Scene: sixth grade classroom, student in front of the class giving a book report
Tommy, a student, seemingly reading from a sheaf of notebook paper: So then, um, they took a slingshot and killed the mockingbird with a rock. The end.
Teacher: Tommy! That’s not what happened in the book! You told me you read To Kill a Mockingbird and were ready to give your report! Isn’t that the book report right there in your hand?
Tommy, displaying notebook paper covered with crudely drawn dicks: No book report. I had no book report. That was bravado, if you want to know the truth.
THE END
Alexandra Petri, master satirist at WaPo, had a field day with Trump’s real-time crime narration. Check out the industrial-strength mockery she applied to it from a product-placement angle here.
Open thread!
PS: Here’s a gift link to a NYT article that follows up on four humans Ron DeSantis illegally trafficked to Martha’s Vineyard. Most of the group the governor’s minions lured onto planes with lies and then dumped scattered to other parts of the country, but four stayed on the island.
Baud
The Emperor Has No Documents.
E.
I feel like we are at the beginning of the “then all at once” part.
Kay
I think he’s scared of going to prison. He’s panicky in a way he never was before. It’s probably hard for him to believe – 50 years of coddling for his lawbreaking in NYC and someone is finally prosecuting? His whole world must be tilting.
Jeffro
LOL
Jeffro
@Kay: I wonder what the over/under is on him cracking and offering to tell DOJ absolutely everything vs him fleeing the country in order to avoid prison time.
It’s lazy but I’m right at 50/50 on this.
cope
Gee, after reading the NYT piece, I hope those four don’t turn into DeSantis supporters as a result of him being responsible for them having the opportunities and experiences they were looking for.
Frankensteinbeck
@Jeffro:
I’m not sure there’s much left to tell. The man keeps confessing.
Brachiator
Trump’s back is against the wall and he is in full survival mode. He will lie or say anything to push back and defend his positions. Anything except admit fault.
He claims bravado made him do it because he feels in his bones that his base will eagerly lap up this lie.
Trump also recently announced that he is countersuing E Jean Carroll for defamation.
None of this is likely to work in court, unless Trump can get the dumbest jurors in the universe to sit for any case.
But Trump will thrash out with his feeble lies and denials until the end. It’s all he’s got, and it ain’t much at all.
dmsilev
In fairness, they are very good chips.
Cameron
In case anybody outside Florida wants to know what treats the state gummint is serving up to us lucky duckies this weekend, here’s a list:
https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/list-new-florida-laws-to-take-effect-july-1/
Kay
@Jeffro:
I think all the white collar criminals are terrified of prison – it’s the ony threat that really reaches them, which is why we should prosecute more of them.
Imagine neat freak Trump without his chilled Diet Cokes and beauty aids. His hairdo disintegrates in the first week. Just like a mass of smelly gloop on top of his head.
trollhattan
Lord, that’s a hoot.
Cameron
@Baud: A cruel jape from the Candidate with No Pants?
trollhattan
@Kay: Rudy can share styling tips that work for the Big House. He was, after all, a prosecutor. Or so he says.
different-church-lady
It’s kinda weird how so many of Trump’s defenses against self-incriminating statements amount to, “I was just bullshitting!” Yet we’re not supposed to take from that he’s a bullshitter.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Every time I see that quote about how he didn’t have documents, he just had papers, I have to translate it into normal human speak. Apparently for Trump, a “document” is something other than a “paper.”
different-church-lady
If you dumped me blindly on Martha’s Vineyard, I’d probably stay too
Baud
@different-church-lady:
This is a full service blog. Just say the word.
rikyrah
@Jeffro:
who would take him? What country?
Cameron
@Dorothy A. Winsor: He doesn’t know “document.” All he knows is “docMEment.”
different-church-lady
@Brachiator:
That improves his chances slightly.
Brachiator
@Kay:
The thing that Trump is most afraid of is being publicly branded as a loser. That would be ego death.
As a former president, he believes that it is unlikely that he would ever go to prison, even if he is convicted of every offense for which he might reasonably be indicted.
Trump is sustained by his need to always be perceived as powerful and successful. It’s all he ever was.
different-church-lady
@Baud: WORD!!!
Cameron
Legend has it that if a swinish oaf makes up a new excuse every day, at midnight on the Fourth of July he turns into George Santos.
MattF
@rikyrah: He could buy Greenland and camp out there.
dmsilev
As I mentioned in the previous thread, “Bravado” is awfully reminiscent of “locker-room talk”, the excuse he and his handlers came up with to explain away the infamous Access Hollywood tape. Difference is, then he just had to bull his way through media coverage and wait for But Her Emails to resurge, now he’s got the whole “trial” thing to look forward to…
dmsilev
@different-church-lady: Judge Cannon isn’t stupid. She knows what she’s doing.
Which makes it worse.
Baud
@different-church-lady:
Consider yourself kidnapped.
MattF
@Brachiator: He needs to be the winner. Star and director of a new reality show, ‘Stable Genius’.
Cameron
This promises to have some entertainment value: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/breitbart-trump-desantis-influencer-texts/
M31
Bravado, it’s what plants crave!
Brachiator
@dmsilev:
The weird thing is that the locker room excuse was offered by Trump’s handlers and quickly and widely echoed by his supporters.
But in his deposition in the E Jean Carroll case, Trump admitted that he believed that powerful and famous men have always been able to grab women by the ____ , and that he was a famous and powerful man. He never said that his words were just an empty boast.
But Trump is sly and slick. He will use the claim of bravado now because it helps him and he knows his supporters will eat it up.
