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You are here: Home / Open Threads / Martyrdom of St. Matt

Martyrdom of St. Matt

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Matt Gaetz, de facto leader of what the not-quite-as-extreme House Repubs are derisively calling the “Crazy Eight,” i.e., the reps who deposed McCarthy, must really be feeling the heat from colleagues judging from a whiny, self-important offer reported by Nicole Lafond at TPM earlier today:

Just as the vote was gaveled into the record, Gaetz told reporters on the Capitol steps that he and the other seven Republicans who forced this chaos in ousting McCarthy as speaker earlier this month are willing to negotiate with the moderates who can’t stomach Jordan.

The holdouts “have no goals, have no asks, have no objectives, other than to see the eight of us suffer some consequence for having removed McCarthy. So we’ve made them an offer,” he said. “The eight of us have said that we are willing to accept censure, sanction, suspension, removal from the Republican conference, we of course would remain Republicans, we will continue to vote with Republicans on Republican principles, but if what these holdouts need is a pound of our flesh, we’re willing to give it to them in order to see them elect Jim Jordan for speaker.”

Oh, climb down off the cross, drama llama.

As Lafond notes, the reps weren’t voting against Jordan just to spite Gaetz and pals, though no doubt many of them do hate Gaetz’s smarmy guts, joining right-thinking people on this one point if no other. Jordan’s strong-arm tactics and reputation as a Trump-humping, insurrection-facilitating, sexual assault-ignoring turd who would embarrass the party as its turd-face probably had something to do with it too.

The latest: as of the results of a secret ballot this afternoon, Jordan is no longer the speaker-nominee because he lost an up-or-down vote by 112 to 86. So, the humiliation of Jordan is complete.

The House will recess for the weekend, reconvene Monday, and on Tuesday, they’ll hold another vote. It’s unclear for whom. Maybe the bow-tied twerp? The restoration of McCarthy? The revenge of Scalia? Who knows, but it won’t be Matt Gaetz.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

169Comments

  1. 1.

    Tom Levenson

    Recessing for the weekend?

    Schmucks. The world and the country need a functioning US gov’t–and until they get a speaker we ain’t got one.

    I wish I could lock them into the House chamber with no food, water or bathroom access. That would get this done with dispatch.

  2. 2.

    Delk

    Matt probably had the “I’m being censured” fundraising email ready before he made the offer.

  3. 3.

    Kent

    They are going to bring back McCarthy.  Beg him to come back.  That is my guess.

    In getting ousted as speaker he got more votes than any of the replacement candidates.  He is the GOP candidate who has gotten more votes than any other alternative.  It is the logical option.  He will actually get his pound of flesh to agree to come back. Which is dropping the 1-member rule to call a confidence vote.   That HAS to be a more palatable alternative to the GOP than some coalition government with Dems.  Even for Gaetz.

    But what do I know.

  5. 5.

    Kent

    @Tom Levenson: I wish I could lock them into the House chamber with no food, water or bathroom access. That would get this done with dispatch.

    Biden needs to turn Commander loose in the House chamber to light a fire under their asses.  Hah.

  8. 8.

    hitchhiker

    “Those other Republicans over there have no principles!” says — wait for it — Matt Fucking Gaetz.

    It’s truly astonishing that he has not been publicly punched in the nuts.

  9. 9.

    dmsilev

    @Kent:

    They are going to bring back McCarthy.  Beg him to come back.  That is my guess.

    That’s plausible. And hilarious. And kind of depressing that we’d as a country spent a few weeks just to end up where we started.

  10. 10.

    Anoniminous

    McHenry saying he’ll wait until Tuesday to call the next election. I’m wondering if Jefferies can strong arm/convince 5 GOP’ers to vote for him, 10 to No Show, or some Mix/Match of those. Unlikely, I grant you, right now. End of next week? Maybe not so.

  11. 11.

    Tom Levenson

    @Anoniminous: If I were a planning to retire GOP representative I’d strongly consider just resigning now. Tell the media “enough’s enough” or whatever.

    That could make life interesting next week.

    Won’t happen, but it should.

  14. 14.

    jonas

    @Kent: They are going to bring back McCarthy.

    Anything’s possible, I guess, but how are you going to get the 8 people who went along with removing him to reinstate him now? They’d need at least 3 or 4 of those votes back. Who’s going to humiliate themselves like that? Oh, right. They’re Republicans. “No shame whatsoever, ever” is their motto.

  15. 15.

    BellaPea

    @Tom Levenson: Funny you should mention the notion of retiring. I saw an article on my Apple newsfeed that four female Republican House members are planning to get out of the chaos. As one of them put it, “It’s just not worth it anymore.”

  16. 16.

    Alison Rose

    @Anoniminous: I figure Jeffries and Pelosi can start sliding into the DMs of the five oldest GOP Reps, and point out to them they might as well cross the aisle because if it means losing their seat next time, well, that day was gonna come soon anyway.

