It’s superseding indictment time!
BREAKING: DOJ files a superseding indictment for Congressman George Santos.
Total charges: 23
— Jack E. Smith ⚖️ (@7Veritas4) October 10, 2023
I feel certain the ethics committee run by the Rs will immediately ask him to step down from any committees. If he is even on any? And surely they will boot Santos and Gaetz out of the R caucus!?!!!
⭐️
And speaking of ethics (or lack thereof):
Republicans’ temporary speaker, Patrick McHenry, received 90 percent of his campaign cash this year from lobbyists and industries he regulates — and only $856 from small donors.https://t.co/qLA0BbECHm
— Citizens for Ethics (@CREWcrew) October 10, 2023
⭐️
Want to do something?
NEW: The Biden Administration is working with congressional leaders to link US aid to Israel and aid to Ukraine. Yesterday, McConnell floated the idea of passing one spending bill for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. Call your rep to get this done. https://t.co/PjPyDBVqV3
— Mueller, She Wrote 🇺🇦 🇮🇱 (@MuellerSheWrote) October 10, 2023
⭐️
What else is in the news? It’s so hard to keep up!
Open thread.
sdhays
You’re such a kidder.
Eolirin
That’s a winnable seat for us too.
MattF
Wouldn’t surprise me if Santos turns up suddenly in another country. Otherwise he’s headed to prison for a while.
WaterGirl
@sdhays: That’s something my dad would have said. Thanks for the memory!
dmsilev
True story, from just a few hours ago: I was having lunch with some colleagues and they happened to mention that there is, for real, a (different) George Santos who studies abstruse mathematical physics problems. They were speculating, to much amusement, that the Congressional George Santos would try to claim credit for advances made in the understanding of quantum gravity theories and the like. Because, apparently, George Santos contains multitudes. All George Santoses are one.
WaterGirl
@Eolirin: Don’t get me started. We should have won it last time. s
I’m looking at you, most of NY.
Scout211
Reposted from downstairs, if jackals don’t want to link through on X:
Scout211
OCTOBER 10, 2023 AT 6:28 PM
Has this been posted yet? Link
WaterGirl
@dmsilev: That was good for a laugh out loud.
MattF
@dmsilev: The multiverse is a very strange place.
dmsilev
@MattF: We’re on the phone with Marvel Studios right now.
WaterGirl
@Scout211:
Wow. That one is really special. A real role model, he is.
mrmoshpotato
@Scout211:
Nooooooo!!!!! Not George Santos (if that is that shitass’s real name!)!
Eolirin
@WaterGirl: The anti-vaxxers got their claws deep in the Orthodox Jewish population in the state. COVID restrictions and Hochul trying to hold Yeshivas to the same standards as other educational bodies with respect to civil rights violations toward the LGBTQ population hurt us a lot.
WaterGirl
“All the major U.S. television networks carried live President Biden‘s very strong statement of support for Israel …”
Because they give a shit about people dying in Israel and don’t really care about the genocide and war crimes in Ukraine.
Biden was supposed to have a big speech this week about Ukraine, and it appears that the big speech ended up being about Israel.
dmsilev
@WaterGirl: The RNC and Trump used all sorts of tricks to illicitly sign up donors for recurring charges when the donors meant to do one-offs. I’m not sure I see much moral difference between them and Santos.
No, that’s not an endorsement of Santos.
WaterGirl
@Eolirin: Well, hopefully they will get un-butt-hurt.
Eolirin
@WaterGirl: I’ll settle for them not voting.
Baud
Supersede that Mofo!
OverTwistWillie
Cue Dragnet theme.
The story you are about to see is true. The names have been changed to protect the innocent.
TaMara
Hey for anyone who was looking – I promised to try for a kindness post today, but my SIL just got diagnosed with breast cancer (seems very early and treatable, thankfully) and I’m still waiting for a plumber, any plumber to get back to me about an issue with the outside spigot. Which I’m annoyed I can’t fix myself, but the pipes are super old and I worry if I dick around with it, I might make things much worse.