Tony Jay
Of course Trump is terrified of prison. The only people there who’ll have his back are the Aryans, and Alpha Wolf expects to get paid for protection in real, actual money with real, actual presidents on it. Bullshit and bravado don’t buy you a thing except a shank in the shower.
Okay, he’d only ever be sent to an ultra-low security prison with all the luxuries his supporters’ money can buy, but he’s also an idiot who hears ‘prison’ and thinks of gothic hellholes where Van Damme gets forced to fight huge hairy inmates by the sadistic Governor.
Betty Cracker
I ordered a lightweight bedspread from Amazon, and it arrived today in a package that seemed too small to enclose a king-size bedspread and two pillow shams, even lightweight ones, even vacuum-packed. I mean, it was like half the size of a shoebox!
So I removed the outer packaging and carefully punctured the shrink wrapping, and WHOOSH — it busted out of that plastic like Dr. Bruce Banner shredding an Oxford button-down and suit trousers! It was king-sized alright!
Jeebus, there should be a warning label on those things. It scared the crap outta me and both dogs!
MattF
@dmsilev: I still haven’t quite figured out how “I was lying” makes everything OK.
sdhays
Apparently this is pretty much what Newsmax is going with – “We all know how Trump is…” => “We all know that much of what spews from his cat’s anus-like mouth hole is bullshit and lies…”.
So, the follow up is: “…Ok. But, let’s just say for the sake of argument that he was somehow managing to not lie in this instance. That would mean he should go to jail, right? Right?”
Ken
If that means his sentence will be shoveling manure for twelve hours a day while the cameras watch, I could get behind that. It would be kind of fitting, given the amount of bullshit he’s been producing.
Brachiator
@MattF:
It is a subtle distinction, but some people love to win. Other people hate to lose.
Trump is desperately afraid of looking like and being a loser, so he lies about winning.
sdhays
@rikyrah: Russia’s recruiting.
ETA: I don’t believe Trump will make a run for it, if for no other reason than he won’t accept the reality of it until it’s too late to run.
Jeffro
@rikyrah: off the top of my head, I’d think Russia or Saudi Arabia would
@MattF: ha!
My sincere hope is that it’s the former (that he spills the beans on all of it – the work for Russia, the tax fraud, the blackmail). I kinda just want to see the look on MAGA nation’s collective dumb faces.
(ok more than ‘kinda’)
Dangerman
To tell the truth, it was Brawny. He had this thing with paper towels.
Kay
@trollhattan:
No girdle, no lifts in his shoes, no big boxy suits to hide his girth, no hair or skin products…
He’ll just be a sloppy old man shuffling along in plastic sandals.
Uncle Cosmo
“Bravado?” Bullshit. Try braggadocio – with the associated strong whiff of the braggadociast knowing he’s blowing it out his butt, which negates any defense involving “diminished mental capacity.”
Cameron
I’m sorry, but somebody had to have taught him that word. If you had asked him about ‘bravado’ two weeks ago, he’d tell you he wouldn’t dream of putting that funny Mexican stuff on his hamberder.
Calouste
@rikyrah: Besides Russia you mean?
JoyceH
What I find astonishing is that Trump is so stupid, he appears to think that the audio is the only evidence Smith has. Does he genuinely not remember that there were other people there with him? Can he not comprehend that those other people will be/have been subpoenaed, to testify to the truth under penalty of perjury? That they will SAY what Trump had in his hand and showed to them?
Brachiator
@Tony Jay:
Trump would never go to any conventional prison. Also, the steps to ensure his protection in any type of confinement would be extraordinary. And as a former president, he would be entitled to Secret Service protection.
This scenario would make a hell of a movie. Secret Service Supermax, starring the Rock, Jason Statham, Jason Momoa and Henry Cavill as agents assigned to guard a disgraced and imprisoned president who has a contract on his life by enemies he had put away.
Yutsano
@Calouste: Why would they take him in? He’s much more useful creating chaos in the US. The Saudis however would welcome him. And I’m calling a sleeper country into the mix: Israel.
JoyceH
@Brachiator: He’ll have a wing of his own, guarantee it.
sdhays
@Brachiator: The studios have ChatGPT working on a script right now.
Frankensteinbeck
@Brachiator:
He’s just saying shit. Any child could make up that same excuse. His supporters will eat it up because IOKIYAR. They will run with any excuse they’re given to claim that Republicans are always right and Democrats are always wrong.
If he were sly and slick, he wouldn’t keep making up different excuses, many of which will count as confessions when they’re brought up in court.
Ken
In act two, this turns into a comedy when it’s found that all four of them are hit men, but only one can fulfill their contract and collect.
@JoyceH: He may have a prison of his own. Some have suggested Alcatraz, but that would prevent tours. There’s probably some remote decommissioned lighthouse that could be repurposed.
eclare
Wow. I have no idea what that word salad means.
https://youtu.be/a0x6vIAtFcI
Brachiator
@JoyceH:
Trump is just that stupid.
And he is furiously improvising in reaction to each new revelation. And he doesn’t appear to confer with his attorneys, or pay attention to them. He has to play to the public.
Delk
Johnny Bravado
Geminid
@Yutsano: Israel has too many problems already, and Trump probably wouldn’t like it there anyway.
He might like the United Arab Emirates. They host a lot of wealthy expats. The UAE are awful close to Iran, though. Trump is on the Revolutionary Guard Corps’ shit list for assassinating the revered General Soleimani, and they won’t forget that.
...now I try to be amused
@MattF:
Good point. Merely not losing is not good enough for him. It’s why he never cuts his losses and always doubles down. Right now he knows he can’t win in a court of law so he’s pleading his case in the court of public opinion and working his get-out-of-jail-free card of being a presidential candidate for all it’s worth, even if it risks further criminal exposure.
