Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Second rate reporter says what?

“Jesus paying for the sins of everyone is an insult to those who paid for their own sins.”

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Hot air and ill-informed banter

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Reality always lies in wait for … Democrats.

Not so fun when the rabbit gets the gun, is it?

Authoritarian republicans are opposed to freedom for the rest of us.

Let us savor the impending downfall of lawless scoundrels who richly deserve the trouble barreling their way.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

It’s time for the GOP to dust off that post-2012 autopsy, completely ignore it, and light the party on fire again.

So it was an October Surprise A Day, like an Advent calendar but for crime.

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

But frankly mr. cole, I’ll be happier when you get back to telling us to go fuck ourselves.

Consistently wrong since 2002

Usually wrong but never in doubt

A democracy can’t function when people can’t distinguish facts from lies.

Happy indictment week to all who celebrate!

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Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / ‘There’s nowt so queer as folk.’

‘There’s nowt so queer as folk.’

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“There’s nowt so queer as folk” is a British idiom that expresses the incontrovertible truth that nothing is weirder than people. In the late 1990s, the iconic Queer as Folk television show debuted, using the reclaimed pejorative “queer” as a double entendre for a show about the lives of three gay dudes in the U.K.

I heard the recent reboot of that show was terrible, but I haven’t seen it. I have seen the first season of a quietly revolutionary series on HBO Max called Somebody Somewhere. The thing that strikes me as revolutionary about it is there are queer characters, middle-aged characters, characters who aren’t conventionally handsome or beautiful or thin, etc., being themselves in Kansas.

There’s no valorizing or villainization going on, for the most part. Just people making friends, mocking each other, falling in and out of love, fucking up, dealing with loss and pain-in-the-ass family members and stupid jobs — basically just living their lives in flyover country.

The second season just debuted, and The Daily Beast has a piece on Jeff Hiller, who plays Joel on the show:

Hiller had similarly never seen a character like Joel on television before, but immediately felt a strong connection to him. “I look how I look. I am obviously gay. I am on the wrong side of 40,” he says. “And I’ve never seen someone on TV who’s religious and happy being religious. And it’s not a joke that they’re religious. And they’re not being persecuted by the Church.”

The actor grew up going to church in his hometown of San Antonio, Texas, and was a theology major in college. To this day, he has friends who are pastors that are “good people focused on social justice, not on persecuting queer people,” he says. “And I just love that that person is finally on TV because that person is totally a real person.”

One reason I like the show is because I recognize those real people too, even in my shitty red town in shitty red Florida. (Also, it’s funny!)

This isn’t a plug for the show, which may not be everyone’s cup of tea, and that’s okay. It just made me remember the expression, “there’s nowt so queer as folk,” and its original meaning, which means ALL folk. We’re all weird, and when we see everyone depicted as living their own weird yet ordinary lives — not as icons, not as victims, not as saviors but rather as regular folks — there’s power in that.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

151Comments

  1. 1.

    Rusty

    People are messy.  It’s a good reminder for politics, family, work, church congregations, communities, schools and so much more.  We are all messy and all need a bit of forgiveness and grace.

  2. 2.

    TaMara

    This show is amazing. I started it on a whim (hadn’t even heard of it when I put it in my queue). Started watching it and couldn’t stop. Can’t wait to watch season 2. Thanks for turning others on to it.

  3. 3.

    akaoni

    My wife and I stumbled on season one and loved it.  So happy this kind of show is out in the world.

  4. 4.

    NickM

    I first heard about this show yesterday, when it popped up as something I might like.  I was curious why I’d never heard anything about it before, even though it’s on HBO.  It looked intriguing.  Thanks for the recommendations — I will give it a try!

  6. 6.

    Mercuria

    I happened upon that show when scrolling through HBO offerings and so happy I landed on it! It’s my favorite kind of show, great in a subtle every day way, like The Detectorists or Better Things, featuring people you’d be happy to live next door to.

  7. 7.

    Suzanne

    We’re all weird, and when we see everyone depicted as living their own weird yet ordinary lives — not as icons, not as victims, not as saviors but rather as regular folks — there’s power in that.

    It is incredibly powerful to see a wide range of people and their lives represented in prominent places. It broadens the conception of “normal” for people.

  9. 9.

    MazeDancer

    Sounds like this show has people to root for. So many HBO shows don’t. First show in a while to go on my list to watch during my annual HBO binge month.

    Tip for those who are between West Wing rewatches: “The Diplomat” on Netflix.

    Well-written, nicely shot, and engaging, interesting casting. Don’t start too late in the evening. You will not want to stop.

  10. 10.

    Mom Says I*m Handsome

    I first saw Murray Hill in a music video by The Regrettes, playing a sleazy Dick Clark type.  https://youtu.be/r0CD4dVYAEY

    So glad to be able to hear so many new voices in the world – queer, riot  grrrl, all of it.  We’ve had centuries of white men, let everyone else have a turn.

  11. 11.

    Josie

    I have often seen it posited that many people can’t accept differences until they see those differences lived out in someone close to them. The next best thing is to see those differences in media–television series, movies, books. I’m so glad that this is happening.

  12. 12.

    trollhattan

    @MazeDancer: Started “The Diplomat” and have to agree, the show has “it.” Cast, writing, acting, attention to detail, all impeccable. Nice balance between drama and humor.

    This time, I think Elizabeth Jennings is on our side but I’m only four episodes in, so…. Husband, sketchy as hell, president and PM, hoo-boy.

    ETA they  reference the Ukraine invasion in nearly real time, so there is a sense of fresh from the headlines about it.

  14. 14.

    Anonymous At Work

    Reading about how TFG and company are reacting to Dorothy’s house falling on Tucker.  I can just imagine the aide whose job it is to explain the concept of “consequences” to TFG, on the first day of a rape trial.

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    “The Girl with the Golden Gun” or, “What do you mean, Australia doesn’t have a 2nd Amendment?!?”

