Hey folks, it’s exciting to be here.
My name is Eddie, and I’m not just a long-term lurker on Balloon-Juice, but also your unofficial resident Balloon-Juice artist. Back in 08, I made the original Tunch OBEY shirts and the drawings of Lily and Rosie that are still available in the BJ store. The angelic cat image that so often pops up on this page was a drawing I made for Cole back when Tunch went to kitty heaven in the sky, and it always makes me smile to see it.
I am extremely politically active, which I channel through my art. I’m a full-time artist for a living, primarily working as a director-choreographer, visual artist, and writer. I also teach courses in public speaking, directing, movement, and story-crafting. I have been really lucky to find a way of life where I am always fundamentally giving back to the world. In the last fourteen years, John has offered me the keys to the blog numerous times, and numerous times I have begun to draft something, chickened out, and gone back to lurking. I generally much prefer to be a behind-the-scenes kind of person…
But I can’t just exist lately… because I am trans. My very existence is deemed political. Not a day goes by where I don’t experience anti-trans propaganda. New anti-trans laws are being proposed and signed into law at a hysterical pace, politicians are building their entire platforms on eradicating trans folks, and newspapers like The NY Times and WaPo write furiously about the “trans debate.” Even the Pope decided to take a shot today!
To which I’ll say: There is no trans debate for me. I exist. I can’t “take sides” here, and the way the media is framing transgender issues is deeply harmful and painful.
Last Friday, I had coffee with a friend of mine, a very liberal older gay man who had a lot of concerns and questions about “gender affirming care” for children. I spent the next two hours breaking things down for him about what exactly that process looks like as someone who not only transitioned themselves as an adult, but what exactly we are talking about when it comes to gender affirming care for children. He told me that he learned so much and was surprised at how much the media was misrepresenting these issues, and he wished that more people could just sit down with me and learn from my experience, expertise, and resources.
So here I am! My goal as a poster is to provide more resources for all of you so that you can better understand how to argue when someone tries to “debate” trans rights. I will also field questions that come up in the comments when I have the time, although I really hate your commenting system (sorry, John) so I will likely always answer them within posts themselves. There is SO much information and there is SO much going on right now, that it’s hard to find a place to start, so I’ll begin by simply offering you the TedX talk I gave in 2020 that will give you a rundown of my own story and answer some of the questions people most commonly have about being trans.
I use they/them pronouns mostly, which was first used as a singular pronoun in the English Language by Geoffrey Chaucer around 1390, and was commonly used as a singular pronoun until the Victorian era. However, if you struggle with what you feel is a plural pronoun, you’re also welcome to use xe, xer, xers (pronounced ze, zer, zers, and used like “she, her, hers”). I find that once you offer the grammar police a new pronoun, they rapidly shut up. And for anyone saying, “THESE NEWFANGLED PRONOUNS,” xe has been in usage since the 1970s, so they can either shut the fuck up, or use the phonetically identical pronoun “Ze” which was first used in the 1840s.
I speak four languages and love history, linguistics, and kindly proving people wrong. Let’s dance.
I have some posts planned already, but please ask questions in the comments. I’m very good at providing great answers to “gotcha” questions, so feel free to make requests to boost your arsenal against anti-trans rhetoric. Forgive me as I figure out posting etiquette like how to add a category that is just “trans rights,” and make a “below the fold” link, which I swear I’ll know next time…
Here is also my CAT / ART TAX. His name is Baby, and he’s been around for about 16 years. We’ve had some crazy adventures, including him once escaping from his carrier on a place during take-off. If there is interest, Baby would be pleased to share more pics and stories.
Baud
Good thing you remembered the cat picture, and things would have gone south quickly
ETA: Welcome. Glad to have a fresh FP around here.
planet eddie
@Baud: I’m a lurker, not a fool. :)
Bill K
Hi!
Baud
You know, when the right-wing focused on the gay, they at least had some Bible quotes they could lean on. The trans hate seems to be purely secular.
Trans Republicans really blow my mind. I know Log Cabin Republicans have been a thing for forever, but this seems different.
TEL
Thank you Eddie – it’s lovely to “meet” the artist behind the halo kitty picture and others. I look forward to your future posts. And I definitely want more Baby photos and artwork!
BruceFromOhio
Yes, let’s! I’m supportive, ignorant and receptive, and welcome your words. And Baby’s adventures.
TEL
I also want to make a point to thank you for taking the time to educate us Jackals on the politics and the reality behind being trans. It’s terrifying and confusing seeing the complete erasure of trans people’s basic civil rights even in the so-called liberal New York Times.
Elizabelle
Welcome, Eddie. Delighted to have you here.
Citizen Alan
@Baud:
There are plenty of Bible quotes. At its core, transphobia is about righteous anger over people flouting Biblically proscribed gender roles. Hatred of trans individuals comes from the same wellspring as dress codes that forbid women from wearing pants.
It’s the Cult of Mammon. People who believe that if they’re rich enough, they’ll be safe from the people who hate them. So they focus more on the party they think will make them rich (or at least not tax them) than on the party that will try to protect them from haters.
oatler
FL really likes performative Nazi shit. Now it’s jail parents who take kids to drag shows. “What a performance!”
RedDirtGirl
Welcome and thank you for sharing your knowledge!
Elizabelle
If I may ask, which languages?
And yes, links and info would be good, re actual information on trans issues. The usual suspects seem to be having a field day flooding the zone with mis- and disinformation. Sometimes combining it with screaming about “woke”!
I like this.
tokyokie
I knew a trans woman 40 years ago, and I didn’t treat her very well, and I regret that I did so. In the interim, I’ve come to believe that whatever people do in privacy, as long as it doesn’t hurt anybody else, is their own business and none of mine, and I expect to be treated likewise. But I find the current GOP legal assault on trans kids to be particularly repulsive. Trans kids are few in number, and thus already feel isolated, and here’s one of our two mainline political parties making hating them the central plank in its platform. The only practical effect of these efforts is to drive trans kids deeper into depression and many over the brink to suicide. And that result is one that these self-pronounced Christians see as virtuous.
I look forward to your future posts.
different-church-lady
Welcome Eddie! Illegitimi non carborundum.
wmd
The president of my motorcycle club is a partially transitioned transsexual – her wife is opposed to re-assignment surgery because she enjoys her (MC President’s) penis. No question at all about gender even so.
The two facts are difficult for a lot of people – here’s a woman with well developed breasts, presenting as feminine, yet with a penis. The “my god, my 10 year old daughter could see a penis in the locker room at the pool” reaction is real, and while there is absolutely no risk to anyone that point is a nucleus for reactionary fearmongering.
Any ideas on how to counter this?
kindness
More power to you Eddie. I’m so sorry trans folk are the out minority du jour to beat up on. I think the Christian fundies thought trans would be the easiest people to get others to hate. And I really don’t understand that part. Have these ‘Christian’ people ever met this Jesus fellow I have heard so much about? I don’t think so.
Patricia Kayden
The biggest misunderstanding that my friends have about trans-affirming care for children is that they children are allowed to make changes to their bodies which cannot be reversed. It’s my understanding that this is not true.
FelonyGovt
Welcome Eddie! I look forward to reading more.
@Baud: I have a trans friend who loudly proclaims he’s “Libertarian”, moved out of California because of our oppressive taxes and regulations, etc. But is now decrying the insensitive and discriminatory health care available in his new, Red state, and has to come back to CA for treatment.
RaflW
Hi eddie, thanks for being here!
I want to plug a last minute opportunity for trans, non-binary, queer and LGBTQ folx to apply for a PFund Foundation scholarship. The deadline is in just a few days, but it’s not too late! (This round off applications will be competitive – we’ve had a noticeably higher number of people submit this year, but I’d still encourage anyone to give it a try!).
This is a geographically limited scholarship – MN, ND, SD, IA and WI. Note that several of these states are absolute disasters for trans & non-binary people and their families. These funds could help a trans person get themselves into a school or program in MN, which is now by executive order a trans sanctuary state (sincere thanks to Gov. Walz!!).
