At a No Labels event in New Hampshire, Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) says he “hasn’t made decision” on a 2024 independent run but rejects the idea he’d be a spoiler.
"I’ve never been in any race I’ve ever spoiled, I’ve been in races to win. And if I get in a race, I’m gonna win." pic.twitter.com/SYGJ9JXC6Y
— The Recount (@therecount) July 17, 2023
Joe Manchin can’t resist media attention any more than I can resist potato chips, and this wouldn’t be the first time he traded a short-term dopamine hit for a long-term political survival problem. But I can’t see Manchin actually committing to a No Labels run — he’d torch whatever credibility (bankability) he still has, in return for… what? An excuse not to contest his Senate seat with Jim Justice?
Here in NH, Joe Manchin says he'll decide on No Labels presidential run "next year," suggesting he's "not taking anything off the table" despite concerns of national Dems that his 3rd-party run could boost Trump back into WH.
"Let’s see what happens." https://t.co/ohEOoOFpPS
— Vaughn Hillyard (@VaughnHillyard) July 17, 2023
No Labels is absolutely ‘serious’ (about collecting all the moneys, from (mostly deluded) big and small donors, to throw the 2024 election to the GOP. Joe Manchin, I get the feeling, is just enjoying whatever spotlight he can trap. The media is only too happy to have another Dems in disarray! story for their blessedly shrinking files of same…
No Labels is taking another new, notable step advancing toward a potential third-party presidential bid in 2024, organizing a campaign-style event in New Hampshire on Monday featuring Democratic Sen. Joe Manchin.
The move comes as the Washington-based advocacy organization looks to recruit a Democrat and a Republican to form a bipartisan presidential ticket in 2024 — a prospect that could send an unpredictable jolt through the 2024 presidential race, which as of now is trending toward a rematch between President Joe Biden and former President Donald Trump.
No Labels’ founder and CEO, Nancy Jacobson, told NBC News that No Labels is near its fundraising goal of $70 million, which will go toward its efforts to gain ballot access for its would-be presidential ticket in all 50 states. No Labels is scheduled to hold a convention next April in Dallas, where it’ll formally nominate its presidential ticket.
Manchin continued to leave open the door to a third-party presidential run with No Labels, repeatedly declining to rule it out in an interview with NBC News…
Manchin wasn’t the only party-bucking politician on the trail Monday: Republican Jon Huntsman, the former U.S. ambassador to China and Utah governor, also joined Manchin in New Hampshire. Ahead of their trip, No Labels heralded the pair as the headliners of its “Common Sense Townhall” Monday night at Saint Anselm College, a common waypoint for presidential contenders. The two spoke earlier at a diner in Manchester to a group of guests who received private invitations.
Huntsman, who sought the 2012 GOP presidential nomination, told NBC News he has “no plans at this point” to run on a third-party ticket in 2024.
No Labels’ leaders, including former Sen. Joe Lieberman of Connecticut, a Democrat-turned-independent, and former North Carolina Gov. Pat McCrory, a Republican, continue to remain mum about possible candidates, though two sources familiar with the group’s deliberations told NBC News that the ticket could include individuals who have not previously been elected to public office…
Huntsman, I can’t even guess about his intentions. I’m prone to suspicion of generationally wealthy Mormon politicians, but there’s always the chance Huntsman is more of a George Romney than a sociopath like Willard Romney? (In which case, he won’t take the No Labels bait, of course.)
Joe Manchin loves power. If he runs for president next year on a third party ticket, he'll give up all his power and potentially hand the election to Donald Trump. So why would he risk it all on a vanity run? My latest article:https://t.co/5GNlWllJRc
— Jeremy Fassler (@J_fassler) July 13, 2023
… Historian Richard Hofstadter wrote that third parties are like bees: once they sting, they die. No Labels could hardly find a more dangerous stinger than Joe Manchin, whose barb resembles that of a hornet’s more than a honeybee’s…
Manchin or no, whoever No Labels runs will lose. But third parties and their standard bearers, at least in the 21st century, have less interest in building lasting political coalitions than in harming major party candidates, sometimes with seismic impacts. If Gary Sellers, a former “Nader Raider” is to be believed, Ralph Nader ran for president in 2000 “because Gore wouldn’t return his phone calls.” While Nader is not solely responsible for costing Gore the presidency, he made enough of an impact that politicians with whom he had worked to pass consumer protection laws gave him the cold shoulder. “Ralph Nader is not going to be welcome anywhere,” then-Senator Biden said after the election.
