I was totally blown away by this. The beauty of it, the sadness, the respect, the recognition.
h/t mrmoshpotato
Truth pic.twitter.com/0YB6WxO5yI
— Hadrian Temple (@HadrianTemple) June 18, 2023
For those who don’t want to click:
Open thread.
Reader Interactions
134Comments
Comments are closed.
FelonyGovt
That is very beautiful, and it made me cry when I read it. However, I’m NOT a good person and I would still rather see Pat Robertson wind up down below where it’s very hot.
Origuy
Sorry if you’ve already seen this. Last year, I posted a request for donations for my friend Susan, who rescued an entire litter of kittens 14 years ago. At the time, her Tabitha needed several teeth removed. Jackals were very generous in helping with the bill. I’m happy to say that Tabitha is doing great. Now it’s her sister Dusty Doolittle who needed dental work. Since they have to sedate cats to do the procedure, the bill is pretty large. I’m coming again to ask you to consider throwing in a few bucks. Here’s some pictures of Dusty and the bill. Dusty is a tuxedo and is very acrobatic, although shy around most people.
Contributions can be sent via PayPal or Zelle to me at jlanam AT comcast DOT net or to my Venmo account at @Jeffery-Lanam. Susan doesn’t do the apps thing. Anything is appreciated.
Origuy
@FelonyGovt: I don’t believe in an afterlife, but I can imagine Pat stopping in to that Heaven on his way to Hell with those people that he’s comfortable with.
SomeRandomGuy
CS Lewis, a noted Christian writer, once wrote an allegory of hell, where people there didn’t realize they were there, and more, that they were, themselves, the people who kept them there. They were so unwilling to believe in that “sky fairy” crap that nothing would get through.
I’m down with Robertson thinking that exact same way, but, in the middle of what everyone else considered “Heaven”, where, without blinders on, most people found joy in all the expressions of love and affection, but where that love and affection looked *so different* that the trapped souls were sure it was, in fact, torture.
Robertson would see some down-town masochist getting a whipping, and spend hours and days terrified of getting tortured the same way, never knowing he was safe, because he wouldn’t say “please” to the Leatherman sadist using the whip.
Sister Golden Bear
It’s been making the round of queer social media and it’s beautiful.
On a related note, here’s a great essay on the importance of Pride especially given the Christofascist Republican (but I repeat myself) efforts to eradicate LBG-and-especially-T people from public life.
tl;dr
*It’s really more of “We survived.”
hrprogressive
Pat having to see everyone he hated in heaven, and having to explain to Jesus why he hated them, for all eternity, actually sounds a lot more satisfying than him being whipped by demons, or some such.
Bex
Prigozhin turns back according to BBC news. Sorry no link.
Anonymous at Work
What do you think Pat Robertson’s concept of Hell looks like, if not this.
different-church-lady
For Pat Robertson that would be hell.
Origuy
Here’s the BBC story.
ALurkSupreme
Meh. The idea of Pat Robertson burning in hell eternally suits me just fine.
Bex
@Origuy: Thanks for the link.
Anonymous at Work
@Bex: “Nothing is true, everything is possible.” Adam Silverman last night. BBC is saying stuff but can’t tell it goes down below ‘per Russian media reports.”
CliosFanBoy
@hrprogressive:
Sounds pretty mean to Jesus, having to listen to Pat Robertson whine for eternity.
MattF
@Bex: All claims should be treated with skepticism. Assume everyone is lying. No one knows what’s going on.
Calouste
I wonder what Prigozhin got out of the deal. If he got the heads of the minister of defense and chief of staff that he wanted, Putin might find out that those heads don’t agree with the deal. Also, calling someone a traitor in the morning and making a deal with them in the evening doesn’t exactly exude the “strongman in control of everything” image that Putin likes so much.
Baud
@MattF:
Nominated
John S.
@Calouste:
No matter what Prigozhin is up to, this is not 11D chess for Putin. He comes off looking weak. A mercenary army just took over a city and marched within 200 miles of Moscow, unopposed. There’s no way to spin that as “good news for Putin”.
ETA: Not that circumstances will stop folks like David Sacks from trying to spin this.
hueyplong
Putin’s not out of the woods until one of his GOP hirelings starts yapping with confidence on twitter.
RaflW
Maybe the afterlife is just one place. And Pat Robertson has to be a janitor and clean the unisex bathroom at Jesus’s Club Q: The Afterparty for 93 years to atone and learn to genuinely love unconditionally.
