Dear Donald,
Payback’s a bitch.
Open thread.
— Grammer đ (@PillowDetails) June 17, 2023
This made me giggle.
— Mickey (@wmcd1985) June 17, 2023
I may start using this one in my Indictment posts.
— Mimi Ai Against Nazis. (@MimiAi) June 17, 2023
— Denise (@Londonrose2020) June 17, 2023
When you’re a famous prosecutor, they let you do anything.
— I'mKimZarykIsTheDog (@Zaryk_vonderk) June 17, 2023
Totally open thread.
Parfigliano
As far as TFG not paying for the crowd at that Miami restaurant I figure he only screwed his dipshit followers so fuck them. Should have seen it coming.
WaterGirl
@Parfigliano: Â I don’t know the story.
So he said meals were on him so everyone would go to the restaurant, and then he stiffed the owner? Â What a crook.
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Yeah, when he stopped at the cafe after the arraignment, he yelled out “food for everyone” and then didn’t buy anyone a single thing. But of course, his fans will blather about it and be like “he bought everyone lunch!!!!” and call it fake news if you correct them
ETA Linky
MattF
@WaterGirl: @Parfigliano: You all may recall David Farentholdâs investigations in the WaPo of Trumpâs multiple public claims of charitable donations. The short version is that he stiffed them all. All of them. Every time. So, this is his standard behavior.
WaterGirl
Okay, I laughed out loud at this one.
Geminid
@Alison Rose: Trump fans disregard the adage: beware of worshipping idols with feet of cray.
UncleEbeneezer
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
Yeah, the UFO subreddit has been going crazy lately.
At least it’s not QAnon stuff.
That’s silly. Where do you think we got WordPress from?
Marc
These Jack Smith memes are starting to remind me of the last time a heroic prosecutor was going to save us from TFG.
OzarkHillbilly
Me too.â
bbleh
I remain somewhat amazed that that ONE picture of “Jack Smith” in his Klingon dress uniform has so firmly established the image of him as an utterly bad-ass prosecutor that pretty much everything else that has happened has been interpreted in that light.
Miss Bianca
@UncleEbeneezer: I.love it when someone takes the actual trouble to debunk the latest round of solemn nonsense coming from the “Aliens! They’re real! The government just doesn’t want you to know The Truth ™!” crowd.
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: I think the funniest part is the obvious question about how these super-advanced aliens can build spaceships that make it here but then crash or get shot down by what would to them be the technology of a sling shot!
JaySinWA
@Baud: They are using the alien tech to hide the alien tech from us!
Alison Rose
@Marc: So a federal indictment means nothing to you?
JaySinWA
@UncleEbeneezer: Wait a minute, David and Goliath is just a story?
Tony Jay
Following on from my little rant yesterday about Flobalob Johnson being absolutely eviscerated by the Privileges Committee for lying to Parliament about all the parties the Tories were having during strict Lockdown.
Well more videos are staring to leak out. I guess theyâre not being held back for a rainy day anymore, so itâs raining documentary evidence of how despicable these people actually are.
BTW, the Shaun Bailey mentioned was the Tory candidate for Mayor of London.
Needless to say, Rickety Rishi the Flatpack PM is still nowhere to be seen. Youâd have thought the Press would be asking about nothing else but, yâknow, heâs got The Peopleâs Business to worry about. That or heâs hiding in a fridge somewhere.
bbleh
@UncleEbeneezer: ok so the guy who posted this obviously either is part of the massive yet impenetrable government coverup that somehow has remained intact for over 50 years but is only being exposed heroically today OR he’s in league with the aliens — maybe even an alien himself! Â Either way, this proves that aliens are here, QED.
dmsilev
@UncleEbeneezer: As anyone who played the original Civilization game can tell you, every once in a while a couple of guys with spears can take down a battleship.
Baud
@Alison Rose:
People who talk about things that will “save us” usually are upset that others are not focusing on thing they believe will actually save us.
Cjcat
Alison Rose
@Baud: A meteor?
Alison Rose
@Cjcat:
What in seven hells makes you think he would?
mrmoshpotato
Cave in Dump’s fat, orange, fascist face with the evidence!
Tony Jay
@UncleEbeneezer:
To be fair, thatâd be like dropping a 747 in a field outside Bronze Age Mycenae and wondering why the Greeks werenât sporting fighter jets at the Siege of Troy.
If you donât know how it works, and especially if you donât even have the science to understand the principles behind the design of whatever the fuck it is, why is it hard to believe they just sit there in a lab getting looked at by generations of completely baffled monkey brains?
âItâs just a ring, man. A frigging green ring thatâs made out of nothing weâve seen before and nothing we do to it works, it just frigging sits there hovering in mid air with that force-field around it.â
 âOh well, keep at it. You know what they say, where thereâs a will, thereâs a way.â
kalakal
@Alison Rose:
Andy Borowitz has the scoop on the follow up to TFG’s restaurant welshing
APB
Uncle Cosmo
Just FTR that movie poster should read
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: Or just being kill-joys.
