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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Bravado (Open Thread)

Bravado (Open Thread)

by Betty Cracker|  June 28, 20233:00 pm| 214 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads

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clip from a news article in which Donald Trump preposterously claims he didn't have classified documents

Scene: sixth grade classroom, student in front of the class giving a book report

Tommy, a student, seemingly reading from a sheaf of notebook paper: So then, um, they took a slingshot and killed the mockingbird with a rock. The end.

Teacher: Tommy! That’s not what happened in the book! You told me you read To Kill a Mockingbird and were ready to give your report! Isn’t that the book report right there in your hand?

Tommy, displaying notebook paper covered with crudely drawn dicks: No book report. I had no book report. That was bravado, if you want to know the truth.

THE END

Alexandra Petri, master satirist at WaPo, had a field day with Trump’s real-time crime narration. Check out the industrial-strength mockery she applied to it from a product-placement angle here.

Open thread!

PS: Here’s a gift link to a NYT article that follows up on four humans Ron DeSantis illegally trafficked to Martha’s Vineyard. Most of the group the governor’s minions lured onto planes with lies and then dumped scattered to other parts of the country, but four stayed on the island.

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Previous Post: « Yes, It Is Too Late for the Republican Party, But At Least We Know There Is One Honorable Republican
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Reader Interactions

214Comments

  1. 1.

    Baud

    June 28, 2023 at 3:12 pm

    The Emperor Has No Documents.

  2. 2.

    E.

    June 28, 2023 at 3:13 pm

    I feel like we are at the beginning of the “then all at once” part.

  3. 3.

    Kay

    June 28, 2023 at 3:14 pm

    I think he’s scared of going to prison. He’s panicky in a way he never was before. It’s probably hard for him to believe – 50 years of coddling for his lawbreaking in NYC and someone is finally prosecuting? His whole world must be tilting.

  4. 4.

    Jeffro

    June 28, 2023 at 3:15 pm

    Early 1920s

    Dear Mr. Secretary of the Interior,

    Here is your bribe for the Teapot Dome scandal! Wow, I love this pen. So smooth. I’ll write an even bigger bribe just to keep using this pen! Seriously, this pen is incredible. Everybody should get a pen made by Parker.

    LOL

  5. 5.

    Jeffro

    June 28, 2023 at 3:17 pm

    @Kay: I wonder what the over/under is on him cracking and offering to tell DOJ absolutely everything vs him fleeing the country in order to avoid prison time.

    It’s lazy but I’m right at 50/50 on this.

  6. 6.

    cope

    June 28, 2023 at 3:17 pm

    Gee, after reading the NYT piece, I hope those four don’t turn into DeSantis supporters as a result of him being responsible for them having the opportunities and experiences they were looking for.

  7. 7.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 28, 2023 at 3:17 pm

    @Jeffro: ​

    offering to tell DOJ absolutely everything

    I’m not sure there’s much left to tell. The man keeps confessing.

  8. 8.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 3:18 pm

    Trump’s back is against the wall and he is in full survival mode. He will lie or say anything to push back and defend his positions. Anything except admit fault.

    He claims bravado made him do it because he feels in his bones that his base will eagerly lap up this lie.

    Trump also recently announced that he is countersuing E Jean Carroll for defamation.

    None of this is likely to work in court, unless Trump can get the dumbest jurors in the universe to sit for any case.

    But Trump will thrash out with his feeble lies and denials until the end. It’s all he’s got, and it ain’t much at all.

  9. 9.

    dmsilev

    June 28, 2023 at 3:19 pm

    1945

    “I, J. Robert Oppenheimer, am become death, destroyer of worlds. Mmm, Utz potato chips!”

    In fairness, they are very good chips.

  10. 10.

    Cameron

    June 28, 2023 at 3:20 pm

    In case anybody outside Florida wants to know what treats the state gummint is serving up to us lucky duckies this weekend, here’s a list:

    https://www.wfla.com/news/florida/list-new-florida-laws-to-take-effect-july-1/

  11. 11.

    Kay

    June 28, 2023 at 3:21 pm

    @Jeffro:

    I think all the white collar criminals are terrified of prison – it’s the ony threat that really reaches them, which is why we should prosecute more of them.

    Imagine neat freak Trump without his chilled Diet Cokes and beauty aids. His hairdo disintegrates in the first week. Just like a mass of smelly gloop on top of his head.

  12. 12.

    trollhattan

    June 28, 2023 at 3:21 pm

    Lord, that’s a hoot.

    1971

    “You know what is a product that I really love?”

    “No, D.B. Cooper, I don’t.”

  13. 13.

    Cameron

    June 28, 2023 at 3:22 pm

    @Baud: A cruel jape from the Candidate with No Pants?

  14. 14.

    trollhattan

    June 28, 2023 at 3:23 pm

    @Kay: Rudy can share styling tips that work for the Big House. He was, after all, a prosecutor. Or so he says.

  15. 15.

    different-church-lady

    June 28, 2023 at 3:24 pm

    It’s kinda weird how so many of Trump’s defenses against self-incriminating statements amount to, “I was just bullshitting!” Yet we’re not supposed to take from that he’s a bullshitter.

  16. 16.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 28, 2023 at 3:24 pm

    Every time I see that quote about how he didn’t have documents, he just had papers, I have to translate it into normal human speak. Apparently for Trump, a “document” is something other than a “paper.”

  17. 17.

    different-church-lady

    June 28, 2023 at 3:26 pm

    If you dumped me blindly on Martha’s Vineyard, I’d probably stay too

  18. 18.

    Baud

    June 28, 2023 at 3:26 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    This is a full service blog. Just say the word.

  19. 19.

    rikyrah

    June 28, 2023 at 3:27 pm

    @Jeffro:

    @Kay: I wonder what the over/under is on him cracking and offering to tell DOJ absolutely everything vs him fleeing the country in order to avoid prison time.

     

    who would take him? What country?

  20. 20.

    Cameron

    June 28, 2023 at 3:28 pm

    @Dorothy A. Winsor: He doesn’t know “document.”  All he knows is “docMEment.”

  21. 21.

    different-church-lady

    June 28, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    @Brachiator:

    None of this is likely to work in court, unless Trump can get the dumbest jurors judges in the universe to sit for any case.

    That improves his chances slightly.

  22. 22.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    @Kay:

    I think he’s scared of going to prison.

    The thing that Trump is most afraid of is being publicly branded as a loser. That would be ego death.

    As a former president, he believes that it is unlikely that he would ever go to prison, even if he is convicted of every offense for which he might reasonably be indicted.

    Trump is sustained by his need to always be perceived as powerful and successful.  It’s all he ever was.

  23. 23.

    different-church-lady

    June 28, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    @Baud: WORD!!!

  24. 24.

    Cameron

    June 28, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    Legend has it that if a swinish oaf makes up a new excuse every day, at midnight on the Fourth of July he turns into George Santos.

  25. 25.

    MattF

    June 28, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    @rikyrah: He could buy Greenland and camp out there.

  26. 26.

    dmsilev

    June 28, 2023 at 3:31 pm

    As I mentioned in the previous thread, “Bravado” is awfully reminiscent of “locker-room talk”, the excuse he and his handlers came up with to explain away the infamous Access Hollywood tape. Difference is, then he just had to bull his way through media coverage and wait for But Her Emails to resurge, now he’s got the whole “trial” thing to look forward to…

  27. 27.

    dmsilev

    June 28, 2023 at 3:32 pm

    @different-church-lady: Judge Cannon isn’t stupid. She knows what she’s doing.

    Which makes it worse.

  28. 28.

    Baud

    June 28, 2023 at 3:33 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    Consider yourself kidnapped.

  29. 29.

    MattF

    June 28, 2023 at 3:33 pm

    @Brachiator: He needs to be the winner. Star and director of a new reality show, ‘Stable Genius’.

  30. 30.

    Cameron

    June 28, 2023 at 3:34 pm

    This promises to have some entertainment value: https://www.dailydot.com/debug/breitbart-trump-desantis-influencer-texts/

  31. 31.

    M31

    June 28, 2023 at 3:37 pm

    Bravado, it’s what plants crave!

  32. 32.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 3:38 pm

    @dmsilev:

    As I mentioned in the previous thread, “Bravado” is awfully reminiscent of “locker-room talk”, the excuse he and his handlers came up with to explain away the infamous Access Hollywood tape.

    The weird thing is that the locker room excuse was offered by Trump’s handlers and quickly and widely echoed by his supporters.

    But in his deposition in the E Jean Carroll case, Trump admitted that he believed that powerful and famous men have always been able to grab women by the ____ , and that he was a famous and powerful man. He never said that his words were just an empty boast.

    But Trump is sly and slick. He will use the claim of bravado now because it helps him and he knows his supporters will eat it up.