    A US woman has been arrested in Australia after a 24-carat gold-plated gun was found in her luggage.

    The woman, who has not been identified, arrived in Sydney from Los Angeles and did not have a permit for the firearm, the Australian Border Force (ABF) said. She could face up to 10 years in jail.

    Photos released by the ABF showed an airport scan of the woman’s luggage, revealing the firearm inside her bag. A second photo showed the handgun after the bag was opened. In a statement, an ABF official said that sophisticated detection technology had helped stop a dangerous weapon from entering the country.

    “Time and time again, we have seen just how good ABF officers are at targeting and stopping illegal, and highly dangerous, goods from crossing Australia’s border,” ABF Commander Justin Bathurst said.
    Officials said the 28-year-old woman was charged and appeared before the Downing Centre Local Court on Monday, where she received bail. She could also face the cancellation of her visa and removal from Australia, pending the outcome of the court proceedings.
    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-australia-65389727

    Semi-automatic, full-Karen.

  18. 18.

    Ruckus

    We are all different.

    We are all the same.

    Both are true in some way. We are humans. Some act like it in more ways than others, some have no clue.

    But we are all humans. Think how damn boring it would be if we were all the same. Think how many things we wouldn’t enjoy if we were all robots built in the same factory, one after another exactly alike.

    We are all human. Some are grand. Some are evil. Some are selfless. Some are greedy. We are all human.

    We nurture each other. We kill each other. We are all human.

    We are all in each others image, and that image is often blurred, torn, disgusting. We are all human.

    Sometimes it becomes difficult to remember that – We are all human.

    Sometimes we don’t want to remember that – We are all human.

    We are Imperfect in many ways, skilled in many ways, beautiful in many ways, ugly in many ways.

    We are all human.

  20. 20.

    Betty Cracker

    @MazeDancer: Thanks for the tip about “The Diplomat,” which looked like it could be interesting but I was unsure whether to commit because I still feel a bit burned by “Madam Secretary” (better in concept than execution, IMO).  

    @Mom Says I*m Handsome: So funny!

  21. 21.

    Layer8Problem

    We over here were very happy to see Somebody Somewhere has returned.  We’ll wedge it in along with The Diplomat, which we just started.

    By the way, at the end of the first episode we’re left with Ambassador Husband getting a needle in the neck.  Can anybody in the health or espionage industries confirm that’s a possible thing, or is it just a cool visual on the teevee that would probably pierce the carotid artery and cause an immense pile of blood six times out of ten if we viewers tried it at home?

  22. 22.

    trollhattan

    @dc: Agreed. I’ll guess they will be disinclined to cut her slack from violating their laws “because America.”

  23. 23.

    Old School

    The second round of Disney layoffs hit ABC News on Tuesday, with Nate Silver’s data-driven politics and journalism brand FiveThirtyEight among those being impacted.

    Silver told FiveThirtyEight employees in a Slack message that he expects to leave Disney when his contract is up, which he added would be “soon,” The Hollywood Reporter has learned.

    ABC News is expected to keep the FiveThirtyEight brand name, with plans to streamline the site and make it more efficient.

  24. 24.

    MazeDancer

    @Betty Cracker: Have watched less than 5 minutes of Madam Secretary, knew instantly was gonna be not great.

    Imma beyond picky. The Diplomat is the real deal.  Some flaws. But the quirky casting, alone, makes all of them forgivable.

    Have 2 more eps. Apparently, the ending is unexpected.

  26. 26.

    Layer8Problem

    @trollhattan, @Betty Cracker:

    Agreed to both of you.  Madam Secretary was big with my partner, but just didn’t ring all that true with me and Partner really wanted me to like it.  The Diplomat, based on the one episode, doesn’t seem glib, stupid, or painfully didactic for the benefit of the Common Clay of the New West TeeVee Viewership.  I look forward to seeing how well our protagonist and her husband in this show manage to fit the bodies of those who cross them into suitcases.  That’s the sort of thing that tests a professional marriage, as Phillip Jennings can attest.

  27. 27.

    Anonymous At Work

    @trollhattan: TFG’s comments were all about how Tucky was “so good to us”.  100% transactional, all the time.  Probably some fear that if Murdoch is willing to fire Tucky, what’s Murdoch willing to do to TFG?

  28. 28.

    JPL

    @Betty Cracker: I turned off Madam Secretary after the second episode, and I binged this series.

    FYI I watched Somebody, Somewhere last year due to a recommendation from Balloon Juice.   Was that you?   It’s a great series.

  30. 30.

    JPL

    @MazeDancer:  I seem to remember matching sweaters, or at least the same color.   Definitely no matching clothes in the Diplomat.   Keri Ruswell’s character reminds me of Kamala a little.  At least the Kamala that I envision negotiating.

  31. 31.

    jonas

    This discussion reminds me of the hilarious Portlandia sketch where Fred and Carrie let her gay brother and his partner stay in their house thinking that they’ll pick up some amazing decorating and style tips, but the two guys turn out to be complete slobs who make a mess of everything. Somebody Somewhere looks like a wonderfully sweet show. Too bad I don’t have HBO Max, tho.

  32. 32.

    Jim, Foolish Literalist

    @JPL: Keri Russell earned at least a look at anything she does with The Americans.

    A friend of mine told me just a few days ago she could never get into the Americans because she couldn’t get past that syndicated show KR did where her hair was her co-star

  34. 34.

    Mercuria

    @Manyakitty: Yes! Will be looking to see what Pamela Adlon does next. For something else just lovely, look for The Detectorists. I find it on several free streaming services (have ads), as well as Acorn.

  35. 35.

    C Stars

    Somebody, Somewhere is one of those shows that makes me thankful for TV. Did anyone else read the Washington Post article about Ottowa County, Michigan? Reading it, I immediately thought of Somebody, Somewhere. The show is a bright spark of hope, while the article is very dark, but there is also a glimmer in it of people wanting to be decent to each other, even if often they can’t quite bring themselves to do it.