Brachiator
@Frankensteinbeck:
I didn’t say that Trump was smart. Trump is desperately trying to evade responsibility even though it is not working, because it is what he does.
But here is where his tired shit DOES work. Fox News and the GOP leadership will echo Trump’s nonsense. And, as everyone knows, his supporters will eat this stuff up.
It doesn’t seem to matter to Trump whether any of this will help him in court, with an honest judge and an honest jury.
Tony Jay
@JoyceH:
The Not The Best Wing
WaterGirl
@Baud: I suppose I need to put up a
blogBLEG now for a BJ relay to get her to Martha’s vineyard.CaseyL
@Frankensteinbeck:
Oh, lordy: will he testify at that trial? My guess is his attorneys will fight tooth and nail to keep him off the stand. And, if they can’t, then it will be a non-stop litany of him declining to answer under the 5th Amendment.
That’s what he’s done in the past, isn’t it? When he’s had to testify? Just takes the 5th over and over?
Otherwise, the jury will be treated to a litany of Trump yelling “Fake News! I didn’t say that!” when his own words are recited, or replayed, back to him.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: That sounds crazy.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Was it this one? It says climate friendly packaging.
rikyrah
@Ken:
Send him to Gitmo
Tony Jay
@Brachiator:
Aryan Brotherhood leader Alpha Wolf is a highly decorated Secret Service agent on extended sabbatical while he serves 20 years for three counts of murder, two of extortion and a little bit of wire fraud*. I imagine him being played by Liv Schreiber.
* They have a hell of a Union.
Ken B
@Yutsano: Another country that might be willing to take him might be North Korea.
Can you imagine the propaganda value of having an ex-president choosing to finish his days in Kim’s little paradise?
They could even let him keep fundraising to finance his triumphant return for a modest fee. Maybe 60%
Calouste
@Ken: Attu Island https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attu_Island sounds like an ideal location to me.
Steeplejack
@WaterGirl:
“Put up a bleg.” Damn autocorrect.
Redshift
@JoyceH:
Exactly. The papers vs. documents thing is him saying “I just said I had classified documents, but what I actually showed them was just some of my papers.”
But beyond that, he doesn’t seem to grasp that the reason this conversation was introduced as evidence is because it shows, contrary to all his (and his lawyers’) defenses of him keeping the documents, that:
WaterGirl
@eclare: What was that scene from?
WaterGirl
@Steeplejack: Yeah, I just saw that when I got down to my comment, and then fixed it. You are correct, sir!
SiubhanDuinne
@Betty Cracker:
Reminds me of that old Dick Van Dyke Show episode where Laura opens a package addressed to Rob and it turns out to be an inflatable boat and expands to the size of the entire living room.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
It could be an On The Road project.
Redshift
@Brachiator:
As Teri Kanefeld is fond of pointing out, he behaves like this because his political goals are in conflict with his legal goals. He could have gotten out of legal trouble (at least for this) many times by just giving in, but politically it was more important to be seen as fighting and to paint himself as a victim.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: Similar but I always get striped bedding so I can tell which way it fits on the bed because otherwise I’ll put it on the wrong way 100% of the time! Other people might put it on wrong and have to start over half the time or even 75% of the time if they’re unlucky. But not me, nope, I defy the laws of probability somehow in this one activity 100% of the time, so striped bedding it is! ;-
@SiubhanDuinne: Haha, yep, kind of alarming!
NotMax
@dmsilev
Hard to top Soupy.
:)
SiubhanDuinne
@Brachiator:
Movie schmovie. Big blockbuster Broadway musical or go home.
Steeplejack
@WaterGirl:
Pulp Fiction.
Frankensteinbeck
@Redshift:
I contest this. He behaves like this because he’s an entitled, childish prick who wants the whole world to know how important he is and that he gets to own president things because he was president and they’re HIS. If he was doing this for political gain, he would be a whole lot more consistent in his excuses and they would be less damning. This isn’t a plan. This is a dumbass flailing.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
That’s a genius “one weird trick”!
Redshift
@…now I try to be amused:
Except that’s not true either; it’s another one of the lies he tells about himself. He’s settled plenty of legal cases in the past, despite his claims that he never does.
It’s possible his overriding motivation right now is to become president again to erase the unacceptable fact of having lost, but he is capable of losing if it’s in a way that doesn’t define him.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: That’s me, only with sense of direction.
I wouldn’t say my instinct on which way to turn in an unfamiliar place is 100% wrong, but you will seldom regret doing the opposite of what I think.
*My instincts are still dead wrong when it comes to direction, but GPS helps.
M31
@SiubhanDuinne: funniest thing I ever read was an account, years ago on an air-cooled VW listserve, of a guy whose girlfriend reached into the back seat of their beetle to grab something out of a backpack and accidentally set off their inflatable raft.
They were fine, but they pulled over as the thing went bonkers, pushing out the rear and then the front windows
A cop who saw the whole thing came over and as soon as he saw they were OK, couldn’t stop laughing hahahahahaha must have been amazing to see
moops
Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that the specific document being waved around in NJ in this recorded meeting is STILL MISSING?
SiubhanDuinne
@M31:
LOL. Probably before cop-cams were widely used. Pity; that would have gone viral af if it were on film.
Frankensteinbeck
@moops:
It’s been brought up. There has been speculation about whether this will give the FBI a warrant-worthy excuse to search the place, and a little speculation about whether he sold it or something. There’s just not much else to say.
rikyrah
@moops:
Jack Smith isn’t.
And, also, those that they know were copied.
