This big article at the NYT raises some questions for me:
Anna Ruch had never met Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo before encountering him at a crowded New York City wedding reception in September 2019. Her first impression was positive enough.
The governor was working the room after toasting the newlyweds, and when he came upon Ms. Ruch, now 33, she thanked him for his kind words about her friends. But what happened next instantly unsettled her: Mr. Cuomo put his hand on Ms. Ruch’s bare lower back, she said in an interview on Monday.
When she removed his hand with her own, Ms. Ruch recalled, the governor remarked that she seemed “aggressive” and placed his hands on her cheeks. He asked if he could kiss her, loudly enough for a friend standing nearby to hear. Ms. Ruch was bewildered by the entreaty, she said, and pulled away as the governor drew closer.
“I was so confused and shocked and embarrassed,” said Ms. Ruch, whose recollection was corroborated by the friend, contemporaneous text messages and photographs from the event. “I turned my head away and didn’t have words in that moment.”
Before we get into the article, let me state first and foremost that I have said for years, and continue to believe, that it is a national priority to keep Andrew Cuomo out of the White House. He is, in my opinion, an authoritarian and a bully, and like Bloomberg, that means sometimes his more liberal positions makes me find common cause with him, but he is still a fucking fascist. That was particularly clear during the covid early days, when his authoritarianism was appreciated in the leadership vacuum created by the White House. Second, there is ZERO doubt in my mind about the accuracy of the two previously reported allegations of sexual harassment, and I have no doubt there will be many more of them coming out in the next weeks and months.
Having said all that, I don’t know why this story is being pushed other than add to the narrative. Ruch was not his subordinate, he was not in a position of power, and he asked her if he could kiss her. That’s asking for consent. That’s what you want men to do. Obviously it made her feel uncomfortable and awkward, and he’s a cad for doing so, but asking someone if you can kiss them and then not doing anything when they say no strikes me as EXACTLY what you want men to do these days.
Am I out in left field on this?
Also, too, old bachelor dude at wedding reception, this is not unusual behavior. If it’s being used as evidence of a wider pattern of behavior with no boundaries, maybe it’s relevant?
We have our own problems, Gavin was spotted at a Mexican restaurant recently, indicating a worrisome propensity for public eating.
Obviously he needs to be recalled, is yesterday too soon? //
I think you’re missing the big picture. He didn’t ask before putting his hand on her bare lower back, and he complained when she removed it. He then put his hands on her cheeks, also without asking. That he bothered to ask before trying to kiss her doesn’t say he understands asking for consent; it says he knew he was already over the line but was going to keep pushing anyway.
No.. Cuomo is a creep and a bully, and I’m pleased that the incidents will be investigated, but that particular incident doesn’t add to the discussion. Guy at wedding was creepy, news at eleven.
Villago Delenda Est
Al Franken was driven out of office for so much less.
He was spotted indoors without a mask in an area that wasn’t legally open for indoor dining. It’s not the first time he’s been caught eating somewhere he wasn’t supposed to be, and it gives the impression he thinks the public health rules that apply to everyone else don’t apply to him. I don’t think it’s grounds for a recall, but I’m definitely voting for someone else in the 2022 gubernatorial primary.
Oh hey, we all, and I mean EVERYBODY, knew where this trixie was headed after her WH gig. Surprised they waited ’til March.
We have a violent white-supremacist insurrection going on, and their leader is alive and well in Mar-a-Lago. Focus, people.
@Villago Delenda Est: Okay, what if we put Al Franken in as governor of New York? I’d be down with that.
Welcome to the world of women:
And if I behaved inappropriately outside of work, my employer is entitled to fire me. Not sure if this rises to that level of inappropriateness, but why do guys feel entitled to even ask in such a situation?
this event is being pushed because there is a photo of it, that makes Cuomo look like a lecherous old man.
@trollhattan: I think the official term for her work is “republican cheerleader”.
She won’t have the pom-poms, but everything else about it is right. Her job will be to look pretty and say whatever she needs to in order to push Republicans and hurt the opposing team.
ETA: This is not to disparage sports cheerleaders, who work a hard and skillful job with little pay and very little respect. They work a lot harder than McEnany will, and for much less money and social position.
I have no use at all for Cuomo, but to stretch the f-word to cover him when the real deals now walk openly among us does the discourse no favors.
