The Pelosi Factor Trump’s longtime antagonist played an essential role in his historic indictment.https://t.co/pXc2zCIkDi
— FlashDancer (@MemyselfnFlash) August 7, 2023
Ankush Khardori, for NYMag — “Trump’s longtime antagonist played an essential role in his historic indictment”:
… [Y]ou cannot tell the story of Trump’s historic indictment without Nancy Pelosi. It was the then-Speaker of the House who insisted that there be a congressional inquiry following January 6. And it was the work of the select committee she fashioned that finally appears to have spurred a reluctant Justice Department to action, setting in motion a more intense phase of criminal scrutiny focused on Trump’s effort to overturn the 2020 presidential election. The resulting indictment closely tracks the select committee’s work and findings, presenting a factual narrative that traces — almost identically — the evidence presented by the committee of a sophisticated, multipronged effort by Trump to remain in power that culminated in the mayhem at the U.S. Capitol.
“I knew on January 6 that he had committed a crime,” Pelosi told me late Friday afternoon, squeezing me in for a roughly 30-minute interview at the tail end of a remarkable week in Washington…
During the Trump administration, Pelosi emerged as one of Trump’s most persistent and effective political antagonists, and the personal rancor between the two was often on public display. She went toe to toe with him in the Oval Office. She authorized the third-ever impeachment of an American president after Trump’s effort to shake down Ukraine’s president to get dirt on Joe Biden. She famously tore up Trump’s 2020 State of the Union speech while standing behind him. As Trump’s supporters began to approach the Capitol on January 6, Pelosi said that if Trump joined them, “I’m going to punch him out. I’ve been waiting for this. For trespassing on the Capitol grounds, I’m going to punch him out. And I’m going to go to jail, and I’m going to be happy.”
The rioters proceeded to ransack her office, and instead of punching Trump, who was prevented from going to the Capitol by the Secret Service, Pelosi impeached him again. To this day, Pelosi seems to get under Trump’s skin like no one else. Early Sunday morning, Trump called her “a sick & demented psycho who will someday live in HELL!”
Long before January 6 itself, Pelosi had been preparing for Trump to try to disrupt the transfer of power. “During the election, I thought, ‘He’s going to try to pull a stunt and we have to try to have as many states in the Democratic column as possible,’” she told me, contemplating the possibility that Biden’s victory might not be certified and that the House would have to move to an obscure procedure in which each state’s congressional delegation would cast a single vote to determine the next president…
======
Now that Trump has been indicted over his effort to steal the election, we are in the midst of a singular moment in American history — one that will have dramatic long-term implications for our country and one that will likely be covered in history books for generations to come. The difference, of course, is that as we live through this period, we have no idea how it will end — with Trump in prison or with Trump in the White House again.
I asked Pelosi how she thought this would all end, and she struck a tentative but cautiously optimistic tone. “As we always say, it all depends on what happens at the end of the day, but you have to determine what the end of the day is. Yesterday was the end of a day. The former president of the United States was arraigned, and that was a triumph for the truth.”
“The indictments against the president are exquisite,” Pelosi added, referring to both the latest set of charges and the earlier federal indictment over Trump’s hoarding of classified documents at Mar-a-Lago and his subsequent efforts to obstruct investigators. “They’re beautiful and intricate, and they probably have a better chance of conviction than anything that I would come up with.”
As for the prospect of a second Trump term, Pelosi immediately recoiled when I brought it up. “Don’t even think of that,” she told me. “Don’t think of the world being on fire. It cannot happen, or we will not be the United States of America.”
“If he were to be president,” she continued, “it would be a criminal enterprise in the White House.”
There was a time in American life, not that long ago, when that would have been clear hyperbole. These are categorically different times.
Much more at the link!
If you’re on social media, remember: Sharing is caring!
“I wasn’t in the courtroom of course, but when I saw him coming out of his car, I saw a scared puppy."
