Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Trump should be leading, not lying.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Stamping your little feets and demanding that they see how important you are? Not working anymore.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

No offense, but this thread hasn’t been about you for quite a while.

Black Jesus loves a paper trail.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Too often we confuse noise with substance. too often we confuse setbacks with defeat.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

Text STOP to opt out of updates on war plans.

If you can’t control your emotions, someone else will.

My years-long effort to drive family and friends away has really paid off this year.

If you voted for Trump, you don’t get to speak about ethics, morals, or rule of law.

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

He wakes up lying, and he lies all day.

Bark louder, little dog.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

The willow is too close to the house.

We can show the world that autocracy can be defeated.

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

Today in our ongoing national embarrassment…

Oh FFS you might as well trust a 6-year-old with a flamethrower.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Impeachment Managers, Who Impressed You? Who Surprised You?

Impeachment Managers, Who Impressed You? Who Surprised You?

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Everyone had a role to play.  Jamie Raskin was masterful and set the perfect tone, Ted Lieu was Ted Lieu (!), Joe Neguse (never heard of the guy before) was shockingly good, Joaquin Castro surprised the hell out of me (in a good way) and I was impressed by Madeleine Dean.

David Cicilline was good, but I haven’t gotten to his part today, so I don’t have much to say there.

So proud of our democratic bench.

Jamie Raskin, lead manager
Jamie Raskin, lead manager
Maryland

 

Joaquin Castro
Joaquin Castro
Texas

 

David Cicilline
David Cicilline
Rhode Island

 

Madeleine Dean
Madeleine Dean
Pennsylvania

 

Diana DeGette
Diana DeGette
Colorado

 

Ted Lieu
Ted Lieu
California
Joe Neguse
Joe Neguse
Colorado
Stacey Plaskett
Stacey Plaskett
Virgin Islands
Eric Swalwell
Eric Swalwell
California

Reader Interactions

161Comments

  8. 8.

    zhena gogolia

    All the good people are Democrats. I’m sorry. It was the same with the first impeachment — Schiff, Demings, Maloney, etc., etc. And here’s a whole batch of other ones, all great.

    I don’t remember a time in my life when all the good people were Democrats and all the Republicans were evil. But here we are. I guess I’ll give Mitt a pass, I don’t think he’s evil.

  9. 9.

    zhena gogolia

    Cicilline was very good today too. I didn’t get to watch the whole thing today. Raskin’s closing was tears all the way through.

    I adored Schiff and didn’t think he could be improved upon, but Raskin has a humor that really elevates his discourse.

  11. 11.

    zhena gogolia

    Neguse was impressive in both impeachments! I look forward to his future career.

    All this “gerontocracy” talk is ridiculous when you watch these impeachments. There is a rich store of relatively young, sterling people.

  12. 12.

    JaySinWA

    Diana DeGette’s first content this morning was excellent, but the delivery was not great. The videos were supposed to speak for themselves, but they showed up too small and the audio was just muddy enough that it should have be repeated or captioned.

    Others may have learned from that, there was more repeating into the microphone of the dialog in the videos after her section.

  15. 15.

    Martin

    Plaskett and Neguse, mainly because I wasn’t familiar with them and I’m now surprised with how every new elected Democrat that I discover impresses me. I know it shouldn’t –  elected officials should be exceptional – but even when the GOP elects highly credentialed individuals, they turn out to be a Cruz or Hawley. So many of them are either idiots or assholes or both.

    But I thought Neguse’s presentations were outstandingly clear and measured. I could listen to him all day.

  16. 16.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @debbie: Me too. Also Eric Swalwell was good as usual.  I loved Jamie Raskin.  Obviously, he has been a good teacher; excellent at explaining things clearly. And I loved the way, at the end, they pre-butted the BS arguments which will be made by the “defense”

    ETA: Joe Neguse was a revelation!

  17. 17.

    SiubhanDuinne

    Truly, as I said in an earlier thread, I can’t fault a single member of the House managers, except on the most trivial and superficial of grounds. They were individually brilliant, and as a nine-member team they were extraordinary. I loved their diversity, and the fact that they all had such differing, yet complementary, styles of presentation. No matter how this eventually turns out, this was an impeachment prosecution for the ages. Kudos to them all.

  22. 22.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @zhena gogolia:

    Neguse was impressive in both impeachments! I look forward to his future career.

    I don’t think he was on last year’s impeachment team. If you have a cite that says otherwise, I’d be interested in seeing it.