To your last paragraph, yes, Cuomo asked for consent, but I think what puts it over the line for a lot of people is the visual—the photograph of him pawing her cheeks as he’s asking. That’s a bit of an invasion in itself.
Plus the “Can I kiss you?” came after he was rebuffed on the hand on the back, about which he was aware enough to crack about her being “aggressive.” He wasn’t just some clueless old fuck asking for a peck on the cheek and getting misunderstood.
@MisterForkbeard: “Live from New York, it’s Governor Franken!”
@Roger Moore: Yup, this. He touched her without consent. When she removed his hands, he touched her again. And in that context, he asked if he could kiss her.
Repeatedly touching without consent is absolutely not “EXACTLY what I want me to do.”
Yeah, the guy is single, he was at a non-job related function and behaved in a boorish way. The only relevance I see in this is it adds to a pattern making the job related accusations more believable.
I don’t endorse his behavior at this private function and as a man the same age, if I were single, would never conduct myself this way. Heck, I would not conduct myself that way married either.
Maybe we can multitask.
But here’s a little something for the insurrection file:
A) I have an onion about this, which I’ll express below. But,
B) I am a creepy old white dude myself, older than Cuomo even. So,
C) my opinion is far less interesting than the opinion of women and other people who might be victimized by creepy old white dudes. Far better to listen to what they say than to me.
That said, I agree with JC that this does not rise to the level of sexual harassment. It’s gross and tacky and he should be ashamed of himself. But she was not a subordinate, and he stopped when she said no.
It is also — and this is important — part of an emerging pattern, and suggests that there may have been many, many other occasions when he tried shit like this. Did he always take ‘no’ for no? Were they never his subordinates? Did he never persist? The more we see, the less I can believe that he has always simply dropped it after he got a ‘no,’ as he seems to have done here. Maybe, but my doubts are rising.
Let me point out a related issue:
I am happy to throw Cuomo to the wolves. Never have liked that guy (though I have voted for him several times, here in NYS).
But I really, really do not want to articulate a rationale for forcing him to resign that might come back and bite us with Biden. I do not think Biden is as gross or as predatory. But Biden, too, has gotten a bit handsy in the past. But we have not yet heard anything rising to the level of what Cuomo has done.
If we do, do you really want to say he has to follow the Cuomo Precedent, and walk the plank? I do not.
As valuable as the Me Too movement is (very, very valuable), I think it is more valuable if it attends to distinctions and differences, and does not lump everything into the same category. Some behavior is worse, and some behavior is less bad. Some behavior deserves firing, and some deserves only public shaming. We need to observe these differences, or we’re going to lose some people we don’t want to lose, who don’t deserve it.
Yes, you ARE in left field on this, John. The asking for the kiss wasn’t the problem, it was all the other contact.
I have never put my hands on a woman’s face like that unless we already had something going on. Ditto for touching a woman’s bare back like that.
@JPL: I disagree. A guy who went right past the limits of appropriate conduct with women who worked for him, also went right through those limits with women who didn’t. Sure seems like variations on a theme, rather than something completely different.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
that is my take, also, at the very least. As she says, he put his hands on her, twice. The second time after she made it pretty clear she wasn’t interested in him touching her. And when you’re the high profile governor, one who is seeking a higher profile, and you’re at a wedding full of political people– I believe the young woman is an Obama WH alumna, and worked for the Biden campaign– you’re not really off duty. You’re a former HUD secretary, a high-priced Manhattan lawyer and the son of a governor from thirty years ago, it’s a different story, a Page Six story. Cuomo aggressively seeks to be national public figure. He should be smarter than this.
(as to the Newsom recall: should I be taking that more seriously than I am?)
@zhena gogolia: Excusing inappropriate conduct and/or illegal behavior by leadership on the grounds that there’s a greater evil out there is an argument for fascism.
We can critique and hold our leaders accountable for a wide range of behaviors, from inappropriate to egregiously illegal, and push in the wider democratic struggle.
Hey, Texas is done with the Covid, y’all. Abbott will lift all restrictions starting next week. Even the Catholics.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly, Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
Also, he’s the governor of New York, not some random dude at a wedding. Even if he wasn’t her superior at work, that title brings with it an awful lot of authority. I can see how anybody might be intimidated by that.
@trollhattan: I’ve typed it before, everything is big in Texas, especially the stupid.
