Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

They traffic in fear. it is their only currency. if we are fearful, they are winning.

Everything is totally normal and fine!!!

White supremacy is terrorism.

Republicans seem to think life begins at the candlelight dinner the night before.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

The Supreme Court cannot be allowed to become the ultimate, unaccountable arbiter of everything.

The fundamental promise of conservatism all over the world is a return to an idealized past that never existed.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

Within six months Twitter will be fully self-driving.

How can republicans represent us when they don’t trust women?

Ah, the different things are different argument.

Bad news for Ron DeSantis is great news for America.

The next time the wall street journal editorial board speaks the truth will be the first.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Bark louder, little dog.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

I conferred with the team and they all agree – still not tired of winning!

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

A lot of Dems talk about what the media tells them to talk about. Not helpful.

Republicans don’t trust women.

It’s easier to kill a dangerous animal than a man who just happens to have different thoughts/values than one’s own.

No one could have predicted…

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Friday Morning Open Thread: Retribution?

Friday Morning Open Thread: Retribution?

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Friday Morning Open Thread: Retribution, At Last

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  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    the thing about the Georgia mugshots is that it is bad and unnecessary to humiliate most criminals and it is good and necessary to humiliate criminals who can’t be restrained by prison but can be restrained by disgrace

    First off, most of the criminals I’ve known were incapable of shame and 2nd of all, that goes double for trump and his criminal troupe.

    eta:

    because he is personally roughly as powerful as the American legal system taken as a whole

    Ummmmm…. no, just no.

  3. 3.

    caphilldcne

    I don’t believe he is beyond the capacity of the state to discipline. I do believe a lot of the criminal Justice system fail to hold him or other elites accountable because it’s a lot easier to go after poor defendants than rich defendants with pricey lawyers. Looking at you NY. And honestly I think that inclination was true at DOJ too. So yes, it is a problem of “refusing to do it.”

  4. 4.

    Searcher

    Is it just me, or does that mugshot look more artful than the typical one?

    Is that just because he spent hours prepping hair and makeup for it, and the typical perp just had a sweaty car ride with the police after a rough day, or did they let him bring his own mugshot too?

    I mean, he’s at a slight angle to the camera even, not dead center staring straight ahead like the other nine in that block.

  7. 7.

    Spanky

    Never forget that tfg himself is making money off his mugshot. HE LIKES THAT PHOTO.

    Also too, that Rudy mugshot has a similar vibe to it.

  9. 9.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @caphilldcne: The question for them, and always is with rich fucks, is he worth the trouble? Most of the time they decide against spending years and years in court, than on appeals, with hundreds of thousands of lawyer hours expended all to end up with what amounts to a slap on the wrist fine, because they sure as shit ain’t going to prison. I wish it was otherwise but it ain’t.
    There are of course exceptions, Madoff, Lay*, and Epstein come to mind, but by and large the obscenely rich have the resources to drag things out damned near forever.
    *Lay dragged his appeals out long enough to die before they ran out and as a consequence his conviction was voided.​

  14. 14.

    lowtechcyclist

    One indictment to rule them all.
    One prosecutor to find them.
    One indictment to bring them all, and in the darkness bind them.

    In the state of Georgia, where the prison lies.

  15. 15.

    John S.

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Take it away Pet Shop Boys!

    If you’ve done nothing wrong, you’ve got nothing to fear

    If you’ve something to hide, you shouldn’t even be here

    You’ve had your chance, now we’ve got the mandate

    If you’ve changed your mind I’m afraid its too late

  16. 16.

    Ken

    I just noticed, looking at the police department seal on the wall, that Trump isn’t as tall as most of the other defendants. Are all three of those women 6’2″?

  17. 17.

    narya

    Idle thoughts on a Friday morning . . .

    Order in which I think current list of charges will actually go to trial against TIFG:

    Leticia James in NY; J6 in DC; docs case in FL; Bragg in NY; Fulton County

    I don’t know where to fit in the EJ Carroll case. I think that the Fulton County case is gonna be a hot mess to prosecute–just getting through the severability claims and the move-it-to-federal requests is gonna slow things down. The other big unknown, for me, is the docs case; I don’t trust Cannon as far as I can throw her. OTOH, if she doesn’t permit the Garcia hearing, she’ll be off the case.

    Ed: to get his name out of my sight.

  18. 18.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Searcher: Fulton set aside facilities across the street from where indicted people are processed just for them to prep their appearance. I am not making this up. They are allowed at least two companions (hair, make-up, whatever). Processing itself (taking the mugshot, etc.) is getting done about 30-40 mins total, which is super-fast. I can understand wanting to get these knuckleheads in and out as quickly as possible, but I’m not sure why they’re showing so much deference and accommodation. Fuck ’em.

  20. 20.

    oldster

    He conspired to silence my voice, steal my vote, and then send the US military out to kill me when I protested the coup.

    I hope he is put away for a long, long time

    Oh– and why does his mugshot look more “artful” than most?
    Because the fascist cops who rough up most people on arrest treat him like the leader of their cult. When the cops arrest you or me, they’ll put their hands on your head to force your neck down, they’ll manhandle you any way that they want and you have to put up with it or you’ll be killed for “resisting arrest”.

    But the same goddamn cops treat this guy with kid gloves because they know a fascist when they see one.

  22. 22.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    Fulton set aside facilities across the street from where indicted people are processed just for them to prep their appearance. I am not making this up. They are allowed at least two companions (hair, make-up, whatever). Processing itself (taking the mugshot, etc.) is getting done about 30-40 mins total, which is super-fast. I can understand wanting to get these knuckleheads in and out as quickly as possible, but I’m not sure why they’re showing so much deference and accommodation. Fuck ’em.

    That’s ridiculous. There’s no reason they shouldn’t have had to go through this process the same way any other criminal defendant would have to.

    And fuck the motorcade – next time TFG has to be there, they should send a car to meet him at the airport.

  23. 23.

    p.a.

    I don’t think he looks tough in the mugshot.  I think he looks pissed, like someone cracked a joke at his expense just before hitting the shutter.

    He shouldn’t be angry; they let him wear his orange makeup and keep the comb-over.

  25. 25.

    HinTN

    It’s not persecution, it’s not revenge, it’s not retribution.
    It’s holding a person accountable for their alleged crimes.

    I would turn that around to be, “Any District Attorney who fails to hold politicians accountable for their alleged crimes is demonstrating political bias.”

  27. 27.

    Kay

    Two expert pollsters wanted to know what swing voters thought of the Republican candidates in the Presidential debate — so they tested them with dials as they watched. The results should make the entire Republican Party nervous.

    It’s a podcast and I know a lot of you dislike podcasts, so I’ll summarize. First, normal people don’t like jerks:

    DIAL GROUP FINDINGS: Ron DeSantis and Vivek Ramaswamy each were net negative in their favorability ratings after the debate, as both were seen as polarizing throughout, and a plurality of participants believed Nikki Haley won the debate

    Second, people like public schools and want to keep them and third, no normal people believe climate change is a “hoax” – zero. That’s just for weirdo conspiracy theorists on the far Right.

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    @p.a.: It’s the old dictator scowl. I think many people observed that part of Hitler’s appeal was that he always looked sad and angry. People who were sad and angry would assume that the same things that pissed them off were bothering him.

