Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Dear media: perhaps we ought to let Donald Trump speak for himself!

Republicans: “Abortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.” Easy peasy.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

Republicans firmly believe having an abortion is a very personal, very private decision between a woman and J.D. Vance.

He really is that stupid.

Fear and negativity are contagious, but so is courage!

Shut up, hissy kitty!

I am pretty sure these ‘journalists’ were not always such a bootlicking sycophants.

No Kings: Americans standing in the way of bad history saying “Oh, Fuck No!”

American history and black history cannot be separated.

“woke” is the new caravan.

A tremendous foreign policy asset… to all of our adversaries.

It is not hopeless, and we are not helpless.

“Perhaps I should have considered other options.” (head-desk)

Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

Compromise? There is no middle ground between a firefighter and an arsonist.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

There are more Russians standing up to Putin than Republicans.

Fuck these fucking interesting times.

This country desperately needs a functioning fourth estate.

Mediocre white men think RFK Jr’s pathetic midlife crisis is inspirational. The bar is set so low for them, it’s subterranean.

So fucking stupid, and still doing a tremendous amount of damage.

If you thought you’d already seen people saying the stupidest things possible on the internet, prepare yourselves.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

You are here: Home / Politics / Domestic Politics / Good Example vs. Cautionary Tale (Open Thread)

Good Example vs. Cautionary Tale (Open Thread)

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I’ve been trying to keep my pessimism to a minimum around here because I can (sort of, sometimes) read a room, but I’ll admit when I first read about President Biden’s planned visit to Florida today, I thought “why bother?” I was wrong — Team Biden has exactly the right idea:

CNN: When President Joe Biden rallies Democrats in Florida on Tuesday for a final-stretch campaign stop, he will finally land in the state his advisers have long eyed as the ideal backdrop for his warnings against “mega-MAGA” Republicans.

For months, Biden and his team have been hoping to use Florida’s constellation of Trump-aligned Republicans – including the former president himself – to crystallize Biden’s closing pitch that the election is a choice and not a referendum and galvanize Democratic voters.

“You can’t shake a stick (in Florida) without hitting a Republican that represents the MAGA extremes that the president is talking about,” a senior Biden adviser said. “So, it allows the president to really drive home what’s at stake and what the choice is.”

The article notes that the president’s team doesn’t expect the visit to dramatically change the dynamics of the statewide races here. Part of the plan will be to uplift the local candidates, but it sounds like the main mission is to point to Florida as a cautionary tale.

I hope Biden will highlight the alarming turn to authoritarianism under Republican rule, including the persecution of queer people, rollback of abortion rights, dilution of black voting power, rising antisemitism, book banning, politically motivated medical crackpottery, and overtly authoritarian interference in elections, education, public health and virtually every facet of life that intersects with state power.

One way Republicans win with an unpopular platform is by nationalizing every election. They make each contest a referendum on the local Republican sleazebag vs. the GOP’s Big Woke Hollywood Coastal Effete Elitist fantasy.

Well, what Democrats have here are opponents with actual power who really do want to shove people back in the closet, subvert elections, indoctrinate kids, co-opt government agencies for political gain and strip away rights and benefits. So, go get ’em, Tiger.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

173Comments

  2. 2.

    Betty

     

    The DeSantis interference in law enforcement is also alarming. Firing a District Attorney for political reasons and arresting people for voting when they were led to believe they could are just two examples.

  3. 3.

    SFAW

    turn to authoritarianism under Republican rule, including the persecution of queer people, rollback of abortion rights, dilution of black voting power, rising antisemitism, book banning, politically motivated medical crackpottery, and overtly authoritarian interference in elections, education, public health and virtually every facet of life that intersects with state power.

    You seem to think those are all problems/concerns/issues. Why is that? As a “right-thinking” white man who hates Demoncraps, minorities, wimmins, and democracy, you should have no issu- …
    Wait, I’ll come in again.

  4. 4.

    MisterDancer

    @Baud: Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

    Was just thinking same earlier today!

    Thank you for saying it.

  8. 8.

    Marmot

     

    @Baud: Good. Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

    Yes. Some share of Dems apparently believe that all campaigning and other work is pointless unless you win. I kind of lit into a neighbor last night for this. It ain’t how the Repubs think.

  10. 10.

    Math Guy

    And whisper into the ears of your conservative friends, “I know you would never admit to voting for a Democrat even though – deep inside – you know that is the right thing to do. Just remember: it’s a secret ballot.”

  13. 13.

    MisterDancer

    Regarding DeSantis: It used to be that you got elected by pissin’ on us Negroes like we were on fire. George Wallace’s infamous statement was only the most well-known of a bunch of politicians (not all in the American South) who rode into office on the backs of White Supremacy.

    DeSantis is at the vanguard of the modern version, and that’s what makes him dangerous. He doesn’t need Charisma to be Cruel, and the cruelty…well. It’s not THE point, it’s the flag for people to flock to him, the signs and portents that he’ll protect their bigoted values. It’s why the bigotry is now spread about, bringing back old horrors like antisemitic ideas and adding to it made-up crap like anti-Trans bullshit.