Tony Jay
@Alison Rose:
You guys have April Fools Day, donât you?
OzarkHillbilly
@Cjcat:
@Alison Rose:
I don’t see a pardon in this universe or any other, tho I can not discount the possibility of commuting the defendants sentence.
Another Scott
@UncleEbeneezer:Â @Alison Rose:Â @Tony Jay:
They’d probably use the pieces to make stuff like ceremonial blades:
Cheers,
Scott.
Cjcat
@Alison Rose: Â I read some speculation somewhere about that and was curious to see how the jackals would take it.
bbleh
@Cjcat: What if Biden were to pardon Trump? Would that be good or bad politically for the country…
I cannot imagine it would be good for the country (or Biden) for him to let Trump get away with yet another, perhaps his worst, crime. Â It would put up in blazing lights the principle that, at a certain level, people are not held accountable for even the worst crimes (compare what’s happened to other people who have violated the Espionage Act to a far lesser degree).
And it would not serve as a deterrent to Trump, nor would it discourage his followers. Â He’d say he never did it, that the so-called “pardon” was unnecessary, that accepting it does not — contrary to established practice — imply an admission of guilt, that he’s going to run again and win even if the statutes he violated forbid it, and the Supremos would probably agree if it ever got to them.
So I’d say it would be a catastrophic flaming disaster for the country, and so also for Biden, but one that Biden — who has shown himself to be very politically astute — would never be a part of.
YMMV. Â (Or you’re pulling our legs.)
piratedan
@UncleEbeneezer: as a fan of SF, the one ever overlooked maguffin when it comes to faster-than-speed-of-light travel is the fact that if we accept that the universe is STILL expanding, and that some galaxies are also still expanding and yet older ones may be collapsing upon themselves, what are the calculations involved in going from here to there with all of this spinning going on in individual systems and then within the galaxy itself.
hence we see the solutions of worm holes, jump points and folding space and travelling upon the waves of other activated particles that move faster than light itself…. I’ve likened it to trying to shoot an arrow from a moving vehicle into another moving vehicle travelling a different speed on a different highway that is more or less parallel, but not quite.
then again, when you’re talking such vast distances perhaps nuance like that just gets your brain fried…. and you start wondering if your baseline assumptions are completely untenable.
Marc
I am skeptical that this indictment will result in a conviction, either before or after the election.
M31
I want Biden to come out and say “If Trump had manned up and pleaded guilty to all the stuff he’s obviously guilty of, I’d have thought about pardoning him”
(LOL and then not do it, because RULE OF LAW, MOFOS)
Tony Jay
@piratedan:
Which is the point when you realise that itâs not enough to travel in Space, you also need to be able to travel in Time to link up the start and no end points through an expanding Universe with huge variations in the temporal warping effects of gravity⊠and you just shrug, sit down with a beer, and wait for the Blue Box to arrive.
japa21
@Marc: Are you going to answer the question?
prostratedragon
Not everyone at Versaiiles was a TFG cultist (WaPo).
Bonus earworm for the day: “Lazy Afternoon,” Grant Green. Pretty sure I’ve posted it before, but over 50 years later I haven’t got tired of it, so enjoy or skip.
Jackie
@Parfigliano: I hope those suckers and losers didnât find out until AFTER they ordered and had to cough up the đ” đ”!
Baud
@OzarkHillbilly:
I would accept commutation that involves taking Trump to the dilithium mines on the penal asteroid of Rura Penthe, there to spend the rest of his natural life.
Cjcat
@bbleh: Â I am not pulling your leg exactly. It was an idea I ran across and it was idea I had never considered. It kind of blew my mind and I was curious to see how this blog would take the suggestion and if I myself would be attacked for introducing it. So, yeah, I am testing you guys out a little.
Baud
@prostratedragon:
Some were Louis XIV traditionalists.
Alison Rose
@Marc: To paraphrase one of the rotating tags, “You are pre-disappointed. What a surprise.”
Is it possible it’ll work out that way? Sure. But I don’t think it’s a given, and even if it it does, that won’t be Jack Smith’s fault.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: Jack hurry up and indict this prick!
Nominated!
Alison Rose
@Cjcat: Where did you run across it? The No Labels twitter account?
Geminid
@piratedan: One UFO theory I saw was that the UFOs’ origin is Earth, from many years in the future.
I did see an alien once while driving through Roswell, New Mexico. It was 15 feet tall, green, and holding up a Dunkin’ Donuts sign.
đŸBillinGlendaleCA
I’m taking issue with the thread title, I have to go to work in a hour and a half. Lazy afternoon, not for retail workers(I did just finish being off for 5 days).
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
Oh, man!!
Cheers,
Scott.
Cjcat
@Alison Rose: Â I couldnât sleep last night so I was surfing a bunch of sites. Â I really donât remember. Might have been empty wheel, HuffPost, wapo, AP. I donât remember.
Baud
@Another Scott:
That one confuses me.
kalakal
@piratedan: I’m a big fan of Alastair Reynolds Revelation Space universe. As an astrophysicist who used to work for ESA Reynolds refuses to use FTL travel.
