Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

The rest of the comments were smacking Boebert like she was a piñata.

Everybody saw this coming.

Perhaps you mistook them for somebody who gives a damn.

Despite his magical powers, I don’t think Trump is thinking this through, to be honest.

Our job is not to persuade republicans but to defeat them.

Republicans would impeach Biden if he bit into a whole Kit Kat rather than breaking the sections apart.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself. We’re allowed to grow past that.

Fuck the extremist election deniers. What’s money for if not for keeping them out of office?

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ.

This fight is for everything.

Joe Biden can go out like FDR, not by dying in office, but by crushing the fascists.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Fundamental belief of white supremacy: white people are presumed innocent, minorities are presumed guilty.

They love authoritarianism, but only when they get to be the authoritarians.

Let me file that under fuck it.

“When somebody takes the time to draw up a playbook, they’re gonna use it.”

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

That’s my take and I am available for criticism at this time.

They think we are photo bombing their nice little lives.

I see no possible difficulties whatsoever with this fool-proof plan.

Roe isn’t about choice, it’s about freedom.

The most dangerous place for a black man in America is in a white man’s imagination.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trumpery / Trump Crime Cartel / And another lawyer pleads guilty for couping

And another lawyer pleads guilty for couping

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MSNBC reports that Ken Chesebro has also pleaded guilty to couping in Georgia.

Kenneth Chesebro on Friday pleaded guilty in the Georgia election interference case, the day after Sidney Powell did the same.

The lawyers charged in the sprawling racketeering case were set to be the first to face trial. Now, three of Donald Trump’s 18 co-defendants have pleaded guilty, following Scott Hall‘s plea last month.

 

Much like Powell, the plea deal requires full testimony but no jail time.

Reader Interactions

227Comments

  3. 3.

    JPL

    At least he pleaded to a felony.   Even just with probation there are real consequences.

    Rudy has to be swearing 🤬

  6. 6.

    Soprano2

    There’s nothing like the prospect of spending time in prison to concentrate the mind, is there? Especially when you’re older, you don’t want to spend your last years in a prison because of a man who has zero loyalty to you.

  8. 8.

    Butch

    IANAL.  Is it correct that the earlier plea deals tend to be more favorable than later ones?  Like an an incentive to cut a deal early rather than waiting?

  9. 9.

    twbrandt

    It’s been an excellent Friday so far. Jordan self-immolates even worse than before, another coup conspirator flips. Let’s keep it going!

  10. 10.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2:

    Especially when you’re older, you don’t want to spend your last years in a prison because of a man who has zero loyalty to you. 

    I don’t know why anybody ever thought he would be loyal. Just mind-blowing. I guess we all tell ourselves stories in order to live.

  11. 11.

    narya

    @Butch: Based on all of the lawyers I listen to on podcasts, yes. Once the prosecutors have the evidence of X AND testimony about X, I think that the ones who haven’t pled out are in incrementally deeper shit, because there is now more evidence against them.

  14. 14.

    Ruckus

    @Soprano2:

    I believe that they are recognizing that their loyalty only travels in one direction – and it isn’t towards them…..

    SFB/TFG has only ever had loyalty towards one person and it’s towards the one who owns that extremely ugly mug in the mirror that he stares at daily.

  15. 15.

    geg6

    Still only halfway through Friday.  What will be the afternoon news dump, just in time for the national news shows?

  16. 16.

    trollhattan

    Judge decides Chino is “not the boss of me” with “me” being California.

    A state judge ordered the Chino Valley Unified School District not to enact its policy of outing transgender students to their parents while a legal challenge to the regulation is pending. San Bernardino Superior Court

    Judge Michael Sachs issued his preliminary injunction Thursday. The decision was hailed by advocates, including Kristi Hirst, co-founder of Our Schools USA, who said in a statement that the ruling is a win for students, parents and teachers.

    “It’s embarrassing that this school board chooses to ignore the harm they are causing in Chino and in communities throughout California in order to pursue a political crusade,” Hirst said. Chino Valley was the first California school district to adopt a policy that forces teachers and other school staff to inform parents if a child is transgender or gender-nonconforming. The proposal was modeled after a California bill that would have imposed such a policy on every school in the state. That bill died in the Legislature.

    Since Chino Valley first considered the proposal last summer, several other school districts with conservative-controlled boards have enacted similar policies, including Rocklin Unified School District.

    California Attorney General Rob Bonta sued Chino Valley in August, after warning the district not to proceed with adopting the policy. Bonta’s office did not respond to The Bee’s request for comment by deadline.

    According to Courthouse News Service, at a hearing Thursday Sachs questioned the district’s statement that its policy is intended to create a supportive environment. “On the one hand, you have this policy that is expressed … as to bring the family, the school, the students together so that the students and parents have an avenue to address the mental health concerns and other concerns regarding their children,” Sachs said, “On the other hand, are board members at an open meeting voicing their opinions that seem to counter the stated purpose of the policy.”

    The judge said that while some transgender youths feel safe discussing their gender identity with their parents, others do not, according to the San Francisco Chronicle. “My job as a judge is to have their backs,” he said, according to the Chronicle.

    https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article280756170.html#storylink=cpy

  18. 18.

    JerTBear

    @Alison Rose:

    From the Washington Post’s article on this deal: “Chesebro pleaded guilty to a single felony count of conspiracy to file false documents, and faces a prison sentence of one to five years.”

    I think it’s customary for the judge to ask for sentencing guidelines before making a decision.

    I haven’t given up hope he’ll get to spend some time in the Big House.

    Well, apparently my hopes are dashed, and the WP article has it wrong. Phooey.

  19. 19.

    smith

    These are two conspirators I thought wouldn’t flip — both seemed to be true believers. Chesebro also, I think, is going to find it hard to give up his inflated self-regard as a “Constitutional scholar.” These plea deals against type lead me to think the case is really strong.

    One great advantage of this is that it clears the way for earlier trial dates for the rest of the gang, especially since I’d expect now a bunch of the small fish will rush to the exits.

  21. 21.

    hueyplong

    @narya: And, with defendant A having already agreed to give evidence, defendant B’s evidence isn’t as valuable anymore.

    But the part you said is usually more important, and certainly is from defendant B’s POV.

  22. 22.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    Powell is such a wackadoodle and the Cheese is such a arrogant dude-bro, I wouldn’t have thought they’d be sensible enough to push for an early trial so they could plead for the best deal. I really thought their deep personality flaws and cognitive distortions would continue to interfere with their ability to make good decisions.

  27. 27.

    Ruckus

    @narya:

    Exactly.

    That train only runs in one direction and once it’s headed at you, you can climb on board or be run over, those are the only two options. And remember that this train gathers speed as it accelerates in your direction and no matter how fast you run it will catch you sooner than later. You want earlier, it hurts far less because as that train gathers speed it’s also gathering up evidence and confidence.

