I’m not particularly interested in what the nay-sayers have to say at this point; it’s clear that they will never be satisfied.
What I am hoping to hear is what serious people have to say about it. I have 2 more days of crazy work ahead – just today and Thursday – so I can’t really watch or listen or read for myself. I tried listening to the indictment as I fell asleep last night – who thought Ali Veslhi had a voice good enough to be the one to read the indictments??? Terrible choice!
Anyway, I’m selfishly hoping you guys can filter the best of the smart takes and share them here, and share your smart takes, as well!
What are the best takes on yesterdays J6 indictment that you’ve heard? What was it and where did you hear it?
I like the one in the title. I have heard it before and I heard it again last night, but I have no idea where I first heard it or who said it.
Anyway, I plan to sneak back and read this thread 5 or 10 or 15 comments at a time – for a treat and some information throughout the day. I can’t wait for Friday!
Low Key Swagger
I’ve seen a number of hot takes from people i respect, but for me the line of the day was “political talk on the internet is like a book club meeting where no one has read the book.” Think it was Melber.
Baud
You come at the USA, you best not miss. 🇺🇲
OzarkHillbilly
Nothing to add but I will repeat:
Baud
@Low Key Swagger:
I like that. Good on Ari.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Rachel Maddow said she was struck by the violence in Trump’s plans–not just the invasion of the capital but in things like Jeff Clark saying that if they kept Trump in power and people took to the streets in protest, they could invoke the Insurrection Act and sic the military on the citizenry. Of course, Trump is still threatening violence, trying to call his people to inflict harm on those prosecuting him and saying that there will be riots if he’s convicted.
Also, I have a question for the lawyers among us. Mr DAW says he read that the co-conspirators listed yesterday won’t serve as defense witnesses because if they do, they’re waiving their 5th amendment rights against self-incrimination. Is that true?
NotMax
Time, I guess, to start contemplating a possble NYC meet-up.
Will be traveling there from the 22nd through September 6th. First weekend is completely taken up for me with a fershslugginer wedding, however the next (Labor Day holiday) weekend is wide open. Looking for preferences of dates/times among September 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th and also suggestions regarding a venue.
Ken
I thought “It’s all just conspiracy shit beamed down from the mothership” was a pretty smart take, and clearly someone agreed since it’s already in the rotating tags. But can we count it, when it was made by a Trump advisor while the insurrection was being planned?
Also, it’s purely a coincidence because of the lead times for comics publication, but today’s Blondie is a smart take, in certain social situations.
Greg
Reading it, it confirms my thoughts soon after the attempt. Glad that my thoughts were not totally wrong.
https://twitter.com/newtons_third/status/1347970018009604098?s=20
UncleEbeneezer
Not a 1/6 analysis/take but a general one: Justice is the process, not the result. Justice being served is a defendant being able to plead their case in a court of law with all the legal protections they are entitled to, and then a jury decides if the govt has proved the crime beyond a reasonable doubt. Then Appeals Courts decide if everything was kosher. That is what Justice looks like, not “did person X go to prison or not?”
Also shared this in another thread but Just Security put together a handy PDF of the Indictment that adds names for the Co-Conspirators for easier reading.
Haven’t listened to any deep dive analysis of the Indictment yet, but there will be several out today (LegalAF, DailyBeans, CleanupOnAisle45, Talking Feds etc.) that should be good. I’ll try and remember to drop them here, later.
Frankensteinbeck
Someone on MSNBC said that the way these indictments are structured, the only viable defense strategies would require Trump to take the witness stand – which he absolutely will not do, because he will perjure himself repeatedly and obviously. He can’t help himself. It’s who he is. As such, his defense strategies are hamstrung from the start.
I really hope that analysis is accurate.
Betty Cracker
@Low Key Swagger: That’s a great take! Are you sure it was Melber? ;-)
Ken
@Frankensteinbeck: Entrapment by estoppel!
(I have no idea what that means but apparently the Trump legal team was whining about it a few days ago. Something about not being allowed to contradict your previous legal testimony? Which I can see would be a problem if they need to put Trump on the stand.)
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
IANAL, but whether they can testify without waiving 5th amendment rights depends on whether they’ve been granted immunity. So it depends whether they have (or will) decide to provide evidence in exchange for immunity, and whether the prosecution decides their testimony is worth giving them immunity from prosecution. However, from the sounds of the indictment, their testimony isn’t required for conviction.
Roger Moore
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
I think in that respect the Trumpites were being realistic. A non-violent coup was never a realistic option. Even if they had been able to keep Trump in power through clever legal maneuvering rather than direct violence, there was no way voters were going to accept it quietly. A second Trump term in defiance of the voters’ will was always going to require massive state violence.
luc
Slightly off-topic, but a great article: On the connection of wellness/ alternative health to spread of right-wing conspiracies. https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2023/aug/02/everything-youve-been-told-is-a-lie-inside-the-wellness-to-facism-pipeline
Mai Naem mobileI
The total charges Jack Smith has brought in his two cases against TFG add up to 45.
Baud
I was struck by the details around what they did to pressure Pence, which I think is really the only new information for people who have been paying attention.
mvr
@Dorothy A. Winsor: I’m not a lawyer but I used to work for one specializing in criminal law. Witnesses are subject to cross examination when they give testimony. If they took the fifth while under cross examination their whole testimony might well be stricken and the jury told to disregard it.
There is a bit of an asymmetry about this with respect to whether they are a defense or prosecution witness. If the person took the 5th and was a witness against the defendant the defendant’s right to confront and cross examine their accusers would be implicated. So in that kind of case it would for sure be stricken if the defendant moved to strike it. The government doesn’t have a similar right since they are not being accused of a crime. So I’m not sure whether it would be mandatory that the testimony be stricken if the prosecution moved to strike it when it is a defense witness who takes the 5th in response to some question or other.
Their testifying would not be a blanket waiver of their right against self-incrimination for all times and all places. A person can take the 5th at any point in their testimony/interrogation so long as I am still in legal jeopardy. People often take the 5th with respect to certain questions but not others for example in testimony to congress or a grand jury. But you can force them to testify by giving them immunity so that they are no longer in legal jeopardy and hence not being forced to give testimony against themselves when they talk.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
Kay
I thought J6 was really bad at the time but even I am a little taken aback at how the fraudulent electors gambit was an actual plan.
A lot of things had to go right for us to have dodged this bullet – all they needed was one judge in one state to violate his/her oath and go to bat for them and THEN all we would need was one legit media source “just asking questions” about the fraud allegations and the anti democratic insurrectionists would have pried the door open just a crack. They didn’t get it open that crack but reading the indictment they were dead serious about a coup.
Credit where credit is due- I DO think media did a good job during the attempted coup, beginning on election night resisting the urge to “both sides” this. Had they given in to their penchant to defer to Republicans it would have been perhaps fatal.
But wow. Whew. Close one.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Roger Moore:
The ugly truth.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
Yes, it was Ari Melber. I heard it live. He did say, “Sometimes political talk [or politics] on the Internet . . .”
LAO
@Dorothy A. Winsor: IMO, the government would never grant the unindicted co-conspirators immunity to testify on behalf of a defendant. It is clear to me, as a federal defense attorney, that the government doesn’t need these witnesses and that the unindicted co-conspirators will not remain unindicted for long. I expect separate indictments to follow.
TaMara
Anyone know why Ginny Thomas seems to be trending in regards to all of this? Has there been some new evidence, more incriminating than we’ve already been made aware of?
Also, glad to see asshole John Eastman going through some things.
Chris
@Kay:
My real concern is that the trend in recent history is “Republicans do something so outrageous that even the people who usually run interference for them are caught off-guard and side with the law instead of the party. Some house cleaning later, the same thing happens again, and now everybody’s on the same page.”
See also, the reactions to Watergate versus the reactions to Iran-contra a little over a decade later.
dmsilev
@LAO: Any guesses on why the co-conspirators weren’t indicted yesterday? I’ve heard some speculation that it was to separate the trials, cutting off one strategy that Trump uses for delays. Is that plausible?
Baud
@rikyrah:
Good morning.
jonas
Regardless if Trump testifies in his own defense or not, he is daily waiving his right to remain silent with his unhinged, all-caps rants on Truth Social wherein he basically admits to all the crimes and then says that it was all perfectly beautiful and legal. His lawyers are no doubt pulling their collective hair out, but as long as the rube donor slush fund keeps up with their $1000/hr billings, they’re just along for the crazy ride.
UncleEbeneezer
Elizabeth De La Vega (former Fed Prosecutor):
LAO
@mvr: I think that you’re mostly correct. From a real world perspective, when a defense witness invokes the 5th amendment, it may not render their testimony on direct invalid but it certainly destroys their credibility with a jury.
Dangerman
I put on some hip gaiters and wandered over to The Other Side (I mean The Right, not like a woo woo woo John Edward kinda way) to see what they are saying …
… and I’m trying to be kind here …
… but those amoral dumbfucks have gone over the edge. Like, they are gone. Way gone. Irrecoverable gone.
The only way Trump isn’t on the Top Line in 2024 is he’s dead. Which isn’t what I want. I want him to live a long life. In jail.
And the asshole could win from jail. Because you know they will be cheating their asses off to get The One sprung. First act is he pardons himself. Second act is KFC. Third, well, sorry Melania.