    We got:

    • Hal Rogers (86 in December)
    • John Carter (82 in two weeks)
    • Kay Granger (80)
    • Virginia Foxx (80)
    • Jim Baird (78)

    Maybe throw in tickets to a cruise or something.

  17. 17.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    Jake Sherman @JakeSherman

    JORDAN LOST — Jim Jordan lost a secret ballot. He’s no longer the speaker designate for the House GOP

    01:58 PM · Oct 20, 2023

    Everything Dump Touches Dies

  18. 18.

    Anoniminous

    The arithmetic makes it very, very, difficult for the Republicans.  They currently hold 221 seats.  It takes 217 to elect a Speaker.  Five hold-outs from any of the factions or a combination of factions is a blocking minority.

  19. 19.

    Martin

    @BellaPea: I think this is the pressure valve. It’s not giving into Jordan as speaker or whatever, it’s just getting out entirely. Choosing to not run for re-election is the easier step, resigning immediately will start to be a more palatable option for some. I’m starting to wonder if this won’t be how this ends – the GOP simply loses their majority because of resignations. Once you’ve served 6 years, you have your Congressional pension – you’ve got the thing of value.

  20. 20.

    jonas

    @Anoniminous:   I’m wondering if Jefferies can strong arm/convince 5 GOP’ers to vote for him, 10 to No Show, or some Mix/Match of those.

    As I said in an earlier thread, there is no way, no how that you get any Republican to cross over and vote for Jeffries. It would be instant political suicide. What they might do, however, is negotiate for Dem votes for a compromise candidate and some other terms about rules, votes, etc.. Who that might be, I have no idea.

  22. 22.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    The Media Matters reporter Matt Gertz is getting a lot of flack on social media right now from people who have him confused with Gaetz. Whenever his notification explode, he braces himself to learn what Gaetz has done now. He takes it with a sense of humor.

  28. 28.

    Anoniminous

    @jonas: ​
     
    The assumption there is the House member wants to stay a House member. May or may not be accurate for the members we’re talking about.

  29. 29.

    hueyplong

    @Alison Rose: Virginia Foxx should be nowhere near a list of humans.  I am pleased, however, to note that your listed age puts her closer to Hell than I thought she was.

  30. 30.

    Geminid

    @Tom Levenson: We have a functioning executive branch, and that is in effect a functioning government.

    Half of the legislative branch is functioning, but half isn’t. That is a potential funding problem, but it is far from an emergency.

    Anyway, I think we will have a Speaker in 10 days max, one way or another.

  31. 31.

    Another Scott

    https://nitter.net/fritschner lists a few names that have supposedly said they’re running:

    Hern, Mike Johnson, Austin Scott, Jack Bergman, Meuser (considering it), Arrington (seriously considering it), Mark Green (weighing run).

    I don’t think it will be Qevin again. (It won’t be Jeffries either – not yet.) I think it will be someone new, and I think that they’ll probably want to have 217 (or whatever the magic number is) before they do the public vote. It may take a while before they get there.

    They’ve still got until the week of November 17 to fix this, and I still expect it to take that long. Deadlines focus the mind, and Congress only gets something done when there’s a serious deadline.

    We’ll see!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  32. 32.

    Scout211

     “have no goals, have no asks, have no objectives,

    Gaetz said, while gazing longingly in the mirror with stars in his eyes.

  34. 34.

    sdhays

    The holdouts “have no goals, have no asks, have no objectives

    This has been the Republican negotiating position since at least 2011. They have no goals, no asks, no objectives beyond grandstanding on inflicting pain on “the other”, usually just Democrats in general as a proxy for all those undeserving “others”. Whenever they have an ask, as soon as they get it, it’s already not enough. That’s one of the reasons it took 15 votes in January to elect the Squeaker – Matt Gaetz and friends would agree to a deal and then renege just to watch McQarthy squirm. Sucks to be on the other side of that shit, doesn’t it, Matt?

    If the rest of the Republicans don’t want this to happen again, they need it to utterly fail. That means either a coalition with Democrats (hiss!) or forcing McQarthy down those 8 fuckers’ throats again. Matt et al shouldn’t be allowed to choose “censure” or whatever; the whole thing needs to have been completely pointless.

    It sure would be hilarious if there was a tsunami of resignations that handed the House to the Democrats for a few weeks that allowed a bunch of stuff to get done so that the House being ungovernable for most of 2024 wasn’t as big a deal.

  35. 35.

    Ken

    @Tom Levenson: I wish I could lock them into the House chamber with no food, water or bathroom access.

    You forgot the part about the walls slowly closing in. Spikes optional.

  36. 36.

    Geminid

    @jonas: Former Pennsylvania Rep. Charlie Dent might be a suitable “outsider” Speaker.

    And Ambassador Jeff Flake is rested and ready! Flake might be staying close to the US Embassy in Ankara next week, hoping he gets the call

    But I think the likelier prospect still is that House Republicans find one of their own who can get 217 votes.