This makes Manchin’s flirtation with No Labels so confounding. Whether or not he retains his Senate seat, by throwing the presidency to a Republican, his name, like Nader’s, will be mud in Washington — so why would a man so addicted to power be willing to trade it all away? To extend Hofstadter’s analogy, Manchin would be trading his hornet’s barb for a honeybee’s: once he stings, he’ll die.
Fundraising pitch? https://t.co/URQ1yDYxOE
— Eric Kleefeld (becoming a parody of myself) (@EricKleefeld) July 13, 2023
Jackie
I look forward to not needing Manchin’s vote to pass bills! His ego is on par with TIFG.😡
OMG, I beat Baud!
Jackie
I posted on the earlier, but likely dead thread, that today marks John Lewis’ death six years ago.
Today, more than ever, we need to lead by his example to make good trouble.
bbleh
As noted many times previously, Manchin’s so certainly gonna lose to Justice that he’s looking around for his next gig, and in that situation any publicity is good publicity.
Rumor a while ago was that he might go for Gov again. Maybe still will; I dunno. But “potential Presidential candidate” would be a useful thing to throw around in a contest against some currently near-unknown state pol.
And as to “No Labels,” why not just call it “No Positions” and be done? “We’re open to everything, and we’re for all the good stuff — though not too much of it — and for sure none of the bad stuff!” Also cross the aisle, work together, stop bickering, solve problems, and get all this icky politics out of politics
(Also how is Joe Lieberman still alive? What have we done wrong, O Lord? Him and Kissinger …?)
Carlo Graziani
It doesn’t seem confounding at all to me. These are the Democratic Leadership Council people from the 90s. They are still on the same neo-liberal dipshit crack, 25 years after it stopped making any sense at all. They don’t want to be Republicans, but they hate that they’ve lost control of Democratic Party policy primacy, and they think they can use an electoral squeeze play to move the party back to what they conceive of as the “center,” where the Liebermans and Manchins make the rules.
I doubt that they really have any intention of standing up a candidate for longer than the first few primaries, if that. It’s just a pressure tactic to roll back hippy power in the Democratic party. In a sense, they are in a similar predicament to the Never Trumper Republicans (*): the Democratic base voters by-and-large wouldn’t piss down their throats if their hearts were on fire, but they still think they ought to be in charge of the party if they pay enough. They’re going to find out that’s not how it works, just like the Trump “alternatives” did, and still are.
(*) Not a moral or policy equivalence, just an analogous insoluble conundrum.
Hoppie
Joe not gonna run. Duh. He ain’t, you know, stupid.
HumboldtBlue
Trevor Noah is an interesting dude.
Dichotomy of fame
Ken
I assume “style” is being used here as in the food industry, where “X style” means “having a few of the same ingredients, but definitely not genuine X”.
Elizabelle
@Jackie: Six years. That has gone so quickly.
What a good man. Always a pleasure to think of John Lewis and good trouble.
danielx
Hey, maybe Manchin thinks TFG will appoint him to a cabinet secretary position if he splits the ticket and TFG wins. Maybe Secretary of Commerce, which would provide plenty of opportunities for graft under a second TFG administration plus plenty of opportunities to bust union balls, figuratively speaking – which is a big thing for WV pols if I recall correctly. Win-win, what’s not to like?
Depending, of course, on the memory and gratitude of Donald Trump, the which are worthless and nonexistent.
Geminid
@Hoppie: I think you may be right. The Senate race looks unwinnable. A poll by the East Carolina U. Center for Survey Research showed Governor Justice leading Manchin 54 to 34%. They are known quantities in West Virginia, and it’s hard to see how Manchin can turn those numbers around.