You’re way off base John. He touched her without consent, she moved his hand off her body, and then he reached out and grabbed her face. The picture is so striking because it very clearly shows her terror at the situation. It is absolutely not “what you want men to do these days.” I don’t think that “don’t grab a stranger’s face” is a particularly difficult bar to clear, but apparently a lot of men are willing to excuse it for some reason.
Not that Cuomo isn’t important. Creepy sexual behavior and all. But maybe this deserves equal time?
James E Powell
Maybe I’m reading this wrong, but he was not eating at the Mexican restaurant. He was doing PR with George Lopez in a restaurant that got a relief grant.
It won’t matter. The right-wing propaganda machine will make him out to be evil, most people will adopt their facts without questioning, and – who knows? – maybe we will get another two term Republican governor. Sounds great!
That photo is disgusting, and her expression to me says that she is scared.
This topic has been covered by several posts in the last two days. Is it really the biggest national story we could be talking about?
Mike in NC
@trollhattan: Her role will be to lie like a rug, just as before.
I don’t see anywhere in the article where she replied, “Yes,” to his “Can I kiss you?”
I find it very interesting that more than one man has said, “But he asked permission!” without bothering to notice that she didn’t actually consent.
That’s not being a gentleman. That’s being a creep.
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
The Newsom recall has a two-step hurdle, the first being sufficient verified signatures* within the time limit to qualify for a ballot, and the second, getting enough votes in a state with more independents than registered Republicans.
He’s not very popular but I’m not [yet] concerned about it going forward. Heck, he’s up for reelection in a year and a half and will surely have a primary challenge or three.
*IIRC the # of signatures needed is set based on a prior election turnout, and both 2018 and 202 were off the charts so the qualifying bar is a lot higher than typical. Good thing, because it keeps the number of propositions down.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Biden: Enough vaccines for every adult in the US by end of May (MSNBC chyron)
adult school employees, educators and staff, to have at least one shot by the end of March
Four Seasons Total Landscaping mistermix
No, you’re off base. When she took his hand off of her bare back, that was the “don’t touch me” signal. Grabbing her face and asking for a kiss, is way too much.
Also, I have a daughter and she has a number of female friends in their mid-20s. My wife and I often have drinks with them in social settings, parties, etc. (We’ve always had friendships with her friends, long story.) I would never, ever touch them on their bare back. A short hello hug and a good bye hug are the limit. Never would I ever ever ever ask them for a kiss. And I’ve known some of these young women since they were 3-4 years old.
That all said, it just goes to the narrative that he’s a creep, it isn’t a reason to resign. The way he treated his employees is more important.
@trollhattan: So Texas got everyone vaccinated? I’m impressed. //
It confirms a pattern of behavior and it is documented.
@Roger Moore: Agreed.
I think this is a good point.
I can see political foes working hard to use this kind of thing to their advantage.
I think you have to look at behavior that is possibly criminal in a different light than behavior that is possibly inappropriate.
James E Powell
They will not have any problem getting the signatures because they are paying for them. Reports are that they’ve already got enough.
The difference from the Gray Davis recall is that a lot of Democrats hated Davis and Arnold was being enthusiastically promoted by every local news show in the state. I would expect Ds to rally for the cause and for the Rs to vomit up one of their lunatics.
@James E Powell:
Sure, but how many of them are VALID signatures?
Local news shows? Arnold announced he was running on the Tonight Show.
LOTS of signatures are found not valid, typically. The gatherers are paid per sig, so are…motivated to collect as many as possible with few pesky questions.
Not feeling the Faulcmentum yet? :-)
@trollhattan: Just waiting for Issa to announce.
It’s short left field, but yes, you are definitely not positioned correctly for the hot corner.
Must say, they’re quite straightforward about the game.
James E Powell
I guess we’ll find out. I’m not going to take anything for granted.
James E Powell
I’m not talking about his announcement, I’m talking about the coverage during the course of the campaign. His appearances were covered by local news shows in the manner usually reserved for appearances by Santa Claus, only they were more laudatory.
Not the onions again.
I was clearly trying to make an onion pi, and I took the pi out too soon.
Though, the echoes of Grandpa Simpson wearing an onion in his belt are not entirely irrelevant.
Sigh…basically what I’m saying is that my edit button needs an edit button.
Let the investigation play out.