~ Nancy PelosiLegend. pic.twitter.com/5BuOH60Q7y
— Jane of the North (@JaneotN) August 7, 2023
OzarkHillbilly
trump never saw a fight he couldn’t pay somebody else to fight.
Suzanne
Cry more, you fascist piece of shit.
mrmoshpotato
Ouch! Legend indeed!
japa21
Pelosi is, in fact, a legend in her own time. But this
is stated as fact without evidence.
Years from now, we might learn the real history of this period, but we don’t know it yet.
dmsilev
@Suzanne: Apparently all the interesting people will be in Hell. I guess it’s really the place to be.
Suzanne
@dmsilev: That’s what Mark Twain said. If Nancy Pelosi is there, I guess I’ll have good company.
dmsilev
@Suzanne: When Sartre wrote ‘Hell is other people’, I don’t think that’s quite what he meant…
Ruckus
Nancy is a very good human.
She has devoted her life to making life better, and done a damn good job.
THANK YOU NANCY.
Sorry that you had to deal with one of the worst of the worst humans.
gwangung
@japa21: I wouldn’t be surprised that the select committee gave enough ammunition for one faction to bulldoze a pro-MAGA faction within the Justice Department.
But that’s more nuance than most folks bring to the table.
UncleEbeneezer
I can’t believe it. I got picked for a jury, AGAIN!! I’m all for doing my civic duty, but this is a terrible week for me and I was really hoping not to get picked this time. :(
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: Without the January 6th committee Garland would still be doing nothing. As it is, despite Smith’s excellent strategy and timing, the DOJ was far too slow in moving. If, and it is still a big if, Trump is convicted, it will be despite Garland not because of him. The only way to stop a coup that has failed from turning into an ongoing rebellion, revolt, and insurgency is to punish the leaders of it quickly, publicly, transparently, and clearly. We’ve not done any of that. And as a result the cold civil war we’ve been in will continue to both heat up and to generate spikes in violence. Wischcasting will not help. Posting hopium from accounts with handles mimicking the special consul will not help. And, as we’ve learned by living through it, our leaders will not help unless they are shamed and forced into doing so.
Westyny
Queen.
Scout211
I posted that article this morning. It’s a great article, giving credit to Speaker Emerita Pelosi for essentially saving our democracy. Read the whole thing if you have time. She serves all the credit. It’s well worth a few minutes of your time.
japa21
@Adam L Silverman: Adam, I have a ton of respect for you, but your first statement is an overstatement. Where is your proof? Also, do you have your new mattress yet?
RaflW
I had periods years ago when I was not much of a Pelosi fan. But she really did the work, she has made a significant difference in the (TBD) durability of this frayed democracy, and I also give her huge props for how she has stepped back into a leader emerita role that – at least to this casual observer – seems well calibrated and supportive of the future for the Democratic Party.
The contrast with McConnell is striking. He’s hanging on to his wizened, shaky job to his own bitter end, it seems. While working day and night to trash the Senate and the US gov’t.
Jess
I cannot believe for a second that tfg will reclaim the Oval Office, but I’m with Nancy on what it would mean. It wouldn’t just be the end of our society; it would be the end of any chance we have to bring climate change under control. We absolutely cannot let that happen. At this point I barely care about our country any more; the stakes are so much higher.
Betty Cracker
Pelosi is an incredibly wise, ferociously competent and amazingly accomplished woman. No wonder Trump loses his shit every time she calls him out — she’s a living rebuke to his stupidity, incompetence and failures.
Jeffro
@Ruckus:
Props indeed!
And this comment reminds me of something a fellow poster said a day or two ago: we have all had to deal with this insanity for going on 8 years now. That’s a LONG time, having that kind of stress in the background (at best!). For me, it feels like it’s been having car alarm going off in the neighborhood that half the neighborhood is ok with and no one seems able to deal with. Until now (fingers crossed!).
So…I dunno but keep taking good care of yourselves, peeps.
Suzanne
ZOMG, it is gloriously cool outside. Going to be in the 60s every night this week. Window open sleeping, yay! Now that my summer vacation is done, I am ready for autumn. Pumpkin spice ahoy.