    ETA: Fully agree with you, though, about his impressiveness and his career prospects!

  23. 23.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @zhena gogolia:

    All this “gerontocracy” talk is ridiculous when you watch these impeachments.

    Thank you. And quite frankly, it was ridiculous without the impeachments.

    Though speaking of them, you could’ve knocked me over with a feather when I found out Schiff and Demmings were both over sixty.

  30. 30.

    Miss Bianca

    I dug through an old pile of papers for burning the other day and found a sample ballot from 2010. At that point, Joe Neguse was running for Colorado Attorney General. He didn’t win that time, but he’s obviously found his niche.

    Now if we could just get rid that of the nutcase Boebert next time round and replace her with a Democrat – any Democrat, let alone one as impressive as Neguse or DeGette – I’ll feel really proud of Colorado!

  32. 32.

    Starboard Tack

    @JaySinWA:

    DD is my rep and I do appreciate her intelligence and serious work ethic, but she’s not very rousing. I’m pleased she’s had this chance to be more publicly recognized.

  33. 33.

    Hoodie

    Neguse and Plaskett are rising stars. Raskin is a hero, to do this after losing a son who, by all accounts, was a hell of a kid. No doubt that is inspiring his dad.

  34. 34.

    laura

    YES!

    Each rose to the occasion. Each brought sobriety and respect to the proceedings commensurate with the seriousness of the task at hand. Bracing for the defense – it’s going to be hard to endure.

  38. 38.

    Just Chuck

    Other than watch some of the videos, I didn’t watch the trial, because I know the infuriating ending already.

    Either the GOP dies or this country does.

  39. 39.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @guachi: me too, just stumbled on this from Eric Boehlert

    No, that’s not a typo. It’s also not a fluke.

    President Joe Biden is posting the best inner-party approval numbers for any new U.S. president in the history of modern polling. Gallup last week pegged Biden’s approval among Democratic voters at a staggering 98 percent. Clearly overjoyed that Trump has left office, Democrats are giving Biden nearly universal, unblinking support at the start of his presidency, and rallying around his larger agenda in unprecedented numbers:

  41. 41.

    gene108

    Rep. Raskin impressed me the most.

    He buried his son on Jan 5th. Went to work on Jan 6th, and is heading up the impeachment managers over the last month.

    His mental fortitude is beyond words.

  42. 42.

    guachi

    COVID and the insurrection are certainly part of it but I think the fact that Biden is as close to Generic Democrat as you can get is also part of it.

    It’s almost Parliamentary rather than Presidential. Biden being a Senator basically forever is probably helping. And Biden has been amazingly competent these first two weeks.

    Very impressive from someone who was, like, my eighth choice in the primary.

  43. 43.

    laura

    @gene108: to find purpose and meaning must be the most difficult blessing and measure of comfort – I am grateful for his service.

    Jamie Raskin is “doing the work.” The only way out is through.

  45. 45.

    Chetan Murthy

    @guachi:

    Very impressive from someone who was, like, my eighth choice in the primary.

    It’s a great, great, great way to be wrong, innit?  [that’s where he was on my list, too.]

  46. 46.

    Starboard Tack

    @Miss Bianca:

    There’s a case that replacing Buck would be better than Boebert if there has to be a choice. Boebert has so much baggage she has a greater chance for self destruction.

  47. 47.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Martin:

    My son is more Bernie oriented

    And look how great Bernie’s doing!  Imagine if the spots were switched: does anybody think it’d be better for us?  Bernie is doing what he does so well: pushing to get better legislation thru, pushing for progressive priorities.  If he were President, trying to hold his coalition together, he couldn’t do that.  Just as Pelosi has to govern well to the right of her own predilections, b/c she’s gotta hold her caucus together.

    He (and we) lucked-out.  I wonder if he realizes this.

  48. 48.

    Kent

    I think the only time in my life when I was prouder to be a Democrat than right now was November 2008.

  49. 49.

    guachi

    @Chetan Murthy: 

    I am so happy to be wrong. Biden at 70+ is still going strong and all these impressive younger Congressmen.

    Still an uphill battle against massive gerrymandering and a rigged Senate. But I’ll take the slim margins we’ve got.

  51. 51.

    Kent

    @guachi: yes.  But for the first time in 4 years we are on offense not defense.  That makes all the difference.

    it will never be easy to maintain progressive politics in this country.  Never has been. Never will be.   The orcs are always at the door.  But at least in this moment we are making progress.

  52. 52.