  32. 32.

    caphilldcne

    @OzarkHillbilly: completely agree. that’s exactly the problem. And of course they also have entrenched allies. So in NY Trump cultivated Giuliani (who himself is an example of this impunity) and the FBI. Add a dose of the press providing undeserved positive coverage and you’ve got the recipe for a failure of accountability. But I do think it’s ultimately a failure of will. Basically I’m not exactly disagreeing with that series of tweets but i think that there’s a very real failure of the DOJ and of NY prosecutors at the root.

  33. 33.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @lowtechcyclist:

    And fuck the motorcade – next time TFG has to be there, they should send a car to meet him at the airport.

    I was surprised that he flew into Atlanta Hartsfield. I figured that the Secret Service would make them use Dobbins for security reasons. The motorcade was way, way over the top. Hopefully Trump’ll fuck up shooting off his mouth and end up cooling his jets (see what I did there?) in Fulton Co. jail. That will keep shenanigans like the motorcade and the hair/make-up “salon” to a minimum.

  34. 34.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: They all spend too much time around each other. They don’t believe there are other people who think differently.

  35. 35.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @John S.:

    Offspring on line 1:

    Goodbye my friend, you messed up again

    You’re going to prison, you’re off to the pen

    You’ve gotten off easy so many times

    I guess no one told you how to get a life

  38. 38.

    Mel

    @Ken: Noticed that, as well.
    TFG has his head slightly tipped forward , but if it were level, it looks like he would be right about the same height as Giuliani.

    Interestingly, WaPo reported that Giuliani’s height / weight were originally listed as 5’9” and 180 lbs. in the booking stats, but were changed later in the day (without explanation for the change) to 5’11” and 230.

    Wonder if somebody in the Trump camp noticed that most of the others, including several of the women (possibly in high heels, but still) were looking like Giant Redwoods compared to the orange horror, and somehow got Rudy’’s deets changed as cover for the orange horror,  since those two     look so close in height in the mugshots?

    Are The Ricoteers being allowed to just self-report their physical data (height, weight, scars, tattoos, etc.) without any confirmation by law enforcement staff, I wonder? That seems…unusual.

  40. 40.

    dmsilev

    @Raoul Paste:

    So, is the caption on that cartoon “215 pounds”?

    I would believe “215 kilograms”. Except that I’m not sure TFG knows what a kg is.

  41. 41.

    Ocotillo

    @Searcher:  I figure he was standing for the shot and with that centaur posture of his, voila, you have the face angled down slightly.

  42. 42.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Mel: Are The Ricoteers being allowed to just self-report their physical data

    On what world does trump weigh 215#? I mean, maybe on the moon but no f’n way on Earth.

  43. 43.

    JaneE

    @p.a.: That expression has to be a deliberate choice, but I don’t think it sends the impression he wanted.  MAGA’s will find it powerful and righteously angry, but everyone will think he looks frustrated, angry and/or not quite right in the head.

  44. 44.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Mel:

    Are The Ricoteers being allowed to just self-report their physical data (height, weight, scars, tattoos, etc.) without any confirmation by law enforcement staff, I wonder? That seems…unusual.

    I have been told that self-reporting and letting them have the photo taken as-is are standard policy there.

  46. 46.

    BC in Illinois

    The former president being arrested is a complex emotional event for any American.

    Luckily, we have multiple opportunities to process it.

    I have had years of preparation for this moment.

    I lived 20+ years in Maryland.

    I lived 20+ years in Illinois.

    We sent Governors to prison on a regular basis.

  49. 49.

    cain

    @Spanky: He’s actually loving the attention – and yeah, he’s going to fundraise the fuck out of that photo. The good news is that he’s going to suck all the GOP money. Once he’s gone I don’t think they are going to get much small donor money – so that means they gotta to go to their oligarchs. Russia is tapped out so…

  54. 54.

    cain

    @lowtechcyclist:

    And fuck the motorcade – next time TFG has to be there, they should send a car to meet him at the airport.

    now now, it’s the first time a GOP president (face it, it’s not likely it will ever be a DEM) has ever been booked like a criminal – so nobody knows the protocol. That’s the most presidential he’s gonna be from here on in. He probably demanded that as part of coming in without causing a fuss.

  55. 55.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    People don’t like (really angry) racist incels who point and shout at them? Surprising finding!

    I think it will be interesting to see how far the Republican Party diverges from normal people. They’re already pretty far out there.

  56. 56.

    cain

    @Kay:

    I think it will be interesting to see how far the Republican Party diverges from normal people. They’re already pretty far out there.

    Just looking at the actions of the GOP after that ohio election – they are still digging in and trying to push that abortion thing despite overwhelming defeat. Just shows they don’t give a fuck about democracy or the will of the people.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    Donald Trump has now been charged in four criminal cases and yet “the country” is doing just fine. 

    Economy humming right along, normal people going about their business, perhaps watching the coverage, perhaps not, power grid still works, kids going back to school, people making Labor Day plans…

    We can hold powerful people accountable and we all don’t just “survive” – it doesn’t matter that much to our day to day lives as long as they’re not in government.

    OF COURSE they told us the country would fall apart without them. Self interest! But it’s not true at all.

  59. 59.

    Betty Cracker

    This bizarre take on the mugshot was “retruthed” by Trump on his shitty Twitter knock-off, so it seems he approves of it. The whole thing is weird, but HRC? I hope she saw it and chuckled over the notion that she’d bother sticking a gun in Hair Furor’s stupid pouty face.

    photoshopped version of Trump's mugshot with guns pointed at him labeled with various enemies

    Trump destroyed himself far more effectively than the most dedicated enemy could ever accomplish while Hillary Clinton was sipping chardonnay and playing with her grandkids.

  60. 60.

    Tony Jay

    All relevant apologies

     

    The lights are on, but you’re not home
    Your time is not your own
    Your flop sweats, your body shakes
    Net closes in, Fani don’t fake
    You can’t sleep (Whoa) you can’t eat
    There’s no doubt, you’re in deep
    Your throat is tight, you can’t breathe
    Another lawyer, that what you need?

    Whoa, you liked to think you were immune to the law, oh yeah
    It’s closer to the truth to say you, just really suck
    You know you’re gonna have to face it, you’re indicted you fuck

    Those docs you stole, but you can’t read
    Your flunkies, are gonna plead
    Your legal team, are paying fines
    So many crimes, you’re doing time
    And that phone call, the one Brad taped
    With the orders, that you gave
    Now there’s no hope, left for you
    You don’t get it, man you’re screwed

    Whoa, you liked to think you were immune to the law, oh yeah
    It’s closer to the truth to say you, just really suck
    You know you’re gonna have to face it, you’re indicted you fuck

    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck
    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck
    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck
    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck
    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck
    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck
    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck
    Might as well face it, you’re indicted you fuck

    Repeat until the cell doors slam closed

  62. 62.

    EM

    One thing that annoyed, me is that in his mugshot the Insignia of the sheriff is substantially smaller than in all the other mugshots, other than Eastman’s. I wanted that symbol of the sheriff to be big and right next to his orange head.

    And second, for all the talk about him taking it as a badge of honor being arrested, you notice they’re not really fundraising off of the mugshot. They altered the mugshot to take out the sheriff insignia. That’s the picture that Trump and his ilk are now selling. So obviously they’re ashamed of it.

  63. 63.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Cameron:

    That expression looks awfully similar to the one you get after telling a kid, “Go to your room.” 

    Are you saying Dump is a manchild? :)

  65. 65.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    third, no normal people believe climate change is a “hoax” – zero.

    So did Haley say she believed global warming is real?