Amir Khalid
@Brachiator:
Would he really? Even a minimum-security federal prison would still have plenty of guards, and it seems redundant to provide TFG with a full Secret Service detail on top of that. I expect the Secret Service would cut down his detail; he wouldn’t need as much protecting in prison, and the SS would want to avoid getting in the way of the prison’s own guards.
TriassicSands
This “smoking gun” is and always has been “reasonable doubt” (but only on this specific issue.) Two things are more or less equally believable (both of which should, but won’t, tell votes that Trump must never be elected again). First, Trump is a reckless, dangerous idiot who would take and keep secret documents and show them to unauthorized people. Second, Trump is a lying clown who would pretend to have secret documents in order to impress people with what a super important guy he is and as proof he was right and someone else was wrong.
A few days ago, I told my sister that if they had video of Trump with documents that could be identified as classified materials, then, yes, this might be “smoking gun.” But audio only, even with the testimony of people who were there, can be turned into mere “bravado” by a smart, probably corrupt, lawyer.
To me, the audio is overwhelmingly compelling evidence of Trump’s utter depravity and the danger he poses. But, I’m not going to be on the jury, and the “average” juror, and certainly anyone who supports Trump will dismiss all this a “bravado,” which is something they love about him. To them, “telling it like it his” simply means saying anything that sticks to the libs and socialists.
lowtechcyclist
@Ken:
Or just build him a separate house on the grounds of a Federal prison. There are lots of possible solutions to the ex-Presidential incarceration problem.
The main thing is, confine him in a place that isn’t his and that he has no control over, with access (physical, phone, internet) to the outside world that’s no different from what any other Federal prisoner gets.
Wapiti
@Ken: Give him some space in Guantanamo
eta: the location keeps (most) of his supporters away; if he dies there it won’t be a shrine; easy enough to find or build space on base for the Secret Service detachment.
Omnes Omnibus
@CaseyL: A defendant has an absolute right to testify if they choose to. If you do choose to testify, you waive your Fifth Amendment rights as to any subject on which you testified. You can’t just get up on the stand and say what you want and then refuse to answer any questions.
The Moar You Know
@Ken: there is precedent, although not strictly American precedent: Spandau.
TriassicSands
@Omnes Omnibus:
Of course, you are correct, but when we’re talking about Trump, we know that he will get on the stand and do whatever he wants. Or at least try to. Ordinarily, that might not go well for him, but with Loose Cannon as the judge, who knows.
Cannon may think that, if she plays her cards right and Trump wins next year, she could be in line for a seat on an appellate court. On the other hand, I can’t pretend to know what really goes through the mind of someone like Cannon. Her lack of experience and hyper-partisanship muddies the waters.
As with anything involving Trump, expect a circus with Trump as the center-ring clown.
CaseyL
@Omnes Omnibus:
There is not enough popcorn in the entire known universe, if that waste of protoplasm decides to testify.
Jeffro
While we are all interested in seeing trump spin out like this, it should be equally interesting to watch ol’ Rhonda as he swirls down the drain for the rest of the year:
Hard to believe, but it’s true: a majority of the GOP really is determined to run with the three-time losing, twice-impeached, mango menace in 2024
What do you think, Repubs? Maybe run Casey instead??
Keep thinking that “strength with the GOP base” means much in the general, snooze media!
eclare
@WaterGirl:
Pulp Fiction. I know it has been soiled by the Weinsteins. A great movie. Three hours goes by like that.
It also played with time. Once you watch it I will tell you what was the actual last scene in the movie!
Seanly
There’s an old, old SNL skit for the 18 minutes of missing Watergate tapes where Nixon & the gang are deliberatingly saying incriminating things into the tape recorder while holding back laughs. I couldn’t find it on YouTube but I know it had Akroyd & Buck Henry. Same energy…
Jeffro
Hey! Hey! Hey “trump-weary Republicans”!! All y’all have to do is GET OFF YOUR ASSES and work for it! Barring that, you could – get this – GET LOUD ABOUT SUPPORTING THE DEMOCRAT IN THE RACE. You have options! You have agency! You don’t have to be tarred with trump-stink forever…but you will, unless you actually do. something.
Omnes Omnibus
@TriassicSands: You could have stopped at your second comma. The rest is just doom speculation.
karen marie
@Jeffro: Never going to happen. Trump believes that his lies are not lies because they came out of his mouth and he is beyond criticism.
It’s been widely attributed to Karl Rove but he denies he said it and Ron Suskind refuses to confirm or deny whether it was Rove or an aide.
Regardless of who said it, it’s a principle that Republicans have lived by for the last 50 years. Why would Trump reject such a useful concept?
Roger Moore
@MattF:
It doesn’t make everything OK, but it’s better than the statement being true. Those statements are just incredibly incriminating. He says he has top secret documents that he never declassified and then shows them off despite admitting he’s not supposed to. That’s the whole documents part of the case wrapped up in a bow for the prosecution. The only way he can avoid jail time is by getting the statement excluded or convincing the jury he was lying about having classified documents. The first one might work in criminal court, but it won’t work in the court of public opinion, so he’s going all in on claiming his statements at the time were just bragging.
hueyplong
@The Moar You Know: As long as we’re fantasizing about multiple-count convictions of several national security crimes, it seems like we could kill several birds with one stone by making Trump the sole “guest” at Gitmo, Spandau-style.
A review would determine whether existing Gitmo prisoners are transferred or released.
Might be fun to see the reaction of Trump’s Cuban emigree supporters to that one.
Cameron
@Jeffro: Strength Through Joy!
UncleEbeneezer
Jeffro
@karen marie: never say never! trump has said many times he “never settles”…but he does. He does.