What a fucking mess.
dmsilev
@TaMara: I think there are some people speculating that she is un-indicted co-conspirator #6, the “political consultant”, but there wasn’t really any direct evidence. Seemed a bit tenuous to me, but given the bizarre twists and turns that we’ve all been living through over the last several years, I’m not going to rule it out.
KayInMD (formerly Kay (not the front-pager))
@Greg: Pretty spot on. I’d add that another factor that saved the day was the absence of counter-demonstrators. Their absence made clear exactly who was at fault, and prevented the polarized violence that would have been the predicate for imposing the Insurrection Act.
Kay
I also believe we have to rethink “coup” – the sort of narrow view that it must involve an iron clad plan that will work perfectly with “tanks” or whatever is probably not how these things actually come about. I think it’s just as likely it’s a bunch of authroitarian sleazy fucking idiots who see an opening and don’t plan anything further than 5 minutes out. They needed a judge or Pence or mainstream media buying the allegations. Any of those three happening would have energized them and they would just move to the next step.
Baud
@TaMara:
Wishful thinking, probably.
Chief Oshkosh
@Kay:
Me too. Also, I was taken aback at the number of people who not only were involved in at least part of the plane, but who knew parts or all of the rest of the plan. Those people should be investigated/indicted/tried/quartered, too. They certainly shouldn’t remain with their hands on the levers of power anywhere.
zhena gogolia
@Low Key Swagger: raven said that was Ari Melber last night.
The post headline is something I think I’ve seen Adam say, although he didn’t claim authorship.
LAO
@dmsilev: absolutely plausible. Moreover, the motion practice surrounding lawyer/defendants is time consuming.
Jackie
WARNING! Swallow before reading!
Suggestion by TIFG attorney: Move the J6 trial to….
West Virginia.
“On CBS, an attorney representing the former president suggested to senior White House Correspondent Ed O’Keefe on Wednesday morning that West Virginia is in “close proximity” to the scene of the alleged crime — even though D.C. is actually where January 6 happened and the courhouse where it would take place directly overlooks the Capitol — and went on to suggest that West Virginia is “much more diverse” than D.C.”
NotMax
@dmsilev
Entirely plausible.
jonas
(With apologies to Sondheim and Bernstein.)
What a day, what a day, for an auto-da-bray.
mvr
One thing recognize is that an indictment gives the government’s theory of the case and a good lawyer will try to put in it only what they can prove. But it is not itself evidence. So while one can read the indictment and come away with the thought that the defendant is toast, it isn’t always so. A witness might not say what they expect, die or go missing, or have their credibility undermined.
Relatedly, I think we are getting more detail in these indictments because they involve conspiracy. With conspiracy the crime is agreeing with the co-conspirators to do your bit along with them to do something illegal. But generally conspiracy indictments list the overt acts taken by the conspirators in furtherance of the conspiracy. So we’re getting lots of detail here. If this were a simple murder, the indictment would just say on such and such a date Donald Trump intentionally shot and killed so and so at such and such a location. We would not get much more detail and hence we would not have as good a sense of the relevant evidence that would come out at trial. So a conspiracy indictment will generally look more supported by evidence than a simple non-conspiracy indictment.
Which is not to say that I don’t think he’s guilty as Hell. I got to watch or listen to recordings of him doing much of this, often in public. But it is to say that things can happen that change the trajectory.
WaterGirl
@Baud: I thought it was interesting to find out that on Jan 5 when Pence told Trump NO, that Trump said he was going to have to call out Pence publicly, and that’s when Pence’s chief of staff alerted the secret service.
So Pence knew in no uncertain terms on Jan 5 that he was in danger, and still the fucking coward won’t call out Trump.
Kay
@Chris:
I don’t think we can head that off. You just do the next right thing without gaming it out past that. The next right thing was to bring indictments.
Gaming it out- people who think they can control events or perceptions – was partly what got us here. Comey gamed it out. He made decisions based on what he thought people might do or think or believe. He abandoned the process and instead relied on his own huge ego. He was wrong, but worse, it wasn’t his decision to make. He can’t decide “if I do this, people will think this”.
When it doubt follow the process. You cannot go wrong. It’s designed to reduce individual discretion and subjective decision making. Our job is “next right thing”. The response to “next right thing” is up to the defendant and the public. We’re not the defense. We’re the prosecutor.
Omnes Omnibus
@LAO: This is one of those things that people outside the profession really don’t grok. Lucky them.
UncleEbeneezer
@dmsilev: I’ve seen arguments that Peter Navarro or Boris Epshteyn are the most likely candidates for CC6 identity.
dmsilev
@LAO: Thanks.
Kay
@Chief Oshkosh:
I knew he wasn’t going without a fight by August. He told us. Over and over. He will never, ever accept a loss. Not then, not now.
Montanareddog
Would the unindicted co-conspirators have been notified of that by DOJ?. Since the others seem to be clearly identifiable, I was wondering about #6 and if Ginni, both Millers, Bannon, Stone etc. might all be shitting themselves at the moment
p.a.
And also… what does DoJ know and when/what do they do anything about sitting Republicans at the state or Fed level ankle deep or worse in tRump’s fake elector and martial law schemes?
Or is
up to Congress without DoJ involvement (except as for providing evidence)?
mvr
@LAO: Thanks! It has been a long time and the practice I worked for had most of our cases in state (Oregon) court rather than federal court. So I am unsure exactly how things would go if a defense witness took the 5th under cross examination.
So you are saying that if a defense witness takes the 5th their testimony likely won’t be stricken, but the prosecution can use it to argue about their credibility. Does that capture your thought?
NotMax
@Kay
“I am Lord Garth.”
– Star Trek
.
Scout211
I posted about that yesterday in one of the threads. That struck me as new information, too. That there was a meeting between Trump and Pence on the 5th was new information, at least to me. And when Pence refused to give Trump the presidency via the electoral account, Trump used his mafia ways to threaten Trump. He said something like, “I will have to criticize you publicly.”
So Pence knew he would be a target of the violence if it erupted. And he was.
ETA: or what WaterGirl posted upthread.
Glidwrith
@Kay: I noticed on election night, the networks never called a state for Shitgibbon unless there was a state to also call for Biden. They never once put Shitgibbon in the lead, I suspect because they didn’t want to give him a toehold to claim he was winning.
Jackie
@Montanareddog: Apparently so; Eastman has confirmed he’s CC #2.
And, yes, there’s A LOT of soiled underwear… 🤭
rikyrah
@Kay:
To me, the thing that went most right on 1/6 was that the counter protesters knew to stay home. They were banking on the counter protesters in order to pull out the National Guard, and declare Martial Law.
MattF
@TaMara: Here’s a fairly detailed article on Eastman. He’s always struck me as mild-mannered. But I was fooled.
eclare
@Ken:
That is a great quote. Also how prescient was Herschmann telling Eastman that he should get a fucking great criminal defense attorney?
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Kay:
This is a great point. Not to be overlooked.
Chris
@Kay:
Oh Lordy, yes, I’m not in any way suggesting that we shouldn’t be indicting the prick and apologize if that’s what came out. And I don’t think we can head it off either. I’m just saying that that’s the concern, and why any solace I take in the fact that they failed this time is sharply limited. But it would be happening no matter what our reaction was.
eclare
@Betty Cracker:
Yes. Raven posted that in one of the threads yesterday.
Kristine
@luc: That was really interesting–thanks for the link.
Scout211
My daughter and her family are visiting and I would describe her as a left-leaning normie. Her take on this latest indictment is “meh, I don’t pay attention anymore, it’s all noise on both sides.”
I think we do need to understand that a big chunk of normies who are Democrats are not as into the details and weeds as the typical jackal. We need to make sure we have a way to reach these normies to keep them voting for Dems next year. Because many of them, like my daughter, are getting immune to the daily outrage and noise on both sides and are starting to ignore it.
NotMax
@Glidwrith
Think that’s dicing the onion too fine. More a factor of the order of when polls close and the speed (or lack thereof) of results reporting that meets the qualifications established by the individual media operations to confidently announce a call.
Were it up to me no calls for any state would be assigned until all polls on the west coast have closed. That it may be late night on the east coast by then is a boneheaded metric.
Ken
“A nice, mild-mannered fellow, always said hello when we met.”
— Every neighbor of every serial killer ever
LAO
@mvr: Well, rather that “likely wouldn’t be stricken,” I would characterize it as “may not be stricken “ because it will depend on whether the witness’ invocation of the 5th Amendment is directly related to their direct testimony. IE a witness couldn’t testify that he/she gave certain advice to the defendant and then invoke the 5th when cross examined about that advice. It’s a subject determined.
eclare
@jonas:
Kind of like what Ron White said (paraphrasing) about being arrested for starting a fight while drunk. “I had the right to stay silent, but not the ability.”
Raoul Paste
@Kay: Exactly. It really is shocking to see how amoral and completely malicious these people were in planning for an overthrow and violence.
But I can’t be shellshocked and simply withdraw. What we have here is nothing compared to the people fighting for their lives in Ukraine.
MattF
@Ken: Yeah, well… maybe it was just the pink face.
UncleEbeneezer
I hear that Lawrence O’Donnell swatted down Chris Hayes’ BS pretty effectively last night. Anybody know where there is a clip?
