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Their freedom requires your slavery.

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We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Prediction: the gop will rethink its strategy of boycotting future committees.

Ron DeSantis, the grand wizard, oops, governor of FL.

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You are here: Home / Politics / domestic terrorists / Tuesday Evening Open Thread: Proud Boy Enrique Tarrio Sentenced

Tuesday Evening Open Thread: Proud Boy Enrique Tarrio Sentenced

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There was considerable speculation that Tarrio’s trial, and then his sentencing, had been delayed because he was a ‘cooperating witness’, providing (or at least promising) information to implicate coconspirators higher up the food chain. Whether that had anything to do with his ‘lighter’ sentence, I certainly don’t know. Per Politico:

Enrique Tarrio, the national leader of the Proud Boys on Jan. 6, 2021, was sentenced Tuesday to 22 years in prison for masterminding a seditious conspiracy aimed at derailing the transfer of power from Donald Trump to Joe Biden.

The sentence, the lengthiest among hundreds arising from the Jan. 6 attack on the Capitol, is a reflection of prosecutors’ evidence that the Proud Boys, helmed by Tarrio, played the most pivotal role in stoking the violent breach of police lines and the Capitol itself…

Hundreds of Proud Boys from across the country, vetted and assembled by Tarrio and a group of top lieutenants, became a vanguard of sorts as a mob of Trump supporters descended on the Capitol, and members of the group were involved in nearly every breach of police lines that day. Dominic Pezzola, a New York Proud Boy who triggered the breach of the Capitol itself by smashing a Senate window with a stolen police shield, was sentenced Friday to 10 years in prison.

Tarrio, unlike most of his co-conspirators, was not at the Capitol on Jan. 6. Upon his arrival in Washington on Jan. 4, 2021, he was arrested for his role in the theft and burning of a Black Lives Matter flag from a church after an earlier pro-Trump march. Tarrio was released the next day and ordered to leave Washington D.C., so he headed with a group of allies to a hotel in Baltimore.

Prosecutors say despite his absence, he remained in touch with his men and monitored their actions on Jan. 6. And after the attack, he repeatedly celebrated the attack, defended his allies and regretted that it didn’t fully derail the transfer of power. He was convicted in May of seditious conspiracy, conspiring to obstruct Congress’ proceedings and destroying government property, among other charges.

Tarrio’s sentence closes a significant chapter in the investigation of the Jan. 6 attack. His 22-year sentence is likely to remain the lengthiest for anyone charged in connection with the attack itself — a mark that exceeds the 18-year sentences handed down to Oath Keepers founder Stewart Rhodes and Tarrio’s ally Ethan Nordean.

Prosecutors portrayed Tarrio as a uniquely influential figure who singularly organized a group of hardened Proud Boys members and aimed them at the Capitol on Jan. 6. They said his sentence had to serve as a deterrent to anyone who might target America’s system of government in the future…

Kelly, a Trump appointee, appeared largely unmoved by Tarrio’s words of contrition. He emphasized that as the attack unfolded, he used his platform to tell his allies “Don’t fucking leave.” And that night, Tarrio privately told a confidant, “Make no mistake. We did this.” Despite Tarrio’s contrition, Kelly again slammed him for comparing Pezzola to George Washington…

The judge added that he doesn’t see evidence, despite Tarrio’s apologies, that he feels remorse for the seditious conspiracy for which he was convicted.

The Proud Boys traced their rise in large part to Trump himself, gaining national notoriety for street brawls against left-wing protesters who they accused of aligning with antifa. The group saw a recruitment surge in September 2020 when Trump told them to “stand back and stand by” on a debate stage — a comment that became a rallying cry for Tarrio and other Proud Boys leaders…

After Trump urged supporters to descend on Washington on Jan. 6 for a last-ditch effort to cling to power, the Proud Boys began mobilizing — and in prosecutors’ view, conspiring to help Trump derail the transfer of power at any cost. Stung by the violence they witnessed in December, the group also said they wanted to ensure they only brought disciplined men who would follow orders, and they established a new chapter — “The Ministry of Self-Defense” — aimed at organizing their Jan. 6 efforts.

Prosecutors also homed in on Tarrio’s receipt of a document from a girlfriend — Eryka Flores — titled “1776 returns,” a blueprint for occupying federal buildings in order to block Congress’ Jan. 6 proceedings. The document described the Capitol as “The Winter Palace,” a reference to the Russian Revolution of 1917. Tarrio, when texting with an exhilarated ally on the evening on Jan. 6, responded simply, “Winter Palace.”

A glass-half-full argument from Shane Burley, “author of “Fascism Today: What It Is and How to End It””, at NBC:

… The convictions of Tarrio, Biggs, Rhodes, Nordean and others have been hailed as justice. And it’s true that efforts to hold far-right leaders accountable are promising signs for anyone concerned about the rise of far-right street violence. But the hefty sentences prosecutors asked for could have, potentially, complicated other efforts to undermine groups like the Proud Boys. Which is why the lighter (but still historically long) sentence for Tarrio and his comrades could be seen as a win, not a loss.