  29. 29.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Dangerman: ​@zhena gogolia: Sorry baud isn’t here for these developments.
    Out shopping for pants?

    I prefer to believe Baud’s on a secret mission.​

  30. 30.

    Matt McIrvin

    Jury selection triggering a plea deal is exactly what I remember happening some of the times I got called in for jury duty (and sent home the same day, not having actually been seated).

  31. 31.

    Anoniminous

    Kos reporting

    big time Jordan supporter Troy Nehls of Texas says he’s going to vote for Trump in the next round because Jordan “does not have the votes.”

  32. 32.

    Doug R

    @pacem appellant:

    If it’s like Powell’s deal, they have to behave themselves for 6 years and if they go back on the deal, prison.

    Full testimony means more evidence against the “brains” of the operation.

  34. 34.

    hueyplong

    @Hoodie: You’re right in this particular case.  I was speaking in general about why the second person gets the worse deal.

    Chesebro is arrogant and wrong, but he’s not generally considered to be as much of a wackadoodle as Powell.

    I’m guessing Powell and Chesebro didn’t get the memo from Popehat about how it’s never RICO.*

     

     

    *Georgia RICO and federal RICO aren’t the same thing.

  35. 35.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @Suzanne: TIFG is a pretty good liar. Not good in the sense that he invents lies that are hard to disprove, but in the sense that he sounds completely and utterly convincing when he says something that isn’t true. I’m sure it’s because he has no conscience when it comes to veracity so he literally doesn’t care whether what comes out of his mouth is the truth. So when he said this time would be different and he’d totally have their backs he probably sounded convincing. Perusal of his track record should have set them straight but we’re not dealing with the sharpest tools in the drawer here.

  36. 36.

    LAO

    @Matt McIrvin: I guarantee you that the plea negotiations began weeks ago and chesebro has had multiple proffer sessions in an effort to obtain this cooperation agreement.

    But yeah, plea deals on the eve of trial are pretty common.

  39. 39.

    LAO

    @Alison Rose: Another way of looking at these two lawyer cooperation agreements is that they may not be facing jail time (if they comply with the terms of the cooperation agreements) is that effectively their lives are ruined. I can live with that.

  41. 41.

    piratedan

    is hoping that our esteemed judiciary jackaltariat can weigh in on these thoughts…

    Is the testimony that is being secured in Georgia have any bearing on cases in progress (Michigan) or could be initiated in other states where the same bullshit tactics were attempted (i.e. Arizona, Nevada, New Mexico, Pennsylvania and Wisconsin)?

    working under the idea that a whole boatload of intermediate political MAGA types could suddenly be exposed as part of the national coup plans get revealed.

  42. 42.

    Ruckus

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    They obviously don’t make many good decisions but if you give a person who has really any amount of ability towards logical thinking 2 options, one of which is far worse than the other, and the concept and reality that these are the ONLY 2 options, they can usually make the the better decision.

    It’s likely why they wanted to be out in front of and separate from the others. Separating themselves gave them better options. Like the one they have taken. They may not have seen this when they separated from the group, it may have been only that they might have thought that separate is better than being part of a conspiracy. Even if they were part of it.

  43. 43.

    Matt McIrvin

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?: Trump either has no stable mental concept of truth, or does a convincing imitation of this. Functionally, everything he says is what he believes. That’s why people consistently rate him higher for honesty and trustworthiness than actually honest politicians–that attitude is powerfully convincing to a certain type of person, an authoritarian follower.

  44. 44.

    hueyplong

    @piratedan: Different investigations, different prosecutors, different states.  The main immediate effect is likely to be the level of seriousness with which the defendants (or possible defendants) elsewhere are now viewing the legal threat.

    I haven’t seen anything indicating whether or not Chesebro and Powell have obligated themselves to cooperate elsewhere.  Possibly not at all, though you’d suspect their roles vis-a-vis Trump were very similar in each state.

    Trump staying quiet about these things is a blaringly loud comment unto itself.  His colon isn’t doing too well.  I “hearby” (thereby making it official) invoke efgoldman.

  46. 46.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?:

    TIFG is a pretty good liar. Not good in the sense that he invents lies that are hard to disprove, but in the sense that he sounds completely and utterly convincing when he says something that isn’t true. I’m sure it’s because he has no conscience when it comes to veracity so he literally doesn’t care whether what comes out of his mouth is the truth.

    Hardcore narcissists like Trump have no concept of objective truth. The “truth” is whatever they happen to believe at the moment and a minute later the “truth” can be something completely different.* (And yes, it’s something that they sincerely believe, as much as they’re sincere about anything.) It’s one of the things that makes dealing with them particularly maddening.

    *In a sense, narcissists’ behavior is pretty predictable, because their entire sets of motivation is: gathering adoration and avoiding being seen as shameful. They’re no more capable of feeling shame than a dog is after chewing your favorite shoes, but like the dog, they understand when others think they did something bad/shameful. So the “truth” at any given moment is whatever serves those needs.

    Plus obviously he’s got a con artist’s view of “truth” being whatever is useful at the moment to advance the con.

  49. 49.

    teezyskeezy

    @pacem appellant: Part of me fears they’ll keep letting them off all the way to the top.  The other part of me hopes like hell the next plea deal still includes jail time…or they just stop offering deals.

  50. 50.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @narya:

    From here on out, each plea deal will be harsher for each defendant – even if they chose to fold up right now, the offers to ringleaders like Meadows and Giuliani will likely include actual, meaningful jail time.

  51. 51.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne: The target audience isn’t you–it’s the type of person whose gauge of trustworthiness is whether somebody is saying something with absolute conviction.

    The opposite of, say, a scientist. Scientists are utterly unconvincing when they get into public “debates” over things like evolution vs. creationism, because scientists talking to other scientists signal trustworthiness by showing they’ve considered and quantified every possible objection or source of uncertainty in their claims; whereas to the audience they’re talking to, these are “weasel words” that show that you don’t really believe what you’re saying.

  52. 52.

    Deputinize Eurasia from the Kuriles to St Petersburg

    @smith:

    Cheesey-bro is destined to go the Colson route, I suspect.  He’s got the sniveling look of it.

  54. 54.

    Ishiyama

    Lawyers are easy targets for prosecutors, because they usually enjoy such a comfortable sense of immunity from the law. Criminal convictions happen to other people. So I expect the lawyers to consult their own self-interest, ahead of all other concerns. No jail, probation, and a chance for a clean record? Of course they will bite.

  55. 55.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    Judge Engoron has asked Trump’s lawyers why he shouldn’t throw Trump in jail for violating the gag order about not vilifying his clerk. Apparently Trump deleted that on Truth Social but not on his web site. Trump’s attorney says it’s an oversight. Judge says something like come back in an hour and tell me more.

    I’d post the link but it’s on twitter and someone will tell me I’m immoral.

