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You are here: Home / Economics / C.R.E.A.M. / Late Night Open Thread: If Our Major Media Had More Power, We’d Be Doomed

Late Night Open Thread: If Our Major Media Had More Power, We’d Be Doomed

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Sometimes I’m genuinely grateful that most voters get their info from social media and ‘vibes’.


Our marsupial major media!

Another WH reporter lamented Trump’s loss in 2020. Said they don’t have as many contacts within the Biden Administration and it’ll hurt them with scoops.

Four years ago at the annual UTA gala in DC before the WH Correspondents Dinner, who was the person having the greatest time? Sean Spicer. Same man whose job was to lie on behalf of Trump, gaslight the world, and spur on hate against the press.

About two years ago was told by a TV producer they were looking for a conservative to fill out a roundtable political show. The bar was the following: they had to accept the 2020 election results & not be openly white supremacist. That’s it. Even with that low bar…it was tough.

All of this is to say the current media & reporting model is not built for this moment where one political party, the GOP, has become a radicalized authoritarian force beholden to minority rule. The old playbook won’t work. You need to be agile & adapt. 8 years on, still failing.

Reader Interactions

136Comments

  1. 1.

    Old School

    About two years ago was told by a TV producer they were looking for a conservative to fill out a roundtable political show. The bar was the following: they had to accept the 2020 election results & not be openly white supremacist.

    Genuinely curious if they filled that spot.

  2. 2.

    mvr

    I am ambivalent about Will Stancil. Sometimes he says smart stuff. Sometimes he feeds the trolls. Can anyone advise?

  3. 3.

    RaflW

    Even Adam Kinzinger has Politico’s number.

    @AdamKinzinger

    Same day she is almost arrested ⁦@politico⁩ runs this.

    Side note: Boebert is a politico “unnamed source” snitch. This article proves it, she’s getting the kind treatment. Facts

  4. 4.

    mvr

    @mvr: Also too, I seem to have claimed the coveted #2 commentator spot. (Not bragging.) Would not want to waste it so please give your advice.

  8. 8.

    John Revolta

    I don’t see how y’all can be complaining about the news coverage in the media. Maybe you haven’t seen THIS

    Love pop music? Largest US newspaper chain is hiring Taylor Swift and Beyoncé Knowles-Carter writers
    LOS ANGELES (AP) — This week the United States’ biggest newspaper chain posted to its site two unusual job listings: a Taylor Swift reporter and a Beyoncé Knowles-Carterreporter.

    Gannett, which owns more than 200 daily papers, will employ these new hires through USA Today and The Tennessean, the company’s Nashville-based newspaper. The chain is looking for “modern storytellers” adept in print, audio and visual journalism, said Michael Anastasi, the Tennessean’s editor and Gannett’s vice president for local news.

    “Seeing both the facts and the fury, the Taylor Swift reporter will identify why the pop star’s influence only expands, what her fanbase stands for in pop culture, and the effect she has across the music and business worlds,” the company said in its job description.

    Similarly, the company wants a journalist who can capture Beyoncé Knowles-Carter’s effect on society and the industries in which she operates.

    https://apnews.com/article/taylor-swift-beyonce-gannett-music-journalism-jobs-e345985bf3e863ca371258ad7d790198

  10. 10.

    piratedan

    @mvr:  He mostly plays nice for “our team” but he’s not above lapsing into the “do something” demographic in punditry depending upon the issue.  The Dem “self-critique” thing seems like he’s tied to the cult of the savvy, but it’s important to not get high on our own supply, so it never hurts to being open to being better… doesn’t mean he’s always right.  Sometimes i think he rolls that out to still sit at the cool kids pundit table and sometimes I believe its sincere.

  12. 12.

    Ruckus

    Will Stancil.

    They don’t throw junk at the wall, they throw shit at the wall and wait to see what it smells like, then they tell us how bad it is.

    Which is so helpful to any one over 4 yrs old.

  17. 17.

    piratedan

    @mvr: I take him at face value when it seems like straight reporting, when he wobbles into opinion, I tend to take his end result with a grain of salt…. a lot of these guys seem to operate in the 2+2=potato methodology, it’s like they can state the evidence of A and B, but for some reason about 20% of the time keep coming up with the result that it’s bad for Joe Biden…..

  20. 20.

    Villago Delenda Est

    @Yutsano: Too busy with other things, like Oozy Ghouliani setting himself up for even more legal action by attacking the two Georgia election workers he libeled.  Their current suit against him has already been judged in their favor, and the courtroom action is going to be about setting damages.