And him trying to deny reality won’t deny the reality of multiple guilty verdicts and prison sentences. He can say what he wants to his cult, but he’s not a magician…he can sway them, but he can’t make the charges, the evidence, the eventual trials and convictions go away.
realbtl
I’d be ok with TFG being confined to Mar whatever as long as it was year round. You know that cheap sob has been skimping on maintenence. Welcome to Florida summer Don.
rikyrah
A video from 1968 about Blacks at Martha’s Vineyard
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8ejU9p2/
Tom Levenson
@Ken: How about Thatcher Island? Joseph “The Animal” Barboza spent some time in Witness Protection on what is little more than a rock with twin lighthouses.
(ETA: This can’t be allowed to happen. This is a truly beautiful spot on MA’s north shore, right around where I plan to retire, and I can’t have it be sullied by Orange Man. Though I’m sure he’d loathe being confined in a socialist hellscape like our Commonwealth, which would be a minor bonus.)
Dorothy A. Winsor
@realbtl: I’m OK with him being confined in Trump Tower as long as he’s held with the same restrictions he’d face in prison. I’m not sure what those would be. Obviously can’t leave. Visiting hours? Restricted contacts? No servants?
laura
Gee, I hope that he’s in a constant pants shitting rage/panic all day every day as the walls are closing in and everyone who played a role in his various business-like grifts and his administration-like grifts are either witnesses or codefendants or tattle tales. I am reminded of Fran Leibowitz definitive statement on trump’s stupidity- that both matter how stupid one might believe him to be, he’s actually much stupider. I’ll take her word for as it’s based upon decades of close observation. And today’s latest confirming his sex pestery and ‘bravado’ just makes my jibbet fill with bile. And yet, that he may not only get his rancid party’s nomination, and possibly win the election- and he knows it. That is my personal nightmare fuel.
steve g
Not that there’s anything wrong with that.When you’re a star, they let you do it.Burnspbesq
@Ken:
How about a decommissioned former Level1 facility, a million miles from nowhere, where it’s well over 100 degrees for most of the year? Yeah, Boron, CA sounds like the place for Trump.
Brachiator
@Amir Khalid:
RE: And as a former president, he would be entitled to Secret Service protection.
We have never had this situation before, where a former president is convicted of a crime and sent to prison.
Trump would be setting a precedent.
But Trump could potentially be in danger even in a minimum security prison.
Ironcity
@Calouste: The Aleutians were famous in WW II for people being brought back to civilization with a thousand mile Aleutian Stare. TFG is not mentally tough enough to stand it there. And getting there is not half the fun because the it is almost impossible to get in by air so the only way is by boat to a modest landing on an island with no real harbor in some of the worst weather anywhere. On second thought sounds appropriate. With all his co-conspirators for company.
Burnspbesq
Juries tend to have highly sensitive bullshit detectors. They’ll get to observe his demeanor if he testifies, and it won’t help him even a tiny bit.
Scout211
This is getting ridiculous. Trump believes (like his “locker room talk” excuse in 2016), that if he just claims he was bragging and lying to all those giggling females in the room, then he will be exonerated from the whole “witch hunty’ mess that he got himself into.
But E. Jean Carroll said he raped her so he is suing her for millions. Because those words would defame him.
Apparently, Donald J. Trump is the only person allowed to defame Donald J. Trump. And he’s done quite a good job of defaming his own character. I am very impressed.
Idiot.
I wonder how his attorneys sleep at night . . .
Ken
@Tom Levenson: A couple weeks ago I suggested either Howland or Baker Island, chiefly because they are in the UTC-12:00 time zone, the only one in which no humans live. However both are wildlife refuges, and I wouldn’t want to disturb the seabirds.
Baud
Reupping my suggestion for the Klingon penal colony of Rura Penthe.
TriassicSands
@Omnes Omnibus:
Well, heaven forbid, that there would ever be any speculation on B-J. Nothing but hard facts here.
And it is hardly “doom” speculation, but simply commentary on the already obvious incompetence of Judge Cannon. Am I allowed to say that, or do I have to run it through you for approval first?
JPL
@sdhays: Be prepared for why won’t they give me a deal. They gave Hunter Biden a deal.
Brachiator
@TriassicSands:
I don’t think that Trump would ever get on the stand and testify. He didn’t testify at the sexual assault civil trial. Trump will talk crap in public and at rallies, even saying things that undermine his defense. But so far he has usually avoided putting himself directly in jeopardy in a legal proceeding.
But the squeeze is on and I think Trump is doing more stupid stuff under pressure.
If the Republican leadership cut him loose, Trump would probably crumble like a cheap suit.
Omnes Omnibus
@Burnspbesq: I do think that people have a tendency to underestimate how good of a job that juries tend to do.
pat
@Tony Jay: another chuckle .
Please keep it up!
JPL
@Cameron: My goodness, who will be the first one to ask him what he means. Sir, did you lie? I don’t need to lie, cuz I’m Donald Trump.
Martin
So, I think the judge is going to have a hell of a problem with sentencing here.
Federal guidelines I’ve seen argued would fall in the 17-24 year range for Trump if found guilty on all counts or on at least one count in each grouping. The problem is the judge doesn’t determine where the person will be held – that’s up to the federal dept of corrections. They can decide Trump Tower or ADX Florence, based I’m sure on some other set of guidelines that would favor the former.
But the problem is that Trump isn’t alone – he’s got Walt on the case as well and Walt too is going to be sentenced, and there is no expectation of luxury for Walt, no institutional deference to him. So the judge, not knowing *where* Trump might be held, might be tempted to go with probation, but giving Walt probation throws the federal sentencing for violations of the espionage act out the window. So how do you give Walt time, but not Trump? And I don’t think that’s going to be an easy needle to thread.