  68. 68.

    mrmoshpotato

    @cain: The good news is that he’s going to suck all the GOP money. Once he’s gone I don’t think they are going to get much small donor money

    They aren’t, because the base is now the fat, orange, fascist’s cult.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

     The whole thing is weird

    Lol. The GOP? Yeah. I think that should be the mantra for normie Democrats – “they’re weird in a.. unsettling way” :)

    Back to basics – these people have horrible personalities. They’re absolutely soaked in that frenetic, nasty Right wing online energy. Like, that’s what passes for a “personality”. You can’t even imagine them doing anything normal.

  71. 71.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    She did! And they liked it. We all knew they don’t like DeSantis (no one does) but my husband told me Vivek was also horrible – justr a smug jerk- so I was glad to see normie independents were repelled by him too.

    Of course those two are the favorites of the GOP base. The worst people.

  72. 72.

    eversor

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Yeah this is wrong.  The GOP base is the Christian vote and they have rallied behind Reagan, Bush II, and Trump (also fucking Palin) and showed up each time.   The Christian vote has gone from Reagan Democrats, to Compassionate Conservatives, to Tea Party, to MAGA but it’s still the Christian vote.

    If Trump fails and falls they will simply move onto the next God King and rebrand again all while waving their Bibles and screaming about the same issues but insisting it’s all about economics.

    We are stuck with this.   They’ve been around since they first got here and started their genocidal war to create a nation for Christianity after they got thrown out of Europe.  Trump isn’t the issue, the issue is Christianity.  Trump going to jail won’t matter as Christianity will still be here.

    As the gradual de Christianization and hostility to Christianty takes place among the younger generations this issue will be resolved.  But until it’s complete nothing else matters.

  76. 76.

    Kay

    Is the city “saying” for Atlanta still “the city too busy to hate”?

    Democrats should make that their 2024 slogan. Leave these corrupt creeps to their motions and arguments to save their own asses from prison. We’re moving on.

  79. 79.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Kay: I’m increasingly leaning towards the belief that the best epithet we can use for MAGA people is to just point out what freaking weirdos they are.  Calling them Racists or Fascists etc., immediately gets into arguments over dictionary definitions.  Calling them “weirdos” hits at an instinctive level where it hurts.  They know that they are out of touch with modern society, truth, facts and culture.  And I think deep down they are extremely insecure about it.

  80. 80.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @lowtechcyclist: That was the only thing I was planning on saying to or about him.  I think his bigotry does need push back but not engagement.  This reply will also be the last thing I say on the topic in this thread.

  82. 82.

    Kay

    @rikyrah:

    It’s so funny when conservatives encounter AA political power because it’s just not part of their world – that it exists. Media never covers it either.

    They act affronted, as if they were tricked. “Where did all the black people come from?!”

    lol. In ATLANTA. They’re shocked to discover all the judges and prosecutors aren’t white. They really don’t know a lot about “America”. The real country. Not their imaginary version.

  83. 83.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @UncleEbeneezer: ​
      I think that’s the perfect approach. PJ O’Rourke (I know) said that he supported HRC in 2016 because even though he thought she was wrong on just about every issue, she was wrong within normal parameters while Trump was simply off the scale.

  84. 84.

    lowtechcyclist

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    What’s more, they’re angry weirdos.  They stay enraged all the time, and Fox News, right wing radio, etc. are continually providing them with new things (and mostly it’s trivial stuff) to be enraged about.

    Back in the 1960s, Al Capp had a satirical student protest group in his L’il Abner comic strip. He named the group “Students Wildly Indignant about Nearly Everything.” (Yeah, S.W.I.N.E. Not that Capp was biased or anything.)  Replace ‘Students’ with ‘Seditionists’ and that’s today’s GQP.

  85. 85.

    Miss Bianca

    @lowtechcyclist: As far as I’m concerned, it is a troll. If a commenter has rare moments of lucidity on topics other than their obsession but returns to their obsession like dogs to their vomit – and then keeps barfing it up for all the rest of us and derailing threads because of the nauseous stink – then yeah, it’s a troll.

  86. 86.

    Scout211

    Maybe the updated style guide for balloon-juice’s reference to the former guy should now be “inmate P01135809,” or maybe just “P01135809.”

  87. 87.

    Kay

    @UncleEbeneezer:

    I’ve been sort of trying it out with people and I agree. We need to give them some “safe” way to differentiate. They’re never going to be comfortable with “fascist”.

    I also think the misogynist, incel tendencies on the Right are super useful politically. Rufo and DeSantis want to exclude women from higher education. The vast majority of the country will be horrified by that. It’s hateful. But you don’t have to lead them all the way there. Just “want to exclude women from X, Y, Z” and let them draw defining conclusion (misogynist). We don’t have to Rachel Maddow them and lead them every..step..of..the..way :)

  88. 88.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    That was the only thing I was planning on saying to or about him.  I think his bigotry does need push back but not engagement.  This reply will also be the last thing I say on the topic in this thread.

    Glad to hear it, he’s derailed enough threads lately.

  89. 89.

    Brachiator

    the thing about the Georgia mugshots is that it is bad and unnecessary to humiliate most criminals and it is good and necessary to humiliate criminals who can’t be restrained by prison but can be restrained by disgrace…

    An arrest and mugshot does not make you a criminal. I will give even Trump the presumption of innocence, a distinction that he himself did not grant to people caught up in the criminal justice system. And it is ironic as hell that Trump now has to feel the sting of folks who automatically brand him a criminal.

    But don’t get me wrong. I hope his guilty ass fries.

    A couple of days ago a local talk show host here who is not deeply conservative nonetheless argued that Trump’s mugshot should not be made public because Trump, as a former president, should be granted a special exemption. This host was actually afraid of what the display of the mugshot might do to the country. It was strange to listen to this radio personality express such fear and dread over the possible impact of the display of Trump’s face in disgrace.

    Some days I still find it hard to believe that Trump was elected president. And goddam he has been a Lord of Misrule. And the crazy thing is that like the most arrogant fraudulent grifters who end up getting arrested and prosecuted and hopefully convicted, he brought all of this down on himself. And people who are much better than Trump are going to have to clean up his mess.

    Trump doesn’t deserve any special consideration. And yeah, I expect him to try to make money off his scowling, defiant face. But it’s not going to prevent people from seeing who and what he is. A loser.

  91. 91.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Miss Bianca: The point is: troll or not, let’s not feed him.

    And following O_O’s example, that’s the last I’ll say on the subject in this thread.

  93. 93.

    Warblewarble

    Excessive motorcade from Bedminster , excessive motorcade to Fulton, all that was missing was tickertape.

  94. 94.

    Burnspbesq

    You know who’s 6’3”, 215? Arizona Cardinals wide receiver Larry Fitzgerald.

    New York Mets first baseman Pete Alonso is 6’3”, 245.

    Trump is … not either of those guys.

  96. 96.

    PaulWartenberg

    @Raoul Paste:

    there is no fcking way trump is 215 lbs. I’m 6’2″ and roughly the same girth as trump and I admit I’m 294 lbs at my last weigh-in. And that was after taking my shoes off to cheat.

    trump is so desperate to lie to make himself look good no matter what, even when reality tells us he’s lying.

  98. 98.

    eversor

    @Kay:

    As a side track on this Atlanta is the economic engine of Georgia.  The war on cities makes no sense.  Trump should also know better, as should Rudy and others.  They didn’t fall off the turnip truck yesterday they come from major cities.  Being shocked you ran into a minority or woman prosecutor in a major city who hurled the book at you and took your photo is sort of a “no shit genius” moment.

