin.
NotMax
Unusually subdued tonight. As if all of Blogsylvania is collectively holding its breath.
TS (the original)
@montanareddog:
No – but they’ve found an ex-democrat in Australia who is now an independent and voting for trump. Probably found her on face book. Govt is starving the Australian ABC of money.
Amir Khalid
@Sebastian:
This is about those Charlie Hebdo cartoons again, isn’t it? I hate the whole business. To a Muslim, they are a mortal insult to the faith, and many Muslims feel the insult demands to be answered in blood. As a Muslim, I too feel the insult; but I will not defend or justify the murder of Samuel Paty, whatever a Muslim feels he did to provoke it, nor this shooting incident in Vienna. Murder is still murder, and in Islam it is both a crime and a sin.
That said, I wonder about the fascination with those cartoons. I’ve seen them. They’re not very good art, they’re mean-spirited, and they’re not funny. I also think the artist intended to provoke Muslims, and has been all too successful at that. Sharing them in the presence of Muslims, or even with their knowledge, is the same offence as dropping the N-bomb around black people. I have no patience for the argument that it is an exercise of free speech, or for non-Muslims who would teach us how much offence we may properly take at a deliberate insult.
Amir Khalid
@Pete Downunder:
Not sure if that’s a typo.
NotMax
@TS (the original)
At a rustic diner in the Outback?
//
NotMax
@Amir Khalid
Early Christmas present.
No el.
:)
otmar
@Sebastian: zaache gschicht.
Elizabelle
@mrmoshpotato: re the Vote Vets: I laughed out loud when I saw that one in Anne’s roundup of tweets.
Felt good.
Boussinesque
@Yutsano: Seriously. It’s like when this site gives me drop-down ads for right-wing garbage—I’m happy to have them waste their money to make me more determined to vote the bastards out, but I still wish I didn’t have to see/hear it.
Elizabelle
@otmar: and Sebastian:
Very sorry you, personally, and Vienna are the latest city to experience this. Murders in France, and now Vienna.
Mary G
@Amir Khalid: Same impulse that caused the Trump fans to block the highway in NJ & NY. Bullying.
Elizabelle
Peeps: some polling sites are not fully staffed with volunteers. If you have time — even for a two hour shift, or however long you are available — call or email your local/county Democratic party. I will float between two polling sites today; signed up at the last minute.
Rather than handing out paper sample ballots, we will be holding signs that voters can photograph with their cell phones. Socially distanced, and still informative. We can talk and greet, too. And alert polling staff when a curbside (ie. must remain in car) voter arrives.
We are supplied with numbers to call in event of trouble or disruption, too. Up to and including 911.
Help bring this one home, to quote Kamala. Be a positive force in every precinct.
Sebastian
@Amir Khalid:
If it’s not cartoons it’s something else. A cult built around resentment and hate.
One of the attackers is a 20 year old Albanian from Northern Macedonia, wanted to join ISIS in Syria but was not allowed to leave the country. Intelligence didn’t think he’d be capable of doing something.
GregMulka
Two hours of sleep. Two hours awake. Two hours until the alarm.
I have been telling myself to be calm. Different race. Biden has been winning for almost two years. There is nothing trending to the favor of the vulgar talking yam and if the margin of error works for us it’s 400 ev and 55 senate seats.
I keep telling myself it’s time to act like we’re winning and break the enemy in half.
That’s the rational part. The other part has been stuck in a gibbering loop the past four years watching this monster and the party that allowed it try to shift us all the way back to what Hitler took his inspiration from.
It’s time for us to stake this beast to the ground, cut off its head, and nuke it from orbit. It’s the only way to be sure.
Sebastian
@otmar:
unpackbar. Welcher Bezirk? I hab beim Nestroyplatz glebt
Sebastian
@Elizabelle:
Thanks Elizabelle. With Erdogan pumping energy into the movement this was sooner or later going to happen. It’s a different head of the same beast, Putin.
