I think there was a West Wing episode where one of the White House aides noticed a federal judge was issuing opinions in iambic pentameter. He (the judge) probably figured nobody would notice.
I’m reading the latest Trump indictment, and while it’s not in iambic pentameter, it has poetry.
The document accuses Trump of grounding the three criminal conspiracies for which he’s charged on mistrust created by the “pervasive and destabilizing lies” Trump told about election fraud. When I read those words, I recalled the dumb “stop the steal” rallies on the courthouse lawn in my nowhere little town.
The best poetry evokes images and puts you in the moment. I salute the use of those on-point adjectives.
My guess is Trump is unimpressed with the wordsmithing because he hasn’t read the indictment. Flunkies probably had to create a deck with no more than three bullets per page and one graphic on each.
Maybe Trump is interested in numerology, as many crackpots are? If so, perhaps the fact that it’s a 45-page indictment will catch his piggy little eye. Or, as someone in comments noted,* that he now faces a total of 45 federal counts.
Open thread.
*I haven’t double-checked, so maybe that’s wrong. But it’s a poetic touch if true.
Baud
I hope he gets 45 Years.
raven
“Sometimes American politics feels like a spirited book club where no one’s read the book. ” He actually said it in 2019 as well as last night.
Chief Oshkosh
Dolt 45, baby!
And although I disagree with him on many issues, I think Dartgnan over at TGOS has it [the Trump plan] about right: Disenfanchise all Democrats and shoot them in the streets if they protested.
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2023/8/2/2184459/-Trump-s-plan-was-to-disenfranchise-all-Democrats-and-shoot-us-the-streets-if-we-protested
ETA bracketed text
Old School
I don’t think the indictment is much of a scandal. I haven’t seen anyone add a “-gate” suffix to it yet.
narya
The other thing that amused me last night was that someone on MSNBC dubbed it a “shouting” indictment, rather than a speaking indictment.
schrodingers_cat
@raven: Especially true of people yelling, do something, on social media.
Hildebrand
One of the Pod Save America guys mockingly noted that Smith is a ‘scab/strike breaker’ because his writing is so good. And it is, he tells the story so clearly, so effectively, it’s like the January 6 commission all over again – these folks just know what they are doing, and they are among some of the best communicators we have seen in government for some time.
Gvg
I don’t care about 45 indictments because i don’t think we are done yet. He hasn’t been charged with everything yet. I am not sure he has even quit committing more crimes.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
@Gvg: It’s a safe bet he hasn’t, and that he never will, not as long as he’s still breathing.
Old Man Shadow
I truly hope Smith and company prove me wrong and the system can hold this rogue domestic terrorist accountable for his crimes against the nation and our ideals.
And I hope they prove me wrong and Trump does go to prison along with his conspirators.
And I hope they are smart enough to realize that if he is sent to prison, that prison will become a target for deranged supporters hoping to help him escape and that there might be sympathizers within the law enforcement people running that prison.
patrick II
@Gvg:
He hasn’t. He will commit a few more today.
robmassing
Trump wouldn’t recognize good wordsmithing if it grabbed him by the
...now I try to be amused
In an earlier time someone close to Trump would have left a [*ahem*] on his desk by now.
Omnes Omnibus
@Old Man Shadow: Well, the first step is indicting him, and they have done that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@patrick II: not a doubt in my mind that Walt Nauta and other witnesses are the object of on-going witness tampering, by trump, his kids, his lawyers….. I don’t know how much of that can or will be recorded
Suzanne
@Chief Oshkosh: I think they want to shoot us in the streets whether we protest or not.
Old School
schrodingers_cat
Will the Republican party lose the white vote if they run an indicted criminal as their nominee.
Who am I kidding, that’s never going to happen.
Immanentize
Personally, trochaic octameter best suits my writing style.
Trump! A man who understood naught.
Lost a prize with violence sought,
Ran his mouth ’til charges Jack brought.
Jail and prison? Crimin’ Trump caught.
p.a.
The best thing abt tRump’s continuous criming is his continuous real-time admissions and brags abt his criming. If there are degrees of Dunning-Kruger they should name the worst after tRump.
different-church-lady
@Old School: “Prosecute-a-criminal-gate” just doesn’t roll off the tongue.
different-church-lady
@schrodingers_cat: A political part might. A cult of personality won’t.
Brachiator
We need Trump limericks.
There once was a grifter named Trump
Who on this great country did dump
But he soon was indicted
And all were excited
To see Trump get kicked in his rump
Alison Rose
@narya: That was Melber, too! (Along with the book club comment.) I know a lot of people here seem to loathe him, but he’s got a way with words.
Alison Rose
@Old School: I’ve often wondered what the media would’ve done if Watergate had happened at like, a Marriott or something and we couldn’t add -gate to every damn scandal in existence.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
So in “All The President’s Men II”, who plays what part?
different-church-lady
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: You won’t see it at first, but: Jack Black as Trump.
dww44
@Alison Rose: Based on comments in some of last night’s threads, I believe that Chris Hayes has moved to the head of the line as being the most disliked MSNBC host among the commentariat here.
different-church-lady
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: The roles of the dogged reporters who crack open the case despite the resistance of their employers are played by… oh, wait, those characters aren’t in the sequel.
raven
@Alison Rose: There is no one here that someone doesn’t like and will be quick to let everyone know it.
raven
@dww44: Buchcha dorks.
different-church-lady
@dww44: He seems to be the quickest one to “…and it’s the Dems fault” every time.
Anyway
I haven’t watched Hayes much (and skipped TV yesterday) – my most disliked MSNBC host is Alex Wagner. I checked her out a few times after she took over the 9pm slot and could only bear to watch a few minutes. Style, content, choice of topics — everything is awful.
VOR
@different-church-lady: Yep. At this point, TFG could eat a baby live on TV and the cult would find a way to excuse it.
Alison Rose
@different-church-lady: I can definitely see it.
With a smooth shave and the right haircut and dye, Michael Cera could be Jared. Emma Roberts as Ivanka.
Immanentize
@dww44: The “Garland must do something now” crowd lost their audience when something was done. But they have decided to double down with that stupid hot take and are now playing the back up long game of criticizing Dems:
“Trump would have lost if Garland and Biden had indicted Trump sooner!!”
satby
Popehat on all the lies the right is throwing at the wall to see what sticks.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@dww44: I don’t dislike Hayes, but I take all of his takes with a large Tara Reade shaped grain of salt. He’s book-smart, but inside of him, and not that deep down, is a Brown sophomore wearing a “Not A Dime’s Worth of Difference” T-shirt
Alison Rose
@dww44: Which is a bit of a shame to me because, while yes he can be petulant sometimes, he often offers very strong commentary against the GOP and their bullshit. Plus he wrote one of my favorite articles ever, so I give him a bit of leeway.
zhena gogolia
@Hildebrand: I have to do a little more work, then I’m going to read this sucker.
different-church-lady
@Alison Rose: And the smirkiness He could definitely pull off the general smirkiness, even if it wasn’t 100% identical.
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: Black is far too likable.
Brachiator
@dww44:
Has he changed his views or something. I don’t watch many news shows or pay attention to hosts, but I have seen him mostly go after Trump and the GOP on the few episodes I’ve seen.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
Rudy Giuliani in Vile New Audio Transcripts: ‘Jewish Men Have Small Cocks
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia: But he knows how to play asshole. That tension is pure Trump.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@different-church-lady:
Amazing that we didn’t seem to have that this time around.
patrick II
@Old School:
-gate is a suffix meant to attach criminal intent to an otherwise innocent word — Watergate.
Insurrectiongate would be redundant.
MattF
@satby: An excellent Popehat post.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
Rudy’s spokesman really shouldn’t have taken “noun-verb-9/11” literally.
Alison Rose
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: just me with my eyes bugging out of my skull
also “get over the Passover” like Christians have gotten over the crucifixion?
HumboldtBlue
Of all the galling things about this ever-galling asshole is the privilege on display. Trump SHOULD be in custody for the Natsec documents he kept and flashed around like trophies, but he’s not, anyone else would be, and it’s because the privilege of having been president and wealth.
different-church-lady
@satby: This is why I’m glad Twitter is dead — who knew he did valuable long-form content when all anyone would link is his Tweets?
narya
@dww44: I’m the outlier who likes him. I appreciated what he did during the pandemic (especially with Drs. Hotez and Fauci), and I like a lot of what he does. While he definitely was (wrongly) critical of Garland last night, I was genuinely surprised by it–I watch him every night, and I had not picked that up. (That is, he doesn’t beat that drum relentlessly.) I also appreciate his podcasts; they’re deep dives, and many have been quite interesting. I can take Maddow in weekly doses, O’Donnell occasionally, but Wagner and Ruhle not at all. I watch so little political TV, though.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alison Rose: Each one is more appalling than the last except that each one also is more appalling than the one that follows.
ETA: Come on, Passover was so much earlier. You guys have had time to get over it. Also, I have personal issues with a policy of killing first born Gentiles.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Alison Rose:
He’s a truly disgusting chucklefuck. Borat 2 was on the mark.
trollhattan
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Does that make Rudy a schmuck or a putz? Going with the second.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Omnes Omnibus:
That feels like one of those “singularity at the beginning/end of all the multiverse” statements.
Alison Rose
@Omnes Omnibus: One wonders how he knows anything about Jewish men’s cocks.
MattF
@trollhattan: He’s at least a binomial— schmucky putz, flaming asshole, etc.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
OT
I can’t believe he’s still trying to fight on this hill, except that I can. I am a little surprised that Fox News is helping him keep digging, but maybe Harris Faulkner thinks if he gets the nomination it’ll be her ticket to a prime time slot, at long last
Brachiator
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
I’m more interested in Giuliani’s efforts to undermine the government than in his vile remarks. This does, I guess, confirm that he is a despicable person, but we knew that already.