I will try again tomorrow. I do have some fun things set aside and we could all use some good news.
Here’s a little good news;
Jay
@WaterGirl:
there was an announcement of another package of aid,
look for a speech later in the week.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
I would suspect that the need to support Ukraine speech will come when Congress gets closer to voting on funding for them.
Scout211
To be fair, Santos is a role model . . . for the modern GOP. Who doesn’t steal donors’ credit cards and identities? Just a little light wire fraud, money laundering, identity theft and criminal conspiracy among friends, no?
Dan B
@MattF: The two non extradition countries I can think of, Saudi and Russia are not good for gays. Where could Santos / Ravach go?
Jay
@TaMara:
sorry about your sister, hoping for the best, fuck cancer.
Spigot or tap?
Is it dripping?
If it’s a gate style tap, there are rubber washers that seal off the flow. They are easy to replace and most hardware stores carry a small pack, pretty cheap, with every type of rubber washer. All you need is a crescent wrench and a phillips screwdriver. There should also be a shut off to the tap on the inside pipe, (frost issues).
If it’s a ball valve, it pretty much needs to be replaced.
If it’s a cartridge style, it should not be outside.
Jay C
@WaterGirl:
Events just may have interceded to alter his plans….
Though I’m sure Joe will get around to Ukraine in good time (probably not too much time, either); as I saw posted somewhere today: we actually do have an Administration in place that CAN walk and chew gum at the same time (though you wouldn’t know it from the “mainstream” media…)
Baud
@TaMara:
🤞 for your sister.
CaseyL
@TaMara: When you want to celebrate kindness, but life gets in the way…
I am very sorry to hear about your SIL. I hope her treatment goes well and she beats cancer to a pulp. A thing lately among people going into chemo – men and women – is to pro-actively shave their heads as soon as the hair starts to come out. It seems to be an empowering thing for them, to choose the time and place of losing their hair.
(I know this because I subscribe to a lot of YT channels, and two of the vloggers I follow have had to deal with cancer recently.) Best wishes to her, and to all the family!
WaterGirl
@Jay: ooh, do you have a link?
How did it get through the House? Or is it some short-term workaround?
Dan B
@TaMara: Best wishes for your sister. And the tic token was great. Jaylen is a great looking guy inside and out.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: now now, it ain’t like Biden and his people have been stiff-arming Ukraine. The Hamas attack is almost all anybody want to talk about right now, both parties are falling all over themselves to proclaim that they are the true friends of Israel, and anything less than full-throated support is being criticized as treachery. I have no doubt he’s sincere, but in any case he’s gonna make statements like this, and the media are going to grab it like their lives depend on it.
The trick I’ve seen discussed is linking (more) aid to Israel with aid to Ukraine. Aid to Israel is “must-pass.” And as you point out, the situations have a lot of parallels. Makes sense to me on more than one level.
WaterGirl
Interesting. Why is lying always the go-to???
MattF
@Dan B: One suspects he’s asking himself that very question. Considering the number and variety of identities he’s assumed, just vanishing sounds to me like a real possibility.
Dan B
@bbleh: I saw that McConnell wants to include Taiwan aid as well to the Israel and Ukraine package.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Can haz a front page post of Biden’s address?
Baud
@WaterGirl:
“Oh, that warning.”
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: I get that. I mean, one is new and shiny and has most of the Republican Party on board to kill a bunch of brown people, while Dems are aghast at the attack and barbarity in general. Biden should make big statements of support and bank positive coverage.
And then he should talk about how we need to defend Democracies from invasion by Russia, Iran and their allies and push all three countries’ support in a single bill.