  38. 38.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Alison Rose:

    No no no. LOTS of water…and no bathroom access :P

    Once in a while, they get a delivery of very, very salty snacks.

  43. 43.

    Another Scott

    re the Letter, of course they made up at least one signature (that of Rep. Buck).

    Aaron Fritschner
    @Fritschner
    2h

    Signing a member onto a letter without their permission is, of course, a huge no-no. This letter expressed its signatories’ willingness to be censured and removed from their committees and the Republican conference. Dirty pool in the extreme

    Olivia Beavers
    @Olivia_Beavers
    2h
    Replying to @Olivia_Beavers

    He said he reviewed the letter and told Rep. Andy Biggs it was a good letter in terms of “the structure and phrasing of the letter.”

    And so Biggs “assumed,” per Buck, that he was supportive of it. But said he said he told Biggs “no” when asked if he could put him on the letter.
    Oct 20, 2023 · 5:02 PM UTC

    Peter Principle
    @Jobsboils
    2h

    Replying to @Fritschner
    For people who use death threats as a negotiating tactic, it’s a minor infraction.

    Something something who killed who.

    These clowns (Gaetz et al.) think that they can just make stuff up, even about people in the same room with them, and get what they want. They’re insane and cannot be trusted.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  44. 44.

    Anoniminous

    Martin:
    (If you’re still around)
    What the South faced was the Federal government thwarting the will of the majority.  The majority of Southerners were white and supported state law that infringed on the Constitutionally granted rights of blacks.  That’s why the whole fro-fro about State’s Rights came galloping back.​

  45. 45.

    jonas

    @Anoniminous: Yes, but you need the combination of 1. sick of this shit and willing to work with Democrats to break the logjam and 2. actually willing to vote for a Democratic speaker.

    1’s a possibility. Just because they’re throwing in the towel or retiring or whatever doesn’t mean they’re down with Nr. 2. Virginia Foxx will be cold and dead and in the ground before she votes for a Democrat.

  46. 46.

    Dangerman

    @Alison Rose:  No no no. LOTS of water…and no bathroom access :P

    Potentially lethal. See the “No Wee For A Wii” thing.

    Instead, drinking game. Pour a shot, vote. Still no bathroom access.

  47. 47.

    HumboldtBlue

    Pissed off right-wing commenter on Gateway Pundit Twitter — “I’m done voting. It’s obviously not worth my time and effort. Time to move on.”

    That’s the spirit, Kimberly Conway!

  49. 49.

    Scout211

    CNN  says it’s over for Jordan

    Added:  The beauty pageant begins again.

    Confirmed candidates:

    Rep. Kevin Hern of Oklahoma, Republican Study Committee chair
    Rep. Austin Scott of Georgia, who challenged Jordan last time
    Rep. Jack Bergman of Michigan, a former general
    Rep. Tom Emmer of Minnesota, Majority Whip
    Rep. Byron Donalds of Florida, Freedom Caucus member

    Considering running:

    Rep. Mark Green of Tennessee, Homeland Security Chair and Freedom Caucus member
    Rep. Jodey Arrington of Texas, Budget chair
    Rep. Mike Johnson of Louisiana, vice conference chair

  50. 50.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @jonas: She doesn’t have to vote for a Democrat. She just has to develop a ‘bad cold’ and not come in that day.

  53. 53.

    Geminid

    @Anoniminous: Each cycle, there are typically 10 to 15 members from each caucus who retire. Those who decide to retire early will land on their feet.

    And to beat a somewhat dead horse, the electoral calculus is different for Republicans in jungle primary states. Newhouse (WA) and Valade ( CA) already survived impeaching Trump. Valadeo and Duarte (CA) might be better off next year if they separated from this Republican House Caucus.

  55. 55.

    moops

    My guess is Matt has already heard a rumor that censure is coming his way, and this is a way to make like it was HIS idea and he is doing it for some Greater Good.

  57. 57.

    cursorial

    @Geminid:  As much as I’ve enjoyed these chaos monkeys reaping what they sowed, this is still a terrifying state to be stuck in. A war/major terrorist attack/sudden 2008-style financial crisis would need a Congressional response, and we have no way to get one. The most likely alternative, that the executive branch just does what it needs to do regardless of legal authority, is a really bad precedent.

  58. 58.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Kent:

    They are going to bring back McCarthy. Beg him to come back. That is my guess. 

    They should go beg Paul Ryan or John Boehner.

  59. 59.

    Elizabelle

    The revenge of Scalia?

    Scalise.  But maybe they should not rule out the dead men not walking, at this juncture.

    Drama llamas and treason weasels.

  61. 61.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Mike S:

    I don’t think I have ever seen a vote to denominate someone. 

    The Rethuglicans have never, arguably, nominated such a massive pile of shit as Gym Jordan either.

  62. 62.

    Scout211

    @Scout211:

    NBC News headline:

    House Republicans dump Jordan as speaker nominee after three failed votes

    Poor, poor, pitiful Gym.  Honey, they are just not into you.