  22. 22.

    piratedan

    @Yutsano: it’s not really that important, he’s leaving public service like he entered it, as a complete chickenshit who believes he’s worthy of respect without doing any heavy lifting that’s required to earn it.

    to paraphrase efg… fuck that guy.

  24. 24.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @eclare:

    It was mentioned and commented on by a few people earlier today (well, Wednesday), but I can’t remember which thread. Very sad news.

  28. 28.

    Ruckus

    @Alison Rose:

    It is not all that uncommon in Alaska that small planes crash. The cold, that most everything has to be flown in and in smallish airplanes. Remember they have piston engines, it’s as I said COLD, and mechanical things give up more often.

    I’ve been rather far above the Arctic Circle – in winter, when I was in the navy. The water temp was 28 degrees and the air temp colder. I had a bottom bunk, next to the hull of the ship and the water line was above me, so it was a tad cold if you decided to touch the hull. Good times.

  29. 29.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Alison Rose: I spent a good number of years of my adult life being racist towards South Asians.  So I know that particular drill.  He’s a racist motherfucker.

  30. 30.

    wjca

    @Ruckus:  It is not all that uncommon in Alaska that small planes crash. The cold, that most everything has to be flown in and in smallish airplanes.

    On top of which, so many places can only be reached by plane.  So there’s a lot more flying, per capita, than in the rest of the country.

  31. 31.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    There’s something increasingly disturbing about that X sigil in the upper right corner of each tweet.  More and more it reminds me of a swastika.

  33. 33.

    Tony Jay

    The one thing that our corporate News Media types love to do for their airtime, bonus and promotion providing bosses is to turn all of their journamalistical skills towards identifying that One Uncool Chink in the armour of (insert primary figurehead of the ‘Party of the Left’) into which they can jam an ill-fitting Narrative Frame through which only untrustworthiness and nefarious intent can be viewed.

    It works best when there are factional elements within the ‘Party of the Left’ who, as in the the UK 2017/2019 and the US 2016, are more than happy to play the ratfucker role and spend as much time as possible in front of cameras and microphones legitimising the News Media’s scrolling barrage of ‘clouds’ and ‘chill winds’ coverage in the eyes of casual viewers. Less well when the Party is unified around their leader and uniform in punching back against bullshit narratives.

    So far 2024, in the US at least, is gearing up to be a case of the latter, which is why the corporate News Media is so very, very pissy about Joe Biden. They’re not going to get better, so the only option is to be better than they are at getting accurate information out. The Democrats seem to be doing well enough on that front too. Long may it continue.

  35. 35.

    Baud

    The first George Bush had campaign bumper stickers that said “Annoy the media, vote Bush.”

    Might be time to repurpose that idea.

  36. 36.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    no actual Biden scandals to cover

    This reminds me of how the media desperately tried to manufacture a “Katrina” to “both sides” Obama

    Why “Obama’s Katrina” Never Sticks But Won’t Die

    Aug 22, 2016 — (New Republic)

    As a genre of political spin and analysis, “Obama’s Katrina” has been with us since the beginning of the president’s administration. Anytime something tragic and abrupt happens in the country is an occasion for Republicans and media figures to compare it to President George W. Bush’s famously terrible response to Hurricane Katrina in 2005.

    By the Washington Post’s count, there have been 23 Obama’s Katrinas since 2009, and that only brings us through to July 2014.

  38. 38.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    @Baud: ​
     a combined “Munchausen by proxy” variation for gaining attention coupled with a peer pressure syndrome where they want to fit in with the DC culture established by (Broder and Sally Quinn, Think Tanks) of false equivalency and double standards.

    I remember when Don Imus got fired for his sick racism and Gwen Ifill pointed out how for 15 years he would openly mock her as the “cleaning lady” and she would question her colleagues how could they appear on the show and most of the time they would respond “everyone else is appearing on the show”.

  41. 41.

    Kay

    They’re punishing him for not giving enough interviews to the outlets that pay them.

    I don’t think it’s idelogical – that gives them too much credit. it’s just ordinary, conventional careerism and frantic efforts to keep the industry relevant. But Her Emails and now He’s Too Old are ways to show that they’re powerful. If it sticks they succeeded.

  42. 42.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    That makes sense.   But it seems to me they could get more access if they didn’t use their access to push Republican talking points in an attempt to get a gotcha moment.

    Liberals still trust the media too much, but it’s not going to last forever.

  43. 43.

    Kay

    Will Stancil is smart and original. Democrats could stop paying 5 or 6 (griftery) polling analysis firms and replace them with Will Stancil. A bargain!

  44. 44.

    Geminid

    @Kay: You would make a much more valuable replacement for these polling analysis firms than would Will Stancil.

    ed. And that’s not a slam at Mr. Stancil.