  36. 36.

    dww44

    Is the Madam Secretary referenced in the comments the same as the network TV series  with Tia Leoni a few years back?

  38. 38.

    Betty Cracker

    @JPL: Maybe — I’ve mentioned it a time or two here during TV discussions, but the show has lots of fans in this commentariat.

    Is anyone watching “Tiny Beautiful Things” on Hulu? I started watching it because I glommed onto a free Hulu sub, and I love Merritt Wever in everything and like Kathryn Hahn. Maybe a bit too precious and redemptive for this old cynic; the jury is still out.

  40. 40.

    RedDirtGirl

    I stumbled across this show last year and just loved it. How messy and real it was. Can’t wait to start the new season.

  41. 41.

    Layer8Problem

    Also I’m going to plug Reservation Dogs on Hulu, a different part of the Midwest.

  45. 45.

    Mercuria

    @Betty Cracker: I have watched several episodes of Tiny Beautiful Things. I really enjoyed the book. I like Cheryl Strayed way of inspiring without being saccharine. The show of course is different and, like you, jury is still out. But I do love Merritt Weaver in anything!

  46. 46.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @C Stars: I grew up next door to Ottawa County (in Grand Rapids, which is in Kent County right next door). Will have to read that article. Ottawa borders Lake Michigan and most of the lakeshore towns are pretty tolerant. But between there and Grand Rapids there are alot of fundies downscale Trumpers.

    Somebody Somewhere sounds really good. Unfortunately I don’t have an HBO Max subscription. But now that I’m done with the show I’m about to plug I may drop Peacock and then maybe have room for another streaming service. Speaking of which, I’ve plugged this show here before so pardon me for repeating myself, but Rutherford Falls was great. The big star everyone knows is Ed Helms but the cast and writing team are largely Native American. The showrunner is Michael Schur who did Parks and Recreation, Brooklyn 99, and The Good Place. It should have gotten 5 seasons but has been cancelled after season 2 from what I’ve heard. In addition to Helms, Jesse Leigh and Jana Schmeiding are great, and Michael Greyeyes is fantastic…totally steals every scene he’s in.

  47. 47.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Layer8Problem: If you like that definitely give Rutherford Falls a try. The twist at the end of the first season is brilliant and I did not see it coming.

  49. 49.

    RedDirtGirl

    @Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s funny you mention her hair, because I really liked how regular KR’s hair has been so far in The Diplomat. In fact there was one short clip in the first episode where her hair had obviously been blow dried, given a blow-out, and it really stood out to me. I thought “Oh well, they are going to make her look like every other TV career woman, I guess…” but in the next scene she was back to having scraggy ends and a crooked part. I love it!

    It’s a small detail, but means something to me.

  50. 50.

    Betty Cracker

    @Mercuria: Wever is so good! Folks here turned me onto to “Unbelievable,” a series on Netflix (I think) where she played one of the detectives. She’s also in “Godless,” another Netflix series, also highly recommended.

  51. 51.

    Gretchen

    @Old School: I’m over Nate Silver after he decided that he was a virology/epidemiology expert during the pandemic and spent a lot of time disagreeing with actual experts and sowing disinformation. One of the many guys with expertise in one field who suddenly decided they were experts in Afghanistan/medicine/Ukraine and subject matter experts had nothing to offer them.

  54. 54.

    MazeDancer

    @WaterGirl:

    Yes, they’re good.

    But my favorites are Ato Esandoh as the deputy. Playing someone smart and educated, not a drug dealer or criminal

    And David Gyasi as the British Foreign Minister. Excellent job. Also very handsome.

    @JPL: No doubt Kamala IRL. Though, with less cussing and happy marriage.

  55. 55.

    gwangung

    I have casual acquaintances who have recurring roles on Madame Secretary, so there’s a soft sport for the series (it allows them to do theatre work!). Sorta like how Law and Order allows so many stage actors to pay the rent for a month….

  58. 58.

    raven

    I spent the better part of the weekend and yesterday dealing with various dog crisis.

    I found two unfixed pitties frollicking in the middle of the street Friday. I took them to the ACC shelter Friday and they were closed for Earth Day! I took them to our vet and he was so sweet to take them. yesterday an “unhoused” dude, who is familiar in the neighborhood stopped me in the street while Artie and I were greeting the morning school kid, and asked what I knew. I told him they were probably at Animal Control because the vet said he’d have them pick the two up. I came back from the Y and the dude was sitting on the picnic tables at  across the street and he came over and hit me up again. It was mildly irritating but he was insistent that he just wanted his dog back so I called the vet and they still had both dogs. He walked away in that direction and, when I drove by about 10 minutes later, I saw him out front and the doggie was jumping and wagging with joy at being reunited. I worry about the unfixed male but no one seemed to know anything about him and he hasn’t been claimed.

    Sunday a friend from the dog park sent me a long message about a woman who was ill and had to give up here dog. The message had a laundry list of characteristics and info about the pup and said that she just needed it fostered until May 20. I dutifully put it on the neighborhood FB page and a friend contacted me and said she might do it if I’d go with her to meet the dog and owner at the dog park. We did so and it seems that the owner is a college student, no mention of Andy illness, and is “moving” and can’t take the dog. She also said she kept it in a dog crate and didn’t give it water so it didn’t pee in the crate!! After deliberation my friend decided to take “Luke” with the understanding that she might keep him if the prospective owner fell through.  I guess two out of three ain’t bad.

  59. 59.

    Mercuria

    @Betty Cracker: YES! to both. I may watch too much TV… As for westerns, did you ever see Longmire, also now on Netflix? Another different kind of western.

  64. 64.

    geg6

    I just saw a trailer for this show a couple of days ago and it was hilarious. In fact, the trailer was so good, I decided I had to start watching it. I had no idea what it was about, really, and I had no idea until your post that it had already run for one season. I’m going to find the first season and watch it right away!