I will also plug PFund Foundation as a worthy option for anyone wanting to donate to support trans and general queer folks. Our recipients the past few years have been about 50% trans/genderqueer and often about half BIPOC or non-white. Applicants range in age from 17 to 65+.
In a couple days I’ll be posting about an emergency relief fund PFund will be launching to help trans kids in ND & SD schools to be able to distance-enroll in welcoming/affirming MN public schools. These kids will have to pay at least a portion of tuition as MN does not have high school reciprocity arrangements with ND & SD. I am just learning about the emergency fund, but would imagine IA will also be a focus.
I’m planning to match donations, too. If you’re already interesting in giving, please note Transcend Fund in the campaign designation, and leave a comment here about how much, and I will match it dollar for dollar. NO LIMIT.
(Don’t want to speak for her, but I’d imagine WaterGirl could vouch for me that my match offer is for realz.)
Gwangung
Hey, Eddie! Glad to see you speaking out on the front page! Even gladder to see you stepping up to educate on trans issues (where I still have a lot to learn).
(Eddie and I have known each other in the Seattle theatre scene for a long time, before they took wing and stepped out nationally and internationally).
Mel
Thanks, Eddie, for sharing your story and your art. Big hugs to you (and of course to beautiful Baby, also!).
Matt McIrvin
@Patricia Kayden: Not only that, they’re claiming that some cabal of liberal educators is pouncing on every kid who acts a little out of a stereotypical gender norm, declaring them trans and railroading then into surgery. As far as I can tell it’s completely made up.
What gets prescribed for prepubescent trans kids is puberty blockers, so they can decide a little later, and won’t have to have the effects of puberty undone. And then there’s a whole argument about whether these are really safe and reversible, etc. But there’s also deliberate confusion going on between this, adult hormone therapy and surgery. It reminds me of the deliberate attempts to muddy the difference between “Plan B” and mifepristone.
eclare
Welcome! I thought John Oliver did a really good piece breaking down the lies about Trans kids.
https://www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2022/oct/17/john-oliver-last-week-tonight-recap-trans-rights
I look forward to your comments!
NeutronFlux
@planet eddie: You’ll do well here.
The Up and Up
Glad to have your voice here.
I too lurk mostly. I read what others have commented before posting.
#TransRightsAreHumanRights
(no longer an egg)
SiubhanDuinne
Let me add my own welcome, Eddie! I’m glad you’re here and I look forward to more posts and talks and Q&A sessions.
ETA:
LOL
SiubhanDuinne
@The Up and Up:
And just where’s the fun in that?
SkyBluePink
Thank you,Eddie. Very eloquent. Looking forward to your posts.
TaMara
Welcome, welcome, welcome!
stinger
Glad to see your post! Welcome!
K-Mo
What’s up Eddie?
I look forward to your content.
UncleEbeneezer
Welcome Eddie! Very much looking forward to your posts.
Warblewarble
Thank you for bringing yourself and your thoughtful insights to share. Love and appreciation. Look forward to any further thoughts you may wish to share.
UncleEbeneezer
Dan B
There was a Neo-Nazi and Proud Boys demonstration against a drag show in my hometown in Ohio – Wadsworth, yesterday or day before. It didn’t surprise me but it freaked out my brother. He didn’t see the prejudice in the town. I did. It helped that me, as a young gayling, had my radar on high alert. It’s interesting to see the contrast between people who are at risk and those who are not.
Do great posts!
raven
Hey Eddie, nice to see you here. I’ve talked about my friend and his trans son from time to time here. This is an old video about them and an example of what positive, nurturing support can do for a child.
Just Call Me Kade
tobie
Yes, let’s dance. I look forward to your posts, Eddie!
satby
Welcome (very, very welcome) Eddie! Glad John offered you the keys, glad you finally accepted because your voice is needed right now.
You’re in Seattle? I’ll be in town from April 3-6, and was talking with opiejeanne about a meet-up (Dan B, I emailed you too). If anyone is interested.
Cameron
Thank you for posting here, Eddie. I look forward to your ongoing presence as a front-pager!
Betty Cracker
Welcome Eddie and Baby!
You make an excellent point in your Tedx video about the necessity of examining one’s own experience with gender as part of an effort to create a more inclusive society. Even though it’s so pervasive into so many aspects of our lives, it’s easy (for some of us) to be like a fish that asks, “Water? What water?”
Dorothy A. Winsor
@eclare: Thanks for that link. I didn’t know exactly what gender affirming care for children consisted of.
Dan B
@Dan B: BTW My brother and I are both Seattle residents, greater Seattle for my brother. I’ve known six trans people. All but one were wonderful people.
eclare
I just watched your TED talk, very eloquent.
Another Scott
Thanks for the post and the pointer to the TedX talk. Very well done.
And it’s always good to see more recovering Maroons here. ;-)
Looking forward to the conversation and to learning more.
Cheers,
Scott.
Omnes Omnibus
Welcome to the front page. Thank you for sharing your experiences. I must say, I am not really a dancer though.
UncleEbeneezer
@Dan B: A lot of people are still in pretty big denial of just how many Americans are (or sympathize with) Nazis. It is, and always has been, way more than we should ever be comfortable with. As one of my fave Black podcasters put it “America is a Sundown Country.”
Dan B
@satby: I replied to your email. I thought you had a room booked and were working out details with Opiejean. I’ll email you.
MomSense
Welcome, Eddie! I’m so happy you have decided to delurk to be a fp’er.
I used to be a dancer, choreographer, and teacher. Miss it every day.
I’m hoping we can learn what we can do to stand in the gap, personally and politically.
brantl
@Dan B: One person out of any six people is probably about average.
Princess
I have a question. Do you pronounce your name Eh-dee or Ee-dee?
MomSense
@Omnes Omnibus:
May be a looker?
Suzanne
@wmd:
Go change in a private room?
I will note that I am observing a bit of a shift in norms around locker rooms that goes beyond genitalia. More and more of my clients are requesting private changing facilities within locker rooms because many people are not comfortable with showing their bodies for all kinds of health reasons, weight, etc etc etc. I have proposed — though no one’s yet opted to go for — one giant shared locker room for everyone, with many private changing cubicles. What I have heard reported by my clients is that older generations are comfortable to change in front of others, but increasingly younger people are not.
Baud
@brantl: 1 out of 6 is better than the usual 27%.
Omnes Omnibus
@MomSense: I am definitely that. Quite a looker, if I do say so myself.
Matt McIrvin
@Suzanne: There’s a variety of dude who seems to want to hang out naked in the locker room for hours and have naked conversations with all the other dudes the moment he turns 70.
raven
@Suzanne: There are dudes at the Y that leave their underwear on when the shower. I guess the Army cured me of any scruples like that but, then again, I bet it is different now!
jonas
Great to have you here, Eddie. I am the parent of a trans teen boy who recently received top surgery just short of his 18th birthday. We would be criminals in a number of states today but are fortunate to live in a progressive blue state where he received outstanding care throughout the process. He started transitioning about 3 years ago, after having come out as queer/non-binary during middle school. One of the first things we did when he asked to start taking testosterone was to seek out a great pediatric gender care specialist, who then recommended a psychologist to work with through the process. I felt that we took each step fully informed about pros, cons, risks, etc. He did a lot of his own research and asked tons of questions at every appointment. One of the reasons we did not put off top surgery a little longer was that 1. it was clear this is what they wanted and 2. being large-chested, binding was creating a lot of other health issues, to the point where it was going to permanently damage their chest and rib cage if he kept doing it any longer. It also severely limited the kinds of activities they could participate in, jobs he could work, etc. He’s now looking forward to starting college and to a great life thanks to the fact that he is now free to be himself. I don’t know what we would have done if we were stuck in a state like Tennessee or Florida. I feel so bad for the families of queer/trans teens in those places — other than just dedicating ourselves to destroying Republicans politically state by state, it’s hard to know what to do.