He has an interstellar civilization with all sorts of freaky tech but the fastest you can go is near light speed
Jackie
@Cjcat: âWhat if Biden were to pardon Trump?â
The same Biden whoâs refused to grant TIFG continued Executive Power (rightly so) and has forbidden TIFG from receiving Daily Presidential Briefings – as is usually customary for former presidents???
kalakal
@Baud: And others were mirror restorers
WaterGirl
@Marc: Hmm. Â But there was something different about Mueller. Â Hmm, what was it?
Oh wait, his hands were tied but the Attorney General Barr.
And he didn’t indict anyone.
Jackie
@kalakal: LOVE IT!!!
WaterGirl
@Uncle Cosmo: Yes!
Geminid
@Cjcat: People like Cenk Uyger have pushed this idea ever since the indictment, and it’s all over Twitter now. They don’t say that Biden should pardon Trump; they say he probably will, but without a shred of evidence to support the claim.
This is to distract people from the significance of the indictment by turning it into another “feckless Democrat” story. A typical bad-faith approach by Uyger and his peers.
kalakal
It’s super hot here, definitely an afternoon for indolence
Here’s Stanley Clarke for the soundtrack
Quiet Afternoon
Skepticat
Disturbing is an understatement. I believe it would be very bad, largely for the reasons bbleh cites at 33, and I certainly hope Biden will continue to laugh at the very thought.
Baud
@Geminid:
I wouldn’t say not a shred of evidence. The fact that DOJ indicted Trump after these same people said it wouldn’t tends to prove that Biden has few options left to betray the left other than pardoning Trump.
Q.E.D.
UncleEbeneezer
Another Scott
@Cjcat:
It looks like the vast majority of Biden’s pardons thus far have been related to drug offenses. TIFG hasn’t been charged with those – yet.
Comey [ spit ] said in an interview in January 2021 saying that Biden should “consider” pardoning him. DougJ makes fun of the idea, and of course the RWNJ enablers go with it to keep TIFG in the news, and because only Democrats have agency.
It’s not a serious proposal. Biden isn’t going to short-circuit the prosecution.
As someone above said, maybe TIFG will get let out a little early (e.g. when he’s on his death-bed). But he’s, IMHO, almost certainly going to prison – the only question is how long.
The whin[g]ing is going to be epic (“the food!”, “they expect me to work for $0.25 an hour!”, “I can’t watch TV all the time!”, etc.).
FWIW.
Cheers,
Scott.
moops
Echos of Fitzmas, and Bobby Three Sticks Mueller. Sorry, but when investigators/prosecutors are getting memed it just makes me think this is going to be another Lucy and the Football moment.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Â As soon as I posted that tweet, I added:
Another Scott
@Baud: They want to stamp the arms of kids who don’t have lunch money.
Grr…,
Scott.
Spanky
@Another Scott: Stamping the arms of hungry school children? Did I miss a meme somewhere?
zhena gogolia
@Marc: Have you read the Mueller Report? Are you aware that its findings are being used in the current investigations? The Mueller Report is a thorough, damning document.
Baud
@Another Scott:
I do think it’s more likely than not that they will do a house arrest rather than a real prison, given the security risks.
There’s also a good chance he dies before he has to serve time, or the judge gives him a light sentence, especially if it’s Cannon.
JWR
@Cjcat:
I gotcher answer right here!
It did wonders for Nixon. (The rest of us, not so much.)
WaterGirl
@Baud: Yep, too long, and trying too hard. Â And, yes, confusing. Â I would grade that as a C-, not worthy of DougJ.
Let’s see what that does to his average…  that’s one million hit out of the park, and one stinker.  Conclusion: he’s still looking good! :-)
Baud
@Another Scott:
Thanks. I hate to see what comes after stamps.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
The Biden shout out has gone to his head!
Yutsano
I’m officially disgusted with the Washington Post opinions section. Specifically, that they allowed George Will let his racist freak flag fly over the Supreme Court letting the Indian Child Welfare Act stand. It’s enough to make me puke.
EDIT: that should be a gift link. WaPo wasn’t being all that coöperative.
UncleEbeneezer
@WaterGirl: Also the Mueller crimes (obstruction) took place while Trump was POTUS. Â The Espionage Act crimes for MAL documents took place when he was no longer POTUS. Â That’s a pretty significant legal difference since there is no OLC memo preventing former Presidents from being charged by DOJ on crimes they commit after they are no longer President.
kalakal
@JWR: I have a two word opinion for Rich Lowery, the second word is “off”
JPL
@Another Scott:Â From the feed the rich crowd for sure.
Another Scott
@Baud: If it were just Cannon, maybe. But there’s January 6 coming up. And national security cases are taken very seriously by prosecutors and juries. She can only throw so much gravel in the gears, and Jack has 250+ more documents he can use for a new case if necessary.
(I’m still NAL.)
Given the way TIFG keeps confessing to crimes, Teri may be right that he doesn’t care if he’s convicted (because he thinks his sleepy (non-woke) mob will free him and make him God-Emperor).