Betty Cracker
@Kay: Couldn’t agree more about how harmful it is when officials game out scenarios and substitute their own analysis of how others might respond instead of following the process. It happens all the time. There was probably a real risk of it happening in response to an attempted coup too. Thankfully it didn’t.
Geminid
@Scout211: There are normies whe stay out of the weeds and still consistently vote Democratic. I have a good friend who would watch the most mediocre sports ball game before she would watch an excellent show on politics. Stephanie’s a very sharp and observant person though, and she doesn’t need a bunch of podcasts and blog posts to tell her that Republican politicians are assholes.
cope
I’m not going to weigh in on all this because of my lengthy record of wrong interpretations, impressions and predictions (I know my limits).
However, as far as the title of this post goes, this is what I found: “Dr. Bandy X. Lee, an American psychiatrist who has written several books about Donald Trump, reminds us that ‘when a coup attempt goes unpunished, it becomes a training exercise.’ ” It comes from a blog run by a guy named Jack Hassard called “The Art of Teaching Science” so it’s not a primary source.
Dangerman
Also, Legal Eagle on YouTube is always a fun watch.
Baud
@Scout211:
By definition, normies aren’t paying attention. IMHO, the correct approach isn’t to try to convert them, but to assess what will pique their interests.
JWR
@rikyrah:
Yeah, they figured the few officers protecting the Capital building would be busy fending off ANTIFA.
MisterForkbeard
I think it’s a good indictment – strong, plenty of backing, got a good draw on the judge, etc. And it provides a fast, good way to nail Trump to the fucking wall. Most takes I’ve seen on it mirror that assumption.
I’m not surprised that rightwing takes immediately started lying about it – “this is criminalizing free speech”, while Smith disarmed that approach from a legal perspective by making it about actions that Trump took while knowing his election accusations were complete bullshit. It’s mostly on the media as to whether or not they’ll allow that argument to work from a PR perspective. And for the first day at least, the media looks like they’re going with the “Trump did a seriously bad thing and he obviously did it, took real direct actions that were illegal.
cope
@Baud: Also, I like to think they will stay in character as normies at the ballot box.
mvr
@LAO: Thanks! I was thinking the judge had some discretion here given the different ways this might go. But I wasn’t sure.
MisterForkbeard
@Kay: I’ve REALLY appreciated some of the takes where people have finally noticed that the Trump guys were literally planning on using the Insurrection Act and have the US Army violently put down protests and riots after Trump overturned the elections.
These fuckers planned on it as necessary and were pretty happy about it. There are a few commentators who just noticed this because of the evidence in the indictment.
Anonymous At Work
The beauty here is that the 4 charges are the core, from which further charges can spiral outward. The 6 co-conspirators can easily be charged and have plenty of public statements and prior testimony from prior trials/disbarment proceedings. Others can be pulled in for new indictments and perjury traps abound for TFG’s defenders.
Anyway
I was more worried about the trifecta red state leges adopting the newfangled way of assigning electors.
To me that’s still a fear going forward.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@UncleEbeneezer: two clips from twitter, I’m guessing Qondi hit rewind on a TiVo and then made the recording on a phone. the second one is where O’Donnell pushes back a little more forcefully.
I would say, “more than we could see in real time” rather than what we can comprehend. It is fascinating subtext how much they all rely on what we saw on TV vs the (I believe legally necessary) silence on the part of the DoJ to make their arguments. O’Donnell talks about Garland’s mild-mannered affect, and I remember the first time Smith spoke for the cameras there were a lot of tweets about how people were disappointeed he didn’t have a deeper voice.
kindness
My take is Trump’s only hope of getting out from under the Washington DC charges will be appealing his guilty verdict to a higher (Trumpy) court. I don’t think the DC Circuit Court is Trumpy enough. Will the Supreme Court take up the case? They certainly are Trumpy enough.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
Abortion rights lost and voting rights lost. Those two seem to have sticking power.
narya
@UncleEbeneezer: Other than on my TiVo? I am a big fan of Chris, but that doesn’t mean I don’t disagree with his take on this. O’Donnell WAS very pointed–he said look, a lot of what’s in this indictment came out of the J6 committee, and DOJ might not have been able to get it any other way. But, more to the point (he argued), the hearings got a LOT of notice and attention, and brought the schemes to the public–softened the ground, as it were. If DOJ had tried to indict before that had happened, the normies might well have thought it was political. It was well-argued–and Hayes didn’t try to push back or get defensive
ETA: even the FNYFT has a top-of-the-(virtual)-fold story saying that the indictment relies on the J6 committee materials.
Alison Rose
@Dangerman: I sadly agree, but…the thing about TIFG eventually shuffling off this mortal coil is that no matter how or when or where it happens, his groupies will insist Biden arranged it. Car accident? Biden paid the other driver to hit him! Plane crash? Biden drugged the pilots! Slip and fall down a flight of stairs? Biden poured oil on the steps! Cancer? Biden…uh…gave it to him…somehow!
I mean, these people think the Clintons offed like half a dozen people, at least. They would certainly think the same of Biden if their Dear Leader were to kick the bucket.
H.E.Wolf
https://electoral-vote.com/#item-1
As usual, the two writers on that blog – today it’s Z, a history professor who teaches in CA – are clear, cogent, and do not mince words.
Omnes Omnibus
I have a couple of observations: First, while it is not wrong to look at how dangerously close to the edge we got in the wake of the 2020 election, it is also important to note that our institutions did, in fact, hold. No judge sided with the conspirators, the media didn’t both-sides it when the chips were down, even Pence did his job, etc. Second, it is important that Trump’s prosecutions take place at the pace the legal system requires not at a pace dictated by politics. These aren’t political prosecutions, no matter what the right is saying.
West of the Rockies
I lost a long take on this and am so pissed.
Short version. I think we need a Murrow on McCarthy take, a Cronkite Vietnam War take (which LBJ knew doomed his reelection).
Rachel relies on too much head bobble, and Groucho eye rolling. Lawrence is too staged. Stephanie can’t stop smirking, Chris has too many ill-informed hot takes.
We could use a serious, somber speaker to really get the attention of the millions of Americans who somehow remain uninformed or indifferent.
I’d love a long conversation with Jason Johnson and Michael Beschloss and Maya Wiley and BHO. Maybe they could collectively make known what is truly at stake.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Smith didn’t wield a single sword. Weak.
MattF
@Alison Rose: The nanobots did it!
tobie
@Jackie: oh, good grief, if we’re entertaining alternative venues, why not Maryland? Baltimore has a big, federal court house.
Geminid
@p.a. I think the Otero County, New Mexico Sheriff was barred from office by a lawsuit claiming his participation in the J6 Insurrection disqualified him under the 14th Amendment. The case may be on appeal. There is good coverage of the case in state and local media. I think the guy’s name might be Cuoy Griffith.
Alison Rose
@WaterGirl: Okay, not me defending Pence, but he has called him out to some degree. He’s said multiple times that Trump was wrong and that he (Pence) did not have Constitutional authority to fuck with the counting. And in his statement yesterday, he repeated that and also said that anyone who puts themselves above the Constitution should never be president. Of course he then went on to talk about Hunter, but you know. Anyway, yeah he can and absolutely should be more forceful about it, and should have done so a long ass time ago, but he hasn’t been completely silent about it.
smith
There were stories at the time that messages to stay home made the rounds of the people who tend to organize these things. It sounded like this was widespread and systematic. I wonder if this was just their accurate evaluation of the situation, or if they were tipped off. Undoubtedly the FBI has informants in those circles, so planting a message would be possible.
Jackie
@Ken: Touché!
Hoodie
@Omnes Omnibus: Thank god for the deep state, which still gives us people like Jack Smith, the guys at DOJ who told Clark to go play with himself in the corner, and the cops that kept assorted goons at bay in the Capitol. It’s big part of why we’re a prosperous, still relatively free nation and not a broken, corrupt shithole like Russia. At least for now.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@LAO:
Dipshit’s trial will be over long before the the claims against the co-conspirators are timed out. If they let him get convicted without flipping, they’re going to jail at Smith’s own sweet time.
MattF
@Alison Rose: And Trump did Pence the honor of saying he was ‘too honest’. Doubtful that Pence will ever recover from that.
rikyrah
I can’t stand Political Don King, but, this was funny.
Elie Mystal (@ElieNYC) posted at 11:16 PM on Tue, Aug 01, 2023:
Sometimes Jeffrey Clark fucks with me on Twitter so I know he reads this feed and so I know he can hear me when I say “Ha ha ha ha, they gonna come for yo ass next.”
(https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1686591875015151616?t=Ev9rRnLazL-QCTiKuTpjKQ&s=03)
Chris
@MattF:
Trump probably uses “honest” and “dumb” interchangeably.
Honus
@Frankensteinbeck: not to mention that the judge is an African American woman which raises the distinct possibility that Trump will blurt something out that will get him in a cell for contempt of court.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Right on. That’s the takeaway I want to…uh….take away from all this. Not that I can’t appreciate how close we came to the cliff’s ledge, mind, but we didn’t go over the edge, and I’m as grateful for that as I can be.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@narya: also, thanks in no small part to His Kevin’s short-sightedness and stupidity, the J6 C’tee was a unique forum. The committee members could decide who got to speak at hearings, what video would be released to the public, they didn’t have to allow any pushback or cross-examination or contradiction from trump loyalists on the dais or in the witness chairs.