I don’t know who this Dunphy person might be.
different-church-lady
@Alison Rose: ONE DIDN’T WONDER IT UNTIL YOU DID THIS TO US!
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@trollhattan:
This is one of those moments when I really regret the retirement of so many older Jewish lawyers from the legal profession here. They had some really inventive Yiddish phrases that they could apply and inform with. The younger Jewish men and women here have pretty well ditched most of that expressive culture.
Spanky
@trollhattan: No, it makes Rudy a beady-eyed ambulatory piece of shit.
Alison Rose
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Next time he says anything like this (somewhere other than Fox where they won’t challenge him), a reporter should ask “So do you wish you’d been a slave? If you could time travel, would you want to go back to the early 19th century as a Black man and be enslaved? You know, since you would have learned so many wonderful skills and all.”
different-church-lady
@Brachiator:
So is Jack Smith.
Alison Rose
@different-church-lady: Mea culpa!
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: He’s not just pretending to be a Nazi.
rikyrah
@judgeluttig (@judgeluttig) posted at 8:40 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
I was traveling yesterday, but I gave CNN @jamiegangel a statement on the indictment of the former president for his efforts to overturn the 2020 presidential election and for the January 6 attack on the United States Capitol.
Among other things, I said:
@judgeluttig (@judgeluttig) posted at 8:40 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
This is an historic, tragic, and regrettable day for America.
@judgeluttig (@judgeluttig) posted at 8:40 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
This day is all the more tragic and regrettable because the former president has cynically chosen to inflict this embarrassing spectacle on the Nation — and a spectacle it will be.
@judgeluttig (@judgeluttig) posted at 8:40 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
January 6 and the effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election, together with the first criminal trials of an American president, will now become singularly infamous events in American history.
@judgeluttig (@judgeluttig) posted at 8:40 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
For the first time in history, an American president will be on criminal trial in multiple venues — federal and state — during a presidential campaign in which he will be the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party for the Presidency of the United States of America.
@judgeluttig (@judgeluttig) posted at 8:40 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
Never again will the world be inspired by America’s democracy in the way that it has been inspired since America’s founding almost 250 years ago.
@judgeluttig (@judgeluttig) posted at 8:40 AM on Wed, Aug 02, 2023:
These events will forever scar and stain the United States. And they will forever scar and stain the United States in the eyes of the world.
(https://twitter.com/judgeluttig/status/1686733794332774400?t=ovejqtmWaBV607NnbjJsoA&s=03)
Omnes Omnibus
@Brachiator: We are sorry that we took our eyes off the ball to marvel at the awfulness of Rudy’s character. Thank you for that chastisement. We will endeavor to be more serious in the future.
Geminid
@dww44: Chis Hayes has been on my shit list since June, 2020
Edit: I don’t watch the guy, but I wonder if anyone who does ever saw him explain his attempt to promote Tara Reide’s scurrilous lies.
MazeDancer
Chris Hayes has been President of the Bernie Bro Fan Club for quite some time. Part of the attack Hillary group.
Tiny D on Twitter, today, bloviating about the indictment while including that he hadn’t read the indictment is so wrong.
As Stephanie Ruhle said last night – you are either running for president or you’re not. And supporting Trump, not trying to bring him down, means you’re not. You could be running for VP. But you ain’t gunning for the top job,
HumboldtBlue
Democ… Republicans in disarray!dww44
@Immanentize: I’m actually one of those in the camp of Garland dithered with the little ones far too long. And was only brought around by the Jan. 6 hearings. In an evening piece at the Washington Post, Jennifer Rubin started off with this:
Then she noted this:
She also said that the real heroes of all of this were the January 6 committee hearings. Without those, likely nothing would have happened. The whole piece is worth a read.
zhena gogolia
@rikyrah: I totally disagree. The spectacle will be inspiring, the envy of many people in the world.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
minimizing slavery is, of course, not new for DeSantis (link to the dread NYT)
zhena gogolia
@dww44: Thanks, Ms. Benghazi.
H.E.Wolf
@patrick II:
You’re right: that’s how “-gate” is used now.
The original Watergate scandal was so named because Nixon’s “plumbers” burgled the National Democratic Party’s headquarters, located in the Watergate Office Building.
I can remember my grandfather pointing out the famous silhouette of “the Watergate” some years later, as we rode past it in a taxi. :-)
Brachiator
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
This is repulsive bullshit on so many levels. It also falsely implies that slavery was only for a short period of time and was quickly followed by emancipation.
Yes, there were enslaved people who acquired skills. But these skills were ultimately used for the benefit of those who exploited them. And most slaves died and never had any opportunity to use their skills for their own benefit or for the benefit of their families.
Again, DeSantis defiles history and insults black people.
Subsole
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Sigh.
It always comes back to dong size with fascists.
Every. Damn. Time.
It really is just a giant friggin’ midlife crisis.
patrick II
@narya:
I like Chris Hayes too, and for some of the things he is criticized for here — I don’t mind booksmart. I have also seen him give some powerful rants with some real depth about the conservative intended dystopia. But he is just a very bad interviewer of conservatives. His bookishness works against him. They run all over him. And he is a critic of Garland (as am I), which doesn’t go over well here, but last night especilly was just the wrong night to be making that point.
AM in NC
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: I will say it again, how about we try letting the world be run by post-menopausal women?* They have seen everything; most of them have developed the patience of saints out of necessity; they understand the importance of sharing, fairness, and being kind; and It seems like everyone else is just too freaking hormonal to be trusted to make rational decisions when needed.
Generally ain’t grandma running around obsessed with the size of somebody’s junk and claiming someone’s body parts as their personal amusement park.
*Only mildly serious
Baud
@dww44:
Seems speculative. It could be correct, but there’s nothing to hang your hat on. Alternative histories are the new religion.
MazeDancer
Jack Smith is 54?
Clean living and Ironman Training pays off.
Looks much younger.
Tiny D looks much older than his alleged 44. Because evil ages.
Baud
@AM in NC:
We tried that in 2016.
dww44
@zhena gogolia: Is that a genuine thanks to Jennifer Rubin? I honestly am not sure how to take your remark.. What I do know is that when Rubin disavowed Trump and the Republican party she did so without reservations. And that piece is a clear and succinct summation of the events leading up to yesterday’s indictment of Trump.
Subsole
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Also, too:
Ew.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Wow, very interesting.
zhena gogolia
@dww44: I’m not taking Garland criticism from someone who cheerled for the Benghazi investigation. I’ll give her credit when she’s right, but she’s wrong here. As are you.
Subsole
@trollhattan:
He’s kind of a marvel, is Rudy.
A schlemiel AND a schlimazel.
Spanky
OT for an OT thread: The shooter in Pittsburgh’s Tree of Life Synagogue attack has been sentenced to death.
JoyceH
@patrick II: Personally, I’m glad to see the retirement of -gate. Watergate was the great Ur-scandal of the 20th century and then for decades after, every penny-ante little kerfuffle got the -gate treatment. But honestly, Trump crime spree really leaves Watergate in the dust. I propose that henceforward, the new suffix for political scandals should be -a-Lago.
HumboldtBlue
@raven:
I’ve read that sentence, like, six time, and I’m still not sure what it means but I love it.
Brachiator
@Omnes Omnibus:
Odd. I only noted my own lack of interest. I didn’t chastise anyone else or suggest what anyone else should think about the post.
But hey, you be you.
Alison Rose
@MazeDancer: When I first learned how old DeSantis was, I refused to believe it and I still do. It’s not that he necessarily looks old, but he sure as shit doesn’t look nigh-45. When I first started seeing him everywhere, I thought he was early to mid 50s. I’m convinced he’s played a con on everyone since he was a preteen. FFS, Zelenskyy is 45! No fucking way those two are the same age.
(Before the pedants leap on me like a cheetah on a gazelle with a broken leg, I am kidding. I know Ronnie is the age he says he is.)
Ishiyama
Slaving destroyed African societies that had sophisticated technologies, from smelting to fabric production. Some people need to read Walter Rodney’s study, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa.
Sister Golden Bear
Knowles: Libs Want To Kill Trump, They Want Him Dead (Knowles is a Reich-wing influencer.)
Straight up Radio Rwanda shit. These aren’t conspiracy theories, they’re justification — and incitement — for violent action.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alison Rose:
Well, actually cheetahs don’t leap on gazelles, broken leg or not…
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@AM in NC:
Make it “post-menopausal black women”, and I’m in. There’s a depth of character and empathy there that doesn’t seem to be as evident with far too many of their caucasian counterparts.
zhena gogolia
Reading the indictment now. I think it was Alison Rose who said they should follow Randy Rainbow’s lead and call him “Donald Jessica Trump” all the way through. Then it would be perfect.
dww44
@Baud: Honestly, the piece is not alternative history. It is the opinion of Ms. Rubin, whose explanations are entirely rational and believable.
I have seen plenty of opinions shared elsewhere that pretty much come down on the side that Garland waited a bit too long and his hand was forced by the Jan. 6 committee. In his very mild mannered way, on the LOD show last evening, Lawrence Tribe said much the same thing about Garland’s waiting too long, while being very complementary about the speed and thoroughness of SC Smith.
Baud
@dww44:
How is this not alternative history? All alternative history is opinion.
I don’t care if people think Garland could have acted sooner. I care that they can’t let it go. That’s why it’s a religion. The world is moving on, but people want to cling to their old opinion-based grievances.