@WaterGirl: Lying is the go-to for authoritarian governments (and Right governments, but I repeat myself). It generally does work really well – they can keep their own base listening just to the lies and they get the lie out first so that’s what the initial impression is. Then the truth has to claw itself into the public, and that’s always a hard lift. If you have no morals at all and a captive media, it’s just a lot easier.
bbleh
@Dan B: Were I Biden, I’d hop right on that one. McConnell’s already a supporter of Ukraine, but to tie him closer couldn’t hurt. Plus it’s insulation against the Orange Menace ranting about JY-na.
Baud
@Dan B:
Sounds good.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: What is happening in Israel is awful. No doubt about it. But that stuff is happening every day in Ukraine and there’s way too much “concern” about funding for Ukraine. The contrast between that and everyone slobbering all over themselves to fund Israel.
The contract makes me sick. Israel is complicit in this because of their barbaric treatment of Palestinians, and Ukraine is not.
Sadly, the citizens who are being hurt are most not likely complicit, in Israel and Gaza. And certainly not in Ukraine.
Slaughtering people at a Peace rave. So much evil.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Its better that President Biden put the Ukraine speech off. Most people who would be interested are focused on the Israel/Gaza war right now.
The important work on Ukraine is being done in Congress, and it seems to me that a Biden speech would be helpful but not essential there. It will have more impact anyway when the House gets organized again. Republicans there are preoccupied right now.
The senate will back aid for Ukraine, and there is a substantial majority in the House that wants more aid too. Getting it passed may be a tricky procedural problem but in the end, I think an aid bill will be passed.
Time to read up on Petitions to Discharge, or hunt up some reporter who has.
Ken
Meanwhile in other fraud news, the lucky, lucky jurors in the Sam Bankman-Fried trial got to do code review today. Also, Stringer Bell’s famous quote gets an addition: is you making detailed comments for your code that implements your criminal fraud?
MisterForkbeard
@WaterGirl: Tom Hawley was talking about how Israel was in an existential crisis, and Ukraine isn’t.
Israel isn’t threatened with overthrow or dissolution, not by Hamas. It might be if Syria or other local Arab polities take the opportunity for all out war, and I think that’s why we’re sending carriers over.
But Ukraine? Ukraine is directly and openly threatened. If they stop receiving support they will most likely fail after a long time, the state will be destroyed, and genocide committed against its people.
Israel isn’t there yet, but it might be. And it caused this situation (as its own intelligence services have reported), though it’s also not responsible for the attacks. We can help both.
Villago Delenda Est
McHenry was a College Rethuglican. He’s always been vile ratfucking scum.
Villago Delenda Est
@MisterForkbeard: Israel has nukes. Ukraine does not.
Betty
@TaMara: Sending positive thoughts for your sister-in-law. Treatment has improved dramatically so there is every reason to be optimistic. Still it’s not a diagnosis you want to hear.
That is a lovely story about a lovely young man. Thanks for taking the time to share it.
WaterGirl
@Villago Delenda Est: It’s a good think i wasn’t drinking a beverage when I read this morning that there was talk of giving McHenry more powers and make him an acting Speaker.
Hell to the no, as the kids were saying 7 or more years ago. No idea what they are saying now! :-)
MisterForkbeard
@Geminid: This is actually a good point. Biden can hammer them on not getting their shit together and not be able to support Israel right now, and that’s a positive for everybody. Ukraine support can be bundled in or discussed behind the scenes for now.
But (as always) Republicans are the problem. Right now, the most useful level is Israel, as galling as that might be. But until they elect a Speaker then nothing gets through.
Jay
@WaterGirl:
I would have to go looking, for a link, but it’s part of the $6 billion leftover funding.
MisterForkbeard
@Villago Delenda Est: Definitely true, though Israeli nukes make me think of the Good Place joke:
We really, REALLY do not want Israel using nukes.
NotMax
FYI. According to National Hurricane Center’s advisory,
Villago Delenda Est
@MisterForkbeard: We don’t want ANYONE using nukes, but just sayin’. The Israeli cabinet seriously considered using nukes in ’73, when things in the Golan looked pretty grim.