  45. 45.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    Liberals still trust the media too much, but it’s not going to last forever.

    I wouldn’t blame Democrats for abandoning trust in the media but it would be a real tragedy if both sides started getting all their news from hacks on you tube and Rumble. What replaces conventional media is also garbage.
    I still think it’s too early for media to write Biden off. I think they erred by jumping the gun. Normies still think there’s going to be some shake up at the top of the ticket (because idiot centist pundits keep telling them this might happen, when it won’t)
    It’s a choice of two. When normies realize that Biden will rebound.
    They consistently underestimate Biden because they think he’s dumb. It really is his superpower :)
    It is depressing as hell to watch though. I tell people to disengage for the next 6 months. No reason to give them eyes and ears for this crap, low quality work. Their industry doesn’t reward quality.

  46. 46.

    Ramalama

    @Ruckus: Presumably now you’re out of the Navy. Do you live in the dessert now to make up for living on a boat above the Arctic Circle? Did you perform dares for classmates when you were younger?

  47. 47.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    Yes, most of the alternatives are garbage.  I still can’t help think about the market failure that leaves millions of mainline Democrats underrepresented in media voices.  I wonder if it’s just that most of us don’t consume news media and those that do are drawn to doomy stories.

  48. 48.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    I think he has insight into how people think and behave. Not how they’re “supposed” to think and behave. How they think and behave.

    People just aren’t mechanistically following facts and reaching conclusions because there’s all these crazy contradictions between what they say and what they do. I noticed it with the economy starting at least two years ago. They tell pollsters the economy is bad but they’re spending like crazy. That just isn’t how people behave when they believe the economy is bad. Trump really is only 3 years younger than Biden. That is a fact. If they were rigorously following facts that would influence their opinion of relative “oldness”. That it doesn’t tells you they are responding to a narrative.

  49. 49.

    Geminid

    @Alison Rose: Regarding the death of Rep. Peltola’s husband: an Alaska TV station reported that according to the NTSB, the plane crash occurred around 8:45 pm. I’m guessing that was after sunset, so night flying conditions might have been a factor

  50. 50.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    This is just my anecdotal experience but the most “doomery” Democrats here locally are not the online Democrats but the older Democrats who primarily rely on cable news. I’ve been spending so much time in Michigan I haven’t talked to them as much lately but I imagine they are in an absolute tizzy with all this (manufactured) “bad news for Biden”.

    I’m fatalistic about it. Biden did a great job. If the idiots elect Trump well so be it- they signed their own nations death warrant. Joe Biden could not have done better.

  52. 52.

    StringOnAStick

    @Baud: Once I stopped reading the bird site, rawstory, etc, I found my life was so much better, I was just as well informed by aggressively curating my sources and content, and most of all my lifelong depression was greatly reduced.  News sells via fear, thus doomy stories but it’s killing our polity and destroying what sense of contentment remains to us in the late Anthropocene.  The most pernicious thing it does is render too many into cynics who can’t be bothered to be involved with politics or trying to solve any problem because they see any action as cringe and doomed.  I saw this with the various young guides we had in Argentina; things have been so bad for so long that young people there are tuning out and just keeping their heads down.  Gee, and we wonder why do many choose to remain childless.  The climate change we are living through now was thoroughly discussed in my 1970-80’s earth science class, and it’s why I have no children.

  53. 53.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I would say that Stancil has insight into the importance of how people think and behave. You have much more insight into how people actually think and behave.

    Again, this is no slam at Stancil; it’s just that you are a keener observer and have a lot more practical experience.

  54. 54.

    Baud

    @StringOnAStick:

    For me, the jury is still out on young people, but I’m saddened that so many seem to have chosen the oligarch/fascist friendly approach of passing up opportunities for progress.

  55. 55.

    Steeplejack

    Went to bed early (for me) last night and of course woke up way too early this morning, around 3:30. Tried to go back to sleep for a while, then got up, made coffee and got an early start on my rage-scrolling.

    Sam Stein was subbing in as the host on Way Too Early, and he was really leaning right in a way I haven’t seen much of on MSNBC. I haven’t seen him before. He was hitting the “Is Biden too old?” thing, as well as “Why can’t the Democrats sell ‘Bidenomics,’ because the public isn’t buying it?” WTF. If that’s true, one reason is because the media talking heads bad-mouth “Biden’s economy” all the time. Inflation!