Immanentize
@dww44: Sorry, that is an opinion and your feelings about what has happened, but they seem unencumbered, I fear, by any understanding of criminal law, criminal procedure or what it takes to investigate a serious, complicated conspiracy.
People who want/ed fast indictments and resolution just want Trump’s idea of corrupted justice, but on our side. As has been said, Justice is a process, not a personally favored outcome.
Spanky
WaPo also wants us to know this:
I’m doomed.
zhena gogolia
@Spanky: Haha, early in the pandemic I read in the NYT that we should stop picking our noses.
BellyCat
Probably raised by another jackal, but the iambic pentameter judge was Eakins. This guy involved in a string of racist and misogynistic emails, and he resigned (amid an ethics inquiry) from the Pennsylvania Supreme Court in 2016. Linky
Omnes Omnibus
@Baud: Garland could have acted later. Or acted differently. Or not acted at all. I find the idea that very little was happening prior to the appointment of Smith to be frustrating. A metric shit ton of the ground work was done before that. That ground work allowed Smith to act quickly. But some people are wedded to the Garland is feckless theory.
Chief Oshkosh
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, Ron, you fucking asshole. What about the millions and millions of people who never “achieved their freedom” and died in slavery?
I think Ron, his wife, and his kids should be put in chains and set out in a Florida farm field for one – just one day – then lets ask him what skills he learned.
Immanentize
@AM in NC: never heard of “Moms for Liberty?”
smith
@Ishiyama: The unspoken assumption, of course, is that Black people who were enslaved were simple savages who would be unable to do anything much if it weren’t for the benevolent intereventions of their enslavers. It’s not just a racist argument, but a stupid one, as well, since anyone who attains adulthood has gained skills adaptive to their environment regardless of whether they are held in bondage or not.
Omnes Omnibus
@Immanentize: Co-sign.
Alison Rose
@Omnes Omnibus: I hope you can feel the heat of my glare at the laptop screen from…uh, wherever you live.
dww44
@zhena gogolia: What proof do you have that Rubin and I are wrong? You are entitled to believe what you believe, but her opinions, as are mine, are entirely valid ones to hold. Until the official account of this time are written for the history books or until witnesses stand up to settle the issue one way or the other, believing that Garland, an institutionalist through and through, waited too long to authorize a Special Counsel Investigation of Trump is entirely supportable.
Alison Rose
@zhena gogolia: Well remembered ;) I don’t know why but it cracks me up every time he says that.
karen marie
@dww44: They’re all useless. I don’t understand why any of them are admired. No matter how pretty the words, it’s all speculation all the time. My life isn’t long enough to waste time listening to cable “news” shows.
Omnes Omnibus
Possible active shooter at the Capitol.
LAO
@Immanentize: Well stated, I agree 100%.
Baud
@karen marie:
Agree. I’ve stopped almost completely with cable news.
PST
@dww44: I actually like the show Chris Hayes puts on better than most of the others. Yes, I disagree with some of his points of view, but he doesn’t spend a very high percentage of his broadcast expressing them. His show, like Nicole Wallace’s, is mostly guest oriented. He has good people on, asks reasonable questions most of the time, and lets them talk. These days, of course, it seems like the same few people over and over across all of MSNBC, but in ordinary times I learn more in his hour than most of the others. I have come to deeply dislike tuning into Rachel Maddow’s show. She’s fine when she’s the MC on election night (or last night for that matter), but otherwise it is her endless, winding narration. You can always tell where she’s going 15 minutes before she gets there. She’s like a Tucker Carlson in that regard, albeit in no other way. You don’t get much of that with Chris Hayes.
mrmoshpotato
Fixed. :)
ETA – no offense to Gru’s hilarious minions.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alison Rose: My work here is done. Time for a bike ride, I think.
Immanentize
@Omnes Omnibus: This. So important. Smith could only be named special because of all the investigative and legal work done before — especially vis a vis the J6 prosecutions.
Scout211
@Immanentize: Thank you for this.
To paraphrase the saying from yesterday that jackals are praising, you are one of the few here who has read the book for this “internet book discussion.”
Miss Bianca
@Immanentize:
OMG, thank you for this. The “Seize Him – Why Won’t/Didn’t They Just Seize Him!” crowd never ceases to be tiresome to me.
Ken
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Okay, I’m probably in tinfoil-hat territory here, but…
I vaguely recall back when Trump was elected, there were rumors that the reason so many Republicans fell in line so quickly was that Trump had dirt on them. I think the alleged source was some tabloid whose owner supported Trump, and who, according to these rumors, had a habit of buying and filing stories about politicians taking bribes, having affairs, calling their constituents inbred cretins, paying for their mistresses’ abortions, and so forth.
So now there are stories that Trump’s defense will claim that the evil mastermind Giuliani, among others, cruelly misled him as to the legality of staging a coup. And suddenly we hear about these offensive statements of Giuliani’s.
Shiny side out, shiny side out…
Almost Retired
@Omnes Omnibus: That gave me my best coffee-spewing laugh of the day….
OK, actually it was gin. I’m tired of practicing law.
Tenar Arha
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: not a lawyer, but I keep on thinking of all the words my father would use—like putz, schmuck, & shikker (no idea what “limp” or “disgusting” is in Yiddish but he also might have remembered those words too ;)
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Omnes Omnibus:
Boebert and MTG in a battle after their throuple blew up over whichever dude they roofied (OK, Gaetz. We know it was Gaetz) woke up and tagged in Gym Jordan?
Omnes Omnibus
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: FUCK YOU FOR MAKING ME PICTURE THAT!
Miss Bianca
@dww44: I don’t have any proof that you or Rubin are wrong, but it does seem to me that if experienced trial lawyers in the commentariat are telling you that you’re wrong, you might want to pay attention.
Or not. Seems like the “Garland can do no right” crowd can never admit *they* might be wrong.
satby
@different-church-lady: anyone who clicked through the tweets because they link to his long form commentary? Granted, not all of his tweets did. He’s on Blue Sky now, reason enough to be there.
mrmoshpotato
@Baud: I hope he gets 45,000 Years.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus: “In and around”? Holy hell.
Roger Moore
@Alison Rose:
IMO, the use of “-gate” is a sign a scandal isn’t serious (yet). It means the people pushing it don’t believe it is serious enough to stand on its own merit, so they need to tie it to a previous scandal to make people pay attention. If a scandal is really worth paying attention to, it can stand on its own. That’s why serious scandals- and even some that turned out to be nothingberders- can stand under their own names: Iran-Contra, Whitewater, Benghazi, January 6th, etc.
Scout211
OMFG. How is this for a great political fundraising pitch? And speaking of lies . . .
different-church-lady
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
One of which was based on slavery.
MazeDancer
@Alison Rose:
Zelensky=great man. Even under impossible stress, goodness shows.
DeeSantis=evil. Which always shows.
Alison Rose
@Omnes Omnibus: Hmmm…
Weird.
(She’s a CNN producer)
Brachiator
@Ishiyama:
Good point. But I doubt that there is any mention of the impact of the slave trade on African societies in any of the DeSantis approved education materials.
This crap includes a lot of PragerU nonsense and creeps back to an earlier era of racism that assumed that all African countries were primitive and undeveloped.
rikyrah
@HumboldtBlue:
they are broke too
LOL
different-church-lady
@MazeDancer:
Twitters aren’t real.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Almost Retired: I already showed my ass in a really stupid hearing with a lawyer I hate today, and am exhausted, too.
He was on zoom. I wasn’t, and kept shouting his whining ass drones down while insulting him and telling him he was lying and stripmining his client for fees. I’d have stopped, but the judge actually said “fellas, we can go on arguing all afternoon, and to tell the truth I’m enjoying it a little, but here’s what we’re going to do to fix this…”
Long story on how I was taking over for a lawyer who is now going to be a witness in the case, but his comment afterward with raised eyebrow was “I wouldn’t have gone as far as you did – I’d be afraid of jail – but damn if that didn’t work to focus her attention.”
I may actually have a little schoolboy crush on this particular judge, and she may kinda get that, which could bode trouble in my future.
different-church-lady
@HumboldtBlue:
Of course they do. They’re completely disconnected from reality, so what are the odds they’re going to invent the same story?
dww44
@Baud: Well, honestly, I think alternative history is far more than opinion proffered in an op-ed in a newspaper column. Per the Google, it “is a genre of speculative fiction in which one or more historical events have occurred but are resolved differently than in actual history.”
Holding the view that Garland waited too long somehow makes those who do so unwilling to let their grievances go? That seems extreme to me. It’s a difference of opinion we have. Is it fair to say that whose who hold the opposite view are somewhat defensive? That seems to be the case to me.
jonas
@Brachiator: This whole “black slaves learned valuable skills” canard is a very old racist trope meant to imply that back in Africa, they were a bunch of savages who had only recently descended from the trees and enslavement in America, albeit harsh, did have the upside of teaching them how to use tools and abstract thought and stuff. Fuck DeSantis and the pro-slavery propaganda he rode in on.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Brachiator:
That Booker T Washington cartoon comes to mind.
Its a reflection back to my own grade school, and is a really juvenile apologetic.
Omnes Omnibus
@dww44: I think you are mistaking frustration for defensiveness.
satby
Applicable to so many people. On our side as well as the die hard tfg-ers. And none of them see the resemblance.
different-church-lady
@Baud:
Fair people say, “He waited too long, but I’m glad he’s doing it now.”
People with an agenda say, “He waited to long.”
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
So do a lot of the frustrated.
Almost Retired
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: I feel you. Sometimes I miss being in court for hearings, notwithstanding the painful drive to downtown Los Angeles. I feel like my sighs and eye rolls don’t come across as clearly on Zoom.