TriassicSands
Democracy also requires a rational, well-informed electorate. We’ve got plenty of confusion, but we’re running short on rational, well-informed voters. Sadly, with the slave-owner-friendly Electoral Collage, a minority can and does rule. We need to reach out to the millions who don’t vote and find a way to break through their ignorance and apathy.
Molly Ivins would have some smart commentary to offer on our current situation, but I doubt it would have been printable.
sukabi
@Redshift: they got told by Michigan? Attorney General that they weren’t welcome, that what they were going to engage in was voter suppression and interfering with an election and they would be arrested and charged. The company Trump hired cancelled the gig.
Nina
I’m not worried about Trump lawyers because they think Rudy Giuliani is a great lawyer. I suspect their ‘army’ is similar stellar talents.
I have many lawyer friends and relative who are volunteering in voter protection. I suspect the talent comparison is somewhat ‘max level character in a noob zone’.
Amir Khalid
@Sebastian:
There’s the young guys in these cults who are looking for any provocation to justify killing, and then there’s the fact that the Charlie Hebdo cartoons are just as offensive to the majority of Muslims who are not in terrorist cults — the majority who limit themselves to the view (which I’ve seen expressed in mainstream media here, but I don’t share) that Samuel Paty got what he deserved.
NotMax
@sukabi
While not at all outside the realm of possibility that the same was done in Michigan, I believe you may be referring to Minnesota (see #23 above) and its Attorney General, Keith Ellison.
sukabi
How anyone can watch this guy and think Ooooh, now THAT’S presidential is beyond me…. The one and only Dancing Drumpf
twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1323534663453913093?s=20
And a snapshot of our national nervous breakdown
twitter.com/miblogestublog/status/1323365213450719233?s=20
sukabi
@NotMax: think you’re right…?
NotMax
@Nina
The grandee of Republican election lawyers, Ben Ginsberg, has not been shy about booting Dolt 45 to the curb.
Unfortunately he still holds to redemption for the party which has been irredeemably infested and infected.
Sebastian
@TriassicSands:
We have to acknowledge that there is a limited bandwidth of information, very much like our broadcast frequencies, and that the GOP has hacked it by flooding the zone. We simply can’t get any info out because it’s jammed with bullshit.
This needs regulation.
Geminid
Ahhhh… Election Day! I hear Animal Control is finally coming to round up that rabid dog.
Viva BrisVegas
Actually they were published in response to a fire bombing of the Charlie Hebdo offices a few months prior.
Which was itself a response to an issue that came out in response to the introduction of sharia law in Libya and a new Islamist government in Tunisia.
This issue contained a number of criticisms of sharia law as it is practised in several countries today, regarding the oppression of women, gays, stonings, flogging, amputations as punishment and more along those lines.
The cartoons were indeed a provocation. Of the fire bombers. I suppose they could have self-censored and saved themselves a great deal of trouble, but some people are stubborn that way.
daryljfontaine
@Geminid: Hoping for the removal of this Old Yeller.
D
Martin
I’ve not slept well since Feb, aside from a few nights with some edible assistance. I’m confident Biden will win, but even with a win, this is going to be a shameful day. The US should not need to be the site of pro-democracy efforts.
Looked at the numbers again today. I’m sticking with my prediction for 413 EVs.
Jack Canuck
@TS (the original): I’ve made a deliberate decision to not read/watch any ABC coverage of the election (or any of the commercial networks either). They usually do such a shit job of it. All I want is the numbers as they come available, thank you very much, I don’t need the wrong takes and covering it like a god damn footy match.
Mary G
HumboldtBlue
@Amir Khalid:
Cool, if you’re going to claim deliberate insult start with the history of Muslims depicting their prophet.
I have no patience for theists who claim their particular brand of belief is sacrosanct and that ridicule and mockery are one step too far and deserve a beheading.
Your skin color isn’t a choice.
Believing religious nonsense is.