    Segued into Morning Joe, and let me say fuck that useless has-been Mitt Romney and his call for Biden (and Trump) to follow his noble lead and retire to make way for a new generation of leadership. He’s a one-term senator who has accomplished nothing, as far as I can tell—okay, he did vote to convict Trump in at least one of the impeachment trials—and when he rhapsodizes about his “25 years of public service” it makes me want to vomit. And, of course, as is the custom now, he saved all his revelations and spicy bits for a book—not his, but still—as he’s on his way out the door. Well, not quite. He still has 16 months to go in his term, which I’m sure will be ultra-productive now that he has dished dirt on everybody in the vicinity.

    P.S. I am sick of Joe Scarborough rhapsodizing about how great and effective the Republicans were back when he was in Congress. Just say you’re an ex-Rethug and leave it at that, Joe. Don’t make us look up your record as a running dog for Newt Gingrich. (They overlapped for two of Joe’s three terms.)

    Grr. Time for more coffee, maybe.

  56. 56.

    jlowe

    My awareness about the poor quality of news reporting on political matters began in 1997 after reading Breaking the News by James Fallows.

  57. 57.

    Kay

    Romney quitting is a really bad sign for the country, I think. Romney actually IS rich and actually DOES love his family – he never needed the job or the adoration, unlike the Trumps.

    Media may never admit it but Mitt Romney throwing in the towel on the Republican Party is scary. That’s how nuts they are- irredeemable – and all we need is a two point shift and they’re in power. Knifes edge, baby. ROMNEY will be okay if his nutjob party get back in the power but the country won’t.

  58. 58.

    Princess

    For the individual news people it may be not ideological. I fully believe most of them are just in it for the book contracts and the fame. But for the owners it’s certainly ideological and they hire editors who will bring them the ends they want. The good reporting in other areas is just s gateway to allow them to spread their political poison. They’re not worried about the end of democracy because they’ll be happy to print whatever the boss wants. There are still news media in Russia.

  59. 59.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack:

    Shouldn’t Republicans do more SELF reflection on the fact that Mitt Romney has to spend 5k a month to protect his family from their base? Physical protection? He’s afraid a loyal Republican will kill his family.

    They don’t have time to criticize Joe Biden. The monster they created is eating the country. I mean, Christ. At what point do they take responsibility for this?

  61. 61.

    Kay

    @Princess:

    Good point about the owners. I always think about The Toledo Blade. Owned by a completely decadent rich family- The Blocks. No redeeming qualities among any of the Blocks- spoiled, ungrateful rich people. They fucking ruined that paper. It’s just a platform for the Blocks to push anti union, far Right garbage now. At one time it won awards. They also own a Pittsburgh paper.

  62. 62.

    Betty Cracker

    I mentioned earlier we’ve got new wingnut neighbors — a snowbird couple who travel a lot, so they won’t be around much. I haven’t officially met them yet. I know they’re wingnuts (or at least the husband is) because he came out into the road while Bill was opening our gate to ask about internet and trash service, and Bill reported the dude was wearing a Trump – DeSantis 2024 shirt “but otherwise seemed nice.” Ugh!

    Most people back here have gated driveways and dense vegetation and sloughs separating our properties — we don’t casually run into each other. So, between that and their frequent travel, I figured I could avoid the new neighbors forever. But the man waylaid Bill at the gate again yesterday to seek his advice on how to deal with their well water softener thingy, and while Bill was showing him how that works, the man very persistently invited us to dinner, wearing Bill down until he agreed!

    We had a conversation about that yesterday because he agreed, not me, but I decided I will go. It’s better to be on good terms with neighbors than not, and as long as they’re not all up in my face with their pro-fascist politics, I guess I can get along with them as well as I do with my wingnut relatives and the other 70% of citizens of this county.

    I won’t bring it up if they don’t. If they do, they’ll hear my unvarnished opinion. They’re leaving tomorrow for a one-month trip, so I have some weeks to prepare myself.

  63. 63.

    Splitting Image

    I think a big part of it is the collapse of print advertising with the onset of the internet. It used to be that most news advertising was local, not national. Biased, sure, since the biggest advertisers in newspapers tended to be car dealerships,  but at least local.

    This revenue has mostly disappeared and been replaced by political advertising, especially since Citizens United. Most of it comes from Superpacs and most of it is Republican leaning. News media at this point survives by a quadrennial infusion of money from Presidential campaigns. If they don’t make the news friendly to the interests of the Koch Brothers, they risk losing their share of the billion or so they he spends every cycle electing his toadies.

    As usual, the Republicans project like crazy, pretending that George Soros spends more money than all of the Republicans put together, but they get the dynamic right. The news exists to launder the talking points pushed by Superpacs. That’s it.