Baud
@dww44:
No, continuing to constantly talk about it even after multiple major indictments is what makes it so.
Maybe those people just want the Garland haters to move on. Maybe history will vindicate you when the books are written, but that’s a ways off.
Litlebritdifrnt
@AM in NC: As a post menpausal woman I would agree. For instance I would solve the “Pro Life” “Pro Choice” debate in a couple of years. By Dec 31 in a given year everyone is required to register as “Pro life” or “Pro Choice”. On Jan 1 the following year the first baby born to a “pro choice” female who would otherwise have had an abortion is given to the first name on the “pro choice” list to raise until it is 18. For the following year all “pro lifers” are legally required to adopt the next baby on the “pro choice” mother list. I guarantee you that by the end of year one the “pro life” list will shrink, by year three it will be nothing. Make them put their money (and their lives) where their self righteous mouths are.
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: HOW DO THEY DEFINE TOO LONG? how do they know what “too long” is?
different-church-lady
@Immanentize:
[Ding] Correct answer.
oatler
@VOR:
“He never ate that baby. It was a combo of AI, CGI and CRT put on by wokeist MSM.”
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia:
I was just thinking that. Even if this had happened last summer people would still be screaming, “WHY DID IT TAKE SO LONG!?!”
Omnes Omnibus
@oatler:
The baby knows what it did.
different-church-lady
@oatler:
C’mon, everyone knows DeSantis is the baby-eater.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
“I’m a baby. I did a poo in my diaper. WHY AM I THE BAD GUY?!?”
Chief Oshkosh
@zhena gogolia: You know, there is that aspect of it. I work with two people from China (now US citizens) and another from Estonia (who was a young adult during the Soviet era). All three pointed out at lunch today that in most places in the world, a former president/premier/other-leaderly-leader would never even be investigated, much less indicted and that there was a certain likelihood that anyone suggesting such would end up in prison or dead. Overall, they find it inspiring that, even with so many people still in support of Trump (and many of them rich people), the US federal government and some state governments are pursuing his flabby ass.
Brachiator
@different-church-lady:
I use Twitter for a few things. But seeing that stupid X aggravates me no end.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Almost Retired:
I’m at the age where I get to freely show my ass in virtual hearings, too. As one former judge in my current shop says “all that fake civility masks the assholes, and it takes us longer to recognize the bad actors – any day you can really make them show it, its like a light bulb goes off in our heads”.
zhena gogolia
Oh, no, Jack:
“whom” cannot be the subject of “would spearhead.” “he announced” is parenthetical, so it should be “who he announced would spearhead” SHEESH!
different-church-lady
@satby:
Yeah, but you see I never clicked through any of them because the only ones I ever saw were the zinger-types that people linked to. The deeper ones never made the elephant-parade-of-retweets than used to (and still to a certain extent does) substitute for “content” over the past decade.
HumboldtBlue
@satby:
Did someone mention the Die-Hards (57th Regiment of Foot, Middlesex)
zhena gogolia
@Chief Oshkosh: Absolutely.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@zhena gogolia: I blame Meek Fucking Merrick!
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Garland wouldn’t have made that mistake.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Yeah, he must have written that sentence! His grammar is egregiously bad! //
different-church-lady
@karen marie:
I frequently need to remind myself that the reason I have no idea what everyone’s screaming about is because I never watch cable news.
Omnes Omnibus
@zhena gogolia:
It’s an intentional error to get the rubes to buy in. Like the errors in the phishing emails.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
And white people, the dominant group in the U.S. since forever.
different-church-lady
@PST:
But don’t you think it’s refreshing to dislike a pundit because of the presentation instead of the fact that they’re infuriatingly stupid and wrong?
UncleEbeneezer
@Miss Bianca: DOJ was already asking 1/6 defendants about VIP Organizers well before the Jan 6 Committee even happened. Lisa DiMonaco authorized seizure of Rudy’s phone ON HER FIRST DAY!! DOJ was already investigating and seizing phones of Eastman and Clark. They were investigating Meadows too. They were also litigating Executive Privilege issues that would only protect Trump. The notion that DOJ was somehow going after all the people closest to Trump, even before the Jan 6 Committee but wasn’t going to connect the dots to Trump is just silly. They started moving the hurdles that could protect Trump at every step and from the very beginning. I know because very smart people were very excited every time we became aware of the moves.
zhena gogolia
Having watched all the J6 hearings twice, I’m finding the indictment a little slow going because I know it all already. But I’ll persist. Maybe in small doses.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: Yeah, I guess so.
different-church-lady
@mrmoshpotato:
If that man’s thought process goes even one synapse beyond I DIDN’T DO ANYTHING WRONG I’d be deeply shocked.
different-church-lady
@Miss Bianca:
“Seize him!” is the new “Banksters!”
Omnes Omnibus
@UncleEbeneezer: But that was just cover for their inaction.
different-church-lady
@Ken:
If he thinks Jack’s gonna fall for that then he’s as stupid as I believe he is.
different-church-lady
@Almost Retired:
Me too. When are they actually gonna let me do it?
Alison Rose
@Brachiator: Everyone’s gonna keep calling it Twitter, too. It reminds me of when Comcast tried to get us to call them Xfinity. NO.
zhena gogolia
I like this passage from the commentary H. E. Wolf linked a while ago:
https://electoral-vote.com/#item-1
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Stunning.
It’ stunning.
Typical bumbling Mets trade Verlander to the Astros.
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia:
[sniff] I BELIEVED IN YOU, JACK! [cries]
NotMax
@different-church-lady
I do listen (albeit not daily), with my back to the TV and face to the computer desk or while doing something in another part of the domicile, to select programs or parts of programs, which is preferable to watching in my book.
The sheer volume of extraneous stuff splashed across the screen I find not only overly busy and distracting but an offense to the eyes.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
Actually, on this site, it’s usually the opposite. Typically within the first dozen or so posts of a thread about the DOJ investigations there will be a post saying how the event being discussed vindicates Garland and that all of those who thought Garland was too slow or timid were definitively proven wrong. And, typically, that post has errors and says things that people never actually said. It’s the nature of a blog. That said, this was certainly not the case for this thread.
As to Rubin, I think she is wrong on some of her statements in that piece, and as I said on another thread, she still lacks self-awareness in that she’s jumped on another bandwagon. She should be much more careful about examining the roots of her assumptions and she should be much more precise in her own writings
ETA: Here’s a perfect example from Immanentize:
I don’t recall people on this site asking for fast indictments and resolution. What I do recall is people like Betty and Congressman Schiff being frustrated that DOJ was not focusing on Trump as an actual motive force in the J6 insurrection, its planning and execution.
Elizabelle
@Ishiyama: Thank you for the head’s up on Walter Rodney. Found a free PDF online, and will be looking at this. Cheers.
Alison Rose
@different-church-lady: But it has to be said like this.
different-church-lady
You know, you’re all deeply behind the curve here. “He waited to long” is over. “Garland had nothing to do with it, it was all Jack Smith” is what the savvy set is wearing.
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
“It’s got a decent beat but you can’t dance to it.”
//
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: I agree with you. It is inspiring and a victory for the rule of law.
Jackie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: And now Pudd’n Boots wants to debate MVP re FL’s Black History curriculum. She said Nope.
https://abcnews.go.com/amp/Politics/harris-rejects-desantis-challenge-debate-slavery-florida-academic/story
different-church-lady
@NotMax: The entire world is being run by ADHD cases hopped up on 5-Hour Energy.
dww44
@Miss Bianca: First, I don’t know who the experienced lawyers/commenters on this blog are. Second, I’m not in the” Garland can do no right” camp. I think those who believe that “Garland can do no wrong” camp put me there.
I think I already mentioned in an earlier comment that Lawrence Tribe himself, in his typically very mild manner on last night’s LOD show, prefaced his remarks about yesterday’s indictment with the opinion that Garland had waited too long before he (Tribe) then gave a full-throated endorsement of his appointment of Jack Smith and yesterday’s indictment. I believe there are other similar opinions out there to his, which are also mine.
I am honestly surprised and dismayed by the over-the-top reactions here which seem to be aimed at ” putting me in my place.” The very opposite of a free, open, and respectful exchange of ideas and opinions.
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
I take it most Garland defenders on this site are reacting to things they see elsewhere on social media.
I’d be happy if the topic of Garland’s handling of the investigation ceased to be a topic of discussion everywhere.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@NotMax: I tend to listen more than I watch these days. One thing I’ve noticed is a lot of guests will say something like “as your listeners maybe remember– your listeners and viewers—“. Makes me wonder how MSNBC’s audience breaks down in terms of podcasts vs live-viewing, and how much that’s drilled into the on-air folk by producers and directors.
Baud
@dww44:
Larry Tribe is not a trial lawyer, much less a criminal lawyer.
People disagreeing with you aren’t silencing you.
zhena gogolia
@schrodingers_cat: I think people with no direct experience of authoritarian societies don’t really get it (looking at you, Judge Luttig).
ETA: And also in response to Luttig, I’d say the stain on US history happened when Trump was elected.
different-church-lady
@dww44:
What about the people in the “Garland doesn’t do anything at all” camp?
Sure Lurkalot
I’m in Betty Cracker’s fuckifino camp about Merrill Garland and certainly give heed to people more qualified than I about the difficulties in building such cases to indictment, but these are Garland’s own words over 8 months ago (emphasis mine):
Clearly the DOJ was working on Trump’s various criminal acts but it also seems clear that Trump’s candidacy announcement raised the stakes. Maybe all would have transpired at the same pace but again, fuckifino.