Backing up slightly, the high-profile Oath Keeper and Proud Boys trials elicited complicated reactions from some left-wing advocates. Prosecutors went after leaders like Tarrio — who was not at the Capitol on Jan. 6 — by arguing they used violent rioters as “tools” of a broader conspiracy. Similar approaches have been used against left-wing and antifascist activists in the past, including against demonstrators who took to the streets of D.C. during Trump’s inauguration. Right-wing media figure Andy Ngo also used similar logic in a recent civil case, where he tried to connect large numbers of activists as part of a broader conspiracy and alleged assault. (Ngo ultimately lost his claim, although he still won default judgments against several people named in the case.) For these reasons, left-wing activists are wary of any legal strategy that argues participation in a demonstration makes you an accomplice to violence, even if there isn’t evidence of your direct participation.

Another reason Tarrio’s sentence could be viewed as a win has to do with the far-right’s increasingly caustic dive into conspiracy theories, particularly claims that the entire federal apparatus has been taken over by the shadowy “deep state.” The related belief that Trump is being railroaded by politically motivated and disingenuous attacks has become far too common on the right. And even before law enforcement agencies started hunting down Jan. 6 protesters, the violence of the insurrection was being downplayed by MAGA fanatics. While conspiracy theories have always been endemic to American politics, we’re witnessing the rise of what scholar Michael Barkun calls the “superconspiracy”: a conspiratorial theory of everything. The overwhelming nature of today’s conspiracies can lead to desperation, and desperation can lead to more violence. If the political and legal system is hopelessly corrupt, this thinking goes, the only thing left to do is tear the whole thing down.

Of course, the vast denialism that exists on the far-right makes most attempts at accountability difficult. This is not a community that is likely to learn from or take responsibility for its actions. And there is always the risk that these groups could splinter into even more decentralized, and radical, far-right cells. The Proud Boys may remain a relatively decentralized version of their gang, now leaderless, or it may rebrand.

But there’s no doubt the efforts of the Department of Justice have had an impact. The chances that another Jan. 6 could take place, in full public view of cameras and press, feels more unlikely than previously. Hopefully, the sentences handed down this summer will further deter the next generation of far-right activists — and not just drive them deeper underground.

Thus, historically harsh sentences run the risk of validating and further entrenching this mindset, playing right into the hands of those who wish to paint themselves as the heroic, patriotic victims of a malevolent government…

Of course, the vast denialism that exists on the far-right makes most attempts at accountability difficult. This is not a community that is likely to learn from or take responsibility for its actions. And there is always the risk that these groups could splinter into even more decentralized, and radical, far-right cells. The Proud Boys may remain a relatively decentralized version of their gang, now leaderless, or it may rebrand.

But there’s no doubt the efforts of the Department of Justice have had an impact. The chances that another Jan. 6 could take place, in full public view of cameras and press, feels more unlikely than previously. Hopefully, the sentences handed down this summer will further deter the next generation of far-right activists — and not just drive them deeper underground.

Here’s hoping Roger Stone is having a very bad evening, the first in a series of same:

Reader Interactions

157Comments

  2. 2.

    Spider-Dan

    My only regret is that it’s Enrique Tarrio up there taking the longest sentence as the “head of the Proud Boys” instead of the actual founder, Gavin McInnes.

  3. 3.

    Mike in Pasadena

    Great! Now all we have to do is keep electing Democratic presidents for the the next five terms so he doesn’t get a pardon. Now, on to the Ketchup Flinger, Great Orange Whale, TFG, Agent Orange, or Fat Fucker From Florida.

  6. 6.

    Anne Laurie

    @Spider-Dan: My only regret is that it’s Enrique Tarrio up there taking the longest sentence as the “head of the Proud Boys” instead of the actual founder, Gavin McInnes.

    Didn’t McInnes bolt for his home land, Canada?

  7. 7.

    bbleh

    Movements need leaders, and by all accounts Tarrio had leadership talent.  Take out the leaders and you cripple the movement.  They can believe that Democrats are alien lizard-people who want to harvest their brains for adrenochrome, but without leaders they’re just a bunch of gormless fools yelling at each other in an echo chamber.

    15-17-18-22 years is a l-o-n-g time, even with the standard 15% Air Fed discount.  This is unreservedly a good thing.

    @Mike in Pasadena: surely there is a website somewhere devoted to cataloging all the nicknames?  It must be vast by now.

  10. 10.

    Jay

    @Anne Laurie:

    Nope, still in the US on a Green Card.

    He can’t come back to Canada with out facing charges as “The Proud Boys” are a Designated Terrorist Organization in Canada.

  11. 11.

    Scout211

    I was following the BBC News live feed.  They had reporters in the courtroom.

    The theory that the delay of his sentencing for several days was for Tarrio to provide evidence against co-conspirators (Roger Stone, please!) makes sense.  Here are two posts from the BBC reporter:

    Tarrio’s lawyers say they will appeal 22 year sentence
    Tarrio’s lawyers are now speaking outside of the Washington DC courthouse and have told media they will “definitely appeal”.

    They say they won’t comment on how the judge determined the 22 year sentence for the former Proud Boys leader.