Almost Retired
Welcome and what a wonderful introduction, via text, video and cat pictures. Can’t wait to hear more from you. It’s super-timely for me. I’m helping a friend and fellow plaintiff-side employment lawyer with an upcoming employment discrimination case in Northern California with a trans male client. Totally stealing your clear-cut and compelling description of sex and gender and the trans experience to help prep him.
Client worked at a major Big Ass Retailer. He reported a death threat by a co-worker’s boyfriend and other personal safety concerns. Big Ass Retailer shrugged it off, but immediately launched an investigation into manufactured allegations that the client was saying creepy things to teenage employees. He wasn’t – and the claim fell apart in deposition. But he was fired and stayed fired.
The Big Ass Retailer is taking its chances with a exurban jury in a semi-cow County. So I really like your straightforward “I’ll answer your questions without judgment” approach and think we’ll use it with a jury pool likely to be less clued in than they would be in Los Angeles or San Francisco. You can have fantastic laws protecting gender identity and expression, as we do in California, but they’re only as good as your jury pool.
Wish we could have you stand in and pretend to be the client- who is an awful witness – but that might be unethical.
Josie
Welcome, and thanks for joining us. I look forward to your posts.
Omnes Omnibus
@raven: Sports and the army really cured me of any issues about it. You just do what you are there to do and don’t look at other people’s junk.
raven
@Omnes Omnibus: There it is.
Sister Golden Bear
Thank you, Eddie! I’d been meaning to do a trans post, but the waves of anti-trans hate has been too overwhelming. BTW, we’re now up to at least 500 anti-LGBTQ+ bills (the vast majority) anti-trans) bills in state legislatures now.
FYI, I’m also happy to do an AMA today.
kalakal
Welcome Eddie and thank you for taking the time to share your knowledge with us. Your Tedx talk is very well done
Also hello to Baby.
Sister Golden Bear
@oatler: Florida is now the meth lab of
democracyRepublican fascism.Suzanne
@Matt McIrvin: That dude needs to get a talking-to from management of the facility. It’s not appropriate.
Doc Sardonic
I think that could be because changing around everyone else in a locker room was the norm. Then as time goes on it started changing because more and more of us older folks started to remember how uncomfortable that really was and started shielding their kids from it where possible*.
Could also be due various manufactured panics over the years over sexuality.
*Can’t speak to that from personal experience, don’t have kids of my own, for many reasons.
delphinium
Thank you, Eddie and welcome! Looking forward to your posts.
Baud
@Suzanne: That dude probably is management.
Doc Sardonic
Also, for the more savvy commenters a question. What am I doing wrong in visual mode that the cursor will not leave the box after I paste in what I’m quoting. I had to switch over to text mode to get it do work correctly. On an iPad Pro.
KBS
De-lurking to say welcome! I’m glad to hear you’ll be posting. I’m horrified at the rising tide of anti-trans legislation, and will do whatever I can to be an ally.
CaseyL
Welcome, Eddie!
So you’re the one who made the iconic Tunch art! Thank you!
Yes, do please be a regular FPer and talk about everything, and particularly about transgender issues. I’d be very interested, and would love to be able to counter mis- and disinformation when I hear it. Even among people who know a fair bit about transgender issues, there are gaps around what transitioning consists of, and when, and how best to talk about those things.
Baby is a handsome fellow, and I’m so glad the airplane adventure ended well. When I was a kid, my family moved to Miami Beach but we still summered up north with the rest of the family. We’d routinely fly back and forth with our various animals and, looking back, it’s a miracle we never had a problem with doing so.
Sister Golden Bear
@Sister Golden Bear: Oh and welcome! (I’m still little insufficiently caffeinated with the time change.)
M31
a great comic from The Oatmeal about old guys vs. young guys in the locker room
Percysowner
Way back in the 70s, when Phyllis Schlafly was fighting the ERA because “unisex bathrooms” and men might go in the women’s room, a friend said she couldn’t see the big deal. Every woman’s room she and I had been in had stalls and a door. We both decided that closing the stall door was not a big effort, if you were concerned about privacy.
The fears remain the same and the solutions remain equally obvious and easy. If you are worried about your female child seeing a penis, ask everyone to use a stall or change behind a curtain. I don’t think most trans women want to broadcast their bodily differences, just to upset people.
Betty Cracker
There’s an interview in The New Yorker with Masha Gessen that’s sort of a meta-discussion about how trans issues are covered in the media. Gessen has an irritating quasi-libertarian streak sometimes, but it’s worth a read, IMO.
Sister Golden Bear
A friend of mine has a good round-up of articles about the current anti-trans movements.
eversor
@Baud:
I don’t feel it’s secular really.
When you look at it the entire shit show is about if you are born with X between your legs you must live your life this way. If you are born with Y between your legs you’re a second class citizen and must live your life that way. The Old Testament, New Testament, God, and Christ all formally endorse and demand it. There is no debate it over it in Christianity.
The panic over transgender is not the real panic here. It’s the panic over gender. As gender is bullshit, and historically this was known by multiple cultures, there’s no real justification for it…. outside of Christianity (other religions do it in other places). The battles over homosexuality were lost to Christianity. The battle over patriarchy and the role of gender in society was lost to Christianity. Trans is the last front before the whole thing comes crashing down on them so they will fight to the death on this one. Because they want, and their religion/book/God/Jesus demands, Bronze Age gender roles, power structures, enforced by barbaric brutality of the Bronze Age.
There’s only a few secular dogs in this fight. The first is how to deal with atheletics but this is a side issue that will be worked out by the athletes competing not people shouting at each other on their keyboards who aren’t in athletics. It’s also even more of a side issue than doping or the rampant corruption and cheating in sports. The next is over sexual assault. But again a non issue as most rapes are among people you know and as this was goosed up by conservative Christians their track record on rape is the worst in the nation. The last is the hand wringing over “what about the bathrooms” which everyone realizes is fucking insane. Most people have wanderded into the wrong bathroom by mistake once in their life only to feel really stupid. The world does not end. You do not go to jail. You do not go to HR. Plus people love the gender neutral bathrooms they install. Much better than the other ones. Everyone uses them and loves them. People were thrilled at work when we got one. For the “women might see a penis” yeah women know what a dick looks like. Also the womens room has stalls, and in some countries there are no gendered bathrooms there is just the bathroom and they have not fallen into chaos. So these are all bullshit. They also are being promoted by conservative Christians to try and gain traction among others and nobody is really taking the bait.
The pronoun debate is also a big nothing. Nobody reads someones Outlook signature and see’s he/him/ them/they she/her people address people by name or department unit. And should you screw up and call a him a her you are not going to HR. You might get corrected over Teams/slack with a “hey if you could” by the person who you offended, and they almost never are because people make mistakes, but you will not get fired and then banned from your field of work.
This is just the Religious Right screaming again that they can’t force everyone to submit to the nastier side of Christianity and finding what they think is an easy target while throwing up a bunch of nonsense squid ink to convince everyone else to join them. While not realizing everyone else doesn’t like them and thinks “oh fuck not these assholes again”.
Again, reminder that the leading anti-trans crusader got fired because he had a sole benefactor that got sick of his crazy https://currentpub.com/2023/03/10/rod-drehers-funder-pulls-the-plug/
Doc Sardonic
Also, Welcome Eddie and Baby. Looking forward to learning about this subject because I know less than nothing about it.
Baud
This thread reminds me I need to get in shape.
Another Scott
@Suzanne: Yeah, things do seem to be changing, slowly.
When I was a kid in the late ’60s my dad would take us up to a lake in a state park in northern Georgia. There was a building with a big open area and a few benches where all the males changed out in the open. It struck me as strange.
Similarly, at the old Atlanta Stadium the mens’ rooms had a giant, long porcelain horse trough like thing that was the communal urinal. It was strange and disgusting.
I’ve never, ever, understood the need to somehow make boys feel weird if they didn’t want their privates out in front of male strangers.
Cheers,
Scott.