We’ll see!
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@moops: Huh.  So some random yahoo on the internet creating a meme influences whether and how the Special Counsel indicts the  defendant?
I’d like to know how that works, because of that’s true, here on Balloon Juice we (apparently) wasted a lot of time and money raising funds for boots on the ground organizations, when we could have been creating memes instead!
Yes, I am being sarcastic.
Parfigliano
@Another Scott: Closest TFG gets to prison is an ankle monitor
Jackie
@WaterGirl: đđ»
WaterGirl
@Parfigliano: Ankle monitor plus duct tape for his mouth, and no access to the internet?
I could live with that.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Apparently it’s pronounced in a Spanish manner, not French.
JPL
@Parfigliano: trump can be safely housed on a mlitary base.  That’s my hope.
Geminid
@moops: I guess I shouldn’t be surprised that people still have PTSD from the Fitzpatrick investigation. Still, it seems very passive-aggressive at this point. I mean, I was disappointed at the time, but I got over it. I don’t cherish my grievances.
Another Scott
@Parfigliano: If he confesses, maybe.
We’ll see if he confesses.
This is much bigger than TIFG. The whole US national security system depends on accountability – it will hugely broken if he doesn’t confess and doesn’t do time after conviction.
Garland and Smith have both said that nobody is above the law. They are right, and they mean it.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@JPL: Levenworth, coming right up!
Or Gitmo!
zhena gogolia
@moops:Have you read the Mueller Report? Are you aware that its findings are being used in the current investigations? The Mueller Report is a thorough, damning document.
zhena gogolia
@Geminid: I can’t even remember what it was about. đ
WaterGirl
@đŸBillinGlendaleCA: Well, lazy for some of us, anyway!
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia: Oh, so it was about GWB. I never had any illusions about that one. So I didn’t participate in “Fitzmas”! I’m a realist.
Dangerman
Damn, Dude has cold eyes. The kind of eyes that say “I’m looking at recipes for Rocky Mountain Oysters, Donald, so maybe plead out if you like them where they are.”
zhena gogolia
@WaterGirl: I want him
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Nobody wants to work anymore.
zhena gogolia
@Dangerman: I loved the chilling detail that he was staring fixedly at TFG as he slowly left the courtroom.
In that TikTok Law and Order parody, he’s the one who really looks like he belongs on the show!
rikyrah
Gen X deathtrap playground đ
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8Jd3AmD/
Baud
@rikyrah:
Is Peanut32008 your peanut?
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: I feel certain that he would love you if he met you!
Phylllis
@UncleEbeneezer: This story ran in today’s Charleston Post and Courier. The sale was conducted on behalf of a forefather of Edward Ball, who is worth a read. You could not find his book in any bookstore in the Charleston area when it first came out.
Geminid
@zhenvengeance. This was the investigation as to who leaked Valery Plame’s identification as a CIA agent. That was done to discredit her husband, the diplomat who threw cold water on the claim that Saddam Hussein had purchased a large quantity of unrefined uranium (“yellowcake”) from Niger for a nuclear weapons program.
I think some people loaded all their anger over the Iraq War onto that investigation. They really thought it would provide some sort of vindication. By then the decision to go to war had bee discredited anyway, by the result. But the case still could have provided vengeance..
WaterGirl
@Baud: I hope you’re not referring to Henry! Â I mean, just in the time since I posted the first picture, he moved to the other side of the bench!
Kirk
@Baud:
Well, that explains all the crashes.
Phylllis
@Dangerman: Or in the immortal words of DI Fred Thursday, “I’ll have your cobblers for a key fob.”
The Thin Black Duke
Isn’t it interesting that people who never posted here before are talking about Biden giving Trump a pardon.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@WaterGirl: Some people get upset when other people enjoy the wrong thing or have fun the wrong way.
UncleEbeneezer
@zhena gogolia: Also, the Mueller Report led or contributed to federal convictions of: Bannon, Stone, Flynn, Manafort etc. Â They are only free because Trump had power to pardon them.
trollhattan
@Another Scott:Â âHo-lee shit.
karen marie
@Baud:Â Â That made me LOL
@OzarkHillbilly:Â I’m still using the Chrome add-on that changes “Trump” to “Individual-1.”
trollhattan
@The Thin Black Duke:Â âIt’s such a non-starter I can’t find the keys.
Biden â Ford. End of story and besides, Trump can’t hold resigning over Biden’s head on account of Biden kicking his butt in the election. Trump has no power. None, nada, zilch.
Steeplejack
Somebody was asking about this general topic this morning or last night.
Boris Rasputin (the evil twin)
@bbleh: Years ago, my partners in drink and I tried to write the World’s Worst Movie, featuring alcoholic superheroes from outer space. The idea was, the drunks who failed out of the Academy were pressed into service when the Masters saw early TV shows from Earth and decided we needed help, now.