  63. 63.

    hueyplong

    @Anoniminous: Or they could grant Matty’s martyrdom bid, have a group of underage girls stone Gaetz to death, pour encourager les autres, and schedule a vote far enough off to allow ample time for the other seven to carefully consider their votes.

    More likely is that the group will turn to a stealth bomb-thrower sufficiently “principled” to refuse to permit a vote on funding for Ukraine.

  64. 64.

    Geminid

    @cursorial: I guess we might have the kind of challenging event you speak of in the next 10 days. I can’t think of the last time that’s happened though.

  65. 65.

    moops

    “have no goals, have no asks, have no objectives

     

    How about “We don’t want a traitor to democracy and a stolen election hoaxer running the House?  That seems to be what a lot of GOP members are asking for.

  67. 67.

    Barbara

    Matt’s big blow-up suggests that his strategy all along was to get Jordan into the speaker’s chair. All the things he is offering have no relevance to the ongoing procedural operation of the House itself, and are not “concessions” to give people something real on substance. It’s all symbolic — making him kiss their feet or whatever. He doesn’t seem to have thought far enough ahead about how to get people to stop loathing Jordan enough to put up with him as, effectively, their boss.

  69. 69.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Dorothy A. Winsor:

    The Media Matters reporter Matt Gertz is getting a lot of flack on social media right now from people who have him confused with Gaetz. Whenever his notification explode, he braces himself to learn what Gaetz has done now. He takes it with a sense of humor. 

    Time to mozy on over to Nitter.

  71. 71.

    Omnes Omnibus

    @Alison Rose: A judge in the SD Ohio does that during settlement conferences for civil cases when the Argies are really close but just can’t make a deal.  Lots of coffee and water.  No breaks.  Laughs about it at court functions.  Great judge.  Great guy.

  72. 72.

    Barbara

    @Alison Rose: Virginia Foxx is batshit.  Like covered and dripping in batshit.  Trust me, we don’t want her as a Democrat and I am sure she would never agree to cross the aisle.

  74. 74.

    Tom Levenson

    @Geminid: If we can’t get appropriations and the gov’t shuts down, that’s not a functioning institution. If we cannot get aid to Ukraine in defense of vital national interests then we do not have functional policy-making at the heart of power.

    Yes, I’m very glad Biden/Harris remain bulwarks against the madness. But that’s not enough.

  75. 75.

    Martin

    @Anoniminous: Right, but states rights have not proven sufficient for a diversifying nation. The idea was that the feds can’t be trusted to keep the right people in their place, we elevate the role of the states. When the states can’t be trusted, you elevate the role of the local sheriff. When the sheriff can’t be trusted you elevate the role of the individual with an AR-15.

    All of this – everything since Nixon has been an exercise in cranking that machine forward a notch toward that obvious end state. This is just a further continuation of that.

    Whether it’s a misguided belief that they still hold the majority (something I think it’s VERY easy for them to be mislead into thinking) or whether they realize they’ve slipped into the minority themselves but still retain sufficient power to behave as if they are in the majority, I can’t tell – and honestly it doesn’t really matter because they both lead to the same place – a declaration that democracy is terrible because it won’t perpetuate their veto authority over everyone else. And really, that’s just the current speaker fight in a nutshell, isn’t it?

  77. 77.

    Barbara

    @hueyplong: ​In that he was accused of actually abusing members of the wrestling team rather than just ignoring, and then denying any knowledge of the abuse taking place right under his nose? Also, he was a high school coach so he coached minors, whereas Jordan was collegiate. So yeah, Hastert is definitely worse. On other metrics of revolting conduct in or out of Congress, I can’t say.  Jordan is definitely louder, but I suspect that’s just the times we live in and the number of outlets for his yelling.

  79. 79.

    Martin

    @hueyplong: Policywise no, personally, maybe. Not because Hastert wasn’t personally a piece of shit, but because I don’t think anyone would be shocked to learn that Jordan is personally worse, though I think several other republicans are leading that race.

  82. 82.

    RevRick

    @jonas: Virginia Foxx will be cold and dead and in the ground before she will vote for a Democrat.

    She’s two-thirds of the way there!

  85. 85.

    Geminid

    @Tom Levenson: “If…” and “if.”

    These events could happen, but they havn’t happened yet. If there is a new Speaker in 10 days or less- and I believe there will be- it will be in plenty of time. That is why I say this is not an emergency.

  88. 88.

    Martin

    @Sister Golden Bear: I actually introduced a physical conch shell to our staff meetings due to my tendency to talk over my staff. It was a way for my staff to tell me to shut up. It worked pretty well.

  89. 89.

    Bill Arnold

    @cursorial:

    As much as I’ve enjoyed these chaos monkeys reaping what they sowed, this is still a terrifying state to be stuck in.