RaflW
I’m not going too far into one thread emerging here, but I believe that any major prosecution of Trump before Nov 8, 2022 would have shifted the math in Congress (both chambers) in ways bad for Democrats and democracy.
I can’t prove that theory, but it is my personal belief. Now, since that date, has DoJ moved ‘fast enough’? IDK. I’m not a DoJ insider, and I get exhausted trying to second guess the work of both a law enforcement and political entity as complex as that.
Jackie
@mrmoshpotato: Nominated
UncleEbeneezer
@japa21: Right. DOJ had already authorized seizure of Co-Conspirator #1’s phones, opened an investigation into Co-Conspirator #3 and had Thomas Windom assigned to investigate the Fake Electors scheme. All well before the Jan 6th Committee hearings.
Jeffro
THIS
I’m not going to belabor it, but in my view the past 2 1/2 years have felt like they’ve taken 10x longer than the 5 years leading up to the 2020 election.
We HAVE to see this through and then make an example of this utterly deranged clown, and forever shun his followers and enablers. And then do what we can to make it harder, if not impossible, for it to happen again.
NotMax
@Adam L Silverman
Justice and blitzkreig do not mix. Nor should they.
Dan B
@Jess: I hear you on Climate Change. It is one of many threats but ice been worried for at least twenty years and now it seems we may be entering an era with huge challenges to agriculture. Big migration with a tyrant in the White House and it’s time for mass death.
Betty Cracker
Connie Schultz (Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist who’s married to Senator Sherrod Brown) was on Maddow’s program tonight and sounded optimistic about the special election in Ohio tomorrow.
persistentillusion
@dmsilev: All my firends will be there. Come party!
Jackie
Pence is in! Maybe his presence at the debate will goad TIFG to participate – while he’s still furious at Pence’s disloyalty.🤭😂
“Former Vice President Mike Pence has met the requirements to qualify for the first Republican presidential nomination debate, Fox News reports.”
Adam L Silverman
@japa21: Never an issue challenging an assertion. And my reply isn’t directed at you, but you posted the quote with the relevant reporting. That without the committee, Garland was just dawdling. Former Congressman Denver Riggleman, who was a special advisor to the committee has stated that the committee shamed Garland into acting and that was part of its job: to get him to do something.
As for the mattress, I’m waiting for an update. It was supposed to be out of production Friday, but as of today they’re not sure where it’s is at. Supposedly they’re going to update me tomorrow.
Jackie
@Betty Cracker: I watched her. I’m very optimistic, too! A winning “NO” vote tomorrow sets a very positive setup for defeating the abortion vote in Nov.
dmsilev
@Jackie: If his lawyers have any sense at all and any influence over his behavior, they’ll tell him to stay far away from the debate. Which means that he’ll be there.
Ruckus
@UncleEbeneezer:
I can’t even remember the number of times I’ve been on jury duty. Which brings up – I’m on it again. And I realized that I have a VA appointment in the middle of my wait and see week. Somethings got to give. I’d bet it’s not jury duty.
Anotherlurker
I’m glad Nancy Pelosi was not term limited out of office.
dww44
@Adam L Silverman: Thank you.
Steeplejack
@Betty Cracker:
That was a good segment.
Nelle
@Ruckus: ive only been called for jury duty once. I broke my foot the week before and since it was for federal court forty miles away, the doc didn’t want me driving. Excused.
My husband got excused when he was asked if he knew any of the names on a list. He identified one as being in his will as the guardian of our children should we both die.
Brachiator
@Adam L Silverman:
Right now, the Republicans will not hold Trump accountable.