    Earlier in the day, this:

    After an hour and a half, Judge Timothy Kelly and lawyers for both sides have worked through the sentencing guidelines.

    By the judge’s calculation the guidelines call for a sentence of somewhere between 324 to 405 months.
    That is 27 to nearly 34 years.

    Now we’re hearing from the prosecutors, who in court documents have asked for a sentence of 33 years in prison.

  15. 15.

    bbleh

    @MazeDancer: given the rumors about his having been a cooperating witness, one wonders how much contact he will have with the general population.  Might not be any opportunity to join anything.

  16. 16.

    SpaceUnit

    Apparently these dudes thought Fuck Around & Find Out was a game show where they could go to wear silly costumes and win fabulous prizes.

    Guess they found out otherwise.

  17. 17.

    Jay

    @schrodingers_cat:

    The Fed’s were too busy targeting Environmentalists, Antifa and Human Rights/Social Justice activists to bother investigating “The Rise of The Nazi’s, Sequel Part III”.

  19. 19.

    karen marie

    Here I was feeling good about Tarrio’s sentence and you HAD TO REMIND ME that Roger Stone is still walking around on the streets.

  21. 21.

    Geminid

    @Spider-Dan: MacInnes renounced his role in the Proud Boys in 2018. This probably was not caused by a change in political views. MacInnes had made a pile of money from a media site and he could see the lawsuits coming.

    The previous year, in the runup to the Unite the Right Rally in Charlottesville, MacInnes made a point of publically warning Proud Boys not to participate in the rally. I think they stayed away for the most part.

    The national leadership of the Pagans’ motorcycle gang went further. “They said they’d take our Colors if we attended,” the local chapter head explained. He and some of his members had provided “security” at one of the organizer’s press events. That was a weird scene: a Tucker Carlson clone with 7 guys who looked like a Doobie Brothers roadie reunion.

    As with MacIinnes,  the Pagans’ were motivated by self-interest. They’d heard about the neo-Nazis the organizer had invited. The Pagans’ are businessmen, albeit illegal ones, and they knew that Nazis were bad for their business.

  23. 23.

    Elie said

    @MazeDancer:

    But he is so pretty!  A shame to waste those looks.  I’d like some of the Black gangs to show him around and give him a special “welcome”

  24. 24.

    smith

    @Geminid: The Pagans’ are businessmen, albeit illegal ones, and they know Nazis are bad for their business.

    Wish our billionaire mobster-oligarchs were so astute.

  26. 26.

    Jay

    @Geminid:

    Gavin McInnes founded the group and served as its leader.[80][81] After the designation of a number of Proud Boys members as extremists with ties to white nationalism,[55] McInnes said that his lawyers had advised him that quitting might help the nine Proud Boys members being prosecuted for the incidents in October.[clarification needed] During the announcement he defended the group, attacked the reporting about it, said white nationalists do not exist, and at times he said things that made it appear he was not quitting, such as “this is 100% a legal gesture, and it is 100% about alleviating sentencing, [it was a] stepping down gesture, in quotation marks.”[82][83]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proud_Boys

  27. 27.

    NobodySpecial

    Hopefully if these jokers ever see the outside of a cell they’re subjected to the same anti-gang communication legislation that everyone else is. Keep them isolated from each other and unable to plot more with a nice helping of additional jail time if they violate it.

  28. 28.

    Geminid

    @Jay: “100% about about alleviating sentences?” That self-serving account doesn’t make me believe that MacInnes was not concerned about his personal fortune and his need to protect it.

  29. 29.

    Shalimar

    @SpaceUnit: There is a picture of a rally with Pezzola in the forefront wearing a shirt with “FOFO” on the front.  Cos-playing is not fun in prison.

  33. 33.

    Elie said

    @smith:

    Im not laughing. Rape is not funny but neither is White supremacy promoted by a non white man who openly promoted violence and lawlesness.

  35. 35.

    SpaceUnit

    @Shalimar:

    I was just thinking that FAFO could actually be a pretty good game show.  Contestant would spin a wheel and get offered cash prizes to poke a bear with a stick or jam a fork into an electrical outlet, etc.

    Entertainment for our stupid times.

  38. 38.

    Parfigliano

    This white supremacist wanna be is going to shit itself first time dealing with a real white supremacist AB type in prison.

  40. 40.

    Elie said

    @Geminid:

    Im sorry you interpret my comment that way. His punishment is the imprisonment for actions he took as a White supremacist.  Not retribution by Black inmates

  44. 44.

    Jackie

    @Jay: Hmph. Nicolle Wallace did an entire segment with guest speakers stating the PBS were basically a street gang until Tarrio took over and shifted the PBs to a political gang.

    I stand corrected. 😕

  45. 45.

    MisterDancer

    @Elie said: to quote yourself:

    I’d like some of the Black gangs to show him around and give him a special “welcome”

    Maybe just stop and acknowledge this is way off base, and this fora ain’t the space for none of this shit you wrote.

  46. 46.

    Elie said

    I apologize for offending those appropriately offended by rape.  That said my feelings about this guy are deep and bitter.  I do not wish him well.  May he suffer from the damage and violence he caused to Black and Brown people

  47. 47.