  64. 64.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    I wouldn’t blame Democrats for abandoning trust in the media but it would be a real tragedy if both sides started getting all their news from hacks on you tube and Rumble. What replaces conventional media is also garbage.

    Wouldn’t mind seeing Politico, Axios, Punchbowl, etc. disappear from the face of the earth, though.

  66. 66.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    I’ve been listening to Josh Marshall’s podcast. It’s good. He’s probably too wordy but he’s a historian so has a longer view and his co host is a young woman who is really sharp about politics, so it’s a nice mix of long view/short view.

  68. 68.

    Steeplejack

    @Steeplejack:

    Went out to get a breath of fresh air and a McMuffin. Had MSNBC on in the car, of course. I do want to note that Joe Scarborough and Willie Geist were doing a full-throated defense of Biden against the “too old” thing. As usual. I was just struck earlier by how Sam Stein was leaning hard the other way.

  69. 69.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Yeah, I’m curious about a guy who wears a Trump/DeSantis 2024 shirt. An unusual (I hope) subspecies of Republicanis Horribilus.

  70. 70.

    Kay

    Marshall says about Biden’s age “this has been decided” and it has. These stupid fucking think pieces about how we’re trading out the incumbent just isn’t how it works – I forgive my 20 year old son for thinking this is a live issue because he’s 20 but Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are the ticket. This “debate” is bullshit. Pundits KNOW it’s bullshit.

    I know they want to air their stupid opinions about how Gretchen Whitmer should be President but that isn’t happening. It’s not my problem they have nothing else to write.

    Once Democrats realize this “discussion” is bullshit they will rally around Biden.

  71. 71.

    Betty Cracker

    @Kay: That’s the only political podcast I listen to anymore, and I agree about the dynamics between the hosts. Kate Riga has done a terrific job covering the GOP assault on reproductive rights, both on the podcast and the site.

  72. 72.

    satby

    @Betty Cracker: having to live among them, you already know that telling them firmly that you’re not politically on the same page is enough to move the semi-normal ones on to different topics for the duration of the conversation. The cultists argue, but that gives you an excuse to leave and then avoid them.

    Most of them learn to STFU. Even the guy I yelled at for pushing Russian propaganda about Ukraine (including calling him a traitor to his face, loudly, in a busy Saturday market) ended up buying soap from me. They’re squishes, most of them.

  73. 73.

    Steeplejack

    @Kay:

    A woman guest on Morning Joe (a reporter, I didn’t catch her name) made a good point: She said Romney came into the Senate thinking that he would be an elder statesman and a force for moderation, and he basically got ignored. So maybe he realized the futility early on.

  74. 74.

    Marmot

    So doomy on here this morning! The election is more than a year in the future. Normies don’t even start paying attention for another seven months!

    We’re in a good position for next November. Tell everyone.

    (Edit: Having said that, I spoke to my normie Dem friend yesterday and he brought up the ”old” thing. My reflex is to berate people for mindlessness, but I think I made a decent case pointing out that it’s a media trope resulting from a grasping for “balance.”)

  75. 75.

    zhena gogolia

    Will Stancil, the GOP doesn’t have to “figure anything out,” because the media is on their side. They’re not on ours, so it doesn’t matter a fuck what we “figure out.”

  79. 79.

    satby

    Since we’re talking about the failed US media and what’s replacing it, if you like podcasts (I don’t particularly) or videos, try Politics Girl. I’ve shared her YouTube links with younger relatives and they’ve been receptive. She also is on TikTok, and has a large yout audience there.

    Link goes to her recent media critique video.

  80. 80.

    Kay

    @Steeplejack:

    It genuinely makes me anxious when moderate Republicans bail because it’s absolutely a recognition by insider Republicans that the party is irredeemable. It’s happened in Ohio. Five high profile former Republicans came out against the undemocratic attempt to outlaw ballot issues. They’re not doing this in response to the extreme policy of Democrats – it’s Republicans warning against Republicans.

    Media are really the last people to admit Republicans are off the deep end. They’re the one hold out. Normal Republicans all admit it.

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @Marmot:

    It’s hard to determine if Democrats are worried that he’s too old as a substantive issue or if Democrats are worried that he’s too old which will hurt him in the election. I think it’s worth asking them to specify. They want to win so they fret about what they perceive as vulnerabilities that they may not care about, but think “the public” cares about.

    “I think he’s too old to serve” or “people think he’s too old to get elected”

  82. 82.

    Steeplejack

    @Kay:

    Amen to this.

    I think “Biden is too old” is partially a reaction to the fact that everyone has given up on the idea of the Republicans doing anything positive or productive at all. So there is a lot of flailing about “what can the Democrats do?” And that provides space for idiotic and/​or sinister memes to be introduced into the discussion.