Attempting to equate the two is a bullshit conflation and one I’m gonna leave alone because I am fucking fuming and I should probably go to bed.
Elizabelle
@Sebastian: Well put. We could use the guardrails that were dismantled, updated for present technology. It’s a must. A purposely disinformed population is a threat to democracy.
Germany’s experience with Joseph Goebbels and his ilk is a cautionary tale. Not a how to, which is how Fox News and rightwing media brought us to these sad and wasted years. And they’re inescapable. Constant repetition, of some factual reporting mixed in with lie upon lie upon lie, and then amplification of the “controversy” by other media sources, which really should know better
Not saying that that strain of ugliness and paranoia was not always present in America — it always has been. But rightwing media weaponized it. And is funded by very deep pockets.
mrmoshpotato
Happy Vote-counting Day!
David ?Booooooo!? Koch
Current Front Page of DRUDGE REPORT
HA! Rasmussen held out as long as he could, but even he knows the jig is up.
Shalimar
@LadySuzy: I trust the Biden campaign to actually have an army of lawyers. Trump’s people tend to value PR over reality, as if the point is to bluster rather than actually do the work of organizing lawyers. Who knows whether anything they say is true or not.
TS (the original)
@NotMax:
In a steel town where there still is a steel works although much smaller than it used to be.
Bruce K
It still feels like D-Day.
I’m confident that Joe Biden will receive more votes for President than any candidate in American history, save perhaps Barack Obama, and that the popular vote differential will exceed Hillary Clinton’s in 2016. But I’m still not confident that Trump won’t find a way to steal it.
And even if Biden prevails, the war will be far from over.
I recall reading that Eisenhower had drafted a short speech to give to the troops if the Normandy assault didn’t go well. It’s apparently in his Presidential archives. Four sentences.
It’s referred to as the “In Case Of Failure” letter.
He never had to give it. Let’s hope we’re as fortunate today.
otmar
@Sebastian: ich wohn im 20. Beim Gaußplatz, Hackn ist am Karlsplatz.
War alles nicht weit weg.
Amir Khalid
@HumboldtBlue:
Depictions of Muhammad (and, for that matter, of Jesus) have always been taboo in Islam, so I’m not sure what you’re getting at here. It is true we get to choose our religion and not our skin colour, but both are often fundamental to a person’s identity. So I don’t agree that that makes for a difference in degree of offence between insulting a religious person’s faith and insulting a black person’s skin colour.
prostratedragon
@HumboldtBlue:
I’ve had a tab open to the far less elegaic “Boogie Stop Shuffle”, which I hope captures the spirit of tomorrow evening better.
Anne Laurie
From the reports I’ve seen, teacher Paty announced in advance that he would be showing the offensive cartoons, and told his students that they were free to leave the room if they didn’t want to see them. But the parents of one of the children who *did* leave the room decided this concession was insufficient… and put out what amounted to a plea for Paty to be murdered.
I can’t speak to the principles of Islam, or France’s sometimes overaggressive ‘no religious symbolism’ laws, but demanding that individuals be murdered for failing to obey a particular faith’s tenets is never going to be a good idea, IMO.
Ken
@Shalimar: Plus, armies of lawyers expect to get paid, and neither Trump nor his campaign have a good history of that.
montanareddog
@otmar: ‘cos I am a nosy bugger and have been to Vienna a few times, I googled Gaußplatz. I see it is near the Augarten. I went there on one visit to photograph the flak towers. Impressive structures.
rikyrah
@GregMulka:
AMEN ?
David ?Booooooo!? Koch
Hopefully Wall Street will haul the media into a room (as in the film “Network”) and tell the dumb motherfuckers not to screw around with deficit talk. Turn on the fiscal faucets and Keynesian economics.