Then we learned about Ed Wood, and gave up. We couldn’t match his incompetence.
karen marie
@Tony Jay: Forget the lockdown – those people are DRUNK. When did that become acceptable at work?
JoyceH
The other day the Post had an op-ed about why Biden should pardon Trump. The comments section was… vociferous. I joined in. A pardon of Trump would be a disastrous idea! Ford pardoning Nixon had some justification at the time, but in hindsight, that was a horrible idea, too. But Trump would be so much worse! Nixon at least WENT AWAY! Trump would take a pardon to be complete vindication, and crow about it triumphantly – and he’s running again! He’s running again promising utter devastation, ‘retribution’, and gutting the federal government. He needs to be taken down. Locked up, beggared, disgraced – and everyone who enabled his reign of error needs to join him. They could have their own cell block. That would be nice for him – they could stand up and applaud when he shows up in the dining facility, like they do at Mar A Lago.
Ihop
@JPL: just like Frankie five angels.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
He must be exhausted.
JWR
There he goes again, with that laughing hyena thing he does with his face.
karen marie
@Marc:Â I’m less skeptical there will be a conviction, and completely skeptical that any conviction will result in a prison sentence.
prostratedragon
Ah, Stanley Clarke … that was a good one!
Kayla Rudbek
@đŸBillinGlendaleCA: I was working today as well (end of the quarter is coming up). I would rather have been out at a yarn show at a winery, but hopefully next time.
Tony Jay
@karen marie:
Apparently this was a Christmas party arranged by some of Baileyâs staffers at Conservative Party HQ. At the time London was under strict Lockdown restrictions that made non-household gatherings an offence. Those are the restrictions those f#âŹ%#âŹs are sniggering about on the video.
Believe it or not, the Metropolitan Police saw this evidence and decided it didnât show enough proof of rule breaking to merit prosecution.
Where do you even start with untangling all the incestuous back-covering going on there?
Wapiti
@JPL: Fort Liberty, if only for the irony.
WaterGirl
@Baud: LOL, literally!
WaterGirl
@JWR: It’s so awful. Â Why isn’t anyone telling him to stop doing that? Â Maybe the people on his team don’t want him to win the nomination?
Tony Jay
@WaterGirl:
Itâs looking more and more like the tiny humanoids operating Starship RoDS have failed to get on top of the overheating problem and theyâre stuck with leaving the penthouse aperture open until the contractor turns up.
bbleh
@WaterGirl:Â @JWR: Â look, at least they’ve got him to stop dislocating his jaw entirely and trying to swallow the person next to him whole. Â Baby steps …
Brachiator
@UncleEbeneezer:
Slow news day and I have been away from the Internet. But thanks to recent news stories, I have been thinking about this ufo stuff. I am extremely skeptical and mainly don’t care. Until someone shows some actual alien stuff, I don’t care. Perfectly kept secrets? I don’t think so.
But I thought of a sci fi story where scientists had discovered some alien tech, but were totally frustrated because they could not figure it out. It was too advanced.
Scout211
Scout211
And your daily moment ofÂ
zencrazy from the TruthSocial garbage bin:I did not know that Joe Biden stole FIVE MILLION DOLLARS, did you?
zhena gogolia
@Phylllis: đđđ
kalakal
@JWR: Is he about to shed his skin before a growth spurt?
bbleh
@Scout211: “Five MILLION dollars, Mr Bond!”
kalakal
@Scout211:
Sorry, can’t resist
Dr Evil
Jackie
@JWR: I like the first comment: âWhy is he pooping?â
Does he not look at these pics and see what everyone else sees?
Brachiator
@JoyceH:
Totally agree with you! Some pundits claim that pardoning Trump would heal the nation, but any schism has been caused and exacerbated by Republicans. Trump and his partisans would definitely see any pardon as vindication.
I might see the value of a pardon if Trump is convicted, served some time, and apologizes for his actions. The apology might not be sincere, but any contrition would at least show that he accepted some responsibility for the harm he caused.
James E Powell
@kalakal:
I had the exact same thought.
Jackie
Ooooh, this made me rub my hands together gleefully! Bahahahaaa
ââMark Meadows, the former White House chief of staff under Donald Trump, is âthe central witnessâ in the Department of Justiceâs (DOJ) probe into the January 6, 2021, Capitol riot, according to former U.S. attorney and legal analyst Harry Litman,â Newsweek reports.â
different-church-lady
@JWR: Governor Edgar Bug.
different-church-lady
@Brachiator:
BLOWJOB: “THE RULE OF LAW IS COLLAPSING!”
TREASON: “We need to forgive and forget for the good of the country…”
CliosFanBoy
Thank you for all the nice thoughts about my wife and I losing our little wiener dog, Candy. We were happy to give elderly dogs some last few years of love, but I don’t think we could do that again. Not after having to say goodbye to three within a year. When we eventually adopt a sister for Jazz, we’ll get an adult, maybe even another special needs dog, but not an elderly dog again. Not yet.