    I feel like people are very anxious and don’t want to face the reality—barring some extraordinary event—that it’s going to be Biden vs. Trump and we just have to wait it out until next year. People want something to happen, even if it’s not useful, to quell their anxiety.

    As you said, better to tune out for six months or so. (Which advice I should probably follow myself.)

  83. 83.

    evodevo

    @Betty Cracker: ​
      Our neighbors are (or were, before the Plague hit) Trumpists, too, but she is an RN and a sweetie, and one of their best friends is a public worker who HATES HATES Trumpy, so that is off the table when we get together, so we maintain friendly relations with them and eat dinner there on a regular basis. Politics and religion (they are Joel Osteen fundies, too lol) are never mentioned, and it has worked out fine for several years. We always have a good time when we meet, and the relationship is lasting…

  84. 84.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Kay: I’ve been reading Paul Campos’s public fretting about this for a while and I think that there’s a third element in his version: an idea that “the gerontocracy” is a wider problem (with the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the disability of Dianne Feinstein as illustrative cases) and that he has to go on about how Biden is too old to be fairly consistent with that principle.

    Also, I think he has a bit of the anxiety about Kamala Harris being our backup, though he frames it as “other people don’t like her” rather than concern about her directly.

  86. 86.

    Betty Cracker

    @eclare: I’ve never understood the car elevator thing. Is it so you can park another car underneath it? That seems like an insanely costly solution to a space problem.

  88. 88.

    MomSense

    Could someone please explain to me like I’m five years old what the hell Joe Biden supposedly did to belong in jail?  Same for Pelosi. I see the right wingers repeat this all the time but I cannot figure out what they are talking about.  Is it some Q chat stuff?

  89. 89.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Kay:

    if Democrats are worried that he’s too old which will hurt him in the election

    I’m positive it’s this, and to the horse-race National press this is indistinguishable from Biden being unpopular.  The media has convinced Democrats that other people don’t like Biden, rather than convincing Democrats to not like him.

  92. 92.

    Soprano2

    @MomSense: There’s an e-mail on the sketchy laptop where someone refers to “The Big Guy”. They believe that this refers to Joe Biden, and that it proves that he took a $5 million bribe to prevent the Ukrainian government from investigating Burisma, the company that Hunter was allied with. At least I think that’s what it’s about. Of course, the truth was the opposite, Biden was advocating for the firing of the government prosecutor who refused to investigate Burisma and other sketchy companies in Ukraine, but Republicans don’t let this fact get in the way of their preferred narrative.

  93. 93.

    Baud

    @satby:

    Thanks.  It’s good to hear that. We should try highlight that more.  And by we. I mean you and others who pay attention to this stuff.

  94. 94.

    Steeplejack

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think one sinister subtext of the “Biden’s too old, he should step down (or not run)” thing is that it’s a backhanded way to presumably get rid of Kamala Harris. There’s a lot of, what’s the word, misogynoir at work that people don’t want to own up to. And I think there is a fair amount of Clinton ’16 PTSD, too. “We already tried one extremely qualified woman candidate, and she lost. Maybe someday, but not yet.”

  95. 95.

    There go two miscreants

    @satby: ​Thanks for that link and the rec. My oldest granddaughter is about to turn 18, so I will share it with her. No idea what she thinks about politics etc. My son and DIL are both Democrats, but normies (in my estimation), so she has a good environment, but we are in NC so lots of worse influences around. (I try not to butt into their lives much.)

  97. 97.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @MomSense:

    what the hell Joe Biden supposedly did to belong in jail?

    They believe that Biden has been taking bribes through Hunter Biden to sell national policy to foreigners.  Specifically, they think he’s been caught taking a 5 million dollar bribe from companies in Ukraine.  Their backup for that is that an unidentified Ukrainian friend of Giuliani told the FBI he saw it.  Said friend cannot be found and maybe died, they’re not sure?  Oh, and the FBI could find no supporting evidence.  But hey, there’s a piece of paper in the FBI files saying someone said Biden took bribes!

    EDIT – Oh, and it used to be that one of Hunter’s emails said ‘the big guy’ would get a cut of one deal.  Of course there is absolutely no one a business executive would call that except Joe Biden, right???  The rest of the emails were Hunter explaining the things he would not do because that would be illegal.

    They’ve mostly moved on from that one now that they have FBI DOCUMENT!!!!!

  99. 99.

