There has to be a way to turn all of this around.
There are things we can do in the interim, and we should be doing them, but to make significant change we have to elect Democrats. In the House, in the Senate, and in the White House.
For the next 7 days, the one thing we can do to help turn the tide is help get Janet Protasiewicz elected to the Wisconsin Supreme Court.
Family or friends in Wisconsin? Give them a call, send them an email, send them a text.
On social media? Share this first tweet below on your social media accounts. All of them!
(Hopefully saving zhena the trouble: PROTASIEWICZ)
I appreciate all the support I’ve received after sharing my story. I don’t talk about it much, but I think about what happened on February 5, 2010 often. I just want people to know they aren’t alone.
I also want to discuss solutions. As a mom, I am worried for the future https://t.co/Fbd0fEpZyt
— Joylyn Bukovac (@joylynrbukovac) March 27, 2023
We are failing our children. Guns are now the leading cause of death for children in the U.S.
Michelle and I mourn with the students and families of the Covenant School today. pic.twitter.com/8X9qKKzB9d
— Barack Obama (@BarackObama) March 27, 2023
Ban gun advertising.
Increase the cost of a dealer’s license 100 fold.
Require dealers to have a actual registered business – no straw buyers working out of their homes.
Any dealer that sells a gun without full background check loses the license.
Ban gun shows.
None of these violate the f**king 2nd amendment.
Put them all in a locked room and don’t open the door until there is only one survivor.
Forgot to mention up top that because of this Supreme Court seat, this is being described as the most important election of 2023. And it’s not just Wisconsin saying that.
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
@Bill K: Your first proposal might violate the First Amendment’s protection of commercial speech. Your last might infringe on First Amendment protection of freedom of association. That said, I sympathize with both.
Take away the glamour. They’re tools and should be viewed as such
@OzarkHillbilly: You mean 0 survivors. It only takes a few extra days and well worth the wait.
Add the bartender rule.
If you sell to someone and that someone goes on a shooting spree in the next five years, you’re liable. If that person transfers ownership within three months, you’re liable.
Require insurance for every gun. The economics would drive the corporate insurance companies to lobby for this, and we need someone besides grieving parents to get the attention of our faux legislators.
I can’t get my head around a country that bans Kinder Surprise chocolate eggs because they’re too dangerous for kids yet lets those same kids have AR-15s
@Urza: I am assuming cannibalism by the last survivor. They could last a long time.
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride:
We ban the advertising of cigarettes. Banning the advertising of guns should be just as easy. We previously had limits on advertising hard alcohol, so again, I don’t think this is a one-and-done. This should be easily done, but it’s not like it’ll be easily enforceable with internet advertising, that’s a whole new world to deal with regulations.
Treat guns like cars. Age restrictions, licensing, training requirements, and insurance that covers all forms of liability, including you or someone else using it in any criminal activity.
Can’t wait for someone to complain that reporter is “biased” and can’t be on school shootings anymore.
@kalakal: They banned lawn darts because of one kid. One.
Gun manufacturers have been insulated from product liability lawsuits by legislation. These laws give them protection manufacturers of other products do not have. Eliminating these laws would be one step.
Banning assault weapons would be the logical and likely most effective step. Requiring liability insurance for each weapon sold would be another. Increasing taxes on ammunition would be another. There are ways to do this, but we need more Democrats in office, both nationally and locally.
Overturning DC v Heller is necessary. Citizens United, also too. That means changing the composition of the SCOTUS.
Fight for 15!!
and then execute that one.
A standup comedian — was it Chris Rock? — once proposed that ammo should retail for US$1,000 a round. I still think that’s a good idea.
@tybee: Well now, I don’t believe in violence so I suggest life w/o parole for… Wait for it… Murder.
Is this a good time to remind everyone that the paragon of progressivism, voted against holding the gun companies liable for gun deaths.
How someone who has the same voting records on guns and immigration as a conservative R senator, say a Grassley or a Sessions was able to brand himself the progressive messiah is beyond me. Add to this his sheer disdain for a woman’s right to choose calling NARAL and Planned Parenthood “the establishment”
And yet the leap year Democrat has plenty of fans among D voters.
Your idea is good, just needed a small tweak
@Another Scott: Before we can un-skew the Supreme Court, we need good majorities in both houses and a Democrat in the white house.
@Another Scott: but isn’t it more fun and emotionally satisfying to talk about “monsters” and address the problem by assuring everyone that nothing can ever change, things can only get worse, and that we need to root for harsher conditions and lots of deaths among the enemy monsters?
@WaterGirl: we could seat far better replacements right now, but only with an assist from the grim reaper.
Gin & Tonic
@schrodingers_cat: He won his first Congressional election due to substantial financial support from the NRA.
@kalakal: I can’t get my head around a country that bans Kinder Surprise chocolate eggs and The Diary of Anne Frank because they’re too dangerous for kids yet lets those same kids have AR-15s.