Last time I had onions, took six weeks to clear up.
Without going into whether or not Cuomo actually did the bad stuff we’ve been hearing, this whole thing really reminds me of exactly what happened to Al Franken. I mean here you have ostensible Democrats trying harder to toss Cuomo overboard, just as they did with Franken, than Republicans.
I have to say I am underwhelmed. Cuomo should be punished for lying about Covid deaths. Cuomo should face some repercussians for pervy behavior. Does it merit resignation? I don’t know but I do know I already am not trusting those who want to toss Cuomo under the bus.
Okay, I’ve checked with my women friends and we all agree that what we mean by consent culture is NOT for men we have just met to instantly ask if they can do intimate things to us.
Also we are against the un-asked for touching and face-grabbing, but even without that; please do NOT ask women you have just met socially if they want to kiss, fondle, or otherwise love you up… unless you are at a sex club, an orgy, or Folsom Fair, then absolutely ask away.
Hope that clears things up. Sigh.
I’m pretty sure that role will be the same as the rest of her broadcast cohorts: Liar.
After all, it’s what she’s
@CorgiMom: thank you! Why the hell do people think it’s appropriate to repeatedly touch a complete stranger?! And then he calls her aggressive when she removed his damn hand from her back. Being a political figure does Not give you the right to touch people.
smedley the uncertain
@MisterForkbeard: Me too.
I don’t think you’re out of left field, but it does show that he escalates when rebuffed which is extremely bad for men. While it makes some women uncomfortable, it’s pretty acceptable in the course of our normal social mores for a man to end up with his hand on a woman’s bare back. But to not only push the issue, but to aggressively put your hands on a person’s face, when your hand is removed? That would make me extremely uncomfortable because of what it suggests about saying “no” to this man.
To be clear I think it adds valuable context to the other two accusations but I don’t think it’s a serious scandal on its own (though he SHOULD apologize).
@Villago Delenda Est: That was wrong then, and it would be wrong now. Let the process play out.
Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes
My uncaring take is different – what kind of fame-seeking asshole invites a governor to her wedding if he wasn’t well known to her? And what is her motivation now?
Cathie from Canada
I agree with John Cole on this view of the incident.
And once again US democrats are seeing a Democratic Governor with a national profile crashing and burning.
Odd how that keeps happening.
Anybody know what Karl Rove is up to these days?
McEnema can probably borrow Michelle Malkin’s Pom Pom’s. It’s not like she’s using them for anything these days.
@rikyrah: It’s a huge distraction, and it’s not even REMOTELY in the top 10 biggest problems we have.
@Steeplejack: is that like “I have a friend who might be pregnant…?”
Asking for consent is certainly the right option, but, is this the story where he put his hands on her (facial) cheeks first? It shouldn’t have gotten that far. Maybe if he’d laid his hands on her shoulders – if she said “I’d have been scared if he’d had a tight grip on my shoulders – but his hands were just laying there” – you could excuse this with “he asked for consent.”
This is a delicate area. No one knows what another person is thinking, but, there are signs and cues, right? If I go to a woman and want a hug, I want a firm hug that resembles a number 1 more than the letter A, but I want a hug, not to feel up her tits with my chest, or to grab her ass “accidentally.” Well, in normal circumstances, that will probably be apparent from cues that I couldn’t describe. After all, I never have to ask “is that guy zeroing in on me just being friendly, or am I getting a really bad harassment vibe?”
This is the gray area where harassers work. The guy who makes sure every woman he hugs can tell he has an erection, also insists “I just wanted a hug, what’s the big deal?”
So I’m not saying that touching her face was, you know, *evil*, in and of itself. But if his intent wasn’t innocent, it probably showed. And, you know, it strikes me as *really* intimate. I know some women who have enjoyed my touch, who would have accepted me feeling them up (in a make-out context) before they’d have felt comfortable with my putting both hands on her face like that, just out of the blue.
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes: it sounds from the original article like she was a guest at the wedding. Not that it was Her wedding.
@Cathie from Canada: or we’re once again seeing an unrepentant jazzhole being held accountable. So gross at what is tolerable so long as it’s the other team
@Le Comte de Monte Cristo, fka Edmund Dantes:
You seem to be under the mistaken impression that the woman in question was the bride?