(As a universalist, I don’t believe anyone is destined to eternal hell. A period of post-perishing accountability might feel like hell for Pat, but so be it. I also am quite agnostic about any sort of afterlife anyway.)
cain
@hrprogressive: you know that actually happened except in the Mahabharata. After the Pandava war Yudhishthira ended up going to heaven in the flesh rather than by dying.
Dude went to heaven and found out that his hated opponent from the war was also there – he was pretty pissed! Worse, his wife and brothers ended up in hell! Mad enough to cut a MF.
This is a great story here from the Mahabharata –
https://isha.sadhguru.org/us/en/wisdom/article/mahabharat-ep72-heaven-or-hell-yudhishthira-makes-unusual-choice
Martin
@Calouste: Yeah.
I mean, Prigozhin got out of a problem, for one. They weren’t going to get to Moscow. They were going to hit the Oka, and then things get slow, and they become sitting ducks. I don’t think Prigozhin had a viable end game there, so being offered a draw is a relief.
Maybe he gets a seat back at the table having demonstrated that Putin is really in no position to write Wagner off.
Maybe Wagner takes it ask an excuse to return to Rostov to fight Kadyrov and dig in.
Putin called him a traitor to Russia in a public address. I’m not sure Putin can afford to shake hands and say everything is fine.
Maybe all that was bought was not a civil war today, and we’ll see what tomorrow brings when tomorrow comes.
zhena gogolia
@Martin: I’ve been trying to imagine what would happen when they reached Moscow, and none of my imaginings were good.
cain
@John S.: This has been one weird episode and an even weirder ending. I’m not sure what happens from here.
Anoniminous
@Calouste:
If he stays in Russia he’ll probably, Real Soon Now, get a 9x19mm Parabellum bullet to the back of his head. Putin would be a fool to keep him alive after this.
bcw
Belize: And everyone in Balencia gowns with red corsages, and big dance palaces full of music and lights and racial impurity and gender confusion. And all the deities are creole, mulatto, brown as the mouths of rivers. Race, taste and history finally overcome. And you ain’t there.
Roy Cohn: And Heaven?
Belize: That was Heaven, Roy.”
― Tony Kushner, Angels in America
Martin
‘Appropriate decisions’.
So Shoigu is done for. Maybe Gerasimov. Prigozhin will have to eat shit somehow. Sent back to Syria? Can’t exactly roll on Moscow from there.
Baud
@cain:
Direct quote from the original Sanskrit?
Anoniminous
@Baud:
Mango Falooda?
OzarkHillbilly
This is where I see Robertson ending up:
“But then I think, there is no hell. You go to heaven and God says, “No, you can’t come in. You have to be alone now.”
or something like that, Bob Saginowski, The Drop.
NobodySpecial
Yeah, I don’t see this going any other way but badly. Prigozhin can’t be allowed to live after he came after Putin so publicly as to march troops in Russia. Putin can’t be seen giving in publicly to Prigozhin’s demands, because then he loses his top dog perch if his lieutenants and mercenaries can issue dictates. The Russian Army already hates the Wagnerites, and if they’re put in any position of even nominal power over them, they won’t stand for it.
It ain’t one to one, but I am very reminded of Stilcho and Alaric here.
Martin
@Baud: Where do you think the phrase was coined? Oftentimes expressions lose their context over the centuries, but occasionally one is so pure of form that it transcends all cultures.
cain
@Baud: not in so many words ;)
Calouste
Two predictions that are worth what you pay for them:
1) Prigozhin will go back to the front and will soon be killed by a “ Ukrainian” missile strike strangely coming from a northeasterly direction.
2) Putin will no longer be able to leave Moscow, because there will be a palace coup if he does so.
WaterGirl
@Sister Golden Bear: Yeah, “won” was jarring. Survived is much more accurate.
Ken
@OzarkHillbilly: Also done in Between Two Worlds. Sydney Greenstreet informs Isobel Elsom that in the afterlife, she will have a fine beautiful house and all the luxuries she could want. But she will be absolutely alone, and no one will ever visit her.
EDIT: I see IMDB has the quote that explains it: “You see my son, you make a Heaven and a Hell for yourselves on Earth. You only bring it with you here.”