  65. 65.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @MazeDancer:

    We binged it last week in two nights. I really liked it, can’t wait for Season 2.

    Was also a big fan of Madam Secretary. And The West Wing, needless to say.

    And I wanted to like Designated Survivor — terrific premise — but there were just too many things going on, and too many story arcs that went nowhere and characters that appeared conveniently when they were needed and then *poof* disappeared. If nothing else, the show would have benefited greatly from a good continuity director.

    But IMO, The Diplomat is one of the best in the genre so far.

  66. 66.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Betty Cracker: Yeah I signed up for Peacock in Winter ’22 when I wanted to watch the Winter Olympics and we were in South Africa adopting a child…it’s the sports that get you. So I set up a VPN and joined for that and stuck around for Rutherford Falls and Girls 5Eva which is hilarious though somewhat less good natured (it’s a Tina Fey show and while I find her comedy frequently hilarious it’s not as good natured as the comedy in Schur shows).

    Poker Face is supposedly good so I might try that before cancelling. Or I’ll cancel and re-join when I drop something else.

  68. 68.

    Jackie

    @trollhattan: He’s throwing a hissy fit about the upcoming GQP debates, because “nobody consulted with him first.” TFG is such a baby – which seems to be a MAGA feature!

    ”“I see that everybody is talking about the Republican Debates, but nobody got my approval, or the approval of the Trump Campaign, before announcing them,” Trump wrote on his personal Internet platform, Truth Social. “When you’re leading by seemingly insurmountable numbers, and you have hostile Networks with angry, TRUMP & MAGA hating anchors asking the ‘questions,’ why subject yourself to being libeled and abused?””

    https://news.yahoo.com/trump-threatens-blow-rncs-2024-191502923.html

  69. 69.

    Jerry

    I absolutely love Somebody, Somewhere. Some of my most favoritest TV shows these days are ones that treat their characters with love and kindness. There’s this show, Reservation Dogs, and Ted Lasso. I’m sure I’m missing more, but those are the three that jump to my mind right now.

  70. 70.

    raven

    We’re watching Marie Antoinette on PBS passport and really like it.  We also watch  D.I. Ray with Parminder Nagra and it is outstanding except that it’s only four episodes. The weird thing is that D.I. Ray is full of profanity and in Marie Antoinette it’s all bleeped out and racy images are distorted???

  73. 73.

    geg6

    Speaking of shows I am very interested in watching, also saw a recent trailer for the HBO miniseries White House Plumbers. It stars Woody Harrelson as E. Howard Hunt and Justin Theroux as G. Gordon Liddy and the producers are famous for their work on Succession (which I started and quit because I hated it) and Veep (which was nothing short of brilliant). It’s the real story, but, based on the trailer, looks like it has a sense of humor. I always love Woody, so I have to see it. Starts Monday.

  74. 74.

    Roger Moore

    @C Stars:

    The thing that got me about the article about Ottowa County is how quickly the Republican insurgents fell out with each other.  It really sounds as if there’s one leader who really has a program to push and a bunch of people he brought with him so he’d have enough votes to enact it.  The moment a couple of those followers stopped acting as a rubber stamp for his plans and started acting the tiniest bit independent, he was happy to discard them.

  76. 76.

    trollhattan

    @geg6: I’ll watch. Those mooks deserve any and all mockery they might get, for criming on behalf of Richard Fucking Nixon.

  78. 78.

    hueyplong

    @Jackie: Trump’s only feature that competes with his cruelty and narcissism is his cowardice.  He’s making an excuse not to appear onstage for any extended period at anything that isn’t one of his rallies.

  79. 79.

    Alce_e _ ardillo

    @Layer8Problem: There is no possible reason to stab someone in the neck, unless you want to kill them…

    This has been a Hollywood trope which makes no physiologic or anatomic sense, but it keeps being repeated mindlessly.
    An intramuscular injection, or an IV would be far better to give medication, but it is not violent enough I guess.

  80. 80.

    Baud

    @Jackie:

    He’s throwing a hissy fit about the upcoming GQP debates, because “nobody consulted with him first.”

     

    There appears to be a mini-firestorm among a small number of the online left because Biden won’t be debating Marianne Williamson and RFK, Jr. Fits hand in glove with Trump’s whining.

  81. 81.

    Roger Moore

    @Gretchen:

    Nate Silver and some similar people really annoyed me because he did the worst thing a supposedly fact-based person can do, which is to start with their policy preferences and then look for facts to support them. One of the things he did really well in 2016 was to separate his policy preferences- he clearly wanted Hillary to win- from his factual reporting, which said Trump had a real chance.  It let him point out that the election was way closer than anyone thought and we shouldn’t count it as in the bag.  It was incredibly disappointing to see him ignore that when it came to the pandemic.

    I think it’s a dangerous side angle on another common people will do, which is to say that “the facts say we need to do XYZ”.  The facts never say what we need to do.  The evidence can tell us what kinds of things are likely to happen if we make different policy choices, but it’s up to decide what outcomes we like.  Maybe we think the choice is so obvious it barely even counts as a choice, but we should say that rather than claim the facts say we need to adopt a particular policy.

  83. 83.

    C Stars

    @What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?:  Yeah, it seems like it might be a pocket of funtamentalism. Many of the commenters on the article who either grew up in MI or live there now commented that not all of the state is that provincial and Republican. In case the paywall is an issue, here’s a gift link to the article: https://wapo.st/41E8HUa

    I thought it was very well reported. And, well, just sad. Good news is that the County Health Commissioner in the story, Adeline Hambley, was recently (in the last few days) granted an injunction and will keep her job for the time being, although I guess her lawsuit is ongoing.

    @Roger Moore: Yeah, it seemed like a few of those Republican county commissioners weren’t totally aligned with the burn everything extremism of the new guard. (Regardless, the whole board seems like a den of vipers).

