President Joe Biden lights the National Christmas Tree for the 100th year!!! @wusa9 pic.twitter.com/YOtbk7gCkp
— Darren M. Haynes (@DarrenMHaynes) November 30, 2022
Biden and Macron will dine on lobster, caviar and an Oregon cheese named the best in the world while listening to Grammy-winner Jon Batiste at the US president’s first state dinner tomorrow.@gardnerakayla https://t.co/Q2zuJAcskd
— Jennifer Jacobs (@JenniferJJacobs) November 30, 2022
Biden spoke today to the White House Tribal Nations Summit, announcing $135 million in funding for 11 communities to move to safer ground & pledging continued consultation with tribal communities. He announced he's planning a formal presidential visit to tribal land. pic.twitter.com/4FcbdNY4s5
— Josh Wingrove (@josh_wingrove) November 30, 2022
Per the Washington Post:
SEARCHLIGHT, Nev. — From the highway, Spirit Mountain — a 5,642-foot-high peak — appears gray. But, at times, it glows a majestic pink. For the Fort Mojave and 11 other tribes, these mystical rocks are the site from which their ancestors emerged.
“There’s a spiritual connection that makes us Mojave people,” said Tim Williams, chair of the tribal council. “If it’s not protected, our generation will not have done our job.”
Two decades ago, Congress preserved the mountain — called Avi Kwa Ame (ah-VEE-kwah-may) in Mojave — and 33,000 acres around it as wilderness. Now the Biden administration is readying a proclamation that could put roughly 450,000 acres — spanning almost the entire triangle at the bottom of the Nevada map — off limits to development under the 1906 Antiquities Act.
When finalized, it will probably rank as the largest act of land conservation that President Biden will undertake this term, in a spot within comfortable driving distance of Las Vegas. And although tribes have often been pressured to make concessions in the past, this marks a rare instance in which they have driven the process — bolstered by the support of environmental groups, lawmakers and the rural business community.
At the White House Tribal Nations Summit on Wednesday, Biden committed to conserving the area and noted that he had invoked the Antiquities Act last year to restore protections to three national monuments…
Sitting between the Mojave National Preserve on the California side and Lake Mead National Recreation Area along the border of Nevada and Arizona, this 700-square-mile expanse will allow desert tortoises, bighorn sheep, golden eagles and dozens of other species to live and migrate uninterrupted.
“This is the missing link connecting the Mojave Desert and the Colorado Plateau,” said Neal Desai, a senior project manager for the National Parks Conservation Association who has been working for more than a dozen years to protect the area…
Huge letdown election for Republicans in state legislatures: @Taniel finds GOP picked up just 22 seats nationwide, mostly in places where partisan control was never in question. GOP failed to flip any statehouse chambers, Democrats flipped four. https://t.co/XVJUspYG36
— Alex Burness (@alex_burness) November 30, 2022
Jeffg166
Joe is such a natural. A welcome relief from TFG.
NotMax
Is it lofty, timeless cinema? Nah, but sure is a charming outing. Mrs. Henderson Presents, currently streaming on Tubi, Freevee, Hoopla and Kanopy.
JPL
@NotMax: That was such a good movie.
Betty Cracker
I don’t usually care about state dinner menus, but I had to click through to find out more about the Oregon cheese that was named “best in the world.” It’s Rogue River Blue, and it’s $80 bucks for 18 ounces. Now I have an answer for when a relative asks what I want for Christmas. Thanks, Biden!
SiubhanDuinne
Biden must be even older than the GOP and MSM would have us believe.
MisterDancer
I bought the DVD last year! Fascinating film, on many levels, as is the Windmill Theatre overall.
You, er, might want to note to folx that this is a film about a nude revue set during the London Blitz in WWII. Although not “exploitative,” it doesn’t really shy away from either of those aspects, so you may want to choose your watching/audience accordingly.
Cheryl from Maryland
@Betty Cracker: if they are somewhat cheap, try Cowgirl Creamery blue from Point Reyes, CA. Still expensive but not that expensive. And I love Jon Batiste. Great choice.
Jeffro
@SiubhanDuinne: Ha!
I’m still cheering (quietly, inside) that we have Hakeem Jeffries on our side, and they have…MTG puppet Kevin McCarthy.
Republicans, if that isn’t a wake-up call, I don’t know what is!
Also in good news: I got Worldle (the geography game) in 2 guesses today, then CRUSHED IT in the bonus rounds (4 guesses to name all 4 neighbors, 1/1 to guess the capital, 1/1 to guess the flag). Meanwhile, my kids can probably only name 20 out of the 50* states…ah well…
*or 57, if you ask Obama =P
MisterDancer
This is staggeringly good news that we need to really underline. At least in my estimation, a major reason we’re so far behind the 8 ball is GOP control of these legislators, and the gerrymanding that ensues.
And this also ties into the allyship conversation from last night, which I just read thru. I want to honor those who put that together, and point out that many of the laws flowing out to damage LBGTQIA+ folx wouldn’t, if we have more of these state chambers taken out of conservative control. Same with Women’s Issues and Reproductive Justice.
It seems a very tall order, to say the least. But part of what keeps happening is that “we”get side-swiped by Texas or Florida or Oklahoma or South Carolina coming up with yet another bigoted law. And they do that, in part, to drive the national narrative and inflame hate, no matter the success of said law as a legal effort.
The more states we take out of their hands, the fewer places they have to attack marginalized people.
zhena gogolia
@MisterDancer: Added to watchlist!
Gin & Tonic
@Jeffro: Never knew about the bonus rounds. How do you get there?
Kay
Dispatch from Freedomland:
All school employees must align ideology with DeSantis and Moms for Liberty or they get fired.
Any speech offenses like expressing support for “inclusion” or “equity” are a firing offense.
They’re (arrogantly) confident they can replace all these people with lockstep sycopants. I’m sure they can find enough Right wing nuts to replace those fired in this ideological purge, but they’ll be low quality hires.