RepubAnon
@FelonyGovt: A heaven embodying Christ’s teachings would indeed be Pat Robertson’s hell. The Hell run by Satan would have “Great Job, Hero” banners up greeting Pat Robertson’s arrival to his homeland.
Omnes Omnibus
@Calouste: Those are not unreasonable predictions.
OzarkHillbilly
@Ken: I’ve never seen that one.
RepubAnon
@Anoniminous: I’m seeing Putin offering a nice cup of tea, followed by an escorted tour of the tallest building in Moscow.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
We’re going to start seeing a lot of out of focus photos of Putin’s body doubles, I suspect. Along with daily reassurances from state media that Putin is healthy, strong, and in charge of everything.
Hmm, maybe some “live” speeches too, that somebody will eventually report were actually recorded months ago.
Russians know how to do this stuff. They invented the “Potemkin village” after all.
bbleh
@hrprogressive: I’ve always been slightly amazed at the inability of many Christianists to see the glaring and fundamental incompatibility of their teeth-gnashing hatred of LGBTQ people with the message of (most of) New Testament Christianity.
And if you offer a reply like “you’re right! It’s like, who would Jesus hate?” you get this moment or two (or more) of blank incomprehension.
You’d think that, spending as much time and energy thinking about it as they do, it might dawn on them, but … nope.
@CliosFanBoy: good point.
sdhays
I’m not sure this is 100% true. Prigozhin has been scathing against the military leadership while sympathetic to the people fighting. The way a lot of this went down seemed to demonstrate that a lot of the Russian military is at best indifferent, if not supportive of Wagner.
bbleh
@John S.: @Calouste: @Martin: I think Prigozhin got exactly what he wanted and never had to face what would have been an unwinnable situation. (My bet was, if Putin never offered an olive-branch, Prigozhin would simply have stopped like 10 miles outside Moscow and started making speeches criticizing Shoigu and Gerasimov and demanding they be brought to justice, blah blah blah, and effectively daring the Russian military to attack them.)
Omnes Omnibus
Normalize admitting “I have absolutely no idea what the fuck is going on”
Martin
@Calouste: I don’t think he’ll be allowed to go back to Ukraine. As badly as Russia might need his forces there, I don’t think Putin will let him remain in driving distance.
So he goes to Syria or Central African Republic – some place his forces are less likely to die. He’s out of country, out of media access. Next year a headline pops up that nobody really notices that Prigozhin died in a helicopter crash, and everyone tried to recall why that name sounds familiar. Wagner gets a new leader.
Russia loses some strength in Ukraine, but that’s better than what was shaping up to happen.
Shoigu and Gerasimov are out, an investigation shows they ordered the ‘attack’ on the Wagner forces. Wagner’s reaction is now justified, as is the outster of those two who can now also be blamed for Russia’s poor showing in Ukraine of late. Putin looks weak so he’ll have to put in the work to shore things up there, but he stays in charge and a threat is removed. Everything in Russia remains as cynical as it can possibly be.
Maxim
@sdhays: I just read a thread that said most of Wagner’s commanders (not the rank and file) are former Russia military who were kicked out for various reasons, and Wagner is their second chance. If that’s accurate, it would make sense that Wagner’s leadership would have a pissing-contest mentality toward the regular military, but how the enlisted men on both sides feel is a separate matter.
Martin
@bbleh: Religion in the US adapts to the political need, not the other way around. It’s a place Americans eagerly go to find answers, and answers are offered in abundance, and received with no resistance.
Nobody is going to take a beat to question if the message is consistent with scripture. That’s the whole fucking point of faith.
Msb
That’s lovely, thanks.
I dream that when hateful people apply for Heaven, God turns up in the form of the people they most hated and feared, and interviews them, asking, “Tell me again; explain to me how you did so-and-so because you love me.”
As to Putin and Prighozin, see how Henry VIII dealt with the Pilgrimage of Grace.
James E Powell
@Maxim:
So they’re like the A Team?
Martin
@Maxim: It’s probably safe to say that workers and management having very different views of the world is universal and applies to the Russian enlisted vs officers just as readily as it does to baristas and Howard Schultz.
EarthWindFire
Things like this are why I come here. Thank you.
Calouste
@bbleh: Prigozhin wouldn’t have gotten within 10 miles of Moscow without a lot of military, police, and national guard (or whatever they call it in Russia) either disobeying orders or explicitly swapping sides.