Geminid
@MisterForkbeard: Hawley’s bullshitting and he knows it. Prime Minister Netanyahu might be in an existential crisis, but the country he led into this debacle is not. And we’re shipping them munitions already, without Congress acting.
MattF
@NotMax: Puerto Vallarta.
Roger Moore
@WaterGirl:
I’m sure some other Republicans are thinking about whether they can cheat their donors, too.
CaseyL
Just watched the video of Jaylen Ellis and my heaet grew three times bigger. What an excellent man. I hope he and Angel have many happy years together.
WaterGirl
@NotMax: I put one up 15 minutes ago, and not one comment on it yet.
CarolPW
@CaseyL: When I was diagnosed with my first breast cancer I had hair down to my knees. I decided if I was going to have chemo I would shave my hair off and donate it to a place that made wigs for cancer patients. I wasn’t interested in a wig for myself, but I know it matters a lot to many women (I suspect probably not so much now as it did in the 80s). It’s kind of ironic to make plans to donate hair for cancer wigs because you had cancer.
NotMax
@WaterGirl
Thanks. Really, commenting would be almost superfluous. It stands on its own.
Geminid
@Villago Delenda Est: The Times of Israel had a good article on that facet of the October War. As the authoelor reported, things were looking pretty rough on the srcond day of the war, and Defense Minister Moshe Dayan tried to start the process of authorizing use of some of Israel’s ten or so nuclear bombs. Prime Minister Golda was made of sterner stuff, and told Dayan that things might be bad but they weren’t that bad.
Sure enough, the IDF turned back the Syrians and stopped the Egyptians, and in a couple more days the IDF was invading them.
Viva BrisVegas
@WaterGirl: Evil begets evil.
Gaza is a creation of the Israeli government.
It’s the world’s largest ghetto. A pressure cooker that goes off now and then with Hamas or allies killing and maiming Israelis, at which time the IDF goes in to “mow the grass”, after which the Gazans get to bury their dead and rebuild their homes. It’s like some demented tennis match played with high explosives. A mutually beneficial game for both Hamas and Bibi.
Nothing justifies murderous Hamas, who are a pack of vultures feeding off the misery of Palestinians, but it’s Israel that has created this misery and Israel that will now add to it.
Hamas can’t be allowed to remain in Gaza, but to achieve that Gaza can’t continue as a neglected ghetto. If we learned anything from the aftermath of 911 surely it was that to get along the first step is to treat ordinary people as human beings and not targets of opportunity.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: I don’t disagree, but as for the Biden administration, I think the difference between Ukraine and Israel is more window-dressing than substance. The Republicans are another matter — the degree to which they’re supporting Putin not just tacitly but overtly kind of astounds me — and the media reaction is IMO due in major part to the difference in the Republicans’ reactions. Plus, Israel has enjoyed strong support they in the US media for a long time, and not unduly so, and there’s no reason to think it would have changed.
I’m happy to put up with lots of differences in the talk-talk part, as long as the substance doesn’t change. And the administration’s support for Ukraine appears not only not to have changed but to be very active.
CarolPW
@TaMara: So sorry for your SIL. Early and treatable is the best. The advances in breast cancer treatment are astonishing.
PSA – I found both of my cancers by breast exams. Neither showed up on a mammogram even when the radiologist knew where the lump was. You know your body, and sometimes you can get there before the equipment can.
kalakal
@Villago Delenda Est:
Israel using nukes on Gaza would be self assured destruction, using them on Hamas would devastate Israel as well as Gaza. It’s only about 40 miles from Tel Aviv. We really don’t want Israel ( or anyone else ) using nukes.
bbleh
@MisterForkbeard: Israel is not going to use nukes against Hamas, for crying out loud. And there are few countries I would expect have thought out the rationales and procedures for using nukes more carefully than Israel.
WaterGirl
@bbleh:
Really? I think very much unduly support.