  56. 56.

    narya

    Also, if I understand correctly, part of the deal means that if you renege on the testimony in some way, then the deal is off the table again. Also also too, I suspect that part of what made this happen is that it’s in Georgia: if they do get convicted, TIFG can’t pardon them, plus they’d be doing time in a state prison. Yeah, their lives and livelihoods are ruined, but they’re also not in prison.

  59. 59.

    WaterGirl

    @LAO: They announced, as recently as yesterday, that Cheese bro had refused a deal.

    I have been wondering whether the offer wasn’t “probation” until yesterday.

  60. 60.

    Martin

    @pacem appellant: I don’t think it is. They’re going to lose their ability to practice law. They no longer present a threat to the country.

    Put another way, Trump can find substitutes for these idiots to keep criming, but these idiots can’t find a substitute for Trump, so these sentences, light as they are, keep the task laser focused on the only party that really matters here – Trump.

    Because right now, this can repeat. And the only way it doesn’t repeat, is if she can hold him accountable.

  61. 61.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @LAO: I don’t agree that Powell’s life is ruined. She’s 68. She just gets to retire. Granted, she’ll have to legally change her name and move someplace with few MAGAs because they will want to kill her. But really, who isn’t a little worried about being murdered by a MAGA?

  62. 62.

    Suzanne

    @Matt McIrvin:

    The target audience isn’t you–it’s the type of person whose gauge of trustworthiness is whether somebody is saying something with absolute conviction. 

    But hasn’t everyone encountered a scammer before?! That’s the thing that I find difficult to grasp. It’s such a common occurrence.

  64. 64.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: I think it’s not only the plea deal, but GA has a first offender law that seems to work pretty hard to keep people out of prison. That’s a good thing, that I’ll assume is not uniformly applied, but should be. We should all be in favor of bail and sentencing reform, and that should apply here too. But these two need to have their law licenses stripped, which I assume will happen – pleading guilty to a felony for an act while acting as a lawyer should make that an easy case.

  67. 67.

    Martin

    @Suzanne: A LOT of people can’t tell scammers from non-scammers. Put another way, they continue to be scammers because it works. Not on everyone, but on enough people to make it worthwhile.

  69. 69.

    LAO

    @WaterGirl: IMO, the media is doing a real disservice here. The Powell and Chesebro deals aren’t technically plea deals, although they do result in pleas. The agreements are cooperation agreements which require the defendants enter guilty pleas. In exchange for the evidence these defendants can and will provide, the state of Georgia gives up seeking jail time. If the defendants fail to cooperate to the satisfaction of the state of Georgia, the guilty plea can’t be revoked and jail time is back on the table.

    I was watching Andrea Mitchell earlier and her focus on the lack of jail time really enraged me. The big take away is the cooperation and she just couldn’t grasp it.

  71. 71.

    cain

    @Sister Golden Bear:

    Hardcore narcissists like Trump have no concept of objective truth. The “truth” is whatever they happen to believe at the moment and a minute later the “truth” can be something completely different.* (And yes, it’s something that they sincerely believe, as much as they’re sincere about anything.) It’s one of the things that makes dealing with them particularly maddening.

    This sounds like what Rumsfeld said back in the early 2000s.

  72. 72.

    geg6

    @Suzanne:

    And some large number of people fall for the scammers.  HBO just had a multi-episode doc about telemarketing and the number of suckers that get pulled in over and over and over is astonishing.  I could sniff them out in two words but they made millions scamming people over the phone, many of them multiple times.  It’s sad and infuriating but the victims are often perfectly willing to be scammed.  Don’t know how you fix that.

  73. 73.

    hueyplong

    @LAO: It’s a little less time consuming to document the things Andrea Mitchell DOES get.  Other than an undeserved check.

  75. 75.

    Juju

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: She may be a wackadoodle, but Trump was prepared to appoint her special council to investigate the stolen 2020 election. That’s probably one of her biggest values as to her testimony, especially against Trump, but I’m not an attorney so take that however you choose.

  76. 76.

    bbleh

    I can hear from here the merry tinkling of tiny ketchup bottles smashing against the walls of Bedminster.

  77. 77.

    Matt McIrvin

    @LAO: What is the distinction–the nature of the charges vs. the nature of the punishment (and the strings on that)?

  78. 78.

    Suzanne

    @geg6:

    It’s sad and infuriating but the victims are often perfectly willing to be scammed.  Don’t know how you fix that. 

    This is the kind of thing that blows my mind.

  79. 79.

    Martin

    @Hoodie: They’re reinforcing different aspects of the conspiracy. And I think Willis already has cooperation from someone who was on the poll worker harassment campaign, filling in a different aspect. I think that’s the part that’s important here – a conspiracy is a quilt of different related crimes, and each of these people is a different square of that quilt. 

    I’m guessing everyone but Rudy and Trump will eventually plea out.

  80. 80.

    Scout211

    In the meantime, Eastman is still defending his law license at the California bar hearings.  What is this, day 1000? LOL.

    I am wondering if he will take a plea deal in Fulton County if he is disbarred in California.  But who knows, this disbarment hearing could go on for a long time.  It could be too late by the time that happens.

    The latest from Bloomberg Law

    John Eastman defended his urging Vice President Mike Pence to delay certifying electors in the 2020 presidential election, telling a California State Bar Court judge Tuesday that he was in constitutional terms “petitioning an officer of the government for redress of rather serious grievances.”

    Eastman is charged with 11 counts of violating moral turpitude, ethics rules, and state law regulating lawyer conduct related to memos he wrote to Trump campaign officials and for remarks leading up to the Jan. 6 raid on the US Capitol. He again took the stand in the seventh week of trial. The state bar seeks to have the former Chapman University law dean disbarred.

    Eastman, who was hired by the Trump campaign, said he was invited to a Jan. 5, 2020, meeting at the White House. That was after he wrote two memos outlining potential scenarios where slates of electors could be rejected, including unproven allegations of election misconduct and fraud. Those memos “were merely for internal discussion purposes with a couple of members of the team with whom I was working,” he said.

    . . .

    The bar rested its case and now the defense is laying out the argument that Eastman’s actions were lawful and based on his scholarly understanding of the US Constitution and facts as presented to him.

    The trial originally scheduled for eight days has stretched this week into 24 days, with additional days possible for closing arguments. State Bar Court Judge Yvette Roland said she can allow up to 21 days for post-trial briefing. The judge will issue her decision within 90 days under the Rules of Procedure of the State Bar of California. Eastman can appeal the ruling to the Hearing Department, which acts as an appellate court.

    The ultimate decision on Eastman’s law license rests with the California Supreme Court, which oversees attorney discipline and admission.

    Still to testify are character witnesses, including former circuit Judge Janice Rogers Brown, now a fellow at University of California Berkeley.

  81. 81.

    Chris Johnson

    @Martin: No, they won’t get the chance. Chesebro might be the last, I’m not sure how many conspirators are more important than him.