  100. 100.

    Scout211

    @Warblewarble: Excessive motorcade from Bedminster , excessive motorcade to Fulton, all that was missing was tickertape.

    Agree. And I wonder how each and every court appearance will go.  Will the “royal motorcade” show up every time? That seems rather, uh, excessive.  And expensive.

  101. 101.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Kay:

    Georgia Republicans based in and around Atlanta, Savannah, Albany and Augusta (and a few other military-facing communities) are obligated to act differently so as to not scare the generic “inside local beltways” normies that they have to count on to supply enough votes to win. Kemp and Raffensberger have a clear field to absolutely torpedo the bloated orange mediocrity without any fear for their own positions or futures.

    Think “lawful evil”, kind of like Liz Cheney.

  102. 102.

    Shana

    @OzarkHillbilly: I was at a fundraiser recently with Glen Kirshner who is ex-DOJ and he said that DOJ etc have such high conviction rates because they (usually) only bring cases they’re sure of winning. And well-heeled people who can and do afford high-powered attorneys are not in the category of “sure of winning”.

  104. 104.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    As an aside, I wonder if we can have a thread in honor of deceased Balloon Juice posters who would have relished these indictments?  Maybe honoring prescient comments?

  105. 105.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @lowtechcyclist: you put your finger on a point that puzzles me.  Why are they so angry?  Do they like being angry?

    For me this is personal.  I grew up in New York City and although I moved to CA many years ago I still have a certain amount of that stress response in me.  I moved away for many reasons, first of all a job, but high on the list was to get away from the constant stress.  It was not good for me.

    These days I have come to realize I don’t like being angry.  I still have the emotion of course, and when it happens I have to accept it, but at least I can notice it and not get caught up in it.

    So many people so angry.  It’s not healthy.

  108. 108.

    Kay

    @Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg:

    I think AA Dem political power is really fascinating and I think it’s so telling that our political media don’t just “not cover it” but REFUSE to acknowlege it exists.

    Every cycle the NYTimes political team does the same dumb “white working class” article about Youngstown. But it’s not actually about “Youngstown”. It’s about the COUNTY that contains Youngstown. So like AROUND Youngstown. If they actually did “Youngstown” they would have to acknowlege that there are powerful AA pols in Ohio – and they’re 99% Democrats. They cover Cleveland the same way. They cover the white inner ring suburbs of Cleveland and call it “Cleveland”. It’s ridiculous.

  109. 109.

    Ken

    @Scout211: balloon-juice’s reference to the former guy should now be “inmate P01135809,” or maybe just “P01135809.”

    Can someone set it to “867-5309”?

  110. 110.

    Mike in NC

    Waiting for Trump to scale the Empire State Building, trying to swat away the DOJ biplanes buzzing his giant malignant ass.

  112. 112.

    Ceci n est pas mon nym

    @Spanky: Never forget that tfg himself is making money off his mugshot. HE LIKES THAT PHOTO.

    Indeed. As I pointed out in another thread, this expression is identical to the official photo that graced every federal agency during his tenure.

    I’ve seen a number of people commenting on the lighting, unusually flattering for a mug shot, and speculating (or speaking from knowledge?) that he was allowed to control the lighting.

  113. 113.

    UncleEbeneezer

    It looks like DOJ policy is not to release mug shots to the public, for any criminal defendant.  They don’t believe there is a benefit to the case and that it potentially can harm the rights of the defendant who is presumed innocent.  So that really isn’t a failure on Garland or Smith’s account.  They are simply following SOP for DOJ, which frankly, seems like the better policy based on Reid’s desire for the principle of fairness and protecting of civil rights.  Fulton County policy is different so Fani Willis is following those.

  114. 114.

    eversor

    @Omnes Omnibus:

    I’m going to be open and blunt about this.   Me and my siblings were molested by liberal Christians from a happy church that had female priests and pride flags.  Also raised funds for the poor and had soup kitchens.  Nobody fucking cared.  We had the right liberal views on abortion, gay rights, and everything else.

    I’ve also read the Bible, we were forced too so I know all the nasty shit in there that people pretend doesn’t exist, or flat out lie and say it’s all in the Old Testament, or Jesus didn’t endorse it.  I had to hear all that bullshit for years.  And it’s just that, bullshit and lies.  The religion is infinitely more nasty than anything even Rod Dreher and Rick Santorum would go along with.

    How did I end up in Church?  Well my dads family was exterminated by Christians back in Europe.  So we went to Church here to avoid that fate.

    So unlike many of you I cannot afford illusions about Christianity or Christ.  Nor can I afford to tolerate the lies about how it’s good.  Doing that ended in mass killings and hurt kids.  So I will not do it.

    Sorry if you don’t like it, but I don’t have that luxury.

  115. 115.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @Shana:

    The deal is this – when DOJ brings cases, the indictments  are generally well crafted in terms of their structure around such facts as are known and the law as it is understood at the time.  The infrequent losses which occur aren’t usually due to some grandiose error – a jury may simply decide that they like or dislike certain witnesses, or an appellate court may decide to shift direction on the law.

    As LAO, Immanentize, Kay and OO may tell you, the real art is in how you mitigate things for your client along the way, sometimes with deals, sometimes with carving up evidence.  Even then, some clients won’t listen to what you’ve done for them, or the prosecution hasn’t offered you something that’s worth taking and then you have to just roll the dice.

  116. 116.

    Kay

    @Shana:

    have such high conviction rates because they (usually) only bring cases they’re sure of winning.

    This is true of all prosecutors so when they brag about 99% convictions (bullshit stat) or whatever remember they pick their cases. They “bring”. There isn’t really a metric to measure prosecutors.

    I suppose if they lost one of their carefully handpicked slam dunks that would mean they were “bad” :)

  117. 117.

    catclub

    @Kay: They  “want to exclude women from X, Y, Z” and let them draw defining conclusion.

     

    … just like the Taliban.

  119. 119.

    Maxim

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:

    Do they like being angry?

    I’ve seen some pretty persuasive arguments that they are quite literally addicted to it, thanks to decades of right-wing media conditioning them into it. It’s their normal now, and they’re uncomfortable, not just psychologically or cognitively but physiologically, when they’re not angry.

  120. 120.

    Ruckus

    I don’t know her or where she’s from, but I like Rep. Gloria Johnson.

    “Because I needed a laugh.”

    Thing is I actually wonder if he is the worst of the worst? And also this country had a bad case of the DT’s.

    And that isn’t delirium tremens, which is bad but not this bad. And no I’ve never had them, but I have seen them in action. The cause isn’t the same as what we caught, the results have been worse

    Also the Lincoln Project link to the picture in the bar of the crowed getting slightly excited – that’s about right.

  121. 121.

    MattF

    I’ve gotten weary of TFG’s whining and lying. This has gone on for nearly two years, and it’s clear that he will never give a Planck length, not ever. I get that he doesn’t want to be seen as a loser, but IRL, that’s exactly what he is.

    ETA: I bought a Mug Shot mug.

  122. 122.

    bbleh

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: I call them “anger junkies” based on their behavior alone.  They’ll get angry at almost anything, especially anything they’re told to be angry about, and if they don’t have something immediately to hand, they’ll invent one or dredge one up from the past.  They need the hit.