Soprano2
@WaterGirl: If I were a Dem in the House I certainly wouldn’t agree to give McHenry more powers. I mean, he used the powers he has to kick people out of their offices for no reason other than pettiness! That shouldn’t be rewarded. Not that Dems will have much of a say about it, but still……
Citizen Alan
@WaterGirl: Eh, pretty typical for a Republican, I’d say. I’ve reached the point where I believe it is literally impossible to be a Republican with any moral or ethical character.
kalakal
@MisterForkbeard:
Arrant nonsense and a complete reversal of reality. What an odious twerp.
zhena gogolia
@kalakal: Josh Hawley.
wjca
I know you’re being sarcastic. But sarcasm is on the ropes these days. Witness the fact that his dishonest behavior likely will be copied by others — especially by those in his party who have not already invented it independently
kalakal
@zhena gogolia: You’re right. Wonder how Mr Forkbeard and I both missed it. I’ve corrected my quote
wjca
Just as soon as the correct the spelling of his name on all documents:
George Santos => George Soros
At that point, anything goes.
HumboldtBlue
If it weren’t so tawdry and of some real importance, George Santos would be an SNL character come to life.
George Santos just told us he will NOT resign and claims he didn’t see the new charges detailed in his new indictment, saying he was in the GOP conference meeting. He rushed into his office and slammed his door on us.
WaterGirl
@Soprano2: No, i think the Dems would have to vote to allow that. Or maybe not.
Geminid
@MisterForkbeard: Both these aid packages are important, but neither of them are urgent. There’s still money authorized for Ukraine, and I read that we’re shipping munitions to Israel already. The way I see it, if the legislation gets done by November 1st that’s soon enough.
WaterGirl
@zhena gogolia: I was confused about the point of your comment. if you had written this I would have understood right away.
JOSH HAWLEY
You’re not following your own standard! :-)
bbleh
@Viva BrisVegas: I would go further. Gaza is also the result of what imo has been a deliberate strategy on the part of the larger Arab world — the Saudis particularly, but now also non-Arab Iran — to use the Palestinians as a weapon against Israel, supporting them just enough to be viable but not enough to do more than suffer and occasionally lash out.
Just as a simple proposition, imo the West Bank — or some precise part of it — could be a thriving and reasonably prosperous nation *IF* the Saudis and others dumped a bunch of money into making it so (with of course the strict proviso that further militarism would cause the spigot to be turned off). But they don’t want to, because they’d prefer that the Palestinians were a thorn in Israel’s side.
IMO there is ruthless bad faith on all sides, and for the most part the Palestinians are caught in the middle. This is not to excuse the actions of the militant wing of Hamas in any way, of course, but only to observe that the cauldron is of others’ making.
NotMax
@zhena gogolia
Lord Haw-Hawley.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: I have been reading the opposite about Ukraine, that the funding IS urgent, and can’t even wait a coupe of weeks.
Neither of us has an inside source, but I have been reading that the Administration had concerns that there would be repercussions for Ukraine within a couple of weeks.
scav
@HumboldtBlue: If he doesn’t physically see the papers, does that mean the indictments aren’t really trulio really real? Take that libtards!!
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@Dan B:
Might as well include aid to the Chicago Bears
Geminid
@Soprano2: The Republicans can have Speaker with full Speaker powers as soon as they can get their act together. And if they can’t they should let Jeffries do the job. They’re acting like they’re some sort of special needs caucus and they’re not.
wjca
It may have something to do with the politicians involved having grown up in another world. One where you didn’t have to worry that, if you lied, somebody would pop up immediately with a video proving it. So they have a habit which is hard to break; especially since it worked well for them for so long.