    Anne Laurie

    @schrodingers_cat: I can’t believe that he founded the Proud Boys when he was here on a green card. I mean people have been deported for far less. How did he get away with it?

    Same as it ever was:  (Monied) White Male Privilege.

    What’s ‘terrorism’ when people of color (especially poor PoC) do it, is ‘shenanigans’ or ‘misplaced enthusiasm’ when it’s a rich white dude, according to high-priced lawyers and the FTFNYTimes.

  48. 48.

    Jackie

    @Elie said: Have you seen him minus baseball cap and shades?

    ETA: What’s with all the prison gang rapes today?  Come on guys, we’re BETTER THAN THIS.

  50. 50.

    Alison Rose

    @Elie said:

    That said my feelings about this guy are deep and bitter.  I do not wish him well.

    As though the rest of us are weeping for his struggle and frantically typing out instructions for a candlelight vigil. You’re not a lone wolf. We all hate the schmuck. The difference is most of us realize that wishing the worst form of violence on someone would make us little better than him.

    The apology is appreciated. Take a moment to consider why you needed to make it.

  56. 56.

    Jay

    @kalakal:

    He has money, lots of it, lawyers, competent ones, and is married to a “Merkan who claims to be a “Democrat”.

    He claims he “bailed” on the Proud Boys, ( just when they were finally start to attract Law Enforcement attention).

  58. 58.

    HumboldtBlue

    But there’s no doubt the efforts of the Department of Justice have had an impact. The chances that another Jan. 6 could take place, in full public view of cameras and press, feels more unlikely than previously. Hopefully, the sentences handed down this summer will further deter the next generation of far-right activists — and not just drive them deeper underground.

    We may never have answers to what information Federal law enforcement gathered ahead of the insurrection that was not acted on. The Secret Service stinks of involvement, as well as the FBI.

  59. 59.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Geminid: Just reading N. K. Jemisin’s The World We Make (the sequel to The City We Became) and got to the bit with the thinly disguised Gavin McInnes character getting his magical comeuppance. I lol’d.

  61. 61.

    Scout211

    O/T, but tomorrow Netflix releases the documentary on the Boy Scouts. Scouts Honor: The Secret Files of the Boy Scouts of America | Official Trailer | Netflix

    Review in the San Francisco Chronicle 

    While you may be aware that the Boy Scouts have a sexual abuse problem, the Netflix documentary “Scout’s Honor: The Secret Files of the Boy Scouts of America” reveals the terrible, hypocritical extent of it.

    The film points out that to protect its more than century-old reputation as a molder of virtuous young males, the organization kept massive internal records of molestations by adult volunteers exclusively to itself. Information was not shared with parents, authorities or anyone outside the lucrative operation until recently. In 2020, soon after the so-called Red Flag List, also known as “perversion files,” was finally made public, the Boy Scouts of America filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. That was mainly to manage over 82,000 abuse claims, the largest number against any U.S. organization, including the Catholic Church.

    This is hardly some dry, legal exposé, though. Brian Knappenberger, who’s directed such Netflix docuseries as “The Trials of Gabriel Fernandez,” addresses the subject with fact-based outrage, sometimes ironic detail and devastating testimony from now middle-aged, still traumatized men. It’s presented as tastefully as such sordid subject matter can be, without shying away from necessary graphic descriptions of assault and manipulation.

  62. 62.

    Adam L Silverman

    @Anne Laurie: No he lives in NY state. Outside the city with his American wife and their kids. He broadcasts from a home studio. Whey he hasn’t been deported given the threat he poses and the violence he’s incited, his residency should have been terminated and he should have been sent back to Canada years ago.

  63. 63.

    Jackie

    Is it time to start a betting pool on when McKevin loses his Speakership?

    Rep. Matt Gaetz (R-Fla.) on Tuesday forecast upcoming moves to force House votes on impeachment, while sending a warning shot to Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.).

    The firebrand Republican’s remarks come as McCarthy has met resistance from moderate House Republicans to potentially opening an impeachment inquiry into President Biden over issues related to his family’s foreign business dealings when he was vice president.

    “I worked very hard in January to develop a toolkit for House Republicans to use in a productive and positive way. I don’t believe we’ve used those tools as effectively as we should have,” Gaetz told conservative radio hostTodd Starnes, alluding to the negotiations that took place during the historic 15-ballot election to make McCarthy Speaker.

    Gaetz said that when the House returns to Washington next week, Republicans have to “seize the initiative.”

    “That means forcing votes on impeachment. And if Speaker McCarthy stands in our way, he may not have the job long,” Gaetz said.

    https://thehill.com/homenews/house/4188271-gaetz-advocates-forcing-impeachment-votes-in-warning-to-mccarthy/

  64. 64.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Jay: The police (in this case, the FBI) are always simpatico to civilian authoritarians.  They can relate to them on a visceral level.

  65. 65.

    dmsilev

    Today in Out Of Context Quotes:

    “Only Joe knew I was getting that emu,” Oleniksaid. “It was a surprise to my wife when I showed up with it.”