    Soprano2

    @Geminid: That’s entirely possible. It was finally determined through a lawsuit that the plane my sister was in crashed due to the failure of a $0.25 screw to always stay screwed into an instrument that’s used in nighttime flying. This screw coming loose caused an instrument to read incorrectly. Evidently the company knew this was a problem, but for some unknown insane reason didn’t inform owners of the plane of it. Ask me how that makes me feel. Friday is the 11th anniversary of their deaths, which were totally unnecessary. I grieve for all the people on Mr. Pelota’s plane.

  100. 100.

    AM in NC

    @evodevo:  You must be a better person than I am.

    At this point in my life, I just will not be friends with people who I see as literally trying to get my kids killed, stuff women into the kitchen, and steal elections when they don’t win.  I just can’t do it. I wouldn’t be able to hold my tongue.  My husband could, but I have become physically incapable of staying quiet.

  101. 101.

    satby

    @Baud: I do, but I seldom see more than one or two respond here, making me wonder if anyone bothers to click over. And news not shared is news not spread.

  102. 102.

    eclare

    @Betty Cracker:

    I don’t know how many levels it is.  I assume it is so that the car comes to him so he doesn’t have to wade through a vast parking lot to get to the one he wants to drive that day.

    But it could be space.

  103. 103.

    Baud

    @satby:

    I rarely click on stuff.  I still like knowing what’s out there.  I doubt I’ll personally start consuming new media anytime soon, and I’ve mostly given up on old media. Old dog, new tricks and all that.

  104. 104.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I agree, it’s a bad sign. When people like that throw in the towel, all that’s left are the barking crazy people like Gym Jordan and MTG.

  105. 105.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: Maybe Romney can park several cars up there.

    That sounds potentially hazardous to me. I think that if I had that money I’d build a one-story roundhouse, like they used to have for railroad locomotives.

  107. 107.

    Kay

    @Matt McIrvin:

     (with the death of Ruth Bader Ginsburg and the disability of Dianne Feinstein as illustrative cases)

    I am not crazy about Campos but they are illustrative cases. As is McConnell. The fact is they should have retired. I just don’t have patience for this- you can’t fall asleep on the bench over and over and keep your job as a judge. It’s not actually about whether they “want” to remain. I don’t care. I want to hike the Appalachian Trail. If I wait until I’m 75 I might have trouble doing that. I don’t have a “right” to do it.

    Also- the people saying “Bernie Sanders” are contradicting their own argument. It is a DEFENSE of Joe Biden to draw distinctions between people who are too old and impaired and people who are not.
    If you want to defend Joe Biden then don’t make the measure chronological age. Biden’s whole defense is he’s in good shape despite being 80. Saying “but Bernie Sanders!” is saying they should be disqualified on age alone. Sanders, like Biden, is not impaired. So in our argument neither should resign.

  109. 109.

    Baud

    @Kay:

    I’m not saying Sanders should resign because of age.  I’m pointing out the hypocrisy of those who go on about the age of politicians but ignore the old folks they like.

    ETA: I will note, however, that Bernie has already had one heart attack.

  111. 111.

    Subsole

    @Kay:

    They take responsibility when we shove them neck-deep into it and hold them there until they stop kicking.

    And not one millisecond sooner.

  112. 112.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Soprano2: Romney is 76, I believe.  I don’t think that someone that age deciding that they are done is necessarily that worrisome.  I don’t have a problem with politicians (Biden, Pelosi) staying in politics past the normal retirement age, but I also don’t think that someone of that age stepping down is at all surprising.

  113. 113.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Omnes Omnibus: Romney, like Elizabeth Warren, is one of these people who looks much younger than his actual age, so doesn’t get as much of the “too old” complaint for that reason.

  114. 114.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Marmot:

    So doomy on here this morning! The election is more than a year in the future. Normies don’t even start paying attention for another seven months!

    Seven months from now, the primary season will be all but over. (Officially, that is. In reality, it already is.)  It will have occurred to most Dems by February that there are no meaningful challengers to Biden (because RFK Jr. and Marianne Williamson don’t count) – no Whitmer, no Newsom, not even Bernie – and that’ll pretty much end the ‘who should be nominee’ bullshit.

    Hopefully it won’t be replaced by a bunch of pieces about why Biden should replace Harris on the ticket. Gimme a break on this one, you media shit-stirrers.

  116. 116.

    Denali5

    I thought the car elevator was because Ann Romney has MS and cannot do stairs.

    #2 It is so frightening to see what has happened to the press. We are in trouble if we don’t have unbiased media. See Hungary. I don’t know what the answer is. I don’t particularly like podcasts; for some reason I still like to get information by reading it.

    Thank you Kay for your comments. And Gannett news at one time was a respected publication.