    They are slowly, painfully, training people to always have a target to hate, and culling their hate for votes and power. That’s why DeSantis inflicts all of this pain!

    We have a chance to stop it, before it metastasizes into full-blown Authoritarianism, again. That’s why having Biden call it out, matters — and why the rest of us need to be vocal about these things, before it becomes truly hardened in the hearts of Americans in general.

  14. 14.

    Ohio Mom

    I just wish we had more data about what works and doesn’t work in this era of very early voting. Do the undecideds wait until the last minute or what percent of them are lying about being undecided and already voted? Is Biden’s speech directed at them or Democrats who need rousing to go vote already?

    If there was ever an October surprise that worked in our favor, would it be wasted on the mushy middle who already voted Red for whatever reasons?

    What is the optimal length of time for an early voting period?

    Now none of this matters to me personally, I have almost always voted a straight Democratic ticket, even in the rare instances when our candidate was a doozy. (The few times I voted for a Republican or a Charterite (an anachronistic third party in the City of Cincinnati) was in the early 1980s, just in local elections.)

    I could vote for President now, and I don’t even know who is running.

  15. 15.

    Betty Cracker

    @Marmot: True — you have to try or you’ll definitely lose and be unable to capitalize on any events that could change the dynamics of a race. Resources are limited — maybe especially the president’s attention — so it makes sense to invest them where they’ll have the most impact. Good to see Biden squaring that circle in FL.

    It can be especially hard to be optimistic in an increasingly red state, but one thing I remind myself about regarding the 2022 midterms is that it’s amazing all by itself that Dems are within striking distance, given political patterns and all the shit that’s happening right now.

  16. 16.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Marmot: It’s kind of connected to the feeling I was talking about earlier, that every single election is Armageddon, potentially the permanent end of democracy. But you can’t win every one–if you absolutely have to win every one then it’s almost as if democracy is gone already. We need to figure out how we respond when we lose. Also to remember that the elections are important all the way down the ballot.

  17. 17.

    Quinerly

    Good morning!

    Voted absentee since JoJo and I are leaving for a get away to Bluff, Utah Saturday.  Drive to Farmington, NM for Saturday night. Hope to finally get to Chaco Canyon Sat/Sun. Then on to Bluff for 6 nights. Need this getaway. Oct was the month of 3 sets of houseguests and 2 sets probably won’t be invited back. Why do people spend money and effort to visit a place (Santa Fe and surrounds) and do no prior research to understand the history, food, and sights? Last visitors were down right bizarre. From St. Louis and I have known them 30 years. Never again.

    Don’t want to be a downer but very worried about this election. This Bluff trip was supposed to be in Sept but changed it without really looking at the calendar. Now, I am glad I will be kinda out of the box next week. Limited WiFi and no tv.

    Have a great day, Juicers!

  18. 18.

    Kay

    Great article on the damage “the wokeness panic” that America’s idiotic ‘public intelllectuals” promoted has done to US public schools:

    In August, 2020, Williamson County Schools, which serves more than forty thousand students in suburban Nashville, started using an English and Language Arts curriculum called Wit & Wisdom. The program, which is published by Great Minds, a company based in Washington, D.C., wasn’t a renegade choice: hundreds of school districts nationwide had adopted it. Both Massachusetts and Louisiana—states with sharply different political profiles—gave Wit & Wisdom high approval ratings.
    Elsewhere in Tennessee, teachers were saying that Wit & Wisdom improved literacy. The superintendent of Lauderdale County, a rural area where nearly a quarter of the population lives below the poverty line, published an essay reporting that his district’s teachers had noticed “an enormous difference in students’ writing” after implementing the curriculum. Wit & Wisdom encourages students to discuss readings with their families—a father in Sumner County, northeast of Nashville, was pleased that his daughters now talked about civil rights and the American Revolution at dinner.
    Then, seemingly out of nowhere, Wit & Wisdom became the target of intense criticism. In May, 2021, as the district finished its first academic year with Wit & Wisdom, women wearing “Moms for Liberty” T-shirts began appearing at school-board meetings. They brought large placards that contained images and text from thirty-one books that they didn’t want students to read. In public comments and in written complaints, the women claimed that Wit & Wisdom was teaching children to hate themselves, one another, their families, and America. “Rap a Tap Tap,” an illustrated story about the vaudeville-era tap dancer Bill (Bojangles) Robinson, by the Caldecott medalists Leo and Diane Dillon, harped on “skin color differences.” A picture book about seahorses, which touched on everything from their ability to change color to the independent movement of their eyes, threatened to “normalize that males can get pregnant” by explaining that male seahorses give birth; the Moms suspected a covert endorsement of “gender fluidity.” Greco-Roman myths: nudity, cannibalism. (Venus emerges naked from the sea; Tantalus cooks his son.)

  19. 19.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Baud: Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

    Amen. And the fight doesn’t have to be violent to be relentless.

    Nor does relentless mean joyless! I thought the “postcard-writing and music” blog posts were a lot of fun.

    Many of the postcard groups will be writing for special elections (and off-cycle elections) in 2023. In case we need an excuse for a blog party. :-)

  20. 20.