    ‘Honey, I’m home! And I have a surprise!’

    (context)

  68. 68.

    eversor

    Gavin is rich and also bolted the PBs after Charlotesville and that mess when he realized it flew out of his control.  He also founded some media companies.

    As the saying goes these guys aren’t that bright and shit got out of hand.  Which is sort of funny as none of these idiots were ever in control of anything.  Gavin just knew when to book it.

  69. 69.

    kalakal

    Let us consider for a moment the creature Tarrio has just given up 22 years of his life for. This is a brilliant description* of his God Emperor Tang

    I just can’t get my head around the number of people willing to sacrifice themselves for a man anyone with a shred of decency wouldn’t piss on if he was on fire

    * substitute British for any nationality you please

  70. 70.

    Bill Arnold

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    nitter.net links NEVER load for me.

    They never load for me on this machine using a VPN (European endpoint).
    I have to edit the links from nitter.net to twitter.com (and in a browser which is logged into a twitter account to see context and replies).

  71. 71.

    Geminid

    @Jackie: I doubt that Gaetz will back up his big talk about removing McCarthy from the Speaker’s Chair. But if he does, Gaetz could end up with a Speaker very different from what he has in mind.

  73. 73.

    p.a.

    @kalakal: tRump was a human shitstain when he was nominally a Democrat, an Independent, and unaffiliated.

    Only Republicans are degenerate enough to put him in a position of authority over, well, anything.

  75. 75.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Geminid: Way OT (but this thread needs it) – to my surprise, Gabe Amo appears to have won the RI CD-1 Dem primary, putting him in very strong position to become RI’s first Black congressman (he is the son of Ghanaian and Liberian immigrants.)

  79. 79.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @p.a.: He’s been a human shitstain virtually from birth.  He was a problem child in elementary school, and his parents put him in a cosplay military academy hoping it would straighten him out.  It didn’t.

  81. 81.

    Ken

    @Scout211: the Boy Scouts of America filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

    This had impacts far beyond the Scouts, I think I can say as a (former) trustee of an affected organization. Every conference hotel, community center, church, VFW hall, etc. that ever hosted or rented space to Boy Scout meetings — no matter what the scale — has had to review potential liability.

  83. 83.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Jackie: An off-year special election primary on the day after Labor Day, when it was 90 degrees and sunny and state beaches no longer charge admission, meant really low turnout.

    In fact, I went to the beach too – water was nice, but surf was strong.

  87. 87.

    Kelly

    A related Oregon conviction back in July. Proud Boy brawler Tusitala “Tiny” Toese was sentenced to 95 for his part in a 2021 Portland brawl. Portland PD was kinda casual about rounding up Proud Boys rioting in their jurisdiction.

  92. 92.

    wjca

    @Jay:  Nope, still in the US on a Green Card.

    He can’t come back to Canada with out facing charges as “The Proud Boys” are a Designated Terrorist Organization in Canada.

    Perhaps the US could just declare him persona non grata and send him packing.  Or Canada could ask for extradition . . . which we wouldn’t resist.

  93. 93.

    Spider-Dan

    @Geminid: Yes, I’m aware that McInnes has publicly disavowed all responsibility for the Proud Boys, Whom He Does Not Support.

    He founded them.
    He gave them their mission statement.
    He pointed them in the direction of fascism, pushed them down the hill, and walked away with a pile of cash.

    In a better world, he’d be wearing an orange jumpsuit, too.

  96. 96.

    JaySinWA

    Another day another Georgia RICO. A Stop Cop City RICO case against protestors was filed today. It would be interesting to compare and contrast the quality of this case vrs the election interference case. This seems largely political and vindictive. There’s  a weird attempt to paint the protestors as Anarchists by using anodyne statements and beliefs they have in common.

    “Each individual charged in this indictment knowingly joined the conspiracy in an attempt to prevent the training center from being built. That conspiracy contained a common purpose to commit two or more acts of racketeering activity in Fulton County, Georgia, elsewhere in the State of Georgia, and in other states,” prosecutors say in the indictment.

    They say ideas of “collectivism, mutualism/mutual aid, and social solidarity” are promoted by anarchists, such as the Defend the Atlanta Forest movement.

    https://www.courthousenews.com/activists-face-rico-charges-over-cop-city-protest/

     

    The charges were filed last week, according to online court records. The list of defendants suggests that the case implicates people who have already been arrested on tenuous evidence, like a legal observer who was jailed while monitoring protests, activists who ran a bail fund for other defendants, and a trio of activists arrested while handing out fliers with the name of a cop who killed a fellow protester.

    https://www.thedailybeast.com/stop-cop-city-activists-hit-with-rico-charges-by-same-georgia-grand-jury-that-indicted-trump

  98. 98.

    Chris

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    @Jay: The police (in this case, the FBI) are always simpatico to civilian authoritarians.  They can relate to them on a visceral level.

    To the cops, militias are useful unofficial deputies that they can always call on for reinforcements and/or whenever there’s stuff to be done that they don’t want to do themselves.