Doc Sardonic
@Another Scott: Those troughs were everywhere when I was growing up. Even the old churches had them in the men’s room. I think they were designed as a military agility drill originally. Start at one end and side step while going to keep the line moving, if you don’t wet yourself or fall over you pass.
wmd
Privacy is certainly a physical answer. But the “ick” being used to keep people upset and fearful is unlikely to be countered by it.
I think that much of the progress on gay rights happened because people came out of the closet. Once you have explicit knowledge that your friends and family, ordinary people you’ve loved for years, are different sexually then the ick goes away. It was courageous and effective, and is still risky. For trans people that risk is substantially higher, but there’s hope that grandparents will understand that their grandchild isn’t really the sex they were assigned at birth and go on loving them.
Betty Cracker
@M31: LMAO!
UncleEbeneezer
For anyone interested in the behind the scenes, Mother Jones (TW: Transphobia, Bigotry etc.) had a good article about the organizing behind the horrific anti-Trans legislative efforts we are seeing currently. As with most hate-legislation in the US it is a collaboration of a bunch of Xtian Fundamentalist orgs with “Freedom, Eagle, America, Liberty” etc. in their misleading names, lobbying and working with Republicans then signal-boosted by Incels, TERFs, Nazis and Centrist media.
[Added: whoops, I see the Mother Jones article is already mentioned in SGB’s link]
jonas
More to the point, would most women really be all that comfortable with a very masculine-presenting trans-man using the bathroom or locker room with them?
eversor
@Percysowner:
I’ve been in countries where there was just the bathroom and the locker room and they were all unisex. People don’t go checking out peoples junk in those places unless there is something off with them. Or it’s a hookup place.
I at one point wasn’t paying attention and as the mens and womens rooms were next to each other wandered into the womens room while texting on my phone. World did not end and nobody panicked. I felt more stupid than anything they laughed. I had to take care of my young niece at one point and this was before they had diaper changing stations in the mens room (gender roles strike again!) and didn’t know what to do. After a moment of deliberation I just walked into the womens room that had one and nobody said anything or freaked out. Situations like this happen constantly. Most people do not give a damn about bathrooms.
Cameron
@eversor: I’m not sure this is how DeSantis is playing it here. He doesn’t impress me as being particularly religious. He very much much impresses me as a sadistic sociopath.
raven
@Another Scott:
We had common shitters that were just boards with holes cut in them and sawed off 55 gal drums under them. We had to drag em out with a 2×4 and burn it. The rub was that the shit would crust on the top so you had to stir it with a stick. And this was a luxury compared to what the grunts did.
Bill Arnold
@eversor:
What do you mean by this? I agree with the rest of the rant, BTW.
RandomMonster
I love your sketch of your kitty!
Msb
Welcome, Eddie! And Baby!
I’m trying to be as good an ally as I can, and was recently a bit shocked to find a good friend (and staunch ally to disabled people) spouting anti-trans stuff about athletes. Any materials on this issue that you’d recommend? Many thanks in advance!
Baud
@raven:
Ain’t no way I’m clicking that link.
Bill Arnold
@Cameron:
Why not both?
Sure Lurkalot
I look forward to your posts, Eddie and thank you so much for taking the time to elucidate and educate.
A shout out for pointing out in your Ted Talk that we have all been judged and disdained by gender stereotypes which have changed and will continue to change over time. I think a good “how do YOU like it when…”, is a hat tip that the leopard comes for everyone’s face, sooner or later.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: I got back from the gym an hour ago.
Cameron
@Baud: You think he’s just trying to stir up some shit?
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
Did you hang out naked in the locker room talking to other naked guys?
Tom Levenson
Glad you’re here Eddie. Look forward to much art, learning, and felines to come.
Another Scott
@raven: You had so much “fun” over there!
:-/
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
wmd
@Cameron:
More like being crusty.
Jharp
Count me in.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: I am not old enough to do that yet.
Cameron
@Bill Arnold: Entirely possible; all I’ve seen is the sociopath part.
Alison Rose
You are awesome and amazing. Thank you for being here. As a queer cis woman with many trans and/or nonbinary friends, it’s incredibly important to me to always be improving my allyship and ensuring that those in my community who are at greater risk than me are supported and protected and loved.
BTW to any other cis folks here who might be interested: I registered for an online workshop with Schuyler Bailar called “TRANS ACTION: A Step By Step Workshop for Allyship in Action”. It’s a 2-hour event on March 27 from 6-8 Eastern, $20 to register. Please check it out and consider attending!
eversor
@Doc Sardonic:
I’m in my early 40s and granted I mainly go to the military gyms and pools but even at the others it’s still group showers and changing in public in the mens area. Nobody cares.
There’s a group of people who are deeply troubled and freaked out over the human body and sexuality. But they are minority. The rest of us don’t have to bother ourselves with their psychological issues they claim are “morality”.
James E Powell
@The Up and Up:
If I do that & read all the way to comment #100 or so, I forget what I wanted to say to comment #45 or thereabouts or whose comment I was thinking about.
William D
welcome and very much looking forward to your posts……..on pronouns I kinda hope xe xers catches on because using they as a singular always strains my brain…an utterly minor inconvenience I know
Tony G
@tokyokie: The GOP is attacking trans kids precisely because the GOP views them as being isolated and defenseless. Bullies are cowards. It’s a cliche, but it’s true.
Eduardo
Eddie:
I am another old liberal gay dude. Also interested on and very confused about the gender affirming treatment for kids mainly but also for adults in the US and Europe. The subject is new and complex for me and there is so much bad faith, twitterism, and polarization — which is everything you do not want when talking about people’s health and well being. Your post and video are very much the opposite of that.
That you like Linguistics and History are just the ice on the cake.
I will be faithfully lurking in your posts like I do with the daily Silverman Ukraine update.
Welcome aboard!
Kdaug
I remember you. i know you. I’ve met you (in person ‐.Austin)
I’ve got your back. You are supported
Benw
Hi Eddie! I look forward to your posts.
My cousin is married to a transman, a lovely and brave person. This anti-trans “panic” is scary, and also just as disingenuous as the anti-gay marriage campaign that – surprise! – evaporated almost instantly in the wake of Obergefell, but still hurt a lot of perfectly innocent people just trying to live their damn lives.
Another Scott
@Doc Sardonic: rofl.
Even if, back in the 1950s, one thought that the country would need to mobilize every male person at the drop of a hat to go fight the commies, and that they thus need to know how to quickly pee in formation, that doesn’t mean that the culture needs to destroy the benefits of modesty in children.
It struck me as something like yet another attempt to force binary gender norms on people, for no good (and many bad) reasons.
The military isn’t exactly known for having enlightened opinions about gender roles, of course – Tailhook, Aberdeen, Marines United, Lackland, Coast Guard, ….
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@Baud: It’s just a picture of smoking barrels.
Alison Rose
@Bill Arnold: eversor can offer their own response, but IMO gender is a social construct based on whatever happen to be the mores and standards of a particular place and time. “Gender” is not something naturally occurring, much as many people want to insist it is (“My daughter totally naturally loves pink and sparkles and dresses!!!!”). Nothing we do is done in a vacuum, and from a very very young age, we pick up on cues about how we are meant to perform the gender that was assigned to us. But those cues have not always matched what they are right now, and will not match what they become in the future. Further, the cues a child receives in California may differ from those in Kentucky which may differ from those in Peru which may differ from those in Kenya which may differ from those in Nepal which may…you get the point.
Gender is largely made up, and is continually reinvented as humanity rolls along. People who insist on a rigid adherence to a very narrow concept of gender are living in a very boring fantasy world.
skerry
Thank you and welcome.
Suzanne
@Another Scott: Public restrooms are fraught for lots of reasons. Privacy, maintenance, cleanliness, amenities, accessibility for the disabled, and that’s not even coming near the gender stuff. Expectations for spaces are higher now than they used to be. So when I’ve encountered clients who are uncomfortable talking about gender stuff, I talk about it more in the “making it work for everyone” sense….. think partitions that come lower to the floor and cover “the gap”, baby changing tables (especially in the men’s room), family restrooms for strollers, bigger stalls with grab bars for people of size (including the vertical grab bar), hand dryers, step stools. Single-hole restrooms are great if you have to poop in public.
eclare
@Percysowner: When I was in college going to fraternity parties, after a couple of hours all bathrooms became unisex. Otherwise women would be in line all night. No biggie at all. Especially when nature calls after a few drinks.