    The leader of that far-right Impact group (Moss is his hame, I think) has the appearance of a completely innocuous nerdy 25 year old D&D player or something; it’s hard to believe that he’s so aggressive and awful.

  84. 84.

    narya

    I stumbled on Heartstopper this weekend, and binged nearly the whole first season. It’s sweet; I enjoyed it and will finish it off eventually. It’s apparently based on a series of graphic novels.

  86. 86.

    Roger Moore

    @C Stars:

    The leader of that far-right Impact group (Moss is his hame, I think) has the appearance of a completely innocuous nerdy 25 year old D&D player or something; it’s hard to believe that he’s so aggressive and awful.

    Maybe if you had played more D&D, this would be less surprising to you.  Plenty of those nerdy players can be frightful assholes.

  87. 87.

    Layer8Problem

    @Alce_e _ ardillo:  That’s what I figured, and that’s the one thing so far in the show that bugged me.  I can accept that stuff in a John Wick film because I expect it to be an over the top spectacle.

  89. 89.

    Roger Moore

    @Layer8Problem:

    You have to accept a certain degree of dramatic license with this stuff.  Shows will often have things portrayed unrealistically in order to look better.  A couple of other classic dramatic license things I’ve come to accept are monologing and having major characters lives be unreasonably eventful.  Monologing (and more generally having characters stop mid-event for an exposition dump) can be clumsy, but sometimes it’s the least clumsy method of letting the audience know what’s happening.  Similarly, having a consistent cast who have unrealistically eventful lives saves the trouble of having to introduce a new cast of characters every episode.

  90. 90.

    Tony Jay

    @Baud:

    There appears to be a mini-firestorm among a small number of the online left because Biden won’t be debating Marianne Williamson and RFK, Jr.

    A shot of tequila every time Joe looks to his right and says “Well, I don’t think crystals are the long-term solution to that problem.”

    A shot of absinthe every time Joe looks to his left and says “Seriously, what’s wrong with you, man?”

    A shot of morphine directly into a tear duct every time Joe looks at the audience and says “I’m missing the Eagles for this, can you believe it?”

  91. 91.

    C Stars

    @Roger Moore: I admit I don’t play at all. My kids do in the scope of a local afterschool program, the organizer and DM of which is this incredibly sweet dude in his 20s or early 30s who totally gets the 9-12 year old demographic. He looks a bit like that Moss character from the article, so that’s where I get the association.

  92. 92.

    karen marie

    I have not seen – nor heard of before this thread – Somebody Somewhere but just hearing about it warms my cold, cold heart.

    I’m going to take this opportunity to slip in two recommendations somewhat related – both on HBO.  The first is Whoopi Goldberg Presents Moms Mabley.  The second is Mavis!

    I don’t think I ever heard of Moms Mabley when she was alive, so this was eye-opening for me.

    The Staples family first came to my attention in 1992 when I got my hands on Pops Staples’ Peace To The Neighborhood.  I fell in love with his voice and his energy.  I Shall Not Be Moved is glorious.  Mavis is a force in her own right, and everyone should hear her.

  93. 93.

    persistentillusion

    @geg6: Justin Theroux as G. Gordon?  Perish the thought.  One of my favorite stories is vacationing in the Bahamas in the 90s.  We went out to eat and were seated at a long banquette with two tops scattered along its length.  Seated next to us was G. Gordon and a woman clearly not his wife (equally learly a professional).  She kept cooing “Oh Gordon, a split of champagne!  How lovely.”  She had a voice like a New Jersey cockroach and he appeared to be enjoying her company.  Ick.

  98. 98.

    UncleEbeneezer

    Another great tv show for your less-typical depictions of LGBTQ characters is Sex Education.  They are all high school students but some are Black, some are White, boys, girls, non-binary, some are proudly out, some are more reluctant.  It’s a very nice example that LGBTQ people like any other group, aren’t a monolith.  It’s also the most laugh-out-loud and weeping-happy-tears show on tv.

    Also, for a stand-alone episode, The Last of Us had a brilliant episode called Long, Long Time that showed the rare, middle-aged gay couple in a post-apocalyptic setting.  It has a very sad ending but the overall episode was truly lovely.  Fashion/Pop-Culture bloggers Tom and Lorenzo did a great write up of why it was so moving to them (spoilers in post) and even got pretty choked up talking about it on their podcast:

    Today, cis queer male love does not lack for depictions in popular culture, especially if they’re white men. There’s no way we can sit here and claim we’ve never seen some aspect of ourselves or our marriage in various onscreen depictions in the past decade or two. Part of the relatively minor backlash against Bros was because the film oversold its white cis male love story as being more revolutionary than even a lot of white cis queer men considered it (these two included). After a while, on the matter of representation you feel like the need to see yourself has either been satisfied enough or that you have reached the inevitable point where popular culture is going to reflect yourself back at you with less and less frequency as you age out of the most desirable advertising demographic. We can’t say we’d ever truly felt like we’d been neglected by not seeing more of ourselves in post-apocalyptic stories.

    But there was something lip-quiveringly, eye-wateringly delightful to us watching two middle-aged gay men survive the apocalypse by singing Linda Ronstadt songs, arguing about paint colors, taking care of the house, and apologizing for getting old faster than the other one. In other words, with this episode, we watched ourselves thriving at the end of the world, an image so foreign to us that we never really noticed its glaring absence in our imaginations.

    (spoiler removed)…

    There were several moments that made us cry, but the one that reduces us to weepy puddles is when Bill bites into his first strawberry in a decade and giggles like a little girl. Do we need to see ourselves – specifically us – in stories like these? We might have said no or not really before this, but we don’t think we can quite describe the feeling of seeing two middle-aged gay men in love, in the apocalypse, giggling over strawberries. Because yes, that is absolutely something we would do. We’re writing this well before the episode airs and we know damn well some of you reading this have headaches right now from crying so hard. We also know a great deal of you aren’t gay or queer. Yes, this is a universal story about love and survival. This is also a story that did a stunning job depicting a very specific version of gay life. It can be both.