    To the militias, cops are the Commissioner Gordon type well-meaning-but-hampered-by-red-tape-and-politics Friends On The Force in the superhero movie that they think their life is.

    They complete each other.

  101. 101.

    JaySinWA

    @JaySinWA:

    The Atlanta Journal Constitution weighs in and includes a link to the indictment.

    At least six pages of the indictment are used to define “anarchist” in the group’s context.
    “As the indictment asserts, members of Defend the Atlanta Forest subscribe to a philosophy of anarchy. They hold a core belief that society should abolish police, government and private business and as further alleged, they’re willing to bring about such changes ‘by any means necessary,’” Carr said.

    https://www.ajc.com/news/crime/breaking-more-than-60-training-center-activists-named-in-rico-indictment/DQ6B6GHTAJAJRH4SLGIIBAMXR4/

  104. 104.

    Jay

    @Danielx:

    The Proud Boy’s wern’t/arn’t a money making grift. They are a hate group populated by small penis’s.

    Gavin bailed when it looked like the groups’s actions would cost him “His” money and maybe jail time.

    Most of the “Proud Boy’s” are exactly who you think they are, violent incel neckbeard losers living in their Momma’s basement.

  105. 105.

    Jackie

    @Lyrebird: Andrew Weissmann agrees with you:

    Andrew Weissmann, the former lead prosecutor for Robert Mueller’s special counsel team, warned that if Proud Boys and Oath Keeper leaders are getting 15 to 22 years in prison, then the head of the conspiracy is likely to get that much too.

    snip

    “Now, imagine having a conversation with your client, Donald Trump,” Weissmann told MSNBC’s Lawrence O’Donnell. “That’s somebody who is the leader, for whom all of this was taking place. Who was also not personally present at the Capitol, although he wanted to be at the Capitol. And I think that the pressure that the judges will feel, who have seen so many people go to jail, rightly for their participation on Jan. 6th, the idea that Donald Trump wouldn’t do at least as much time as the leaders of the Oath Keepers and the Proud Boys, to me, seems unimaginable. Because that’s what the law would require.”

    https://www.rawstory.com/trump-jail-possibilities-prosecutor-counsel/

     

  106. 106.

    Lyrebird

    @Jackie: Thanks!  I reckon agreeing with A. Weissman counts as putting me in good company.

    Here’s hoping the ringleader will actually see justice…

  107. 107.

    Calouste

    @wjca: persona non grata is to get rid of foreigners who have diplomatic immunity. As he doesn’t have that, the US can just arrest and try him.

  109. 109.

    wjca

    @Calouste:

    my mistake.  I was searching for “deport” and the word just wouldn’t come.  Sigh

     

    EDT As for trying him, why not share the wealth.  Let the Canadians join in.

  110. 110.

    Spider-Dan

    @Jay:

    The Proud Boy’s wern’t/arn’t a money making grift. They are a hate group populated by small penis’s.

    Porque no los dos?  McInnes certainly made a lot of money from his podcast & TV show radicalizing young men.  The fact that he was slippery enough to bail with his money before calls to action turned into plans for action does not mean that he doesn’t believe in the cause, nor does it mean that he wasn’t doing it for the money.  They are not mutually exclusive outcomes.

  111. 111.

    Chris

    @Spider-Dan:

    Honestly, these days it’s hard to imagine any conservative movement not being simultaneously a hate group and a grift.  I’m struggling to remember the last conservative politician of any note who wasn’t also running a pathologically corrupt shit-show, beginning of course with Donny himself.

  112. 112.

    Mike in NC

    To quote a movie I can’t recall the exact name of, Tarrio will be “passed around like a pack of Kools” while in the joint.

  113. 113.

    Jay

    @Spider-Dan:

    McInnes made his money from Vice Media when it was a breaking new model media.

    He tried to monetize his “Fight Club for People who have never seen Fight Club or don’t have a clue about what its about” vanity/racist projects, but,…..

    His vanity projects earned him a couple hundred thou a year, compared to the millions he made at Vice and selling Vice.

    He couldn’t earn enough at his vanity projects post Vice to keep the lights on.

  119. 119.

    Citizen Alan

    @MazeDancer: There is something weirdly perverse about the longest J6 sentence so far going to the POC Proud Boy. I wonder if Enrique has any thoughts to share on racial disparities in sentencing.

  120. 120.

    Jay

    @Citizen Alan:

    Enrique got the longest sentence so far, because he not only was a key plotter, a key recruiter, but also, when it was going down, he acted as the “Field Commander” coordinating actions on the ground remotely.

  121. 121.

    Alison Rose

    @Jay: Also, there isn’t that dramatic of a disparity. Ethan Nordean got 18 years. That’s only 4 years’ difference. I think Rhodes got the same. If everyone else thus far had gotten like 5-10 years and Tarrio got life, sure, that might look odd.

  123. 123.

    ArchTeryx

    @Alison Rose: All the rape jokes are not only unfunny but generally are just plain scummy. Me, I’d settle on some of that old ultraviolence myself. Rape is unnecessary and a bad thing no matter who is on the receiving end.

  124. 124.

    TS

    @kalakal: This is so spot on – exactly who the man is – and to add to all that was said, the author finished with

    He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart. In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws – he would make a Trump.