Soprano2
@Suzanne: I think the older people are mostly lying. I never knew one person who was comfortable changing in front of other people, and I’m 62. I say the same thing you do, quit making people get naked in front of each other.
eversor
@Bill Arnold:
Gender is mostly an attempt to define certain behaviors, roles, psychological attitudes, levels of aggression, abilities, and more to a biological sex defined by what’s between your legs. Which is nonsense. Just as we don’t judge a book by it’s cover you can’t judge a person by having a cock or a pussy. It’s insane to do so.
Framing traits as masculine or feminine is sort of crazy. They are just traits. Agression is not a masculine thing and nuturing is not feminine. They are just traits. Most of us possess both. I’m a vet and I’m capable of a spectacular level of agression and violence. I’m also an uncle who raised two kids for a few years while my brother had cancer and his wife had to work and did the whole diapers, bottles, teaching to read, and had to toddler proof his apartment and sang them to sleep.
Gender attempts to put things in a binary. But people are people. None of us fit into some sort of set box binary. The Christian right really wants to police gender roles and put them in some binary and I’m not buying it. Almost everyone I know falls into mix of all the areas and has both masculine and feminine traits which means these things are artificial abstracts in our heads. They do not exist. The people most obsessed by being masculine and not having or doing feminine things are some of the most deeply insecure individuals I’ve ever met.
There’s a reason “female” but not “woman” is a slur among the alt-right and it’s all about gender.
Sister Golden Bear
@wmd:
A gentle heads-up that “transsexual” is considered outdated and potentially offensive (because of its association with the right using it) to today’s trans people.
Not so difficult for a number of men — pron involving trans women with penises is one of the more popular sub-genres. I’ll give you one guess which states it’s most popular in.
Interestingly, while you’re not wrong,* framing things as a “privacy” issue in the bathroom bills of 2015-2016 largely failed to gain traction. Which is why the Christofascist Republicans intentionally are pushing the “predatory pedophile” angle this time.
*Locker rooms are usually scary places for trans women with penises (because trans woman have been assaulted in restrooms) and they go to great lengths to avoid having their penises seen.
Sister Golden Bear
@Matt McIrvin:
It is completely made up. Jesse “I’m just asking questions” Singal latest story about a gender care clinic in St. Louis that supposedly doing this completely blew up in his face when 20+ parents of kids who were patients completely contradicted his account. But as usual Singal is doubling down and refusing to admit his single source lied to him (and committed numerous, quite possibly criminal, HIPAA patient privacy violations).
In fact, the parents accounts actually showed just who methodical and careful the process is.
Also worth noting that “gender affirming care” can be as simple as letting a child use the pronouns and name they identified with them, letting them wear hairstyles and clothing considered “appropriate” to their self-identified gender. For prepubescent kids, that’s as far as it go. Puberty blockers may be used for trans kids approaching puberty. Hormones (estrogen or testosterone) are only prescribed after careful consideration and parental approach. A small number of trans boys had top surgery before they’re 18, and I’ll note that it’s reversible, albeit with much effect, just as cis women who have mastectomies can have reconstructive surgeries. Bottom surgery for trans girls is extremely rare, Kim Petras being one of the few exceptions. Even bottom surgeries for trans women is heavily gate kept — among other things you need to letters of approval for surgery from two mental health professionals. And the regret rate for bottom surgery is a faction of a percent — the lowest regret that I know of for any surgery.
Suzanne
@Soprano2: I design a fair amount of locker rooms that are in workplaces (hospitals, but also airports and office buildings). So the issue is not just changing, but changing in front of your coworkers. Awkward AF. On the project I am currently in drawings on…..we had a huge amount of discussion with the building owner, and they ended up taking a poll of their employees. I was really surprised by the results. The people over 50 actively wanted to have sex-segregated locker rooms and there were even comments about not wanting private changing spaces inside the room to be available. The employees who were 40 or younger were on board with the one-big-shared-room option and absolutely wanted private changing spaces, even if they went with sex-segregated rooms.
Where we landed: sex-segregated locker rooms, with multiple private changing stalls inside. Private showers accessed inside the locker rooms. Plus a single-hole restroom equipped with ADA changing bench and lockers, accessed from corridor.
eversor
@Suzanne:
When my brother had cancer and his wife still had to work and I was taking care of the kids I had to change a diaper. This was in the early 2000s. While at the mall I rapidly had to realize that not only did the mens room not have a changing station, I’d have to drag a little girl in there. But the womens room did have a changing station! Though I’d have to as a man go in there.
Nobody freaked out. I got small talk on how good of a dad I was and had to explain I was the uncle. Rather than being mad about man in the womans room everyone thought the situation was cute and the lack of changing stations in the mens room was a bad thing. Evidently this sort of thing happened all the time. Cause, mens room doesn’t have a changing station. Why don’t mens rooms have changing stations? Gender. It’s fucking stupid.
planet eddie
@wmd:
I guess the first thing to ask yourself is: do you really think this trans woman is just walking around a women’s locker room trying to brandish her genitalia at minors? God, when I go to the locker room, I won’t even change in the public area usually because people stare at my top surgery scars and sometimes try to investigate what I have going on on the bottom. It’s extremely intrusive, and I have been harassed by staff unwilling to let me into my locker room of choice even though I have the “correct” genitalia.
When you flip the perspective, suddenly you can be a lot more compassionate: isn’t it crazy how everyone is obsessed with trans people’s genitalia? We just want to go to the bathroom or the gym and then get on with our damn lives. Since when are other people’s genitalia anyone’s business?
I also want to point out that bottom surgery is far more expensive and has very mixed results for both trans men and women. Many of us have done tremendous work to accept our own bodies as the gender we know they are, and our partners accept them too, and I know lots of trans folks who love their genitalia and wouldn’t change them even if they had the choice. One of my trans friends calls his vagina his “man cave,” and he sleeps with gay men, so clearly he’s man enough without the extra part.
We know we are the targets of harassment and hate. It is going to be a rare outlier who puts themselves in danger by outing themselves the way you seem to be concerned about.
wmd
@Sister Golden Bear:
Thanks for the heads up on nomenclature.
Madeleine
Welcome, Eddie! I’m glad you’re joining Sister Golden Bear, from whom I’ve learned so much.
Suzanne
@planet eddie: My son is trans. When he’s with us and he needs to use a public restroom, I normally ask Mr. Suzanne to escort. I worry about violence. SuzMom recently purchased pepper spray for him.
FelonyGovt
I just finished watching your Tedx talk, Eddie, and it was very valuable. It will help me to be a good ally. I’ve learned a lot from my daughter, and I think and hope things will improve with the younger generations.
sab
I have a trans niece and also my grand-daughter has a trans half-brother. and there is so much misinformation and so little information out there that my mind boggles. (Oddly enough, 1A on NPR has been good.) But thank you so much for this post. As you say, those of us with family trans cannot just walk away from or ignore this issue. It is just there as part of life every day all the time. It shouldn’t even be “an issue” since it simply is what it is.
wmd
@planet eddie:
Adrianne does not go into locker rooms and display herself inappropriately.
The point is that the “ick” is an easy sell even though it isn’t the reality. Once you put that in people’s minds they tend to cling to it. How do we stop it from taking hold is my question.
J R in WV
@Matt McIrvin:
I visited the local YMCA not that long ago, and noticed the older guys, my age, sitting around naked to chat. Weird if you ask me.
I’m not shy, was in the Navy in the long ago, but I would rather be clothed to talk with people I don’t know well. Did not join the Y to swim, just wasn’t comfortable with it. Also not cheap!
Also glad to be about to learn more about trans issues from someone who has been there.