    I dropped this in the Ukraine thread (continuing a discussion) but it works here.
    This is interesting, full of charts, worth a read and some thought:
    The U.S. House has sailed into dangerously uncharted territory. There’s no going back. Seven data points mapping the weirdness of this moment, and a plea for reform. (LEE DRUTMAN, OCT 20, 2023; author publishes actively, according to scholar.google.com)
    (via Digby)
    (emphasis mine)

    If we are truly in uncharted territory, the map of the past offers little advice.
    It’s normal to fear the uncharted. This is our natural conservative instinct — however imperfect the status quo might be, it at least reflects the accumulated wisdom and traditions of years; most alternatives are likely worse.
    But in this uncharted territory, we are beyond the accumulation of traditions. We are in the unknown, whether we like it or not. And all the signals suggest big change ahead. There is only one option: start thinking creatively about how we might govern ourselves in the years to come. The future, after all, belongs to those who show up with a plan.

  91. 91.

    Another Scott

    @Tom Levenson: The CR was a few hours before the deadline.  Before that, the debt ceiling agreement was a few hours before the deadline.

    Israel is getting arms.  Ukraine is getting arms.

    The upcoming deadline is Friday November 17.  Something will be done – there will be a Speaker and a CR (or a CR in progress) by the deadline, is my guess.

    That’s the way these things work, and while there are some differences this time, I’ve not seen any evidence that it will be different in the end this time.

    Yes, the next several months will be annoying and stupid and infuriating because of the GQP.  They’re not going to suddenly be sensible.  But they want to be re-elected, so they’re not going to let 20 crazies burn the place down – there are limits.

    Hang in there.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  93. 93.

    RevRick

    @jonas: The only scenario where Jeffries ends up as Speaker is where multiple GOP contenders have failed to attain the 217 they need, and the deadline of November 17th for the CR is a day or two away, so a sufficient number of panicked Biden-district Representatives decide to take an extended lunch when the Speaker vote occurs.
    There won’t be any deal. Just head nods and implied agreements. After all, the only things Democrats can realistically get out of the GOP House is funding the government for the fiscal year and appropriations for Ukraine, Israel, and Taiwan. Beyond that, the less the better.

  96. 96.

    Alison Rose

    I’m pretty sure I’ve only visited the Harry & David website like once in my life a few years ago when I was trying to figure out a gift for someone, and yet for the past couple of weeks, about a quarter of my YouTube ads are for Harry & David and I don’t even like pears.

  97. 97.

    Tom Levenson

    @Another Scott: I wish I were as sanguine as you (and others). I think the degree to which a substantial chunk of the GOP wants to burn the place down is easy to underestimate.

    And even if you and Geminid are right, and this is all, in essence, a performance–each time it happens some of the credibility of the US gov’t erodes. There are already effects being felt in the real world of just possibility of a shut down, including at my own shop, where we’re beginning to think about what to do about the research enterprise if promised federal checks don’t arrive on schedule. As we get closer to the deadline the cost of that uncertainty will rise.

    So, yeah, I do hope you’re right. But everytime we go through this farce of governance, some of our reserves of trust and continuity evaporate.

  99. 99.

    moonbat

    @hueyplong: If there were such a place as hell, I imagine people who molest children and people who allow children to be molested are sitting in the same row or or boiling in the same pot.

  100. 100.

    Jeffro

    @cursorial: A war/major terrorist attack/sudden 2008-style financial crisis would need a Congressional response, and we have no way to get one. The most likely alternative, that the executive branch just does what it needs to do regardless of legal authority, is a really bad precedent.

    You’re right.  It’s funny…this week, I have been watching/sitting in on a conference about various aspects of democracy and small-d democratic reform, and one of the more astute participants noted that Congress’ increasing dysfunction is directly responsible for the continued growth of executive branch executive orders (and subsequent over-reach).

    I guess this crazy shit – a GOP majority unable/unwilling to govern in even the most basic ways – is the end stage of that dysfunction.

  101. 101.

    Barbara

    @Alison Rose: ​Well, it’s hard to tell when something is a joke anymore. I could see how someone might think that desperate times call for desperate measures.

  103. 103.

    Jeffro

    @Bill Arnold: that’s a great piece, but as a few of us have noted, a readily available (once the Dems have the majority, that is) remedy is to double the size of the House.  Set all these far-right goons adrift in purple districts and see what happens.

    After that, end or restrict gerrymandering.

  104. 104.

    Another Scott

    @Tom Levenson: I agree it’s incredibly damaging.  Like Adam, I have scars from previous episodes…

    The bomb-throwers’ only power is to threaten to throw bombs.  Their power evaporates at the deadline, when the others who want to be re-elected find a way around them.  That’s what happens with these tiny majorities – the people out at the 6-sigma tail get extra power.

    There’s no incentive for anyone wanting their pound of flesh to compromise, or act, or force the issue, before the deadline.

    It sucks, but that’s the way it works.

    “More and better democrats” as someone at the Great Orange Satan supposedly said, is the solution.