    And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish: ‘My God… what… have… I… created?’ If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.

  127. 127.

    Ruckus

    @Elie said:

    Just checking in.

    You are so wrong. And you are right.

    These are bad people, they don’t mind if you die, as long as they benefit.

    But we absolutely can not in any way be even close to that bad, not within a million miles close.

    We have to be fucking better. HAVE TO BE BETTER. Otherwise life never changes, it never gets better.

    So I’m going to ask, what the hell is human life for, why do we exist? Why can we make up our minds to be fucking better? Why can we make up our minds to be the same as them, or worse? Humanity, for the entire length of it’s existence has often been mostly about survival. Not being better, not being just a part of the 7 billion of us, but of making a mark so that we will be remembered as tough, strong, and shitty. That is what people like SFB think. Not everyone is smart, some are smart asses, some are mistaken that they can just take what they want instead of earning anything. That’s humanity, it varies, from pure shit to pretty good. And we all stop breathing at some point. We’ve made up stories about how great it is after and told them for eons about how we all need to be better and really what has that got us? I still hear sirens regularly, which is someone going to some shitty outcome that has happened to someone or many people. We are still human, we range as far different as it is possible to be and still be said to be human. Some will never learn, some will never care and some, maybe at least a few can be better. I say be fucking better, not just for you but for all of us. If humanity ever even came close to that (and it is very, very unlikely) would it just be boring? I seriously doubt it.

    My point is we can’t be better if we don’t fucking try.

  128. 128.

    Ruckus

    @TS:

    It’s the last line

    If being a twat was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set.

    Now that is priceless. A man after my own heart, he speaks the truth…..

  129. 129.

    suffragette city

    Remind me which Congress people were tweeting and talking  1776

    And then let me know when those traitors are given prison sentences

  130. 130.

    Patricia Kayden

    Roger Stone’s comment is chilling to say the least. He needs to be tried as a co-conspirators with the rest of the scum who tried to stage a coup.

  131. 131.

    Spider-Dan

    @Jay: ​
      Did McInnes make lots of money when he was forced out of Vice Media? Sure. But it’s not like he was done making money. Did the Proud Boys and associated grifts make him less money than he made with Vice? Again, sure. But that doesn’t mean he wasn’t trying to make money with them; he just wasn’t as successful as he hoped.

  132. 132.

    Jay

    @Spider-Dan:

    McInnes made $175m+ from the sale of Vice. Eventually $1.2m a year while he worked at Vice.

    He made more money, a couple hundred thou a year from various media appearances, film shoots, magazine articles etc than his “you tube”, (banned from) online “TV” channel, which he had to shut down because he couldn’t afford to pay talent or to buy bandwidth.

    Yeah, he suckered a lot of young white male morons into the alt Reich, but he’s no Jordan Peterson. Right now, in the alt Reich community, he is a nobody, a has been, a FED.

  133. 133.

    Tony Jay

    @kalakal:

    I enjoyed that very, very much. Nice to see ‘twat’ used in its correct context and with just the right amount of propulsive back-swing.

  134. 134.

    prostratedragon

    kalakal@69: “You don’t need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.”
    Lord, yes!! The smallest drop and its infinite subdivisions all perfectly map the hideousness of the whole. Hard to know what to do with 70 million people saying, “Yeah, sign me up!”

  135. 135.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Mike in NC: ​
     

    To quote a movie I can’t recall the exact name of, Tarrio will be “passed around like a pack of Kools” while in the joint.

    Enough of the prison rape references, dammit. Removal of one’s freedom for a good long stretch of time suffices as punishment, even for scum like Tarrio.

  136. 136.

    Barry

    @schrodingers_cat: “I can’t believe that he founded the Proud Boys when he was here on a green card. I mean people have been deported for far less. How did he get away with it?”

     

    The arrogance of the right.  Think of the KKK.

  138. 138.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Ruckus: The thing is being a twat IS a TV show. In fact it’s many many TV shows – virtually the entire universe of reality TV from the first MTV’s Real World on is based on people being twats.

  139. 139.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: Speaking of armed friendlies, I ran across some video* of Ukrainian “Eco-Platform” fighters attacking Russians in a trench. Polish military commentator Visegrad 24 noted that Eco-Platform is a green anarchist group, and that “all types of ideological groups have united under the Russian Army to fight Russia.”

    * Found at @visegrad24

  140. 140.

    Ramalama

    @Citizen Alan: I posted this link years ago but think it might be a good time to revisit. This American Life did a whole show on the Proud Boy movement including talking to a black guy – Dante Nero – who was an early Proud Boy, advising guys to become voluntarily celibate in order to cultivate better relationships with women. (Mostly) white dudes took this and took off with it, perverting it with their Axe-body-toxicity.

    https://www.thisamericanlife.org/626/white-haze

  142. 142.

    Subsole

    @kalakal:

    It gets even more breathtaking when you realize the guy they’d die for would watch them choke to death and laugh the whole while.

  143. 143.

    Tony Jay

    @Subsole:

    And they’d applaud his ‘toughness’ while he did it.