    Netto

    Neguse is my congressman, and his (staff’s) responsiveness to mail and petitions is outstanding.  And he regularly sends out issue updates.

    As opposed to Cory Gardner whose rare reply was basically “thanks for your opinion but you’re wrong.”

  53. 53.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @guachi: I hope we– Democrats, the Left, the on-line Left, even twitter Left– learn the lessons of 2020. We need to win statewide in Georgia and Arizona, and North Carolina and Wisconsin and Pennsylvania, and maybe Florida and even Ohio….

  54. 54.

    Martin

    @guachi: Biden (and Harris, I’ll note) are vessels for the electorate. That’s how they’ve always seen themselves. If the electorate shifts right, they shift with it. If the electorate shifts left, they shift left.

    Biden has always made that remarkably clear with statements like this:

    “I’m prepared to accept for me, personally, doctrine of my church” about when life begins, Biden said, “but I’m not prepared to impose that on every other person.”

    So, this ‘moderate’ label on Biden has always struck me as odd. Did he support the crime bill 30 years ago? Yeah. But that’s where the party was then. It’s not there now, and Joe isn’t there now either.

    Mind you, if conservatives offered up reasonable policy ideas, they would enter the mix for him as President, but if it’s going to be tire rims and anthrax for the next 4 years, then Joes going to stay squarely in the middle of the Democratic policies rather than the middle of Dem and GOP policies.

  55. 55.

    geg6

    Stacey Plaskett was simply fabulous.  I know nothing at about her, but she had me mesmerized.  Which was a bit problematic because that was Wednesday and my day in the office.  And I had three zoom meetings.  But I still couldn’t take my attention from her.

  58. 58.

    guachi

    @Kent: I didn’t feel relief until the November election was finally over on January 5th with the GA special election.

    For all the attacks that the NYT’s “Election Needle” receives it showed a strong, and winning, showing for the Dems right off the bat. I called my mother that night around 9 and told her not to worry as MSNBC was acting like the elections were close than they actually were.

    I live in GA and I’m still amazed Warnock and Ossoff won.

  60. 60.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @Martin:

    Passing  HR1 or the equivalent is key.

    I agree. I hope that message is being spread, and finding a receptive audience, at those caucus meetings and lunches and suchlike. I also think it’s good politics, and I am long overdue to be right on that score. So.

  61. 61.

    NotMax

    Mightily impressed with the team behind the scenes tasked with wading through and whittling down hundreds, if not over a thousand, hours of video to find, prepare, transcribe, set up and present the clips shown.

  62. 62.

    dmsilev

    They were all very very good, but I’ll give the “best in show” award to Raskin. Especially given the circumstances with his son’s tragedy.

    Also, kudos to the team that assembled the videos. That was a hell of a lot of work, and they came through wonderfully.

  64. 64.

    Hoodie

    @guachi: Biden is a professional politician in the good sense, much like Pelosi.  He knows how to get people to do things, which often means not taking them for granted.  He was my first choice after I became sure that age hadn’t caught up to him yet.

  65. 65.

    Miss Bianca

    @Starboard Tack: I’ve been staggered to note, however, that Buck actually looks like a tower of integrity next to Boebert and Doug Lamborn. I mean, *really* staggered, because Ken Buck has been my go-to guy for bog-standard “Right Wing NutJob”, Colorado-style, for ages.

    Interesting to see that there is some Republican nut-jobbery that even *he* won’t stoop to.

  66. 66.

    FelonyGovt

    Ted Lieu is my Rep and I’m always proud of him. Rep. Neguse was a revelation- had never heard of him, but what an impressive young man.

  67. 67.

    Kent

    @Hoodie: Trump had a ferrel instinct for knowing that Biden was his biggest threat.   That’s what the whole Ukraine thing was about.  And he was right.

  72. 72.

    Martin

    @?BillinGlendaleCA: Right, my point exactly. Joe was where he 30 years ago because Democrats wanted him there. Today we want him somewhere else, and that’s where he is.

    I’m not sure how that makes you a centrist.

  73. 73.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    and the thread is now open enough that I will share what happens when Betty Cracker’s Ambulatory Cream Cheese Statue friend (not really a friend) tries to step up on the guy who created Omar, Stringer Bell and Proposition Joe (always loved Proposition Joe, the Don Corleone of the Baltimore Drug Trade)

    David Simon @AoDespair · 1h
    Hewitt, you hollowed-out little fucksquib, you’ve crossed the only rubicon that truly matters here. In your transparent attempt to cater to the beshitted and bespittled deplorati who easily squee at any half-ass trope that imagines decadent and vile elites, you have wantonly… (thread)

  74. 74.