And among those people who have publicly expressed some disappointment with Merrick Garland is Adam Schiff, who most people here admire.
patrick II
@Baud:
Because Trump being a candidate for president is the reason Garland himself gave for appointing Smith.
different-church-lady
@Sure Lurkalot: People really just don’t seem to give any recognition to how tiny the needle Garland and DOJ is trying to thread here. Too aggressive and it comes off as political. Too lax and it comes off as lenience or cowardice.
Chief Oshkosh
@different-church-lady: Now THAT is funny. Thanks. :)
Baud
@patrick II:
The alternative history is what would have happened if Garland didn’t appoint Smith. There’s no way to know right now how or when the DOJ prosecution would have happened if there were no special prosecutor.
HumboldtBlue
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
LOLMETS!!!!!!
Ya love to see it!
Baud
IIRC, when Garland appointed Smith the critique was that Garland was avoiding his responsibility and was slowing down the investigation by putting a new person in charge.
Kay
@Chief Oshkosh:
And if anyone expressed doubt it was “oh, so you want to CLAP them in LEG IRONS without due process! You’re just like Trump!”
Excuse me?
This nonsense that one side of this was sober and thoughtful while the maniacs on the other side wanted them executed w/o trial isn’t how I remember it. I’m thrilled they pursued this – I think it will be rough for the country but it’s the only way to go forward. We’ve pushed enough uinder the rug and it’s really bumpy with unresolved issues and “looking forward, not back” but I’m also permitted to express concerns, negativity, questions about the DOJ or the leadership therein. That’s allowed. In no sense does it mean I reject process.
Chief Oshkosh
@different-church-lady:
[empahsis mine]
Making my point for me. Who here, on this blog, is saying that?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Just turned on the audio of the Nicolle Wallace show in time to hear “why didn’t this happen two and half years ago!”
ETA: just to clarify, it was not Wallace but a guest, I don’t know who
/click/
patrick II
@Baud:
Fair enough.
Sis
I immediately thought of the “powerful and obnoxious odor of mendacity” quote from Big Daddy in Cat on a Hot Tin Roof.
Jeffro
I am not sure my head can take too many more Indictment Days…
sab
@different-church-lady: I think Garland handled it well. He didn’t rush in. He looked deliberative, and then he handed it off to an actual tiger.The fact that everyone is giving all the credit to Smith shows how well Garland kept it from looking like a political hatchet job. Meanwhile the rest of his DOJ is very busy elsewhere doing really important things also.
different-church-lady
@Chief Oshkosh: You’re the guy who goes to a comedy and then tries to explain why the jokes don’t make any sense, aren’t you?
zhena gogolia
@sab: Yes.
zhena gogolia
@different-church-lady: I can’t really take your wife! You’d have to divorce her first!
NotMax
@Jim, Foolish Literalist
Also lifted directly from Dolt 45’s word salad yesterday.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud:
Given what we’re seeing in this thread, I think your assumption is wrong. And if it is true that most Garland defenders on this site are reacting to things they read elsewhere, it’d be good if they stipulated — it’d save time. ;)
You and me both. It’s in the rearview mirror.
different-church-lady
@sab: I don’t know how this is going to play out, but I think there’s a good chance that when it’s over we’ll be saying one of the smartest things Garland did was not take his cues from the very-online.
different-church-lady
@Chief Oshkosh:
Aren’t we all reacting to things we’ve read elsewhere?
Jackie
FYI: ARRAIGNMENT Party is at 4 pm Blog Time tomorrow. Have your party essentials ready!
different-church-lady
@zhena gogolia:
What about lease-to-own?
Baud
@Chief Oshkosh:
Judging by the comments I’ve seen over the last couple of days, a lot of people are reacting to MSNBC’s coverage yesterday. So media but not social media.
eversor
Rudy thinks a lot about other peoples cocks…
What is with these conservatives and constantly thinking about other peoples dicks?
Omnes Omnibus
@dww44: The conversations here are not taking place in a vacuum. A number of commenters have disclosed their backgrounds in federal criminal litigation. Also, some themes and conversation carryover through multiple threads. Being confronted with an argument that one has countered multiple times in the past can be frustrating. If a commenter has said “I am an experienced criminal litigator, and, in my experience, a certain process tends to take x months” and said it multiple times, they might get a little snippy if people keep saying “Why wasn’t this process completed in x/2 months?” Also, because there are a bunch of regulars here, sometimes arguments get reduced to shorthand comments.
TLDR: Don’t take things too personally.
dww44
@Baud: Not being a trial lawyer doesn’t render Tribe’s opinion any less valid, does it? I believe he trains trial lawyers at a highly respected, dare I say elite, institution, or did. I shouldn’t listen to him, but I should listen to the lawyers who comment here?
I don’t have issues with people disagreeing with me. I do with the manner in which they are often stated. In the many years I’ve been a reader here, I’ve witnessed the ganging up on commenters who have a differing opinion that may be expressed in ways that are off-putting to the majority. I guess that’s me re Garland’s role in the current matter. Time to take a break.
Kay
On the political side of things, I think a lot of base Democrats will be thrilled whether or not they were a fan of Garland. They just wanted accountability. Not the ultra online, super sophisticated base. The real base. They absolutely wanted Trump hel;d accountable and they were correct in expecting that to happen.
I think Biden’s numbers go up with D’s. He actually has some room to grow there.
zhena gogolia
Jackie
@eversor: It’s projection. It’s ALWAYS projection.
NotMax
@Jackie
“Grr. Coupon for torches and pitchforks at Lowe’s expired end of July.”
– MAGAland
;)
patrick II
@Betty Cracker
Some of your rants approach poetry. Just sayin’
Chief Oshkosh
@different-church-lady: Actually, I’m usually the guy on the stage making the jokes, so…
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@Omnes Omnibus:
Weirdly, even though I limit my time in Federal Court, I may have conducted the longest Federal criminal trial of anyone here. Five weeks from open to close, with at least one full week of jury selection.
That fucking sucked, and I never want to do that again.
Roger Moore
@jonas:
This! It’s classic excuses for why slavery is actually a good thing, and they’ve been used that way since slavery was an everyday feature of American life. I’m only a tiny bit surprised the proposed Florida curriculum doesn’t talk about the civilizing effect of Christianity on a bunch of pagans, which was also an excuse people used back then and continue to use today.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@dww44:
Tribe is a schmuck, a TV lawyer from an Ivy sinecure who runs his mouth about topics he knows little about.
Chief Oshkosh
@different-church-lady: No, I most often react to what I’m reading in the thread that I’m posting in. If I bring in something from beyond that thread, I generally mention that.
Possibly nobody else does this, but seems unlikely. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@zhena gogolia:
Turley is nothing if not predictable. Had he been born earlier in Germany, he’d have been in the dock at Nuremburg at the Judges Trial.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
but enough about Alan Dershowitz….
Baud
@dww44:
You can listen to anyone you want. I just don’t think Tribe’s opinion carries as much weight as those of people who actually try criminal cases.
I don’t know what to say about having a minority viewpoint. It happens to everyone, but you just have to decide what you’re comfortable with.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@eversor:
The classic Onion article always comes to mind on this.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
Those 17 syllables are pretty damning however.
p.a
Hmmm. Article posted at TPM at 3:05ET
“… Text messages obtained by Talking Points Memo — most which have not previously been made public until now — paint a picture of what was going on behind the scenes in the White House during the crucial period the special prosecutor has zeroed in on. In particular, they reveal that Republican National Committee Chairwoman Ronna McDaniel and former Arizona Republican Party Chairwoman Kelli Ward were among those who played key roles in elements of the alleged conspiracy from the moment Smith said it began.”
Jackie
According to the NYT, they think they’ve ID’d CC #6.
“. a December 2020 email from Trump adviser Boris Epshteyn to Rudy Giuliani is an indication Epshteyn is the co-conspirator whose identity was outstanding.”
I don’t have a subscription to the NYT, so this snip is courtesy of RawStory.
https://www.rawstory.com/donald-trump-2662680930/
zhena gogolia
@eversor: Not to mention the idea that using it makes it get bigger.
phdesmond
@Immanentize:
rhymin’ about crimin’
eversor
@Jackie:
It’s just… creepy.
Like the entire “bring those tits here” is odd as well. I’m a red blooded hetero male and I’ve never said something that… cheesy I guess is the word. And don’t get me wrong I’ve done my share of kinky sex and dirty talk but it’s all just odd.
It’s not kinky, it’s not horny, it’s not dirty, it’s not fun, it’s just creepy. Who does this? Then again while I have done a high heels race in Dupont Circle I’ve never dressed in drag and kissed Trump either.
I get Hunters “hookers and blow” jam that’s understandable. But ranting about jew dicks and telling people to bring their tits over to you is just sort of crazy.
Chief Oshkosh
@Kay: Careful, Kay, never disconcert the masses.
(500 cryptocoins to the first one who tells us what movie that’s from!)
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: Also, if you make the same tired argument that Trump himself, and a flood of sketchy MAGA bots are echoing all over Twitter then, yeah, people aren’t gonna have much patience for it.
rikyrah
President Biden is not giving up with helping those who have student loans.
Biden administration launches new SAVE student loan repayment plan. Here’s how to apply
PUBLISHED MON, JUL 31 202310:32 AM EDT
UPDATED MON, JUL 31 202312:00 PM EDT
Annie Nova
This is what happens when you have someone in government who wants to use government to HELP PEOPLE.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Cue NotMax or SD to actually write the haiku.
zhena gogolia
@Jackie: Oh, there has to be a russkii in the mix, doesn’t there?