There’s no question that Cassidy Hutchinson was a game-changer, and her getting before the cameras resulted from a complicated series of falling dominoes that started with her own sense of patriotism and right-and-wrong, I’m guessing a very ham-fisted trump-paid lawyer who assumed he was talking to a fellow true-believer, and some people we don’t ‘yet know about (sounds like Alyssa Farrah, daughter of the founder of I forget which of the sub-Fox RW outlets) who put CH in touch with Liz Cheney, who had that road-to-Damascus moment on the day itself, and could speak to Hutchinson as a fellow if recently converted anti-trump Republican.
That testimony was, as I recall, a watershed that led to Hirschmann and others who wanted to get their stories out in public, and who knows what effect all that had on that odd and confused little creature Mark Meadows, when he decided he was going to cooperate and how much, when his lawyer or his wife or his kids or his brother finally said, you gotta snap out of this and think about your own ass
If the trump team had provided Hutchinson with a smarter, more subtle lawyer, someone who managed to sympathetically play on her fears and convince her to have unclear recollections in her own best interest, who knows where we’d be today.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Chief Oshkosh:
I really want to hear from his SS detail.
Alison Rose
@Honus: I’m honestly amazed he’s never said the n-word in public. I’m positive he’s said it behind closed doors countless times.
Jackie
@rikyrah: The “whoevers” who managed to convince counter protesters to stay home or away from the Capitol J6 deserve metals!!!
rikyrah
Ridiculous
James (@carphalen5150) posted at 7:23 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:![]()
CNN: @realDonaldTrump tried to overthrow the government he was elected to lead, here’s why it’s a problem for @POTUS.
(https://twitter.com/carphalen5150/status/1686714220421783552?t=RVX4i-V6sKIMQ89814tK3Q&s=03)
Mike in NC
Trump was a fucking psychopath who enjoyed hurting people, whether it was kicking the poor off of food stamp or school lunch programs, or fantasizing about shooting peaceful protesters in Lafayette Park. That’s why the rubes will love him til the day they die.
bbleh
As to takes, like others upthread I’ve seen suggestions that Smith didn’t indict the others along with Trump in order to keep them from slowing down the overall process a la his co-defendants in FL, and also that the charges in the indictment are selected to be as simple and provable as possible, and that other possibilities (eg seditious conspiracy) were eschewed because they would be more complicated and take longer.
And having read the indictment I gotta say, it’s pretty damning. It’s like a slo-mo machine gun: the very specific allegations just keep coming and coming and coming, and it builds into something kinda overwhelming. Worth a read, and persevere through the first few pages of more boilerplate stuff.
Ken
@H.E.Wolf: Heh. From that electoral-vote post, on conspirator number six: “Among the names being floated are […] virtually the entire primetime lineup of Fox as constituted in January 2021…”
JPL
@Jackie: Depends on the meaning of diversity.
rikyrah
Christopher Webb (@cwebbonline) posted at 7:33 PM on Tue, Aug 01, 2023:![]()
https://t.co/BSEc0mN1fF
The main reason Trump will have a speedy January 6 trial — Judge Tanya S. Chutkan
(https://twitter.com/cwebbonline/status/1686535738274480128?t=IGXnnZmw3okTpzvNVQbttA&s=03)
rikyrah
Christopher Webb (@cwebbonline) posted at 7:42 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
Georgia Is Ready…
Fulton county Sheriff talks through security plan — and we might finally get that mugshot, folks. https://t.co/YcBDeEEGdX
(https://twitter.com/cwebbonline/status/1686719151765594112?t=86CgKL2fgKgYUio9pMjnxA&s=03)
Hoodie
@Alison Rose: Well, he can’t really run away from this indictment seeing how intimately he’s involved in it. Because of that, Pence is a dead man walking. In fact, this whole thing may become a gigantic diarrhea explosion for any of the current GOP candidates. Others (Kemp? Youngkin?) would be smart stay on the sidelines and wait until 2028.
trollhattan
@West of the Rockies: Are there currently any broadcast newsreaders of the somber, serious, thoughtful variety? Or are program directors only hiring entertainers and/or hot blondes on pumps?
I do not know because I’m divorced from teevee news a long while now. Been decades since evening news was prestige loss-leader programming for networks.
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah:
“Political Don King” That’s cold. Also, funny.
rikyrah
Ryan Goodman (@rgoodlaw) posted at 7:50 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
We re-tooled the PDF of #TrumpIndictment for #January6th to make it more user-friendly.
It’s now easier to keep straight the actual names of the “Co-Conspirators.” See the screenshot below as an example.
It’s also word searchable.
Link to PDF here: https://t.co/fHx3IFKuxu https://t.co/Ob3oF2xQOh
(https://twitter.com/rgoodlaw/status/1686721049033838592?t=m9016vw7tBP6VRB5ETg4_Q&s=03)
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@TaMara: Ginny was frequently in contact with all of these people. I imagine she’ll be subpoenaed.
Geminid
@Alison Rose: I saw a statement that Pence put out last night that was fairly explicit and forceful. It was framed in a self-serving way, of course. It wasn’t very long, but it being Pence I still got bored halfway through.
Dangerman
Couldn’t possibly come from the Left …
… and my Hip Gaiter search was for purposes of finding a Serious Sane Soul on the Right that would say “Enough” and advocate for Trump to be unceremoniously tossed aside.
My search was unsuccessful.
I think this ends up in some variation (NOT LITERAL) of Jimmy Jones Special Kool Aid mix. There will be a large group of Folks on the Right that simply check out of politics and never vote or donate or anything again. Which is fine by me, obviously. I also think there will be some shit occur that nobody wants but is kinda unavoidable.
I don’t see the equivalent of a Murrow or a Cronkite emerging from the Right.
JWR
I think one reason the media is taking this so seriously is because they watched it all in real time, up close and very personally. I’ve heard the same said of natural, (earthquake, weather), and man-made, (9/11), disasters. Stuff like this tends to focus the mind.
NotMax
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
Phrasing!
;)
smith
Those were the days when we had all of 3 broadcast channels that everybody watched. There’s no single wise uncle in the fractionated and factionalized news media we have now.
arrieve
@NotMax: I would love to meet up–any of those days are fine for me at the moment.
MomSense
@UncleEbeneezer:
I was watching live when it happened and it was awesome. Hates was starting in on the whining about Garland/DOJ and O’Donnell said that we absolutely needed to have those public hearings because indictments following a DOJ investigation would not have been received well. Because of the hearings the public knew the basics of what happened and became invested.
I also think it’s important to point out for those people who think an earlier prosecution and conviction of insurrection for trump would disqualify him from running for office that they are missing a key problem. There is no mechanism for disqualification. That would also have to be litigated.
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: I also keep in mind how close Trump came to actually winning the 2024 election. The election wasn’t so close the result was ambiguous, but it was close enough to keep me on edge for three days.
MomSense
@UncleEbeneezer:
I was watching live when it happened and it was awesome. Hayes was starting in on the whining about Garland/DOJ and O’Donnell said that we absolutely needed to have those public hearings because indictments following a DOJ investigation would not have been received well. Because of the hearings the public knew the basics of what happened and became invested.
I also think it’s important to point out for those people who think an earlier prosecution and conviction of insurrection for trump would disqualify him from running for office that they are missing a key problem. There is no mechanism for disqualification. That would also have to be litigated.
Omnes Omnibus
OT: One day after Judge Janet became Justice Janet, WI voters filed a lawsuit challenging GOP gerrymandering.
Hoodie
@JWR: They’re positively salivating at the prospect of months of wall-to-wall coverage to come. It’s karmic, they elevated Trump to get eyeballs and now they will get to preside over his public immolation. One thing I really enjoy about the indictment is that Jack Smith seems to have a subtle theatrical flair. 45 pages for the obituary of Donald J. Trump, the 45th President of the United States. The documents case was an overture; this is the main act.
NotMax
@West of the Rockies
Murrow and Cronkite rose through the ranks and established a reputation by dint of their widely respected journalistic credentials. Most TV news channel desk jockeys now are not journalists, they’re hosts.
narya
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Agree completely. My more-normie friend and I listened to or watched (at my urging) the J6 hearings. (He’s a very disgruntled independent–he doesn’t want one-party rule, blah blah blah–but would not vote for a R a this point because he recognizes they’ve lost their damn minds.) It was interesting to see his reaction–we tend to forget how revelatory it was for non-jackals.
@Dangerman: I’m in the middle of the Andrew Weissman “Prosecuting TIFG” podcast where they interview Judge Luttig. He’s super forceful about it.
@rikyrah: I find some of his stuff to be interesting. I got tired of the Garland-bashing, but I liked the way he talked about the reconstruction amendments.
Ken
Congratulations, Mike, Hunter Biden will never be President. Well done thou good and faithful servant, you have accomplished your task and may now retire from politics and public life. Farewell, adieu, do not let the door hit you on the way out.
Baud
DOJ is seeking a conflict of interest hearing for the defendants’ attorney in the docs case.
Hob
@Ken: Neighbors of the (alleged) Long Island serial killer have said he was someone you’d cross the street to avoid, and that they weren’t surprised by his arrest “because of all the creepiness.”
zhena gogolia
@H.E.Wolf: Wow, that is good. I have to get back to work, but will read later.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud:
And so it begins.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: You Pollyanna! //
zhena gogolia
@West of the Rockies: Keith Olbermann could have done it.