    Baud

    @Matt McIrvin:

    If we lose, it’ll be because of the temporary problems of inflation and crime.  The GOP will see it as a mandate for bigotry, but I don’t think it’ll be popular.

  21. 21.

    Doug R

    @Baud: Yup. You can’t call yourself a national party if you don’t make an honest effort to run SOMEBODY for every seat.

    And give every candidate some money. Doesn’t have to be a lot, but give your voters some hope-because we are everywhere and building takes time.

  22. 22.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: I can’t believe they would stand up there and rail about the seahorse book. The other things, I can imagine (unfortunately).

    You know the one that got the seahorse screed placard must be either the most crazy one or the most stupid one (or both).

  24. 24.

    sab

    @Kay: Reminder to all Ohio jackals to research their state board of education candidates because there are some real doozies on their side. One of those obscure races that normies will ignore at our peril.

  25. 25.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: The thing that drives me nuts about national coverage of wingnut groups like “Moms for Liberty” is how rarely Beltway reporters point out that the so-called concerned moms are actually Republican operatives. It’s not hard to discover this fact — just Google them! They’ve run unsuccessfully for school boards, city councils, etc., on hard-right platforms! And yet the Beltway press treats them as legit. Similar thing happened with the astro-turfed tea party groups.

  26. 26.

    Geminid

    @MisterDancer: Charlie Crist yesterday:

     It’s been two days since anti-semitic messages were displayed across Jacksonville and Ron DeSantis still refuses to condemn them.

    Why is it so hard for him to condemn hate?

    @CharlieCrist October 31.

  28. 28.

    Paul in KY

    @Betty Cracker: I think the beltway lickspittles like their ‘savvy’ in coming up with the ‘Moms for Liberty’ name.  If you google them, are you spitting on Betsy Ross?

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud: A thing in Massachusetts that honestly surprises me is that the referendum to retain undocumented immigrants’ access to driver’s licenses seems like it will pass.

  32. 32.

    Lady WereBear

    I find that when I defer to greater acumen, like the coalition that brought Biden to the forefront of the race, and now, when he’s President, and it’s just thrilling to know DC has greater acumen than I.

    For a change.

  36. 36.

    Professor Bigfoot

    @Math Guy: I have no white supremacist friends

    ed: IMHO, white male supremacy is the only thing that ties the entire conservative movement together, and fuck ’em, every single one.

  37. 37.

    Ohio Mom

    The thing about reading comprehension is, once a student gets the basic mechanics down, it’s all about background knowledge. You want to expose young children to a wide range of topics so they have a scaffold in which to place new information.

    So yes, introduce them to sea horses as an example of the many forms life can take. When they later read about other species they will be looking for the ways that species fits into their environment. And if they are reading about other sea life, they will already know that the oceans and seas are not uniform environments, that there are many different communities of life underwater.

    On a related note, these people are upset that there is nudity in Greek myths? Have they read the first chapter of the Bible?

  39. 39.

    Betty Cracker

    @Geminid: Nikki Fried on Twitter this morning: “Headed to Jacksonville to hold a press conference condemning the alarming rise of antisemitism in Florida.”

    Good for her. She’s an elected official using her platform to address what DeSantis won’t. I didn’t realize DeSantis attended the FL-GA game where one of the antisemitic messages in Jax was projected. Don’t know if he was still there when it happened, but it doesn’t matter. His silence is shocking — or should be.

  40. 40.

    Paul in KY

    @Ohio Mom: It’s also completely stupid, as the male seahorse is not ‘pregnant’, he’s just protecting the eggs that have already been birthed by the female in the partnership.

  43. 43.

    Quinerly

    @Geminid: last visit there was 2017. It’s not a well known destination but so close to Monument Valley, Valley of the Gods, Bears Ears, Mexican Hat, Moki Dugway, Gooseneck, Natural Bridges National Monument, San Juan River. … Could even scoot over to Canyon de Chelly. Not sure why not well known. Artists community of less than 400 people… At least last time I was there. Not typical Utah.

  45. 45.

    John S.

    @Betty Cracker:

    And yet, no matter what DeSantis does (or doesn’t do), he will most likely get re-elected.

    It seems like all the transplants moving to Florida the last 20 years are all wingnuts, which is why the state has turned into MAGA central.

  48. 48.

    Matt McIrvin

    @H.E.Wolf:

    Amen. And the fight doesn’t have to be violent to be relentless.

    We have to think about how to respond to deadly violence, though. If it’s now normal and accepted to attack the families of Democratic political figures with hammers, is an unarmed response enough? What happens when a thousand or a million people do this at the same time? It seems to be normalized that if you’re a Democratic candidate for anything, somebody is going to at least threaten to kill you.

    This isn’t a new debate, of course.

  49. 49.

    sab

    @Baud: Yes. When I get in a car accident I want the other driver to have insurance, and insurance doesn’t cover you without a valid driver’s license.

  50. 50.

    WaterGirl

    @H.E.Wolf:

    Nor does relentless mean joyless! I thought the “postcard-writing and music” blog posts were a lot of fun.

    There is another postcard writing & music thread tonight!  Post goes up at 7:45 pm.