There is a cute photo of Candy on the September page of the 2023 “A” calendar.
https://balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/review-the-2023-pets-of-balloon-juice-calendar-a-9-1030×806.png
Jackie
âFintan OâToole: âSecrets are a kind of currency. They can be hoarded, but if kept for too long they lose their value. Like all currencies, they must, sooner or later, be used in a transactionâsold to the highest bidder or bartered as a favor for which another favor will be returned.ââ
ââTo see the full scale of Donald Trumpâs betrayal of his country, it is necessary to start with this reality. He kept intelligence documents because, at some point, those secrets could be used in a transaction. What he was stockpiling were the materials of treason. He may not have known how and when he would cash in this currency, but there can be little doubt that he was determined to retain the ability to do just that.ââ
ââBefore the publication of the grand juryâs indictment, it was possible to believe that Trumpâs retention of classified documents was reckless and stupid. The indictment reveals that recklessness and stupidity are the least of his sins.ââ
I totally agree.
https://www.nybooks.com/online/2023/06/10/the-ultimate-deal/
kalakal
@JoyceH:
Thank you for putting into words exactly how I feel about this pardon nonsense. It’s both ludicrous and dangerous.
@Brachiator:
Roadside Picnic by the Strugatsky brothers is a good riff on that. It was made into the film Stalker by Tarkovsky
persistentillusion
@karen marie: And that sweater! Who chooses to wear something that most closely resembles vomit?
JWR
@bbleh: And how do you know that wasn’t his post-feeding belch face? Yum! ;)
smith
People keep looking to investigations of J6 and the GA election tampering as additional chances to bring TFG to justice, but I keep having this niggling anxiety about that, namely, has it been established that a former president can be prosecuted for crimes he committed while still in office? Both the J6 and GA cases fit this criterion.
On the one hand, Nixon was offered a pardon and accepted it for crimes we assume he committed while in office. To me that strongly suggests that the consensus at that time was that yes, Nixon was subject to prosecution even though he was president when he offended.
On the other hand, there is a policy not to pursue sitting presidents, and instead rely on impeachment as the remedy for lawbreaking. Does that extend to crimes he should have been (and in this case was) impeached for? I can easily see a whole bunch of Very Important Thinkers opining that we had our chance, and now it’s too late.
Has anyone seen any informed discussion of this?
Marc
I’m skeptical of this particular indictment as I believe that Judge Cannon, the District Court for the Southern District of Florida, the Eleventh Circuit, and/or the Supreme Court will find various means of kicking this can down the road long enough that, one way or another, the issue of a conviction will become moot.
zhena gogolia
@CliosFanBoy: Oh, what a sweetie! I’m so sorry.
Frankensteinbeck
@Jackie:Â â
Actual recordings of Trump talking, backed up by the evidence of how he handled those documents, says that he kept intelligence documents because they make him feel important and presidently. He is happy to show them off for free. It was certainly a deliberate and (badly) calculated crime, that much is true.
Layer8Problem
@CliosFanBoy: You and your wife are very good people. Your dogs were safe, secure, and loved at the end of their lives. I’m glad there are people who have enough love in their hearts for animals like them.
scav
@persistentillusion: Iâm more bothered by those suspenders on the plastic man â and I think I read heâs one of BoJoâs honorees so damned with still fainter praise.
The Thin Black Duke
I think the severity of Trump’s sentence will be predicated on who he’s willing to drop a dime on. He did have help getting into the White House, after all.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Re pardoning Trump: How about if we just follow the law? In emotional situations, that’s a useful rule of thumb.
WaterGirl
@Scout211: He literally makes stuff up. Â Totally random stuff that he pulls out of the air. Â Or out of somewhere more crass.
He has no shame. Â No bottom.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Yes!
Balloon Juice thread on that from Thursday, if anyone wants to see the conversation.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: As to no bottom, I dunno, that picture of him âplaying tennisâ suggests otherwise
WaterGirl
@smith:
That doesn’t have to be established in particular. Â The only thing that has been established is the OLC memo that says you can’t prosecute for crimes WHILE IN OFFICE.
Those things are against the law, and Trump is no longer president, so there is no issue.
Anoniminous
@UncleEbeneezer:Â â
About any other claimed sighting I say nothing. About the Roswell Incident old timers around here that I trust say if W.W. Brazel said he saw something he saw it. Also the actual crash site was closed for 71 years and only opened in 2018.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: ha! Â Figuratively no bottom, not literally! :-)
Brachiator
@Yutsano:
I have some sympathy with Will’s position, but ultimately support the Supreme Court’s decision.
Will ignores history and past attempts by state and federal government to practice genocide on native people. And he doesn’t really get the impact of attempts at forced assimilation of native children.
But I also find everything that Justice Amy Coney Barrett writes about protecting children to be creepy and disingenuous.
The historical treatment of native people has been horrendous, and yet the native mother in this case tried to do the best for her children and wanted them to be placed with a non Indian couple.
And there is something barbaric about potentially separating the siblings in order to preserve their native identity.
The past was cruel. Does the present need to be, as well?
But George Will is totally full of shit when he writes this:
In the past, native people were not allowed to leave their reservations. And yes, they were prevented from adopting non-Indian children.