Betty Cracker
@Cheryl from Maryland: Will keep an eye out for that — thanks!
@Jeffro: Was just reading a Politico article about the White House making MTG the “face of the GOP” — an excerpt:
It’s not so much that “Republican leadership” is ignoring people like MTG and Jordan — it’s that those lunkheads ARE Republican leadership. Good lord.
Kay
Some of the Trumpists who voted for the DeSantis-owned school board candidates came out to support their local school employees in the hopes they wouldn’t be fired. Oh, well. Live and learn.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
Matt McIrvin
@MisterDancer: The real disaster of the 2010 midterm was the gains Republicans made on the state level, which in many cases they leveraged into outright undemocratic government, with national consequences we are still experiencing in places like Wisconsin and North Carolina.
That that did NOT happen this time is a win. It seems like the story this time was a march toward deepening polarization in places like Texas and Florida, but some of the 2016-era “Blue Wall” losses in the North were actually reversed. After 2016 I was thinking maybe we’d just lost the whole Great Lakes region and it’d turn into deepest red territory. Maybe that’s the continuing trend in Ohio, but it’s not the story in Michigan or Pennsylvania.
MisterDancer
@Kay: From the article
NO THE FUCK THEY DO NOT.
They “support” hacking Parents’ lizard brains to come out and protest the same shit they see on Fox. That’s all this shit is, just as it was when they did it to my Mom, decades ago.
New tools, same damn stupid and enraging playbook. ’cause if just one of those Parents asks for a Right that the Conservative Movement denies, watch how that Parent “suddenly” has no damn rights.
Fuck these people.
Kay
@MisterDancer:
It’s the same disconnect we see nationally – a lot of the parents came out to support the fired employees at the school board meeting where the employees were fired.
They weren’t voting on their actual schools or school employees. They were voting on “owning the libs” and national Republican anti CRT/gay/trans panics.
Oh, well. Now they get whatever bottom of the barrel employees will agree to a strict ideological test and speech monitoring. If you can be summarily fired for the imaginary offense of “supporting CRT” or “being woke”, are you really going to take that job? If you’re any good you’re not. They’ll get low quality.
Matt McIrvin
@MisterDancer: Just like the way “religious freedom” somehow doesn’t extend to religious beliefs that aren’t hateful and bigoted.
Kay
@MisterDancer:
It’s the same disconnect we see nationally – a lot of the parents came out to support the fired employees at the school board meeting where the employees were fired.
They weren’t voting on their actual schools or school employees. They were voting on “owning the libs” and national Republican anti CRT/gay/trans panics.
Oh, well. Now they get whatever bottom of the barrel employees will agree to a strict ideological test and speech monitoring. If you can be summarily fired for the imaginary offense of “supporting CRT” or “being woke”, are you really going to take that job? If you’re any good you’re not. They’ll get low quality.
Kay
@MisterDancer:
Moms for Liberty are really far Right. They’ll overstep and there will be a backlash. The ideological purge is probably an overstep.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Can’t tell you how many articles I’ve read in FL dailies about schools canceling book fairs, removing books from classrooms, peeling rainbow stickers off doors, etc., because teachers and administrators are afraid to run afoul of the far-right authoritarians.
There was an article today about a school district that cancelled an annual (nonreligious) Hanukkah presentation until the mother who had given it every year for a decade pushed back. She threatened to sue the crap out of them because they allowed Christmas stuff everywhere.
I suspect this is all working as intended. The laws are vague, and people know who’s in charge, so most will strip away anything that the “Moms for Liberty” political activists might question to avoid rocking the boat. Talk about self-censorship and cancel culture! Maybe we should start a Substack about the real deal!
Jeffro
@Gin & Tonic: Once you guess the country right, you move on to the bonus rounds.
Jeffro
@Betty Cracker: yeah there is no “making” to be done – congrats, GQP! These are your leaders now, all because you didn’t stand up to trumpov and the Krazy Kaucus.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
There’s a firm belief on the Right that employees are like widgits and can be replaced by plucking another off a shelf – that they’re all of identical quality. It just isn’t true. A good school superintendent is really valuable. Not everyone can do it.
I suspect the finger pointing, anger and buyer’s remorse from the parents starts in week two or three of the new superinentendent search.
Layer8Problem
@NotMax: I had heard about that sort of tableau vivant and it made an engaging story. Charming indeed, and Mr. Jamie Lee Curtis shows up as the Lord Chamberlain.
Lady WereBear
@SiubhanDuinne: Mike and Ike, we think alike.😎
Lady WereBear
@Betty Cracker: That’s the kind of thing you put in something else and stretch it, like noodles stretch tuna.
Lady WereBear
@Cheryl from Maryland: We have a goat dairy in the area. Caramels out of this world.
Aasgard Farm, former home of the artist Rockwell Kent.
https://www.asgaardfarm.com/about
MisterDancer
I suspect you’re right. I suspect, if you look at the new Board members, you’ll find people with next to no understanding of how schools work, but a firm belief that “woke” is why schools suck so badly. That they believe with all their might that “getting back to the basics” is all that’s needed for students to succeed in the complex modern world we live in.
As always, if real kids and real families weren’t in the cross-hairs of these shitty decisions, I’d laugh a lot more.
I also suspect the School Choice assholes will use this chaos to push for the state to fling more taxpayer dollars to make the DeVoses of America even richer, and to get even more students into schools that aren’t subject to any real oversight. Save, of course, by the “right” Parents, and other interested parties.
(Sorry, this isn’t directed at you, Kay. Just feeling my rage, today, after a few really harrowing personal days…)
Lady WereBear
@MisterDancer: How could you have heard about the Monty Python Incident?
Must call the state department…
Betty Cracker
@Kay: In addition to all that, God help us if there’s a new virus, a covid mutation that is super-dangerous for kids or any other type of public health emergency that requires collective action.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Kay: Teachers too. Good teaching takes experience, among other things.