Edited for accuracy and to underline the absolute fucking insanity
BC in Illinois
It’s an argument that only works if you are faced with a *Second Amendment* *Right to Bear arms* advocate who also knows some history . . . but I have sometimes noted that when the crafters of the US Constitution were figuring out what to do with the state militias (not only in the Amendments) and their relationship to the federal government, it was also a hotly debated question, whether the federal government should be permitted to maintain a “standing army.”
I think we have resolved that issue.
Too good not to share: ‘My dog showed no remorse’: Guardian readers on the damage done by their beloved pets.
Gather up all the AR-15s and similar weapons, and dump them into an active volcano.
@EarthWindFire: And now we have to add Renaissance sculpture to the list.
Insanity it is
Meanwhile, the Tennessee Legislature is planning to lower the age at which someone can own a gun. Permitless carry is already law, they want to expand it to include rifles.
Plus hire more schools cops aka SRO and arm the teachers and require that school doors be locked.
They say the real enemy is Drag. sigh……
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
@Evinfuilt: Cigarettes are now recognized by society as a whole as a dangerous product with no healthy or socially beneficial uses — thus not entitled to the usual presumption that commercial speech about them is protected by the First Amendment. Guns, on the other hand, are still seen by millions as useful (for hunting or target shooting) or necessary (for “self-protection”). That makes it look like a much harder pull to get over the First Amendment hill. Not saying it shouldn’t be tried, but I don’t predict success any time soon.
I sent a text to my nephew in Milwaukee. He’s the only person I know who lives in Wisconsin other than a cousin’s ex, so not doable.
@WaterGirl: On Jen Psaki’s new show, she and Eric Holder (Obama’s AG) we’re discussing this and both strongly agreed this election was THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION for 2023. So much rides on if Wisconsin’s supreme court is majority Democratic or Republican.
The thing that everyone should be saying, every single damn time, is that gun violence is the leading cause of death of children. So all of this BUT THE CHILDREN performative outrage about drag and statues and books is just that–performative.
The other thing that has me in a rage today is the effort by Georgia to essentially fire Fani. what. the. actual. fuck.
@Gin & Tonic: I am aware. But many seem to give this fraud a pass. He probably moved to Vt because NYC was becoming to “diverse” for him.
Why Senator White Flight is the standard bearer of progressivism is what I fail to understand. His fan club is global BTW.
@Amir Khalid: Yes Chris Rock and it was $5K per bullet.
@Amir Khalid: It’s a proposal that comes up a lot, but Chris Rock’s version of it was probably the most famous.
My grandpa used to make his own bullets. But that takes effort. And you probably can’t make usable ammo for a lot of weapons that way.
@Kosh III: The latest shooter blasted the whole door down to get in so I don’t think locking glass doors is really going to stop anyone. Now replace those glass doors with metal and maybe that would work.
Apologies if this has been posted or discussed at length. I thought it was an excellent background piece. The complaining parent who got the movie banned didn’t even watch the entire movie:
@Juju: thank you!
@Matt McIrvin: I know two people who make their own ammo; both enjoy shooting competitions, and that makes it more affordable. Yes, definitely a ton of work, though. Both are also hunters. But they have the weaponry they need for the things they like to do; AFAICT, they don’t buy guns for the sole purpose of having a personal armory. I’ve also seen the effort that both of them have put into gun/hunting safety. And neither has an assault weapon.
@UncleEbeneezer: Okay, thank you, somehow I missed that. The Rage Dial got turned down a notch . . . better stay away from the news.
@narya: The interview between John Stewart and a state legislator is a thing of brutality at its most beautiful. A good link: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/jon-stewart-gun-debate-video-dahm-1235340328/
The last four minutes are where the guy talks about protecting children from drag show readings as a government responsibility. Stewart took it to its infuriating conclusion. Ugh.
@OzarkHillbilly: everyone armed: repetitive Tom Jones songs and one bottle of water … then lock the doors
@Geo Wilcox: I want to show that video to everyone who thinks these locks that need a keycard will protect them. I’ve pointed out more than once at work that anyone who wants in will just shoot out the glass in the doors. I hate our “security system” because all it’s good for is to inconvenience the employees.
@Soprano2: What makes them think that a person who wants to get in is not going to steal someone’s keycard, or shoot someone who HAS a keycard, take theirs and use it ??
If you need more motivation, remind them that Dan Kelly was part of the fake electors scheme in Wisconsin. It boggles the mind that this isn’t an immediate disqualification for judicial office.
Local news in case “NBC is BIASED!” makes that story suspect.
@Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride: If DeSantis can pass laws that bans drag shows then we sure as fuck can ban gun shows.
@lowtechcyclist: send them to Ukraine yesterday
Also worth using the exact same arguments that anti-abortion advocates use – and use it for guns. It will drive them nuts.
It is a shame that our kids have become just another political football. From a collection of cells to teens – we’ve politicized them.
It’s so damn depressing that we are all being held hostage by only 30% of Americans (gun owners) and a political party that is forever beholden to them. And yes, like most of our problems, this is another one that is deeply rooted in White Supremacy.