  33. 33.

    Tony Jay

    June 28, 2023 at 3:39 pm

    Of course Trump is terrified of prison. The only people there who’ll have his back are the Aryans, and Alpha Wolf expects to get paid for protection in real, actual money with real, actual presidents on it. Bullshit and bravado don’t buy you a thing except a shank in the shower.

    Okay, he’d only ever be sent to an ultra-low security prison with all the luxuries his supporters’ money can buy, but he’s also an idiot who hears ‘prison’ and thinks of gothic hellholes where Van Damme gets forced to fight huge hairy inmates by the sadistic Governor.

  34. 34.

    Betty Cracker

    June 28, 2023 at 3:39 pm

    I ordered a lightweight bedspread from Amazon, and it arrived today in a package that seemed too small to enclose a king-size bedspread and two pillow shams, even lightweight ones, even vacuum-packed. I mean, it was like half the size of a shoebox!

    So I removed the outer packaging and carefully punctured the shrink wrapping, and WHOOSH — it busted out of that plastic like Dr. Bruce Banner shredding an Oxford button-down and suit trousers! It was king-sized alright!

    Jeebus, there should be a warning label on those things. It scared the crap outta me and both dogs!

  35. 35.

    MattF

    June 28, 2023 at 3:44 pm

    @dmsilev: I still haven’t quite figured out how “I was lying” makes everything OK.

  36. 36.

    sdhays

    June 28, 2023 at 3:45 pm

    Apparently this is pretty much what Newsmax is going with – “We all know how Trump is…” => “We all know that much of what spews from his cat’s anus-like mouth hole is bullshit and lies…”.

    So, the follow up is: “…Ok. But, let’s just say for the sake of argument that he was somehow managing to not lie in this instance. That would mean he should go to jail, right? Right?”

  37. 37.

    Ken

    June 28, 2023 at 3:45 pm

    @MattF: Star and director of a new reality show, ‘Stable Genius’.

    If that means his sentence will be shoveling manure for twelve hours a day while the cameras watch, I could get behind that. It would be kind of fitting, given the amount of bullshit he’s been producing.

  38. 38.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 3:45 pm

    @MattF:

    He needs to be the winner. Star and director of a new reality show, ‘Stable Genius’.

    It is a subtle distinction, but some people love to win. Other people hate to lose.

    Trump is desperately afraid of looking like and being a loser, so he lies about winning.

  39. 39.

    sdhays

    June 28, 2023 at 3:47 pm

    @rikyrah: Russia’s recruiting.

    ETA: I don’t believe Trump will make a run for it, if for no other reason than he won’t accept the reality of it until it’s too late to run.

  40. 40.

    Jeffro

    June 28, 2023 at 3:47 pm

    @rikyrah: off the top of my head, I’d think Russia or Saudi Arabia would

    @MattF: ha!

    My sincere hope is that it’s the former (that he spills the beans on all of it – the work for Russia, the tax fraud, the blackmail).  I kinda just want to see the look on MAGA nation’s collective dumb faces.

    (ok more than ‘kinda’)

  41. 41.

    Dangerman

    June 28, 2023 at 3:48 pm

    To tell the truth, it was Brawny. He had this thing with paper towels.

  42. 42.

    Kay

    June 28, 2023 at 3:50 pm

    @trollhattan:

    No girdle, no lifts in his shoes, no big boxy suits to hide his girth, no hair or skin products…

    He’ll just be a sloppy old man shuffling along in plastic sandals.

  43. 43.

    Uncle Cosmo

    June 28, 2023 at 3:50 pm

    “Bravado?” Bullshit. Try braggadocio – with the associated strong whiff of the braggadociast knowing he’s blowing it out his butt, which negates any defense involving “diminished mental capacity.”

  44. 44.

    Cameron

    June 28, 2023 at 3:52 pm

    I’m sorry, but somebody had to have taught him that word.  If you had asked him about ‘bravado’ two weeks ago, he’d tell you he wouldn’t dream of putting that funny Mexican stuff on his hamberder.

  45. 45.

    Calouste

    June 28, 2023 at 3:52 pm

    @rikyrah: Besides Russia you mean?

  46. 46.

    JoyceH

    June 28, 2023 at 3:54 pm

    What I find astonishing is that Trump is so stupid, he appears to think that the audio is the only evidence Smith has. Does he genuinely not remember that there were other people there with him? Can he not comprehend that those other people will be/have been subpoenaed, to testify to the truth under penalty of perjury? That they will SAY what Trump had in his hand and showed to them?

  47. 47.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 3:56 pm

    @Tony Jay:

    Of course Trump is terrified of prison. The only people there who’ll have his back are the Aryans, and Alpha Wolf expects to get paid for protection in real, actual money with real, actual presidents on it. Bullshit and bravado don’t buy you a thing except a shank in the shower.

    Trump would never go to any conventional prison. Also, the steps to ensure his protection in any type of confinement would be extraordinary. And as a former president, he would be entitled to Secret Service protection.

    This scenario would make a hell of a movie. Secret Service Supermax, starring the Rock, Jason Statham, Jason Momoa and Henry Cavill as agents assigned to guard a disgraced and imprisoned president who has a contract on his life by enemies he had put away.

  48. 48.

    Yutsano

    June 28, 2023 at 3:58 pm

    @Calouste: Why would they take him in? He’s much more useful creating chaos in the US. The Saudis however would welcome him. And I’m calling a sleeper country into the mix: Israel.

  49. 49.

    JoyceH

    June 28, 2023 at 3:59 pm

    @Brachiator: He’ll have a wing of his own, guarantee it.

  50. 50.

    sdhays

    June 28, 2023 at 4:02 pm

    @Brachiator: The studios have ChatGPT working on a script right now.

  51. 51.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 28, 2023 at 4:03 pm

    @Brachiator:

    But Trump is sly and slick. He will use the claim of bravado now because it helps him and he knows his supporters will eat it up.

    He’s just saying shit.  Any child could make up that same excuse.  His supporters will eat it up because IOKIYAR.  They will run with any excuse they’re given to claim that Republicans are always right and Democrats are always wrong.

    If he were sly and slick, he wouldn’t keep making up different excuses, many of which will count as confessions when they’re brought up in court.

  52. 52.

    Ken

    June 28, 2023 at 4:05 pm

    @Brachiator: Secret Service Supermax, starring the Rock, Jason Statham, Jason Momoa and Henry Cavill as agents assigned to guard a disgraced and imprisoned president who has a contract on his life by enemies he had put away.

    In act two, this turns into a comedy when it’s found that all four of them are hit men, but only one can fulfill their contract and collect.

     

    @JoyceH: He may have a prison of his own. Some have suggested Alcatraz, but that would prevent tours. There’s probably some remote decommissioned lighthouse that could be repurposed.

  53. 53.

    eclare

    June 28, 2023 at 4:06 pm

    Wow.  I have no idea what that word salad means.

    https://youtu.be/a0x6vIAtFcI

  54. 54.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 4:07 pm

    @JoyceH:

    What I find astonishing is that Trump is so stupid, he appears to think that the audio is the only evidence Smith has. Does he genuinely not remember that there were other people there with him? Can he not comprehend that those other people will be/have been subpoenaed, to testify to the truth under penalty of perjury? That they will SAY what Trump had in his hand and showed to them?

    Trump is just that stupid.

    And he is furiously improvising in reaction to each new revelation. And he doesn’t appear to confer with his attorneys, or pay attention to them. He has to play to the public.

  55. 55.

    Delk

    June 28, 2023 at 4:07 pm

    Johnny Bravado

  56. 56.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 4:12 pm

    @Yutsano: Israel has too many problems already, and Trump probably wouldn’t like it there anyway.

    He might like the United Arab Emirates. They host a lot of wealthy expats. The UAE are awful close to Iran, though. Trump is on the Revolutionary Guard Corps’ shit list for assassinating the revered General Soleimani, and they won’t forget that.

  57. 57.

    ...now I try to be amused

    June 28, 2023 at 4:13 pm

    @MattF:

    He needs to be the winner.

    Good point. Merely not losing is not good enough for him. It’s why he never cuts his losses and always doubles down. Right now he knows he can’t win in a court of law so he’s  pleading his case in the court of public opinion and working his get-out-of-jail-free card of being a presidential candidate for all it’s worth, even if it risks further criminal exposure.

  58. 58.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 4:14 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    If he were sly and slick, he wouldn’t keep making up different excuses, many of which will count as confessions when they’re brought up in court.

    I didn’t say that Trump was smart. Trump is desperately trying to evade responsibility even though it is not working, because it is what he does.

    But here is where his tired shit DOES work. Fox News and the GOP leadership will echo Trump’s nonsense. And, as everyone knows, his supporters will eat this stuff up.

    It doesn’t seem to matter to Trump whether any of this will help him in court, with an honest judge and an honest jury.