Martin
@James E Powell: I mean, that’s literally what the A-Team was and was advertised to be – they were just mercenaries for the little guy. When Ron DeSantis sends his goons to shut down your drag queen story hour, just call Hannibal and his crew and they’ll roll up with M-16s and send those goons packing.
Splitting Image
With respect to Robertson, just because the rich man went to hell doesn’t mean he couldn’t see Lazarus sitting comfortably in heaven.
Robertson will spend eternity begging one of the gay men in heaven to moisten part of his body and use it to cool his tongue, as foretold in the Bible. (Luke 16:19-31)
bbleh
@Calouste: ok then 20 or 30 or whatever. Somewhere short of being confronted militarily, which in the end he couldn’t have won.
Jonothan Cullinane
@NobodySpecial: “It ain’t one to one, but I am very reminded of Stilcho and Alaric here.”
Perhaps the greatest comment ever on this great site!
Geminid
@RepubAnon: I once thought of a circle of Hell where the disembodied souls were subjected to loud, non-stop Christian Pop music. After a while, even the “believers” would realize they were in Hell.
pat
So maybe Putin’s chef just cooked his own goose..???
Calouste
@Martin: What’s Putin going to do to prevent Prigozhin from going back to Ukraine? He couldn’t prevent him from driving halfway to Moscow. Anyway, I think we agree that Prigozhin’s life expectancy can be measured in months.
Martin
@Calouste: That was what was happening. The local cops aren’t going to stand in front of a T-80, so they were just waving them through. I think the problem was that 75 miles outside of Moscow the trucks wouldn’t have been able to get though and they’d have to unload the trucks and roll in the slow way. And their surprise action now has time to put sufficient mass in front of it such that the cops don’t immediate lay down arms.
Even trained soldiers don’t do suicide runs unless you’re about to die anyway. When you’re obviously outgunned, you live to fight another day. Had Wagner been able to move faster it might have worked, but they got slowed down enough that defenses were going up. I think the only real loyalty for the cops is ‘which is the winning side given what’s on the board this moment’. and that was swinging in Putins favor with each hour – at least in terms of defending Moscow.
Soonergrunt
A couple years ago, give or take, John McAfee, who started the anti-virus software company, committed suicide in a Spanish jail while awaiting extradition on tax evasion and other charges to the USA. His body has been in a morgue in Spain ever since. Do you wonder, as I often do, if the morgue gets a popup telling them that their McAfee has expired?
rikyrah
Now the Russian coup dude is going
“My bad”
WTF???😲😲🤔🤔
How has he NOT signed his death warrant?
Vlad is not very forgiving.😒😒
Geminid
@Calouste: Or, what’s to prevent Prigozhin from hanging on to the important logistical center of Rostov? Who’s gonna make him leave? A warlord needs a regional power base, and right now Prigozhin has Rostov.
Sister Golden Bear
@bbleh: They really don’t give a shit about the New Testament, except for Revelations.
They really want the Old Testament God who conveniently hates all the people they hate. Because it’s what Blond Blue-eyed Jesus would want.
Baud
@rikyrah:
“I shall assume full responsibility for losing them and apologize to Lord Vader.”
Martin
@Calouste: Yeah, but I think Prigozhin has been measuring it in months for a while now, so that’s probably the best he can ever expect. Buys him a few months to figure out how to extend it a few months more. Maybe his contacts can tip him off and he buys a few months that way. Maybe he finds a way to be useful to Putin alive. Maybe he convinces someone to push Putin out of a window. There are so many potential avenues to explore.
Prigozhin is still funded by Putin because Putin needs Wagner. But maybe Putin doesn’t need Wagner quite so close to Russia, so he puts them on a ship and sends them to Syria. I don’t think Prigozhin can steal enough washing machines in Ukraine to keep his army running – he’s reliant on Putin to supply them.
We don’t really know the politics here. It’s entirely possible that Putin and others have been worried about Wagner for a while and the Bakhmut campaign was intended to weaken both Ukraine and Wagner, and it didn’t weaken Wagner enough, but did piss them off.
Frank Wilhoit
You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him think.
Leto
@Martin: “I PITY THE FOOL THAT TRIES TO GET IN THE WAY OF STORY TIME!”
Percysowner
I was raised UU and I don’t really believe in Hell. It doesn’t mean I don’t like the idea of Robertson reaping what he has sown. I can enjoy some fantasizing. From Stanzi over at YouTube, Pat Robertson and Hell.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/4yUqkMENYGE
JPL
@Soonergrunt: 🤣😂🤣😂🤣
Martin
@Geminid: Kadyrov is on the outskirts of Rostov right now. Entirely possible Wagner doesn’t have the forces to hold it.