I was run out of this place for banging on about the IDC last year when everyone was fellating Cuomo for his daily press conferences. He spent the better part of a decade propping up a Republican majority in the State Senate so he could look serious and bipartisan, but we just have to give him the sort of loyalty he’s never shown his own party. Fucker would probably pardon Trump if he could spin it as sticking it to deBlasio.
There are a million reasons to throw Cuomo under the bus and him being a sexual predator is just the most important one.
@Served: please…unless or until Cuomo is putting kids in cages or bombing abortion clinics or denying the humanity of black people, it’s a fucking far cry from fascism. Being a bit of a Pervy creep is pretty much how men have behaved since- forever. These distractions seem to come up at the most peculiar times.
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Sigh. He was at the restaurant talking to the owner about reopening indoor dining, not eating. Newsom can be tone-deaf, but he’s not *that* stupid as to be caught out doing that again. All the headlines across the state were like “NEWSOM CAUGHT IN RESTAURANT AGAIN!!!! (50 pt bold) meeting with manager not eating (9pt, barely legible).
The story of Cuomo’s behavior with the wedding guest goes on a bit further than the request for a kiss and the negative response. The Guardian coverage reports that his lips brushed her cheek. From TPM: “Ruch said she later asked a friend if the governor’s lips had touched her face while she was trying to dodge his kiss; the friend told her he had kissed her cheek.”
@trollhattan: It often ends conversations when I make my pi onions clear…
@Madeleine: honestly since the governor of my current state has decided not enough ppl froze to death so let’s have a Covid party, I really don’t give a fuck about this Cuomo BS. Yes he was slimy- a lot of rich and powerful ppl are but he didn’t assault anyone and these women will survive. I used to care, but now we have a choice between imperfect ppl who believe in government or an entire party that wants us to be Somalia in 1995 esp if that means they can kill us off without consequence.
I’ll pile on and say “yes”.
He was/is the Governor. Not some used car salesman. He’s got power over people who aren’t his direct reports. He directly represents the people of the state. He was way, way over the line.
I notice there is a bar with lots of liquor bottles in the background of the picture. Maybe he was drinking too much, maybe he was drunk. Even if he were, it’s not an excuse. He’s always on the clock when he’s in that job and out in public.
I’m reminded of a wedding reception I went to in high school, helping out a band that was playing there. There was one obnoxious guy there who got increasingly drunk and loud. Before the band’s set was done he stabbed the groom in the leg with a knife, blood everywhere, etc., etc. We left VERY QUICKLY.
People have an obligation to control themselves when interacting with others. Especially when alcohol is involved. Especially with those of lower status. Especially when they hold offices of public trust.
NY government will not be endangered if he resigns. He needs to go.
My view as a female is that this is absolutely over the line, and not even close. Once she took his hand off her back he was not allowed to touch her again. Doing so was a clear violation. Grabbing the face of a woman he just met like that is unreasonable, as is asking for a kiss loudly enough her friend could hear.
It is newsworthy because the incident was caught on camera, thereby adding credibility to the other reports. That is a photograph of a scared woman trying to figure out how to best defuse the situation. She’s asking herself if she needs to give in so he goes away, if she can stand firm and chances are high she doesn’t want to make a scene at her friend’s wedding. All of this mental effort is going on within a second, and most women have had to make these calculations.
@Madeleine: quelle horror- idgaf. Are you a Millenial because as a Gen Xer I can tell you most women my age have faced much worse but we didn’t use our experiences as a political hit job.
@lowtechcyclist: I mean what else do you need beyond the photo and this response: “I was so confused and shocked and embarrassed,”
The “question” wasn’t a question. It was an old, old dominance trick to test how far he could intimidate the other person. Andy can go fuck himself with a flensing space. What is it with the famous political sons of famous political fathers? Maybe my memory is going, but I don’t remember Mario pulling this shit. Likewise George and Mitt Romney.
@Ksmiami: The standard needs to be higher than whether these women will survive. A governor can’t be trusted to behave around younger women. That’s a significant problem.
Gov. Abbott deciding he doesn’t care if us Texans die is a much bigger problem, but one does not negate the other.
My County Judge deciding to immediately get rid of the mask mandate so as not to cause confusion is also a ridiculous problem.