I don’t see a 3rd party run appealing to Manchin, even though he’s teasing one. Manchin gets plenty of media attention as a Senator, and it’s an easy, comfortable job to ride out. Then he can stick around DC as a sort of super-lobbyist. I read that ex-Senators retain Senate floor privileges.
And I think Manchin is aware that a 3rd party run might put Trump back in the White House. Manchin voted to convict Trump in both impeachment trials even though it probably hurt him with his constituents. I can’t see why he’d want to help Trump now.
Now, Kysten Sinema might run for No Labels, and she’d be a good fit for a party without principles. But that’s a whole ‘nother story.
Leto
National Security Council Director of Strategic Communications John F. Kirby explaining how GOP grandstanding is hurting national security.
(turn sound on in the top right hand corner of the gif)
Brachiator
Damn. Some media people have access to some freaking powerful psychedelics.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
as Mo (?) Udall observed, once you get bit by the bug of presidential ambition, the only cure is embalming fluid
He wouldn’t be the first scion of wealth and influence, and several religions, to try to work out his daddy issues by running for President, wouldn’t even be the first one to succeed, though in Huntsman’s case, I think that’s vanishingly unlikely
Jackie
@Elizabelle: I’ve been corrected: Three yrs ago, Lewis died 2020. That seems impossible! So much has gone haywire for America in only such a short time. Excepting Biden getting elected and Dems winning the Senate, it’s scary to think of what America would look like today…
mrmoshpotato
More news of fuckery. I should start Cave of Bones (Netflix).
VOR
Hmm, Manchin’s Senate term is up for re-election in 2024. Could he theoretically pull a Lieberman and run for both Senate from WV and President at the same time?
(Note: In 2000 Joe Lieberman was Al Gore’s VP candidate. He simultaneously ran for re-election to the Senate from Connecticut and as VP.)
Manchin would be 77 years old in January 2025. He’s not much younger than Trump or Biden.
Brachiator
@HumboldtBlue:
Some very perceptive comments from, yep, an interesting dude. Thanks for the link.
Ohio Mom
@HumboldtBlue: I miss seeing him on the Daily Show. I get why he needed to move on though.
mrmoshpotato
@mrmoshpotato: “Why is it that all these bones are here?”
Mai Naem mobileI
Manchin’s probably trying to get something from Biden for agreeing not to run. An appointment to run something. Something for the fossil fuel industry or his daughter’s industry. The extra attention is just something to savor. I used to think Huntsman was an old school GOPr. Now I’ve seen him in the July 4th photo with the GOP senators and I don’t see the old school GOP coming back anytime soon.
Manyakitty
@Mai Naem mobileI: ugh, Huntsman was on that July 4th trip to Russia, too? Ick.
Kent
What kind of salary cut is Nancy Jacobson taking from that $70 million of No Labels cash? That is the real grift here folks. She and her douchebag husband are no different from Trump in that regard. It is all about the grift.
She knows they have zero chance of winning anything and doesn’t care about spoiler effects because it is all about the grift. I don’t think she cares who win or what effect they will have. It is just grift grift grift.
The amoral fucks
Brachiator
@Mai Naem mobileI:
If so, Manchin is getting greedy. Biden has given Manchin favors for his support a number of times already, most recently I think during the debt ceiling standoff.
HumboldtBlue
@Mai Naem mobileI:
That makes a lot of sense.
Leto
I don’t know how this screwed up, but take two: National Security Council Director of Strategic Communications John F. Kirby explaining how GOP grandstanding is hurting national security.
frosty
@HumboldtBlue: His autobiography (Born a Crime) is a great read.
HumboldtBlue
@frosty:
Indeed.
I was given that book as a gift, hell… five years ago now?
West of the Rockies
Some big name pundits were saying last week that 1/6 indictments for the big fish were possibly upon us…
I want my indictments, damnit!
Kay
@Leto:
Thank you. I think serve with “dignity and respect” are really important words in this context and I’m glad he presented it that way.
Compare to Cotton’s sneering “abortion tourism” nasty shot at women – wagging his finger at them. Ugh. Just insufferable.
Ruckus
Joe Manchin
As stated above he’s 77. He’s as reliable as a 58 Nash Rambler with 400,00 miles on the clock. Seems to think far more of himself than many, many other people do. Oh well, he’s better than his WV counterpart. I’m not sure that’s saying a lot….