    And as to why that is, my hypothesis is: (1) anger is easy — some call it a “covering emotion” — and it can mask certain other feelings they might rather not have (eg I think some of them really are kind of embarrassed about the overt bigotry); (2) their friends are doing it, and their social media contacts, and the other media they consume, and “belonging” is very important for a lot of these folks; and (3) I think for some of them it makes them feel more alive — it’s not just a hit to satisfy the craving; they actually feel good when they’re angry

    ETA: apparently Maxim thinks along the same lines.  Fine; it’s settled then.

  123. 123.

    Kay

    @Shana:

    And some of that is good! You wouldn’t want them bringing bad cases because that’s not fair to the defendants and it’s bad for the system as a whole. But there’s a world of grey between “bad cases” and “cases they are sure to win” and no one can really define it, so no one can really measure their performance. They have discretion.

  124. 124.

    West of the Rockies

    Trump might want to trim those friggin’ eyebrows… those things look like small mammals.

  128. 128.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @eversor: I wasn’t going to comment in this again, but you just made a good faith explanation of your position.  I am sorry that this happened and I can understand where your anger comes from.  That said, eliminationism is never the answer and, as long as you keep calling for it, I will object.

  129. 129.

    Karen

    On MSNBC last night they were mentioning a special commission in Georgia that can “investigate” Fani Willis and stop the indictment in its tracks. Does anyone know anything about this?

  130. 130.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Shana: DOJ is remarkably focussed on winning and protecting the accused rights’.  I watched a good video the other day where Ben Meiselas of MeidasTouch argued that one of the reasons that Chuktan is unlikely to throw Trump in jail, pre-trial is because that would cause significant delays due to litigation.  Indeed, Jack Smith in his response to Trump’s BS argument for a 2026 trial, pointed out that the average length of trial Trump’s lawyers were citing to justify such a huge delay, were long because of the fact that “litigation over pre-trial detention” was a significant factor for them.  As much as we all might emotionally crave seeing Smith push to get Trump thrown in the brig, that would actually be contrary to Smith’s strategy of bringing the 1/6 case to trial FAST.  He is also being advised by a team of appellate law experts to try and make sure that any conviction he wins won’t be overturned on appeal.

  131. 131.

    trollhattan

    Will just leave this here, from today’s “Letters of note.”

    The worst punishment God can devise for this sinner is to make her spirit reside eternally at the Trump Taj Mahal in Atlantic City.

    Harper Lee
    Letter to Doris Leapard
    25th August 1990

  132. 132.

    Ruckus

    @MattF:

    I’ve gotten weary of TFG’s whining and lying. This has gone on for nearly two years….

    SFB has been whining and lying his entire life. This is not new. He’s a spoiled 7 yr old in an old, overweight, useless body. He stole inheritance money from his siblings to start his life of stupidity, pompous ignorance, decadence, and waste of oxygen. And over the last 70 yrs he’s gotten worse at being human.

  133. 133.

    WaterGirl

    @Ken: I don’t care what anybody says, that looks like a professional photograph to me, with professional lighting, carefully posed, and I believe that the logo was added to the image.

  134. 134.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @bbleh: I believe anger releases a Serotonin rush.  It’s addictive.  This explains 90% of behavior on social media and in blog comment sections.

  135. 135.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:

    Do they like being angry?

    Some people enjoy being angry.  I am not one of them, but I have known them.  It not only isn’t rare, it could easily be more common than not enjoying being angry.

    My best guess is that it’s like an adrenaline rush.  A lot of people enjoy those, and get hooked on them.  I find them miserable.

  136. 136.

    Quinerly

    @WaterGirl: someone on the late night thread explained it very well. They let him pick his lighting. A photographer friend of mine agreed. As I said yesterday, he was in the complex 21 minutes. Probably at the actual booking half that time

    Edited to add that I dipped in from the bottom up so lighting has been discussed.

    I’m on the move today…can’t hang around. I do want more info on the transfer of ownership of MAL on 8/4.

  137. 137.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I listened to the 1A news roundup this morning, and not once did they address the problem that Republican positions on issues are not popular outside the Republican base. What are these candidates going to do once they get nominated and are stuck with positions like wanting a nationwide ban on abortion after 6 weeks and pretending we can’t do anything about climate change? The press doesn’t seem to think that’s an issue.

  139. 139.

    Anyway

    Who provided the motorcade? The city? The county? He didn’t pay for it, right? And the secret service is probably one car in addition to his personal towncar or whatever he goes for…

  140. 140.

    Soprano2

    @cain: It’s the fervor of a religious fanatic, who thinks they know better than you do what’s good for you. “I’m purifying your soul by burning you at the stake for your own good” would be a position they could take under the right circumstances.

  141. 141.

    Ruckus

    @Spanky:

    Rudy and SFB are not the same, but they are similar in many ways. Pompous, arrogant, far, far more believing that the limelight is good for them than it actually is, because it gives anyone without their head stuffed some place it doesn’t normally belong, a picture of the, not necessarily the bad side of life, but the pompous, arrogant, not actually successful but promoted as if they are side. Remember Rudy after 9-11? See SFB now? Yeah they really shine as human beings.

  142. 142.

    BeautifulPlumage

    The main thing that photo says to me is ” tilt head down to hide double chin and weird neck folds.”

  143. 143.

    Hoodie

    @Kay:  It appears that support for Trump roughly follows rural/urban contours, with some weird exceptions in places like Florida.  After traveling to Denver and then Wyoming and then back to Denver, one thing that struck me is the difference in population density may be lost on a lot of rural folks because of humans have a sort of built in innumeracy bias, similar to the documented misperception of the wealth gap.   In particular, people tend to generalize their particular circumstances, even if those circumstances are not numerically significant or representative.  For example, Lander WY was founded in 1869 and has a current population of around 8000.  There are 5 times that many people in Green Valley Ranch CO, which is a new neighborhood near Denver International Airport that didn’t exist 10 years ago (BTW, the demographics of folks in Green Valley Ranch are very different from those in Lander).  I don’t think that type of disparity registers with people in lower density areas.  Therefore, they don’t get that, just because all their friends are Trumpers, that doesn’t mean that they aren’t swamped in terms of numbers by people who detest Trump in huge, dense cities like Atlanta and Denver.   Honestly, if you could move just one of the smaller Front Range cities (e.g., Fort Collins or Pueblo) into Wyoming, Wyoming would turn blue or at least, purple.

  144. 144.

    WaterGirl

    @lowtechcyclist:

    Personally, I always appreciate this from Omnes in response to that commenter:

    A bigot says what?

    It’s a simple reminder, and I don’t believe that Omnes engages with him otherwise, so it doesn’t derail the thread.

    edit: written before the reply from Omnes at #80

  146. 146.

    Kay

    @catclub:

    I think the New College thing in FL is just endlessly exploitable by Democrats. Rufo’s theory of the country is wrong. Whatever he does the opposition should jump on.

    68% of people oppose banning AA history AP courses. 68%. Anti woke is a loser politically.

  149. 149.

    Soprano2

    @eversor: Trump going to jail won’t matter as Christianity will still be here.

    Oh, Trump going to jail absolutely matters. I think pardoning Nixon was the beginning of the trend that led us to TFG. Nixon basically got away with it, then Reagan and his administration got away with Iran/Contra, and George W. got away with all the awful things they did in Iraq. If you don’t hold people accountable for what they do, it makes things worse.

  150. 150.

    Ruckus

    @Betty Cracker:

    Trump destroyed himself far more effectively than the most dedicated enemy could ever accomplish while Hillary Clinton was sipping chardonnay and playing with her grandkids.