    Kent

    Have we gone a whole week without talking about AOC and the “squad”?   Nothing against them.  I like them.  But it is nice to see some fresh faces really strut their stuff.  Pelosi knows what the fuck she is doing.  On every single level.

  75. 75.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Immanentize: Why would a Congressman from Colorado want to be Governor of Rhode Island?

    Anyway, we will have a Governor. By law, the Lieutenant Governor takes over.

  76. 76.

    Starboard Tack

    @Miss Bianca:

    Yes, well,

    1. That’s a very low bar.
    2. It’s like what Olbermann said about Rudy’s performance after 9/11. “He had a few good weeks.” Buck’s still a nut case.
  77. 77.

    WaterGirl

    @Martin:

    I’m not sure how that makes you a centrist.

    Perhaps by location within the pack, rather than by ideology?

    Still, I think Biden is more progressive than he generally gets credit for.

  78. 78.

    Argiope

    So this is topic-adjacent, but do we know any more about why calls from Gov Hogan to be allowed to deploy the MD National Guard took so long to get an affirmative answer?  The holdup was somewhere in the Pentagon and/or White House, right?  When do we get to find out?  Seems like it could be pretty relevant to the case for impeachment.  It’s been 5 weeks, and crickets.

  80. 80.

    WaterGirl

    @Argiope:  My theory was that they were going to spend part of today making the case that the administration had tied the hands of all the support that could be called out.  DIdn’t happen, obviously.

  82. 82.

    mvr

    @Kent: Completely get that about 2008. I had not expected a black Democrat as president in my lifetime.  So that was special in a different way.

    Back then I could go out and door knock and I drove to Omaha from my district and did that several times the week before the election.  My fondest memory was being in the office calling people from the black parts of Omaha for the hour before the polls closed and having everyone tell me they either voted or were headed out to vote. And getting the sense we had done it along with my mostly African American co-volunteers who stuck it out on the phones in the office.

    Not so hands on this time.  I made some calls, sent some cards and spent boatloads of money that the banks will enjoy getting my interest payments for. But it isn’t the same sense of doing something.  Still a somewhat greater sense of disaster possibly averted this time. OTOH also a sense disaster lurks.

  84. 84.

    Starboard Tack

    @WaterGirl:

    Still, I think Biden is more progressive than he generally gets credit for.

    Progressivish in philosophy, pragmatic in application.

  86. 86.

    Benw

    @zhena gogolia: the whole Democratic team was so so good.

    Mitt’s fortune partially comes from gutting the retirement funds of the companies he dismantles, leaving workers who thought they could retire in peace with pennies. He fucking evil, just the evil we were used to before T

  87. 87.

    Argiope

    @WaterGirl: Yeah.  It’s like it’s been curiously memory-holed, not followed up by the press and thus erased.  It’s kind of a big deal–either because it’s a systems failure full of human error that we’d damn better sort out stat, or because the order wasn’t given on purpose, to give the mob more time.

  89. 89.

    Joe Falco

    @guachi:

    I live in GA and I’m still amazed Warnock and Ossoff won.

    Me too. When I heard on the local NPR station that some Republican voters voted for one R but not the other, I had to laugh at how much we and the nation lucked out because of the R’s shooting themselves in the foot so much.

  90. 90.

    MomSense

    @zhena gogolia:

    We have an embarrassment of riches.  The Democrats have been compelling, brilliant, and persuasive.  In a sane world we wouldn’t have to sweat elections.  The Republicans are pathetic. They are all sadistic, craven, cynical assholes.

  97. 97.

    Anya

    I didn’t watch the whole thing but those I caught with were all impressive. Passionate, eloquent and talented. I don’t know why I never heard of Plaskett, Cicilline and Neguse. My take from this is how manufactured all the ridiculous coverage about the octogenarian not giving the young a chance to shine. I hope this puts an end to all that nonsense.  And I hope the media and even our side would stop obsessing over certain reps.

    Jamie Raskin was masterful. His presentation was powerful but very approachable. It was easy to follow and very emotional.

  99. 99.