The dissents by Alito and Thomas are wretched and are simplistic appeals to the tyranny of states rights.
Frankensteinbeck
@Scout211:
@WaterGirl:
In this case, it’s something the House joke investigations have been going over. Maybe you’ve heard about the FBI document that there was fuss over whether it could be turned over in physical format?
A totally real friend of Giuliani in Ukraine told the FBI that Biden was selling US policy favors for 5 million dollars. The FBI could find no evidence supporting this statement. Who was that friend? Uh… THEY DIED! Yeah! Seriously, that’s what the Republicans are saying. This mysterious person died and cannot be produced or identified now.
Dr. Jakyll and Miss Deride
@smith: I’ve seen no informed discussion, but my uninformed impression is that both rationales for not prosecuting a sitting president — impeachment as the constitutionally provided remedy, and fear of interfering with the functioning of the presidency — are inapplicable to Trump now, and therefore nothing precludes prosecuting him now for crimes he committed whenever.
trollhattan
The Sac Bee has seen a copy of the release form signed by the immigrants Florida paid to fly to Sacramento. It’s looong but the article is probably paywalled for most, so here ’tis.
Sort of a No-takebacksies contract.
Steeplejack
@CliosFanBoy:
She was a beautiful girl. Condolences again.
Anoniminous
@Another Scott:Â â
Personally I think Free Lunch kids should be tattooed with a registration number and forced to wear a yellow star with a “W” on it.
Scout211
@WaterGirl:
This $5M that Trump is crowing about is actually coming out of the GOP House âinvestigation.â They have a fake FBI witness  (the one that Comerâs crew say they now canât find and Guiliani says is now dead) to a fake bribery scandal. Letâs call it the âBiden, Burisma bugaloo.â Â
Hereâs how Fox is reporting this:
ETA: or what Frankensteinbeck said at #159
Brachiator
@Scout211:
Fox News and Republicans are desperate to create a phony Biden Crime Family in order to protect an actual Trump Crime Family.
Pathetic.
Another Scott
Mr. Smith is watching…
Cheers,
Scott.
Baud
@Brachiator:
It’s is pathetic, but the same pathetic gambit worked in 2016 with respect to the Clinton and Trump Foundations.
But the media seems less accommodating this time.
Elizabelle
@CliosFanBoy: Â I have been thinking about you today. Â Know how much you miss Candy, and knowing that you gave all those little dachshunds such wonderful last years may not be enough comfort.
Sometime, I hope that you and Mrs. Clio can visit Passau, Germany (on the Danube) to see the Dachshund Museum. Â Not to be missed! Â Bring your doxies, if you can.
https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/dackelmuseum-dachshund-museum
Half hour! Â I think I spent two. Â And went back the next day. Â The owners are wonderful. Â Great gift shop.
The German site: https://www.dackelmuseum.de/dachshund-museum-passau.html
Scout211
@trollhattan: huh. I donât see any words en Español.
Odie Hugh Manatee
Pardoning TFG would be like pardoning a malignant tumor. Fuck that static.
Frankensteinbeck
@trollhattan:
IANAL, but I’m pretty sure that contract is hot air with no legal value.
bbleh
@The Thin Black Duke: that IS interesting now you mention it. Â One trusts they are reporting the reactions accurately to their masters.
Another Scott
Happy Caturday to all who celebrate.
rofl.
Cheers,
Scott.
Chris T.
@piratedan:
I still think the answer is more along the lines of: “Whoa, they’re made of baryons and they communicate using lightwaves! How weird and backward they must be!”
Cjcat
Just to clarify, I was referring to the possibility of Biden pardoning Trump after he was convicted not before. It didnât even occur to me that any one would consider a pardon before actual conviction. I said I couldnât wrap my head around even that possibility. A prior pardon would be Nixon redux.
Tony Jay
@Frankensteinbeck:
JUDGE – Your informant is dead?
RUDI – Thatâs âsuspiciously and convenientlyâ dead, Your Honor.
JUDGE – Do you have any documentary or video evidence to support any of these claims that you allege your informant made?
RUDI – Not on me, Your Honor.
JUDGE – Do you have it within your power to provide this court with any documentary or video evidence to support any of these claims that you allege your informant made?
RUDI – Your Honor, my informant âsuspiciously and convenientlyâ died before they could provide me with their explosive evidence.
JUDGE – Then can you identify your informant in order to enable this court to judge their credibility?
RUDI – Out of respect for the anonymity my informant requested in order to protect them, and their family, from retaliation, I would rather not say.
JUDGE – So youâve got no evidence, no access to evidence, and you wonât say who your informant was? I confess Iâm baffled as to what business you have with this court, Mr Giuliani?
RUDI – To reveal the truth, Your Honor. On my honor.
JUDGE – Case very much dismissed. Bailiffs, clear the room.
RUDI – To the Press Conference!
Frank Wilhoit
@Cjcat: Nothing could be worse. Most of where we are right now is down to the Nixon pardon.