  51. 51.

    Paul in KY

    @Matt McIrvin: I’m sure if Mr. Pelosi had a weapon handy, he would have shot his MAGA ass.

    IMO, even if you are agin firearms or can’t have them in your house due to children, etc., you at least need some kind of force multiplier like a baseball bat or a medieval weapon of some kind in a place where you can grab it if unfortunately needed.

  52. 52.

    WaterGirl

    I added two rotating tags from this thread:

    Whatever happens next week, the fight doesn’t end.

    Why is it so hard for them to condemn hate?

  53. 53.

    Benw

    @Betty Cracker: there’s also (at least in my 60-40 R-D split school district) usually a significant presence of normal parents at the BOE meetings. Even at the height of mask mandates/CRT insanity the split was roughly 50/50. But us normies don’t wave signs and ramble on about how civil war era surgeons “discovered” that gangrene cases were healed when the stopped using masks while operating. So the nutcases get outsized reportage.

  55. 55.

    Quinerly

    SC just blocked Trump having to turn over tax returns. Looking for a link. A Roberts ruling. Temporary stay.

  57. 57.

    Benw

    @WaterGirl: Nazare is freaking terrifying. Even more than other famous big wave spots like Jaws or Mavericks, Nazare just feels completely out of control!

  59. 59.

    p.a.

    TPM:  “Oz Unaware Pennsylvania Isn’t On The Coast

    Pennsylvania GOP Senate nominee Dr. Mehmet Oz complained to Fox News host Sean Hannity on Monday that “we do not have a Republican senator north of North Carolina on the Atlantic coast until you get to Maine, if I don’t hold this seat.”

    Someone needs to get Oz tRump’s Sharpie-of-Make-it-So

  60. 60.

    Scout211

    @Quinerly: Link

    Roberts asked for a response by November 10.

    The “administrative stay” is temporary in nature and does not always reflect the final disposition of the dispute. It is a move often made when a deadline approaches to preserve the status quo and give the justices more time to act.

    In a flurry of Trump related emergency petitions in recent days the justice with jurisdiction over the lower courts have decided to issue such temporary relief.

    Justice Elena Kagan, for example issued such a stay on October 26 temporarily blocking a subpoena from the House select committee investigating the January 6, 2021, attacks for phone and text records of Arizona Republican Party Chair Kelli Ward.

    Justice Clarence Thomas froze an order on October 24 requiring the testimony of Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham before a Georgia grand jury.

  61. 61.

    Cameron

    I like it.  Dark Brandon enters The Lyin’s Den.  Bring it right to these assholes.  Call them out in their own nests.  Will it make a difference here in FL?  Possibly.  Will it make a difference nationally?  I think so, but we’ll find out pretty soon, won’t we?

  62. 62.

    Quinerly

    @Baud: yep. I never practiced before the Supremes before retiring after 35 years of practice but pretty basic Civ Pro. Relevant since yet another delay by SC in all things Trump.

  66. 66.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @WaterGirl:

    Hey WG! I was wondering, were the postcards everyone did for last Tuesday ever posted? Did I make it in time for the match yesterday?

  71. 71.

    Baud

    @Benw:

    So the nutcases get outsized reportage.

     
    Also, outsized attention in liberal spaces, at least compared to normal people fighting back in normal ways.

  72. 72.

    Anyway

    Bummer –the Libertarian candidate in the AZ senate race has dropped out in support of the Rethuglican, That’s Thiel’s protege Masters. I want to see him lose…

  73. 73.

    SteveinPHX

    @Quinerly: ​
    Had a wonderful time camping at Chaco Canyon with one of my sons several years ago. Then headed down to El Malpais National Monument. Beautiful country.
    HAVE FUN!

  75. 75.

    Betty Cracker

    @Paul in KY: My defensive weapon of choice is a 9-iron. Pitching wedge would do in a pinch.

    @John S.: I think blue states typically become solidly blue when the population centers reach a tipping point where they can outvote rural areas. That’s why a state like CA can have more Trump voters than MS, AL, AR, etc., combined and still remain solidly blue.

    That formula is complicated in FL by two factors: 1) one of the fastest-growing population centers is The Villages and environs, which is overwhelmingly white midwestern wingnuts, and 2) our largest city — Miami — has tons of Hispanic Republicans.

    Population growth in the Tampa Bay and Orlando areas may eventually outstrip those GOP advantages, but probably not this election cycle, unfortunately. Maybe it never will and we eventually sink beneath the waves, but I remain hopeful.

  78. 78.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Paul in KY: I’m not really thinking about individual home defense here–I think the statistics that a gun in your home is much more likely to kill you or someone close to you than to foil an attack applies just as much to us as to them. I’m wondering more if we’re going to need an army sooner or later.

  83. 83.

    Another Scott

    Skip To My Lula, Darling

    With da Silva skipping to victory, will Bolsanaro do the Bossa Nova out of office? Or will he make like a tree named Trump and refuse to leave?

    by Maureen Dowd

    — New York Times Pitchbot (@DougJBalloon) October 31, 2022

    Ooof.

    [ golf clap ]

    rofl.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  84. 84.