But yeah, that’s a possibility. Can’t imagine any of these people can be taken at their word.
JPL
@rikyrah: Rumor is that he agreed to stand down because Putin agreed to get rid of the defense minister. If that is true, then it was Putin who wanted to get rid of Shoigu. This was an esy way but time will tell.
Sister Golden Bear
Finally the MSM is starting to notice. ‘Genocidal’: Transgender people begin to flee states with anti-LGBTQ laws.
Martin
Ok, the rumors are that Prigozhin is exiled to Belarus, the fighters that participated are free to go home no charges, the ones that didn’t participate will return to the army (that presumably many were kicked out of), Shiogu and Gerasimov will resign and be replaced. Sounds like Wagner as it currently is comprised will cease to be (at least Wagner Russia ceases to be). Maybe some new org will be tipped up for the Wagner forces out of the country to get absorbed into – or maybe it’ll still be Wagner but with all the Russian players replaced.
Jay
JPL
@Martin: Works out nicely for Putin.
mrmoshpotato
Cubs win! Cubs win!
Martin
@JPL: Time will tell. Putin looks super weak. A mercenary group drove half the width of Russia shooting down aircraft as they went almost completely unopposed. They lost one truck, and no men. Any general could depose him. The head of the FSB could depose him. I’m sure any of his oligarchs could buy one of his generals to depose him.
Meanwhile, their economy is in the shitter and everyone is waiting to see if the Ukrainian army rolls them like they did in the fall.
That thread he’s hanging by is looking mighty tired.
Jay
@Martin:
Wagner is self supporting.
Even though they are paid by the CAR to do “training”, just from that one impoverished country, they make $2 billion USD a year from control of gold, diamonds and rare timber.
Syria “pays” them with oil and gas field control.
And most of that money stays offshore and isn’t converted into worthless rubles or Zimbabwe dollars.
Citizen Alan
@Sister Golden Bear:
Not true. They’re very fond of the writings of Paul, the convert who never met Jesus during his lifetime but who was very sure that Jesus hated gays and outspoken women.
I don’t know who said it first, but I’ll say it again …
Benw
That is a lovely poem. It really elucidates Jesus’ message of love for ALL.
Uncle Cosmo
@Frank Wilhoit: IIRC the original was courtesy of Dorothy Parker:
Martin
Ok, so Prigozhin going to Belarus has been confirmed by a Kremlin spokesperson. I think the Wagner amnest/re-integration to the military has been as well. Nothing about leadership changes that I see, but that was rumored to be a Duma ‘decision’ so not surprising it’s not announced here.
Martin
@Jay: Overseas Wagner is. But not in Ukraine.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@Martin: So I guess, one, meet the new boss, same as the old boss, and two, Prigozhin’s probably due to find out what happens when you come at the king (well, tsar, or president if you’re being pedantic) and miss.
On the other hand, it took Napoleon and Hitler several months each to get a hostile army to Moscow; Prigozhin damn near managed it in, what, 24 hours?
Alison Rose
@Sister Golden Bear:
How about protecting them from getting shot at school, Bob? And I just love the chutzpah required to insist “we are doing the right thing” when practically every medical association says otherwise.
JPL
@Martin: I hope you’re correct that he is weakened because now he can blame Russia’s weakness in Ukraine on the defense minister.
john (not mccain)
Given the openess of the thread, and because good news, poltical and otherwise:
SOCIALIZED MEDICINE SAVED MY LIFE TODAY!
and also many other days since late in 2020.
Also, about 20 years ago, I worked on a municipal bond deal that kept the hospital that saved me from being privatized.
THANK SCIENCE FOR GOVERMENT-PROVIDED HEALTHCARE!
OzarkHillbilly
@Soonergrunt: Ouch. Bad Soonergrunt, bad!
KrackenJack
OT: Trying to get this in before the thread expires. Jay, Maxim and I had a little spice cake side bar in one of the Titan(-ic) threads and I promised a recipe (or apparently it didn’t happen).
<a href=”#comment-8879768″>@Maxim</a>:
This came from an inflight magazine c. 1990.