I’d like to think it will prove less reflexive as we see politicians who grew up around pervasive cell phone videos. Although Santos proves that it won’t disappear entirely.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@WaterGirl:
“oh, ‘warning’, I thought you said, ‘warming'” – spokesperson”
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Well, I guess we’ll find out. Some further research may be in order here.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: I’m taking the longer view here. GIVEN the reality of the Balfour Declaration and the treatment of Jews not just by the Nazis but by most of the world (eg the British, and for a while the US) at the time, which led to the establishment of Israel (on land then recognized as Palestinian), the Israelis were fighting for survival for decades, the US support (in some ways belated) was an almost unalloyed good, and the persistence of that feeling in the media is not just understandable but appropriate imo.
HOWEVER, if you’re talking about the near term, in particular about the policies and practices of the Israeli government under Likud and now Netanyahu, then I agree. Their attitude is approaching Afrikaner South Africa levels imo. But support for Israel is too deeply embedded in the US for anybody to expect it to be less than knee-jerk.
HumboldtBlue
@scav:
Randy Rainbow already has the skit’s theme music!
WaterGirl
@Geminid: I totally agree. They can have a speaker with full powers as soon as they can elect a fucking speaker.
cain
@Viva BrisVegas:
100% this.
WaterGirl
@Baud: @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch:
You guys are cracking me up.
bbleh
@Geminid: this indeed. One does not become third in line to the presidency because one’s name was on a LIST drawn up in secret by a guy who was just tossed out of office thanks to the incoherence of his OWN PARTY.
You want a “Speaker pro tem” with real authority? Make it a bipartisan choice.
WaterGirl
@bbleh: re: your first paragraph. That’s how I felt about Israel, too, until they became that which had tried to destroy them.
re: your paragraph 2. It’s been obvious for too many years that “never again” means never again TO US.
They are no longer the country that was created for good reason to help right a terrible wrong. They have lost their way.
The we’re going to mow down and destroy Gaza for revenge was the end of it for me. The blood thirst is disgusting. I am breaking up with Israel until they start to deserve respect again.
cain
@bbleh:
This is exactly what I mean by crocodile tears in my comment earlier. These people use the Palestinians as a political football – but they don’t give a shit about them.
It pisses me off.
Also, holy shit – how can you treat them so low class – they are literally some of the most beautiful humans on earth.
ETA – haha – https://www.themideastbeast.com/new-poll-80-of-palestinian-men-are-attracted-to-israeli-women/
NutmegAgain
I’ve just got to note how really awful Mitch McConnell looks in that photo. As in, severe illness wasting away.
I like the idea of twining Ukraine funding with the other 2 countries.
db11
WaterGirl
@HumboldtBlue: Just watched that. It’s a good one.
Ohio Mom
@TaMara: One of my discoveries during my breast cancer adventure ten years ago was the site breastcancer.org.
It was started and is run by a doctor and has up-to-date and accurate information. And it has the most fabulous discussion boards.
Other than that, I’d be very careful using the internet to find out more about BC. There are many outdated, vague and just plain wrong sites that are best ignored.
Good luck to SIL, we are all pulling for her.
catclub
@Geminid:
If the legislation gets done by Nov 1st AND includes aid for Ukraine that is faster than I was expecting. I was expecting _maybe_ something when the present 45 day continuing resolution expires.
CarolPW
@cain:
Given the number of rapes of Israelis the last few days that isn’t very haha.
bbleh
@WaterGirl: fair enough. If the US were taken over by, say, the Trumpists not just for one term but for OVER TEN YEARS, I’d break up with the US too. (And not just because in some people’s eyes I deserve to be penned up somewhere if not exterminated.)
Citizen Alan
@bbleh: Bold of you to assume that after ten years of Trumpism, we wouldn’t all be in camps.
bookworm1398
In other news, India has announced the prosecution of booker prize winning author Arundhati Roy under sedition charges. It’s over a speech she made at a conference for The Committee for Release of Political Prisoners, you can guess the content.
YY_Sima Qian
McConnell is willing to pass aid to Israel, Ukraine & Taiwan in one package? I feel I am missing some dastardly underhanded maneuver.