    Soprano2

    @Betty: Did you see the story about the PA Republican legislature impeaching Larry Krasner, the Philadelphia DA who was re-elected by a wide margin? They are trying to do what DeSantis did, remove elected officials who they don’t like by autocratic means. It’s a dangerous trend that needs to be stopped.

  86. 86.

    BlueGuitarist

    Speaking of Florida, a little more about

    Eunic Ortiz, the fabulous Florida state senate candidate who posted a comment here about the use of late campaign money when WaterGirl first posted re downballot elections.

    Eunic reached out to say thanks for support +

    jazzed to report Vote Save America saying she can win; the importance of winning the seat to prevent a Republican super majority in the FL senate; and of course, to ask for $10 or $25 or more, in a final effort effort.

    Main thing:

    You can see/hear her campaigning:

    twitter.com/eunicortiz/status/1587109837971800065

    twitter.com/KevinCate/status/1587090882485960705

    Eunic is a union organizer and led the team that passed the 2020 Florida ballot initiative raising the minimum wage to $15. She could be the second Hispanic elected official in Pinellas County and Florida’s first openly lesbian state senator.

    Super swing district, overlaps:

    a FL house district 61 where veteran Janet Varnell Warwick, FL Consumer Protection Attorney (of the year, 2019) is running against an  extreme anti-environment R incumbent.

    Crist’s old US house seat, gerrymandered from Biden +4 to Biden -7, where Eric Lynn, former Senior Advisor to the Secretary of Defense is running against a mega maga who got Lauern Boebert to campaign for her (tied in last poll i saw, fwiw)

    Plus additional overlap: first contested election for ~DA: 6th Judicial Circuit State’s Attorney (Pinellas and Pasco counties) Democratic candidate: public defender Allison Miller.

    Plus every D additional voter she brings to the polls can vote for

    Crist for Governor

    Val Demings for Senate

    Aramis Ayala for Attorney General

    Adam Hattersley for CFO, and

    Naomi Blemur for Agriculture Commissioner

    LFG

    Love all y’all

  87. 87.

    Betty Cracker

    Speaking of The Villages, I live well to the west of it and rarely visit unless I need some fancy ingredients that my small town grocery stores don’t carry. But I was in dire need of a haircut* and booked an appointment there last weekend. I had no idea what to expect but figured a salon in The Villages would cater to the white midwestern retiree trade and wondered with trepidation what that might look like.

    Boy was I off base! The shop was staffed by a feisty, diverse group of 20-something, goth-looking women with tattoo sleeves, black lipstick and multicolored hairdos. Their fashion sense reminded me of my late-80s, punk-adjacent youth — thrift store finds and Doc Marten boots! Maybe that IS catering to the retiree trade these days — LOL!

    *Last time I sought post-pandemic hair care (i.e., someone other than my husband wielding the scissors) in my actual town, I got trapped in a chair with foil and chemicals on my head while the stylist rambled on about religion and conspiracy theories. It was terrible. I’ll stick with The Villages place from now on. 

  89. 89.

    Quinerly

    @SteveinPHX: I have been trying to get there since 2011 when I first starting traveling out here. Now that I live outside of Santa Fe, I really have no excuses. My plan is to hit it before stopping in Farmington. And, yes, I know the horror stories about the road in. I will be in my 4WD Ford. Want to spend a few hours then head on to Farmington for the night. Then Bluff the next day. Taking just the minimum in camping equipment so on the return from Bluff, may dip in again and car camp. Did you spend one or two nights? The campground there?

  90. 90.

    Nelle

    Absolutely OT.  I was out in the two neighborhoods that I’m trying to herd to the polls yesterday.  With my new data sheet, I noticed two newly registered Democrats, both in households which have no other registered D’s.  Both of the newbies are females, one age 18, one 19.  It made me smile.  Are we seeing data breakdown on registration of newly eligible young women voters?

    I was talking to a group of 18 to 20 year old people at a political picnic and , while determined to vote, they were worried that politicians weren’t trying hard enough with their cohort.  “If they aren’t on TikTok, they won’t be noticed.”  I tried to link on of them (she is studying political communication) with an elderly (age 25!!) staffer for a House of Rep campaign.  He admitted he wasn’t sure how to reach that just younger group.

    I have a feeling that the 18 to 21 year old group will be voting in spite of the campaigns, not necessarily because of them.

  95. 95.

    Another Scott

    @WaterGirl: Back in my much younger days when I was refusing to recognize that the choice was always between the two big parties and I needed to grow up and decide, and I voted Libertarian, it was because I didn’t like either of the major candidates much.  So, if there are still politically immature people like that out there, I would expect that only about half – at most – of the Libertarian votes go to the GQPer.  (Too many, of course.)  There’s a visceral difference between passively enabling evil by withholding your vote for a sensible person, and actively choosing evil by voting for the GQPer.

    But those days were around 40 years ago for me and things may have certainly changed.

    FWIW.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  97. 97.

    Benw

    @Paul in KY: well, you could *hear* the eyes rolling on one side of the room.

    @Baud: that’s true! Let’s let the normies live in our heads for a change. I think I’m gonna go get a cup at a diner…. :)

  102. 102.