Geminid
@Omnes Omnibus: It will be great if the plaintiffs win that one. Is just the lower chamber of Wisconsin’s legislature up for election next year, or both?
H.E.Wolf
Yep. Their (the two writers’) sense of humor is very compatible with Balloon Juice.
trollhattan
About bloody time: coal rolling company rolls up a big fine.
They sound like lovely people.
Betty Cracker
@West of the Rockies: I think the media is too fragmented to produce a galvanizing effect like Murrow or Cronkite did in their day, even if a figure with their level of gravitas was working in a modern newsroom. A conversation between Johnson, Beschloss, Wiley and Obama would be interesting to us but also preaching to the choir for the same reason.
Steve in the ATL
@Jackie:
He makes such a great point–they have poorly educated Oxycontin addicts as well as poorly educated meth addicts!
Omnes Omnibus
@Geminid: Sixteen senate seats are at stake in 2024.
trollhattan
@NotMax: I like the Brit distinction of reporter and newsreader. If you’re on air, reading the news, you’re a newsreader.
H.E.Wolf
I particularly like the days when Z writes the blog (I’m a history nerd). V is also good. Somewhere on their blog’s sidebar is a link to biographical info on both of them.
Steve in the ATL
@LAO: where have you been? There has been a frightening dearth of lawyers here lately–and, as everyone acknowledges, we are the best commenters*!
*Disclaimer: may not apply to Omnes and me
different-church-lady
The only reason we still have a democracy today is because enough people in positions of responsibility fought for it and protected it.
It’s a thin line.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL:
And the Cole family!
Miss Bianca
@Geminid:
Err…is there something you’re not telling us? Like, where Obama’s time machine really went?
On second thought, never mind. I don’t wanna know.//
Jackie
@Geminid: Are you foretelling the future?😉
zhena gogolia
Something occurred to me this morning — the comments sections here have been revitalized since TwXtter imploded.
West of the Rockies
@Omnes Omnibus:
Excellent.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
I would pay good money to have Cole on Trump’s jury.
narya
@Betty Cracker: That’s why I think (like others here, plus Larry O’D) that the J6 hearings were really important–it was as close as we could come to the Murrow/Cronkite reporting.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Interesting. I haven’t noticed a change.
Jackie
@Omnes Omnibus: 👍🏻
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: May not?
NotMax
@trollhattan
Just wanted to see that again.
:)
Ken
@Steve in the ATL: @Baud: Wouldn’t it be great if Cole ended up on the jury, and persuaded the other eleven to convict?
(“Actually just eleven of us voted to convict, but we decided the other guy’s vote didn’t count. Seemed appropriate.”)
West of the Rockies
@trollhattan:
That’s great news!! Rolling coalers are wretched, toxic-masculinity bullies.
Alison Rose
@Baud: Honestly, I’d love to see Cole on any jury. Imagine the way he’d ream out any jurors who were being wishy-washy during deliberations.
Honus
@Jackie: ok, I give up. What does TIFG mean?
Hoodie
@different-church-lady: Maybe, maybe not. For example, one of the assumptions Clark made is that Trump could invoke the Insurrection Act if protests broke out in response to his illegally grabbing power, and that the military would enforce his orders after he had illegally taken power. I’m not so sure that would have happened. You’re talking about sending out regular American troops to put down protests in American cities. Remember that Milley was worried about that kind of thing and was sending the word down the line to remind people not to follow illegal orders. Orders from an illegal president are illegal orders.
narya
@Honus: The Indicted Former Guy (used to be TFG, for The Former Guy, so we don’t have to even type his name).
Alison Rose
@trollhattan: They…they named the company SINISTER??? I mean, I know it has other etymological connotations, but seriously, what the actual fuck?
Ken
@Alison Rose: Probably some sort of “edgelord” signaling. We had that conversation recently.
Or should it be “signalling”? We also had that conversation recently.
LAO
@Steve in the ATL: ahh, you missed me. Lol.
Serious answer, I’ve been dealing with some family stuff, my dad died and my mom’s in cancer treatment., I’m the only daughter (shakes fists in direction of my 2 brothers) and I decided, for my sanity, I needed to be less online. But yesterday’s indictment really, really pleased me. It was everything I could ask of the DOJ, so I’m less depressed.
Jackie
@Honus: The Indicted Former Guy 😊
Baud
@LAO:
My condolences on your father, and good wishes to your mom.
Low Key Swagger
Interesting conversation last night with some friends…would you, if you could, accept a plea deal wherein TFG avoids prison but tells all about Jared and the 2b, what he sold or gave away to foreign interests on his own or with the help of others, the low down of Russia, etc. Essentially, come completely clean, and you can live out your years at Mar a Lago but you cannot run for office again.
I think I’d accept. Never gonna happen, but I’d like to know some of our people in harms way out there are safe, or not.
Omnes Omnibus
@LAO:
Condolences. But we are always glad to see you.
Chris
@Jackie:
We got both kinds! Country AND Western!
Bupalos
@West of the Rockies: I don’t think here is any magic media solution to the long term problems of inequality, polarization, and dread of the future that are degrading western democracies.
There are only governance solutions, to slowly change this broader landscape. And this administration continues to pile up some really remarkable and potentially transformative achievements on that score.
Honus
@MisterForkbeard: also, as I recall when he suggested it the joint chiefs told him no way.
Anyway
@Mike in NC:
I’ll never forget his full page ad in FTFNYT calling for the death penalty for the Central park Five. He would not acknowledge his error even after they were exonerated and released after years in prison. Fuck him.
Alison Rose
@Ken: Signalllling.
yellowdog
@Alison Rose: Alive but aphasic would be ideal.
Geminid
@Miss Bianca: No, it’s just that there were some very close states that broke our way. And Biden carried Pennsylvania by less than 100,000 out of over 6 million votes (I think). I thought Biden ran a really good campaign and it turned out he needed to.
Alison Rose
@LAO: My condolences. My dad passed nearly six months ago and the pain is still very fresh. Sending love to you and your family, and best wishes for your mom’s treatment <3
Omnes Omnibus
@Geminid:
Take a look at the year.
tomtofa
@Alison Rose:
They would probably say he contracted it out to the Clintons, so Hillary could get her revenge.
Hoodie
@trollhattan: One problem with modern diesels is that the particulate filters (PFs) and exhaust gas returns (EGRs) needed for emission control reduce the potential power output of the engine, so these mods are not just done for purposes of annoying liberals. However, the real scandal here is that cops are not pulling these guys over when they see them rolling coal. If you see a relatively new 1/2 ton or 3/4 ton pickup spewing smoke, that’s a dead giveaway that they’ve removed their particulate filter and EGR systems and are probably running a tune that puts excessive fuel into the engine. Sure, sometimes excessive smoke can be a sign of a engine problem, but that can be explained away if you’re pulled over and that vehicle will end up in the shop anyway.
Bupalos
@different-church-lady: we’re all in positions of responsibility for democracy.
Barbara
@Omnes Omnibus: You mean the outcome might have been so close because of the pandemic?
Baud
@Bupalos:
👍
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Jackie: he’s not the only one
calls for a “single standard of justice” by which trials in Washington DC– as opposed to say, Ft Pierce, FL– have juries drawn from “across the entire country”. Also Hunter Biden.
Harvard Law, ’05
BC in Illinois
@Alison Rose:
My father claimed to have seen a gladiator movie in the fifties, where, in the background, a Roman legion was marching down the road, with a squad leader barking:
Omnes Omnibus
@Barbara:
No, people have been joking about fortune telling and time travel because Geminid typed 2024 instead 2020. Don’t read any deeper than that.
Mai Naem mobileI
TFG is an idiot. All this crap was self inflicted. He already had the money he had been raising for the election lawsuits that he had not spent. He could have just moved on, settled the NY lawsuits using the election lawsuit fund money, returned the docs and still held rallies making big $$$ from his marks. None of the J6 stuff was necessary. Not to mention he could have still gotten payoffs from the Saudis, Russians and Israelis. This guy had a good scam going and he screwed himself out of it.
Ohio Mom
@rikyrah: Yes, definitely, the leadership of the would-be January 6th counter protesters who stood down are huge unsung/unknown heroes. That was so smart, to stay home.
They deserve medals and ticket-tape parades and statues and mentions in history books. That they are anonymous seems unfair and poetic at the same time.
LAO
Thanks to all for your condolences. I appreciate it.
Geminid
@Omnes Omnibus: The election was close in 2016 too. Not sure what you are getting at.
Delk
Avoid horses!
Baud
@Ohio Mom:
I didn’t go to the Capitol on Jan 6. Where’s my medal?
Bupalos
Digging in to the Biden repayment plan changes….presuming this can be defended, it’s a BFD. It’s really about half way to free college.
trollhattan
@Mai Naem mobileI: Am loathe to occupy Dolt’s bwaain for even a second but suspect he really, REALLY misses the attention and trappings accorded him as POTUS and probably equally, his ability to punish enemies while in office.
Then there’s the notion, which I’m guessing Sam Alito believes with all his granite heart, of the supreme executive: he who cannot be touched by law enforcement or courts while in office. Four years of bliss.