@Cameron: I’d say most men of political import probably had side affairs etc…it’s just under more scrutiny now due to awareness and of course camera phones
@Kineslaw: I agree. He shouldn’t have touched her back, shouldn’t have called her (mockingly or belittlingly) “aggressive” for pushing his hand away (she should have just accepted his touch smilingly), he shouldn’t himself have been even more aggressive by grabbing her cheeks when he’d been rebuffed once, and (again mockingly, not sincerely) “asked” if he could kiss her (clearly intending to try whatever she replied). I think he DID try and she turned her head.
If you’re at a friend’s wedding, you shouldn’t have to put up with that from drunken uncles or whoever, let alone from the Governor. He was offended by her first rebuff so he pushed harder to show his power. It’s a long way from sincerely asking if you can kiss someone you’re dating or interested in.
@Kineslaw: I’m not disagreeing with you, but after Franken, can we just investigate before we crucify an effective governor during a pandemic?
@Ksmiami: so your take is that women have suffered worse assaults and that these millennials should just STFU BC IDGAF? Cool. Cool, cool cool.
@Kineslaw: my issue though is once again the media jumps on the sex story because it’s low brow and uncomplicated meanwhile giving a pass to Abbott and the murdering misfits because well both sides…this isn’t theoretical to me. My so is nearly 60 and I haven’t seen my aging parents in almost a year. I’m sorry Cuomo was inappropriate and I hope he’s held accountable/Re taught but my capacity to care is de minimus in the face of keeping myself and my family alive
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Ksmiami: there was a time I knew the name of GHW Bush’s reputed long-time mistress, Jennifer Something. She was roughly his own age– as I recall they met through Jim Baker, the consigliere. He wasn’t trying to get junior staffers half his age to firm up his sagging…. ego
ETA: I do wish there were some form of accountability short of resignation and the end of a political career. Not that I much care about Cuomo, but I miss Franken.
@Ksmiami: If Democrats can exact some concessions, including a public statement that he won’t run for re-election, I’d be okay with that.
I do not believe that just because previous generations had it worse we should minimize what the current generation has to deal with.
@oldster: particularly since it is really only us that will lose people. Much graver offenses go unpunished on the side that flaunts shamelessness as a point of pride.
@Kineslaw: I just don’t want this taking up air time and I believe that men who make inappropriate passes can be retrained as that is still a far cry from assault. If he fesses up and apologizes can we move on ?
I can’t conceive of someone not having a problem with Cuomo’s behavior regarding this particular instance. What was his hand doing on her bare back in the first place (or anywhere on her body, for that matter)? And then to continue pressing the issue after she made it clear she wasn’t interested?
This is not boorish behavior. To me boorish behavior would be something like if he kept trying to make obnoxious jokes about getting her into bed, maybe continued double entendres after she made it clear she wasn’t receptive to his advances. Once you start putting your hands on someone you have gone well beyond boorishness.
@Another Scott: I am really surprised. You are the “eyes on the prize” guy. This is a total distraction.
He’s an arrogant ass and seems to be a sexist pig. Do I have a problem with his behavior here? Of course I do.
But giving the Rs another scalp only encourages them to go for yet another Democratic scalp, and another and another.
We are letting the entire Cuomo-covid conversation be about how he handled one statistic – nursing homes – yet we ignore all the R governors who fucked up everything covid. On purpose!
We are letting the Cuomo conversation be about piggish behavior – for god’s sake, BJ didn’t spend this many days talking about all the women T**** raped and assaulted.
This is more important than the recent insurrection?
I truly don’t get it.
@AntiCliche: exactly we are in a battle of inches and just can’t afford to give given the stakes.
@Ksmiami: John’s post was about Ms Ruch’s experience. His report ended short of the fact that Cuomo persisted, and, having read comments that did not add the information, I decided that, for the record, the fact that there was a kiss should be somewhere in the thread.
As to me, I am a 71 year old who has experienced her share of this sort of behavior and worse. That little scene bespeaks an individual with a disturbing will to dominate those around him, and a person who, when called on his behavior, escalates. I don’t think it is as important as the disastrous situation for so many people in Texas, a comment (now two) regarding the topic of a post, among many comments on many topics, is not that much. And maybe I have reason to think that such dominating behavior has implications beyond what you apparently consider negligible, because many people have experienced it.
@WaterGirl: thank you.