  59. 59.

    Tony Jay

    June 28, 2023 at 4:14 pm

    @JoyceH:

    The Not The Best Wing

  60. 60.

    WaterGirl

    June 28, 2023 at 4:14 pm

    @Baud:  I suppose I need to put up a blog BLEG now for a BJ relay to get her to Martha’s vineyard.

  61. 61.

    CaseyL

    June 28, 2023 at 4:14 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    Oh, lordy: will he testify at that trial?  My guess is his attorneys will fight tooth and nail to keep him off the stand.   And, if they can’t, then it will be a non-stop litany of him declining to answer under the 5th Amendment.

    That’s what he’s done in the past, isn’t it? When he’s had to testify? Just takes the 5th over and over?

    Otherwise, the jury will be treated to a litany of Trump yelling “Fake News! I didn’t say that!” when his own words are recited, or replayed, back to him.

  62. 62.

    WaterGirl

    June 28, 2023 at 4:15 pm

    @Betty Cracker: That sounds crazy.

  63. 63.

    WaterGirl

    June 28, 2023 at 4:18 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Was it this one?  It says climate friendly packaging.

  64. 64.

    rikyrah

    June 28, 2023 at 4:19 pm

    @Ken:

    @JoyceH: He may have a prison of his own. Some have suggested Alcatraz, but that would prevent tours. There’s probably some remote decommissioned lighthouse that could be repurposed.

     

    Send him to Gitmo

  65. 65.

    Tony Jay

    June 28, 2023 at 4:21 pm

    @Brachiator:

      And as a former president, he would be entitled to Secret Service protection.

    Aryan Brotherhood leader Alpha Wolf is a highly decorated Secret Service agent on extended sabbatical while he serves 20 years for three counts of murder, two of extortion and a little bit of wire fraud*. I imagine him being played by Liv Schreiber.

    * They have a hell of a Union.

  66. 66.

    Ken B

    June 28, 2023 at 4:25 pm

    @Yutsano: Another country that might be willing to take him might be North Korea.

    Can you imagine the propaganda value of having an ex-president choosing to finish his days in Kim’s little paradise?

    They could even let him keep fundraising to finance his triumphant return for a modest fee. Maybe 60%

  67. 67.

    Calouste

    June 28, 2023 at 4:26 pm

    @Ken: Attu Island https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attu_Island sounds like an ideal location to me.

  68. 68.

    Steeplejack

    June 28, 2023 at 4:27 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    “Put up a bleg.” Damn autocorrect.

  69. 69.

    Redshift

    June 28, 2023 at 4:28 pm

    @JoyceH:

    What I find astonishing is that Trump is so stupid, he appears to think that the audio is the only evidence Smith has. Does he genuinely not remember that there were other people there with him? Can he not comprehend that those other people will be/have been subpoenaed, to testify to the truth under penalty of perjury? That they will SAY what Trump had in his hand and showed to them?

    Exactly. The papers vs. documents thing is him saying “I just said I had classified documents, but what I actually showed them was just some of my papers.”

    But beyond that, he doesn’t seem to grasp that the reason this conversation was introduced as evidence is because it shows, contrary to all his (and his lawyers’) defenses of him keeping the documents, that:

    • he knew he hadn’t declassified them
    • he knew he couldn’t declassify them because he was no longer president
    • he knew they were still secret and he wasn’t supposed to let anyone see them
  70. 70.

    WaterGirl

    June 28, 2023 at 4:28 pm

    @eclare: What was that scene from?

  71. 71.

    WaterGirl

    June 28, 2023 at 4:30 pm

    @Steeplejack: Yeah, I just saw that when I got down to my comment, and then fixed it.  You are correct, sir!

  72. 72.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 28, 2023 at 4:30 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Reminds me of that old Dick Van Dyke Show episode where Laura opens a package addressed to Rob and it turns out to be an inflatable boat and expands to the size of the entire living room.

  73. 73.

    Baud

    June 28, 2023 at 4:30 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    It could be an On The Road project.

  74. 74.

    Redshift

    June 28, 2023 at 4:32 pm

    @Brachiator:

    It doesn’t seem to matter to Trump whether any of this will help him in court, with an honest judge and an honest jury.

    As Teri Kanefeld is fond of pointing out, he behaves like this because his political goals are in conflict with his legal goals. He could have gotten out of legal trouble (at least for this) many times by just giving in, but politically it was more important to be seen as fighting and to paint himself as a victim.

  75. 75.

    Betty Cracker

    June 28, 2023 at 4:32 pm

    @WaterGirl: Similar but I always get striped bedding so I can tell which way it fits on the bed because otherwise I’ll put it on the wrong way 100% of the time! Other people might put it on wrong and have to start over half the time or even 75% of the time if they’re unlucky. But not me, nope, I defy the laws of probability somehow in this one activity 100% of the time, so striped bedding it is! ;-

    @SiubhanDuinne: Haha, yep, kind of alarming!

  76. 76.

    NotMax

    June 28, 2023 at 4:34 pm

    @dmsilev

    Hard to top Soupy.
    :)

  77. 77.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 28, 2023 at 4:34 pm

    @Brachiator:

    Movie schmovie. Big blockbuster Broadway musical or go home.

  78. 78.

    Steeplejack

    June 28, 2023 at 4:35 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Pulp Fiction.

  79. 79.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 28, 2023 at 4:35 pm

    @Redshift:

    he behaves like this because his political goals are in conflict with his legal goals

    I contest this.  He behaves like this because he’s an entitled, childish prick who wants the whole world to know how important he is and that he gets to own president things because he was president and they’re HIS.  If he was doing this for political gain, he would be a whole lot more consistent in his excuses and they would be less damning.  This isn’t a plan.  This is a dumbass flailing.

  80. 80.

    Steeplejack

    June 28, 2023 at 4:36 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    That’s a genius “one weird trick”!

  81. 81.

    Redshift

    June 28, 2023 at 4:37 pm

    @…now I try to be amused:

    It’s why he never cuts his losses and always doubles down.

    Except that’s not true either; it’s another one of the lies he tells about himself. He’s settled plenty of legal cases in the past, despite his claims that he never does.

    It’s possible his overriding motivation right now is to become president again to erase the unacceptable fact of having lost, but he is capable of losing if it’s in a way that doesn’t define him.

  82. 82.

    WaterGirl

    June 28, 2023 at 4:40 pm

    @Betty Cracker: That’s me, only with sense of direction.

    I wouldn’t say my instinct on which way to turn in an unfamiliar place is 100% wrong, but you will seldom regret doing the opposite of what I think.

    *My instincts are still dead wrong when it comes to direction, but GPS helps.

  83. 83.

    M31

    June 28, 2023 at 4:40 pm

    @SiubhanDuinne: funniest thing I ever read was an account, years ago on an air-cooled VW listserve, of a guy whose girlfriend reached into the back seat of their beetle to grab something out of a backpack and accidentally set off their inflatable raft.

    They were fine, but they pulled over as the thing went bonkers, pushing out the rear and then the front windows

    A cop who saw the whole thing came over and as soon as he saw they were OK, couldn’t stop laughing hahahahahaha must have been amazing to see

  84. 84.

    moops

    June 28, 2023 at 4:42 pm

    Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that the specific document being waved around in NJ in this recorded meeting is STILL MISSING?

  85. 85.

    SiubhanDuinne

    June 28, 2023 at 4:44 pm

    @M31:

    LOL.  Probably before cop-cams were widely used. Pity; that would have gone viral af if it were on film.

  86. 86.

    Frankensteinbeck

    June 28, 2023 at 4:45 pm

    @moops:

    It’s been brought up.  There has been speculation about whether this will give the FBI a warrant-worthy excuse to search the place, and a little speculation about whether he sold it or something.  There’s just not much else to say.

  87. 87.

    rikyrah

    June 28, 2023 at 4:52 pm

    @moops:

    Is everyone just going to ignore the fact that the specific document being waved around in NJ in this recorded meeting is STILL MISSING?

     

    Jack Smith isn’t.

    And, also, those that they know were copied.

  88. 88.

    Amir Khalid

    June 28, 2023 at 4:52 pm

    @Brachiator:

    And as a former president, he would be entitled to Secret Service protection.

    Would he really? Even a minimum-security federal prison would still have plenty of guards, and it seems redundant to provide TFG with a full Secret Service detail on top of that. I expect the Secret Service would cut down his detail; he wouldn’t need as much protecting in prison, and the SS would want to avoid getting in the way of the prison’s own guards.

  89. 89.