  117. 117.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    I am not crazy about Campos but they are illustrative cases. As is McConnell. The fact is they should have retired.

    In RBG’s case, I’ve never been clear on when she should have known that she should retire, at a time when her replacement wouldn’t have been blocked.

  118. 118.

    scribbler

    @satby: Thank you for this clear but gentle kick in the pants to remind us all click over to your links.  I am always really glad to hear that the youngsters are finding better alternatives for decent news coverage, but I often don’t follow through and check out the sites.  I should.

    eta: and please continue to keep us informed!

  120. 120.

    Anyway

    @Betty Cracker:

    I’ve never understood the car elevator thing. Is it so you can park another car underneath it? That seems like an insanely costly solution to a space problem.

    I’ve seen these in urban apartments buildings – most recently in Portland OR. You could park 30 cars in 10 slots. It’s pretty slick and I enjoyed the mechanical aspects of it…I’ll try and find a link.

     

  121. 121.

    What Have the Romans Ever Done for US?

    @Kay: Spending like crazy isn’t a normal response to a normal recession where people are afraid of losing their jobs. But it’s not all that uncommon a response to relatively high inflation. People have income to spend because they have jobs, might as well by X today because it’s going to cost more next week or month or whenever.

    @Baud: The economy is in good shape when it comes to job creation. The issue is people are falling behind, because wages have gone up but not up as high as prices. So people don’t feel like everything is hunky dory even though they’re generally not worried about losing their jobs – they are somewhat worried about covering all their expenses.

    None of this is Biden’s fault, of course. And inflation does seem to be easing so if wages keep increasing for a few more months, by the time people really start tuning into the election it’s possible people will be feeling pretty good about the economy. It’d probably be worse or no better if TiFG were still in charge. And part of the issue is that lower income people are feeling it the most and a lot of that is due to the expiration of the earned income tax credit. Which sucks, as Republicans never met a tax cut they didn’t love until that one.

  122. 122.

    Ivan X

    @Alison Rose: I think it *is* ok to be a racist as long as you’re quiet about it, and don’t take racist actions. We can’t ask people to change their feelings. We can absolutely demand that they change their actions.

    I’m not proud of everything I think and feel, but I choose what to express and what to suppress. I might do it because what I suppress I believe to be wrong. But I’m fine with others suppressing just because they’re shamed into doing so. Just *do* right in the world. Think whatever you want, I don’t care.

    That’s the most dangerous thing about Trump, IMO. He tells people who are suppressing their racist thoughts from societal shaming that they’re now free to let it all out.

  123. 123.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Betty Cracker: @Anyway:  It is insanely costly, but it is used by people who can afford insanely costly without thinking about.  Here is a central London house that has one.*  It gives the owner a place to park the Range Rover and the vintage 911.

    *Watch the video for the artwork in the kitchen.

  124. 124.

    Kay

    @lowtechcyclist:

    When Obama was elected? She can count senators. Christ, he would have let her essentially pick her replacement. They basically begged her to retire. 

    No one is forcing these people to never work again, either. They would all immediately go on prestigious boards, to nonprofits, to universities etc.

    The Appalachian Trail isn’t discriminating against me if I get too old to hike it. It doesn’t care. Whatever is tripping up Feinstiens and McConnells brains doesn’t care either. It’s not personal.

  126. 126.

    Marmot

    @Kay:

    “I think he’s too old to serve” or “people think he’s too old to get elected”

    in the case of my friend, it seems a lot like the latter, rather than the former.

  127. 127.

    artem1s

    @Matt McIrvin:

    he frames it as “other people don’t like her” rather than concern about her directly color and lack of penis.

    let’s be direct. they wouldn’t give a shit about Biden’s age if his VP was Joe Manchin or RFKjr.

  129. 129.

    Soprano2

    @Omnes Omnibus: No, it’s not because of age, it’s because he’s a “regular” Republican and he’s telling everyone a regular Republican cannot function in their party anymore.

  130. 130.

    artem1s

    @Ivan X:

    I think it *is* ok to be a racist as long as you’re quiet about it,

    silence is complicity. and voting for an overtly racist party is not being quiet about it. it never was. it’s just that some of us can’t ignore that our neighbors and family members are completely fine with a political party that wants to ruin us financially and/or kill us outright.

  132. 132.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Soprano2: ​
      I understand that part. I still say that a 76 year old saying “I don’t need this shit anymore” is different than it would be if a 40 year old was saying same thing.

  134. 134.

    UncleEbeneezer

    I have never seen Stancil offer anything incisive.  He’s one of the routine offenders who constantly helps feed the same BS cycle that he refers to.  He always circles back to blaming Dems.

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