    CaseyL

    I haven’t watched all of the trial – besides having to do job stuff, my new fridge was delivered this morning – but from what I have watched, I’ve been overwhelmed by the House Managers’ excellence.
    Not merely their intelligence and eloquence, but their strategy.  They are anticipating, and dismantling, every possible defense T*’s team could come up.
    Since we all know the GQP will acquit, I do hope someone in DoJ is working on follow-up federal charges related to the insurrection, and will take a cue from the House Managers’ presentation of evidence.​

  101. 101.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Omnes Omnibus: Oh, idunno, that’s a little harsh.  Lots of us who weren’t Wilmer fans also saw Joe as a centrist, and worried mightily that he’d compromise.  Heck, he was saying things that worried us!  Remember when he told a buncha rich donors that he’d turn things back to the way they were before Trump?  I mean, that was pretty worrisome.

    As it turned out, we were wrong: he wasn’t a “centrist”, but rather a “centroid-of-the party”-ist.  Which is … excellent.

  105. 105.

    Brachiator

    @Kent:

    Trump had a ferrel instinct for knowing that Biden was his biggest threat.

    Shows how weak Trump was. He could not do anything to undermine Biden’s appeal.  Also, Biden could not be baited by Trump’s petty taunts or attempts to brand some stupid nickname on him.

    In 2016, Trump ran on his phony celebrity status. People thought they knew who Trump was. Biden had a stronger, more authentic brand.

    And of course, by staking out the racist extreme, Trump was dead to most black voters.

    Of course, I don’t expect the GOP to learn from any of this.

    That’s what the whole Ukraine thing was about. And he was right.

    This was some weird, and weak, guilt by association bullshit. Trump foolishly believed that this was equal to all the suspicions about his own Russia connections. False equivalence bit Trump in the ass.

  106. 106.

    Kelly

    @TS (the original):

    Job approval by party – Biden (Jan-Feb 2021)

    Democrats 98
    Independents 61
    Republicans 11

    What a difference a year makes

    2020 New Hampshire Primary

    Sanders 25.6%

    Buttigieg 24.3%

    Klobuchar 19.7%

    Warren 9.2%

    Biden 8.4%

  107. 107.

    Jeffro

    @Joe Falco:The 98% among Democrats is the unity I’m enjoying the most!

    Along with the NeverTrumpers (both ‘original’ and ‘newly converted’) publicly seeking to form a right-wing alternative to trumpism.

    Dems in Array!  GOP seeking divorce from the GQP!!

    I need some McDonald’s stat ’cause I. Am. Lovin’. It.

  108. 108.

    schrodingers_cat

    @Kelly: Biden was not my first choice but I voted for him in the primaries on Super Tuesday. Mitten Man won my town but Biden came a close second and  BJ favorite was a distant third.

    Biden won the Commonwealth, though.

  109. 109.

    Brachiator

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Oh, idunno, that’s a little harsh. Lots of us who weren’t Wilmer fans also saw Joe as a centrist, and worried mightily that he’d compromise.

    The only people who worried about Biden’s centrism were political junkies. Not the majority of voters.

    Biden was kicking as in the March 3 primaries and was the presumptive nominee by April.

    From then on, it was a mater of getting on board or being left behind.

  110. 110.

    Jeffro

    @TS (the original):

    George W. Bush is the only other president in Gallup records dating back to the Eisenhower administration to receive an approval rating of 98% from his own party’s supporters. Bush registered several 98% and 99% approval ratings among Republicans in the days and weeks after the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks.

    Well, now it makes sense…the country has been brutally abused for four years and has had something like 200 9/11s this past year due to Covid-19 and trumpov’s horrid (non) handing of it.

    Also, the 87-point gap in Biden job approval by party is among the highest Gallup has measured for a president in any survey. The record is 92 percentage points for Trump last year before the presidential election.

    Would love to ask those trumpista poll responders: “what exactly has Biden done (other than dethrone your god-king) that you disappove of?”

    Beyond Democrats, Biden’s support is greatest among political liberals (92%) and non-Whites (80%). His approval rating is also close to 70% among young adults, political moderates, college graduates, city residents and lower-income Americans.  There is a double-digit gender gap in Biden’s job approval rating, with 63% of women versus 52% of men approving.

    Hmm…progressives, non-Whites, younger Americans, college graduates, and city residents…it’s almost like the majority of the country, the part that is growing by the day, is (finally!) being represented here…

  111. 111.

    Kent

    @schrodingers_cat:

    @Kelly: Biden was not my first choice but I voted for him in the primaries on Super Tuesday. Mitten Man won my town but Biden came a close second and  BJ favorite was a distant third.

    Biden won the Commonwealth, though.

    I campaigned for Warren here in WA state. But by the the time the WA primary came around it was obvious that Biden was the only choice so I voted for him willingly.  That was right in the middle of that period when Biden just kept winning all the primaries over Sanders by double digit margins, relentlessly.