I did already know that puberty blockers are not that big a deal for young people with gender issues… unlike the lies the Christo-Fascists spread. So NOT Christian ~!!~
sab
@Dan B: I bet it did wonders for my rental property values.
Sister Golden Bear
@planet eddie:
Plus not often covered by insurance.
I did want to note that bottom surgery results for trans men lag those for trans women. As one surgeon indelicately put it: it’s easier to create hole than a pole. Unfortunately this creates a bit of vicious circle, since fewer trans men (understandably) have bottom surgery, meaning surgeons have fewer opportunities to improve the surgical techniques.
A gay trans man I know refers to his vagina as his “bonus hole.” Though I don’t know if any of his gay boyfriends have made use of it.
jonas
@eversor: Most of these Christians acting all outraged about transgenderism haven’t the first clue about their own religious history. For anyone interested in what the Bible and the Christian tradition more broadly have to say about the sex/gender binary, I can highly recommend Rutgers University gender historian Leah deVun’s The Shape of Sex: Nonbinary Gender from Genesis to the Renaissance. Extremely illuminating discussion of the myriad ways the Bible and later theologians used gender fluidity and non-binary gender as ways of imagining the nature of God and other spiritual and religious questions. There’s also Caroline Walker Bynum’s Jesus as Mother, a collection of essays that explores medieval spiritual exercises that imagined Jesus as having certain feminine-gendered traits (nursing from the wound on his side, for example), or the Virgin Mary as having a male beard, etc. Jacob Neusner’s Androgynous Judaism about non-binary gender imagery and androgyny in the rabbinic tradition is also really interesting.
sab
@Percysowner:👍
zhena gogolia
Welcome, Eddie. I just made lunch today for a former student while wearing my Lily apron. I have worn out my Tunch OBEY mouse pad and almost worn out my Tunch OBEY hoodie. Love them all. Baby looks incredible.
eversor
@Suzanne:
One of the odd things about all this is as a rather tall, in shape, a vet, white male, I can walk into any restroom and take a leak and nobody is going to do shit or bat an eye. You just say it was a mistake and didn’t realize. Ditto my diaper changing story. But if a trans person wanders into the wrong bathroom the world will end.
I don’t know why social conservatives are so concerned over where people shit or piss (it’s Christianity I do know) but most people simply do not care. If you need to change a diaper, you need to change it. If you got to go and wandered into the wrong place you go and then get gone and feel silly. This is leaving out that in my 20’s when I was going out to clubs all bathrooms were for everyone and you could find people packed into stalls doing whatever with others angrily pounded at the door to get let in and have their turn.
The trans debate is sort of over. This will end like gay marriage. The younger generations are all on the left side of this and the Christian Conservatives are all going to make such jackasses of themselves people will rally against them.
Again, Rod Dreher got fired.
Sister Golden Bear
@jonas:
Masculine-presenting cis women (both butch lesbians and straight women) already get harassed, and sometimes assaulted, by women in public restrooms, so the answer is: no.. Especially if the trans man has a beard, as many of them do.
Also a gentle clarification that it’s “trans men” and “trans women” without the hyphen, equivalent to Black women, Asian women, Hispanic women, etc. I.e. “trans” is simply a modifier to “men” or “women” vs. trans men/women being a separate category. Subtle I know.
FelonyGovt
Quite honestly, my only issue with single-gender bathrooms is that some men (usually the loudest, most “masculine” presenting men) are slobs.
Dan B
@sab: I was thinking of you and your dislike of Wadsworth. My brother loved Wadsworth bbutcher again he loved Arkansas. We sang Dixie every morning at school and black people were never seen on Main Street. And , did i l mention, our barber handed out Klan literature. Wadsworth was like that but quietly.
raven
@J R in WV: In the expensive locker room in our Y they have communal combs (in those glass jars like a barbershop) and hair brushes. I don’t don’t give a shit about the rest of this stuff but, if I had hair, I ain’t doin no train!
sab
@satby: Somebody in late night BJ thought I was going to Seattle meetup and I was very surprised. I would love to but time constraints and all that. So would they be surprised if they expected you and got me instead. So this is working out for the best.
Soprano2
Welcome Eddie, I’m looking forward to learning about Trans issues because I’m woefully ignorant about them and don’t have hours to spend on research but want to know more. One thing I wonder about is how to counter the misconception that public school teachers can’t wait to turn your kid gay or trans; some people really believe this is true.
Sister Golden Bear
@William D:
FWIW, it’s quite likely you’re already using singular “they” when the gender of someone is unknown. E.g. “Someone left their phone at the bar. Do you think we should wait and see if they come back? Let’s give it to the bartender, to keep it safe for them.”
sab
@Dan B: We only bought the place because my husband’s best friend was about to be homeless and I had the cash available. His (friend’s) wife is a Wadsworth native and doesn’t know any better.
the antibob
Awesome! Welcome and great to meet you!
brantl
I am probably going to piss some people off, as being intolerant, but I hate it when people ise the currently-traditionally plural they/them for singular, in a conversation, it makes you constanly mention the person’s name to avoid misunderstandings, so it doesn’t save writing or speaking. Promote the other words you mentioned.
MomSense
@Sister Golden Bear:
Sending you big hugs.
J R in WV
@Sister Golden Bear:
This. People use Them/they all the time when they (see!) don’t know the actual gender to be using.
Thanks for sharing your viewpoints here with us, I appreciate it very much !
sab
@brantl: Agree with you on that. Also too JK Rowling does the they thing.
brantl
@Baud: At the time the Log Cabin Republicans had any impact/importance, the GQP was in full Train-the-Gay-Away mode. How is that different? Both are essentially: you can’t be the way you are/want to be, no?
planet eddie
@Patricia Kayden: Gender affirming care is multi-tiered, and surgical options are rare for anyone under 16 (usually only with parental approval). Most importantly, the decision to pursue gender-affirming care should be made between a patient, their doctor, and their legal guardians. It’s no one else’s business.
Here is roughly what gender affirming care is:
Finally, did you know girls who got nose jobs and boob jobs in middle school? I sure did. I think a lot of the panic is concern-trolling and hysterical propaganda.
Alison Rose
@William D: I’m not saying this is you, but the whole “singular they is just too harrrrrrrrd because graaaaaaammer” thing is maddening to me, as a cis person, so I can only imagine how much worse it sounds to someone who uses they/them pronouns. Because it’s really not that hard. Language changes all the time as society progresses, often despite the best efforts of reactionaries. Think of all the outdated terms white people used to use for POC. Only racist shitwads still call Asian people “Orientals”, for example. Otherwise, you grow and you adapt, and pretty quickly it’s totally natural.
Think about it — in English we have a metric fuckton of words with multiple meanings and uses that you don’t spend a second thinking about when you use them in one way or the other. If I walk into your house and look around in awe of your art and design and say “Wow, it’s cool in here” or if I walk in and shiver and rub my arms and say, “Wow, it’s cool in here”, you would know what each of those uses means and one would not make the other harder to process.
As SGB notes below, everyone uses singular they all the damn time without thinking about it. For some reason, when it’s regarding a specific person rather than a hypothetical, suddenly everyone is a Strunk & White groupie. Again, I’m not saying this about you specifically, just that when other people say the thing about “they is too hard for my brain” it’s usually a BS excuse to get away with refusing to mature and adapt and to just be nice and call people what they wish to be called.
sab
@Suzanne: My guess is it is easier for trans women although that is what the nutjobs care about.
Ancient joke is that any man at any age can go into a women’s restroom with his mother in tow, but men will utterly freak out if a father takes his 3 month old daughter into a men’s restroom.
Soprano2
@sab: Well, the current host is gay, and the previous host was gay, so maybe not as surprising as you think.
raven
@Alison Rose: I had a buddy named Difeliciantinio who played football at Illinois. He was being interviewed on TV and the announcer mentioned how hard it was to pronounce his name. “Not if you try it isn’t!”
Another Scott
@brantl: Language changes. This thread and the TEDx video gives lots of examples.