@Madeleine: as with any of these allegations, I am now very leery of GOP tricks and the New York Times scalping our own at a time when there are so many life and death issues. It feels like a distraction campaign sorry
Exactly. She is not merchandise that you get to “handle” before asking consent. Jeezus John, get a clue
@Ksmiami: Next thing you know, before the ink is dry on his papers to run for governor of Texas, someone will come forward to say Beto pushed her too hard for sex when they were teenagers. Or whatever.
Biden is right. We are in a war for the soul of the nation. We are in a war to keep our democracy.
We need to keep some perspective here.
@namekarB: except now instead of an in-depth investigation on what Abbott’s pronouncement means, we have breathless CNN editorials on how Cuomo is the biggest Democratic monster ever. These are days I feel that our nation is in its twilight
@WaterGirl: I don’t expect people to be perfect but I try to judge them on what their overall contribution is… Has Cuomo saved more people and been effective- yes, has he possibly been a schmuck – yes, but most people have demons and strife and if we blast every one out of the water for every mistake, we will lose everything
It occurred to me during Cuomo’s COVID press conferences that he could potentially use them as a platform to position himself for a run at the WH. He could be America’s next Mayor! He has a unique position in that he could run to the right of a centrist Democrat who would be painted as fiscally irresponsible for trying to clean up the Orange Dump left on the WH lawn. Or he could run to the left of the former orange dump guy if he was still around in 2024.
I also figured he could get knocked off his pedestal pretty quickly if he didn’t keep his nose absolutely clean. Sooner or later someone would decide to ‘remove’ him from the equation if he looked like a clear front runner in 2024. Looks like someone decided to take him out early and not rely on the voters to tell him to f*ck right the hell off. Maybe Bloomberg is considering a run at Biden and wanted to clear the field? Who knows. It all smells like fishy politics. Running him out of office does nothing for the women that still have to put up with terrible harassing asshole bosses. Since I was never going to vote for him, I’m kind of ambivalent about his political fate. I do think it should be left up to the voters who put him in office and not the court of public opinion and cheap tabloid rumor mongers.
@WaterGirl: As a result of Republican malfeasance my kids inherit a future of strife and uncertainty
Battery: a physical act that results in harmful or offensive contact with another person without that person’s consent.
Seems a lawyer like Andrew would try and avoid battery.
@WaterGirl: I think that the nursing home death vs hospital death accounting is a distraction, but I’m no expert. I don’t think the politics works against him, but I dunno.
As I said a day or so ago, in MM’s first thread on this, I’m torn. I agree that the GOP will continue to weaponize our strengths (having actual standards) against us while they use every trick they can to get what they want.
But, as with the Franken case, this isn’t going to go away. (Senate ethics investigations have a history of dragging out a year or more. I doubt that any investigation by James will be over in only a few weeks.)
Yeah, there’s a danger that if the GOP somehow claims Cuomo’s head as a victory then they’ll be emboldened to go after Biden again.
But they will go after Biden anyway. We know that.
If Cuomo leaving would flip the state to the GOP, or cause the GOP to flip the NY State supreme court, or similar, then I would be more reticent about it.
To be clear, I’m probably about 60:40 wanting him to go based on what we know and suspect now.
I was an early yeller calling for Northam to go. (1984 wasn’t that long ago, etc., etc.). I was wrong about that. I may be wrong about Cuomo – maybe he can atone and do good things while he’s finishing up his term.
Here’s a simple rule for anybody. Don’t. Be. Touching. Or getting in someone’s personal space. Why is that so difficult? Didn’t his mama raise him right?
That young lady showed way more restraint than I would’ve. Once a guy got too close behind me (in a bar) and he got a sharp, forceful elbow to the gut – and I did that automatically. Cuomo should’ve gotten a knee to his nuts. Maybe then he would learn to stop doing stupid shit.
Bill in Section 147
First, he inappropriately, and uninvited, touched her back. Then he put his hands on her face and while holding it he asked to kiss her.
I hate being casually ‘touched’ by people. Especially on the face.
I don’t think Cuomo can be “forced” to resign, just persuaded to. I don’t believe he will be persuaded. Cuomo might not run for reelection, though, even if state law allows.
I imagine proximity affects how one views which problem is bigger. Citizen’s of New York might disagree about which is the bigger problem.
However, yeah, both are problems and should not be a media either/or decision about which problem gets more clicks/views
Capone went to prison for tax evasion. If this is what it takes to hamstring Cuomo, good.