  112. 112.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Brachiator:

    Biden was kicking as in the March 3 primaries and was the presumptive nominee by April.

    After the SC primary, yeah, he was the rpresumptive nominee, and for me all those worries became irrelevant.  But -before- the SC primary, I think a lot more people were worried about Biden than you’re crediting.  I know over at LG&M, lots of folks (including me) were worried.  And that’s not a Bernie-friendly place, just to be clear.

  113. 113.

    Jeffro

    @Brachiator:

    @Kent:

    @Chetan Murthy:

    I remember telling my RWNJ dad and brother early on that the Dem nominee would be either Biden or Warren, and they acted like I was a completely naive idiot.  Their Fox programming told them that the “woke Left” would never accept either of those two, hardy-har, you dumb lib.

    Then I heard how Howard Schultz was going to pull away all kinds of moderate Dems and (god help us) “socially liberal, fiscal conservatives”.  Idjit progressive!

    Then I heard how Bloomberg was going to buy his way to the nomination, in order to block Bernie.

    Then I heard how Bernie was going to start a 3rd party and royally fuck the Dems.

    Then I heard “ok, no 3rd party but DEFINITELY a brokered convention!”  And as an addendum to that, in a brokered convention, Hillz was (of course) conspiring to be the nominee.

    Um, whoops, oops, er, um, and whoops.  =)

    (and you can imagine what I heard after Biden was nominated…”too old”…”slipping”…”uninspiring”…and on and on and on)

    L to the OL  ;)

  114. 114.

    burnspbesq

    @Chetan Murthy:

    And look how great Bernie’s doing!

    Judging from what I’ve read and heard, his handling of the Tanden confirmation hearing was somewhere between first-rate and brilliant.

    No way I thought he had it in him.

  116. 116.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Chetan Murthy: I wasn’t alone in having misgivings about his stalwartness on gender issues [had that problem with Bernie, too] and also race.  But my initial support for female candidates was partially due to my misgivings about all the males and their untrustworthiness on these issues.  Turned out I was wrong, 100% wrong.

  119. 119.

    Richard

    @zhena gogolia:  I don’t think he’s evil either. He seems to have a conscience. His daughter Ronna is another story. Because of history, the state he represents will forever be entangled with Latter Day Saints and their church.

  123. 123.

    Brachiator

    @Chetan Murthy:

    But -before- the SC primary, I think a lot more people were worried about Biden than you’re crediting. I know over at LG&M, lots of folks (including me) were worried. And that’s not a Bernie-friendly place, just to be clear.

    I have never paid much attention to LG&M, so I don’t much know what they were rumbling about.

    I am not saying that Biden had it locked from the very beginning. But whether a Democratic Party candidate might be too centrist was only important to political junkies on the Internet. It was not the biggest concern of most ordinary voters.

  124. 124.

    Martin

    @Chetan Murthy: Oh, I didn’t doubt Biden’s trustworthiness there, but representation matters beyond trust. Women in the US deserve representation.

    My only doubt with Biden was that he could carry the intensity the Dems needed to win, which is why I thought a black woman was the best choice (still do). But that was either wrong, or having her in the VP slot was enough, or both.

    My only concern was a win. I could have cared less which non-Trump surnamed individual did that.

  128. 128.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Martin:

    Women in the US deserve representation.

    His (perceived) lack of trustworthiness on this was only party of why I preferred Warren, Harris, Gillibrand.  For sure, I’m *tired* of waiting for women to start running our country.  Sick and tired.

  138. 138.

    Elie

     

    The whole team was superior IMHO — Noguse, Plaskett were amazing but also Jamie Raskin who lead this amazing team.  They were ready and strong and my chest is stuck out to the wall with pride.  The case against T**** could not have been argued more effectively  —  Great things ahead for these stars….

  140. 140.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @David ? ☘The Establishment☘? Koch: I remember reading that over the years a lot of senators treated Bernie as if he was just an unimportant crank, and Biden always treated him with friendly respect (as it seems he treats everyone decently).  Bernie remembered that, and wouldn’t let his staff attack Biden nastily during the primaries. Sometimes nice guys finish first.

  141. 141.

    Beautifulplumage

    I haven’t read all the comments yet, but I really appreciated the short segments with each presenter focusing on a topic. I only got to see short stretches yesterday and very little today, so I need to catch up.