Sister Golden Bear
@HumboldtBlue: Welcome to the party, pal! //
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@dww44:
I’m a lawyer with 35 years worth of experience, some civil, some criminal, some estate, some tax. I allegedly possess the potential skills to take on things in areas where I don’t generally play, but I don’t because I’m self-aware about my limitations. I would never dream of trying to speak authoritatively and extemporaneously on what a land use lawyer has to do to subdivide and develop a large plat of land for mixed use. I don’t dabble in administrative law, and I don’t do complex boot for basis 1031 swaps – as a result, I don’t go about offering my opinion on the methods that those who actually do those things engage in.
Ironically, the least accomplished lawyers I’m aware of are esconced in academia.
Alison Rose
@zhena gogolia: Probably not in Rudy’s case.
NotMax
@eversor
Just for respite, Unfortunate Man.
Uncle Cosmo
@different-church-lady: Hail**, Seizure!
** pronounced “hey, y’all”
schrodingers_cat
@zhena gogolia: Yep. When he won the Republican nomination and then the presidency. That was shameful. This is the corrective, shows that our institutions though battered are resilient.
narya
@Baud: I admit that I don’t get worked up about whom people like or listen to or hate or whatever. I think we all want different things from what we read, watch, listen to, and we have different tolerances for screwing up by the people writing or talking. I know I’ve made some comments today about preferring (or not preferring) this or that commentator, but, honestly, what difference does my opinion make? If you (generally, not you, Baud) disagree and prefer another method of acquiring information, so what? In other words, what Baud said.
rikyrah
LOL
Elie Mystal (@ElieNYC) posted at 11:55 PM on Tue, Aug 01, 2023:
Imagine running for Presidential primary against a guy who is under two federal indictments, being too chickenshit to bring it up for fear of what the indicted man will say about you, but trying to convince voters that you’re “strong” enough to lead the country.
(https://twitter.com/ElieNYC/status/1686601680387760128?t=QU5ykXr2uDraAkMKDLbkIA&s=03)
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@zhena gogolia: criminal prosecutions of fraud and many types of obstruction are based on disinformation.
Nixon’s initial obstruction in Watergate (among many other acts) was using disinformation to shut down the FBI investigation into the break-in. (He ordered the CIA to lie to the FBI, telling them an investigation would damage national security via a vis The Bay of Pig operation).
If I sell you a car and lie about its condition, that’s fraud based on disinformation.
rikyrah
Sami says Finish the Job & Protect Black Women (@NeverNotBlack) posted at 7:46 PM on Tue, Aug 01, 2023:
Thank God for @Lawrence tonight on this breakdown of the indictment. He rightfully pushed back on Chris Hayes’ “Merrick Garland is still bad” energy with facts and common sense. Hayes’ presence on these types of shows is just a bunch of bloviating.
(https://twitter.com/NeverNotBlack/status/1686538914918490112?t=lvU5zfZFXMd6MukojZFp9A&s=03)
Scout211
@Jackie: Well, Boris Epshteyn is certainly deserving of the title co-conspirator. But then again, there are so many.
raven
@HumboldtBlue: Cool. my work here is done!
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
Shall willingly await SD. Haiku (other than the town on Maui*) outside my wheelhouse.
*Telephone exchange for Haiku and its immediate environs is really, truly 575.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: That’s right, IIRC didn’t you work in EDNY?
Barbara
@dww44: Whatever kind of lawyer you are, or I am, I think it is mostly pointless and potentially destructive to engage in counterfactual speculation on what would or might have happened if so and so had done something else or something earlier. We have no idea when the special prosecutor felt secure enough that various witnesses would actually provide evidence sufficient to pass the minimum necessary threshold to bring an indictment. And even though I loathe Trump I can honestly say that it seems right that the AG or the special prosecutor might want to be particularly careful to have their ducks in a row before indicting the ex-president.
I understand that pointless counterfactual speculation is the heart and soul of certain types of news analysis, and that is why I mostly don’t watch it.
different-church-lady
@Chief Oshkosh: Well what I mean is the threads are usually about something someone read somewhere else.
Miss Bianca
@Chief Oshkosh: yet, strangely, here we now are, with Trump being all indicted on J6 charges and shit. Which, strangely, I never doubted for a moment was going to happen.
Honus
@dww44: not being a trial lawyer or litigator very much affects the validity of Tribe’s opinion. And Tribe doesn’t train trial lawyers, he teaches constitutional law. Civil procedure professors train trial lawyers.
Also, Merrick Garland was a student of Lawrence Tribe at Harvard. Res ipsa loquitor
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
WDKY, EDKY, SDIN, 6CA…
rikyrah
Randall Woodfin (@randallwoodfin) posted at 6:55 PM on Tue, Aug 01, 2023:
Honored to have Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, the first African-American woman on the Supreme Court, speak at the 60th anniversary of the 16th Street Baptist Church bombing next month.
A significant moment for Birmingham as we remember, heal, and forge justice together. https://t.co/2z6CT0aVQp
(https://twitter.com/randallwoodfin/status/1686526031266541568?t=10Qx5TENyFYX7NHKlikB3g&s=03)
Bill Arnold
@Baud:
Also, the probability that DJ. Trump would not declare his candidacy, and declare it early (to build a narrative that he should not be prosecuted because he’s a candidate), was approximately zero.
More broadly, we’re 15 months out from the 2024 general election. The election is in play, and cautionary predictive speculations aren’t very useful, except as fodder for organizing plans to defeat Republicans, and then only if some rigorous good-faith estimation of the tree of probabilities is applied.
rikyrah
@Kay:
No lie told
Jackie
@rikyrah: Exactly! Democratic candidates should point this out loud and often!
Miss Bianca
@Baud: what you said.
Barbara
@Honus: The example not to follow is the prosecutor in Baltimore who quickly indicted six police officers in connection with the death of Freddie Gray and lost initial jury verdicts and ended up having to dismiss charges against everyone. No doubt someone was guilty of something but when you go to court you have to show that this person was guilty of that crime, element by element.
rikyrah
@p.a:
Oh Ronna….LOL
If TPM has those text messages…
SO.DOES.JACK.SMITH.
Jackie
@Scout211: I’m still waiting for more info about the congress persons alluded to in the indictment…
Miss Bianca
@Sure Lurkalot: I like Adam Schiff, and I respect his opinions, but I don’t consider him infallible. He’s got points to score off his opinionatin’ just like any other politician – or any person period, come to that.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@rikyrah:
He’s a good person.
reminds me of this quote:
zhena gogolia
@Miss Bianca: Exactly.
UncleEbeneezer
@Barbara:
“And even though I loathe Trump I can honestly say that it seems right that the AG or the special prosecutor might want to be particularly careful to have their ducks in a row before indicting the ex-president.”
This! Cutting some corners from the normal process because of the looming 2024 Election could very well open up any conviction to being overruled on appeal. DOJ had/s to proceed with caution and treat Trump as they would any other defendant, without passion or prejudice, as the saying goes.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Miss Bianca: When I saw Schiff joining in on the Garland
bashingcriticism, I thought I would like to ask him if he ever had a case where he was sure all the evidence was in his favor and it was pretty clear the defendant was guilty, yet the jury still somehow voted for acquittal.I mean, besides the first impeachment
UncleEbeneezer
@Miss Bianca: Schiff is also partly responsible for delay in that his own Committee withheld documents from DOJ for months!! They probably had good reason to do so, but you’d think he’d grant DOJ the same benefit of the doubt…
raven
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Fuck LBJ
Baud
@raven:
I was going to have your back, but I decided to wait in case your showed up.
Roger Moore
@Kay:
Part of the problem, of course, is that each side remembers the most outrageous things said by anyone on the other side. For example, a commenter here was recently complaining that any other country would have thrown Trump in prison on 21 Jan 2021. I don’t think that’s the consensus view among people who think DOJ should have been faster, but it is an actual thing someone said here.
sab
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: I have suspected that for a while.
But my law career was very short. Hated it and not good at it. But I did pass the bar in MI on my first attempt, unlike Hillary (she was busy and flunked DC bar. I had time to study. MI bar passed if you did well on multistate. Ultimate good test taker low bar. Which I passed. Hillary flunked hers and I passsed mine? Shows the flaws in the system.
CaseyL
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I like Schiff very much, but this was actually the first thing I thought of when he was complaining even now about Garland:
Dude. You had a shot and it didn’t work.
Yes, I know the GOP was never going to vote to impeach… and you better believe Garland and Smith are also aware of that, and know they’ve got to present a case so ironclad, with so much evidence in support, that it would outlast the heat death of the universe.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Baud: I love baiting him. Its like saying Beetlejuice three times.
sab
@Roger Moore: Some of our guys loved Cole when he was a RWNJ. This shift to the rule of law vs our side wins has been an adjustment.
On the other hand I like slow creeping criminal law. Somewhere in my life I might have fucked up moraly or legaly (one” l” looks wrong) and still have gotten ahead without being horrible.
Hoodie
@dww44: Tribe is an appellate lawyer and law school professor. He started his career as an appellate law clerk and then became a law professor. He argues big issues at the appellate level, which doesn’t have a lot to do with the nuts and bolts of putting together a criminal investigation and trial. He has no direct experience in conducting criminal investigations, which is done by a combination of lawyers and cops and involves a lot of logistical issues that guys like Tribe don’t deal with. Law students learn to be trial lawyers when they go out into the real world, starting out as grunts and working their way up. They’re taught by other trial lawyers or learn it themselves the hard way. It’s like the difference between being an architect and a carpenter.