  100. 100.

    Mercuria

    @raven: I’ve watched both. I *think* Marie Antoinette was censored by PBS b/c it was broadcast on local PBS stations and now we are all too immature to deal with naughty words and images. I’ve been watching PBS since I was young and we weren’t so squeamish in the 70s/80s. I find it very annoying. DI Ray is not being broadcast, as far as I know, available only on streaming, so no bleeping or blurring required.

  101. 101.

    WaterGirl

    @Tony Jay: That made me laugh.  Thanks for that

    It would totally demean Joe to be on the stage with Williamson and the other losers.  Plus, then the media is covering all the stupid stuff and now what should be covered.

    Good choice not to have debates.

  102. 102.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I just started the tv series From, by the same people who did Lost, on Hulu.  It’s pretty good but nothing spectacular.  It’s a supernatural, suspense/horror story that takes place in a tiny town in (presumably) rural America.  I don’t want to give more than that away.  But if you like stuff along the lines of True Detective, you may wanna check it out.  It has a very Stephen King kind of vibe.

  104. 104.

    Layer8Problem

    @Roger Moore:
    Yeah, I agree. How a story gets told, how action is expressed, within a time constraint. Why are there no seat belts on the Enterprise’s bridge chairs in the original series? ” . . . Roddenberry instantly replied, ‘Bob, if we had seat belts, then people couldn’t fall out of them.'” There’s boring old real life, reason, and logic; and there’s storytelling. And yet I still cringe a lot of the time when I see someone doing something computer related on TV or in the movies because too often they’re doing it wrong.

  105. 105.

    Mercuria

    @Betty Cracker: Longmire was a good watch! Features Katee Sackhoff, who I enjoy watching, and a good number of Native American actors you will recognize.

  106. 106.

    Old School

    From Politico:

    For nearly two years beginning in 2015, Supreme Court Justice Neil Gorsuch sought a buyer for a 40-acre tract of property he co-owned in rural Granby, Colo.

    Nine days after he was confirmed by the Senate for a lifetime appointment on the Supreme Court, the then-circuit court judge got one: The chief executive of Greenberg Traurig, one of the nation’s biggest law firms with a robust practice before the high court.

  107. 107.

    Suzanne

    @WaterGirl: I wouldn’t mind seeing Joe in some sort of Q-and-A forum ILO debates, though. He’s personable and he does well in those things, and I think it would blunt some of the criticism hat he will get.

  109. 109.

    Betty Cracker

    @UncleEbeneezer: You wrote a comment here quite a while back about that particular episode of “The Last of Us,” which my husband is very intermittently watching, and since Nick Offerman guest stars in it, I was intrigued because I love him so much.

    You commented that it wasn’t necessary to have watched the rest of the series, and by golly, you were absolutely right, because I hadn’t seen any of until I watched that one episode over the weekend. I was a freaking puddle afterwards! It’s a beautiful, quirky love story and completely standalone.

  111. 111.

    les

    @Betty Cracker: Ran into Diplomat by accident. Couldn’t decide if I liked it, he said after finishing all he could find in 3 days.

    By the by-Somebody Somewhere looks good; but it ain’t happenin’ in Kansas, says the Kansas guy.

  113. 113.

    oatler

    @Mercuria:

    In the 70s PBS had Monty Python boobs and The Four Hundred Blows for an afternoon movie. Now we have biweekly pledge drives involving Ten Steps To Better Brain Health seminars.

  114. 114.

    WaterGirl

    @Suzanne: You think he should do those with Williamnson et all?

    Like a town hall where all 3 of them are there?  Or they are serially there?  I think that would be a mistake.

    Biden doing some town halls with local groups, not the big media outlets?  He should definitely do that!

  116. 116.

    The Kropenhagen Interpretation

    @Suzanne: It will be good for Mr. President to have a warm-up too. Town halls may be the way to go.

    Trump will be fresh off a bunch of debates, presumably, and Marianne Williamson and RFKminus aren’t worthy debate partners.

    If I need advice on crystals, I know whom to ask. But that’s not going to help anything more than my emotional state, the President needs something a bit more substantial.

  117. 117.

    JPL

    @Suzanne: True.  It’s difficult to dis trump and his refusal, if the democrats aren’t going to hold debates.   It’s easy to point out that it is uncommon with presidents running again, but the magas and the press have memory issues.

  119. 119.

    JMG

    @trollhattan: Saw a report, which I have no idea as to its reality content, so it could be nil, that Trump will go to Tallahassee to personally lobby the legislature to kill the amendment. That’d be awesome, but I think Trump’s too lazy to do it.

  120. 120.

    JML

    I can’t say I’ll be all that unhappy if 538 goes away. Their one big trick (poll aggregation vs panting after the latest horse race) has gotten stale and is getting manipulated by GOP astroturf pollsters in the same way that biased polls used to drop at a convenient media flashpoint before. Their actual attempts to do data analysis of elections isn’t very good, and most of their staff are unimpressive, with more ability to generate a clickbait statement than serious analysis. (they’ll all fit in just fine in other Beltway publication, assuming they went to the right schools and have a family connection to pull a string for them on the East Coast)

    Silver is a smart enough guy, and was early in on the data revolution that came for baseball and did some good work there. And the kickoff to 538 was pretty good as well. but he’s not a patch on Josh Marshall as a journalist, and hasn’t really done much to apply his kind of analytics to every other field that he thinks “needs it” very well.

  121. 121.

    JPL

    @Baud:  just sayin!   They probably will complain about Biden biking every day.

    This made me laugh

    Ron Filipkowski

    @RonFilipkowski

    ·
    4h

    I think the biggest problem with Trump participating in primary debates is that he’d have to plead the 5th to half the questions.

  122. 122.

    Tony Jay

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s a great episode. But it’s also a great show. Very well acted, and not afraid to make its protagonists assholes at times.