From what I’m seeing, Cuomo grabbed her by the head, both hands, without consent, and then asking consent for something of a sexual nature even if it was “just a kiss.”
SOB should have been punted in the balls for what he did. I’ll settle for him resigning in favor of Hillary Clinton taking over the governorship.
Ella in New Mexico
No you are NOT out in left field on this. Like I said yesterday in another thread, Democrats REALLY need to CTFD with allegations of sexual impropriety and stop equating boorish or annoying behavior with sexual harassment and/or sexual assault.
We need to understand that there really is a spectrum of these behaviors, with one end requiring serious actions including civil or criminal investigations and/or penalties. The other end, unfortunately is likely always to be with us to some degree, no matter how much we socialize people to respect other people’s boundaries.
Until that changes, people who get these kinds of advances need to feel free to use the good old power of shaming, out loud, in no uncertain terms, right then and there, giving the unequivocal message that it’s US who have power over our own bodies, and if you mess with it, you’re asking for it.
@Villago Delenda Est: Al Franken was driven out of office for so much less. And he shouldn’t have been.
The look on that poor woman’s face in that photo. Not something that should have happened to her, and I disagree with condoning/dismissing it.
With that, I’m off; work calls and I doubt I’ll have time to comment much in future.
Nah, that’s very invasive in any context. Maybe Grandma can get away with that (evoking the same pained expression from grandchild) but no one should grab someone by the face unless they’re very intimate.
I think that’s a good point. Just one more opinion, as someone female who has been at the receiving end of creepy behavior, the hand on the bare lower back and the manipulative remark comes off as totally different from Biden’s being very huggy and so forth.
Around here some people put up signs attacking Biden using pictures of him hovering over a kiddo… like a really nice person who honestly loves kids. There are enough Italian and Irish Americans around here who imnsho correctly recognized that the sickos were the ones who made the signs.
As far as the Gov goes, I am in the “let the investigation happen, and let’s keep our focus on the actual Nazis” camp. AG James is NOT going to mess around.
She already said before getting elected, or maybe right after ,that she would charge anyone including Cuomo himself if she had evidence that they broke the law. I don’t think she needs anybody telling her to take this seriously.
Beau of the Fifth Column put it like this: when trying to figure out what is appropriate, ask yourself, would you be comfortable with a man doing that to you… in prison?
So, you’re a man in prison, and you take Cuomo’s hand away from where it is touching your back, in the shower (presumably that’s why you have a bare back, right?). And then he… yeah.
Don’t drop the soap, yo. You are being sent a very direct message about what the guy means to do to you, asap.
Context matters. We want men (I am one) to seek consent, but the mere fact of asking for consent does make the situation OK. I think implicit in “one should seek consent…” is the rest of the thought “…when in a social context where what one is seeking consent for is appropriate.”
@Rand Careaga: I think the correct term is narcissist. (From my SW friends.) He thinks he can scam everyone and everyone will love him.
I was a lawyer for two decades and when he put his hand on her, that was battery. In our legal system, no one can touch you without your consent.
Then he did it again. Second battery.
The asking if he could kiss her, a stranger, was just an intimidating and uncool remark.
She could sue him for the batteries but he knew she wouldn’t because he’s the governor.
Like all predators, he knew the precise boundary of what he is likely to get away with, and he was in a room closely filled with other people, so the third time he asked the intimidating question instead of just committing another battery.
This will keep happening until all candidates for office are female
Sorry, John, but you’re way off base to me, and I’m disappointed. Asking for permission then going ahead without getting it is not OK, and calling HER aggressive is Republican behavior we complain about constantly. I worry about what he’s done in private if he feels free to pull this shit in a crowd full of people with cameras.
So. It sucks, and I believe we can do two things at one time, and express disapproval when a party that gets a huge advantage when way more women vote for Democrats than Republicans. Saying things like “men always like this at weddings ” is straight up “Boys will be Boys” when a rich white kid tries, or success, to make a woman do something she doesn’t want to. See Kavanaugh, B.
That said, it’s up to the voters of NYS whether he resigns or not.
Not in left field at all.
@Chris Johnson: Exactly this. And if your response is to attack your aggressor, then make him 1.2 times taller than you and 1.5 times heavier, and jacked as well.
I sympathize with the the “nut shot” comments, but like in sports, retaliation always hurts you more. Especially if the other person has power.