Omnes Omnibus
As I was out riding my bike, I had a thought that may explain some of the differences of opinion here. Politically, it may well have been optimal to have indicted Trump far soon than this. Anyone looking at the process primarily from the POV of the next election could easily find the process glacially slow. OTOH, people looking at it primarily from a legal standpoint would be less concerned about the timing and more concerned that Garland/Smith had all their ducks in a row. A failed prosecution would be devastating, and one that failed because it was rushed would be even worse. At this point though, indictments have happened, and we all have to live with the timing and degree of preparation that went into them.
sab
@sab: But MI had a less than 50% pass rate. Proving I excelled at tests and failed at common sense. Aways my whole long life.
Also too spelling, or at least internet typing.
zhena gogolia
Bolded sentence nominated for rotating tag.
Fleeting Expletive
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:A gerbil on speed.
The Thin Black Duke
I’m glad Trump has been indicted. The odds are good he won’t be able to slither away from his latest self-inflicted disaster. Ranting about whether Garland waited too long is a waste of oxygen.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus: No, it’s just understandable that people are craving the sight of Trump behind bars, and they’re not consulting with their intellect before the running of the mouth.
different-church-lady
Technical question: is Happy Hour still at 5 o’clock if you didn’t get out of bed until one in the afternoon?
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: Yes.
Odie Hugh Manatee
TFG’s new cognitive test:
Prosecutor, Judge, Courtroom, Trial, Prison
This ain’t McDonald’s but I’m sure lovin’ it! After four years of that asshole and his supporting assholes, I’m savoring every single bit of this.
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
Oh. Then how come I’m not happy?
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@different-church-lady: Look at it another way, nothing wrong with drinking your lunch.
Scout211
I don’t know why, but this made me laugh. It’s on NBC.com’s live updates
Ominous aspersions?! LOLOLOLOLOL
ETA: Also, too, I think we should hold him to that promise that he will not accept a plea deal. Yeah, sure, I believe him 100% that he will not accept a plea deal. ;-)
Omnes Omnibus
@different-church-lady: It is possible that you are drinking too much, not enough, the wrong thing, or some combination of the above. Have you considered hard drugs?
ETA: N.B. I am not a medical professional, a mental health counselor, a bartender, or a drug dealer.
Elizabelle
@Omnes Omnibus: You do good thinking on your bike.
Roger Moore
@Omnes Omnibus:
I think a big part of the problem is people are talking past each other. People who wanted Trump indicted and convicted lickety split were thinking about what would be politically beneficial. They get upset with people who talk about how long the process is going to take because they think those people lack the necessary degree of urgency. People who have been OK with the timescale we’ve gotten have been focused on the nuts and bolts of the prosecution. They get upset with people who want things to happen faster because they think those people are putting their political desire for a fast prosecution ahead of the need to make the case airtight.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Scout211: Who was it that was upset about aspersions on their asparagus? Am I making that up?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Scout211: are we still doing “Band name!” ?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Dorothy A. Winsor: that was the honorable Louis Goehmert, former congressman and a fairly high ranking judge in Texas before that
On my phone and too sausage fingered to check
different-church-lady
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yes.
On my income?
Omnes Omnibus
@Roger Moore: Exactly. And then there are a few trolls who are just trying to muddy the waters (not in this particular thread which IMO involved people being wrong in good faith).
different-church-lady
@Roger Moore:
But mostly it’s just that people like shooting their mouths off.
Leto
I was running errands about 90 mins ago and just happened to turn to NPR, mainly because I haven’t listened to them in a long while. Wondered what they saying regarding this, and they had one of Trumpov’s dingdong lawyers on just… stinking the joint up. “Biden administration prosection” this, “free speech” that… I lasted 30 secs and just turned it. I don’t need to hear that shit, nobody needs to hear that shit. Why are you polluting the airwaves with that bs? There’s no value in hearing what they have to say, other than deranged Broderism.
Omnes Omnibus
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Ominous Aspersions is an album name. The one where the band goes back to basics and records in a mountain cabin to get back that feeling they had when they were starting out before all the money and success changed everything.
Chief Oshkosh
@different-church-lady: Agreed, but that’s not what was being discussed.
Leto
@Omnes Omnibus: honestly I have trepidations about both: I’m afraid of the glacial pace due to his long standing history of delaying everything for years, combined with the fact that if he does win that he’ll simply end it all the day of Inauguration. Also I’m afraid that even if Smith has all his ducks in a row, i’s dotted, t’s crossed, that it still won’t be enough. I keep thinking about Bundy and the Muehuller Refuge standoff, and how all those fucks walked free.
Honestly there’s not much I can do other than vote, encourage as many as I can to vote, limit how much of this I’m consuming (other than here, always happy to be here), and just trust that he’s as good at his job as his resume shows.
Chief Oshkosh
@Miss Bianca: I’m slow today, I guess. I don’t understand what you’re saying in the context of the post you cited.
Kay
If you’re interested in crim justice reform this is an amazing success story:
Roger Moore
@different-church-lady:
I think there’s a genuine difference of opinion. Unfortunately, like many issues people are eager to attribute differences of opinion to malice rather than honest disagreement.
NotMax
@different-church-lady
Happy hour begins at the stroke of 5.
Unless one keeps to Sandringham time.
;)
mrmoshpotato
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Mmmmm casting asparagus.
Most excellent when grilled btw.
NotMax
@Dorothy A. Winsor
If spotty memory serves, Louis Gohmert.
NotMax
@mrmoshpotato
Best served on a freshly faxed credenza?
:)
sab
@Kay: Good, but yikes! for the older convicts. ” Sorry we ruined your only life because we were wrong.”
Baud
@Kay:
Blue state.
mrmoshpotato
@NotMax: Do you know of another way?
sab
My Dad is going to be 99 this month.
His much younger wife died 10 years ago. I cannot tell you how weird this feels. But Dad has dementia, and Mom adored him because he was so much smarter than her. She couldn’t have handled his dementia.
ETA: She was a sweet, gentle lady, but she really could not have handled his dementia. It isn’t severe, but he isn’t who he was
ETA The younger wife was my mom.
RSA
Good observation. It’s estimated that somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 million people lived under slavery in America between 1619 and 1865 (i.e. by a cumulative count). If 4 million were freed in 1865, that leaves 6 million who died enslaved.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7716878/
Kathleen
@Immanentize: “If Garland hadn’t been sitting on his hands on January 6th Trump would be in prison by now.”
Dan B
@different-church-lady: I read somewhere that the person whose bailiwick was investigating Trump for J6, etc. was deferential to people in power. This is fr9m people who’d worked with him. Garland was stuck with this character. It was the bureaucracy that threw a wrench in the works. The J6 committee allowed the dam to break at DOJ.
Baud
@Dan B:
I can see that. Garland couldn’t replace a career prosecutor without the investigation looking political, and maybe this guy was risk averse.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Scout211: Eastman hired the law office of Dewey, Cheatam, and Howe
Scout211
I was wondering who his “legal team” was. That checks out.
sab
@Brachiator: Skilled people living happily in Africa were kidnapped and enslaved because South Carolina needed skilled rice farmers. As Game of Thrones would say : this is known. If it isn’t known, it damn well should be.
Old School
@Chief Oshkosh:
The Great Waldo Pepper
MomSense
@Immanentize:
I have a question for you. It seems like at the heart of the Garland do something shoulda done something sooner crowd is the belief that a conviction on an insurrection (conspiracy, inciting, etc) would have disqualified trump from re-election.
It’s my understanding that even though an insurrection would be disqualifying, there is no mechanism for making that happen and we would have to litigate that matter anyway.
I think this is another case of wanting the DOJ to solve what is a problem for voters. Our electorate is dysfunctional and it would be soooo much easier if Garland could handle this for us.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Sherwin, trump’s US Atty for DC? D’Antuono, director of the DC field office? they’re both featured in that Carol Leonnig article that poured gasoline on this question
Dan B
@sab: True that Garland has done a good job of keeping the investigation from looking political but the RWNJ’s still call it political revenge. It would be interesting to know how many Americans feel the same. 27%?
Baud
@Dan B:
Maybe I’ve missed it, but I don’t think that mainstream media is beating the political prosecution drum.
Gwangung
I am absolutely convinced that under the best of circumstances, the absolute minimum for a case would have been 18-24 months. And with the internal politics (both in the partisan and in the bureaucracy sense), it’s not overly long for indictments to have taken this long.
CaseyL
@Roger Moore:
I have really lost my temper a few times at the pace, and (metaphorically) yelled and screamed about it. Mostly, though I’ve tried to be patient and supportive of DoJ in building this case.
But I wasn’t angry because I was hungry for a political benefit. My god, no.
I was angry because every day that excrescence walks free, is able to hold rallies, make speeches, appear on TV, is another day of incalculable damage to the country.
Omnes Omnibus
And that isn’t political? Okay.
Miss Bianca
@Chief Oshkosh:
Go back and read the last paragraph of your post. If it’s still unclear after that, well…I don’t know what to tell you.
Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg
Query on Epshteyn, born 1982
I knew a bunch of Russian immigrants in the early 90s. They were poor as churchmice, and struggled (rightfully) with language and culture, even when clearly educated and sharp.
How does Epshteyn immigrate in 1993 as an 11 year old and then matriculate straight into Swarthmore from high school in 2000, and then do Georgetown for a JD followed by tassel-loafered firm recruitment without tremendous resources? And then straight into the GOP pipeline in 2007 into Palin’s orbit?
Glidwrith
@dww44: And now we have moved to the portion of our program of looking at definitions in the dictionary to keep on arguing against the professionals that know what they’re talking about.
‘Bye.
Dan B
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: D’Antuono was the supposed laggard, I believe. Good to here it’s been disproved. The reports about early work are great. My question is how many Trump appointees at DOJ had to be worked around? That would slow things down.