    Mike in NC

    Florida is the weirdest place I’ve ever been to and I never really enjoyed going there. In 20 years a lot of it will be under water.

  103. 103.

    Scout211

    @Betty Cracker: My sister and BIL are in Orlando and while he leans R, she is solidly Dem.  Both being normies, neither seem to be paying much attention to what’s happening in Florida.  She calls DeSantis an idiot but feels like Orange County is kind of like a protected area.  I don’t know if that’s true or not. I guess we will find out.

  106. 106.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Another Scott: I think it’s a constant that young people really, really do not like to identify as a member of a major political party–it is a stodgy, uncool thing to do. I get pushback whenever I suggest that we should seek to normalize straight-ticket voting, and it’s mostly younger people who object.

  107. 107.

    There go two miscreants

    I just registered (like a dummy I had missed the mail-in deadline, but they have same-day reg here at the early voting sites) and voted in my new home in NC.​​
    ETA: Short line, took less than 20 min total.

  110. 110.

    Paul in KY

    @Geminid: He’s cheering for the Pennsylvania Phillipians to bring home the World Baseball Cup to Pittsburg!!! Eating a steak sandwich with cheese and his crudité tray.

  112. 112.

    Paul in KY

    @Mike in NC: I lived down in Homestead for a few years back in the 80s and have vacayed there (Florida)  many times.  I love the gulf coast beaches. Some of the best beaches in the world.

  116. 116.

    JoyceH

    A week or so ago, I had a kind of cynical, mean-spirited thought. Thought – one thing that would probably kill Walker’s chances in Georgia would be if one of the women he was involved with turned out to be white.

    Well, now Jane Doe 2 has come forward and she’s white. So – what do you folks think? Will it make a difference?

  117. 117.

    Paul in KY

    @snoey: Those would work great! Thanks for the idea.  A crowbar would be a terrible thing to get whangolaed with. Another do-it-yourself forece multiplier.

  120. 120.

    Paul in KY

    @frosty: I wish I was that subtle, frosty. Spellcheck didn’t flag it or I hit send too soon. Appreciate you thinking that of me :-)

  122. 122.

    Eolirin

    @JoyceH: Probably not. I think it’s important to recognize that the most rabid part of the base, the part that would be most likely to have an issue with that, has internalized power for power’s sake in a biblical way; it doesn’t matter how flawed the vessel is, if they’re on their side, they’re still carrying out God’s will.

    They don’t care about their candidates anymore, just beating their enemies and using their power to subjugate anyone they view as being against them.

    It took a pedophile rapist to lose to a Democrat in a state like Alabama (only by about 1% of the vote!) and even then, they still lost the white vote something like 60/40

    The only way to lose support is to be a “liberal”, or be in favor of “liberal” policies. And only in he present tense. It doesn’t even matter what you used to support as long as you’re saying the right things now

    Hypocrisy doesn’t matter. This is one area where we’re at a major disadvantage. We expect our candidates to be good, honest, people, they only expect their candidates to deliver when in power and to parrot the right words when not.

  125. 125.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    Behind a pay wall, but I saw this headline in the WaPo: GOP seizes on voter hesitancy to attack EVs as costly to US

    According to the version of the article I saw in my local paper, a poll found that nearly 2/3 of Americans say they don’t plan to buy any EVs in the next 3 years and that GOP candidates commonly cite the average cost of a new EV of $65,000. The subheadline: “Say the auto industry shift is out of touch with real Americans”

    They’re the ones who are out of touch. This transition is a way for us to rid ourselves of OPEC+ and it’s providing lots of real jobs for Americans

  126. 126.

    The Moar You Know

    I’m not really thinking about individual home defense here–I think the statistics that a gun in your home is much more likely to kill you or someone close to you than to foil an attack applies just as much to us as to them. I’m wondering more if we’re going to need an army sooner or later.

    @Matt McIrvin: Well, here’s what everyone needs if we’re gonna go there:

    at least one semiautomatic rifle chambered in 5.56 NATO

    at least one semiautomatic pistol chambered in 9mm

    at least a couple hundred rounds of ammo for both

    a couple hundred more for practice

    a few sessions at the range to learn how to make them shoot

    a few refresher sessions a year to remember how to make them shoot

    All this should run between $3k-$5k, depending on the state you reside in.

    Probably be a good idea to read up on basic tactics and methods to avoid shooting your allies.

    Way too late now if you’re asking my opinion, which you didn’t.  Liberals should have started arming up 20 years ago, when it became obvious the direction that America was going.  I hope that’s a choice that nobody ends up regretting.

  127. 127.

    The Moar You Know

    I have a couple sharpened ones. Maybe not legal.  The points can be sharp, I think. What I know about sword fighting is you use the point anyway.

    @Paul in KY: The land of freedom for bladed weapons is…California.  Everything is legal here save switchblades (yes, swords are legal too) and they all can be as sharp as you can make them.

    PROTIP:  you use any part of the blade you can get on your opponent.  It all works the same.

  130. 130.