Leto
@Kay: I found his full remarks on this here on C-SPAN. It really is about dignity and respect. Everything he’s saying there is what was told to me when I came in, and what I told my troops when I was leading. This shit that the Cotton’s and Hawley’s are trying to foist on us is just wholly incompatible with service. Absolutely fuck them forever and ever.
Mai Naem mobileI
@Manyakitty: TFG appointed Huntsman to be ambassador to Russia which is why he was there(ETTD). It just seems like the others all seemed compromised after they came back so why not Huntsman? Also the Huntsman company does business in Russia because they use oil products and they haven’t pulled out during the Ukraine Invasion.
sab
@Manyakitty: I had not known that about Huntsman. Yikes.
I met my husband in line for voting in 2000. I could not stand Lieberman. 300 million Americans to choose from and Gore chose Joe Lieberman as his VP. I really had to hold my nose to vote for Gore. Soon to be husband talked me down. ” Gore is bad, but Bush will be appalling.” He was right. And 300 million Americans to choose from and he chose Cheney.
SpaceUnit
Among Democrats Manchin is as about as popular as toenail fungus. The fucker will will peel away more Republicans than Dems. Go for it asshole.
David Chop
FTFY
Seriously. Twitter can’t die fast enough, yet BJ is chock-a-block full of Twitter links. Please stop.
Anne Laurie
@David Chop: As soon as there’s an alternative that will provide me with the same information at a comparable speed, I will, believe me!
mrmoshpotato
@West of the Rockies:
Is MTV included or an extra?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Betty Cracker
@Anne Laurie: It seems like if one of Twitter’s would-be successors could solve the embed issue, they’d eliminate a sticking point. I don’t pretend to know how this stuff works, but Instagram posts have been embeddable across multiple platforms for years, so maybe Threads will be the ultimate Twitter slayer? ETA: I’m not sure Threads is even a desktop option now — I think they rolled out mobile only.
Tony Jay
@Carlo Graziani:
You could change a few names in your comment and describe the UK’s Labour Party to a tee. The difference here being that the ‘neoliberal dipshit crank’ faction of Labour had such a grip on the Party’s bureaucracy and incumbent MP population that, when the membership voted to leave all that crap behind by electing a genuine democratic socialist to the leadership, they were in a position to ratfuck the Party on behalf of the Tories for two entire general elections.
Now that faction is back in charge and conducting an ideological pogrom of such spiteful brutality that even the normally supportive organs of (British) Liberal Centrism are ever so politely suggesting that they may be in danger of triggering a vote famine amongst its reliable electoral base.
But they won’t stop. The Labour Party is a vehicle for their social and financial advancement, and if the vehicle runs out of fuel they’ll sell it off for parts rather than let a smelly Trot back behind the wheel.
WereBear
Which mirrors the Nazi party, which prized loyalty above all. It gives marginally competent people outsized power, because loyalty over competence means even a fool can climb.
Which is all a fool thinks about.
oatler
ABC gave No Labels an extravagant amount of coverage on Sunday, including a long interview with Lieberman.
WereBear
@oatler: They would always rather NOT cover politics these days.
🐾BillinGlendaleCA
The moded camera saga has concluded. I picked up the camera this afternoon and took some test shots before work and during my dinner break. After work I tested it out at night, really good quality photos. I’ll shoot somewhere dark tomorrow night and see how it does there. I’m anticipating a learning curve with both shooting and processing.
WereBear
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA: Nothing like a good camera saga :) May your light always be perfect.
Betty Cracker
@Tony Jay: How do you see it playing out long term? Is there a scenario where the Starmerites overplay their hand and are ousted?
Baud
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA:
👍
mrmoshpotato
@🐾BillinGlendaleCA SEGA!
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
… and I say black lung today, black lung tomorrow, black lung forever!
Tony Jay
@WereBear: Authoritarians with victim complexes and a parvenu’s lust for elite ‘respect’. But remember, it’s the dirty Lefties who are the National SOCIALISTS (wink wink).