    TriassicSands

    June 28, 2023 at 4:54 pm

    This “smoking gun” is and always has been “reasonable doubt” (but only on this specific issue.) Two things are more or less equally believable (both of which should, but won’t, tell votes that Trump must never be elected again). First, Trump is a reckless, dangerous idiot who would take and keep secret documents and show them to unauthorized people. Second, Trump is a lying clown who would pretend to have secret documents in order to impress people with what a super important guy he is and as proof he was right and someone else was wrong.

    A few days ago, I told my sister that if they had video of Trump with documents that could be identified as classified materials, then, yes, this might be “smoking gun.” But audio only, even with the testimony of people who were there, can be turned into mere “bravado” by a smart, probably corrupt, lawyer.

    To me, the audio is overwhelmingly compelling evidence of Trump’s utter depravity and the danger he poses. But, I’m not going to be on the jury, and the “average” juror, and certainly anyone who supports Trump will dismiss all this a “bravado,” which is something they love about him. To them, “telling it like it his” simply means saying anything that sticks to the libs and socialists.

  90. 90.

    lowtechcyclist

    June 28, 2023 at 4:55 pm

    @Ken:

    He may have a prison of his own. Some have suggested Alcatraz, but that would prevent tours. There’s probably some remote decommissioned lighthouse that could be repurposed.

    Or just build him a separate house on the grounds of a Federal prison.  There are lots of possible solutions to the ex-Presidential incarceration problem.

    The main thing is, confine him in a place that isn’t his and that he has no control over, with access (physical, phone, internet) to the outside world that’s no different from what any other Federal prisoner gets.

  91. 91.

    Wapiti

    June 28, 2023 at 4:55 pm

    @Ken: Give him some space in Guantanamo

    eta: the location keeps (most) of his supporters away; if he dies there it won’t be a shrine; easy enough to find or build space on base for the Secret Service detachment.

  92. 92.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 28, 2023 at 4:56 pm

    @CaseyL: A defendant has an absolute right to testify if they choose to.  If you do choose to testify, you waive your Fifth Amendment rights as to any subject on which you testified. You can’t just get up on the stand and say what you want and then refuse to answer any questions.

  93. 93.

    The Moar You Know

    June 28, 2023 at 4:59 pm

    He may have a prison of his own.

    @Ken: there is precedent, although not strictly American precedent:  Spandau.

  94. 94.

    TriassicSands

    June 28, 2023 at 5:05 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Of course, you are correct, but when we’re talking about Trump, we know that he will get on the stand and do whatever he wants. Or at least try to. Ordinarily, that might not go well for him, but with Loose Cannon as the judge, who knows.

    Cannon may think that, if she plays her cards right and Trump wins next year, she could be in line for a seat on an appellate court. On the other hand, I can’t pretend to know what really goes through the mind of someone like Cannon. Her lack of experience and hyper-partisanship muddies the waters.

    As with anything involving Trump, expect a circus with Trump as the center-ring clown.

  95. 95.

    CaseyL

    June 28, 2023 at 5:06 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    There is not enough popcorn in the entire known universe, if that waste of protoplasm decides to testify.

  96. 96.

    Jeffro

    June 28, 2023 at 5:06 pm

    While we are all interested in seeing trump spin out like this, it should be equally interesting to watch ol’ Rhonda as he swirls down the drain for the rest of the year:

    Hard to believe, but it’s true: a majority of the GOP really is determined to run with the three-time losing, twice-impeached, mango menace in 2024

    What do you think, Repubs?  Maybe run Casey instead??

     

    Facing newly combative opponents, millions of dollars’ worth of competing advertising and two indictments, Trump is in a dominant position in the GOP presidential race halfway through 2023. He has a wide lead on the competition, polls show. He draws enthusiastic crowds. And even some of his rival operatives acknowledge he has an unshakable grip on a sizable part of the electorate.

    DeSantis — who once ran more competitively against Trump in the polls — doesn’t look as threatening after slipping to a distant second and then stalling out. The non-Trump vote is splintered and surveying a crowded field of alternatives, according to interviews with voters in this state and elsewhere, as well as polling of the GOP race.

    Allies and advisers to Trump rivals say there’s plenty of time to reshape the race with debates, intensive field organizing and early state momentum. But few deny that Trump has only grown more formidable in the first half of the year while the race to displace him is more unsettled than ever.

    Some see a path to toppling Trump by targeting his electability as he comes under growing legal threats. They argue a Trump nomination would help President Biden win a second term.

    “We’re going to get killed” if the general election focuses on Trump’s legal woes, said Sean Van Anglen, a GOP consultant supportive of DeSantis who called Trump a liability for down-ballot candidates. “It’s going to be a field day for Biden and the Democratic Party.”

    But many Republicans are not voicing such concerns. Trump’s strength with the GOP base was on display this past weekend at the Faith & Freedom Coalition conference,

    Keep thinking that “strength with the GOP base” means much in the general, snooze media!

  97. 97.

    eclare

    June 28, 2023 at 5:07 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Pulp Fiction.  I know it has been soiled by the Weinsteins.  A great movie.  Three hours goes by like that.

    It also played with time.  Once you watch it I will tell you what was the actual last scene in the movie!

  98. 98.

    Seanly

    June 28, 2023 at 5:08 pm

    There’s an old, old SNL skit for the 18 minutes of missing Watergate tapes where Nixon & the gang are deliberatingly saying incriminating things into the tape recorder while holding back laughs. I couldn’t find it on YouTube but I know it had Akroyd & Buck Henry. Same energy…

  99. 99.

    Jeffro

    June 28, 2023 at 5:09 pm

    DeSantis remains the most competitive challenger to Trump and has the support of more than 1 in 5 GOP voters in recent polls. Speaking several hours after DeSantis on Tuesday, when both candidates campaigned in New Hampshire, Trump bragged about his lead in the key early state and acknowledged he’s relentlessly attacking DeSantis rather than other candidates.

    It’s “because he’s in second,” Trump told the crowd to laughter. “We don’t have to attack the one in third — don’t attack third, fourth, fifth or sixth. Worry about two. As they keep coming up to two, we keep sending them back to the dry cleaners.”

    DeSantis’s official entrance into the race last month didn’t give him the boost many supporters were hoping for, leaving Trump-weary Republicans in a familiar position — waiting for the former president’s own conduct to catch up with him someday, somehow, despite recent history.

    Hey!  Hey!  Hey “trump-weary Republicans”!!  All y’all have to do is GET OFF YOUR ASSES and work for it!  Barring that, you could – get this – GET LOUD ABOUT SUPPORTING THE DEMOCRAT IN THE RACE.  You have options!  You have agency!  You don’t have to be tarred with trump-stink forever…but you will, unless you actually do. something.

  100. 100.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 28, 2023 at 5:10 pm

    @TriassicSands: You could have stopped at your second comma.  The rest is just doom speculation.

  101. 101.

    karen marie

    June 28, 2023 at 5:12 pm

    @Jeffro: Never going to happen.  Trump believes that his lies are not lies because they came out of his mouth and he is beyond criticism.

    “We’re an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you’re studying that reality — judiciously, as you will — we’ll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that’s how things will sort out. We’re history’s actors . . . and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do.”

     

    It’s been widely attributed to Karl Rove but he denies he said it and Ron Suskind refuses to confirm or deny whether it was Rove or an aide.

    Regardless of who said it, it’s a principle that Republicans have lived by for the last 50 years. Why would Trump reject such a useful concept?

  102. 102.

    Roger Moore

    June 28, 2023 at 5:15 pm

    @MattF:

    I still haven’t quite figured out how “I was lying” makes everything OK.

    It doesn’t make everything OK, but it’s better than the statement being true.  Those statements are just incredibly incriminating.  He says he has top secret documents that he never declassified and then shows them off despite admitting he’s not supposed to.  That’s the whole documents part of the case wrapped up in a bow for the prosecution.  The only way he can avoid jail time is by getting the statement excluded or convincing the jury he was lying about having classified documents.  The first one might work in criminal court, but it won’t work in the court of public opinion, so he’s going all in on claiming his statements at the time were just bragging.

  103. 103.

    hueyplong

    June 28, 2023 at 5:16 pm

    @The Moar You Know: As long as we’re fantasizing about multiple-count convictions of several national security crimes, it seems like we could kill several birds with one stone by making Trump the sole “guest” at Gitmo, Spandau-style.

    A review would determine whether existing Gitmo prisoners are transferred or released.

    Might be fun to see the reaction of Trump’s Cuban emigree supporters to that one.

  104. 104.

    Cameron

    June 28, 2023 at 5:18 pm

    @Jeffro: Strength Through Joy!

  105. 105.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 28, 2023 at 5:19 pm

    Federal judge temporarily blocks portion of Kentucky’s ban on gender-affirming care for trans youth:

    (LEX 18) — A federal judge has temporarily blocked a portion of Senate Bill 150, Kentucky’s ban on gender-affirming care for transgender youth.