  82. 82.

    Martin

    @Suzanne: People on the spectrum fall for scammers all the time. I have an uncle with Aspergers and he falls for every scammer that comes along despite our efforts to train him to never respond to these people. People with dementia do as well. Bipolar people are somewhat at risk, especially in their manic phase.

    You protect them by making this stuff illegal, which this country will never do.

  83. 83.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Suzanne: I think a lot of people want the world to be simple, they want magic to be real, they want good guys and bad guys to be easily identifiable, they want to know they’re already on the side of good in all things, and they want someone to reassure them of all of this without hesitation or qualification. If you find these people and have no scruples you can easily pick their pockets.

  85. 85.

    gene108

    I wonder if anybody who’s getting their lawyer paid from Trump has pleaded guilty?

    The fact Trump’s paying lawyer bills for mooks that could testify against him gets into ethical issues on who those lawyers actually represent.

  86. 86.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @LAO: Yes, the guilty plea is on the books now no matter what happens.  They only get probation if they cooperate to the satisfaction of the prosecution.  Prison time is still hanging over their heads.

  87. 87.

    HumboldtBlue

    @trollhattan: ​ 

    That ruling is great for California, but kids across the country are gonna suffer under school boards run by these hateful fucks, thank goodness this state came to its senses this century and put the good guys in charge permanently.

  89. 89.

    Martin

    @Chris Johnson: I think Willis wants one defendant. It makes her case so much easier if it’s just one defendant with 18 additional witnesses.

    The reason these two got deals is the speedier trial. There hasn’t been much need to focus on the other 16, but that changes today. Having Ellis reiterating what Powell says undermines the ability of Trumps attorneys to discredit them. Willis wants Trump – maybe Rudy. The lawyers especially are expendable here – they’ll all lose their license, they’ll all be neutralized by the bar.

  92. 92.

    JPL

    Imagine the emails and texts that Willis’ office now has.    It’s going to be a busy weekend for the staff.

  93. 93.

    Anoniminous

    The Ignorant Hick White People’s Party is having a secret ballot to see if they will stick with Jordan.

  94. 94.

    hueyplong

    If you’re Trump, you’re pretty worried about how weak and unreliable Rudy is, and how the decline seems to be accelerating.  If this were a movie, Trump would have him whacked.

    If you’re familiar with the movie Casino, you can pretty easily imagine the scene in a back room of the courthouse in which each mobster defendant says that Alan King’s character won’t talk, then they look to Remo who says, “Why take a chance?”

    At least, that’s how I see it.

    Trumpy Republicans are nothing more than two-bit wannabe gangsters.

  96. 96.

    Martin

    @HumboldtBlue: At a minimum, once a child reaches the age of medical consent, outing them should be a crime for violating their rights. The age of medical consent in CA is 12.

  98. 98.

    wjca

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: I really thought their deep personality flaws and cognitive distortions would continue to interfere with their ability to make good decisions.

    Maybe they, unlike someone else we could mention, don’t have a track record for stiffing their lawyers.  And are willing to take legal advice when they get it.

  100. 100.

    E.

    @Martin: She doesn’t need 18 witnesses saying the same thing.

    Trump and Rudy are not the only people who matter here. Trump and his future copycats need people to do their bidding and our country needs those future people to remember that they too can pay a hefty price for criming.

  101. 101.

    gene108

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    Powell is such a wackadoodle and the Cheese is such a arrogant dude-bro, I wouldn’t have thought they’d be sensible enough to push for an early trial so they could plead for the best deal. I really thought their deep personality flaws and cognitive distortions would continue to interfere with their ability to make good decisions.

    Trump’s not paying their legal bills. I don’t think he’s paying the legal bills for anyone in the GA case, unlike what he did for people testifying to the J6 Committee and the two criminal Federal cases.

  102. 102.

    West of the Rockies

    Rudy doesn’t look like a guy who is probably going to be vertical and dangerous is ten years.  I would prefer the younger Chesboro be the one facing consequences, specifically losing his license to practice law.  Take away his primary implement of societal destruction.

  103. 103.

    Alison Rose

    Just reading the NYT article about Chesebro’s plea and he also had to write a letter of apology, like Powell. Which made me laugh because that was part of my punishment when I was arrested for shoplifting at 14. You know…similar crimes, similar penalties! Of course, I didn’t get a 5k fine or years of probation.

  104. 104.

    A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)

    @Matt McIrvin: Me too, a couple of times. Apparently there is something about actually being about to start the trial that seriously sobers defendants up (quite understandably).

  105. 105.

    Juju

    @hueyplong: Beats me. I do know she tried to raise money and didn’t get more than a few weeks worth for legal representation. She would have good reason to cooperate.

  107. 107.

    Anoniminous

    Jordan lost the secret ballot by, it seems, a lot.He’s no longer their nominee​
    eta: Apparently the vote was 86 for Jordan, 112 against.​

  108. 108.

    LAO

    @Matt McIrvin: A plea agreement is just an agreement between the prosecutor and defendant as to what charge or count(s) a defendant will admit to committing with an expected sentencing range. Sentence is usually up to a judge but ordinarily judges will honor the agreement.

    A cooperation agreement, also includes the charges/counts a defendant agrees to plead guilty to but requires a defendant to fully cooperate and assist the prosecution in prosecuting other co-defendants, including testimony. The prosecution must be satisfied with the defendant’s assistance (in the Feds it’s called “substantial assistance”) in order for the defendant to receive the promised sentence. If the defendant fails to comply, he/she is not entitled to the promised sentence.

  109. 109.

    MattF

    So many people have underestimated Willis… Why is that, you think… hmm? There’s a mystery to contemplate.

  110. 110.

    Mike in NC

    According to the Washington Post, most of the Republicans who’ve voted against Gym are getting death threats. How Trumpy is that?

  111. 111.

    hueyplong

    @West of the Rockies: Be heartened by the fact that he’s pleading to a felony.  The felony/misdemeanor distinction matters in many jurisdictions when it comes to having your ticket punched as a lawyer.

  112. 112.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​ 

    It’s also not up to a judge to rescind a law license, is it? Wouldn’t that be left up to the bar they are registered with, wouldn’t it?

  115. 115.

    Brachiator

    @LAO:

    IMO, the media is doing a real disservice here. The Powell and Chesebro deals aren’t technically plea deals, although they do result in pleas. The agreements are cooperation agreements which require the defendants enter guilty pleas. In exchange for the evidence these defendants can and will provide, the state of Georgia gives up seeking jail time. If the defendants fail to cooperate to the satisfaction of the state of Georgia, the guilty plea can’t be revoked and jail time is back on the table.

    This is interesting. Thanks for the clarification.

    It amazes me that the media companies often have legal experts on, but they are worthless if they cannot accurately explain what is happening at Trump’s various trials.