    The Hard-Right’s pathological need to never admit they’re wrong about absolutely everything will be the slow, painful death of them  – and I for one am here on the couch with a buffet spread of cheeses and dips for it.

  144. 144.

    Kay

    I think US prison  sentences are too long- including this one- I don’t think there’s a difference in deterrent value btw 10 years and 20 years – but I don’t care in the case of Proud Boys and other Republicans because they never care about it until their cowardly asses were on the line and they have exploited crime fear mongering my entire life. So…enjoy your 2 decades in prison, chump. You sacrificed your freedom for a sleazy NYC real estate family.

    It sort of sucks we have to pay 60k a year to feed and house him. On that note, why don’t any of these people have jobs? Maybe they could learn some useful skill in prison and become productive members of society for at least a couple of years on the outside.

  145. 145.

    Kay

    They like play acting as Manly Men. Maybe teach them bricklaying or pipe fitting in prison – it wil cure them of romanticizing manual labor when they do some.

  146. 146.

    Chris

    @Kay:

    As I understand it, all the studying that’s been done on this says it’s not the harshness of the sentence but the certainty of it that’s an effective deterrent.  If people are pretty sure they’ll get caught and go to prison, the number of people willing to risk it drops drastically.  If not…

    This goes double for people like the Proud Boys, who have spent their lifetime in the certainty that they won’t be caught or go to prison because the cops and prosecutors all love them.

  147. 147.

    Geminid

    The Blue Virginia blog reportrd that Democrat Missy Cotter Smasol has announced a campaign for the 2nd Congressional District seat held by Republican Jen Kiggans. Ms. Kiggans defeated Elaine Luria in last yer’s midterms. Former Rep. Luria has not said if she will seek a rematch with Kiggans.

    Smasol claimed endorsements from 20 current and former elected Democrats including State Senator L. Louise Lucas and Delegate Jay Jones.

    Like Luria and Kiggans, Smasol is a retired Navy officer. The Virginia Beach-based 2nd CD is home to a lot of active duty and retired Navy personel plus a lot of civilian defense workers, and has been represented by Navy veterans since at least 2016.

  148. 148.

    Kay

    @Chris:

    Yup. I do think there’s a recidivism risk with Proud Boys however because they have nothing else – membership in this pathetic group of Trump-worshipping losers is their life – but I think a decade without the other Proud Boys might be enough to temper some of that. The longer a parolee is out without a re-arrest the lower the recidivism risk and there are hundreds of these people so we’ll find out if they reoffend. They’re giant, coddled whiny babies so I suspect they’ll stay out of trouble after they do their time.

    They will need vocational training though. They don’t seem to have had normal adult development, where one gets a job, etc. – but I’m in favor of educational/vocational programs for prisoners and they’re not so it’s not my problem.

  151. 151.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Chris: Another thing that people should realize (and I say this a person who thinks that we over sentence and over incarcerate) is that fewer than 12% of sentences in federal courts are for longer than 10 years.  Also, nearly half have a downward departure from the sentencing guidelines.  Source (pdf).

  152. 152.

    Chris

    @Kay:

    Maybe.

    In general, I do think deterrence works on right-wing terrorism better than it would on some other forms of violence, because so much of the whole premise of right-wing terrorism is the notion that you’ll never experience consequences for it – as soon as consequences rear their heads, they scatter, as we’ve been seeing.  Lots of people would not have participated in 1/6 if they’d had any idea this could be the result.  As you say, giant coddled whiny babies.

    In this specific case, I’m not very optimistic.  A glance through Tarrio’s Wikipedia profile this morning shows he’s already been arrested twice in his younger years, once for theft and a few years later for fraud, so he’s very much a repeat offender.  He seems to be one of that category of petty criminals who start off as ordinary crooks and eventually drift into far-right circles, presumably because the opportunities for grift are enormous and at the same time you suddenly get a lot of friends in “respectable” society.  (Again, much like Donny himself).

    Agree 100% on the need for more job training and the like for people while they’re in prison.

  154. 154.

    No One You Know

    @Jay: Yes. The scary thing is the suspected involvement of friendly local police to assist in the random selection of targets. Stochastic terror in uniform. I was watching a situation in my state but haven’t seen an outcome yet. I don’t even know what to hope for.

  155. 155.

    Kosh III

    “.  I’m struggling to remember the last conservative politician of any note who wasn’t also running a pathologically corrupt shit-show,”

    Sen. Dirksen, Sen. Margaret Chase Smith, President Eisenhower?

  157. 157.

    Chris

    @Kosh III:

    It’s getting into NoTrueScotsman territory, but I’m not even sure.  As near as I can tell, the reason the Republican Party used to be better and be able to throw up reasonable politicians like those ones isn’t that conservatism used to be more clean and virtuous, it’s simply that the Republican Party used to be less conservative.  Liberal-to-moderate Republicans were still a big deal in the fifties, else Eisenhower wouldn’t have gotten elected.

    The real conservatives from that day and age, the ones closest to today’s GQP, were Southern Democrats, and sure enough, those guys were a horror show when it came to corruption.

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