    THIS. All of this is his own doing. No one is or ever has been holding a gun to his head making him this shitty of a human being. But look at that picture, blaming everyone else but THE problem child – himself.

  154. 154.

    smith

    @Kay: I think AA Dem political power is really fascinating and I think it’s so telling that our political media don’t just “not cover it” but REFUSE to acknowlege it exists.

    Here’s an interesting fact about that lack of attention: We hear endlessly about the political clout of white evangelicals; in fact, one of our major parties has tied its very existence to them. As of 2020, white evangelicals made up 14% of the US population. Estimated percent of US population that is AA: 14.2%. And yet, as you say, if your reality is shaped by the media, you’d never know that by rights the AA population should have as much political clout as white evangelicals.

  156. 156.

    Geminid

     

     

    @Anyway: I could see the Secret Service using 2 or even 3 carloads of agents for this particular excursion, plus agents in Trump’s car. Fulton County police and/or deputies may have accounted for a couple more.

    I expect (or hope) there will be reporting that breaks down the composition of the motorcade, accounting for the extra vehicles. The Secret Service must have at least screened any non-law enforcement vehicles. I guess I’m more curious than outraged though

  158. 158.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    100% agree. If GOP voters continue to back Trump and Trump is then convicted of a felony and is their nominee that is not an “America” problem, it is a GOP problem. They made this fucking bed. A numerical majority of the country had nothing to do with it and we have shit to get done. They’ve been a drag on the country long enough. He has a good lawyer and he can face his charges and the rest of us who are not criminals can get on with it.

  159. 159.

    Anyway

    @UncleEbeneezer:

      Calling them Racists or Fascists etc., immediately gets into arguments over dictionary definitions.  Calling them “weirdos” hits at an instinctive level

    D’accord! yes, I hate using racists and fascists – it immediately derails the convo and the argument gets lost. Weirdos is a good start.

  160. 160.

    WaterGirl

    @Frankensteinbeck: Do you really think that some random white guy who is picked up for selling drugs, or some random black guy who is arrested for daring to question the officer who arrested him for driving while black… actually gets to choose his lighting for the mug shot?

  161. 161.

    Kay

    @smith:

    I’m not even saying “should”. I’m saying “is”. I’m just asking that they cover the places and instances of observable, real, AA political power. They don’t have to do any thinking at all- just cover what is.

  165. 165.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @WaterGirl:

    I think a random white guy who committed the type of crime where you report in rather than being dragged straight in would get a shrug and a “Sure, whatever.”

    EDIT – Especially since by ‘choose the lighting’ I mean Trump either stepped forward a little into a spot he preferred the lighting of, or had someone with him holding up a prepared lamp while the cops rolled their eyes.

  166. 166.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    They really don’t know a lot about “America”. The real country. Not their imaginary version.

    They are like spoiled 5 yr olds with 6 figure bank accounts. Their world revolves not around the north/south poles, but another one located within themselves.

  167. 167.

    Philbert

    @Chief Oshkosh: Thanks, I wondered about that. That mugshot is a well-madeup planned resistance pose. And what about hieight and weight? The over/under betting was fierce. I was in for 300+.

  168. 168.

    Scout211

    @Karen: On MSNBC last night they were mentioning a special commission in Georgia that can “investigate” Fani Willis and stop the indictment in its tracks. Does anyone know anything about this?

    Sounds like a bunch of partisan threats at this stage.

    11Alive

    FULTON COUNTY, Ga. — This week, another Georgia Republican called for an investigation into Fulton County District Attorney Fani Willis following the recent election indictment against former President Donald Trump and 18 others.

    State Sen. Clint Dixon (R-Buford) said he will be filing a formal complaint to the Prosecuting Attorneys Qualifications Commission (PAQC). The eight-member commission, which was created this year in Senate Bill 92, is expected to meet for the first time this October.The oversight committee has the investigative power to look into rogue D.A.s like Fani Willis,” he told 11Alive.

    According to a release from the governor’s office, the PAQC “has the authority to investigate alleged misconduct by district attorneys and solicitors-general and discipline, remove, or cause the involuntary retirement of those who meet the conditions for removal.”

  170. 170.

    artem1s

    including means we would never use against anyone else,

    NOPE. Just No. Treating him just like everyone else will be enough.

    because he is personally roughly as powerful as the American legal system taken as a whole

    This is hyperbole. TFG’s “power” only exists in his own mind (and obviously in the mind of this Xitter asshole) You cannot maintain the legal system’s legitimacy if it’s applied unequally. That’s why the asshole reported to GA yesterday – that power this Xitter says TFG has only exists if the masses keep handing it over to him. Obviously if TFG ever had the power of the whole legal system behind him he would still be in the WH.

  174. 174.

    Ruckus

    @Brachiator:

    SFB is a loser. He’s proven that time and time again. Over his entire life. He’s just taken it to about as high a level as it gets. He’s done damage to this country and to the world by being who he is. He will continue to create loser stink till he’s no longer able to wear that number on his jail clothes. Which he likely never will have to do. But he should. He’s been this person his entire life, but he’s pushed it way past the limits and because he thinks knows his shit doesn’t stink, he has no understanding of the limits of who and what he really is.

  175. 175.

    artem1s

    @cain:

    so nobody knows the protocol

    It’s also possible that the GA courts and LEOs don’t want to fuck up the way the Dallas police did and have the defendant end up like L.H. Oswald.

  176. 176.

    Scout211

    CNNStephen Lee, the Illinois-based pastor accused of intimidating a Georgia election worker after the 2020 election, has surrendered at the Fulton County jail – the last of 19 defendants charged in the Georgia election interference case to do so.

    District Attorney Fani Willis charged Lee with five state crimes, including violating Georgia’s anti-racketeering law, influencing a witness, and conspiring to solicit false statements.

    Prosecutors say Lee participated in a plot to pressure an Atlanta worker into falsely admitting that she committed massive fraud against former President Donald Trump in the 2020 election.

  181. 181.

    Geminid

    @Scout211: There are two panels. A five member panel is the investigating body, and a separate 3 member panel hears evidence brought by the first and decides whether a prosecutor will be removed.

    Governor Kemp got to pick one member for each panel. I’m not sure who picks the others or if they have been chosen yet. Kemp was low key about his selections; his office announced 77 picks for various Georgia boards and his selections for these panels were buried at #75 and #76.

    My Atlanta friend happens to know Kemp’s choice for the investigative panel, a recently retired Superior Court judge with 32 years on the bench who in my friend’s words, “has seen it all.” My friend thinks the judge will likely be a moderating force, but he’ll be just one of five members.

  183. 183.

    Kay

    Heartland Signal
    @HeartlandSignal
    20h
    Nikki Haley tells Bloomberg News “65 is way too low” for the retirement age, advocates attaching it to life expectancy

    Oh, yay. They’re going after Social Security again. The one fucking thing they could have learned from Trump was to leave Social Security alone, but instead they adopted all of his other unpopular positions and not the single popular one.

    Good for Biden and congressional Dems, though. Nickki Haley thinks people who worked from 18 to 65 shouldn’t retire. She insists they work a couple of extra years so she can deliver more rich people tax cuts.

  184. 184.

    Elizabelle

    @Tony Jay: Wunderbar.

    And eventually the chorus can be “Might as well face it, you’re convicted, you fuck.”  And then “you’re in prison, you fuck.”

  186. 186.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I think they know something about America that we keep forgetting, or denying: the depth and pervasiveness of the crawling evil in the white American soul. They love it. It may yet win.