Pick your battles. ;-)
Hang in there.
Cheers,
Scott.
raven
@sab: The sign on the men’s locker room door at the Y says “Girls under 8 will NEED to use the girls locker room”!
Alison Rose
@brantl: Well, yes, this is in fact intolerant. I care more about respecting nonbinary people than I do about what pisses you off. Talk to them to see what pisses them off and do a little comparison about your woes.
As has already been explained here and a million other places a million other times, singular they has been in use for a long fucking time. Not just in the hypothetical but also for specific people. As far as the “confusion”, that’s not as big a deal as you make it out to be. If you’re talking about, say, a couple where one person is she/her and the other is they/them, it will almost always be obvious from the context of the usage whether “they” refers to that one person or to the couple. “She wanted to move to a smaller town to save money, but they really prefer living in the city. Eventually they decided to split the difference and move to the neighboring suburb.” It’s just not that complicated.
And trust me, people who don’t like they/them are not gonna be interested in using neo-pronouns like ze/zir. I have seen people lose their damn minds over those, which is stupid and wrong and mean, but still. Thinking it’ll be easier to get those into common use over singular they does not compute.
sab
@Alison Rose: I grew up in the South with two siblings. We think “y’all” is better than “you guys” because gender neutral. Baby sister raised in the Midwest disagrees. My issue with “they” is that it confuses me about single v plural. I have a tiny brain. But I will get used to it eventually.
planet eddie
@satby:
I have NO idea how to access my balloon-juice email. That will be next for figuring out!
I’m currently on the east coast, however! I am directing in Seattle this summer thought :)
Sister Golden Bear
@sab:
Not really. Public restrooms are so fraught with danger for trans women that some trans women end up with UTIs from holding their pee too long because they totally avoid public restrooms.
As I mentioned above, butch lesbians often also get hassled, as well as straight women who have a masculine presentation. E.g. a cis women friend of mine is 6 feet tall with an androgynous body. She’s gotten gender-policed a number of times.
sab
@Soprano2: I knew he is gay. I didn’t know she is gay.
NPR not in rush hour is mostly okay.
brantl
@Another Scott: I just think it’s a bad idea to take a plural pronoun and suddenly use it as singular, it’s pointlessly confusing; make new words for Christ’s sake.
Alison Rose
@brantl: OMG dude. It’s not “suddenly” and your opinions don’t matter. If you are confused by it, that’s your problem to deal with, and millions of people shouldn’t have to change how they identify to make you happy. Good Lord.
planet eddie
@jonas:
Congratulations on being rad. This slow, thoughtful, supportive transitioning process is exactly what we are all advocating for, and it’s being turned into mass hysteria.
sab
@Suzanne: Amazing how weird people can be. Let us choose to make life difficult for others. Our religion demands it.
planet eddie
@Sister Golden Bear: YAY! I’ve been trying to write this post for 2 weeks, and finally just realized I was getting overwhelmed by the level of anti-trans laws and needed to get simple with it. Maybe we could do a co-AMA sometime! :)
Sister Golden Bear
@Another Scott:
That it does. Singular “they” was commonly used in English in past centuries (many writers, including Shakespeare used it) going back to at least 1375, and has been in and out grammatical favor ever since, although still widely used. As the OED says:
Another Scott
@brantl: It’s not sudden, and no new word is needed.
Merriam-Webster:
I remember the battles about “ain’t”. The language moves on, for good reason. ;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
UncleEbeneezer
@Alison Rose: One of the things that really helped me understand that gender is a Social Construct was the thought experiment of finding an alien, human-looking corpse and trying to determine its’ gender. The exercise takes you through all the possible indicators: external sex organs, internal, hormone levels, chromosomes etc., and gives examples of how they can be misleading and how they may lead to different conclusions in the same person. Every time you think there’s one single factor that simply aligns with Gender Identity, you realize: nope, there’s always exceptions. For as much as TERFs love to scream about “Biology!”, even the biology of gender is complicated.
mvr
Welcome, though apparently you’ve been here for a long time!
sab
@Alison Rose: The butch lesbians at my niece’s funeral didn’t think the family’s feelings mattered either. We are still kind of traumatized so I don’t much care about their feelings. She was our kid and we loved her and they couldn’t be bothered about her feelings until she was dead.
ETA If they had cared about her feelings she might not be dead.
Alison Rose
@UncleEbeneezer: Yeah, these are the same people who insist the sex and gender are the same and there are only two while conveniently ignoring the existence of intersex people.
Ruckus
@tokyokie:
When I was one, kids in any way different were considered weird, out, not normal. Everyone got all the diseases and some got side effects from them. I basically didn’t grow from 6-7 yrs old till I was 12-13. So in HS I was the shortest kid in my freshman class. That was fun. My point is that any one the slightest bit different is subject – unless the world learns to accept different. Conservatives seem to feel the need for everyone to be the same and any difference is wrong. And it’s not just different, it’s outside some arbitrary concept of not different. My sister was gay and so I’ve been exposed to different and not by the “rules” for a very long time, like the vast majority of my life. And you know what? It doesn’t make a damn bit of difference to living if one does not fit some bullshit category of some asswipes life. And my first question is always what does it hurt anyone else if someone else is different? We are all different in some way, often minor but we still live, breathe, work, eat, sleep, and are still human. Well most of us anyway. What does it gain some conservative asswipe if everyone is the same – which of course we never are. And how shitty would it be if we all were the same? Does everyone ever actually want to be like Ted Cruz or SFB or – there are just too damn many asswipes on this planet and I sure as hell do not want to be like them.
Sister Golden Bear
@planet eddie: That would be great.
Sorry to hear the anti-trans hated has also gotten into your heads as well. I’m trying not to doom-scroll too much, but my hyper-vigilance from growing up a closeted trans kid* in the 70s and 80s is pretty ingrained. My therapist says she believes the vast majority of LGBTQ+ have at least some degree of CPTSD due to the hostile environment we faced.
*Yes there were some out trans women when I grew up, but I wasn’t aware of them. So I knew I was “different” for enjoying being a girl, but I assumed I was the only one in the world who felt that way. It’s the trans equivalent of Betty Friedan’s “problem without a name.” That’s the world Republican Christofascists are trying to recreate by eradicating trans people in public life.
Sister Golden Bear
@Alison Rose: They’re also silent about the non-consensual surgeries performed to “fix” intersex infants — i.e. to make their bodies conform to cisgender standards — where sometimes even parents aren’t informed. Which is a related, and extremely important issue.
Alison Rose
@Sister Golden Bear: Yep. I know someone who that was done to, and I was horrified when I first learned it was something that doctors actually thought was right and good to do. But yeah, I sure don’t see any of these “gender affirming care is abuse” people saying a single word about that.
Sister Golden Bear
@Alison Rose:
It’s still something that doctors do today, although less commonly.
sab
@sab: We accepted them. They never accepted us, which they proved when they turned her funeral into a party.
ETA She was dead. We were grieveing. And they had fun.
UncleEbeneezer
@J R in WV: Yup. I have lots of pre-pubescent students with ambiguous first names, style of dress etc. So I just use “they/their” if I need to refer to them in third person. Easy peasy.
MazeDancer
Feel very lucky that my introduction to transgender folks happened about 25 years ago. In McMinnville, OR.
Eating and wine drinking all night with 3 other guests from a B’n B. Two were wine makers, so we had to try everything. And one of them was a newly transitioning woman.
And to me, she was female. No question. Sure, she was at the beginning, so she had a teeny ways to go in the looks department. But not in the female department.
As I said to her as she was confiding to me, in the ladies room, no less, she was trans.”I went to girl’s schools for ten years, I know from women. You’re all female to me”.
So, from the start it was easy for me to understand trans. People get to be who they truly are. Feel very grateful for her.
And, Eddie, love the kitty!
Bill Arnold
@Alison Rose:
@eversor:
Ah, so “gender” in the way people sometimes extend the biological notion of “extended phenotype” to gender presentation including behavior, and associated cultural behaviors and artifacts. OK, that’s mostly cultural.