Tenar Arha
@NotMax: 😂 okay, that goes on the list
Gin & Tonic
@Jeffro: Somehow I have never encountered that, and I have a >90% success rate on the countries.
Gin & Tonic
This one is for Betty.
mrmoshpotato
Wait, Biden has actual food on the menu for the state dinner, and not McTrash? It’s like he has an entire kitchen staff at his disposal.
Anyway
@Gin & Tonic:
Me either.
Betty Cracker
@Gin & Tonic: So true — thank you (from the Shrimp Coast)!
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
I think you have the name wrong. The Bloomberg tweet clearly says “featuring Batiste, World’s Best Cheese.”
And I’m a little disappointed that SubaruDianne didn’t point that out.
Betty Cracker
The sheriff of Brevard County, FL (one of the school districts taken over by the DeSantis-backed, hard-right political operatives who campaigned under the “Moms for Liberty” banner) held a press conference a couple of days ago in front of the jail to announce new public school discipline policy. An excerpt:
I’m guessing the current teacher exodus has more to do with the authoritarian takeover than with disruptive behavior in classrooms.
Mai Naem mobile
@MisterDancer: developing countries around the world try to copy the free K-12 old US public school system while we are busy destroying ours. Same goes for relatively cheap public universities. Other countries are trying to copy our system while state legislatures here try to defund to the point where it pretty much becomes college for the wealthy.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I’m bitter about it. I don’t think government should do anything. They want to handle pandemics themselves? Good. Go for it.
I went to the county library system meeting on Monday night and had a conversation with a R about the election. He was really surprised by Michigan because Whitmer is such a figure of scorn on the Right- they portray her as a power-mad, malicious she devil (that again). That this is a Right wing echo chamber view of Big Gretch doesn’t occur to them.
I pointed out to him that DeWine had almost exactly the same directives as Whitmer for most of the pandemic and they all lined up like lemming to vote for him. Whatever their problem with Whitmer it wasn’t pandemic policy, or DeWine would have been demonized too.
Lady WereBear
@Kay: This makes me angry because when I went to high school in Florida (it’s true that it was offered in a bigoted manner, and had to be locked down in homeroom for lunch but hey!)
But I got AP classes and prep for college even though we were poor.
Aspiration is going to be out of reach to everyone in Florida who can’t send their kid to an actual academic school.
Mai Naem mobile
@Betty Cracker: i can just imagine the Fox News comments about the Bidens eating caviar and lobster while hard working Americans can’t afford white bread tuna sandwiches because of Biden caused inflation.
mali muso
@MisterDancer: Hope that you are ok. Just wanted to say that I appreciate your perspectives and am glad to see you posting.
On the topic of school superintendents, my daughter’s district is currently looking for one, after the newly elected RW school board slashed the budget and the (apparently quite good) prior superintendent noped out. This is our first year in the system (Kindergarten) and I’m watching with concern.
OzarkHillbilly
FTFY.
narya
@Betty Cracker: Or ask for Rush Creek Reserve, now for sale in limited quantities.
MisterDancer
@Betty Cracker:
I know I talk a LOT about Jim Crow. And it’s not like corporal punishment wasn’t the norm across America, for a long while.
Yet there’s something to the idea that Conservatism wants to rule by fear. And that using rulers on students — or worse — starts that training. As someone who got the switch (hit with a thin tree branch) a few times from my Mom, and paddled in Catholic school as a young kid, I know I used to say it didn’t affect me…until I sat down and really thought thru my relationship with my Mom and The Church.
If I’m living in fear, that analysis would be kept to myself.Or maybe I’m under too much trauma to even start it. Fear of pain, keeping me in line, as it did my ancestors.
So yeah, it’s not a shock that an Authoritarian regime wants to indoctrinate into children the fear of physical violence — and the idea that people’s actions should be controlled thru violent acts, and that such punishments should be the norm.
You know, like with guns.
Soprano2
@Kay: Just more people who confidently thought those people weren’t actually going to do what they clearly said they were going to do. At our last school board election there was one of these people who was a “stealth” candidate – he refused to answer any questions about issues like book banning and CRT/DEI issues directly, but once he was elected the mask came off and he’s now on local talk radio interviewing people who align with the book banners and anti-DEI people. To me these are the most dangerous candidates, because they masquerade as normal and can fool most people into voting for them.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I was reading the fancy Right wing mommies on Twitter – the CNN ‘analysts” and Substackers- they’re all still outraged about covid – and I can’t figure out to what end someone like Gretchen Whitmer would create a covid totalitarian state (what they allege). WHY did she put in unnecessary covid restrictions? In what possible way did that benefit her politically or even ideologically?
I don’t think they understand politicians. They’re overthinking this, ya know, in a dumb way.
kalakal
@Jeffro: Never heard of that one, it’s rather fun, thanks. Didn’t get the flag, boo!
Soprano2
The GM at my first full-time job really believed this. The job that I did took at least 2 years to learn well, and probably 3 to get really good at, yet he thought he could easily hire anyone off the street to replace us! It was delusional. The person they replaced me with when I left failed the mandatory drug test (but they hired him anyway) and had already claimed he needed to be absent for a relative’s funeral before I even left! I sometimes wonder how long he lasted and whether they actually got any quality work out of him at all.
Ken
Somewhere on twitter I recently saw an exchange where a RWNJ thought they were making a brilliant point about inclusivity, and got utterly demolished in four words. Something like:
RWNJ: “What would people say if we had an entire month devoted to Christianity, with TV shows and schools and stores and government agencies shoving Christian stories and symbols and songs down our throats 24 hours a day?”
Response: “We call that December.”
Jeffro
@Gin & Tonic:
@Anyway:
Hmmm. Is this maybe a browser/cache/cookie thing? I’ve been doing bonus rounds for a couple months now.
Lady WereBear
@Soprano2: You mean the people who say, “They’re just saying that to get elected.”
I use Betty Crackers holiday tip: ask them to explain. They not only can’t, attempting to brings them near self-awareness.