  187. 187.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    P01135809 – how many MAGAts are going to use that as their password now thinking that they’re “edgy” or “smart”?

  189. 189.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    @artem1s:
    TFG’s “power” only exists in his own mind …

    Yes and no. He has a substantial number of supporters. We can’t just dismiss him. This is a real test for the legal system and the country. I hope we’re up to it but I’m not certain.

  191. 191.

    Kay

    WOKE AF
    @stefsstuff2
    20h
    Replying to @HeartlandSignal
    in 2021 average life expectancy of women in the US was 79, men 71 and it has since dropped but @NikkiHaley thinks 65 is too young to retire. Thing is most Americans can’t afford to stop working thanks to her and her republican colle

    Nikki Haley (well, her donors) think American men should have less than 6 years of retirement. She actually thinks 6 years is “way” too long.

    They’re fringe.

  193. 193.

    Jeffro

    @Scout211:Maybe the updated style guide for balloon-juice’s reference to the former guy should now be “inmate P01135809,” or maybe just “P01135809.”

    How about “inmate POS #1”?

  197. 197.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Geminid:

    I expect (or hope) there will be reporting that breaks down the composition of the motorcade, accounting for the extra vehicles. The Secret Service must have at least screened any non-law enforcement vehicles. I guess I’m more curious than outraged though

    The motorcade was outrageous and egregious. What warranted all those motorcycles and cars? Who made the decision to have all these vehicles?

    Assuming this was the American taxpayers’ expense, it’s hard for me not to be disgusted by this display of deference and the message it sends. No other ex president has this sort of escort, but we afford it to one accused of multiple felonies?

  199. 199.

    West of the Rockies

    @eversor:

    That is fucking awful.  Makes my experience of being slapped and “rulered” by Catholic nuns seem pleasant.

    Have you considered looking for a good therapist to help process what has to be complex trauma?  I get why you are so embittered, but ultimately that’s a toxin in your own system, isn’t it?

  209. 209.

    patrick II

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Most rich people have not committed equivalent crimes of a national insurrection, however, some have.

    An attempted insurrection has only been tried three times before if you don’t count Reagan in ’80. Jefferson Davis, the president of the Confederacy, spent two years as a prisoner starting in 1865 and in 1867 was released on bail.  He claimed trying him for treason would be double jeopardy since he was already being punished by being banned from running for office and a trial for treason would be double jeopardy.  Jefferson Davis was given a pardon. The unresolved issues of the Civil War still linger overthis country like a dark cloud.

    The Nixon campaign committed treason in 1968 by conspiring with the enemy to continue a war against the United States.  They were successful in their efforts to extend the war and win the election.  Thousands more American soldiers died in a futile war. All but Kissinger are dead now, none were punished and Kissinger remains alive as a holy shrine of statesmanship.

    In 2000 George Bush conspired in an insurrection with fellow conspirators being his brother Jeb Bush, the governor of Florida, and Katherine Harris, the Secretary of State who conspired to not enforce the Florida law that calls for a manual recount if the vote difference is within 1/2%. Additionally in the conspiracy were Roger Stone, who was behind the Brooks Brothers riot that stopped the manual vote count in Miami-Dade County that could well have put Gore in front, and the Supreme Court who let Jeb and Harris get away with their insurrection because reasons.  Plus other unnamed co-conspirators.

    Their “punishment”, which we all shared, was an eight-year George Bush presidency.

    So, we haven’t been too successful at holding insurrectionists and traitors accountable so far.  Lets hope we get it right this time.

  210. 210.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Kay: My full retirement age was 65 plus 14 months so Nikki is already full of shit.

    It is sad to me that many people have to work forever or pretty close to it. It’s vastly different than working because you like or want to, not to mention that some jobs break people.

    I don’t doubt that these second stringers will go after SS, Medicare, Medicaid, the ACA. This has been the goal of their funders forevs. They truly believe it’s all their money and no amount of money is ever enough or too much.

  211. 211.

    Ruckus

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I have a lot of commercial flight hours under my belt. Used to work in pro sports and traveled 8-9 months a year, almost every week. I’ve sat on the same plane with some strange people. I would have gotten off, bought another ticket or slept on the floor of an airport overnight not to have to sit on the same plane and especially near that.

  213. 213.

    Soprano2

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: Why are they so angry?  Do they like being angry?

    Because they’ve figured out that they aren’t in charge of everything anymore, and they can’t control women and minorities like they used to, and they’re angry about it.

  214. 214.

    Kay

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    I’ve already seen them floating cutting Medicare to make eligibility at 67 rather than 65.

    I sincerely hope they try this. Biden could run on nothing else.

  215. 215.

    West of the Rockies

    I would like to see a Sinnerman video with Trump shambling about unsuccessfully seeking protection

    But the Lord say, Go to the devil…

  216. 216.

    Ruckus

    @mrmoshpotato:

    Are you saying Dump is a manchild?

    No.

    Just a child. A snotty child. At about 5yrs old. Because really, is he any more advanced than 5? Just because he’s existed an additional 72 yrs doesn’t mean he’s moved past being a snotty toddler.

  217. 217.

    Kay

    This would be risky but (some) liberals are creative and funny so maybe could pull it off.

    Biden could joke about his own age while attacking them on cutting Social Security/Medicare. He could say “I know you don’t want to work as long as ME..” Well, that but funnier.

    Make the contrast with the grim, hateful conservative pols even sharper by making light of his vulnerability. They would never, ever do that. You can’t imagine Trump or DeSantis making fun of themselves.

  218. 218.

    StringOnAStick

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: Some people definitely like being angry.  My R father is one of them.  I think it gives him a sense of self righteous self worth, p!us most people back down when someone gets angry so it’s an all purpose argument winner and this a status builder.

  220. 220.

    Brachiator

    @patrick II:

    An attempted insurrection has only been tried three times before if you don’t count Reagan in ’80.

    The Whiskey Rebellion of 1791 turned into an attempted insurrection. The results?

    The insurrection collapsed as the federal army marched west into western Pennsylvania in October 1794. Some of the most prominent leaders of the insurrection, such as David Bradford, fled westward to safety. It took six months for those who were charged to be tried. Most were acquitted due to mistaken identity, unreliable testimony and lack of witnesses. Two were sentenced to hang.

    President Washington pardoned the two men who had been tried and sentenced. One thing here to note, I think. This happened when the federal government was still new and its citizens had to accept its legitimacy. And so, historians have concluded:

    The Whiskey Rebellion demonstrated that the new national government had the will and ability to suppress violent resistance to its laws.

    Trump’s unhinged behavior tears at norms, laws and policy that most people have accepted and have taken for granted for a long time. We may have to deal with the consequences of this for quite a while.

  221. 221.

    Geminid

    @Sure Lurkalot: My guess is that some of the vehicles were local law enforcement paid by Fulton County or the City of Atlanta, and some were federal paid. The state of Georgia may have fielded one or two as well. The motorcycles did seem excessive.

    I’m guessing (but don’t know) that Trump may have lined up a few supporters to fatten up his motorcade, which I would say is improper but also of not much consequence because I don’t think very many people paid attention either positively or negatively.

  224. 224.

    Prometheus Shrugged

    @PaulWartenberg: I have to wonder whether Fani Willis set him up by allowing him to self-report, and will now be able to use that absurd lie in any way.  Bring out a bathroom scale into the courtroom to have him prove it.

    By the way, I am nearly 6’3″ and weigh 210 pounds without clothes. So I’m a reasonably good calibration point.  I would be glad to serve as an expert witness!