    And if you liked Bill and Frank, the flashback episode showing how Ellie first got bit is just as sweet and heartbreaking.

  123. 123.

    PJ

    @JPL: ​
      When he takes the Fifth, just say, “I’m sorry, Mr. Trump, this is not a legal proceeding and you are not entitled to avoid answering on the grounds that it could be evidence you are a criminal. You have to answer the question,” and watch him throw a fit.

  124. 124.

    Roger Moore

    @JML:

    Silver is a smart enough guy, and was early in on the data revolution that came for baseball and did some good work there.

    I would argue this point.  Silver was not by any means “early” to the data revolution in baseball.  By the time he got seriously involved, Bill James had been using advanced baseball statistics literally for decades, and teams like the Athletics and Red Sox had been using those ideas to build winning MLB teams.  Silver was able to make a bunch of money selling his ideas to Baseball Prospectus, a statistically oriented publication that had already been out there for several years by the time he got involved.  Far from getting in early, he got in just as advanced statistics had really taken hold, which meant he was in position to make money from them.

  125. 125.

    Tony Jay

    @WaterGirl:

    That’s the problem with a field cleared of any credible challengers, the incredible challengers come out of the woodwork and make the Media all a’quiver with their nonsense.

    He should send Hunter out to debate them for him. But only if Kermit the Frog hosts it and it’s an audience of animated Minions. Really lean in to the ridiculousness.

  126. 126.

    Steeplejack

    @Layer8Problem:

    LOL. I hate fake computer typing in movies and TV. Dunno why it bugs me so much. I always wonder, do actors never learn to type? I mean, they could just type “the quick brown fox” or something and it would look realistic.

    Another pet peeve is that when people are carrying a suitcase it’s always obvious that it’s empty. I mean, put something in it or, I don’t know, do some acting to make it look like it’s got something in it.

    I should probably go spend four hours at TV Tropes.

  127. 127.

    Quinerly

    My favorite theory so far:
    “Rupert Murdoch was perhaps unnerved by Carlson’s messianism because it echoed the end-times worldview of Murdoch’s ex-fiancée Ann Lesley Smith, the source said. In my May cover story, I reported that Murdoch and Smith called off their two-week engagement because Smith had told people Carlson was ‘a messenger from God.’ Murdoch had seen Carlson and Smith discuss religion firsthand. In late March, Carlson had dinner at Murdoch’s Bel Air vineyard with Murdoch and Smith, according to the source. During dinner, Smith pulled out a bible and started reading passages from the Book of Exodus, the source said. ‘Rupert just sat there and stared,’ the source said. A few days after the dinner, Murdoch and Smith called off the wedding. By taking Carlson off the air, Murdoch was also taking away his ex’s favorite show.
    Smith did not respond to a request for comment.”
    https://www.vanityfair.com/news/2023/04/tucker-carlson-fox-news-rupert-murdoch

  128. 128.

    Roger Moore

    @Steeplejack:

    I hate fake computer typing in movies and TV. Dunno why it bugs me so much. I always wonder, do actors never learn to type?

    I suspect the problem is more with the sound work than with the actors typing.  I don’t know why the sound effects people don’t have a more realistic set of typing sounds.  If they really cared, they could have different effects for people typing ordinary text, doing data entry, programming the computer, and the like.  They certainly ought to have typing on a range of keyboards; the sound of a laptop keyboard is very different from a regular desktop, and they’re both different from a good mechanical keyboard.

  130. 130.

    Steeplejack

    @Roger Moore:

    You’re right about the sound. I try to limit the stuff I get mad about, because there’s just too much. Like the good-guy hackers editing a gigantic stream of code on the fly to prevent the bomb going off at the last minute, etc., etc.

    Speaking of keyboards, I think I am in the market for a new (mechanical) one. My aging DasKeyboard is starting to double-clutch (auto-repeat) on some keys—notably the space bar—and I think the problem is more than just dust or something minor. (Although it occurs to me that I could give it a good shake upside down and see if that helps.)

  131. 131.

    Mercuria

    @oatler: PBS has grown old with us? I’m really puzzled though, by the increased modesty.  PBS is not likely to get pledges from the pearl-clutchers, are they?

  132. 132.

    TS

    @trollhattan:

    the Australian Border Force (ABF) said

    I so hate this name – used to be called “Customs & Excise” – but now everything has to sound like the military. Public service people turned into an untrained army.

    Meanwhile, no doubt the lady with the gun will plead ignorance, the 2nd, 5th or some other amendment not relevant outside the US and will be sent back to the US (minus the golden gun). With a half decent lawyer she won’t see the inside of a jail.

  133. 133.

    Roger Moore

    @Steeplejack:

    I have a Logitech wireless mechanical keyboard.  It isn’t a super-premium model, but it does feel good to type on.  When I bought it a couple of years ago, it was basically the only reasonably priced option.  I think the selection has improved since then, though.

  134. 134.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Quinerly:

    In late March, Carlson had dinner at Murdoch’s Bel Air vineyard with Murdoch and Smith, according to the source. During dinner, Smith pulled out a bible and started reading passages from the Book of Exodus, the source said. ‘Rupert just sat there and stared,’ the source said.

    You know who else was fond of quoting scripture? Satan.

  135. 135.

    Steeplejack

    @Roger Moore:

    The selection has definitely improved. I got my first DasKeyboard when it was an oddity to have that old-style clicky feeling. My current one is my second, and even it predates the boom in mechanical keyboards. Now there is an embarrassment of riches to choose from. Guess I’ll check the Wirecutter and see what they like.

  139. 139.

    Quinerly

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    Thanks for my afternoon laugh.

    The article also references how senile Rupert is. Settled the Dominion case because he would have been a disaster on the stand.

    I have read that Gabe Sherman is the go to person for all things Fox. I assume he has solid sources.