Baud
@Tony Jay:
Munchkin Rudi: As Coroner I must aver, I thoroughly examined her, and she’s not only merely dead, she’s really most sincerely dead
UncleEbeneezer
Biden isn’t gonna pardon Trump if he’s convicted. Â He hates the fucker as much as we do. Â It’s one of the things I love about him.
Citizen Alan
@Chris T.: Every science fiction property that involves people traveling farther than from one solar system to another is is essentially based on a magic. Whether it’s hyperspace or warp engines or an addictive spice that causes people to evolve into giant blobs that can fold space, in the end, i’s all scientific garbage. I wish someone would make a movie or t v show based on the old Starjammers RPG. The ships were literal seagoing vessels that were able to fly into outer space through the use of magic spells. Far more plausible in my view.
zhena gogolia
@UncleEbeneezer: Bingo.
Jackie
@Frankensteinbeck: Thereâs also the Hannity interview where TIFG mentioned Nixon got $18 million for his documents. Of course the Presidential
DocumentsRECORDS Act changes that potential blackmail, but TIFG doesnât understand that, apparently.edited
CliosFanBoy
@Elizabelle: that looks like a wonderful museum! thank you.
karen marie
@WaterGirl:Â Â Don’t forget a bag over his head.
Jackie
@Jackie: Presidential Records Act.
Missed the edit clock
Cjcat
@UncleEbeneezer: Biden is one of the most skilled and effective Presidents of my long life. He would do what he thinks is best for the country and his political life and put personal feelings aside. I have enormous  respect for him. If he did it, I bet he would have some kind of behind the scenes deal that would neuter Trump, at least figuratively and possibly literally as well.
WaterGirl
@UncleEbeneezer: No one pardon’s existential threats to democracy.
Matt McIrvin
@Baud: I think Cannon is going to make sure Trump walks when this case goes to trial, one way or another. But she has no power to do this for the other indictments he has and will have.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: I fixed it for you.
Matt McIrvin
(The person who may end up with the power to nullify at least Trump’s federal convictions is, of course, Trump himself. He could end up as the first President to be elected from prison and pardon himself out of there.)
Jackie
@WaterGirl: Thanks!
karen marie
@Brachiator:Â Â It’s crazy-making.
It’s IOKIYAR writ large.
Matt McIrvin
@WaterGirl: Gerald Ford did.
different-church-lady
@Scout211:
NARRATOR: “It was not a human source.”
Matt McIrvin
@kalakal: Yeah, though, Reynolds was not above putting in magic-tech that was really just about one half-step below a faster-than-light drive in implausibility.
different-church-lady
@Tony Jay:
RUDI: What is this, a courtroom?
Eyeroller
@Matt McIrvin:Â â
You realistically cannot even get to near light speed. Collisions, high-energy radiation, and immense energy requirements make it basically impossible. And of course a particle with nonzero rest mass cannot achieve lightspeed since at that point the relativistic mass goes to infinity. And faster-than-light travel violates causality. Perhaps subatomic particles can do that and appear as antiparticles, but we can be sure that nothing macroscopic can achieve warp speed.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@Eyeroller:
Sabine Hossenfelder has some thoughts on the subject
catclub
@Alison Rose: â I think given a conviction and given an acceptance of guiltBiden could pardon to save the prison system money.â
One more given: given he is re-elected first.
WaterGirl
@Matt McIrvin: I don’t think he recognized it as an existential thread to democracy.
Even my little Henry could probably see that today.
catclub
@Frankensteinbeck:Â â
Not only that, the telling happened in June 2020, which was 5 months before the election, and nobody in Trumps FBI told Trump about it. Totally likely.
Ken
Harry Turtledove’s “The Road Not Taken” has the opposite premise — that FTL travel is based on such a simple principle that most races discover it around the same time as bronzeworking. The first aliens to invade Earth receive a nasty shock…
frosty fred
@Citizen Alan:Â â
Doctor Who has done everything. See “Enlightenment,” an episode with Fifth Doctor Peter Davison. (I don’t remember how the ships got into space, maybe it wasn’t magic, but they were definitely sailing ships.)â
â
â
NotMax
@Frankensteinbeck
Minor impediment, once the House committee chair brings out a Ouija board.
//
Timill
@Brachiator: Actually, alien tech is easy to fix: https://www.amazon.com/Bobs-Saucer-Repair-Nikki-Book-ebook/dp/B07TCN8WYB
As for the writing, it’s an argument against self-pub IMO.
Kayla Rudbek
@CliosFanBoy: sorry for your loss.
kalakal
@Matt McIrvin: oh for sure, Reynolds is quite happy to get very magic tech when he wants but he does have this thing about FTL is a no-no.
He indulged the sailing ships in space trope full time with the Revenger books. They’re set in a far future with the solar system converted into a Dyson swarm of mini habitats with light sail powered ships and society having gone through a series of dark ages so no one understands the technology. Silly but fun
sdimond
@Cjcat: The fundamental mistake was Gerald Ford pardoning Richard Nixon!