My suggestion is to set him up at Camp David. He’s isolated from the general public as he would need to be, it’s already set up for presidential security, and it’s a military facility. Build a structure off on the side for Trump. He can interact with the staff and hit golf balls and have visiting hours.
Amir Khalid
@Brachiator:
Omnes Omnibus
@TriassicSands: I am sorry that you interpreted my dismissal of your speculation as somehow forbidding you from doing it. You are as free to do it as I am to dismiss it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Martin: Why ruin Camp David?
Martin
@Burnspbesq: Yeah, I don’t have any real concerns about a trial, provided that the judge allows it to get to a trial.
I’m guessing any lawyer won’t have much trouble sniffing out the really problematic potential jurors and getting them out of the pool. Lawyers too have very sensitive bullshit detectors.
Citizen Alan
@Jeffro: I’m kinda open to the idea of Saudi Arabia taking him. The backlash in this country against SA for doing so might well galvanize the nation to become more energy independent and to embrace the electric car.
Van Buren
@The Moar You Know:
I bought a ticket to the worldBut now I’ve come back againWhy do I find it hard to write the next line?Oh I want the truth to be said
Huh huh huh hu-uh huhI know this much is trueHuh huh huh hu-uh huhI know this much is true
karen marie
@Jeffro: Settling and admitting are two different things. Trump settled the case alleging the Trump Organization discriminated against African-Americans but he still denies that he/they ever discriminated.
Burnspbesq
Judge Cannon’s going to need a looper pedal (a piece of guitar tech where you can record a short passage and play it back as often and as long as you want) with “The Court reminds the defendant that he is under oath” on it.
Martin
@Omnes Omnibus: I’m not saying to turn the place over to him – just a corner of it. It’s 125 acres. We can carve out one of those for him.
I mean, you know that guy would fucking hate being in the woods.
Besides, it’s a fun tour point of interest for visiting dignitaries, not unlike how Hearst Castle had its own little zoo.
JPL
@Martin: Nauta has already missed two arraignment dates and is trying to push back the third. Yup might be time to move the venue. My biggest concern is everything is delayed until after the election.
Roberto el oso
@Yutsano: yeah, I thought of Israel as well, although they do have an extradition treaty with us, unlike the Saudis (… I think)
Geminid
A new Reuters/Ipsos poll shows increasing American popular support for Ukraine:
Burnspbesq
@JPL:
It’s time for the FBI to arrest his ass. I still think his current lawyers are subject to disqualification; if they are (as has been widely reported) being paid by a Trump-adjacent PAC, that’s the kind of conflict that courts usually find to be non-waivable. Get him in a room with a Federal PD, and he or she can wise him up about his options.
TriassicSands
Excellent point. It’s difficult to know what will happen, but I’m sure you’re right if his lawyers get their way. We’ve seen that Trump, who fancies himself the smartest human alive, thinks he can “fix” everything by telling it like it really is. You’re also right in that Trump will talk endlessly when he isn’t under oath. Sadly, that is all his supporters need.
On balance, I think you’re right, we won’t see Donald on the stand, which will be a tragedy for history. I’d have to think a smart prosecutor could take Trump apart, running him in circles until he looked utterly ridiculous (except to his most ardent supporters). One of the many questions I’ve always wondered about Trump: Does he really think he’s the smartest person alive or is that just an act? (I’d go with it’s mostly an act.) That’s why I think his claim of it was just “bravado” is a potential winner for him. But again, only on that one issue and in the absence of compelling evidence that he actually had classified documents at that meeting
ETA: My saying he “will get on the stand” was simply what I think he would do if he got on the stand. Not that he was guaranteed to testify.
catclub
@Martin:
He can build matchstick bridges.
Ksmiami
@laura: Someone really needs to stop Jerome Powell from unnecessarily sending the us into recession
Geminid
@Martin: I say Fort Jefferson, in the Dry Tortugas. If it was good enough for Doctor Mudd, it’s good enough for Trump
I read that Fort Jeffeson is the biggest brick structure in the Western Hemisphere, so there’s room.
Roberto el oso
@lowtechcyclist: and it can double as his presidential library.
Martin
@JPL: I think this is why there’s speculation that Jack Smith will have a separate indictment in New Jersey covering what happened at Bedminster. If Cannon wants to slow walk this, the NJ judge might not be so inclined. A little competition might not be a bad thing here. And then if the Jan 6 stuff is a DC judge, yet more.
I’m not too worried about a verdict before the election. I think it’d be best for the voters to have that information, but it’s not the courts problem if voters want to nominate someone who is under multiple felony indictments, all of which presented evidence in the indictment. Does a verdict really change anything? I don’t really think it does. We can all choose to buy his excuses or not, and that holds the same before and after a verdict.
Jackie
@JoyceH: Maybe furbished with extra linens ala Epstein.
catclub
@Geminid:
I think that increase in support is because Ukraine is looking more like it will win. US people generally don’t like to back losers, even if they agree with them.
Jackie
@CaseyL: TIFG won’t testify. His *testimony* will be his videos from interviews and audio recordings – just like at E Jean Carroll’s civil hearing.
japa21
I may have missed this being mentioned previously, but at one point on the tape, one of the staffers, after Trump pulls out the document and shows it, says “Alright, now we have a problem.” If it was nothing, why say that? I am sure Smith knows who that is and has already spoken to that person.
Geminid
@catclub: The front has been static the last six months, and that fed the perception of a stalemate.