    Senate Bill 150 passed the Kentucky legislature and was initially sent to Gov. Beshear’s desk. After the governor vetoed the bill, the legislature voted to override his veto, and the bill was set to go into effect on Thursday.

    “We are grateful to the Court for enjoining this egregious ban on medically necessary care, which would have caused harm for countless young Kentuckians,” said ACLU of Kentucky Legal Director Corey Shapiro. “This is a win, but it is only the first step. We’re prepared to fight for families’ right to make their own private medical decisions in court, and to continue doing everything in our power to ensure access to medical care is permanently secured in Kentucky.”

    “This decision is a huge relief for the families targeted by this unnecessary and harmful law, which prevents doctors from doing their jobs and parents from making medical decisions for their own children,” said Shannon Minter, Legal Director for the National Center for Lesbian Rights (NCLR). “We are grateful that the court carefully considered all of the evidence and recognized that there is no support for this dangerous and unprecedented law.”

    The ruling was granted by a federal judge following a motion for a preliminary injunction by the plaintiffs which include seven transgender minors and their parents.

    They sued state officials, including Attorney General Daniel Cameron for enforcing Senate Bill 150, alleging the law’s prohibition on the use of puberty-blockers and hormones violates the Equal Protection Clause and the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

  106. 106.

    Jeffro

    June 28, 2023 at 5:20 pm

    @karen marie: never say never!  trump has said many times he “never settles”…but he does.  He does.

    And him trying to deny reality won’t deny the reality of multiple guilty verdicts and prison sentences.  He can say what he wants to his cult, but he’s not a magician…he can sway them, but he can’t make the charges, the evidence, the eventual trials and convictions go away.

  107. 107.

    realbtl

    June 28, 2023 at 5:20 pm

    I’d be ok with TFG being confined to Mar whatever as long as it was year round.  You know that cheap sob has been skimping on maintenence.  Welcome to Florida summer Don.​
    ​
    ​

  108. 108.

    rikyrah

    June 28, 2023 at 5:22 pm

     

    A video from 1968 about Blacks at Martha’s Vineyard

    https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8ejU9p2/

  109. 109.

    Tom Levenson

    June 28, 2023 at 5:22 pm

    @Ken: How about Thatcher Island? Joseph “The Animal” Barboza spent some time in Witness Protection on what is little more than a rock with twin lighthouses.

    (ETA: This can’t be allowed to happen. This is a truly beautiful spot on MA’s north shore, right around where I plan to retire, and I can’t have it be sullied by Orange Man. Though I’m sure he’d loathe being confined in a socialist hellscape like our Commonwealth, which would be a minor bonus.)

  110. 110.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    June 28, 2023 at 5:24 pm

    @realbtl: I’m OK with him being confined in Trump Tower as long as he’s held with the same restrictions he’d face in prison. I’m not sure what those would be. Obviously can’t leave. Visiting hours? Restricted contacts? No servants?

  111. 111.

    laura

    June 28, 2023 at 5:27 pm

    Gee, I hope that he’s in a constant pants shitting rage/panic all day every day as the walls are closing in and everyone who played a role in his various business-like grifts and his administration-like grifts are either witnesses or codefendants or tattle tales. I am reminded of Fran Leibowitz definitive statement on trump’s stupidity- that both matter how stupid one might believe him to be, he’s actually much stupider. I’ll take her word for as it’s based upon decades of close observation. And today’s latest confirming his sex pestery and ‘bravado’ just makes my jibbet fill with bile. And yet, that he may not only get his rancid party’s nomination, and possibly win the election- and he knows it. That is my personal nightmare fuel.

  112. 112.

    steve g

    June 28, 2023 at 5:28 pm

    I didn’t have any documents.

    1. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.
    2. When you’re a star, they let you do it.
    3. That would be wrong.
  113. 113.

    Burnspbesq

    June 28, 2023 at 5:32 pm

    @Ken:

    There’s probably some remote decommissioned lighthouse that could be repurposed.

    How about a decommissioned former Level1 facility, a million miles from nowhere, where it’s well over 100 degrees for most of the year? Yeah, Boron, CA sounds like the place for Trump.

  114. 114.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 5:33 pm

    @Amir Khalid:

    RE: And as a former president, he would be entitled to Secret Service protection.

    Would he really? Even a minimum-security federal prison would still have plenty of guards, and it seems redundant to provide TFG with a full Secret Service detail on top of that.

    We have never had this situation before, where a former president is convicted of a crime and sent to prison.

    Trump would be setting a precedent.

    But Trump could potentially be in danger even in a minimum security prison.

  115. 115.

    Ironcity

    June 28, 2023 at 5:35 pm

    @Calouste:   The Aleutians were famous in WW II for people being brought back to civilization with a thousand mile Aleutian Stare.   TFG  is not mentally tough enough to stand it there.    And getting there is not half the fun because the it is almost impossible to get in by air so the only way is by boat to a modest landing on an island with no real harbor in some of the worst weather anywhere.  On second thought sounds appropriate.  With all his co-conspirators for company.

  116. 116.

    Burnspbesq

    June 28, 2023 at 5:37 pm

    Juries tend to have highly sensitive bullshit detectors. They’ll get to observe his demeanor if he testifies, and it won’t help him even a tiny bit.

  117. 117.

    Scout211

    June 28, 2023 at 5:37 pm

    This is getting ridiculous.  Trump believes (like his “locker room talk” excuse in 2016), that if he just claims he was bragging and lying to all those giggling females in the room, then he will be exonerated from the whole “witch hunty’ mess that he got himself into.

    But E. Jean Carroll said he raped her so he is suing her for millions.  Because those words would defame him.

    Apparently, Donald J. Trump is the only person allowed to defame Donald J. Trump. And he’s done quite a good job of defaming his own character.  I am very impressed.

    Idiot.

    I wonder how his attorneys sleep at night . . .

  118. 118.

    Ken

    June 28, 2023 at 5:38 pm

    @Tom Levenson: A couple weeks ago I suggested either Howland or Baker Island, chiefly because they are in the UTC-12:00 time zone, the only one in which no humans live. However both are wildlife refuges, and I wouldn’t want to disturb the seabirds.

  119. 119.

    Baud

    June 28, 2023 at 5:40 pm

    Reupping my suggestion for the Klingon penal colony of Rura Penthe.

  120. 120.

    TriassicSands

    June 28, 2023 at 5:41 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    Well, heaven forbid, that there would ever be any speculation on B-J. Nothing but hard facts here.

    And it is hardly “doom” speculation, but simply commentary on the already obvious incompetence of Judge Cannon. Am I allowed to say that, or do I have to run it through you for approval first?

  121. 121.

    JPL

    June 28, 2023 at 5:42 pm

    @sdhays: Be prepared for why won’t they give me a deal.   They gave Hunter Biden a deal.  

  122. 122.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 5:42 pm

    @TriassicSands:

    Of course, you are correct, but when we’re talking about Trump, we know that he will get on the stand and do whatever he wants. Or at least try to. Ordinarily, that might not go well for him, but with Loose Cannon as the judge, who knows.

    I don’t think that Trump would ever get on the stand and testify. He didn’t testify at the sexual assault civil trial. Trump will talk crap in public and at rallies, even saying things that undermine his defense. But so far he has usually avoided putting himself directly in jeopardy in a legal proceeding.

    But the squeeze is on and I think Trump is doing more stupid stuff under pressure.

    If the Republican leadership cut him loose, Trump would probably crumble like a cheap suit.

  123. 123.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 28, 2023 at 5:43 pm

    @Burnspbesq: I do think that people have a tendency to underestimate how good of a job that juries tend to do.

  124. 124.

    pat

    June 28, 2023 at 5:43 pm

    @Tony Jay: another chuckle  .

    Please keep it up!

  125. 125.

    JPL

    June 28, 2023 at 5:44 pm

    @Cameron: My goodness, who will be the first one to ask him what he means.  Sir, did you lie?  I don’t need to lie, cuz I’m Donald Trump. 

  126. 126.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 5:44 pm

    So, I think the judge is going to have a hell of a problem with sentencing here.

    Federal guidelines I’ve seen argued would fall in the 17-24 year range for Trump if found guilty on all counts or on at least one count in each grouping. The problem is the judge doesn’t determine where the person will be held – that’s up to the federal dept of corrections. They can decide Trump Tower or ADX Florence, based I’m sure on some other set of guidelines that would favor the former.

    But the problem is that Trump isn’t alone – he’s got Walt on the case as well and Walt too is going to be sentenced, and there is no expectation of luxury for Walt, no institutional deference to him. So the judge, not knowing *where* Trump might be held, might be tempted to go with probation, but giving Walt probation throws the federal sentencing for violations of the espionage act out the window. So how do you give Walt time, but not Trump? And I don’t think that’s going to be an easy needle to thread.