Right now, the American people will not hold the Republicans accountable.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Jackie:
@Betty Cracker:
While scanning the front page of the local paper on Sunday, there was a story about huge turnout for Issue 1. Local election officials were absolutely floored, in a good way. Lots of first time voters and infrequent voters showing up
The way I look at it, is that this was probably the exact opposite of what the Ohio GOP wanted. They wanted a low turnout August election. They’re not getting that. I’m cautiously optimistic
Alison Rose
@UncleEbeneezer: I got called in for jury duty once, must have been about 15 years ago now. I hoped I wouldn’t even have to report, but I did on the second day. Then I hoped there would be a reason for them to excuse me, and I fully planned to fib if needed, because I had zero interest in dealing with this. (I captained a polling place, that was enough civic duty!) Turns out, there was a very good reason and I didn’t have to lie, but I felt like a jackass for being glad about it. The case was about a couple (not sure if married or what) who had been robbing people at gunpoint on the streets (this was in San Francisco). So of course the lawyer asked all of us if we’d ever been the victim of a similar crime, or if we knew someone who had. My mom’s parents had been robbed at gunpoint in their apartment building in New York, which ended up getting them to move to Florida a couple years earlier than they had planned. As soon as I mentioned that, the lawyer was like “okay buh-bye now”. I was relieved, but also chagrined at the reason for my relief.
geg6
@Westyny:
This.
CaseyL
I’ve always wanted jury duty. It used to bother me that I’ve only been called a few times and only been seated twice – most everyone else wants to be excused; I want to serve, and yet I don’t get called more often. Jeez.
Mike in NC
When they strap Fat Bastard into the vintage electric chair, let Nancy Pelosi throw the switch.
UncleEbeneezer
@Alison Rose: I told them I regularly work on police reform activism and figured that would probably get me excused, but alas…
geg6
@CaseyL:
I have been called too many times to count at the local level. And twice for federal court. I never get chosen for a jury. I get all the hassle and none of the interesting stuff.
Alison Rose
@CaseyL: See, this is what I hate about the system. There are plenty of people like you who want to do it, and certainly people who don’t have to worry about losing pay or their work not getting done or finding childcare and whatnot. So why can’t we have a thing where people can apply to be in a regular jury pool, and they go to that first before bothering the general public? You make rules about how often a person can serve or whatever, but if you get a few thousand people (give or take depending on the city) to sign up as sort of professional jurors, then other people who don’t want to do it or for whom it would be a huge inconvenience are less likely to be pulled in.
Brachiator
@Betty Cracker:
Great write-up on Pelosi. She has done a great job in checking Trump and in saving democracy.
Yep. And of course , Trump hates women who defy him. And particularly black women who defy him. It is a sickness with him.
sab
Pelosi and Trump. It’s like she was his childhood babysitter and they both grew up. She is still older and wiser than him.
She is an institutionalist, and twice he pushed her over the edge into inpeaching him.
UncleEbeneezer
@Adam L Silverman: But where is the evidence that 1.) this advisor actually knows what DOJ was/wasn’t doing (they’ve been famously tight-lipped about ongoing investigations) and 2.) what the advisor says is actually true? How do we prove or disprove those? If he feels the Committee’s job was to spur DOJ into action, isn’t there a pretty obvious incentive for him to spin any informational void in a way that lets him claim the Committee spurred DOJ into action, did their job and saved Democracy? Especially knowing DOJ can’t respond.
Brachiator
@Alison Rose:
I have been selected for jury duty a few times, but have never served on a jury. Got deselected or whatever the term is, by one of the attorneys a couple of times.
I wonder what the attorneys here think about professional juries?
I guess I figure that as citizens, not much is asked of us. Voting and jury duty seem like reasonable duties.
Ruckus
@Nelle:
I live in LA county with 9 million other souls so there is some amount of criming going on. I once lived in a county here in CA with a population of 1/4 a million, so not as much criming going on but not near as many people to sit on the jury, so I believe I served there 4 times in 6 yrs. Twice on juries. I’ve served before in CA as well, sitting on a jury once. At least I know and understand the routine.
Honus
@Suzanne: Mark Twain’s actual quote is “Heaven for climate, hell for conversation “
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
I get and understand your point. That small county I lived in I owned and ran a 1 man retail business. Being on a jury meant my business was closed. No open – no sales – no possible profit – real possible loss of customers.