    FSM help us!!  :-)

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  105. 105.

    Barbara

    @Alison Rose: We are running out of elderly relatives but we do send fruit to people — mostly family members — as gifts, so I guess we deserve all the ads we get.

  106. 106.

    Ken

    @Barbara: I could see how someone might think that desperate times call for desperate measures.

    SWEENEY TODD: These are desperate times, Mrs. Lovett, and desperate measures must be taken.

    MRS. LOVETT: Here we are! Hot from the oven.

    SWEENEY TODD: What is that?

    MRS. LOVETT: It’s priest, have a little priest,…

    But that’s perhaps more appropriate to the scenario where the Republican caucus is locked in a room and not allowed out until… Wait, why are we adding an “until”?

  107. 107.

    Geminid

    @Tom Levenson: Sure we do.

    I see similarities here with the Debt Ceiling crisis, which was much more fraught as to potential harm. People were freaking out! And then Wham! it was settled. Once they caught their breath, many of the people who’d been freaking out complained about some potential “bad precedent.”

    And as a practical matter, I don’t think Democrats can do anything to relieve the current freak-out except give Republicans what they don’t need and don’t deserve. But instead, Jeffries and company are hanging tough because they know this is not an emergency yet.

  110. 110.

    Martin

    @Jeffro: Values neutral governance only works by mutual consent. We lost mutual consent sometime between 2009 and 2016.

    Those things will not change our trajectory. It’s the correct ‘more democracy’ answer, but we’re witnessing before our eyes, one house of one branch of government completely breaking down because on the rare occasion when it does turn to ‘more democracy’ a minority blows the place up. Remember, the instigating action was McCarthy using Democrats to get a funding bill over the line. Everything we’ve seen has followed from that one digression.

    You cannot bring the House back into order with more democracy, because they’ll simply write a new set of rules to negate the more democracy. This would be a good time for Biden to force the House into session, as is his power under Article II, until such time as a speaker is chosen. And make it clear, this is a power that will be exercised should the House decide to run itself into a ditch again. At some point the rank and file members will stop voting for the rules that keep running them into that ditch, and keep them working on a Saturday night.

    Obama should have done that with the Senate when they refused a vote on Garland.

  112. 112.

    Martin

    @Geminid: I suspect, tentatively, that Jeffries will hold tough even past the emergency, because this is not an aberration but a pattern enabled by Democrats constantly throwing the GOP a rope. I think Jeffries understands how the minority can enable their own undoing through concessions in a way that Pelosi maybe didn’t.

  115. 115.

    Geminid

    I think that if House Republicans are locked in their caucus room for days with only bread, wster and coffee, there should be some respite activities. Maybe a real clown could come in and give juggling lessons.

    Some of those Republicans will need new jobs come January, 2025. They could start a circus!

  116. 116.

    Another Scott

    @Martin: Nice idea, but it wouldn’t work.  The House would have some guy come in for a 5 minute session and then leave (the way the Senate prevents recess appointments).

    A president cannot force a co-equal branch to do something.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  119. 119.

    Martin

    @HumboldtBlue: It’s a perfectly sensible thing to call the House into session until such time that an elected Speaker can adjourn it, with the placeholder speaker to oversee the election of said speaker.

    Any argument the House might raise with respect to rules are completely unfounded as the House cannot establish rules without a speaker.

  122. 122.

    Betty Cracker

    Some Repubs are floating Rep. Byron Donalds, a Trumpy wingnut from SW FL. I don’t think he’ll win, but if he did, he’d be the first black Speaker of the House.

  123. 123.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jay: I have canned tuna, yellow onion, and mayo.  And of course, spices.

    And Miracle Whip, really?  And who the hell puts cilantro into tuna salad?

  125. 125.

    Another Scott

    @Martin: If there were One Weird Trick to solve it, it would have been done already.  I don’t see anyone else suggesting that Biden calling the House to stay in session as a solution.

    https://nitter.net/fritschner thinks they’ll pick a Speaker in fewer than 5 more votes.

    We’ll see!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  128. 128.

    SiubhanDuinne

    @mrmoshpotato:

    My tuna salad is pretty much Everything* Tuna Salad, so the bread is a simple toasted English muffin, nothing with flavour.

    *Tuna, Duke’s mayonnaise, chopped salad olives with pimientos, cashews, and crumbled bacon.

    ETA: And water chestnuts. I like my tuna salad to have some nice crunch to it.

  131. 131.

    TriassicSands

    I don’t have time right now to read all the comments, but Trump has been fined $5,000 for violating the gag order in the civil trial in New York. Five thousand dollars, now that’s a real deterrent.

  133. 133.

    hueyplong

    Hate mayo and its imitators, which I mistakenly thought to be a founding principle of this site.  Canned tuna, sour cream, diced onion and pickle.

  134. 134.