    My suggestion is to set him up at Camp David. He’s isolated from the general public as he would need to be, it’s already set up for presidential security, and it’s a military facility. Build a structure off on the side for Trump. He can interact with the staff and hit golf balls and have visiting hours.

  127. 127.

    Amir Khalid

    June 28, 2023 at 5:46 pm

    @Brachiator:

    “Agent Mulder, every life, every day, is in danger. That’s just life.”

    — AD Walter Skinner, The X-Files

  128. 128.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 28, 2023 at 5:47 pm

    @TriassicSands: I am sorry that you interpreted my dismissal of your speculation as somehow forbidding you from doing it.  You are as free to do it as I am to dismiss it.

  129. 129.

    Omnes Omnibus

    June 28, 2023 at 5:48 pm

    @Martin: Why ruin Camp David?

  130. 130.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 5:49 pm

    @Burnspbesq: Yeah, I don’t have any real concerns about a trial, provided that the judge allows it to get to a trial.

    I’m guessing any lawyer won’t have much trouble sniffing out the really problematic potential jurors and getting them out of the pool. Lawyers too have very sensitive bullshit detectors.

  131. 131.

    Citizen Alan

    June 28, 2023 at 5:49 pm

    @Jeffro: I’m kinda open to the idea of Saudi Arabia taking him. The backlash in this country against SA for doing so might well galvanize the nation to become more energy independent and to embrace the electric car.

  132. 132.

    Van Buren

    June 28, 2023 at 5:49 pm

    @The Moar You Know:
    I bought a ticket to the worldBut now I’ve come back againWhy do I find it hard to write the next line?Oh I want the truth to be said
    Huh huh huh hu-uh huhI know this much is trueHuh huh huh hu-uh huhI know this much is true

  133. 133.

    karen marie

    June 28, 2023 at 5:50 pm

    @Jeffro: Settling and admitting are two different things.  Trump settled the case alleging the Trump Organization discriminated against African-Americans but he still denies that he/they ever discriminated.

  134. 134.

    Burnspbesq

    June 28, 2023 at 5:51 pm

    Judge Cannon’s going to need a looper pedal (a piece of guitar tech where you can record a short passage and play it back as often and as long as you want) with “The Court reminds the defendant that he is under oath” on it.

  135. 135.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 5:51 pm

    @Omnes Omnibus: I’m not saying to turn the place over to him – just a corner of it. It’s 125 acres. We can carve out one of those for him.

    I mean, you know that guy would fucking hate being in the woods.

    Besides, it’s a fun tour point of interest for visiting dignitaries, not unlike how Hearst Castle had its own little zoo.

  136. 136.

    JPL

    June 28, 2023 at 5:52 pm

    @Martin: Nauta has already missed two arraignment dates and is trying to push back the third.  Yup might be time to move the venue.   My biggest concern is everything is delayed until after the election.

  137. 137.

    Roberto el oso

    June 28, 2023 at 5:56 pm

    @Yutsano: yeah, I thought of Israel as well, although they do have an extradition treaty with us, unlike the Saudis (… I think)

  138. 138.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 5:57 pm

    A new Reuters/Ipsos poll shows increasing American popular support for Ukraine:

        The two-day poll concluded on Tuesday showed a sharp rise in backing for arming Ukraine, with 65% of the respondents approving of the shipments compared with 46% in a May poll.

    Eighty-one per cent of Democrats, 56% of Republicans and 57% of independents favor supplying U.S. weapons to Ukraine, according to the latest poll.

  139. 139.

    Burnspbesq

    June 28, 2023 at 5:58 pm

    @JPL:

    Nauta has already missed two arraignment dates and is trying to push back the third.

    It’s time for the FBI to arrest his ass. I still think his current lawyers are subject to disqualification; if they are (as has been widely reported) being paid by a Trump-adjacent PAC, that’s the kind of conflict that courts usually find to be non-waivable. Get him in a room with a Federal PD, and he or she can wise him up about his options.

  140. 140.

    TriassicSands

    June 28, 2023 at 6:00 pm

    @Brachiator: Trump will talk crap in public and at rallies, even saying things that undermine his defense. But so far he has usually avoided putting himself directly in jeopardy in a legal proceeding.

    Excellent point. It’s difficult to know what will happen, but I’m sure you’re right if his lawyers get their way. We’ve seen that Trump, who fancies himself the smartest human alive, thinks he can “fix” everything by telling it like it really is. You’re also right in that Trump will talk endlessly when he isn’t under oath. Sadly, that is all his supporters need.

    On balance, I think you’re right, we won’t see Donald on the stand, which will be a tragedy for history. I’d have to think a smart prosecutor could take Trump apart, running him in circles until he looked utterly ridiculous (except to his most ardent supporters). One of the many questions I’ve always wondered about Trump: Does he really think he’s the smartest person alive or is that just an act? (I’d go with it’s mostly an act.) That’s why I think his claim of it was just “bravado” is a potential winner for him. But again, only on that one issue and in the absence of compelling evidence that he actually had classified documents at that meeting

    ETA: My saying he “will get on the stand” was simply what I think he would do if he got on the stand. Not that he was guaranteed to testify.

  141. 141.

    catclub

    June 28, 2023 at 6:01 pm

    @Martin: ​
     

    Build a structure off on the side for Trump. He can interact with the staff and hit golf balls and have visiting hours.

    He can build matchstick bridges.

  142. 142.

    Ksmiami

    June 28, 2023 at 6:02 pm

    @laura: Someone really needs to stop Jerome Powell from unnecessarily sending the us into recession

  143. 143.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 6:02 pm

    @Martin: I say Fort Jefferson, in the Dry Tortugas. If it was good enough for Doctor Mudd, it’s good enough for Trump

    I read that Fort Jeffeson is the biggest brick structure in the Western Hemisphere, so there’s room.

  144. 144.

    Roberto el oso

    June 28, 2023 at 6:02 pm

    @lowtechcyclist: and it can double as his presidential library.

  145. 145.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 6:02 pm

    @JPL: I think this is why there’s speculation that Jack Smith will have a separate indictment in New Jersey covering what happened at Bedminster. If Cannon wants to slow walk this, the NJ judge might not be so inclined. A little competition might not be a bad thing here. And then if the Jan 6 stuff is a DC judge, yet more.

    I’m not too worried about a verdict before the election. I think it’d be best for the voters to have that information, but it’s not the courts problem if voters want to nominate someone who is under multiple felony indictments, all of which presented evidence in the indictment. Does a verdict really change anything? I don’t really think it does. We can all choose to buy his excuses or not, and that holds the same before and after a verdict.

  146. 146.

    Jackie

    June 28, 2023 at 6:03 pm

    @JoyceH: Maybe furbished with extra linens ala Epstein.

  147. 147.

    catclub

    June 28, 2023 at 6:04 pm

    @Geminid: ​
     I think that increase in support is because Ukraine is looking more like it will win. US people generally don’t like to back losers, even if they agree with them.

  148. 148.

    Jackie

    June 28, 2023 at 6:09 pm

    @CaseyL: TIFG won’t testify. His *testimony* will be his videos from interviews and audio recordings – just like at E Jean Carroll’s civil hearing.

  149. 149.

    japa21

    June 28, 2023 at 6:10 pm

    I may have missed this being mentioned previously, but at one point on the tape, one of the staffers, after Trump pulls out the document and shows it, says “Alright, now we have a problem.” If it was nothing, why say that? I am sure Smith knows who that is and has already spoken to that person.

  150. 150.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 6:10 pm

    @catclub: The front has been static the last six months, and that fed the perception of a stalemate.

  151. 151.

    Hob

    June 28, 2023 at 6:11 pm

    I know this thread is almost entirely about Trump, which is understandable, but I did read that last link to the NYT story from Martha’s Vineyard and… wow, that is some strange-ass reporting. The reporter certainly seems sympathetic to the migrants, and eventually does talk a little about the dishonesty of what Desantis did, but it’s all through a gauzy haze of “look at this heart-warming scene of people getting along” and it soft-pedals the abusive intent by describing it as a “political move” to get Democrats to understand how tough it is to be in a border state and have to deal with migrants. At first I thought this read like the work of a NYT lifestyle writer who doesn’t really follow politics, but no, it’s a guy from the national desk who covers Texas. Is he a Republican explicitly trying to make Desantis and Abbott sound better (if a little misguided), or just an idiot?

  152. 152.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 6:12 pm

    @catclub: Look, Democrats have opinions on the ethical treatment of prisoners. I’m trying to maintain that.

    Don’t misunderstand, I’d weld steel prison bars in a section of the sewer under the Statue of Liberty where Americans and foreign visitors can explore this symbol of America’s welcoming attitude toward immigrants, eat a hot dog and then shit on the guy. I’m not going to throw myself in front of that plan. But I wouldn’t openly advocate it, via a detailed description posted on a top 10,000 blog.