    J R in WV

    I have to renew the registration for a car we don’t use very often, it’s a sporty low slung car, not good for country roads of rural WV. To do that, I have to pay and hold the receipts for the property taxes on the cars at the courthouse. Which is where early voting is ongoing.

    So we are about to leave to pay taxes and vote, and get lunch on the way into town, which is a tiny town with very few amenities. It will be a straight Democratic ticket for both of us, and “NO” on the constitutional amendments, which are the only voter approved method of legislating in WV.

    We loved living in Key West in the early 1970s, snorkeling and diving the reefs mostly. But we went back to Key West a few years ago, and it has been destroyed by the Cruise Line business. When the Navy used the harbor for military ships, there was nowhere for cruise liners to dock. Now the island is besieged by thousands of tourons every day. The fine restaurants are mostly all gone, replaced by institutions which was serve 3000 meals in 45 minutes. Imagine that food!

    Wish us luck on the mission to pay taxes and vote!!

  132. 132.

    Paul in KY

    @The Moar You Know: Good advice on what to get. I like .308 myself, but understand the 5.56 is probably easier to get and cheaper too.

    One good point, if getting an AK style rifle, is that in a pinch you can use the .308 (won’t work as well as the normal ammo for your weapon) but someone using .308 cannot use your ammo.  Those dasterdly Russians thought that up.

  136. 136.

    Paul in KY

    @The Moar You Know: The point is what you want to use, as if you do one of those big Hollywood slashes and miss, the other person just skewers you while you are on the backswing portion of your slash.

    That’s a protip too :-)

  138. 138.

    Paul in KY

    @J R in WV: I bet the Key West locals (those that don’t own those restaurants) absolutely hate that. The times I went down there, the Conchers were very protective of their (at that time) little town. Sad to hear that.

  139. 139.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @The Moar You Know: For those of us in urban areas, I’d recommend a 20-gauge shotgun instead a semiautomatic rifle. Less need for precision aiming, less recoil than a 12-gauge, and less chance of causing deadly damage to the neighbors.

    Another benefit, the sound of a shotgun being racked, really does has a primal effect. A friend of mine was cleaning her shotgun, which she uses for hunting, when she heard a burglar in the house. She racked it, even though it wasn’t fireable. Burglar heard it and fled.

    Cole had recommended the Mossberg Nightstick, which is a goose-neck shotgun (i.e. pistol-sized grip rather than a full stock), useful for tight spaces. There’s some debate over the stopping power of a 20-gauge vs. the more powerful 12-gauge, but in my case any defensive usage would be at a range of tens of feet, where the difference is marginal.

    Still haven’t bought one, but given the increasing number violent attacks on queer people, and that I fly a Pride flag at my house, I’m starting to consider more and more whether it makes sense to have one — even in a deep blue part of CA.

  141. 141.

    Skepticat

    I just voted here in Maine, and I’m glad I went early, as there was a glitch. I’ve been voting as a resident living overseas for years, but after losing my Bahamian home, I let that expire in 2021. However, I still show up in the computer system under that designation. It took two kind and efficient clerks a while to change my status, but I finally was able to vote. I didn’t know candidates in my temporary town, but it was all blue no matter who.

  142. 142.

    Ken

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): a poll found that nearly 2/3 of Americans say they don’t plan to buy any EVs in the next 3 years

    How does that compare to the percentage that plans to buy any vehicle in the next three years? It’s not like people replace their car every other year.

  143. 143.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @Lady WereBear: FWIW, the earthquake prep guides also recommend having a hardhat (also from hardware) store or a bike/skaters helmet in case of falling debris.

    But in the case of an intruder, if you have time to put it on, it’s giving you some head protection.

  144. 144.

    Paul in KY

    @Sister Golden Bear: Loaded with buckshot or something like that, a 20 gauge will work just as well as a 12.  Less recoil too, as you mentioned.

    That racking sound can certainly raise the hackles on any non-crazy intruder. Good points all!

  146. 146.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Mike in NC:

    Florida is the weirdest place I’ve ever been to

    The news link site fark.com agrees with you. It tags every link with something like “amusing”, “stupid”, “sad”, “cool, or “weird”. One of their tags is “Florida”.

  147. 147.

    dnfree

    We took our mail ballots to the drop box inside city hall, only accessible 8-5 M-F, right in the lobby, surrounded by staff, right by a courtroom.  We cut out one of the middle steps (post office), but the ballots still have to be transported to the county office.  We’ll be able to check online that they were received.  Absolutely no suspicious lurkers photographing our license plate, etc.

    It feels good to have it done.  We signed up for permanent vote-by-mail in general elections, as is now possible in Illinois.

  148. 148.

    artem1s

    @JoyceH: ​
     

    Well, now Jane Doe 2 has come forward and she’s white. So – what do you folks think? Will it make a difference?

    Nah, that the kind of abortion the Fuck-You-I-Got-Mine GOPer thinks isn’t going to be illegal post Dodd. also,too mixed race babies are totally worse than abortion in MAGA world.

  149. 149.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ken: Yeah, I don’t plan to buy an EV in the next 3 years because I just bought a hybrid. But my next car probably will be an EV.

  150. 150.