Barbara
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: When this issue came up for the other J6 trials, it had been a while since I looked, but Washington D.C. is one of the few jurisdictions that has actually increased its percentage of white residents over the last decade, and whites are now almost 50% of the total population. I mean, they are probably still more likely to vote as liberals, but it limits the kind of claims people like DeSantis can make about DC juries.
They probably could indict some of these other potential defendants in the rocket docket, which draws from then entire district and includes some rural areas. That is where Paul Manafort was tried and convicted. Could also go to Green Belt — District of Maryland in College Park.
Honus
@narya: OK, thanks. I was thinking “The Idiot Former Guy”
trollhattan
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Henceforth, the entire federal court system shall move to Utah.
Geminid
@Geminid: One difference between 2016 and 2020 was that in 2018 Democrats won governor races in Pennsylvania, Michigan and Wisconsin. That probably made for better GOTV operations in those states, and may have inhibited voter suppression.
Alison Rose
@Geminid: Friend, reread your original comment:
Barbara
@Omnes Omnibus: I didn’t scroll back to the original post, just the one you replied to, which didn’t have the year.
Ken
“Sir,” they said with tears in their eyes, “Sir, you are fucking crazy, and if you try to issue such a blatantly illegal order we will ignore it.”
Jackie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Did none of his consultants inform TIFG he would be tried where the crime was committed? ///
Too bad the trial couldn’t be held in the Capitol Bldg!
Miki
@MattF: Thanks, much, for the link to the article on Eastman. Excellent read.
Immanentize
I’m on a plane with plausible wifi. I’ll add one take which may or may not have been mentioned —
But the six un-indicted co-cospirators, as mentioned above, are easy to discern. This indictment is an invitation to flip now. There will be more indictments to come in this case, including perhaps superceding indictment charges for Trump. As happened in the docs case — and they flipped an excellent witness in that matter it seems.
Remember, first to flip generally gets the best deal!
Honus
@Geminid: also, I believe the secretaries of state (who oversee elections) in all those states changed from republican to democrats.
Geminid
@Alison Rose: Yes, now I see. But I think people knew what I meant.
Kay
@Betty Cracker:
We’re better off with them fragmented. There’s just no telling what they might rally behind! “Galvanizing” isn’t always positive. They also gin up panics and they were obviously and shamefully on Team Bush in that recount. Their weird personal hatred of Al Gore?
They too should just follow some rules – their lives would be a lot easier if they had standards and norms. Then they wouldb’t get wrapped around the “fair and balanced” axle so often. Fair and balanced is a dumb rule. If the facts are unbalanced they’re supposed to report them anyway.
Alison Rose
@Geminid: Sure, but good-natured teasing is a staple on this here blog. Let’s hope you were being prophetic!
Dangerman
Easy. Accept.
Ruckus
@Frankensteinbeck:
To me this is the key.
SFB is a volatile human being without any reason other than his own concept of who he is. And when I use volatile in this way I mean that he thinks he is the hero of the world and that everyone should agree with him and worship him and he’s willing to burn it down (by getting others to do it) if he doesn’t get his way. IOW he is an immature 5 yr old in a 77 yr old body.
His words about his current situation shows that he still does and always will believe that the world revolves around the pole up his butt, not that he is a member of the total population. IOW he is the center of the universe. Just ask him. He’s not the stupidest human but his personality is so focused on how great he is that the outcome is that he is one of the least reasonable, least intelligent humans, because he thinks he’s always and forever number one in all of humanity. He lies about everything because his view of the world is that he is the top of the entire branch of animals known as human. In some ways this is an illness, one that many humans have but because he really isn’t anywhere close to where he thinks he is in the lineup of humans and because he got to be president, a job that was dramatically over his head, he is absolutely incapable of being helped or in any way convinced that his version of his standing in the world is anything but number one.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dangerman:
I’d include a no golfing clause. Just because.
Betty Cracker
@LAO: Wow, that’s a lot. Sorry for your loss, and best wishes for your mom.
Ken
Someone must have got him to take notice, considering he appointed Cannon to the district court containing Mar-a-Lago. Were there any similar appointments for Bedminster?
Sure Lurkalot
@trollhattan:
More than this, Trump is peddling that being a candidate for president means any such action is election interference and thus illegal.
JaySinWA
@LAO: In a previous post thread, I went looking for info on the “advice of council” defence that T’s current lawyers were floating. One article claimed that in making that claim essentially waives attorney-client privilege and makes discovery available for all sorts of stuff.
I think the DOJ has already successfully argued Crime-Fraud exemptions and listing lawyers as co-conspirators opens a lot of doors already, but if they go ahead with that defense, would that make a lot of the legal arguments moot?
Steve in the ATL
Free legal advice? Dude, you’re killing our busiess model!
Mousebumples
@Omnes Omnibus: On Wisconsin!
eclare
@LAO:
So sorry to hear about your dad, and best wishes for your mom. Fuck cancer.
Geminid
@Honus: That makes a big difference too. And now Democrats hold both positions in Arizona, with Governor Hobbs and Secretary of State Fontes.
I learned a fun Adrian Fontes fact: his family has lived in what is now southern Arizona since the 1740s.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL:
Think of it more as that first free taste that drug dealers give.
MisterForkbeard
@trollhattan: I’m still amazed that the resolution is a fine.
This company made and sold products explicitly designed to circumvent public laws. They bragged about it. They sold 36k of them. Breaking the law was their explicit business model.
And in return, they pay… $28 per device sold and they walk away? How does no one go to jail for something like that?
zhena gogolia
@Immanentize: Sounds good!
MisterForkbeard
@Baud: He’s got a good case for it. “Grumpy old asshole who’s a former republican” sounds great for Trump on paper, doesn’t it?
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: exactly. Loss leader. And no one seems to listen to that one anyhoo.
UncleEbeneezer
@MomSense: Thanks. There’s also the very real possibility that many of the people who cooperated with Jan 6 Committee wouldn’t have done so if DOJ was already targeting them and Trump. 1/6 Committee was likely able to build their case BECAUSE DOJ didn’t rush things.
trollhattan
@MisterForkbeard: Agreed. Reminds me of the wrist-slaps given to companies with OSHA violations, including deaths. “Cost of doing business.”
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer:
Come on, man! Suggesting that various parts of the US government were doing a good job under difficult circumstances? How will you ever get a pundit gig?
Geminid
@Alison Rose: I understand. I actually don’t think next year’s election will be as close. Barring, that is, a serious recession, and it doesn’t look like we’ll get one. I think the Infrastructure, CHIPS+ and IRA bills passed in the last Congress are providing countercyclical spending besides making investments that will pay off long term. I still see small projects funded with money from the American Rescue Plan passed February, 2021. Considering that Speaker Pelosi had only a 5 or 6 vote majority and the Senate was 50-50, that Congress got a lot of good work done.
Ken
I’d think the leg irons and the electric shock collar triggered by leaving the Mar-a-Lago grounds would adequately prevent golfing.
This deal does include leg irons and an electric shock collar, doesn’t it?
Ruckus
@WaterGirl:
So Pence knew in no uncertain terms on Jan 5 that he was in danger, and still the fucking coward won’t call out Trump.
I am actually not defending pence here, but, he may believe that his silence is protecting him. He was there, he did learn/know in no uncertain terms what was going on, and that he is, not just was, in danger. This entire mess is of course not just one deranged ass at the top, there are a lot of moving pieces, and some of those may not have actually shown up on Jan 6, but are in the wings and could still be dangerous.
This entire event, Jan 6, is basically the culmination of SFB’s life of money and ignorance. In his mind it was necessary because he believes he is who he thinks he is, not because of any reality.
Juju
@Mai Naem mobileI: Hahahaha.
Ruckus
@Kay:
This. Absolutely this.
Dangerman
@Omnes Omnibus:
If he came completely clean, he wouldn’t be able to be in public golfing again. Becoming Mr. Clean would equal pissing off someone in a very, very big way.
Kathleen
@WaterGirl: Wow. Sure seems to confirm what we all thought about why he didn’t get into that car. Chilling.
Omnes Omnibus
@Dangerman:
Practicalities aside, I like the idea of making him agree to give up golf.
Kathleen
@Kay: Really good point, Kay. That’s my general philosophy for living and it seems to be working so it’s nice to get your take that it can work in a larger context.
mvr
@LAO: Condolences on the loss of your father. And best wishes with respect to your mom’s treatment. All of that at once is a lot.
MattF
@Omnes Omnibus: Maybe a no-grifting clause. And dig up Ivana, just because.
Kathleen
@Omnes Omnibus: WHAT????? You mean Do Something Garland Twitter may have had limited understanding of what it takes to prosecute cases of this magnitude? Next you’ll be telling me about the Easter Bunny (I never had closure when I was a child).
SFBayAreaGal
@Alison Rose: Doesn’t the name “Sinister” beg to be investigated? 😂 I picture the company looking like Mordor.
geg6
@rikyrah:
I, too, am not a fan, but that’s pretty awesome.
Barbara
@UncleEbeneezer: Regarding the other six co-conspirators, I assume that they will be given the opportunity to serve as witnesses. However, in order to do that, they will almost certainly need to be “removed from jeopardy” one way or another. So they could already be pursuing plea agreements with them, with deferred sentencing. It might work for some and not others, but you don’t usually need everyone, and any testimony elicited under oath could be used against the others in future trials.