    That would be wrong.

  153. 153.

    Kelly

    June 28, 2023 at 6:13 pm

    @Ken: He may have a prison of his own. Some have suggested Alcatraz, but that would prevent tours. There’s probably some remote decommissioned lighthouse that could be repurposed.

    How about this one?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tillamook_Rock_Light

  154. 154.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 6:14 pm

    @catclub: I think Americans are VERY eager to be on the side of noble and restrained use of our defense budget after two decades of forever war that basically achieved fuck-all.

  155. 155.

    Scout211

    June 28, 2023 at 6:15 pm

    CNN  has more details.

    Prosecutors revealed some key details in their 44-page indictment against Trump. Importantly, prosecutors said Trump “showed and described” the document during the recorded meeting.

    The audiotape was recorded on July 21, 2021.

    The meeting was at Trump’s golf club in

    Bedminster, New Jersey.

    Trump attended the meeting with two of his staffers, plus a writer and a publisher.

    None of the people in the room with Trump had security clearances.

    CNN and other news outlets reported that one of the Trump staffers was Margo Martin, a communications specialist, who previously worked with Trump during his presidency. The other staffer in the room was Liz Harrington, a Trump spokesperson.
    The writer and publisher were there to interview Trump for the then-upcoming autobiography of Mark Meadows, who was Trump’s final chief of staff.
    . . .

    After a 2024 campaign event Wednesday in New Hampshire, Trump told Fox News that after leaving the White House, he held onto “copies of different plans” as well as “newspaper articles” and magazine clippings. His comment about possessing “plans” raised eyebrows, because it was seen as an indication that he did in fact mishandle the US attack plan for Iran.

    Shortly after those comments, a Trump campaign spokesperson told CNN Trump was referring to “political plans.”

    Trump later told reporters he was actually referring to “plans for a golf course” and “building plans.” He also repeated his denial that he “didn’t have documents.”

  156. 156.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 6:19 pm

    @Scout211: Yes, those golf course architects “never met a war they didn’t like.”

  157. 157.

    rikyrah

    June 28, 2023 at 6:20 pm

    Trying to harass and bully this Elder off her land😡😡

     

    https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8ejHYpe/

  158. 158.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 6:21 pm

    @Geminid: See, but again you’re ruining a national park/monument. I’m just ruining a military base.

    How about a compromise. We let him loose in the bunker under the Greenbriar. It’s massive, and decommissioned. The hotel uses it as a tourist attraction, but it’s not part of the federal registry. It used to have a little press room, and all the little trappings of the White House so he can run around and play-pretend being president again. But he’d be alone, underground, eating nuclear fallout rations. Every year we’d have a little ceremony to see if he’s turned into a Morlock yet.

  159. 159.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 28, 2023 at 6:22 pm

    In news of other morons running for President, RFKJr uses a russian stock image for his latest Twitter ad:

    Fucking @RobertKennedyJr is using RUSSIAN stock images for his campaign pic.twitter.com/wwJti34YRP
    — Mykhaïlo Golub (@golub) June 28, 2023

  160. 160.

    Ken

    June 28, 2023 at 6:24 pm

    @Martin: You have a good point about human treatment of prisoners, so I won’t share my “For the love of God, Montressor!” idea.

    EDIT: Although your comment at 158 might break your own rule. Kind of a “It puts the lotion on its skin” vibe there.

  161. 161.

    Jackie

    June 28, 2023 at 6:24 pm

    @Martin: “He can interact with the staff and hit golf balls”

    I say wherever he ends up NO GOLF COURSES allowed. That’s probably his idea of prison.

  162. 162.

    Elizabelle

    June 28, 2023 at 6:25 pm

    I look forward to TFG transitioning from Bravado to Incommunicado.

  163. 163.

    MomSense

    June 28, 2023 at 6:27 pm

    I have no idea what will become of Trump.  I just want him to be prosecuted fairly by the Justice system of our democracy, the same one he tried to destroy.  I don’t trust Cannon but I do have faith in the competence and integrity of Merrick Garland and Jack Smith.
    My heart breaks for the cruelty we keep showing to migrants and the linked article brought me to tears.  I’ve been feeling exhausted by politics but hearing about what they went through reminds me why we keep fighting for Justice and decency.

    I like to point, mock, and rage at politics, but IRL I do try to be a good person.  I don’t want us to turn into assholes because of the constant stress of dealing with the GOP.  I don’t want to sacrifice following the rule of law or trying to employ reason in debates.  I don’t have much hope that the trump cultists will be restored to sanity and truth, but I don’t want to model their tactics or behavior because deep down I have to hope and believe that we can get past all of this.

  164. 164.

    Ken

    June 28, 2023 at 6:28 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: A surprising number of Republican candidates get caught doing that. I suspect it has more to do with avoiding stock photo fees than with sympathy for Russia. Besides, we all know how tingly the Republican voters get when they see those manly photos of Russian troops.

  165. 165.

    Roger Moore

    June 28, 2023 at 6:31 pm

    @Baud:

    Reupping my suggestion for the Klingon penal colony of Rura Penthe.

    If you want us to adopt this solution, you need to explain how we’re going to get him there.

  166. 166.

    brantl

    June 28, 2023 at 6:31 pm

    Who had: “Everything I ever say is a lie?” on their fascist bingo card? YOU WIN!!!!!!!!!

  167. 167.

    brantl

    June 28, 2023 at 6:32 pm

    @Roger Moore: Shoot him hard into space, via con dios, fuckface!

  168. 168.

    zhena gogolia

    June 28, 2023 at 6:34 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: Wow.

  169. 169.

    Ken

    June 28, 2023 at 6:36 pm

    @brantl: “It’s not our fault that the Klingons didn’t show up for the pickup”, you mean?

  170. 170.

    gene108

    June 28, 2023 at 6:37 pm

    Just keep in mind, the demonization of asylum seekers, who are here legally, is the opening salvo to severely restrict all immigration.

  171. 171.

    Jay

    June 28, 2023 at 6:37 pm

    @Hob:

    I vote “idiot”.

  172. 172.

    Gin & Tonic

    June 28, 2023 at 6:38 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Looks like they’ve pulled that one.

  173. 173.

    Jackie

    June 28, 2023 at 6:38 pm

    This is GREAT NEWS! And another possible humiliating defeat for TIFG 😁

    “An exonerated member of the Central Park Five, Yusef Salaam, is poised to win a Democratic primary race for a New York City Council seat in Harlem,” CNN reports.”

    “New York City uses a system known as ranked choice voting in primary and special elections for many local offices, where voters can rank up to five candidates in order of their preferences… As of Wednesday morning, Salaam had received 50.1% of the vote.”

    I’ve been following Salaam’s campaign and I sincerely hope he wins! He actually introduces himself as an exonerated member of the Central Park Five to potential voters!👍🏻

  174. 174.

    Roger Moore

    June 28, 2023 at 6:39 pm

    @Martin:

    IANAL, but as I understand it the problem with departing from the federal sentencing guidelines requires the judge to explain in writing why they did so, and that written explanation would be part of the record for an appeal of the sentence.  If Judge Cannon gives Trump probation when the guidelines say 17-24 years, her explanation would need to be very convincing to survive the inevitable appeal.

  175. 175.

    brantl

    June 28, 2023 at 6:40 pm

    @Brachiator: He’s got full mailing lists of the dumbest VOTERS under the sun.

  176. 176.

    zhena gogolia

    June 28, 2023 at 6:40 pm

    OKay, JL Cauvin has alerted me to this scoop from Miles Taylor (“Anonymous”):

    According to Taylor’s book, the worst of the behavior was Trump’s lewd comments about his own daughter.

    “Aides said he talked about Ivanka Trump’s breasts, her backside, and what it might be like to have sex with her, remarks that once led John Kelly to remind the president that Ivanka was his daughter,” Taylor writes.

  177. 177.

    trollhattan

    June 28, 2023 at 6:41 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: He’s the encyclopedic definition of hot trash. Someone with not a single redeeming virtue as far as I can tell.

  178. 178.

    zhena gogolia

    June 28, 2023 at 6:41 pm

    @Gin & Tonic: But she’s so cute with her чай

  179. 179.

    misterpuff

    June 28, 2023 at 6:45 pm

    @Ken:

    A couple weeks ago I suggested either Howland or Baker Island, chiefly because they are in the UTC-12:00 time zone, the only one in which no humans live.

    I would suggest the Phantom Zone, but TFG is like a cockroach and would come back thinking he’s General Zod.

  180. 180.

    zhena gogolia

    June 28, 2023 at 6:46 pm

    @zhena gogolia: For Cauvin’s take (with “California Dreamin'” in the background):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vMgeHfokFtc

  181. 181.