We all have lives and most of us work or at least did till we retired. Jury duty, well, invades that. But – and it’s a big and fully rounded but, it is part of being a citizen. I didn’t want to be in the military in a time of war. But it was volunteer or be drafted (#18 draft lottery pick – I was going) into the army or marines and go to war and quite possibly die for a war I didn’t believe in. I joined the USN – for 4 yrs instead of drafted for 2. It sucked but not near as much as it very much could have. When I first started reading BJ we had a few meet ups here in SoCal. On man I sat across from once was drafted and served in combat in Vietnam. Drafted into the Marines he did boot camp, infantry training – 12 weeks, 1 week leave, sent to Vietnam as a forward machine gunner on a river patrol boat. 18-19 yrs old he’s the first to shoot from the boat and the first to be shot at. The reason I’ve told this is that this was my worst nightmare about the draft, and I met a man because of BJ who lived his and my worst nightmare.
Life isn’t always good to us, it is often very unfair, and it’s only as good as we make it. Some have it far easier, some have it far harder. I had a cousin who lived 6 months – some don’t have it at all. All 3 women in my family had breast cancer – it killed 2 of them. I’m now the oldest in my extended family. I was the youngest in my immediate family. I’ve always said “Live YOUR life, not the one someone else wants for you. It won’t always be the one you dreamed or dream of, it will often be full of potholes and cliffs to fall off of. I was born before the polio vaccine and went to school for 12 yrs with a survivor. There is a woman my age in my apt complex that had polio at 1 yr old, she lives in a wheelchair. I had encephalitis at 7 yrs old. Look it up it’s a fun disease. I got it from the measles.
The point of all of this is that no matter how bad any of us have been treated in life there is almost always someone who has had it worse. That does NOT justify making someone’s life harder because of any of the crap that conservatives think is justification, and it’s far, far too long a list which shouldn’t even exist. But I’d bet you know it well. Most of us do.
Honus
@Adam L Silverman: so Denver Riggelman is a democrat now?
Msb
What Betty Cracker said.
Also: Queen.
Aussie Sheila
@Adam L Silverman:
Word. It’s shocking to people outside USA how slow the ‘system’ has been in investigating and punishing the ringleaders as opposed to the foot soldiers. You had an attempt at an auto golpe, and 3.5 years later the justice system is moving to indict the ringleaders.
Unforgivable. And a lasting example of how systems treat the powerful as opposed to the powerless. Smith is obviously very good.
Garland is obviously in love with process and optics much more than justice. Not impressed with his record. At all.
AM in NC
@UncleEbeneezer: You are the anti-me. I’ve been a consistently registered voter in various locations for over 35 years, and the only time I have been called for jury duty was a couple of week after I moved out of state and the (now irrelevant) summons was forwarded to me.
My 20-year-old son has already been called.
‘Tis a mystery.
Glidwrith
@Aussie Sheila: And yet, here we are: what had been the most powerful man on the planet IS being called to justice.
I’m not a student of history, but how many leaders who pulled a coup or attempted one and were actually held accountable by their government? (ETA, subbed a better word for system)
And the ICC doesn’t count, because by definition it’s outside anyone’s government.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Aussie Sheila: three and a half years?
@Honus: if Riggleman did anything to hold Trump accountable while in Congress, I missed it. I know he voted against impeachment
Miss Bianca
@OzarkHillbilly:
True dat. However I am hoping that, in the words of the old Stones classic, “this may be the last time, this may be the last time, may be the last time, I don’t know…”
arrieve
@Alison Rose: In NY state courts, you can volunteer for jury duty. Not the federal courts, though. I didn’t realize that wasn’t the case in most places. I remember that because my thought was you’d really have to be bored to volunteer for jury duty.
Or a masochist. I was once on a jury in murder case and feel that that’s enough jury duty for a lifetime. I still have bad dreams about it sometimes.