@Betty Cracker: They’ll almost certainly win this election, or at the very least come out of it the largest single party. The Tories have simply fucked up so badly and Rishi Sunak if far too weak and ephemeral a fraud to win back any support. But they’re making a massive and entirely typical mistake in deluding themselves that it’s their hard rightward tilt that has given them consistent 20 leads in the polls. That’s entirely the work of Flobalob Johnson, Lettuce Truss and the current Prime Miniature.
Not to get too deep in the weeds I can see the Labour Right pushing ahead with their adoption of the Tory Party platform of 2010/15 and taking for granted that the Left’s bedrock support will hold their noses and pull the lever for the Pale Blue Meanies just to get rid of this Nat-C version of the Conservative Party. They may win that bet. This time around. But it’s worth remembering that MIliband’s Labour (a considerably less right-wing entity than Starmer’s cult) lost a shit-ton of votes and an election back in 2015 because it refused to oppose horrible Tory policies.
Hand on heart, enough people who despise Starmer’s Z-list Blair tribute act will still vote for them, they’ll get a majority, declare that this proves once and for all the toxicity of anything even vaguely ‘leftish’ and spend five years chasing the ‘centre right majority’, enacting deeper austerity and expanding privatisation while the Tories retool as a fully neo-fascist outfit. The Labour Party will split, the Nu-Labs will suffer a massive defeat in 2029 and by 2030 we’ll all be caged up in Aspiration Camps run by Serco making our thrice daily loyalty oaths to Prime Minister Badenoch.
And after all that, they’ll still be insisting it’s all the Left’s fault for not clapping hard enough.
mrmoshpotato
@Tony Jay:
Sir. Any lack of clapping, anywhere in the world, is now the fault of JEB! Bitch’s lame ass.
I thought this was universally known.
Shalimar
@David Chop: If you don’t like the posts with the Twitter links, you can skip them. Some of the rest of us value the curation so please do not take that away from us without a replacement.
Betty Cracker
@Tony Jay: Well, that’s bleak. :(
Betty Cracker
Well look at this — potential voters blaming the right people: (The Hill)
Now they need to show up and kick the people who screwed them out of office.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
So only 14 percent are Republican. Good to know.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: My first thought was only 14% are irretrievably stupid, but same-same.
RevRick
@SpaceUnit: I’m afraid not. Trump’s voters are hard core in his camp. To win elections Democrats need to capture the votes of self-identified moderates. That’s the pool No Labels will be fishing in.
Last election, Biden won by 4%, but it was the 45,000 votes in Arizona, Georgia, and Wisconsin that decided the outcome.
Tony Jay
@mrmoshpotato:
Is that what we’re calling Ron De Ofcasey these days? I missed another meeting, didn’t I?
@Betty Cracker:
It is, yes. But that’s what you get when forty years of circle-jerking Thatcherism come home to roost and doing anything about it would mean some extremely solipsistic people admitting that maybe, just maybe, they’ve been wrong about what constitutes ‘grown up politics’.
The Labour Right said no, entered a short-term Coalition of Lies with the Tories and the Media, and here we are.
What’s even worse, I lost my personal memory stick with ALL of my writing on it. Politics is politics, but THAT’S a fricken tragedy.
Baud
@Tony Jay:
Ouch. That sucks.
Betty Cracker
@Tony Jay: Holy shit, that’s terrible!
Tony Jay
@Betty Cracker: And if those 47% who blame the SC transfer that blame to the MAGOPs who put the wingnut majority on it, you’re looking at 85% of Teh Yoot angry and ready to pop a vote in someone’s ass.
What happened to the missing 1% though? Who are they blaming?
Baud
@RevRick:
They’re going for a pincer move. Cornell West of the left and No Labels on the right.
Tony Jay
@Baud:
@Betty Cracker:
Yeah, it’s a sickener, but lesson learnt. Redundancy, people! Multiple redundancy! Back-ups! Etc.
Baud
@Tony Jay:
Relatedly, change your password from “password” to something else.
Tony Jay
@Baud:
But having “password” as a password is genius! No one thinks to put the speech marks around it.
Oh… they will now, won’t they?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Homilies to an abstract notion of compromise, devoid of any substance.