    Jay

    June 28, 2023 at 6:47 pm

    @gene108:

    here in Canada, we have a case,

    https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/family-deportation-two-continents-1.6891143

    Morons in the CBSA.

  182. 182.

    Roberto el oso

    June 28, 2023 at 6:47 pm

    One of my favorite details from the whole “no documents! no documents! you’re the document!” saga is the humiliating note, delivered fairly deadpan, that one of the people present was “the writer” of Mark Meadows’ “autobiography”.

  183. 183.

    JPL

    June 28, 2023 at 6:47 pm

    @Martin:  You keep me balanced so hope that you stay around.  Maybe not quite balanced but close.

  184. 184.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 6:50 pm

    @Jackie: Well, that consideration moves Israel back up the list. They only have one golf course.

    It’s near Caesaria, on Lake Kinneret (aka the Sea of Galilee). Prime Minister Netanyahu has a a home in Caesaria, so maybe Trump could move in with Bibi. That would be punishment for both of them.

  185. 185.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 6:54 pm

    @Ken: No, that was me just describing, in detail, what we shouldn’t do. It would be just terrible if we did that. Me, a liberal, would shed tears if that happened. Big, doe-eyed soppy tears.

  186. 186.

    James E Powell

    June 28, 2023 at 6:57 pm

    @different-church-lady:

    If you dumped me blindly on Martha’s Vineyard, I’d probably stay too

    Depends. Do I have to stay anywhere near Dershowitz?

  187. 187.

    Roger Moore

    June 28, 2023 at 6:59 pm

    @Geminid:

    I say Fort Jefferson, in the Dry Tortugas.

    The National Park Service won’t like that plan.  The Dry Tortugas are a National Park.

  188. 188.

    Scout211

    June 28, 2023 at 6:59 pm

    @Roberto el oso:  “the writer” of Mark Meadows’ “autobiography”.

    Hey, it’s legit book.  Well, except the “writer” was actually a ghost writer for Meadows who is listed as the author and it was a memoir not an “autobiography.”  And except it really wasn’t legit because it’s all about how wonderful the Trump/Meadows team was.  Ugh.

    The Chief’s Chief

  189. 189.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 7:03 pm

    @zhena gogolia: Look, daddy-daughter incest is the one form that is not explicitly forbidden by the Bible, so who’s really to say if that’s disqualifying in a presidential candidate?

    I mean, post-Dobbs there’s 10 states that are signaling pretty hard to go for it.

  190. 190.

    Brachiator

    June 28, 2023 at 7:04 pm

    @Martin:

    My suggestion is to set him up at Camp David. He’s isolated from the general public as he would need to be, it’s already set up for presidential security, and it’s a military facility. Build a structure off on the side for Trump. He can interact with the staff and hit golf balls and have visiting hours.

    Thread may be dying, but Trump’s situation, even if he is somehow cleared, may lead to some formal proposals on dealing with a former president who has been convicted of a crime and who faces possible imprisonment.

  191. 191.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 7:07 pm

    @Roger Moore: Right, see, in 152 I’m going on the basis that even though the Statue of Liberty is a national monument, the sewer underneath it probably isn’t. And even if it is, there’s certainly a segment under the harbor through which all sewage flows that isn’t.

    Not that I’m advocating for that either, despite the considerable thought I’ve given to the idea.

  192. 192.

    Jay

    June 28, 2023 at 7:07 pm

    @Martin:

    I don’t think you are being honest with us.

  193. 193.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 7:09 pm

    @Brachiator: Yeah, I suspect there are already discussions around it.

  194. 194.

    Martin

    June 28, 2023 at 7:12 pm

    @Jay: I guarantee that if any of my detailed plans, which, again, we should not do, were to be implemented there would be tears.

  195. 195.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 7:12 pm

    @Roger Moore: There’s plenty of room at Fort Jeffeson. Just stick Trump off in a corner, and sell premium tickets to look at his wing and miniature golf course.

  196. 196.

    Roger Moore

    June 28, 2023 at 7:12 pm

    @Martin:

    Look, daddy-daughter incest is the one form that is not explicitly forbidden by the Bible, so who’s really to say if that’s disqualifying in a presidential candidate?

    If it was good enough for Lot (Genesis 19:30-38), it should be good enough for Trump.

  197. 197.

    geg6

    June 28, 2023 at 7:15 pm

    @Jackie:

    This is my favorite news story of the week.  Read about it yesterday and it made me so happy.

  198. 198.

    Manyakitty

    June 28, 2023 at 7:15 pm

    @Betty Cracker: same, and I was wondering!

  199. 199.

    brantl

    June 28, 2023 at 7:25 pm

    @rikyrah:   Some have suggested Alcatraz, but that would prevent tours.  It’s a tour for non-trumpers, I would go to a place I wouldn’t go and give you 20 bucks for the chance to see STrumpy standing around a prison yard with his hands in his pockets, and that whirling-dervish racoon on his head.

  200. 200.

    Chris Johnson

    June 28, 2023 at 7:27 pm

    @laura: No, he can’t win the election.

    He already didn’t win the election once, and that’s before Jan 6, before he was an EX president, and before Russia screwed themselves up completely trying to invade Ukraine and losing.

    He doesn’t even have Prigozhin’s Internet Research Agency to help him anymore: the head is off that chicken.

    No, he can’t win. Period. To try to represent that there’s a chance of that is basically carrying water for Russian propaganda after the bottom dropped out of the bucket. Whatever happens, it won’t be that.

  201. 201.

    Jay

    June 28, 2023 at 7:30 pm

    @Martin:

    MAGA tears ?,….. while sweet, don’t contain any potassium, so it’s not like Gatoraide, even though it tastes like that,…..

  202. 202.

    No One You Know

    June 28, 2023 at 7:37 pm

    @Martin: How would that be different from a lifetime vacation, then?

     

    @Ksmiami: Fuck yeah. It’s discouraging to be looking for a job with such an allegedly hot market while clients keep stalling out or outright canceling projects. I’ve got a betting pool on how many staff aug and consulting firms are stringing people along. You don’t qualify for unemployment of they don’t let you go, you don’t qualify if you quit, and your bills don’t stop because there’s a recession “about to happen. “

  203. 203.

    Gvg

    June 28, 2023 at 7:40 pm

    @Betty Cracker: in recent years, bedding has come with tags that say bottom, top or side. It is SO much easier. Don’t know why they didn’t do that decades ago. I hope it wasn’t just bed bath and beyond brands.

  204. 204.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    June 28, 2023 at 7:43 pm

    Devil’s Island

  205. 205.

    Geminid

    June 28, 2023 at 8:02 pm

    @Chris Johnson: I agree that Trump can’t win next year. But expressing the belief, or fear, that he can win isn’t carrying water for anyone. Trump traumatized the hell out of a lot of people, and it’s no wonder they are fearful.

  206. 206.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 28, 2023 at 8:05 pm

    BREAKING: Federal judge — appointed by Trump — rules that Tennessee’s ban on gender-affirming medical care for minors is likely unconstitutional, issues statewide injunction, the second such ruling TODAY. More to come at Law Dork: https://lawdork.com

  207. 207.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 28, 2023 at 8:14 pm

    Julian Sands, Star of ‘A Room With a View,’ Died in January Hiking Accident, Authorities Confirm
    Human remains found Saturday near Mount Baldy were identified as those of the British actor, 65, who had been missing since January.

  208. 208.

    Jackie

    June 28, 2023 at 8:21 pm

    @UncleEbeneezer: The Red States are tumbling down in rapid order, aren’t they! Between this and their 6 weeks abortion laws, the southern states (and red states in general) are getting spanked by the judges!👍🏻

  209. 209.

    UncleEbeneezer

    June 28, 2023 at 8:24 pm

    @Jackie: Yup.  And I doubt SCOTUS is gonna try and step in to save these ridiculous, and obviously unconstitutional bans.  I mean, never say never, but I’d be very surprised.

  210. 210.

    BC in Illinois

    June 28, 2023 at 8:39 pm

    @Jackie:

    I say wherever he ends up NO GOLF COURSES allowed. That’s probably his idea of prison.

    I suggest that he be in a place with no wifi, but access to visitors (see who wants to come!), and a superb library.

    See how he likes that.

  211. 211.

    Betty Cracker

    June 28, 2023 at 8:47 pm

    @Geminid: Thank you.

  212. 212.

    brantl

    June 28, 2023 at 9:40 pm

    @Ken:  Well, sure!

  213. 213.

    Elizabelle

    June 28, 2023 at 9:44 pm

    The trajectory:  Bravado to Desperado to Incommunicado.

  214. 214.

    Another Scott

    June 28, 2023 at 10:15 pm

    @Jackie:
    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: @BC in Illinois:

    I’d be pleased as punch if he were sent to MDC Guaynabo. Justice, and all that.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

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