    ETA. I guess it’s similar to the “military experts” who don’t know squat.

  116. 116.

    hueyplong

    @Mike in NC: This is an important issue.  It seems like the holdouts don’t currently respect the death threats.  Surely Jordan realizes the only way to make these threats credible is actually to carry through at least once.

  117. 117.

    Alison Rose

    From NYT live blog:

    Jim Jordan has lost an up or down vote in conference, several members say.

    Jordan addressed lawmakers afterward and was “very gracious,” Representative Pat Fallon of Texas said.

    There will be another candidate forum on Monday night, says Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene of Georgia.

    At first glance, when I saw her name, I thought SHE was the new nominee and I was like JESUS GOD. Whew.

  118. 118.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Martin:

    Willis wants Trump – maybe Rudy.

    I’ve always figured that even if Trump is too powerful a figure to do a day of prison time, if they can put Rudy Giuliani behind bars, I’ll take some satisfaction from that.

  119. 119.

    HumboldtBlue

    @trollhattan: ​

    That pretty much sums it up.​
     

    More legal news about the shittiest people in the world:

    NEW YORK, Oct 19 (Reuters) – Conspiracy theorist Alex Jones cannot use his personal bankruptcy to escape paying at least $1.1 billion in defamation damages stemming from his repeated lies about the 2012 Sandy Hook elementary school massacre, a U.S. bankruptcy judge ruled Thursday.

    Bankruptcy can be used to wipe out debts and legal judgments, but not if they result from “willful or malicious injury” caused by the debtor, according to a decision by U.S. Bankruptcy Judge Christopher Lopez in Houston, Texas.

  120. 120.

    Jeffro

    OT but well worth the time: Jamelle Bouie on The Deep Roots of Republican Dysfunction

    “…as the historian Geoffrey Kabaservice has observed, “The conversion of one of America’s two major parties into an ideological vehicle” is a “phenomenon without precedent in American history.”

    It is the absence of any other aim but the promotion of conservative ideology — by any means necessary, up to and including the destruction of democratic institutions and the imposition of minority rule — that makes this particular permutation of the Republican Party unique. It helps explain, in turn, the dysfunction of the past decade.

    If the goal is to promote conservative ideology, then what matters for Republican politicians is how well they adhere to and promote conservatism. The key issue for conservative voters and conservative media isn’t whether a Republican politician can pass legislation or manage a government or bridge political divides; the key question is whether a Republican politician is sufficiently committed to the ideology, whatever that means in the moment. And if conservatism means aggrieving your enemies, then the obvious choice for the nation’s highest office is the man who hates the most, regardless of what he believes.

    Worse, because the institutions of American democracy give a significant advantage to the current Republican coalition, there’s also no external force pushing Republican politicians away from their most rigid extremes. Just the opposite: There is a whole infrastructure of ideologically motivated money and media that works to push Republican voters and politicians farther to the right.

    It is not simply that the Republican Party has politicians like Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene. It’s that the Republican Party is practically engineered to produce politicians like Jim Jordan and Matt Gaetz and Marjorie Taylor Greene. And there’s no brake — no emergency off-switch — that might slow or stop the car. The one thing that might get the Republican Party back on the rails is a major and unanticipated shift in the structure of American politics that forces it to adapt to new voters, new constituencies and new conditions.

    It’s hard to imagine what that might be. It can’t come soon enough.

    We would be doing their party a favor if we expanded the House, un-gerrymandered the nation’s Congressional districts, and outlawed Fox News.

  121. 121.

    Wapiti

    @geg6: It’s sad and infuriating but the victims are often perfectly willing to be scammed.

    Judging from the mail I screen for my elderly father and my (dearly departed) in-laws, I expect a big fraction of the victims are elderly. The line between charity appeals and various offers from seemingly reputable companies and scams is tenuous. They’re all looking for marks.

  124. 124.

    Ken

    @H.E.Wolf: I prefer to believe Baud’s on a secret mission.​

    During which he’s persuaded Powell and Chesebro to turn state’s evidence? Or is he “advising” Jordan and driving the man to destroy his political career with a doomed quest for the speakership?

    Truly, Baud leads nearly as interesting a life as George Santos.

  126. 126.

    Martin

    @Anoniminous: That the party would back a candidate because they got 109 votes in a race where you need 217 to win and you are guaranteed to not get the Democrats 212 is peak fucking GOP.

    If your ‘candidate’ doesn’t have 217 in that room, you don’t have a candidate. You have a loser.

    This will not be resolved before the budget deal expires, and I think Adam stated it even more clearly than I did – because the holdouts want the government shut down, and so they’ll either vote for a speaker who will do that (Jordan) or they’ll refuse to vote for a speaker who won’t do that until such time as the government is shut down.

    Shutting down the government is the goal. Not having a speaker makes that task trivial. 

  128. 128.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Anoniminous:

    86 for Jordan, 112 against

    Almost exactly what he got running against Scalise.  So, a good 90 Republicans weren’t really voting for him, they were just voting for whoever was the front runner.  His actual support never grew.

  130. 130.

    NoraLenderbee

    I want these probation agreements to include mandatory weekly urine testing at a location where they have to wait in line with all the other probationers and parolees.

  131. 131.

    Anoniminous

    @Martin: ​
     
    We’ve been heading here since Little Ronnie RayGuns said, “the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help.”

    Anytime the few non-bat-shit-insane Republicans decide to Grow the Fuck Up the problem is resolved. When or If that happens …

    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

  133. 133.

    West of the Rockies

    @Alison Rose:

    I truly hope Jordan feels pain from this:  humiliation, deep embarrassment.  He was braying that “America wants him as leader.”

    Nope, chump.  It does not.

  135. 135.

    Ken

    @Alison Rose:

    Jordan addressed lawmakers afterward and was “very gracious,” Representative Pat Fallon of Texas said.

    Gracious in the normal sense, in the Republican caucus sense, or in the Jim Jordan sense?  Because the last could mean a thirty-minute screaming tirade during which he threatened to have all the “no” voters killed.

  137. 137.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Anoniminous:

    “the nine most terrifying words in the English language are: I’m from the Government, and I’m here to help.

    Okay, but in the time and place he said it, that statement had a specific meaning.  It was terrifying because the government was there to help Those People.  He was speaking to people who were thinking about desegregation.

    In a way, it was genius.  He managed to unite the kleptocrats and the bigots with one common agreement:  That the federal government should never be The Boss Of Me.

  138. 138.

    Scout211

    @Alison Rose: There will be another candidate forum on Monday night

    What is a “candidate forum” for a Speaker election? A town hall? A debate? A beauty contest? I am so confused . . .

  139. 139.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Martin: But there are almost certainly enough Republicans who know a shutdown would be bad for them that if you add those to the Democrats, you have a majority. (We’re talking about a minimum of 5 to 7 people.)