I wish so many hunters didn’t fall for the NRA’s “they’re coming for your guns!” claptrap. because the vast majority of hunters don’t have these huge arsenals, they have a handful of rifles/shotguns. And the kind of regulation we need (proper licensing, closing off loopholes, waiting periods, etc) wouldn’t impact them one bit.
The one that would is insurance, but requiring gun owners to maintain insurance for their weapons would also get rid of a lot of guns that are just laying around: at a certain point a lot of people will get rid of the guns they’re not using rather than keep paying the insurance for something that just sits in a cabinet.
I’m technically a gun owner; I inherited my dad’s when he died. dad hunted for many years, and I did a little hunting with him growing up. Haven’t been in many many years. (and dad had mostly stopped too; preferred to fish rather than hunt) But “mine” are in storage and I’m fine with that. the only reason I’ve considered getting them is to ensure they’re more secure…or to have them cleaned for sale.
@EmbraceYourInnerCrone: Nothing, really. IMHO it’s a “security theater” thing so they can say they are keeping us safe, mostly from delivery people. Part of the problem is so many of my co-workers live in small towns around here; they seem to think every person walking down the sidewalk is a potentially dangerous homeless person (I guess no one uses sidewalks where they live). Besides, usually if a workplace is attacked it’s by an employee!
Sooner or later insurance companies are going to want their piece of the money the gun hoarders are spending on their arsenals. I would think both Mortgage lenders and Life Insurance companies would have a vested interest in the limiting their liability if their customers have a higher risk of death or loss of income due to having assault rifles laying around the house. I don’t understand why they haven’t been front and center in the fight. They were when it came to mandatory auto insurance.
@Soprano2: Here is a Pew Research article about gun ownership and views about gun issues in America. You’ll be shocked to see that the main obstacle to political progress (in addition to the Heller interpretation of 2nd Amendment) is: Gun Owners, White/Rural People and Republicans. I would just add anecdotally, that having spent some time in Black and even Latinx spaces, I would argue that NOBODY worships guns the way White People do. Are there Black, Latinx and Asian-American gun-fetishists? Of course. But the idea that Guns = Freedom is way more central to white culture than for anyone else.
The Moar You Know
@Matt McIrvin: you’re quite wrong about that. Competitive shooters pretty much always make their own or have someone they know well make it for them. And you can make it for any kind of gun in existence. It’s more expensive than buying it off the shelf, but if you need consistency handloading is the way to do it.
The Moar You Know
@cain: we didn’t even need to at the state level, although we should. All the localities that had them in CA banned them. The counties that would have them, there’s not enough people living there for it to be worth it to anyone.
Funny thing: guess what you can’t bring into a gun show? I wonder why.
@UncleEbeneezer: It’s probably because of the whole pioneer thing back when. Unlike most countries – the pioneer days is more of our recent past than say Europe. But in addition, the media has always given a fantasy of the frontiersman in books and movies.
When I was a kid, so many childrens books would romanticize the frontiersman. Davy Crockett etc etc.
# ETA – wow, last thread I was #50, this thread #60!
@The Moar You Know: Primers are the problem for DIY handloaders. It’s possible to make your own but that has a high own goal potential. Taxing and restricting them would be the effective way to control ammo.
@cain: Plus, in Yurrup, we’ve eliminated or controlled most of the dangerous wildlife. In the USA, not so much…
@cain: That’s definitely part of it. I would say it’s a combination of:
• Wild West nostalgia combined with the ever-present
• fear of Slave-Revolts (which evolved into their pants-pissing fear of Crime/Cities/Immigrants…you know, those people…) and of course a whole bunch of
• Toxic Masculinity
Every country has the last one, but the first two are uniquely American and I think have played a huge role in creating our National belief that Guns = Power/Freedom, more than any other country. Combine all that with the 2nd Amendment and here we are, sadly.
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
@cain: He can pass them, but can he get them through the courts? We don’t know yet. Same with gun shows–I don’t know if anyone has challenged bans on those in court. As I said before, I think it’s worth a try. I just don’t think it’s guaranteed to survive a challenge.
@UncleEbeneezer: As a late Boomer, in my formative years TV was packed with western frontier dramas, all white, all about the righteous law enforcer with a gun. It wasn’t until a lecture I went to during the Contra era pointed out how every bit of popular culture plays the “righteous underdog” card; cartoons, movies, TV. The solution is always the same to subdue the side identified as evil: gun violence.
I fear that the growing radicalism of the hard right is about to break out into violence against just ordinary people and those who are obviously nonconforming and liberal. Watch your bumper stickers.
@Maxim: Agreed. These things make sense.
Also…special licenses for certain kinds of guns. You need a different license for a motorcycle or truck, after all
@cain: Which arguments are you thinking of?
@UncleEbeneezer: Possibly Filippinos are as nuts about guns as RWNJ Americans. And some South Americans.
Gun culture is everywhere.