That can be something to observe.
Kay
@Soprano2:
This shows up in polling on public schools over and over, and has for thirty years.
Everyone went to school so everyone has an opinion on them, but when they’re asked about THEIR local school they generally give it good marks (if they use it). The Florida Right wing parents thought Fox and Moms for Liberty were talking about other schools, which are all CRT infested hellholes.
The polling on public schools didn’t budge during covid. This huge parent uprising against schools was never reflected in polling. People still rated their local schools as “good”.
Jeffro
@Kay: we can tell them and tell them and tell them, but very few will ever be able to bring themselves to realize the obvious – they’re in the FauxBubble, and they’re being lied to/fearmongered to on a daily/hourly/up-to-the-minute basis.
Our own home-grown North Koreans, these people.
See also: Portland in ashes, ‘red tsunami’, etc etc etc
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: I can’t tell you how many people I know who think if only we could bring spanking back to schools all the disciplinary problems would magically disappear. As if the threat of getting three swats on the butt is magically going to make kids all start behaving perfectly. It’s so dumb.
Jeffro
@Soprano2: so basically Glenn Youngkin, then? 😠
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I was suprised when DeWine closed schools. I didn’t think anyone would close schools and especially him. But it never occurred to me that he closed schools as some kind of authoritarian control measure because that doesn’t make any sense to me. I think it’s ridiculous. But this is the majority theory on the Right- that governors closed schools in order to boss them around. It’s fucked up.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I was suprised when DeWine closed schools. I didn’t think anyone would close schools and especially him. But it never occurred to me that he closed schools as some kind of authoritarian control measure because that doesn’t make any sense to me. I think it’s ridiculous. But this is the majority theory on the Right- that governors closed schools in order to boss them around. It’s fucked up.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
I was suprised when DeWine closed schools. I didn’t think anyone would close schools and especially him. But it never occurred to me that he closed schools as some kind of authoritarian control measure because that doesn’t make any sense to me. I think it’s ridiculous. But this is the majority theory on the Right- that governors closed schools in order to boss them around. It’s fucked up.
Soprano2
@Kay: They think it was liberal’s way of trying to control them, and they hate the idea that any liberal could control anything they do ever. You know many of them are obsessed with the idea that someday a liberal president is going round them all up and put them in concentration camps – same thing. It’s why they were so outraged by what the MI governor did re: Covid and yet voted for the Ohio governor who did almost the same thing.
Soprano2
@Ken: OMG that is hilarious, talk about a completely unaware person!
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Ken: My DIL’s school didn’t even have Halloween decorations because they had a number of Jehovah Witness children whose parents objected. Things seem to vary so crazily
Soprano2
@Jeffro: Yes, basically. Of course, he can only do that once, now that he’s been revealed he can’t campaign as just a normal concerned parent again.
Kay
@Jeffro:
If Whitmer exercises the power of her office she is immediately tagged as a control freak authoritarian. DeWine does the same? Just fine with Right wingers.
We’ve seen this she devil framing before! It’s because this country is backwards – behind- on womens rights and Whitmer is female. She’s secretly malicious- another scheming, ambitious female.
Kay
@Jeffro:
If Whitmer exercises the power of her office she is immediately tagged as a control freak authoritarian. DeWine does the same? Just fine with Right wingers.
We’ve seen this she devil framing before! It’s because this country is backwards – behind- on womens rights and Whitmer is female. She’s secretly malicious- another scheming, ambitious female.
Kay
@Jeffro:
If Whitmer exercises the power of her office she is immediately tagged as a control freak authoritarian. DeWine does the same? Just fine with Right wingers.
We’ve seen this she devil framing before! It’s because this country is backwards – behind- on womens rights and Whitmer is female. She’s secretly malicious- another scheming, ambitious female.
Kay
@Jeffro:
If Whitmer exercises the power of her office she is immediately tagged as a control freak authoritarian. DeWine does the same? Just fine with Right wingers.
We’ve seen this she devil framing before! It’s because this country is backwards – behind- on womens rights and Whitmer is female. She’s secretly malicious- another scheming, ambitious female.
Lady WereBear
@Soprano2: Their brains have been so indoctrinated they work not that well. Add in the spoiled children of the rich and we go back to leeches in 2-3 generations.
Even Mao had to back off killing all the intellectuals.
SoupCatcher
@Gin & Tonic:
There’s a button underneath which is nestled in ads and text. It was off the screen on my mobile so I missed it for weeks until I accidentally scrolled down.
Round 1 is neighbors. You need to get some/most of these correct to display the button for the next one. Round 2 is capital. Round 3 is flag.
I enjoy the neighbor guessing as much as country guessing. Capital, not so much.
japa21
@Kay:
Fixed.
Betty Cracker
@Kay: DeSantis closed schools too! This has been completely memory-holed, but it’s true. Also bars, restaurants, etc. He reopened them earlier than many states did, but in March 2020, DeSantis was apparently gripped by the same authoritarian impulse that animates Gov. Whitmer! ;-)
The Thin Black Duke
@Kay: Stupidity is a choice. They’re stuck in a rut because their neural pathways only go in one direction. Never mind thinking “outside the box”, these idiots don’t want to do any thinking inside the box.
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: It’s gone completely down the memory hole how scared everyone was in March and April 2020 because so much about who was affected by Covid was unknown. As soon as the stories came out about how mostly it was minorities in the big cities who were getting sick and dying, lots of white people said “It’s not about us, open all our stuff up again!”, and that’s what people remember. I also think it’s bad how little attention it got that children’s learning was equally affected regardless of whether they went back to the classroom right away or stayed with remote learning longer. All the time and energy devoted to debating which was worse for kids, and in the end it didn’t seem to matter either way at least where learning was concerned. I would say that based on what the teachers I know have told me remote learning was really bad for kid’s socialization.