    So what the Freedom Caucus wants isn’t the interesting question here. It’s what that little sliver of least-crazy Republicans will settle for. Probably not “Hakeem Jeffries as Speaker”. But the Democrats aren’t going to just give them everything they want, not without the heat going up some more.

  142. 142.

    CaseyL

    I was sure Jordan would get the nod, because he is the Worst Possible Person in the world to be Speaker, which is just what the GOP wants: people who should never be within a parsec of having power, having power.

    I am very, very happy to have been wrong.  Though I do wonder what hairball of corruption, stupidity, and malice they’ll hawk up next as their nominee.

  144. 144.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @HumboldtBlue: Surrendering a license can be a condition of a plea deal.  Here, it seems the the they are getting the court to agree that their crimes were not crimes of moral turpitude. This gives them a better chance of keeping their licenses or getting them back sooner.

  146. 146.

    H.E.Wolf

    @Ken: ​

    @H.E.Wolf: I prefer to believe Baud’s on a secret mission.​

    During which he’s persuaded Powell and Chesebro to turn state’s evidence? Or is he “advising” Jordan and driving the man to destroy his political career with a doomed quest for the speakership?
    Truly, Baud leads nearly as interesting a life as George Santos.

     Reminds me of the essay by Slacktivist, postulating that on certain Friday the 13ths, Frederick Douglass reappears and… takes action.
    https://www.patheos.com/blogs/slacktivist/2012/04/04/friday-the-13th-a-ghost-story/

    Incidentally, Baud was away from the blog this past Friday the 13th! Perhaps he and Frederick Douglass are teaming up.

  147. 147.

    gene108

    @Matt McIrvin:

    Trump either has no stable mental concept of truth, or does a convincing imitation of this. Functionally, everything he says is what he believes. That’s why people consistently rate him higher for honesty and trustworthiness than actually honest politicians–that attitude is powerfully convincing to a certain type of person, an authoritarian follower.

    His anger, bitterness, and hate are 100% genuine.

    Some politicians try to convince you “they care”, and they go things “to help you”, and not just because it’s a nice stepping stone in their careers.

    Trump doesn’t do this. He’s open about punishing people, cities, and states that didn’t vote for him, for example. There’s no lie in this vindictive behavior. I think this is why people find him authentic.

  149. 149.

    Warblewarble

    Sing, sing  the hills are alive with the sound of  music. Lesson one , do not fuck with  Fani Willis.

  150. 150.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Frankensteinbeck:

    In a way, it was genius.  He managed to unite the kleptocrats and the bigots with one common agreement:  That the federal government should never be The Boss Of Me.

    The other brilliant thing about it is that because it’s opposed to “the government”, it sounds anti-authoritarian even if the consequences of following it are the opposite. Liberals never really wanted to be the Party of Big Government–it’s not as if they actually just wanted to control people for its own sake. That’s the opposite of what the word “liberal” means. But Reagan managed to stick them with that label.

    I always thought it was amazing that these people who wanted to make everything they thought was weird illegal could turn around and in the next sentence say they were getting Big Government off your back.

  152. 152.

    Anoniminous

    @Frankensteinbeck: ​
     

    It was the inevitable result of the Southern Strategy. Southern White society and culture is deeply and historically racist. LBJ knew it. That’s why he said, “we’ve lost the South for a generation” when he signed the Civil Rights Act.

  153. 153.

    Paul in KY

    @geg6: They tend to be sad, lonely, gullible & dim.  Lot’s of people out there like that. Dementia plays a big part in the older getting to ‘gullible’ and ‘dim’.

  154. 154.

    hueyplong

    Maybe they’ll play the oldies and try McCarthy again, telling the 8 that their only way out of the doghouse is to do the “right” thing this time.  They only have to convince 4 of them, which is a much smaller hill to climb than what Jordan was facing.

    After all, what McCarthy was at least trying to do wasn’t all that different from what Trump wanted.  He assumed the Dems would reject his deal and Trump would get his shutdown, which he for some reason may have thought would preclude trial of his federal cases.

    One thing we have going for us is that the Republicans may be cunning, but most of them aren’t very smart.

  155. 155.

    Paul in KY

    @Scout211: Janice Rogers Brown is a complete nutwad. It makes me gag that she’s at Berkeley. Hopefully her car gets keyed every so often…

  156. 156.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I always thought it was amazing that these people who wanted to make everything they thought was weird illegal could turn around and in the next sentence say they were getting Big Government off your back.

    That one is easy for me.  It works because it’s how the lived experience of the voters they’re talking to works.  Republicans are stopping the government from stopping you from hurting people.  Thus, they’re shrinking government.  Nasty Big Government has been telling you that you can’t refuse to serve darkies and will come investigate and maybe throw you in jail if you beat a queer to death.  I am just old enough to remember those being specifically things the federal government was doing that made conservatives resent it.

  157. 157.

    mrmoshpotato

    @gene108:

    He’s open about punishing people, cities, and states that didn’t vote for him, for example.

    “How stupid are the people if Iowa?”

    Well, the Rethuglican morons were stupid enough to vote for a conman in the general election.”

  158. 158.

    karen marie

    @Anoniminous:

    A proffer in this context is the term for a prosecutor telling the court and defendant what specific evidence they have that proves the elements of the crime if the case went to trial. In order for a judge to accept a plea, the defendant has to say they heard the proffer and agree that they committed those acts and are in fact guilty.

  161. 161.

    wjca

    @gene108:  I don’t think he’s paying the legal bills for anyone in the GA case, unlike what he did for people testifying to the J6 Committee and the two criminal Federal cases.

    Somehow, that seems exceptionally stupid.  Assuming (as he seems to) that he gets elected in 2024, he can deal with the Federal cases.  (I’m not sure that “self-pardon” is a thing.  But then IANAL.)

    But the Georgia case is beyond his reach.  Which would seem to make it the place that really warrants trying to keep control, ssabotage potential plea deals, etc.

  163. 163.

    C Stars

    @CaseyL: Though I do wonder what hairball of corruption, stupidity, and malice they’ll hawk up next as their nominee.

    It could be any one of the GOP representatives, really. Nice turn of phrase.

  164. 164.

    Shalimar

    @Matt McIrvin: You know it will never be just 5 people agreeing with Democrats on a compromise candidate.   That would basically be resigning from the party for the 5.  None of them have the guts for that.

    When they finally accept that they need to compromise to avoid a shutdown that will hurt their own re-election prospects, it will be more like 120-150 Republicans who vote for it so they have strength in numbers.

  167. 167.

    C Stars

    @trollhattan:  “On the other hand, are board members at an open meeting voicing their opinions that seem to counter the stated purpose of the policy.”

    I feel like this judge has gotten to the crux of all these anti-trans kids laws. They claim to be concerned for the health of trans kids, and then turn around and say the ugliest and most awful things about trans people. It’s an obvious moral shell game.

  168. 168.