    Bupalos

    @Professor Bigfoot: There’s enough women and non-whites in their coalition that I think while it may not be wrong to think of white supremacist patriarchy as a common thread, it also isn’t a very useful observation. Something else is causing a lot of people to grasp at that common thread.

    It’s worthwhile to remember that this authoritarian, nationalist, backwards-looking movement is not specifically American, it’s a global phenomenon.

  151. 151.

    Geminid

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I think that demand for EVs will keep up with supply , and hopefully charging infrastructure will keep up with both, and electrical grid inhancement will keep pace also. And I think that purchases in the next 3 years are not as important as the number bought in 2030 and beyond.

    In the meantime petroleum based fuels will steadily increase in prices so more hybrids will be bought. And people  will see a lot of electric delivery vans to get them used to the idea. Fleet owners like UPS will lead the way so far as EVs go.

    I’ve heard that $65,000 figure for EV prices and I am sceptical. I know a Chevy Bolt doesn’t cost that much and other lower cost models will be on the market in a couple years.

  152. 152.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Geminid: The Hyundai Ioniq 5 is in the ballpark of $50,000. That’s a fairly expensive car as they come but that’s a NICE EV, and I wouldn’t think of it as an average price. I’m guessing their sample is weighted toward the Tesla Model S.

    The Nissan Leaf is more in the $30k-$40k range.

    You’re definitely still paying a substantial premium, but you probably get it back in total cost of ownership.

  155. 155.

    Betty Cracker

    @Bupalos: IMO, anyone who has attributes the rise of fascism here or anywhere else to a single cause is wrong. Or, put more graciously, they’ve identified one portion of a complex problem.

  156. 156.

    Jackie

    @Betty Cracker: If Floridians re-elect him, it’s obvious the majority want a dictator; not a governor. I can’t believe Cuban-Americans would support the kind of leadership they fled from! Mind boggling.

  157. 157.

    MrKite

    @Paul in KY: I think your time line may be a bit off, Paul. My entry meeting with my doctoral committee in the Fall of 1972 was remarkable both for the oddly specific research topics I was unable to impressively expound upon and the new handheld TI computer costing nearly $500 that one committee member could not stop fiddling with and remarking upon throughout the meeting.

  158. 158.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:

    In politics you don’t win or change minds by staying away. Even if you get booed you have to take the opportunity to at the very least, try. It may very well be a lost cause, but it might not be. And the act of going there may change the minds of others nearby. Given the closeness of many races and the shittyness of your governor/one of his likely opponents in the next race/hell, just the shittyness of your governor should actually be enough to get his attention. Even  supporters of his shittyness deserve better.

  160. 160.

    Dan B

    @WaterGirl: The Seattle Times has a front page article about the demand for EVs and the long wait times for VW EVs – 15 months.  And the wait should be halved due to the new plant in Chatanooga.  The comments are all about expense and crashing the grid and fires etc.  Seems like Big Oil is freaked out.

  161. 161.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Bupalos:

    Something else is causing a lot of people to grasp at that common thread.

    Bigotry.  Hate.  Cruelty.  White male supremacy is certainly the major thread of it in the US.  Hateful people are happy to throw themselves under the bus if it hurts who they hate.  White women get to punish a lot of people, including many other white women, under white male supremacy.  A significant number of hispanics do not see a white/hispanic divide, they see Republicans hurting other hispanic ethnicities that they hate.  Or hurting women, or queers.  Hell, Trump picked up a tiny but noticeable chunk of black men because he hates women so palpably that hardcore misogynists flock to it.  A party of white male supremacy can share a big chunk of ‘hates who they hate’ attraction with non-white-male groups.

  163. 163.

    cain

    @Betty Cracker: ​
     
    It’s almost always that they over extend themselves and piss off everyone. Americans are the most entitled people I have ever met and want things now.

  165. 165.

    Matt McIrvin

    @sab: Good point. You do still pay a significant premium for EVs, doing an apples-to-apples comparison, but the giant pickups and monster SUVs I see lining up at BJ’s are easily as expensive as a nice electric sedan, or more so (I just checked some prices).

  168. 168.

    Geminid

    @Matt McIrvin: I think the Ford electric pickup trucks will turn a lot of heads when they drive by gas stations and honk. And especially when there’s a power outage and people see their neighbor run their house with their truck

    And once parents understand how much healthier the air is for kids riding in electric school compared to diesel buses, every school district wil want them.

    Electric school buses are more expensive up front but more economical over their life cycle. Like many other parts of the clean energy transition, this is a matter of financing and not cost.

  169. 169.

    cain

    @Ken: ​
     
    You have to wonder. All these car companies have done their research. I would put their market research against these polls any day.

  170. 170.

    cain

    @H.E.Wolf: ahem… King got his non violence mantra from Gandhi. Satyagraha is what we call it. Non cooperation and done at a national scale will bring a government to its knees.

    It’s why govt always investigate peace or non-violent action .. they know.

  171. 171.

    Paul in KY

    @Jackie: The ones that fled Cuba operated fine pre-Castro with an authoritarian dictator. Castro just started allowing the black Cubans to take part in areas of civic life they had formerly been excluded from. That was his main sin (from their standpoint).

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