  227. 227.

    bupalos

    @Kay: The close suburbs of Cleveland are (relative to suburban national average) shockingly well integrated. I mean, your point is taken, especially as interests that code “white” within those communities are perhaps more heavily weighted in coverage.

    But I gots to speak for my peeps.

  230. 230.

    Brachiator

    @Ken:

    RE: balloon-juice’s reference to the former guy should now be “inmate P01135809,” or maybe just “P01135809.”

    Can someone set it to “867-5309”?

    Donald Donald who can you turn to
    Your empty claims ain’t much to hold on to
    I know you think I’m just your MAGA tool
    But your mug shot and number just ain’t very cool

    Donald don’t lose that number
    You’re gonna do some time
    The election won’t save you
    113 5809
    113 5809

  233. 233.

    Roger Moore

    @Kay: ​
    I think this is a useful concept. If you call someone a fascist, bigot, racist, etc. they’ll derail the conversation into an argument about labeling people and whether you can truly know what’s in someone’s heart. Instead, just talk about the bad things they’ve done and let anyone listening decide for themselves what label to apply. It also gives people who might agree with them on some things an out. If you call Ron DeSantis a fascist, people who agree with him on some stuff are more likely to be offended because they feel like you’re calling them fascists for agreeing with him. Focusing on specific actions lets those people differentiate themselves from him in a way labeling him doesn’t.

  234. 234.

    Gravenstone

    @Scout211: Waiting for the inevitable Chrome extensions that auto-replace his name with his intake number in any applicable text.

  236. 236.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @StringOnAStick:”I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.”

    –James Baldwin

  238. 238.

    Ruckus

    @Kay:

    Absolutely this. Screw them. They wouldn’t know a days work if it fell on them. Real physical work that requires an education to actually do. It doesn’t take a strong back and weak mind it takes skills and a brain. They’ve never done this or they’d know. I learned trigonometry when I was 12 so that I could work. I’m not suggesting that we start at 12, I worked for my dad when not in school. My point is that I retired at 72 yrs old. That’s 60 years of learning and being a productive human being. I can give you a list of tools that I made that made products that most of you would recognize. I machined the cavities to make Barbie Dolls when I was a very young teen. A rather interesting excursion into growing up. 60 yrs of work I put in before retiring 2 yrs ago. Physical work, not always the same thing, I worked 11 yrs in professional sports as well. Interesting life to me, which is I suppose the purpose of living. But I earned money out of that effort and knowledge and saw it all go away in the last major recession we had this century, caused by, if I recall,  conservative policies and effort. I had to work long enough to have a reasonably secure retirement. I do, it’s not all roses and daffodils but I am enjoying the hell out of it. I earned this, by the sweat on my _____ and I’m not giving rethuglicans a second of credit for any of it because they didn’t earn any. They seem to exist to fuck over the rest of the country/world for their own sick enjoyment. And they fail at it on a regular basis. Check out our political history and tell me that I’m wrong. Take DT – please!! He’s the epitome of the entire conservative political party, it’s why he’s popular there. He’s pure shit on 2 overworked/overburdened feet. Never done a thing positive in his entire life. At least I helped make Barbie Dolls.

  240. 240.

    Ruckus

    @West of the Rockies:

    Shitty Fucking Bastard.

    Or.

    Stupid Fucking Bastard

    His weight is not his problem. OK it is but it’s his lying about it, never accepting the truth, which he wouldn’t know if it ran him over with a semi truck that is his major issue. He’s a failure, he stole family money to start his adult life. Family money that his father made as a NY slumlord. And he’s never even lived up to that level of human being.

  242. 242.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I wish she could see some of the people I work with. Some of them need to be able to retire at 55 or even younger, because they’ve used up their body. People like her are coming at it from the perspective of people who have jobs like mine, where we sit at a desk in the office all day. It has nothing to do with life expectancy. As a boyfriend of mine said a long time ago, “It’s not the years, it’s the miles”, and some people put those miles on their body a lot faster than others

    ETA – the full retirement age for SS is already 67! A lot of them don’t know that.

  247. 247.

    Mai Naem mobileI

    I think TFG kicks the bucket before all this is over. They said he’s already raising less money after each indictment. I heard a lawyer talking the other day. He said a decent lawyer(not some highly paid high flying lawyer)would charge $1M for a year of representing somebody on a RICO case. TFG’s paying several lawyers for several people besides himself for multiple cases.  He’s going to run out of money and if the people going on trial before him in GA are convicted his moneystream will dry up even more. If he gets convicted on the first case, his moneystream also dries up more. I don’t think the normal GOP billionaires will help out. Nor the Russians. Maybe the Saudis??

  248. 248.

    Brachiator

    @Kay:

    Nikki Haley tells Bloomberg News “65 is way too low” for the retirement age, advocates attaching it to life expectancy.

    This is not only idiotic, it is meaningless. Democrats should remember this and come back and hammer the hell out of Hayley on this issue.

  250. 250.

    sab

    @Kay: My working class husband (age 71)  cannot even walk around the block anymore because decades of heavy lifting destroyed his spine. He has friends whose knees are shot, or backs, or who have various cancers from exposure to workplace toxins.

  252. 252.

    Tony Jay

    @Calouste:

    We’re still collating names and waiting for the Traitor-Hunter General to get back from his fact finding tour of the Sandwich Islands.

    Come to think of it, he has been a while…

  254. 254.

    tokyokie

    @lowtechcyclist:

    And fuck the motorcade – next time TFG has to be there, they should send a car to meet him at the airport.

    And fuck the private jet, too. Send a couple of deputies in a squad car down Mar-a-Lardo and let him ride back handcuffed in the back seat for the 8 1/2-hour drive.

  256. 256.

    Chris T.

    @Ken:

    I just noticed, looking at the police department seal on the wall, that Trump isn’t as tall as most of the other defendants. Are all three of those women 6’2″?

    Trump is short, fat, and poor. All three of these adjectives are sure to enrage him, which is weird since there’s nothing wrong with any of those three. What’s wrong with Trump is … something else entirely.

  257. 257.

    Chris T.

    @BC in Illinois:

    I lived 20+ years in Maryland. … We sent Governors to prison …

    I was a wee bairn (in about 5th or 6th grade I think) when Governor Marvin Mandel came by for some groundbreaking ceremony for some project (a mall or something) and we were all herded off to listen to some boring speech and watch some old guy poke a shovel into the ground. Some other kids wanted to get autographs (why?) and I had paper so they got my paper and got the autograph. I vaguely remember he had a spiky signature (like Trump’s maybe?).

    A few years later he was in jail…

    Governor Spiro Agnew—whose name is an anagram of Grow A Penis—was before my time, but his name was on the Computer and Space Sciences building at the University of Maryland.

    Yeah, I guess my parents’ generation knew how to pick ’em. 🙃

  258. 258.

    Ruckus

    @tokyokie:

    I don’t disagree with you on this at all, but.

    Didn’t he fly there on his plane? Sure he had a limo and police escort. He is the EX president. And how that happened is a disgraceful story for a later time for this nation, but. Until he is found guilty, as we all hope and whatever else you do, he hasn’t officially disgraced the country. Hopefully that will change soonish.

    Unofficially, what a douchebag.

    All that being said, I likely wouldn’t mind if he did a faceplant walking into court. And i don’t know where you live but if that happened you might be able to hear me laugh, wherever you are at the time. If you don’t drown me out…..

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