Old Fashioned Applesauce Cake
Notes: Traditionally, I’ve made the applesauce from scratch so I could keep it chunky and not-so-sweet, but it will work fine with store bought. Taste the premade stuff and back off on the recipe sugar if it seems very sweet. The couple of times I’ve made it that way, I haven’t made any adjustments.
Elizabelle
This was interesting. Young adult graphic novel is “Flamer;” author Mike Curato is working on a new graphic novel for adults, “Gaysians.” Curato writes children’s books about Little Elliott, a small polka dotted elephant. Happy to say that his books are freely available in our county libraries. (All copies of Flamer are checked out, at the moment.)
WRIC TV link. (freebie).
His LGBTQ teen book is one of the most banned in the U.S. Here’s why he keeps writing
Martin
Kremlin spox saying leadership changes were never discussed. I’m getting the sense that Lord Putin has altered the deal. I wonder if Prigozhin even agreed to exile in Belarus.
Elizabelle
@KrackenJack: Thank you for that.
Our family recipe collection includes “Uncle Joe’s Applesauce Cake;” will check yours against that one. (And I am not aware of any Uncle Joe, so who knows whose recipe it originally was …)
bbleh
@Sister Golden Bear: @Citizen Alan: yeah that’s what I meant by “(most of)”
JPL
@Martin: Interesting
Tomorrow we might wake up to news about a lot of dead Wagner people.
OzarkHillbilly
@KrackenJack: Copy and pasted. Thanx.
Jeffro
I’m loving how, during a time of extreme international crisis and danger, with quite a bit on the line not just for the U.S. but the world…the GQP and all its various psychos in the House, Fox News, etc have chosen to…bash Joe Biden and/or insinuate that a) these kinds of things didn’t happen under trumpov, and b) there’s a good chance Joe orchestrated all of this to distract from Hunter’s legal issues.
FUCK
THESE
PEOPLE
I would literally rather have a rabid weasel in my foxhole when the shit goes down than any of these clowns, hands-down.
Geminid
@Martin: The Wagner Group can get squeezed out of Syria. Assad needed Wagner to survive during the last decade, but he may not need them much longer. The same can happen in the African countries where Wagner operates. So Progozhin may not be inclined to look for a power base outside Russia. He’s got one now in southeastern Russia if he can hang on to it.
eclare
That was beautiful and full of grace. Grace that I should have but don’t.
jonas
@Bex: Yeah, I think his mouth was clearly writing checks his ass couldn’t cash and when he saw Putin was not going to be intimidated and can Shoigu, he knew he had fucked up bad.
He’s apparently “made a deal” to go live in Belarus and stay quiet. Right. He’s a dead man walking and probably knows it. Just a matter of betting on how it ends, now. High window? Polonium tea
ETA: I see now some sources are reporting that Shoigu will step down as part of a deal with Prigozhin. We’ll see.
Kathleen
@Soonergrunt: That is hilarious!!!
MattF
Here’s Stephen Kotkin on current events in Russia. Kotkin is a preeminent scholar on Russia— he’s written and published two volumes out of a projected three volume Stalin biography. Everyone is awaiting publication of the third volume, anticipated next year.
bbleh
@Martin: my impression was that all this got started not long after a little birdie told Prigozhin not to stand near any windows, so as noted upthread, he probably figured he didn’t have anything to lose. If so, then I’d guess he’d agree nominally to any terms (short of imprisonment or something like that), fully expecting Putin to try to follow through (especially now he’s been exposed as not fully in control), and he’d have at least a sketch of an endgame, like a fake passport and an identity already established in Argentina or something.
Still kinda baffles me why Putin went on TV the way he did, but wadda I know.
Jay
@Martin:
one of the subtexts on Telegram was that the LPR and DPR had already looted everything of value out of Occupied Ukraine. That Solidar was something Wagner could grab, ( salt)
I would not be the least bit surprised that a bunch of the Grain Thieves are Wagner number companies registered abroad.
Geminid
@Martin: Oh no, the Chechens! Hide your goats! This could draw PETA into the conflict.
More seriously, Kadryov likely won’t commit resources into suppressing Prigozhin’s mutiny because he has his own fiefdom to protect. A likely resolution would be for Kadryov and Prigozhin to grant each other “Freinemy” status.
Jeffro
I know, right?
What’s the point of even having a hell, if Pat Robertson’s not burning in it??
Jeffro
And all for nickels on the dollar – way to go, President Biden!