Chris
Since this is an open thread and you’ve been talking about schools, random question:
I just got off the weekly unofficial-but-you’d-better-be-there-anyway call for my department at work, and since the topic was “good work practices: recognition of people when they’ve done a good job,” the conversation wandered onto the topic of participation trophies and how really kids these days at school shouldn’t get a trophy just for playing, trophies are for winning…
I have no kids, and I never went to American schools before college, so I have to ask: is this actually in any way a real thing? I don’t really care if it is and find the moral panic over it incredibly tedious, but… it really does come off like one of those right wing just-so stories. It’s similar to the hippies-spitting-on-the-troops stories in that it’s something you always hear discussed in general rather than specific or anecdotal terms. I’ve never heard anybody say “oh, let me tell you about this thing that happened at my kids’ school the other day;” it’s always “this is a thing that Society is doing These Days, isn’t it awful?”
OzarkHillbilly
@Kay: I think your finger has picked up a stutter. ;-)
Chris
@Soprano2:
Eh, I heard them discussing it right off the bat. One of the people I unfriended on Facebook that spring was an idiot who kept prattling on about states’ rights and how “okay this is a problem in some big cities but it hasn’t spread to us in the country yet, there’s no reason we should have to play by their rules, OMG why can’t you just let local government tailor its approach to its own particular problems?”
PST
@OzarkHillbilly: No, that’s been happening all the time since Elon Musk bought Balloon Juice.
Matt McIrvin
@Chris: My daughter participated in the strange, racket-ish world of regional dance competitions for a while, and the awards handed out for those things were insanely inflated such that every team could count on going home with some shiny medals. But everyone seemed to know what the deal really was: some were better than others.
These participation trophies supposedly began with my generation; the closest thing to one I remember getting was a nice trophy for being part of a champion neighborhood T-ball team. But the team had honestly dominated the league–I just wasn’t that instrumental a part of it. (We had, like, two kids who could actually throw, catch and run, and nobody else did.)
Eolirin
@MisterDancer: This also applies to the savaging of social services for the disabled community.
See also the Mississippi stadium scandal.
Betty Cracker
@MisterDancer: I know corporal punishment in public schools was thing in FL until at least the mid-1980s. At one school I attended, the principal displayed a paddle on a peg in the front office and noted that it had holes drilled in it so he could swing it with more speed.
It didn’t occur to me that this was fucked up at the time. Parents swatting their kids was commonplace back then, including my dad. I thought we (society) had evolved past that bullshit, but maybe not?
Soprano2
@Chris: Where I live people were pretty cooperative until the beginning of May 2020. I think that’s when Fox News was telling them it was only happening in big cities, so people in small towns had nothing to worry about. I can’t tell you how many times I heard variations of “We don’t live on top of each other like they do in the big cities so it won’t hurt us”, implying that only those dirty people in those dirty cities were going to get sick. Well, we all know how that turned out….
SFAW
@Betty Cracker:
I’d say you were full of shit, asswipe.
What if I told you, asswipe, that all the “destruction” in cities like Portland was actually caused by RWMFs like yourself, as part of a “false flag” operation, to get your idiot brethren to believe the progressives were the ones who did it? What if I told you that Donald Trump has a shrine to Adolf Hitler in a hidden room at Mar-a-Lardo? etc etc
Sorry, just have limited tolerance for bullshit like that.
OzarkHillbilly
It is, but it’s not trophies from what I’ve seen, it’s medals*. Just a small thing to encourage a child to stick with something even if it is hard for them. The rewards of getting better can be forgotten if only the best of the best get lauded.
*my son was in gymnastics, every year his gym had each child perform during a “meet” (NOT a competition) so they could show their parents how they were getting better. They all got medals. The gym also had a team that DID compete. Only there were gold, silver, and bronze medals awarded.
My eldest granddaughter does English style horseback riding and steeplechase. They all get ribbons colored for 1st thru 5th or 6th place. My GD has never placed 1st but that is probably due to the fact that she has a soft spot in her heart for independent horses (I have the same for independent people) you know, the ones who always rebel just a little? Anyway, she will never reach the Olympics, but she loves horses and riding them, and if receiving a green ribbon instead of a yellow helps to encourage her to stick with it and be the best she can be… Well, fuck anybody who has a problem with it.
Kay
@The Thin Black Duke:
If they said “she devil closed schools then ordered us to homeschool CRT” it would make some sense.
They all went home, presumably to their Right wing parents and households. Where’s the indoctrination part?
“They got us used to taking orders (wearing masks) then said ‘you must KILL all the Republicans’.
They got us used to wearing masks and then…did nothing else. I don’t know what their theory is. It just sort of trails off.
Quiltingfool
@Kay: My aunt (by marriage) was a superintendent for a large district in Florida (can’t remember which district). She retired, had fun with ballroom dancing competitions (very cool, I thought). Sadly, she died from pancreatic cancer a few years ago.
I just found out the district named a high school after her! (Gail McKinzie). She was one sharp cookie and I expect that if she were still a superintendent she’d probably be on the chopping block.
Gin & Tonic
@SoupCatcher: I don’t see any such button, nor any ads. The lowest thing on the screen is the “buy me a coffee” thing. Current Safari on an iPhone.
The Moar You Know
@Chris: No. It’s a fucking ludicrous lie, but the right SO wants it to be true that they just will not stop repeating it no matter how many times they’re shown it’s bullshit.
Soprano2
@Betty Cracker: My dad had one of those paddles in his office at school, and he kept one on the bus when he drove a school bus. It was a totally normal thing in the ’60’s and ’70’s.
Miss Bianca
@Betty Cracker: We have evolved a little, and that’s why it’s shocking to us that the pendulum is swinging back towards Corporal Violence Towards Kids Is a Good Thing, You Hippie! in some circles.
I was in the generation that got regularly paddled or otherwise physically disciplined when I was a kid, and when I see people of my generation defending the practice in “never did me any harm!” sort of terms, I can only come to the conclusion that it’s some form of PTSD.