Hob
I know this thread is almost entirely about Trump, which is understandable, but I did read that last link to the NYT story from Martha’s Vineyard and… wow, that is some strange-ass reporting. The reporter certainly seems sympathetic to the migrants, and eventually does talk a little about the dishonesty of what Desantis did, but it’s all through a gauzy haze of “look at this heart-warming scene of people getting along” and it soft-pedals the abusive intent by describing it as a “political move” to get Democrats to understand how tough it is to be in a border state and have to deal with migrants. At first I thought this read like the work of a NYT lifestyle writer who doesn’t really follow politics, but no, it’s a guy from the national desk who covers Texas. Is he a Republican explicitly trying to make Desantis and Abbott sound better (if a little misguided), or just an idiot?
Martin
@catclub: Look, Democrats have opinions on the ethical treatment of prisoners. I’m trying to maintain that.
Don’t misunderstand, I’d weld steel prison bars in a section of the sewer under the Statue of Liberty where Americans and foreign visitors can explore this symbol of America’s welcoming attitude toward immigrants, eat a hot dog and then shit on the guy. I’m not going to throw myself in front of that plan. But I wouldn’t openly advocate it, via a detailed description posted on a top 10,000 blog.
That would be wrong.
Kelly
How about this one?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillamook_Rock_Light
Martin
@catclub: I think Americans are VERY eager to be on the side of noble and restrained use of our defense budget after two decades of forever war that basically achieved fuck-all.
Scout211
CNN has more details.
Geminid
@Scout211: Yes, those golf course architects “never met a war they didn’t like.”
rikyrah
Trying to harass and bully this Elder off her land😡😡
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8ejHYpe/
Martin
@Geminid: See, but again you’re ruining a national park/monument. I’m just ruining a military base.
How about a compromise. We let him loose in the bunker under the Greenbriar. It’s massive, and decommissioned. The hotel uses it as a tourist attraction, but it’s not part of the federal registry. It used to have a little press room, and all the little trappings of the White House so he can run around and play-pretend being president again. But he’d be alone, underground, eating nuclear fallout rations. Every year we’d have a little ceremony to see if he’s turned into a Morlock yet.
Gin & Tonic
In news of other morons running for President, RFKJr uses a russian stock image for his latest Twitter ad:
Ken
@Martin: You have a good point about human treatment of prisoners, so I won’t share my “For the love of God, Montressor!” idea.
EDIT: Although your comment at 158 might break your own rule. Kind of a “It puts the lotion on its skin” vibe there.
Jackie
@Martin: “He can interact with the staff and hit golf balls”
I say wherever he ends up NO GOLF COURSES allowed. That’s probably his idea of prison.
Elizabelle
I look forward to TFG transitioning from Bravado to Incommunicado.
MomSense
I have no idea what will become of Trump. I just want him to be prosecuted fairly by the Justice system of our democracy, the same one he tried to destroy. I don’t trust Cannon but I do have faith in the competence and integrity of Merrick Garland and Jack Smith.
My heart breaks for the cruelty we keep showing to migrants and the linked article brought me to tears. I’ve been feeling exhausted by politics but hearing about what they went through reminds me why we keep fighting for Justice and decency.
I like to point, mock, and rage at politics, but IRL I do try to be a good person. I don’t want us to turn into assholes because of the constant stress of dealing with the GOP. I don’t want to sacrifice following the rule of law or trying to employ reason in debates. I don’t have much hope that the trump cultists will be restored to sanity and truth, but I don’t want to model their tactics or behavior because deep down I have to hope and believe that we can get past all of this.
Ken
@Gin & Tonic: A surprising number of Republican candidates get caught doing that. I suspect it has more to do with avoiding stock photo fees than with sympathy for Russia. Besides, we all know how tingly the Republican voters get when they see those manly photos of Russian troops.
Roger Moore
@Baud:
If you want us to adopt this solution, you need to explain how we’re going to get him there.
brantl
Who had: “Everything I ever say is a lie?” on their fascist bingo card? YOU WIN!!!!!!!!!
brantl
@Roger Moore: Shoot him hard into space, via con dios, fuckface!
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: Wow.
Ken
@brantl: “It’s not our fault that the Klingons didn’t show up for the pickup”, you mean?
gene108
Just keep in mind, the demonization of asylum seekers, who are here legally, is the opening salvo to severely restrict all immigration.
Jay
@Hob:
I vote “idiot”.
Gin & Tonic
@zhena gogolia: Looks like they’ve pulled that one.
Jackie
This is GREAT NEWS! And another possible humiliating defeat for TIFG 😁
“An exonerated member of the Central Park Five, Yusef Salaam, is poised to win a Democratic primary race for a New York City Council seat in Harlem,” CNN reports.”
“New York City uses a system known as ranked choice voting in primary and special elections for many local offices, where voters can rank up to five candidates in order of their preferences… As of Wednesday morning, Salaam had received 50.1% of the vote.”
I’ve been following Salaam’s campaign and I sincerely hope he wins! He actually introduces himself as an exonerated member of the Central Park Five to potential voters!👍🏻
Roger Moore
@Martin:
IANAL, but as I understand it the problem with departing from the federal sentencing guidelines requires the judge to explain in writing why they did so, and that written explanation would be part of the record for an appeal of the sentence. If Judge Cannon gives Trump probation when the guidelines say 17-24 years, her explanation would need to be very convincing to survive the inevitable appeal.
brantl
@Brachiator: He’s got full mailing lists of the dumbest VOTERS under the sun.
zhena gogolia
OKay, JL Cauvin has alerted me to this scoop from Miles Taylor (“Anonymous”):
trollhattan
@Gin & Tonic: He’s the encyclopedic definition of hot trash. Someone with not a single redeeming virtue as far as I can tell.
zhena gogolia
@Gin & Tonic: But she’s so cute with her чай
misterpuff
@Ken:
I would suggest the Phantom Zone, but TFG is like a cockroach and would come back thinking he’s General Zod.
zhena gogolia
@zhena gogolia: For Cauvin’s take (with “California Dreamin'” in the background):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMgeHfokFtc
Jay
@gene108:
here in Canada, we have a case,
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/family-deportation-two-continents-1.6891143
Morons in the CBSA.