    LAO

    @karen marie: In NY, what you describe is called a “reverse proffer” and a proffer is the opposite, the defendant provides a detailed account of his/her criminal conduct and the conduct of his/her co-defendants in the hopes of obtaining a cooperation agreement.

  170. 170.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @wjca: ​

    Somehow, that seems exceptionally stupid.

    The difference, so lawyers have told me, is that this is a RICO case. In RICO paying for the other defendants’ lawyers is strong evidence of conspiracy by itself. You’re declaring that, yes, you are a group united in common purpose.

  171. 171.

    Citizen Alan

    @geg6: That is the essence of MAGA. There is nothing persuasive about Shitgibbon’s persona. No person who ever thinks about him critically and objectively could ever be deceived by him for a second. He simply tells lies that the MAGA crowd desperately wishes to believe true. And if he didn’t tell those particular lies, they would seek out someone else who did.

  172. 172.

    karen marie

     

    @piratedan: If called as a witness in another case, their testimony can be impeached if it differs from what they’d testified to previously. It also opens them to possible perjury.

     

    @hueyplong: They don’t have to agree to cooperate to be subpoenaed to testify. But they’re locked into what they’ve testified to previously.

  173. 173.

    wjca

    @MattF: So many people have underestimated Willis… Why is that, you think… hmm? There’s a mystery to contemplate.

    Because being underestimated is her superpower!

    (That’s my story, and I’m sticking to it.)

  177. 177.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: I wonder how many of these people are in the early stages of some type of dementia. I could see that kind of person getting easily sucked into something like that over and over, because it affects your frontal lobe reasoning skills. I’m lucky that my husband never answers the phone unless it’s someone he knows.

  178. 178.

    Citizen Alan

    @Scout211:

    Judge Janice Rogers Brown, now a fellow at University of California Berkeley.

    Now there’s a blast from the past. Remember when that evil fascist bitch was poised to take Sandra Day O’Connor’s seat?

  179. 179.

    Martin

    @Anoniminous: The foundational issue is that the federal government is now empowered, to some degree, to break minority rule. Minorities have rights here. This is the fundamental policy disagreement with conservatism and the GOP. The problem is that the more courts and elected politicians reinforce the validity and effectiveness of that policy goal, the harder it is to rewind those rights. The solution is to not allow the government to function. If the government doesn’t function, then the minority rights can’t be protected. As such, it becomes negotiable provided you are willing to shut down the government. I you want your rights protected, you have to have a working government, and we won’t allow it to work unless you agree to give up some of those rights.

    So far, the GOP believe they have sufficient electoral power to keep working this strategy, but I think they also realize that they are very much out of time, that the other shoe is just about ready to drop where they can’t do this any longer unless they can successfully wind those rights back, and the only real mechanism they have with a Democratic president and a Democratic Senate and 5 votes in the House is to take hostages, because the demographic clock is ticking, and as hard as it is to do this today, it’ll be harder next year, and the year after.

    Now, I think to us it seems pretty fucking obvious this strategy won’t work, but I think it’s the only strategy they have, so it’s the strategy they’re going to run.

  180. 180.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @LAO: I would not bet on that. For instance, I think that The Wackadoodle pled (pleaded) to misdemeanors. She may not have to bar license.

    Chesebro may simply not give a shit. There’s plenty of people who are on the RWNJ gravy train who have law degrees but are not practicing lawyers. Some of them have actually be convicted of crimes. They do just fine in their circles.

  184. 184.

    piratedan

    @karen marie: ty…. awaiting word that the AZ AG will file a suit… (I’m dreaming, but you never know)…

    I can only speculate on the cast of characters that would bring into play…..

  185. 185.

    Ken

    @Martin: The reason these two got deals is the speedier trial. There hasn’t been much need to focus on the other 16, but that changes today.

    I hadn’t thought about that, but it makes perfect sense. This may even allow Willis to request moving the other trial forward — she laid the groundwork for that some months ago when she said they would be ready to try everyone in October.

  186. 186.

    wjca

    @bbleh: How about liquidated by the Mob?  It seems … neater.

    Nah. TIFG is only a wannabe mobster.  He doesn’t have the connections needed to get that done.

  187. 187.

    Ruckus

    @Matt McIrvin:

     “I think a lot of people want the world to be simple, they want magic to be real, they want good guys and bad guys to be easily identifiable, they want to know they’re already on the side of good in all things, and they want someone to reassure them of all of this without hesitation or qualification. If you find these people and have no scruples you can easily pick their pockets.”

    I believe that this absolutely deserved to be repeated.

  188. 188.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @smith: bbbuttt I thought the media analysts said the case was too big, too complex, too meandering, Fani Willis took too long indicting for the case to be strong. Chesebros better damn well lose his right to vote.

  192. 192.

    Citizen Alan

    @Jeffro: I don’t think it’s even necessary to ban Fox News if we can just do the other two (neither of which even raises constitutional issues, as expanding the House is clearly within the House’s power and I’m pretty sure mandating non-partisan districts is). There is no money to be made in pandering to geriatric bigots and fascists if doing so no longer delivers political influence.

  194. 194.

    gvg

    @Suzanne: To me he sounds..mentally deficient. His grammar is so bad that I can’t always tell what he means and his knowledge of science, statistics, history and anything factual is so wrong that I can’t possibly believe him about anything even if I thought he was a nice person who meant well.

    Not convincing at all.

  197. 197.

    Citizen Alan

    @Scout211: Not that they are at all attractive, but I would kind of like to see Jordan, Scalise, McArthy, and McHenry sashaying across a stage, naked except for speedos and a satin sash listing the states they represent. (McHenry could wear his bowtie, I supposed). The mental image just made me giggle insanely for moment. Jeffries could be the emcee who asked each of them what they would do to end world hunger and then smirk at their inane responses.

  198. 198.

    Ruckus

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think that as a matter of long term pubic interest, if SFB/TFG is found guilty then he is actually one of the most important people to actually pay the price. Otherwise money really does control the law and there is actually no equality nor accountability.

    Freedom is not actually free if it’s for sale, rather than earned.

  200. 200.

    Lyrebird

    @LAO: Thanks for that clarification.  I hope you can have a good run or whatever to clear your brain of the stress of watching Nice Polite Republicans miss and/or misdirect.

  201. 201.

    Anonymous At Work

    Lawyer, and soon-to-be-former attorney, Cheesy-Bro takes the hint and realizes that that ain’t water dripping on his head.

  202. 202.

    Paul in KY

    @Citizen Alan: Mine too. Maybe their Law Department likes to expose the students to the batshit early? I wouldn’t take anything either of those 2 POSes said as ‘settled law’.

  203. 203.

    Lyrebird

    @Omnes Omnibus: ​
     

    Hm. Thank you for this and the other clarifications. I had hoped the guilty plea would be an automatic disqualifier. But I am not disappointed , let them flip flip flip flip flip…

  204. 204.