At least three times a day (less often than before) I shake my head and say disbelievingly, “they did this for Donald Fucking Trump.” They blew up their careers, risked prison, brought ignominy on their families — for Donald Fucking Trump. The disconnect between Trump and what most of these people profess to believe on a normal day before he entered their headspace is too wide. The disconnect between them and me is too wide. I will never get over it.
Sheldon Vogt
@LAO: Sorry you joined the club. (My dad went two months ago.)
Wishing you comfort and strength, and healing for your mom.
Trivia Man
@Ohio Mom: I agree- lack of a pitched battle between competing political civilians saved us from BOTH SIDES and a call for “a few days to sort things out”.
the other tipping point in my mind was Pence showing up, then sticking around through the delay. A day or two before Grassley was bragging publicly that HE would be holding the gavel. Had that been the case I think it likely he would have made some batshit rulings. Maybe recognize an alternate slate of electors with no debate or something else.
I still have trouble wrapping my head around Dan Quayle being the voice of sanity and Mike Pence standing firm.
p.a.
@SFBayAreaGal:
CEO: Boris Badenov
CFO: Snidley Whiplash
HR: Natasha Fatale
Ruckus
@MisterForkbeard:
Trump did a seriously bad thing and he obviously did it, took real direct actions that were illegal.
They are going with this because it is the actual truth. Now it hasn’t been proven in court, it’s not the PROVEN truth, but from a perspective that most of us saw in real time, this is the only possible truth.
Baud
@Omnes Omnibus:
I would require him to provide community service as a caddy.
Jackie
Has an actual Arraignment TIME been set for tomorrow? I’ve found plenty of info that TIFG will be arraigned tomorrow, but no actual time for him to report.
SFBayAreaGal
What does SFB mean?
Alison Rose
@SFBayAreaGal: When investigators went to the company, they stood outside and yelled out “Let the lord of the black land come forth!”
Alison Rose
@SFBayAreaGal: I believe “stupid fat bastard” although I always read it wrong and think they’re talking about that little crypto jerk.
Immanentize
@LAO: hi there LAO!
So sorry to hear about all the crap that came you way. Wishing your Mom health and you the strength you need to get through it all.
Andrew Weissman is still a dick.
Sister Golden Bear
@Immanentize:
Second to flip gets a set of steak knives (and a moderate sentence).
Everyone else gets
firedto die in prison.Jackie
@SFBayAreaGal: Ruckus’s pet name for TIFG is Shit For Brains 😁
MattF
@Barbara: I tend to attribute that sort of thing to the Law of Truly Large Numbers, an adage from statistics asserting that if your sample size is large enough, you will see some extremely unlikely events. Yes, giving up your reputation and career for Donald Fucking Trump is very unlikely, but on a national scale, it will happen.
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud:
Why do you hate golfers? Oh, never mind. It’s kind of a twofer.
narya
@SFBayAreaGal: Or shit for brains, I suppose . . .
MattF
@SFBayAreaGal: Shit-for-brains.
Barbara
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Regarding the Fifth Amendment right against incrimination. Most witnesses who face jeopardy ask to be excused from testifying on the grounds that they won’t waive their rights, making their testimony useless because all they will do is sit on the stand and assert a right against self-incrimination. This came up multiple times in the J6 trial of Enrique Tarrio, who insisted that Sean Lamond with the MPD would testify that Tarrio was an authorized informant who helped the police, but Lamond refused to testify because he was under investigation for among other things, giving confidential information to Tarrio. Tarrio will likely appeal based on the allegation that the government intentionally made Lamond unavailable for his defense. Lamond has since been indicted.
More likely, government would enter into plea agreements with deferred sentencing. Then, the witness would no longer be in jeopardy and therefore would not be incriminating themselves with testimony.
SFBayAreaGal
@p.a.: I love this. Rocky and Bullwinkle to the rescue.
Mary C
Brilliant code-switching summary of the indictment by “Fooler Initiative,” a lawyer who tweeted immediately after the indictment dropped, working through page by page. She got about halfway through by 1 AM and says she will finish today after morning docket. https://twitter.com/metroadlib/status/1686514414545932288
Soprano2
@Kay: Isn’t it funny how the MAGA’s don’t see what Comey did in reopening the investigation of Hillary, or any of the FBI investigation of her in 2016, as “election interference” at all.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: Easy. I’ll just add “and that’s why it’s all the Dems fault!”
SFBayAreaGal
Thank you to all that answered my SFB question.
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer:
That.Might,Just.Work.
Soprano2
@rikyrah: In spite of that the MAGAs still say that it was “false flag”, that the people who caused the violence were actually Democrats. So yeah, it’s a good thing they knew to stay far, far away.
Ruckus
@Mike in NC:
Trump
wasis a fucking psychopath…..He hasn’t changed or gotten help or gotten better. He is the same person he was when he ran, when he was in office, and today. He is also convinced and has been for most of his life that he is better than
most, everyone else, no matter the massive amount of evidence to the contrary.ETtheLibrarian
Beau of the 5th Column has used language like this, but not sure if that is where you heard it.
Geminid
@MattF: Also, Trump the person was magnified by the office of President. He was bigger than life even for many of the people who hated him.
trollhattan
It is Roseville, so checks out.
Soprano2
@MisterForkbeard: Problem for them is, I don’t think the military would have gone along with them.
trollhattan
@Ruckus: Hey now, per a senator from Maine he’s learned his lesson.
Lesson may or may not be “do harder, next time.”
patrick II
@Frankensteinbeck:
I have seen videos of Trump testifying under oath and he was surprisingly clear and a good witness for himself. There are five differences though.
1. He is older and noticeably less coherent than he was in the video I saw.
2. He has publicly said things he won’t be able to unsay.
3. There are too many witnesses, some with their own high level of prestige.
4. The charges are more complicated than he has had to deal with before.
5. And, finally because of a large amount of true real-world events he would have to counter with complex, consistent interwoven lies. I don’t think it is possible.
Soprano2
@Alison Rose: You must not know about the Clinton Murder List. They think the Clintons were directly or indirectly responsible for over 100 murders!
Omnes Omnibus
@Soprano2:
Socks used to smother people in their sleep.
Old School
@p.a.:
Has Simon Bar Sinister retired or something?
raven
@eclare: Yea, the reason I posted it was because he said it.
Omnes Omnibus
@Old School:
General Counsel.
Suzanne
@Barbara:
RIGHT?!?!
Like, my dream life is to somehow come into some money, design and build my own house in some charming little New England town, and spend my time keeping my cute house and garden, hanging out with my kids and my dog(s), reading, doing yoga, occasionally having lunch in town, etc. Travel like 3-4 times a year. Like, these people have all made enough money, many times over, to have my dream life. And they are totally flushing it down the toilet…. for Donald Fucken Trump. Like, I cannot fathom the mindset.
mvr
@Sheldon Vogt:
@Alison Rose:
My condolences to both of you as well. Losing a parent is hard.
Jay
@Alison Rose:
MAGAt type Companies and Brands go all in on “edgy/edgelord” names.
Omnes Omnibus
@Suzanne:
Building an underground lair with a moat defended by sharks with frickin’ lasers and trying to take over the world makes more sense than burning down your life for Trump.
Soprano2
@trollhattan: We have a towing company here that did this. The owner “got off” with a fine and probation, but now he’s in jail because he kept using the altered trucks even though he was told not to!
patrick II
@Low Key Swagger:
Melber definitely said that last night. I thought it was a very nice metaphor. It also made me think I should read more before I comment.
On the other side though, Baud (I think) wrote if you don’t know something, rather than ask a question on the internet, state your opinion — no less than five people will immediately correct you. So internet ignorance can serve its purpose in carrying the conversation forward. Actually, I think that, when done in good faith, that is one of the internet’s great talents. (if a thing can have a talent — I’ll have to read up on that.
Soprano2
@LAO: I’m so sorry, it puts my bad day yesterday into some perspective.
patrick II
@Suzanne:
Amen. Some are vile in their own right, butI don’t understand what the rest are thinking.
Baud
@patrick II:
It’s actually Cunningham’s Law.
ETA: Oooh. I see what you did there.
Soprano2
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: It’s just another way of saying “There are a lot of black people in Washington, D.C.”
Alison Rose
@mvr: Thank you <3
p.a.
@Suzanne: Heh, this is what Atrios often says about people like Elmo, Zuck, Thiel etc; with all their $$$ why the fork don’t they just buy a hilltop town in Tuscany and enjoy life?!?
patrick II
@Baud:
Thanks, I knew someone would correct me if wrong.
MinuteMan
@OzarkHillbilly: Corollary: Presidents are not kings and the defendant is not president and must never be so again.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@patrick II: akshully, you were right, but not in the way you thought you were…. (1/219)
Gvg
@MisterForkbeard: radar detectors? Never heard of anybody going to jail for selling those, and few people even got hassled for having one.
LAO
@Immanentize: he certainly is. But I guess he’s my (our) dick now?
Tenar Arha
@LAO: Glad to see you. My condolences on your father, best wishes for remission & a heartfelt fuck cancer for your mother, & a “shakes fist” in solidarity from me as another only daughter who was primary caretaker. Seriously, do whatever you have to & save your energy.
geg6
@Honus:
Not in PA. Governor Wolf appointed the PA SoS. They were trying to get the PA SC (probably wasn’t going to happen) and legislature (at the time, GOPers had both houses) to install the fake electors.