    Martin

    @Another Scott: That’s not as easy to do, as an emergency session is not a continuation of the previous session, but an entirely new session. This would become the 2nd session of the 118th congress, and the session starting Jan 2024 would become the 3rd session. As such, most of the rules from the first session do not automatically carry over and need to be reset. This is normally the 2nd vote that is taken after a speaker is chosen. Right now, we’re still in the first session subject to the rules of the first session. This would reset that. It would change how the House operates (which of course the GOP is, as usual, inclined to ignore).

    But these aren’t really the point. The point is that the President has called an extraordinary session (that’s what it’s called) of the House for the first time since 1948 and can vow to continue to call the House into session if they insist on recessing without a speaker. The point is to elevate this problem beyond an internal squabble and to the level of a function of government that needs to be resolved with urgency given that we’re 3 weeks out from needing a budget. It changes the political calculus for at least some members of the House as it turns all manner of attention to the sausage making that isn’t yet being surfaced. Yes, there are procedural chicanery that can take place, but the point is that you’ve now turned such a large spotlight on the House that the chicanery starts to resemble acts against the government.

    One of Democrats real problems now is the constant crying wolf. Every time they’ve said ‘this is an existential threat’ they didn’t follow that up with actions suggestive of an existential threat. At some point you can’t just yell fire, but you also have to pull the cord. I would be politically beneficial if Democrats finally pulled the cord. Calling the House into session and repeatedly reconvening it is pulling the cord.

  136. 136.

    Humdog

    Offering themselves up for punishment to benefit someone else makes me think they must have other motives. Maybe I am just joining the conspiracy crowd, but what is so important about having Jordan, specifically, as speaker? Wouldn’t put it past them to plan to never relinquish the speaker gavel even if the voters choose  a Democratic majority.  Then they can fuck with the presidential results as well.

  137. 137.

    Jay

    @SiubhanDuinne:

     

    @mrmoshpotato:

     

    @hueyplong:

     

    Canned line caught Albacore, coarse ground black pepper, Hellman’s, on toasted, buttered (decent bread of some kind, a bagel even),

    When I was a kid, towards the end of the month, (Dad got paid monthly) lunches at school were often homemade bread, ( yum), Cheese Whiz, ( the Canadian stuff, made with real cheese, s’okay) and pickles, (butter, mustard, sweet or dill, yuck), (no money),

    Other than the odd ghirkin, I am anti-pickle.

  139. 139.

    TriassicSands

    @cain:

    Trump’s businesses die? Maybe, but all the indications are that Trump’s businesses ARE the Zombie Apocalypse. Decades of criminality, malfeasance, incompetence, etc. and yet on Trump goes.

    Trump has had many business failures, but there are virtually an infinite number of possible scams and grifts to choose from and Trump has a seemingly  unlimited ATM in his followers and enablers. It may be out there somewhere, but I wish I could see the light at the end of the tunnel. Of course, the hope is now that one (or more) of his trials will bring about the end.

  142. 142.

    mrmoshpotato

    @TriassicSands:

    I don’t have time right now to read all the comments, but Trump has been fined $5,000 for violating the gag order in the civil trial in New York. Five thousand dollars, now that’s a real deterrent. 

    They forgot several trailing zeros!

  144. 144.

    Another Scott

    Aaron Fritschner
    @Fritschner
    43m

    I think of those running so far, the one who seems best positioned to win a majority of the majority is Tom Emmer. And I think of those running so far, perhaps the only one I can see being denied floor support by the Freedom Caucus after winning a conference vote is… Tom Emmer.
    Oct 20, 2023 · 8:57 PM UTC

    I suspect it’s not going to be easy. And I still think it’s too early (too far from the deadline) for them to get their act together and elect someone. But it feels to me like this is winding down toward a resolution.

    Not betting my milk money on any particular outcome on Tuesday though!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  145. 145.

    Shalimar

    @hueyplong: In terms of direct effects on people’s lives, what Hastert did when he was a high school coach is far worse than any single thing that Jim Jordan has ever done.  In terms of lifetime achievement,  does Jordan ever do anything that isn’t bullying and slimy?  You can make a list of hundreds of things where you ask “how could a human say or do that?”  Hastert was basically your average scumbag Republican politician through most of his life.

    I don’t know how you weigh all of that.  Maybe Hastert is still worse because the raping was so evil.  But I don’t think it is as clear-cut as it would be with most members of Congress.

  147. 147.

    Jackie

    Heh, last paragraph made me snort laugh.

    “House Majority Whip Tom Emmer (R-MN) is the frontrunner in a massive field of candidates for speaker now that the House Republican Conference has ousted Rep. Jim Jordan (R-OH) as their speaker designate,” Punchbowl News reports.

    “Emmer nabbed an important endorsement right out of the gate. Former Speaker Kevin McCarthy told us Friday afternoon that Emmer is ‘the right person for the job. He can unite the conference. He understands the dynamics of the conference. He also understands what it takes to win and keep a majority.’”

    But here’s the kicker: “Since we broke the Emmer news, we’ve gotten a number of calls from sources associated with former President Donald Trump’s orbit saying they will try to derail Emmer’s candidacy.”