     

    I appreciate the comments on Rep Neguse as I had only a glimpse of one of his segments yesterday. I did catch a good part of Rep Plaskett & Dean and thought they were both good.

  142. 142.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    NYT: Who knew this, and when, in the month before the election? Donald, maybe Melanie, Pence, White House officials Ivanka and Jared. Mnuchin? Esper? Milley?

    President Donald J. Trump was sicker with Covid-19 in October than publicly acknowledged at the time, with extremely depressed blood oxygen levels at one point and a lung problem associated with pneumonia caused by the coronavirus, according to four people familiar with his condition.
    His prognosis became so worrisome before he was taken to Walter Reed National Military Medical Center that officials believed he would need to be put on a ventilator, two of the people familiar with his condition said.
    The people familiar with Mr. Trump’s health said he was found to have lung infiltrates, which occur when the lungs are inflamed and contain substances such as fluid or bacteria. Their presence, especially when a patient is exhibiting other symptoms, can be a sign of an acute case of the disease. They can be easily spotted on an X-ray or scan, when parts of the lungs appear opaque, or white.

    Also, I most certainly do hope former president flapdoodle is not one of those long-haul cases we read about, with significant problems with the lungs and other vital organs. I certainly do hope that.

    (and was that seriously just in October? Feels like at least a year ago)

  144. 144.

    Brachiator

    Totally OT, but I wanted to throw this in. Tax Filing via efile starts tomorrow, Feb 12.

    If you have all your stuff together, you might want to file early.

    A third stimulus check might be coming soon, and people whose incomes might have dropped compared to 2019 and who might qualify for a stimulus probably want to file at least before March. If getting a refund, consider direct deposit.

    And of course, if you roll your own taxes and do them by computer, be careful with respect to security.

  145. 145.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @NoraLenderbee: Huh. I wondered when Raskin introduced her as a fairly high-ranking member of Ashcroft DoJ

    ETA: also, I seem to recall she got some attention for her questioning on the House judiciary hearings in the first impeachment, but christ, that’s fuzzy too.

  146. 146.

    StringOnAStick

    I have watched about half of the proceedings, and will catch up tomorrow.  I want to see Neguese after having seen him speak at the CO D party convention before the the 2016 election; I think that was his first run for Congress.  He was impressive then and he’s the only candidate who spoke that day that I remember.

  147. 147.

    Mary G

    @NotMax:

    @dmsilev: This. I didn’t watch today, but yesterday Stacey Plaskett was my clear MVP for representatives, but really it was the people who wrote the script and edited the videos who were the best. I wonder if they got some documentary makers/editors to help, because there was a clear story line all the way through.

  149. 149.

    Another Scott

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: The first Biden-T debate was on September 29.  3 days later (October 2) Donnie was at Walter Reed.

    He didn’t look well to me in this debate video – his skin has a weird shine (independent of his usual makeup), like he’s sweating but not in a normal (nervous) way – note that Biden looks fine.

    I’m not at all surprised that he was quite sick once he got to WR. Like BoJo, he believed that only “bad” people get sick and refused to accept reality.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  150. 150.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Hoodie: I’ve grown up a lot politically in the past 12 years. I knew race was a problem in the US but Obama’s presidency really opened my eyes. Honestly, I am not sure race is fixable in this country. Obama did pretty much everything right trying to help working class white people and still couldn’t get their votes. Anyhow, between Obama’s naivete(for lack of a better term) in dealing with McConnell and Trumpov’s utter incompetence I wanted a normal old fashioned glad handling but ruthless politician. Also a lawyer. I don’t think I’ll ever vote for a POTUS who isn’t either a lawyer or somebody with decades of experience in government.

  151. 151.

    dww44

    @Kent: The same thing occurred to me last week that somehow Trump zeroed in on his most likely opponent and we got Impeachment # 1.  This man’s gonna be all over the history books, with, I hope, a whole lot of asterisks by his name as the exception to the rule for all other Presidents.

  152. 152.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Another Scott: I listened to a good part of the debate on the radio and then watched the rest of it on teevee. My first reaction to seeing him on teevee was ‘What is wrong with him,? He looks ill.’ A couple of friends also mentioned the same thing.

  154. 154.

    Ivan X

    I made the mistake of reading the comments section on some awful NRO post indirectly linked in one of the earlier threads. Glutton for punishment, I guess. We live in alternate universes. Apparently those people think that because there’s no way to definitively prove (presumably via ESP) that Trump intended what happened, or knew what was happening, there’s no case, it’s all circumstantial. The real high-minded ones are suggesting that well, if the Democrats had only impeached for dereliction of duty instead then they might have a case, but they overreached with incitement, tsk tsk, so the Senate will just have to acquit. It’s all bad faith because there’s no universe in which they, nor 17 Republican senators, would ever consider a Democrat’s argument to have merit.