Roberto el oso
One of my favorite details from the whole “no documents! no documents! you’re the document!” saga is the humiliating note, delivered fairly deadpan, that one of the people present was “the writer” of Mark Meadows’ “autobiography”.
JPL
@Martin: You keep me balanced so hope that you stay around. Maybe not quite balanced but close.
Geminid
@Jackie: Well, that consideration moves Israel back up the list. They only have one golf course.
It’s near Caesaria, on Lake Kinneret (aka the Sea of Galilee). Prime Minister Netanyahu has a a home in Caesaria, so maybe Trump could move in with Bibi. That would be punishment for both of them.
Martin
@Ken: No, that was me just describing, in detail, what we shouldn’t do. It would be just terrible if we did that. Me, a liberal, would shed tears if that happened. Big, doe-eyed soppy tears.
James E Powell
@different-church-lady:
Depends. Do I have to stay anywhere near Dershowitz?
Roger Moore
@Geminid:
The National Park Service won’t like that plan. The Dry Tortugas are a National Park.
Scout211
Hey, it’s legit book. Well, except the “writer” was actually a ghost writer for Meadows who is listed as the author and it was a memoir not an “autobiography.” And except it really wasn’t legit because it’s all about how wonderful the Trump/Meadows team was. Ugh.
The Chief’s Chief
Martin
@zhena gogolia: Look, daddy-daughter incest is the one form that is not explicitly forbidden by the Bible, so who’s really to say if that’s disqualifying in a presidential candidate?
I mean, post-Dobbs there’s 10 states that are signaling pretty hard to go for it.
Brachiator
@Martin:
Thread may be dying, but Trump’s situation, even if he is somehow cleared, may lead to some formal proposals on dealing with a former president who has been convicted of a crime and who faces possible imprisonment.
Martin
@Roger Moore: Right, see, in 152 I’m going on the basis that even though the Statue of Liberty is a national monument, the sewer underneath it probably isn’t. And even if it is, there’s certainly a segment under the harbor through which all sewage flows that isn’t.
Not that I’m advocating for that either, despite the considerable thought I’ve given to the idea.
Jay
@Martin:
I don’t think you are being honest with us.
Martin
@Brachiator: Yeah, I suspect there are already discussions around it.
Martin
@Jay: I guarantee that if any of my detailed plans, which, again, we should not do, were to be implemented there would be tears.
Geminid
@Roger Moore: There’s plenty of room at Fort Jeffeson. Just stick Trump off in a corner, and sell premium tickets to look at his wing and miniature golf course.
Roger Moore
@Martin:
If it was good enough for Lot (Genesis 19:30-38), it should be good enough for Trump.
geg6
@Jackie:
This is my favorite news story of the week. Read about it yesterday and it made me so happy.
Manyakitty
@Betty Cracker: same, and I was wondering!
brantl
Chris Johnson
@laura: No, he can’t win the election.
He already didn’t win the election once, and that’s before Jan 6, before he was an EX president, and before Russia screwed themselves up completely trying to invade Ukraine and losing.
He doesn’t even have Prigozhin’s Internet Research Agency to help him anymore: the head is off that chicken.
No, he can’t win. Period. To try to represent that there’s a chance of that is basically carrying water for Russian propaganda after the bottom dropped out of the bucket. Whatever happens, it won’t be that.
Jay
@Martin:
MAGA tears ?,….. while sweet, don’t contain any potassium, so it’s not like Gatoraide, even though it tastes like that,…..
No One You Know
@Martin: How would that be different from a lifetime vacation, then?
@Ksmiami: Fuck yeah. It’s discouraging to be looking for a job with such an allegedly hot market while clients keep stalling out or outright canceling projects. I’ve got a betting pool on how many staff aug and consulting firms are stringing people along. You don’t qualify for unemployment of they don’t let you go, you don’t qualify if you quit, and your bills don’t stop because there’s a recession “about to happen. “
Gvg
@Betty Cracker: in recent years, bedding has come with tags that say bottom, top or side. It is SO much easier. Don’t know why they didn’t do that decades ago. I hope it wasn’t just bed bath and beyond brands.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Devil’s Island
Geminid
@Chris Johnson: I agree that Trump can’t win next year. But expressing the belief, or fear, that he can win isn’t carrying water for anyone. Trump traumatized the hell out of a lot of people, and it’s no wonder they are fearful.
UncleEbeneezer
UncleEbeneezer
Jackie
@UncleEbeneezer: The Red States are tumbling down in rapid order, aren’t they! Between this and their 6 weeks abortion laws, the southern states (and red states in general) are getting spanked by the judges!👍🏻
UncleEbeneezer
@Jackie: Yup. And I doubt SCOTUS is gonna try and step in to save these ridiculous, and obviously unconstitutional bans. I mean, never say never, but I’d be very surprised.
BC in Illinois
@Jackie:
I suggest that he be in a place with no wifi, but access to visitors (see who wants to come!), and a superb library.
See how he likes that.
Betty Cracker
@Geminid: Thank you.
brantl
@Ken: Well, sure!
Elizabelle
The trajectory: Bravado to Desperado to Incommunicado.
Another Scott
@Jackie:
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: @BC in Illinois:
I’d be pleased as punch if he were sent to MDC Guaynabo. Justice, and all that.
Cheers,
Scott.