Manyakitty
@Soonergrunt: d’oh! That guy was BONKERS. I followed his blog for a while when he was on the run, then saw a documentary about him after he died. Whew.
Jay
https://twitter.com/NAFOMemesCenter/status/1672696797356261378/photo/2
Manyakitty
@KrackenJack: looks amazing, thank you!
Another Scott
Galeev’s latest giant thread, (before the news that Prigo said he was calling it off). Probably still worth thinking about.
Cheers,
Scott.
lowtechcyclist
@Citizen Alan:
How is Catholicism not also the victory of Paul? They’ve got no place for women anywhere in their ecclesiastical structure – hell, no place even for men who live with women. Compared even to evangelicalism, Catholic women have no power.
I mean, right now, the Southern Baptists are kicking out churches with women ministers, but that at least tells you that there are women who lead evangelical churches, just not Southern Baptist churches anymore.
Few and far between, perhaps, but few beats absolute zero.
kalakal
@FelonyGovt:
Milton had people like Robertson sussed centuries ago
“The mind is its own place and, in itself can make a heaven of hell or a hell of heaven”
Kayla Rudbek
bbleh
@Jeffro: good point! Dark Brandon strikes again, this time when you least expected it!
Uncle Cosmo
@kalakal: Funny thing, for many decades up until just now I thought that line immediately followed
spoken by Mephistopheles in Marlowe’s Doctor Faustus. OTOH –
does kindasorta make sense, dunnit? :^D
SomeRandomGuy
@lowtechcyclist: Peter was the first pope. Paul wasn’t.
James E Powell
@SomeRandomGuy:
My favorite internecine conflicts are Christian internecine conflicts.
Another Scott
Meanwhile, …
(via Oryx)
Cheers,
Scott.
Odie Hugh Manatee
@Soonergrunt:
Yo SG, good to ‘see’ ya!
You forgot the rim shot after your line… Also. Too. ;)
Ruckus
Personally I don’t think that we can tell in any way what is going to happen in Russia. vlad depends upon fear to run the place and that seems like it’s not working all that way any longer. Sure Prigozhin may not have a lot of power in the normal way but he has a lot of power of guns and people who likely don’t hate him as much as vlad. Russia is a far different country than this one and works many on fear. Prigozhin doesn’t seem to have the necessary level of fear of vlad. He’s got a better army, and in this situation that alone may be enough. vlad has been, by his very nature, losing power and the only thing holding him in position now is that fear that seems to be at best superficial. He stepped on his junk in golf spikes with this war concept of late and one of the people he depended upon is somewhat unhappy about it. That usually makes for a poor future for the asshole in charge who had to run away. I could be full of it though.
Scuffletuffle
@Origuy: In for 25, good luck Dusty
KrackenJack
@Elizabelle: I’ll be interested to see the comparison. Most of my recipes are variations or combinations. This one worked fine as is, so I haven’t even looked at another. I imported the plumped raisins into all of my other recipes.
@OzarkHillbilly: Hope you enjoy it.
@Manyakitty: You are very welcome.
@Kayla Rudbek: It should be pretty robust to substitutions.
Elizabelle
@KrackenJack: I will let you know. Would trust your recipe, because I don’t recall my family ever making the “Uncle Joe” version.
kalakal
@Uncle Cosmo:
Heh! It fits perfectly with the context
Origuy
@Scuffletuffle: Everything helps, thanks.
eclare
@Scuffletuffle:
Same!
Vet care is so expensive.
Skepticat
@Origuy: The costs for a vet specializing in dental work surprised (and impoverished) me. I just spent a month’s income on one cat’s dental surgery, and there are two cats in the queue. It turns out I need extremely expensive dental work too, but the fab felines get first dibs. I can’t help right now, but I send best wishes to the cats and to generous jackals who can.
lowtechcyclist
@SomeRandomGuy:
And??
Whatever Peter stood for that Paul didn’t, it strikes me as a rather symbolic victory, and nothing more.
Jay
@Kayla Rudbek:
Flax seed flour, (wet) or scalded milk can replace eggs.
Kristine
@KrackenJack: Thanks!
SomeRandomGuy
@lowtechcyclist: You asked the question; don’t blame me that you don’t like the answer.
But I’ll bite: please, tell us all how we can be absolutely certain that women would be more nearly equal to men, if only Peter had been victorious over Paul.
Another Scott
@Origuy: Thanks for helping the fuzzy beast out.
Donated.
Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.