I may regret saying this; mind states are at a very coarse level gendered. (Occasionally fluid.)
MazeDancer
@planet eddie: Thank you for putting that info so plainly.
The GOP have done a good job of convincing people surgery is being done willy-nilly on children.
I had to inform an extremely liberal and successful astrologer, for heavens sake, no, underage kids cannot get surgery.
Matt McIrvin
@sab: For what it’s worth, I frequently took my daughter into men’s restrooms with me when she was little enough to require assistance, and never got any grief for it.
sab
@MazeDancer: Yes! There is so much wrong info out there, even by reputable people.
sab
@Matt McIrvin: That is what I thought the norm was.
Babies are babies. Toddlers are people.
sab
Babies are babies.
SuzieC
Sorry if someone has already asked this. My liberal progressive son, ex military, said that he doesn’t think it was fair for a transperson to compete against a cis woman in sports. My lame comeback was “how often do you think that has happened?” He said almost never. What is a better comeback?
sab
@Matt McIrvin: Normal world. We need to hear about this.
sab
@SuzieC: My antisporTs step son thinks this also. He doesn’ t even have a dog in this fight but he cares.
soapdish
@Baud: Round is a shape.
Another Scott
@SuzieC: You could mention Renée Richards who played pro tennis in the late 1970s. She was good, but other women were better.
People don’t come out to try to game the system, or to trick others, or to gain unfair advantage. It just doesn’t happen.
Punching down is never a solution to a problem.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
UncleEbeneezer
@SuzieC: These two links might give you some ideas:
What Critics Get Wrong About Transgender Athletes
1. The transgender athlete won’t seem to die. This is so frustrating, because from a logical standpoint, the answer is so freaking obvious: the current system is not broken. It does not need fixing.
…
pika
Welcome, Eddie! I am so glad you are here and to know that you have been here!
Sister Golden Bear
@SuzieC: That’s actually a pretty good comeback.
Trans girl/women athletes are pretty rare — the Olympics have allowed trans athletes since 2001 and there’s only been 4 trans Olympians and that only occurred at the 2021 Olympics (two trans women and two non-binary people who’d been assigned female at birth). A trans man also qualified for the 2021 Summer Olympics but had to withdraw due to injuries. When the governor of Utah veto’d a ban on trans athletes two(?) years ago, there was only one trans athlete in the state and nationwide, there’s a minuscule number of high school trans athletes, with even fewer going on to compete that the college level (best estimates are roughly three dozen). The NCAA has allow trans athletes since 2010, and only one trans woman, has been a champion in her sport (swimmer Lia Thomas).
But typically trans girl/women in sports are not trouncing women. In fact, one case in New England, the cisgender girl who sued over a trans girl competing in track beat said trans girl handily.
You might also ask him how he feels about trans boys/men competing against cis boys/men. Or against cisgender girls — as a trans boy in Texas was forced to do against his will. He won the state’s girls wrestling championship, although he’s since had an undistinguished college career in mens wrestling
Also worth mentioning that elite athletes are anomalies by definition, with all sort of genetic advantages. See Matt Bondi for example.
eversor
@Bill Arnold:
Yeah that is the way it is being used in the arguement by the right and the religious.
Yes mind states can be and usually are different between biological sexes. Nobody is denying this. But these aren’t hard lines. Both biological sexes wander all over them constantly and individuals do as well depending on their psychological states. So saying “women must be this, act like this, and do this job, and men must be this, act like this, and do this job” is asinine to the extreme. Nobody would deny that male agression is a thing and can be a bit of a problem if not channeled correctly. Testosterone is a hell of a drug!
But the conservative and Christian argument has always been that societal roles and power are based on gender. Gender is on based biological organs. This is a strict binary and can never be violated. Thus men are doctors and women are nurses and this can never be violated. Which we all know is horseshit.
This falls apart when we look at a history of warlords, cross dressing actors, state leaders, Thai lady boys, and on and on. We also have direct evidence from having multi sex military combat units that it’s utter crap and women can fly planes as well. Hence all the crying and moaning about having to have a gynocologist and what bathrooms people are going to use as squid ink. It’s as stupid as the “gays can’t fight” argument which falls to pieces when you look at the Spartans and the Samurai (which the right happens to love both but never grasps what they were). It’s all crap.
There’s a healthy medical debate to be had over when and how to transition a person. This ability didn’t exist for a long time and it’s in a long history of crazy medical advancements. Thing is that’s firmly in the hands of trans folk and doctors and has fuck all to do with religion and their attempts to bring up silly secular side non issues into the conversation.
It’s not worth having an argument with someone who talks about “the gender binary” because it never existed. Going by the traits they want to assign to gender I swap back and forth multiple times a day and I’m very much a straight man.
Quinerly
@Another Scott:
Least we forget that Richard Carlson (father of Tucker) outed Dr. Richards. From Wikipedia:
“In 1976, Richards’s gender reassignment was outed by local TV anchor Richard Carlson l, the father of Tucker Carlson. Subsequently the USTA, the WTA, and the United States Open Committee (USOC) required all female competitors to verify their sex with a Barr body test of their chromosomes. Richards applied to play in the US Open in 1976 as a woman, but refused to take the test, and thus was not allowed to compete in the Open, Wimbledon, or the Italian Open in the summer of 1976.”
Quinerly
Welcome Eddie! Thoroughly enjoyed your TED Talk. Look forward to all your posts!
planet eddie
@SuzieC:
Here’s a pretty good article by the ACLU that I think provides several great responses.
I also like this article that’s a bit more informal but discusses both studies and the actual responses from cisgender female athletes (noticeably, they don’t really care).
Omnes Omnibus
Jesus Fucking Christ, it isn’t that hard to try to use the pronouns people identify with. Maybe you’ll fuck it up sometimes, but that’s no reason not grant people that bit of respect. Enough people are making trans people’s lives shitty that those of us who are putative allies shouldn’t add to it ffs. Get the fuck over it and try.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Thanks for unlurkering and speaking up! That kitty is an old soul, the eyes say it all. Your artwork is beautiful and very expressive.
Sister Golden Bear
@eversor:
No there isn’t. There simply isn’t. There are decades-old, well-established protocols.
You’re buying into the arguments of those who would denying us life-saving care.
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank you for being my anger translator.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Golden Bear:
I am in the “I’ll fuck it up once in while” bucket, but is seems the least I can do. My grandmother who was born in 1921 proudly told me in 2008 that she had voted for the “colored fella.” She didn’t get the terminology right, but she knew how to do the right thing.
Ruckus
@Sister Golden Bear:
I’m up in that age stratosphere of old fart and when I grew up I saw people who were different and often in rather subtle ways and there was always someone to attempt to put them in their place. I italicized that because as one of those old farts I saw people that were different in one way or another and there was always someone who had to try to force that person into compliance with the “norm.” It didn’t make sense then and it doesn’t make sense now. I’ve always asked the question “How the hell does this affect my or anyone else’s life?” And the answer is always at or above 99.999999% it doesn’t.
ginkgo
Very longtime lurker. This post finally made me get up off my rear-end and become a patron.
Eduardo
@Soprano2: lol — depends on socializing. I went to boarding schools in Cuban from 12 to 18 y/o. 80 or 110 kids depending on dormitory size had to take shower together in about 30 minutes. Even in the States in the early aughts the showers in my gym had no divisions. so I honestly had no problem being naked in a locker room or shower. Lately I noticed and also read about younger people not liking seeing us naked so I am more self conscious.
Darkrose
Hi Eddie! Baby is gorgeous! Also, I am currently having coffee out of my Tunch: Our New Pet Overlords mug and thinking of you.
rikyrah
Welcome!
Hope to see more posts from you
David Fud
I am glad you are adding your voice here. Looking forward to more.
whatsleft
@RaflW: $50 monthly contribution. Thank you for doing this 😃
Caroline
I finally had time to watch Eddie’s video – it’s so well written and well reasoned. Congrats Eddie!