RevRick
The history of the modern Middle East is a tragic mixture of religion, imperialism, fears and grievances. Even after the expulsion of the Jews from Jerusalem, after the revolt against Rome,there still remained a fairly substantial Jewish population in Galilee, which was a rich agricultural region, and a vital link in the defense of the Eastern boundary of the Roman Empire, which was succeeded by the Byzantines, and then a wave of Arab caliphates, and lastly the Ottoman Empire. When Christian Crusaders invaded the region in the 11th century, they didn’t hesitate to slaughter both Muslims, Jews and Orthodox Christians.
We tend to forget that the Ottoman Empire, at its height, was a multi-ethnic, multi-religious, multi-racial state, encompassing peoples from modern Algeria in the West to Armenia and Iraq in the East, the Balkans in the North to the Southwestern tip of the Arabian Peninsula in the South, ruling over an Empire that was only about 60% Muslim, the rest being Orthodox Christians and Jews. It was the rapid collapse of this Empire in the 19th and early 20th centuries that led to the Crimean War, the Balkan wars and eventually World War I. And postwar it led to carving up what remained with British and French promises to various peoples and clans resulting in the creation of the artificial states of Iraq, Jordan, and Lebanon, the elevation of the Saudi clan, and the mess of what they called Palestine (which previously had been part of the province of Syria, along with Lebanon and Jordan).
This region had enjoyed a substantial population growth in the latter two decades of the 19th century, continuing through the 20th, with Jews making up about 1/3 the population, and Arabs, both Muslim and Christian, most of the rest. After a period of increasing inter religious violence, the proposed solution was a partition of the region, with a Jewish state centered mostly on the area of Galilee in the north and the Negev in the south, an Arab region in between and the city of Jerusalem internationalized. That plan lasted for about thirty seconds after the Jewish state of Israel declared its independence, and Arab armies invaded to crush it. After the Jewish victory in ‘48, Jordan seized the West Bank and Jerusalem, Egypt established a protectorate over Gaza, and Israel ended up with expanded boundaries. In the Six-Day war in ‘67, Israel ended up with control of the West Bank and Gaza, and after the Yom Kippur War of ‘73, they added the Syrian Golan Heights. But now having a subject people left Israel with a quandary. There were already substantial displaced peoples living in refugee camps in Lebanon, Syria and Jordan. Adding them to the Palestinian population of the West Bank and Gaza, made granting them citizenship a seemingly suicidal option. So, in the name of security, they chose occupation. Which only kicked the can down the road and sporadic outbursts of violence and counter violence.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
@YY_Sima Qian:
Nah. Remember the aid is in the form of arms, making defense contractors a ton of money to which they kick some back to the gop as a party and to individuals (via family members they hire as consultants and lobbyists and through insider trading info).
Jeffery
Mitch looks dreadful.
Another Scott
@RevRick: I really appreciate the perspective you bring to this topic.
My back of the napkin (as opposed to front of the napkin??) take is that Begin and the other leaders, and the people who voted for them, planted the seeds for this war when they talked up “Judea and Sumaria” in the late 1970s and annexed the area, while keeping the people there out of political power. Occupation and second-class status cannot continue indefinitely without pushback.
Carter was right about calling it “apartheid”.
Maybe this was inevitable. Maybe the only real “solution” is for Israel to expel the people it doesn’t want (ala India/Pakistan, etc., etc.). But I don’t believe that is the best course (expulsion builds resentment as well).
I’m sympathetic to the idea that the Jewish people need a homeland that they can rule as they wish. I’m much more sympathetic to the idea that people must be able to choose their rulers and the policies of their government. Israel’s path is far away from that more important idea. In other words, because life isn’t ideal and life has to accept reality, it’s much more important – especially going forward – for Israel to be democratic than for it to be a “Jewish state”.
Of course, I’m just a dog on the Internet who doesn’t have a major stake in the outcome…
My $0.02.
Thanks again.
Cheers,
Scott.