EmbraceYourInnerCrone
In line to vote in my town in coastal CT. The polls open at 6 am here. It is unbelievable. The line from the community center door stretched to the end of the block! It has never been like this first thing in the morning in the 20 years I have lived here…
different-church-lady
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It’s Trump: he’s probably suing to have all votes thrown out in all jurisdictions.
raven
Jamie Harrison is tearing up recounting voting with his grandfather. Nice moment.
different-church-lady
@Mary G:
NARRATOR VOICE: “It wouldn’t.”
Geeno
Wow. Just checked 270towin.com/, and they have Biden winning 404-134.
Amir Khalid
obviouso@Anne Laurie:
Obviously, I’m not disputing that wanting Paty dead for showing those cartoons to his class was every bit as bad an idea as making him dead. But Paty could have made to his class whatever point he had in mind without showing them the cartoons; why didn’t he? He must have known that mortal offence would be taken by those Muslim kids’ parents when they heard about it.
Again, I don’t condone murder or calling for it. But it is not for non-Muslims to say what insults Muslims may or may not take offence at, or how much offence we may take.
John S.
@Amir Khalid: True. But it is for human beings to say that the murder of human beings is morally wrong and unjustified no matter how one tries to convince themselves otherwise. Because there is no greater offense or insult than taking a life that wasn’t yours to take in the first place.
Amir Khalid
@Amir Khalid:
This business may well indeed be a clash between France’s too-aggressive secularism and the convictions of an ethnic and religious minority. I believe both sides here need to re-think some things: whether it makes sense to knowingly provoke religious minorities in the name of free speech, whether murderous retaliation for even the most heinous insults is wise or godly.
Amir Khalid
@John S.:
That murder is wrong is not what’s being disputed here.
Viva BrisVegas
Are you seriously making an equivalence here?
If you are, then that is what is truly heinous.
Geminid
@Amir Khalid: I just don’t think people should go out of their way to offend other people’s religious sensibilities. As a vindication of free speech rights, it has little practical value. And it creates resentment and anger, and we have enough of that already.
Amir Khalid
@Viva BrisVegas:
No, I am not saying that thoughtless provocation is equivalent to retaliatory murder. The latter is evil, the former merely stupid. I am saying what I think each side should stop to consider.
Viva BrisVegas
@Amir Khalid: There is a sequence to these events.
Criticism of sharia law by Charlie Hebdo.
Fire bombing of Hebdo offices.
Charlie Hebdo cartoons.
Mass murder in Charlie Hebdo offices.
School study of controversy around cartoons.
Beheadings.
Do we notice a pattern? Any discussion of matters pertaining to Islam are subject to violent retribution by a small clique of dedicated Islamists. They have made themselves the arbiters of the thoughts and words of non-believers.
This is dismaying enough, but perhaps worse is that so many more believers thoroughly approve.
louc
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): About that army of pollwatchers.
Amir Khalid
@Viva BrisVegas:
Charlie Hebdo have a right to publish what they want, and they certainly have a right to criticise Islam and Muslims. I’ve noted that the cartoons at issue here were deliberately provocative, and in keeping with Charlie Hebdo’s signature style of deliberately provocative satire. I don’t condone the violent reaction at all, I’ve made that clear, but from this Muslim’s point of view Charlie Hebdo were being more than a little reckless and self-righteous about their schtik.
burnspbesq
@West of the Rockies:
Hard, but not impossible. Defend the three-point line.
FINISH THE JOB.
Barbara
@Amir Khalid: The only nuance here, as far as I am concerned, is that children below high school age should not be put in a position where they have to decide between staying in class and showing allegiance to their parents or religion. There had to be some way for the teacher to design a lesson plan without singling out students of a specific religious background. But, of course, we have blown way past any possibility of discussing that issue because of the utterly maximalist, overwhelmingly out of proportion evil that was done to the teacher in return. Which not only more or less fulfilled the expectations of those who already disfavor Muslims in France, but made it possible for those same people to carry on as before, with any questioning of Paty’s lesson plan being characterized as giving in to terrorists. A total loss for civilized secular society all the way around.
Amir Khalid
@Barbara:
I agree completely on this.