  155. 155.

    Ivan X

    @Brachiator: Every time I wander over to LG&M I’m struck by feelings of “that banana colored background is hideous” and “these people are not much fun” and “I don’t want to think about Warren Zevon every time I visit this site.” So then I stop going for a while.

  156. 156.

    Another Scott

    We’ve all heard about the various COVID-19 vaccines. We’re finally getting some good news about treatments. ScienceMag:

    World’s largest COVID-19 drug trial identifies second compound that cuts risk of death
    By Kai KupferschmidtFeb. 11, 2021 , 3:30 PM

    Science’s COVID-19 reporting is supported by the Heising-Simons Foundation.

    The world’s largest trial of COVID-19 drugs has produced more good news: The anti-inflammatory drug tocilizumab cut the death risk of people hospitalized with the disease, reduced their need for a mechanical ventilator, and shortened time spent in the hospital, investigators of the United Kingdom’s Recovery trial announced today at a press conference. A preprint about the data has been published on medRxiv.

    “This is an incredibly significant result,” says Athimalaipet Ramanan, a rheumatologist at the University of Bristol who was not involved in the study but sits on the steering committee of a tocilizumab trial in India. “This is probably only the second drug that has an impact on mortality,” she says, after the steroid dexamethasone. If the data pan out, it’s “fantastic news,” adds Jason Pogue, a pharmacist at the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor, and president of the Society of Infectious Diseases Pharmacists. “I think this will (and I think it should) lead to more widespread use in the United States,” Pogue wrote in an email.

    But tocilizumab is about 100 times more expensive than dexamethasone, raising questions once again about how to make sure populations across the world can benefit from scientific progress against COVID-19.

    […]

    In the trial, 2022 patients were randomly allocated to receive tocilizumab and compared with 2094 others randomized to receive usual care; 82% of the patients also received dexamethasone. After 28 days, 596 patients in the tocilizumab group had died, compared with 694 in the control group, a reduction of the mortality rate from 33% to 29%. That means on average 25 patients have to be treated with the drug to save one life.

    That may seem like a small effect compared with that of dexamethasone, but “a 4% absolute reduction in mortality is not marginal,” says physician Ashish Jha, dean of Brown University’s School of Public Health. Dexamethasone’s success may have raised unrealistic expectations about what other drugs can do, Jha says: “Those results were so fantastic that in some ways, it ruined it for people.” The benefit of tocilizumab came on top of the steroid’s, the analysis showed.

    […]

    There’s still an awful lot more work that needs to be done, but it’s good to finally hear some more news about even slightly effective treatments.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  157. 157.

    Comrade Colette

    Can anyone tell me how to find a clip of Ted Lieu’s presentation from yesterday (Wednesday)? My google-fu has failed me. TIA.

  160. 160.

    wenchacha

    @Chetan Murthy: I remember the discussion with my dad; we were both sure we didn’t want Biden to be the nominee! If course, that was before 2020. I am deliriously happy with Joe, now. I like to imagine Dad would feel the same.

    The presentation from Democratic House Mgrs. was truly impressive, articulate, well-reasoned. The contrast between their work and that of the defence is clear, at least to me, and probably to many people ending their registration as Republican.

    It would be embarrassing to have to support such mealy-mouthed speeches. That would require some sense of shame, interest in objective reality, and some other intrinsic stuff they lack.

  161. 161.

    J R in WV

    @Argiope:

    @WaterGirl: Yeah.  It’s like it’s been curiously memory-holed, not followed up by the press and thus erased.  It’s kind of a big deal–either because it’s a systems failure full of human error that we’d damn better sort out stat, or because the order wasn’t given on purpose, to give the mob more time.

    Actually, in the last few days before January 6th, that other day that will live forever in infamy, Trump posted quite a number of guys no one every heard of into top level jobs within the Defense department.

    Those were the people who had the job of keeping the National Guard away from the insurrection. I hope they’re all having trouble sleeping at night. They had one job, to protect the insurrection from the federal forces needed to put down an insurrection, and did not do it.

    I will be shocked if many of those guys aren’t indicted for participation in the insurrection, under orders from Trump to protect his mob at the Capitol. And/Or lying to the FBI about their orders and activities that day.

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