Chris
@OzarkHillbilly:
Yeah, that’s part of the non-specificity that annoys me, actually: like, what do these people mean when they say “everybody gets a trophy?” (There are never details). Do they mean that everybody gets the same prize at the end no matter how they played? Well okay, I can see how that could be upsetting and/or wrong. Or do they mean that the winners still get the trophy (the gold – and silver and bronze – medals in this case), but that the losers get a small token for having played as well? Because if it’s the latter, seriously, fuck you: you’re not mad because people who did well aren’t being rewarded and singled out, because that’s clearly still happening, you’re just mad (in what’s become a familiar pattern in this country) that anybody else is getting anything at all.
As is usually the case, I suspect the vagueness is the point – you’re supposed to infer that what’s going on is the former, when in reality it’s the latter, but they can’t just come out and say it because that would make them sound like the world’s most petty and vindictive assholes.
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: They also believe with great certainty that the kids who have disciplinary problems in the first place are the ones whose parents don’t hit them–something for which as far as I know there is no shred of evidence.
The most absurd manifestation of this I ever saw was an op-ed from around the time of the first Gulf War speculating that Saddam Hussein had liberal parents who didn’t spank.
Leto
@Betty Cracker: did you see the video of the guy who bought approx 2/3 of a WHEEL of Parmesan cheese for $10? Not a slice, but almost an entire wheel. His wife, in a teasing way, was like wtf are we going to do with that? It was 44lbs of cheese. Best mismarked price ever. Currently, a wheel of parm is approximately $1500.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chris: I think a lot of organized competitions give everyone a prize but the winner gets the biggest one, because they won. I run tennis camps and that’s what we do with our tournament winners at the end of the week. They get like 5 prizes where everyone else only gets one. But there’s nothing unfair or outrageous about it. The kids who had no real talent or chance of winning the tournament are often the ones who I am most impressed with and proud of because they stuck with it for five days in 90 degree heat, doing something they have no real skill for and usually do so without any complaint. They usually are better behaved, paid better attention and improved more than the players that were the winners. It’s not their fault that they are smaller, weaker or less coordinated etc., than some of their peers. The whole idea that people would be mad that we celebrate and encourage the effort of these kids and not just the “winners” makes no sense to me and anyone who feels that way is an immature weirdo, imo.
Ken
@Soprano2: Ah, yes, the old “We’re all spread out” claim. If it were true, they’d never catch the flu either…
The problem of course is the qualifier, “except on Sunday when everyone in the county is in one of three churches, and on Saturday when everyone in the greater tri-county area is in the Walmart.”
Leto
@Soprano2: @Matt McIrvin: say you beat/abuse your children without saying you beat/abuse your children. They want to instill fear and immediate obedience/control into children. Very conservative thought process.
UncleEbeneezer
@The Moar You Know: My Sister’s friend pulled this shit at a dinner a few years ago and I nearly lost it. I told her that I’m a tennis coach and I actually run tournaments and the whole Everyone Gets A Trophy thing is a fucking BS myth and she was just like “no, it’s true.” I had actual experience, she had nothing but rumors. And she was a pretty solid, liberal so it’s definitely not just a MAGA misconception.
UncleEbeneezer
@Chris: And the thing is, it’s the parents, not the kids who are outraged. I’ve never seen a kid who won the tournament get mad about the fact that everyone else got a small prize compared to their much bigger (or multiple) prizes. It’s just no big deal to them. And in fact, many times, they will give a couple prizes to other students/friends.
TriassicSands
Oh, c’mon, the president is only 80 years old, he couldn’t have lit the tree 100 times.
Eolirin
@Leto: Helps to normalize domestic abuse as well I’d wager.
@Matt McIrvin: Pretty sure what evidence we do have runs in the opposite direction even.
Baud
@TriassicSands:
They’re counting all the trees he burned down during the War on Christmas.
Betty Cracker
@Leto: I missed that story. Man, what lucky duckies!
OzarkHillbilly
Yeah, I’ve been a part of those conversations and I’ve always shut them down with a very emphatic, “Fuck you, it did harm to me.”
The problem is that it opens the door to truly abusive behavior and once that door is opened, it’s not so easily closed again. I had a nun who engaged in abusive behavior every damned day. At the time I thought it was just me she hated because I was so often the target. Eventually I figured out that no, she hated all of us. Maybe I was especially sensitive to it, but I wasn’t the only one who left with a mark on them.
gene108
@Soprano2:
I graduated high school 30 years ago, we didn’t have corporal punishment back then.
I think, when I was in middle school in NC, it might’ve been an option because a couple of teachers had paddles and they made a brief “you don’t want me to take that down” speech at the start of year, but they were just props that were never used.
How damn old are these people that went schools that had corporal punishment? There’s been at least two generations of students, who never had to worry about corporal punishment.
Matt McIrvin
@Leto: Some of it might be sublimated guilt: if it’s not terribly, gravely important that they hit their children, then… they’re just abusers. That can’t be, so there’s this huge wall of resistance.
Soprano2
@Quiltingfool: My dad was a school teacher, a coach, a bus driver, principal, and a superintendent (not all at the same time, though!). He would be horrified by what’s going on with these right-wingers right now. He was conservative, but he wouldn’t brook this kind of interference that has no actual purpose. He would also be angry about the demonization of teachers – he always had their backs, it was one reason most of them liked him.
gene108
I graduated high school 30 years ago. I never worried about corporal punishment.
It might’ve been allowed, when I was in middle school in NC. A couple of teachers started the year by showing off a paddle and talking about discipline, but those paddles were just props. They were never used.
I think there’s probably a couple of generations of students, who have completed high school without worrying about corporal punishment in schools. For most people, it’s an abstraction or some romantic vision of a glorious past that never truly was.
Matt McIrvin
@OzarkHillbilly: I do the flip side of that: I was never corporally punished, neither by my parents nor by any other authority figure, and I’m pretty confidence that this lack did me NO moral harm–as a child I was an almost absurd goody-two-shoes. I suppose it could be argued that if I’d been knocked around a little I’d have developed more healthy antagonism toward authority.