  141. 141.

    trollhattan

    The enemy of my enemy is [checks notes] still my enemy, but the enemy list got shorter.

    The Islamic State mastermind believed to have been responsible for the 2021 bombing at Kabul’s airport has been killed by the Taliban, US officials have said.

    The August 2021 bombing killed 170 civilians and 13 US troops as people were trying to flee Taliban-controlled Afghanistan. US officials told BBC’s US news partner CBS that the leader died weeks ago, but it took time to confirm his death.

    His name has not been released.

    US officials said they determined through intelligence gathering and monitoring of the region that the leader had died, though they did not provide further details on how they learned that he was responsible for the bombing.

    “Experts in the government are at high confidence that this individual…was indeed the key individual responsible,” a senior US official told CBS.

    It is unclear whether the leader was targeted by the Taliban or if he was killed during ongoing fighting between the Islamic State and the Taliban. On Monday, the US began notifying families of the deceased troops about the death of the IS leader.

    The blast came hours after Western governments warned their citizens to stay away from Kabul International Airport, because of an imminent threat of an attack by IS-K, the Afghanistan branch of the Islamic State group.

    It happened around 18:00 local time on 26 August 2021 at the Abbey Gate to the airport, when a suicide bomber walked into the middle of families waiting outside the gate.

  142. 142.

    JML

    @Roger Moore: Red Sox didn’t start winning titles until 2004; Silver developed PECOTA prior to that before becoming a partner at Baseball Prospectus in 2003. I’d say that’s right around the time that more advanced statistical analysis was actually being integrated into teams, not after.

    Sure, he was behind Bill James, but everyone was.

  143. 143.

    Roger Moore

    @JML:

    It’s not just Bill James.  It’s SABR, which was founded in 1971 and had a statistical committee pretty much from the start.  It’s John Thorn and Pete Palmer, who published The Hidden Game of Baseball in 1984 and Total Baseball starting in 1989.  Total Baseball was even made the official encyclopedia by the 4th Edition.  It’s Retrosheet, which started to build a complete library of play-by-play for every baseball game ever played starting in 1989.  It’s Baseball Prospectus, which started in 1996, and was a nice going concern well before Silver got involved.  FWIW, I knew all the principals at Baseball Prospectus because we were all regulars on rec.sport.baseball, which is where Prospectus got its impetus.  They were all in on advanced analysis way before Silver was.

    FWIW, more advanced baseball statistics have been used by teams for a very long time, dating back to Allan Roth working for the Dodgers in 1947.  Earl Weaver was famous for relying on situational statistics as part of his managing.  The Athletics and Red Sox got heavily into statistical analysis well before they started winning, which isn’t surprising because it takes years to build a successful team.  The Athletics really started with it in the mid 1990s under Sandy Alderson, who was Billy Beane’s mentor.

    The point is that Silver wasn’t in on the ground floor.  He got involved when advanced statistics were starting to take over the game, which is why he was able to make a bunch of money right away.  The foundation was already built long before he got there.

  144. 144.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @C Stars: they’re still in the F*cked around phase of rule my right wing nut job. Some of them are starting to find out. When enough people get to the found out phase, they’ll kick the bums out. These people can’t stop infighting. Not sure if you saw the drunken belligerent shoving match between the MI republican party head and one of her rivals but the head is the woman mentioned in the article that was championed by the mook running the county. It’ll be a circular firing squad in about 5 minutes. It is sad though – Ottawa County’s Lakeshore towns are really nice. My dad taught computer science at Grand Valley State University which is, I think, the college they were doing STD testing at  

  146. 146.

    El Muneco

    @Roger Moore: Yeah, I was also there(*). By the time he bought his way in to Baseball Prospectus with the PECOTA projection system, it was 15 years after Bill James’s first Major League Equivalencies. It was definitely an evolutionary, rather than a revolutionary step.

    Also, it was almost exactly 50 years after Earnshaw Cook’s revolutionary but impenetrable and mostly useless Percentage Baseball.

    (*) For the record, I was also a regular on rec.sport.baseball for a number of years from 1990, and you might even remember me by my real-world name, although in humility it would probably be a stretch.

  147. 147.

    Miss Bianca

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: My sister went to Grand Valley State back in the very early 70s. That whole area of Michigan seemed so cool to me, as a child of the suburbs. I am sorry to see it has devolved 50 years later into a GOP hellhole.

    My hope is that all the sensible people left there can get together and vote the bums out.

  148. 148.

    El Muneco

    Re: “Nowt as queer as folk”

    There’s a lovely bit in the sadly-forgotten The Full Monty where the two leads are taking a smoke break and notice that a couple of their male friends are very, well, comfortable together. Since it was unexpected, one of them reflexively goes “well, nowt as queer as folk”. Then they make eye contact, and realize the unintended double entendre and snort with laughter.

  151. 151.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Miss Bianca: She might have had my dad for a math professor. The campus back then seemed weirdly futuristic – all early ’60s modernist architecture. It was pretty fundie back then even – Allendale, where GVSU was – was dry and so we’re several other townships in the county.

    The places along the Lakeshore are a different story as they rely on tourism and draw all kinds. I didn’t pick up on a lot of the retrograde attitude as a kid as I was a blond little white boy so fit right in. And they weren’t as political back then. Honestly IMO they’ve gotten worse since then… I’m sure a lot of them hated gays and were casually racist but in most aspects of their lives they were reasonable and I don’t think the vast majority would have acted out on those attitudes. Then their preachers started preaching right wing orthodoxy rather than the gospel, Fox news and talk radio came along and amplified and reinforced that message and then Trump came along and gave them a figurehead.

    The thing I find weirdest is the willingness, even enthusiasm for being lied to. They’re turning on Fox for firing the guys whose been lying to them for years. They’re not made about the lying, but that maybe someone will start actually telling them the truth. They were always that way about certain things but not about everything. But you can only go on that way for so long before reality smacks you in the face. That’s when the found out phase sets in.

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