Also known as bipartisanship in America.
JWR
@Geminid: Monday afternoon’s Background Briefing mentioned Sinema as a possible No Labels standard bearer, though I wasn’t paying close enough attention to know if their laughter at the first mention of her name continued throughout:
Princess
My optimistic theory is that Manchin has no intention of running for No Labels but is doing this vocal flirting as a way of performing Democrat-hate to boost his Senate chances. “I may be running on the DEm line but really I’m an independent.” I’d still rather have him than a Republican in the seat.
satby
@David Chop: @Anne Laurie: cool, a new (to me) Twitter scold.
This, by Margaret Sullivan, is a review of Threads that also touched on why so many are still using Twitter:
Baud
@satby:
If I had to guess, I think that Threads will eventually replace Twitter unless Musk sells Twitter or takes a hands off approach and puts someone competent in charge.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
Really, the only way he could make a clearer statement he won’t run is to simply say “I won’t run.”
I wish he’d do that.
Matt McIrvin
Maybe he’s betting that the people among whom “his name will be mud” will be dead or in prison.
Sean
@SpaceUnit: it’s not the democrats it’s the independents. In close races in PA, WI, NV, AZ, etc if we lose 10-15k votes in the middle we could easily lose the state. The margins were small in 2020. So sure dems won’t vote for Manchin but independent, single issue “both sides” voters very well may.
EarthWindFire
@WereBear: Not the politics we have away. If there’s anyone dying for the return of the DLC, it’s the MSM.
sdhays
Yeah, my guess is that after you follow all of the expenditures, their cut works out to about $69 million.
WaterGirl
@Tony Jay:
So sorry. I would be inconsolable if that happened to me.
WaterGirl
While I was picking up my lunch yesterday, I saw this banner on the TV:
It’s hard to argue with that.
satby
@Baud: I hope not, though since I have two of Zuck’s three big apps I shouldn’t delude myself that staying off it improves my privacy a smidge. But the ones I do have show it’ll just be another stream of mostly ads, so for now nope.
evodevo
@sab:
Well, to be fair, Cheney literally chose himself…he was in charge of the VP search committee, and couldn’t fine anyone more qualified than The Dick LOLOL and Bush was too weak to override him…
sdhays
@Baud: Musk won’t sell Twitter until it’s far, far too late, and he’ll never put someone competent in charge, because he’ll always be in charge no matter who holds what title. He had his “buy Twitter” tantrum because it’s his favorite toy and it wasn’t being fascist enough for his taste, and then he was forced to actually buy it because he’s very stupid and allowed his tantrum to go too far.
Now he has it, he will never drop it because he would sell it for pennies on the dollar for what he paid in the first place, it would be humiliating, and he would lose control of his favorite toy. His plan now is to spin gold out of poop with his new generative AI company and Twitter synergy. Maybe he’ll create some value there, although he’d better hurry before a rival gets the right mix of features and stability to allow an extinction-level mass migration away.
mrmoshpotato
@WaterGirl: Hahaha! So true.
opiejeanne
@Tony Jay: It’s not Ron de Santis, he’s talking about Jeb Bush, the Bush brother that W shoved aside to run for President, and who tried to run in 2016. At an event where he gave a speech, the crowd response was so tepid that he was caught saying “please clap”.
Tony Jay
@WaterGirl: #
It’s a lesson learned. Granted, I’ll have to start the novel again, but that’s what second drafts are for.
I’m most gutted to have lost all the things I’ve written on BJ. I was quite proud of some of those insults. 8-)
Tony Jay
@opiejeanne:
Ah. I thought he was doing a shout-out to JEB’s humiliating dose of the non-claps as a slap at RoDS’ own humiliating inability to made anyone want to vote for him.
opiejeanne
@Tony Jay: oh. maybe he was.
Ascap_scab
Conspiracy alert:
Manchin is a DNC plant to quickly deplete the No Lables $70M cash horde (demand private jets and caviar at every meal) and burnish his “independent” cred. He will use burner phones to communicate with Biden HQ to plan the best way to sabotage the NL effort, then drop out just prior to the New Hampshire primary leaving Huntsman to hold the bag.
A guy can dream.