(I did get abused by my peers quite a bit and am still carrying around a lot of baggage arising from that decades later. Some of these same people, though, believe that school bullying is a character-building moral good.)
Soprano2
I think it comes from the same place as fraternity/sorority alums who defend hazing as “well, I lived through it so it can’t be that bad”. People think if they were ok with something, obviously everyone should be OK with it.
OzarkHillbilly
My class was the prime example of the exact opposite effect. We terrorized that school. Nobody was safe from our depredations. When I was in the 6th grade I picked a fight with an 8th grader who was a head taller than me for no reason at all other than I was pissed and somebody was gonna pay for it. Beat the shit out of the poor kid, always felt bad about it. I remember at the time I was like, “WTF are they gonna do? Put me in Sister Kathleen’s class?”
Shit, suspend me, please.
Yutsano
This is a definite not good…
Chris
@UncleEbeneezer:
Oh, yeah. Kids are malleable; they don’t know what they’re supposed to be outraged about until society teaches them. The “think of the children!” hysterics are always about the parents.
OzarkHillbilly
@Matt McIrvin: My parents yanked me out after the 6th grade. Many years later my mother apologized to me. Said she knew something was wrong but didn’t know what. That none of her children ever said much but that I just shut down completely. I suspect my mother finally figured it out when the archdiocese shipped the nun off to Colombia after a particularly egregious incident.
I had no idea what to say to Ma when she apologized, probably just, “It’s OK Ma, it was a long time ago.” It was, but I still remember it like it was yesterday.
Soprano2
@Ken: Yep, I would point out to them that they all go to the same WalMart and the same restaurant and the same churches, so that if a few people get sick everyone is going to get sick. They usually have K-12 schools (like the one I went to) where all the kids are in one building together, too.
Soprano2
@UncleEbeneezer: Shoot, my grandmother used to give me a small present when it was my sister’s birthday! I guess right-wingers would think that was a bad thing.
Soprano2
@OzarkHillbilly: I had a co-worker who told me one of the brothers at the Catholic school they went to beat her brother so badly he ended up in the hospital! She said her parents were those “never contradict the priest he’s always right” kind of Catholics, but this was too far for her father. He visited the brother and told him that if he ever laid a finger on any of their kids again he would bring charges. Then they took their kids out of that school and enrolled them in public school. My co-worker told me she never said anything in class when she was in Catholic school because she was terrified of the nuns; her only good years in school were the ones in public school. I think many nuns were probably made to teach school when that wasn’t what they wanted to do or were good at, which would explain a lot about the abusive behavior.
Soprano2
I always think these people were the bullies in their school, because if they had been a target of the bullying they would never think it was “good”. I still suffer from automatically thinking people won’t like me because of things that happened when I was in junior high school, and I’m 61!
UncleEbeneezer
@Soprano2: Taker!!! Ayn Rand is rolling over in her grave, lol.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Miss Bianca:
I can honestly say that I have heard people grumbling about the removal of corporal punishment from schools since it happened. They never really believed it was a good idea and ANY time a child acts up or is disrespectful to their elders, they blame the lack of corporal punishment. I grew up in rural schools that used it liberally. There still were kids who acted up and were disrespectful, despite the regular beatings, at home and in the principals office. I don’t understand why these people never seem to remember that.
cain
@MisterDancer:
We need to intensely focus on at least getting the SoS and AG and the supreme court – it has been shown that without having these three we won’t have a chance to flip these legislations.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Just heard on NPR that there is “bipartisan support’ in the Senate for adding sick leave to the railroad settlement, but they didn’t name any names. Have any of those trying to position themselves as more pro-labor than Biden repeated their support since Pelosi announced the second bill? I know Cornyn has gone all small-gov’t.
BruceFromOhio
@OzarkHillbilly:
Knew guys like that, hung out with some of them. It was like nothing mattered, so nothing could hurt or harm.
Ken
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Tricky. How do you convince someone that “My parents beat me regularly and it didn’t cause me any problems” is a self-refuting statement?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Chris: Also, the word “trophy” implies they’re talking about sports. IMHO, people are really competitive re sports
cain
@Kay:
Expect grift as well. It will suddenly require more money for the superintendent and staff.
opiejeanne
@UncleEbeneezer: My girls went to a lot of dance competitions, almost all run by independent companies, and one company decided that everyone would be given a first place, almost no matter what they did on the stage. But the one thing they did to clarify ranking was that when they read the names, they also read the score totals for each kid or group, and they read them in order from high to low. The kids who won didn’t care (my kids were frequently winners of their categories), but the parents figured it out. Our studio owner was clueless about that bit and a little disgusted that “everyone got a trophy” until I pointed out the scores I’d written in my program from the competition.
We loved the owners of that competition before they changed to that format, and still loved them afterwards because they really did treat the kids well, and tried to be fair to the kids.
I could tell stories, oh yes, about one or two other competitions.
Ken
@cain: “But he was on the governor’s staff for years. You can’t expect someone like that to work for the previous salary!”
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: Sometimes the victims just end up waiting for the time when they’ll be in a position of power so they can be the bully. I remember noting that when I was a little kid in the first grade, walking home from school with some other kids. The older children would pick on the younger ones, and I noticed there were two kinds of reactions the little kids had–some would say “when I get bigger I’ll never pick on little kids,” but others would say “I can’t wait until I’m big and I can do that.”
OzarkHillbilly
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Color me skeptical there are 10 GOPs in the Senate willing to sign on.
@BruceFromOhio: You get that way. It took me a long time to bury it but it’s still there. It’s a thing I can never allow free rein.
OzarkHillbilly
@opiejeanne: Who knew that recognizing every child’s accomplishments with kindness, no matter how small they may be, would be so controversial.