Soprano2
@Omnes Omnibus: OMG, I looked at that site once. It was things like “Bill Clinton’s chiropractor died in a small plane crash”. It was insane the deaths they were saying were murders.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@LAO: LOL! I’m a Weissman fan (because he’s on our side!) but I think of your observation every time I see him on TV
Pittsburgh Mike
@Chief Oshkosh: Pretty sure that calling them “co-conspirator <n>” is an indication that they’re going to get charged in the same conspiracy.
Miss Bianca
@Geminid: You are describing the 2020 election now, not the 2024 one you cited in your previous post.
ETA: Never mind. There’s nothing like belaboring a joke when the other party isn’t getting it.//
Immanentize
@LAO: his hot takes are often uninformed and his predictions are crap. When he describes procedure he leaves out critical aspects. Did he suffer some head injury after leaving DOJ? Or was he always this pundity? Sheesh.
Shana
@Jackie: Said by a moron who thinks everyone living in DC is Black. While it may have been majority Black years ago, it has diversified a lot over the last few decades and may (I can’t look it up right now) be evenly split between Black and White or majority White.
I’m including Hispanic/Latino in with White, of which there is also a large population in the city.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
interesting… I listen to most of his takes with the unspoken “Here’s how I would have done a better job than
MuellerGarlandSmith…”One thing that bugs me is he often refers back to the Mueller investigation, and what they did or didn’t do or as if Rod Rosenstein was uninvolved.
Also, Congress, but he’s got too many co-religionists in that belief to count.
Ruckus
@Geminid:
Pence is in a rather tight spot. And he knows it.
He has no political life going forward. He seems to be an honest person, he seems to have been against the entire thing from the beginning but he doesn’t have the personality to come right out and say, well, much of anything. It’s not who he is.
Miss Bianca
@LAO: Glad to see you back, but sorry to hear about all that’s been going on for you. My condolences.
piratedan
for me, the surprise is the response from the media on this… us jackals have been fully invested in the series of events leading up to and post J6. It’s almost as if they’ve rediscovered that an attempted coup that took place and they were there, recording it, reporting on it was actually a big fucking deal and that the events and people that put all of this in motion could actually be criminals. I understand that there’s a certain myopia involved but this shit has been happening in plain sight for a couple of years now and to just now, supposedly, clue into the idea that this could be really bad seemingly has never permeated. It’s amazing how they’re completely free to speculate on anything that drops from a GOP operatives lips as being plausible and yet this… the implications to our nation, society have just been shrugged off. Perhaps its the scope….
LAO
@Immanentize: well, ever since he sent FBI agents to my apartment to threaten me, I try never to give him too much credit. Head injury makes sense though.
LAO
@Miss Bianca: thank you.
and a general thank you to all for the commiserations. I appreciate it.
Omnes Omnibus
@LAO:
Yowsa!
PAM Dirac
@Shana:
Population breakdown from the US Census for DC (July 1,2022)
Race and Hispanic Origin
White alone, percent
46.2%
Black or African American alone, percent(a)
45.0%
American Indian and Alaska Native alone, percent(a)
0.7%
Asian alone, percent(a)
4.7%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander alone, percent(a)
0.2%
Two or More Races, percent
3.2%
Hispanic or Latino, percent(b)
11.7%
White alone, not Hispanic or Latino, percent
37.5%
Shana
@smith: My recollection, as a fairly tied in resident of the DC suburbs who might have been convinced to go counterdemonstrate what everyone knew would be a shit show, was that the left was pretty vocal about not showing up and giving anyone an excuse to beat the crap out of you.
Barbara
@Shana: They will insist as they did after J6 that it’s not a racial thing at all, but a political thing, that DC voters routinely go 90/10 for Democrats. They can’t explain why that matters, but the fact that they want to move it to West Virginia, rather than Alexandria or Green Belt more or less gives away the lie. It’s pretty clear West Virginia isn’t more “diverse” than suburban Virginia or Maryland. I doubt if you or I are strong candidates for the jury.
Brit in Chicago
@zhena gogolia: Rick Wilson said it (that an unpunished coup is a training exercise) in an interview on MSNBC in October 2021.
Ruckus
@Dangerman:
I don’t see the equivalent of a Murrow or a Cronkite emerging from the Right.
Conservatism has gone off the deep end.
I’d bet not all conservatives but the US concept of conservatism has taken the cannonball dive off the high board.
They are losing a position, and I believe they are seeing their power diminish and lessen. Or at least think it has and are getting desperate. Yes there are a number of red states. But many/most of them have well populated cities that vote blue. Their support is mostly from people that don’t see the change of modern life because they don’t want to see it. They want what they think/believe was. The world is changing around them and they hate change, which is why they are conservatives. But the world moves forward regardless. This isn’t the same world it was when I was born, hell it isn’t the same world as the one a 30 yr old was born into. And change comes faster now, like it or not. It moves faster because there are more of us, more younger people, more communications, hell it hasn’t been all that long ago that this thing we are communicating on didn’t exist or exist in it’s current form. We carry a phone/computer in our pockets/purse wherever we go. We can purchase a computer OTC that is faster/better than the most expensive computer 25-30 yrs ago. Hell my phone is better/faster than that computer. Life moves on. Life moves forward. It has for centuries, it just does it faster now. And there are people that can not get that, there always has been and always will be.
NotMax
@Jackie
From what I’ve read, 4 o’clock on Thursday.
Bill Arnold
@Chief Oshkosh:
Yep. (Well, life in prison, not the traditional hanging/drawing/quartering.) These fuckers were willing to risk a probable civil war to stay in power. As one whose ancestors killed Southern CSA traitors in the early 1860s, nope.. There would have been blood, a lot of blood. Their personal lives (and the lives of their families) would not have been safe. They would not have been allowed to seize power without seriously opposition, which would have turned quite violent.. And they should be tried and if found guilty, severely punished for making the attempt, even if it was inept and opportunistic and driven by legal fig leaves.
Kosh III
“How does no one go to jail for something like that?”
For the same reason no one went to jail for crashing the economy in the Bush Recession of 2008-9. I’m looking at you Jamie Dimon and Goldman Sachs and a bunch of other Wall Street crooks.
Burnspbesq
@Baud:
Link?
billcinsd
@Hoodie: The other real scandal is that while $1 million sounds like a lot, it is probably less than 2 years revenue on the kits assuming a $30 cost per kit. So Sinister did not get fined enough to likely even change their behavior
Honus
@Barbara: In fact, West Virginia is one of least diverse states, both demographically and politically. It was racially diverse when I went to high school in the 1960s, but now it’s pretty much all white and 80-90% republican. Which I guess counts as diversity to a MAGAT.
DC, OTOH, is pretty much equally divided racially:
District Of Columbia Demographics
According to the most recent ACS, the racial composition of District Of Columbia was:
Black or African American: 44.66%
White: 40.46%
Two or more races: 5.69%
Other race: 4.76%
Asian: 4.1%
Native American: 0.29%
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander: 0.05%
Omnes Omnibus
@Burnspbesq:
Here you go.
billcinsd
@Barbara: and yet DC’s Republican vote share in 2020 was about 5%
billcinsd
@MisterForkbeard: 36000 was over just two of the years in which they sold those devices, IIRC
billcinsd
@UncleEbeneezer: Yo have no way of knowing this is true
Omnes Omnibus
@billcinsd:
What is truth? said jesting Pilate; and would not stay for an answer.
Baud
@Burnspbesq:
https://www.courtlistener.com/docket/67490069/97/united-states-v-trump/
rikyrah
@LAO:
So sorry for your loss and what you’re going through. Drop back online when you can.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
Pence, no matter his one time position, is a light weight. OK, yes, I am a far lighter lightweight than he is but still, in the business of national politics, Pence is a lightweight. And not to be truly defending him, he has spoken out reasonably about his prior boss. At least reasonably for him.
NotMax
@Ruckus
But- but- he’s Mother approved.
//
Matt McIrvin
@Jackie: The Constitution says a trial must happen in the state where the crime was committed, and the state in which it was committed was the state of whiteness, so QED checkmate libs.
Ruckus
@Ken:
Farewell, adieu, do not let the door hit you on the way out.
Nice way to show him the door. And warn him that it very likely won’t open up for him ever again.
Ruckus
@NotMax:
Yeah but it was only his wife’s approval and she’s likely biased.
NotMax
@Ruckus
I may be alone in remembering that at the 2017 inaugural balls, all the females in or married into Dolt 45’s family were outfitted in gold gowns, the same in Pence’s family all wore silver.
Dan B
@NotMax: Egads! It’s like Junior Prom. With a nod to militarism. Or maybe Junior Prom in Pyongyang.
Ruckus
@Mai Naem mobileI:
This guy had a good scam going and he screwed himself out of it.
He wouldn’t be him if he hadn’t of.
Ruckus
@trollhattan:
Hey now, per a senator from Maine he’s learned his lesson.
I call bull and shit.
He’s not smart enough to learn anything and is mistakenly convinced that he is the greatest. (He once heard Ali call himself the greatest and stole that. His problem is of course Ali was correct and ShitForBrains is not within a bazillion miles of correct)