    Msb

    Pardon my ignorance, but does a felony conviction/guilty plea mean disbarment? Hoping answer is yes.

  205. 205.

    Ruckus

    @Wapiti:

    As a senior born in the first half of the previous century I agree with this fully. The crap that can infiltrate your mail is – OK the word crap is doing far more than it should, the word shit is far better – amazing. I used to write back and tell them to take me off their mailing lists that I have them on my list of never have anything to do with them entities and to stop sending me their crap shit. It wasn’t worth the time or effort, they always come back at some point.

  207. 207.

    Kathleen

    @Anoniminous: Yup. But people like the Prog Father love to say the Democrats are cowards and gripe because “they can’t talk to working class white people”.

  208. 208.

    Mai Naem mobile

    @Msb: computer says yes. Computer in this case says yes yes yes since they were providing illegal legal advice to somebody. They’re actually dangerous to the legal system.

  209. 209.

    Ruckus

    @Anoniminous:

    Anytime the few non-bat-shit-insane Republicans decide to Grow the Fuck Up the problem is resolved. When or If that happens …

    Yeah, I wouldn’t hold my breath….

  210. 210.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Ruckus: The book “The Big Con” quoted a more nuanced version popular among grifters in the 1940s: “There’s a mark born every minute, and one to trim ’em, and one to knock ’em.”

    That is, suckers are common, but the scammers preying on them are equally common, and so are the people too smart or honest in character to fall for their scams. Making it a little tough out there for a conman.

  211. 211.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Mai Naem mobile: I looked it up–Cheseboro apparently currently lives in Puerto Rico, which does not disenfranchise felons, at least not permanently (I don’t think anyone should).

  212. 212.

    Jeffro

    @Citizen Alan: hmm…can we ban Fox anyway, just because?  =)

    That “enlarge the House” is not a new idea of course, but it and a host of other great ideas are in the American Academy of Arts and Sciences’ report “Our Common Purpose“.

    Dramatically increasing the size of the House would also have the benefit of dramatically decreasing the inherent antidemocratic nature of the Electoral College (until we can get the national dialogue to a point where we get rid of the EC entirely!)

    Here’s hoping that we can get this done in 2025!

  213. 213.

    No One You Know

    @geg6: I don’t think it’s necessarily a character flaw. Fear, pain, poverty (financial or otherwise) in the moment, and Supreme confidence by the snake can lead otherwise competent people in to a bad decision. I have experienced this myself, and I certainly knew better, but the weak moment, or in a hurry, that’s all it takes.

  214. 214.

    Ruckus

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think the only problem many con men have is that they think too big, that they can con everyone. And thankfully they can’t. I was told, decades ago that if life was too easy, anyone could do it, that it has to have some level of difficulty to keep a check on things, to allow a route for progress. One of the things I see now is that communication is so much easier, it allows like minded people to gang together and argue against actually making life better as well as possibly actually making it better. And as an old fart I know that it has gotten a lot better in my lifetime, even as it has a long way to go.  So much of life is better. Think about health before Covid. Think about the fact that I went to school with a girl with polio and two of my friends moms had iron lungs in their front rooms (wouldn’t fit anywhere else) and there is a woman in my complex, my age who had polio. And now? Polio? What’s that? Along with many other diseases that we don’t or very rarely see – the only one with a vaccine when I was born was smallpox. Covid hit us not because we got sick but because it killed so many. We hadn’t seen that level of disease for what, 6 decades. Most people in many parts of the world had never seen that in their lifetimes. Hell I got encephalitis from the measles. Affected my growth for 5 yrs – shortest kid in my HS freshman class. I’m just over average height now. But then? Life changes as time marches on. Hopefully we make it better as we go, but not everyone sees that or sees it as better. Believe me – IT IS.

  216. 216.

    Sister Golden Bear

    @wjca:

    Which would seem to make it the place that really warrants trying to keep control, ssabotage potential plea deals, etc.

    IIRC, under Georgia’s RICO law, one defendant paying for another defendant’s lawyer can be considered evidence of conspiracy.

    Plus in this particular case, the Trump-paid lawyer for a number of the false electors failed to tell the defendants (before the indictments were made public) that Willis had offered them plea bargain deals. Which needless to say, is a huge no-no. That why the trial was delayed — all those defendants got new lawyers, and those lawyers needed time to get familiar with the case.

  218. 218.

    patrick II

    @Chris Johnson:

    I would normally agree with you, but in this case, I think prosecutors will give up more than usual to build as strong of a case as possible against TFG. He is the most important target we have ever seen.

  219. 219.

    patrick II

    Since both defendants in the October trial have taken a deal – – will we still have a trial?

  220. 220.

    Burnspbesq

    @LAO:

    For me, the only significant difference between the Powell and Chesebro agreements is that she gets a shot at convincing the disciplinary authorities that her crimes didn’t involve moral turpitude; a win there gets her suspended rather than disbarred. As a convicted felon, Chesebro’s disbarment is going to be pretty much automatic.

  221. 221.

    stinger

    @Matt McIrvin:

    I think a lot of people want the world to be simple, they want magic to be real, they want good guys and bad guys to be easily identifiable, they want to know they’re already on the side of good in all things, and they want someone to reassure them of all of this without hesitation or qualification.

    All true, but you forgot “A lot of people want something for nothing.” They want an “amazing deal”. One-time offer, expires at midnight, have to say yes NOW!

  224. 224.

    WaterGirl

    @Burnspbesq:

    For me, the only significant difference between the Powell and Chesebro agreements is that she gets a shot at convincing the disciplinary authorities that her crimes didn’t involve moral turpitude; a win there gets her suspended rather than disbarred. As a convicted felon, Chesebro’s disbarment is going to be pretty much automatic.

    I watched the entire proceeding live.  Two things.

    First, after successful completion of his 5-year probation is complete, because he requested and received first-time offender status, the felony gets wiped in some way and he does not have to answer YES to the “are you a convicted felon” question.

    Second, he requested the legal version of a statement that his crimes did NOT involve moral turpitude, and the state agreed.

    So he is home free on both of those, provided he doesn’t fuck this up in some other way.

  227. 227.

    wjca

    @Ruckus: So much of life is better. Think about health before Covid. Think about the fact that I went to school with a girl with polio and two of my friends moms had iron lungs in their front rooms (wouldn’t fit anywhere else) and there is a woman in my complex, my age who had polio. And now? Polio? What’s that? Along with many other diseases that we don’t or very rarely see – the only one with a vaccine when I was born was smallpox. Covid hit us not because we got sick but because it killed so many. We hadn’t seen that level of disease for what, 6 decades.

    I’m in much the same boat.  It astounds me when an anti-vaxxer tries to tell me that all those “childhood diseases” were disappearing naturally.  Because I, like you, was there — and it simply wasn’t remotely true.

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