Leto
@Betty Cracker: the unadulterated joy in this man’s face. I feeeel it!
https://www.thepoke.co.uk/2022/11/24/giant-cheese-bargain-impulse-buy/
gene108
@Soprano2:
From the small sample size of children I know, it did hurt socialization skills. Kids more so than adults are social creatures, who are generally eager and willing to make friends.
On the other hand, would it be worse if more kids contracted COVID in reopened schools? There was a point during last year’s Omicron wave that 20% or more of students were out sick. Teachers were also out sick. Anecdotal, but my nephew was in 11th grade then, and for at least one class he and other kids were just put in the auditorium as a study hall.
I think with original COVID and the more contagious and/or deadly strains, there’s just a trade off and there’d be some level of disruption no matter what.
James E Powell
Twitter says the IRS turned over Trump’s tax returns. Have to admit, never thought I’d see the day. I’d like to see them published so we can finally see what he has been hiding all these years.
cain
@gene108: My generation definitely got spanked. I had a year in India where I went to a catholic school. I’ve never been spanked at school before – and I found Fridays terrifying for me because it was PT (physical training) and the school would do school wide exercise with some dude beating a drum. The PT instructors would walk around casually with a bamboo stick – occasionally whipping some kids ass. I got it once and boy did it hurt.
It certainly made an impression on me – never to do that to a child. The casual cruelty is what got me.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@James E Powell: IANAL but as I recall they could only become public if there were an official court proceeding and they were part of the evidence? The very sober-sided Carol Leonnig said she expects leaks, but I’ve always been skeptical of a smoking gun in those returns. trump’s grifting has always been right out there in the open.
UncleEbeneezer
@opiejeanne: Right but that’s what I mean. There is ALWAYS differentiation between the winners, the runners-up etc., in every competition. The only thing that changes is the format or prize. Even if it’s just announcing “Student X is the winner!” or highlighting who got the most points. And even if the adult or organization doesn’t do so, you can be damn sure the kids will, lol. Even when we play games and they ask “who won?” I’ll tell them “there is no winner in this game, it’s just about learning this skill” they will counter with various versions of “but I made the most shots etc.” in a playful, not mean, way. So this idea that the right-wing pushes that competitions have become oppressively egalitarian and nobody knows who the better players/competitors are, is just utter bullshit.
My sister is in the dance competition cult with her daughter. They travel all over the country for it. I find it rather hilarious because her school and dance troupe is painfully white and doing Hip Hop dance despite the fact that I doubt any of them has even a cursory knowledge of actual hip hop music/culture. I also feel really bad that almost every vacation my sister takes has to revolve around going to dance competitions but whatevs, it’s her life and she’s supporting her kid. Better her then me. Always makes me think of Sparkle Magic from the movie Donnie Darko, lol
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Ken: I don’t think you can.
James E Powell
@Betty Cracker:
I decided to buy some for my chef brother in law. I’m going to get one of the cheddars to round out the package.
James E Powell
@Ken:
No shit. I will avoid the TMI of my own story and just say, no shit.
gvg
@Betty Cracker: I went to public schools in Florida starting in 1969 and I don’t ever recall corporal punishment. It certainly wasn’t allowed at my schools by the mid 70’s and that was loudly stated. Some parents made a big fuss but a lot of parents just didn’t trust other people to know when to punish their kids. My cousins more rural schools in Alachua county seemed to have done it longer but not that much longer. I was in Orlando by 4th grade. I suspect it varied by county and possibly by school.
kalakal
@Soprano2:
Except for the age ( I’m 62) & type of school I relate to every word of this. I went through a phase between the ages of 12 & 16 where I put on a lot of weight & was bullied a lot*. I’ve had a very unhealthy relationship with food ever since & still assume people don’t really like me
*it was an English public school, you’re there 24/7, there is no escape during term time.
jeffreyw
@SiubhanDuinne: I came to the thread late, wondering how long it would take to see this joke. Well done!
Betty Cracker
@gvg: Got curious and googled it, and according to this 2021 article in the Monticello News, the state left corporal punishment up to school districts in 1989, and as of 2021, it’s still allowed in 19 Florida districts. A viral video of a 2021 paddling in Hendry County prompted the article.
Soprano2
@gene108: IMHO there were two problems the whole time this was happening a) people couldn’t agree on the proper and most effective mitigation factors, and b) many schools didn’t have the money to do what was necessary for in-person school to happen safely. I just listened to an “On Point” episode from September where NPR education reporter Anya Kamenetz was interviewed about her new book “The Stolen Year” about the 2020-2021 school year. They talked about a lot of things, including parents and kids and teachers and teacher’s unions and public health officials and who should have been making the decisions about schools. You know the one thing that was NEVER touched on? The fact that in half of the country we had howler monkeys who refused to entertain the idea that we needed effective mitigation measures like face masks, smaller classes, spacing between students and adequate ventilation, and that this is why in many places we were unable to have in-person school as soon as we should have. There also wasn’t much talk about how there are lots of adults in those schools too, and although Covid might not have been that dangerous to kids many adults were dying of it, and many school teachers are in the 50-60 year age range. There was absolutely no mention of how many people thought teachers were selfish for not wanting to risk death just to be in a classroom with people’s kids!
Soprano2
@kalakal: My school wasn’t 24 hours like that, but it was small – 30+ kids in my class, and K-12 so we were all in one building – so I couldn’t get away from them or form other groups of friends or even transfer to another high school! I was trapped at school with them for the duration. I didn’t feel like I had a “normal” high school experience until I was a senior.
Gravenstone
“It apparently fucked you up badly enough that you can’t recognize child abuse even though you are a victim of it.”
Mo MacArbie
That much cheese, huh?
TriassicSands
@Baud:
Yeah, but now the fascists will be claiming Biden is really 100+ years old and that statement is the “strongest” evidence they’ve had in decades about any of their claims. Expect GOP voters to be convinced Biden is at least 120 and perhaps 135 or 140 based on the undeniable evidence at hand. Plausibility and believability are two entirely different things to Republicans.