UncleEbeneezer
Dan B
@Baud: True. Only the RWNJ’s are hollering. How did corporate media get over the both-sides!!! both-bad. I’d hazard to say that Jack Smith’s no nonsense approach is a good part of it.
Geminid
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg: Maybe Epshteyn knows or is related to someone like Andrew Intrater. Intrater runs an investment firm that was fundedup by his cousin, Russian oligarch Viktor Vekselberg. Intrater has been a big contributor to Republicans, most notoriously to George Santos.
I saw a lot of speculation about the identity of Individual #6 last night. Some people were saying that it must be Epshteyn, others were saying it’s gotta be a Mr. Roman. Evidently, they both fit the description.
So why aren’t they #6 and #7? I guess because one has flipped. One of the interesting aspects of the indictment are all the people not indicted, like Mark Meadows. Some may show up in additional indictments, some may show up at trial as prosecution witnesses.
Jackie
Lovely. Now Pudd’n Boots is advocating slitting throats. This is the Party of Law and Order and Family Values.
https://floridapolitics.com/archives/625600-ron-desantis-slit-throats/
UncleEbeneezer
@Geminid: Roman or Epshteyn would be great because DOJ already has BOTH of their phones!
kalakal
@zhena gogolia: I couldn’t agree with you more. That guy is 180 degrees out.
what would
is if TFG and his fellow conspirators were to have been allowed to carry on politics as normal with no charges brought it would have been the end of the United States. Any nation that allows the leaders of an attempted insurrection to walk away scot free is doomed. The seat of government was occupied by rioters trying to overturn an election and install a dictatorship. Allowing that to go unpunished is what would “Scar and stain the United States”.
bbleh
“Pervasive and destabilizing lies” has really nice meter. Like, in the future, when someone produces “Trump, The Musical,” which inevitably will be really campy and over-the-top, “Pervasive And Destabilizing Lies” will be one of the important numbers.
Subsole
@Ken:
You aren’t alone there.
I am just waiting for that petty, vindictive dumbshit to start dumping ALL of it. Everything. About all of them.
Like, you ever seen the movie Death of Stalin? There’s a scene in there where Beria is shrieking at the rest of the Committee, raging at them and telling them he has files on all of them. He has files on. All. Of. Them. And you can just see them all slowly deciding, right there, in real time, that he has to die.
Yeah, it’s like that.
The beauty part is, these clods don’t have the smarts, or the sand, to pull a Beria on Trump.
bbleh
@schrodingers_cat: so far. They require continual assistance though; we can’t step back and depend on them. They are us.
Scout211
@Geminid: Salon has a nice roundup of speculation. The conclusion most have is the same conclusion the the NYT has. It’s Epshteyn. Roman was likely the one named as an “agent” in the indictment and Epshteyn by then was working as a political consultant for Trump, not as one of his attorneys
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@UncleEbeneezer: Ari Melber just showed an interview from Jan 2022 where Boris openly says “I was part of the process to make sure there were alternative electors”.
It most likely him.
Gvg
I understand and agree with the justice is a process and this has to be done right, however realistically politics are still happening and it IS bad that this trial and the others followed by hopefully convictions has and will take so long. I don’t see a solution either. I think that the political problems caused by Trump and his radical Republican enablers to spread the conspiracy lie that what he and they did was right not wrong for years longer before it got to a court of law, is going to be a political problem for America for decades from now. However, it was going to be that way, even if the trial was the next day with all the same evidence, which was impossible anyway. A significant part of our population has been infected with conspiracy thinking and anti logic for some time now. A part of our side too, though not currently causing this political problem but contributing to a lack of logic helps marinate this stupidity.
Whenever we have more problems, and we will, people are going to say if only we had….more and more. But I don’t see how we really could have without also screwing up the legal process, and that was the only part of it we had a hope of succeeding at.
The re educating of our cult dimwits is a long term project which will take more than one process to work. My wish is get basic education back under control. I’d like to weed out too much deference to homeschooling and charter schools. Get religious schools out of public funding too. Teach how to evaluate sources starting early. Be ready for the fight back. I don’t know how to do those things, but I know they must be done.
bbleh
@rikyrah: @zhena gogolia: @kalakal: uhh, given what I’ve read of what he’s said in the past, I don’t think he meant that the “spectacle” that would “forever scar” etc. is the TRIAL. I think he meant the whole sordid Jan. 6 thing — the very thing the trial is intended to bring under the law. He is very definitely NOT a fan of TFG, nor of MAGAtry, nor any of the other authoritarian BS that’s taken root among Republicans.
schrodingers_cat
@bbleh: I agree.
kalakal
@Jackie:
FFS! What is with these pseudo macho chickenhawks. He military service was as a JAG yet he talks as if he was some twisted prepubescent’s idea of Royal Marine Commando. He struts around in a military outfit that makes him look a gas station attendant uttering pseudo military piffle. Slit throats? The creep isn’t even capable of using cutlery for eating
Subsole
@eversor:
They are deeply, DEEPLY insecure about their own. So they project their fear onto others. Standard proc for them, honestly.
That and some of them probably aren’t as straight as they think they are. Not even gay, or closeted, or self-hating, or anything that complex. Just ragingly insecure and never trained or equipped to healthily express appreciation for the male body.
Or the female one, for that matter. “Claim my tits,”??? Who the fuck talks like that??
Subsole
@Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:
Why DO they keep doing that, indeed??
Geminid
@Subsole: Drunks?
Subsole
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
Beetlejuice?
Subsole
@Geminid:
I’unno man. I have been falling-down-drunk-in-lust with an absolute goddess of a woman and NEVER have I talked like that.
He’s a grown man acting like a toddler. It’s creepy. Like a 40 year old woman pretending to be a junior-high cheerleader creepy. Not trying to kink shame or whatever, but if someone wanted me to pretend I was an underage boy, I would be asking some questions. Because that’s more red flags than a fuckin’ May Day Parade in Moscow, dude.
Mike in NC
I’ve thought for years that Boris Epshteyn reported directly to the Kremlin about what their puppet Trump was doing.
Geminid
@Subsole: Yeah, there’s definitely something wrong with Guliani besides being drunk. Although it sounds like he’s been hitting the sauce for a long time, and that can really mess up someone’s mind.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Subsole:
rikyrah
Kidnapping Survival Skills for Black Children 🤔
https://www.tiktok.com/t/ZT8LFJUSa/
Subsole
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
You said it three times.
“It’s showtime.”
Subsole
@Geminid:
I wish these putzes would just spring for therapy, instead of trying to turn America into Russia.
Immanentize
@Kathleen: “If Napoleon had a B-52 Stratofortress at Waterloo, all of us in the US would be speaking French.”
mrmoshpotato
@Immanentize:
And the B-52’s would have written Shack d’amour!
Immanentize
@mrmoshpotato: Serge Gainsbourg would have been bigger than Elvis! “Zee Burgla of Bamf-f” would have been idolized, not mocked!
kalakal
@Immanentize:
Elvis? Pah! Johnny Hallyday would be the biggest name ever in popular music
Immanentize
@kalakal: i happen to 💖 Johnny Hallyday.
I play this version of Hey Joe for my criminal law class — re: domestic violence (both physical and aesthetics?)
ETA everyone should have a horn section like Johnny H.
Mr. Bemused Senior
@kalakal:
And Grytpype-Thynne would have been Moriarty’s sidekick. Alas for the lost timeline.
NotMax
@kalakal
Thing I learned recently.
During the early 1930s a theater in London presented a play about Napoleon written by Benito Mussolini. Its run was not deemed a success and soon closed.
Immanentize
@mrmoshpotato:
Immanentize
@NotMax: Ha! If only Benito had succeeded in the theatre!
NotMax
@Immanentize
“Benny, baby, I know show business inside and out. My advice? Don’t quit your day job.”
:)
Immanentize
@NotMax: “Look, You got something, I admit it, but the crowd is as likely to throw tomatoes at your corpse as applaud.”
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Did you see they’re making a sequel. Winona Ryder and Michael Keaton are in it. I don’t know about Geena Davis, Alec Baldwin or Catherine O’Hara.
Or Sylvia Sidney. I doubt it, but it would be very meta.
zhena gogolia
@bbleh: I was going by what was in the text of the quotation in the post here.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Subsole: 😂
Citizen Alan
@David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: Reminds me of last easter when I was at my sister’s house. Somehow I was drawn into a political discussion against my will with my two nephews. And in response to a perfectly innocuous comment by me, my sister asked me in an utterly hateful tone of voice to give one reason why I would support joe biden. I took a second to collect myself and said very calmly “Because on every issue that is important to me, joe biden agrees with me and the republicans are opposed to me.”
And that was enough to center literally running out of the room in squalling hysterics, saying that she needed to take a nerve pill.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: filming it in Vermont. maybe Bernie will make a cameo. After all, he has the same hair line and hair style as Beetlejuice.
kalakal
@Immanentize: He was truly hilarious in Crime Spree. The scene where he and Renaud are squabbling over which radio station to listen to is one of the best in-jokes ever.
way2blue
Yikes. Three zillion comments. FWIW. I wanted to mention that ‘The Bulwark’ podcast has an audio version of the indictment. It’s about an hour & half long. Spoken by an AI guy, but still very easy to follow. I listened to it between running errands and walking my Wednesday six miles. Astonishing detail. With a drumbeat of Trump knowingly repeating fraudulent dribble after being told repeatedly it was dribble. Been holding my breath for a Jack Smith to pull us back from the brink.
Kathleen
@Immanentize: And Hitler could have painted the backdrops.