  152. 152.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Dan B:

    Oh joy! Emmerich the virulent homophobe, and likely transphobe. 

    We can just safely assume he’s a transphobe too.

  156. 156.

    zhena gogolia

    @Dan B: Well, I doubt he’s going to get it.

    Why do all those idiots vote for these idiots? If only the Dems were in the majority.

  157. 157.

    zhena gogolia

    @Dan B:

    Well, I just saw this:

    U.S. Rep. Tom Emmer was the only Minnesota Republican in Congress to vote for a bill that would codify federal protections for same-sex couples, despite his previous opposition to gay marriage.

  158. 158.

    zhena gogolia

    But all this good stuff:

    “Fire Pelosi” machine gun video
    In an October 2022 CBS News television interview, Emmer was challenged for posting a video on Twitter that showed him firing a fully automatic machine gun with the caption “#FIREPELOSI”.[75] As chair of the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC), Emmer led 2022 election efforts to win a majority and replace House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. The post occurred just days before the home invasion and attack on Pelosi’s husband in California.

    Healthcare
    Emmer favors repealing the Affordable Care Act (Obamacare). After supporting the March 2017 version of the American Health Care Act (a bill to repeal the ACA), he voted for it on May 4, 2017, before it had been scored by the Congressional Budget Office to determine its economic impact.

    Minimum wage
    In 2005, as a state representative, Emmer introduced an amendment that would have eliminated Minnesota’s minimum wage law.[76]

    Immigration
    Emmer supported President Donald Trump’s 2017 executive order to temporarily curtail immigration from seven predominantly Muslim countries until better screening methods are devised, saying, “Everybody needs to take a deep breath. There is no litmus test based on religion. The administration and I understand it has — takes the seven countries identified by the Obama administration, not this administration, as the most dangerous countries when it comes to potential terrorists.”[77]

  160. 160.

    Another Scott

    @zhena gogolia: I saw that too.  It looks like he changed his position between 2010 and then, so he seems to be susceptible – to some degree – to the views of his constituents.

    OTOH, CatholicVote.org shows he’s in lock-step with the RWNJs on a whole bunch of other stupid and dangerous culture-war things.

    He wouldn’t be in GQP leadership if he weren’t, of course.

    We’re not going to have a good speaker this time.  About the best we can hope for is one that keeps his word.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  161. 161.

    WaterGirl

    @Martin: Ha!

    I kept a little “clock” made out of a paper plate with a little arrow with a spot that said “Time to go swimming” so the folks who worked for me could move the arrow to that if I was tense or wound up about something.  :-

    It worked great!

  163. 163.

    Bill Arnold

    I’m getting an intuition  (smell) of extreme lack of empathy re Emmer. Haven’t poked, but a position for weakening of drunk-driving laws is often personal or close relation/friend. Other shifts/stances may be personal as well.

  164. 164.

    Frankensteinbeck

    Any Republican Speaker is going to be an extreme asshole whose political positions are almost all loathsome.  There aren’t any other kinds of Republican Representatives.

    What we’re looking for is someone who will bring must-pass legislation, almost all of it budget stuff, to a floor vote.  Otherwise the House will continue to be a useless circus until 2025.  We’re in the minority, we can’t expect anything else.

    If Jeffries somehow manages to achieve more, I will revere the man as a god-king crafted from the soul fires by the merciful gods and sent to us as a champion we can never deserve.

    But as far as Republican nominees are concerned, I don’t care if they’re evil assholes.  I take that as a given.  I care whether they’re sane enough they want to keep the lights on and the government coasting along.

  165. 165.

    Another Scott

    Meanwhile, … GovExec.com story about Biden’s big emergency funding request:

    Under the request, U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Services would gain 1,600 new asylum officers, Border Patrol would net 1,300 new agents, Customs and Border Protection would see 1,000 new officers and Immigration and Customs Enforcement would add 1,470 attorneys. The latter hiring would accompany 375 immigration judges within Justice’s Executive Office of Immigration Review and support staff for each of them. All told in the president’s immigration and border security request, Biden is seeking about $8.7 billion for DHS, $1.7 billion for Justice and $3 billion spread between the departments of Labor, Health and Human Services and State, as well as the U.S. Agency for International Development.

    […]

    The package faces a daunting challenge in Congress, both for its overall size and given the lack of a speaker in the House. Without such a leader, the chamber is unable to move any legislation. Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, the Republican nominee for speaker, failed in a third straight vote on the speakership on Friday and the conference has yet to announce any plans for resolving the deadlock.

    Filling Biden’s request would also prove operationally challenging, as DHS components have for a decade struggled to hire to their authorized levels. The asylum officer and ICE attorney plans would more than double those workforces.

    In addition to the immigration and border security funding, Biden is asking for $61 billion in aid for Ukraine, $14 billion in aid for Israel, $10 billion in humanitarian assistance for Israel, Gaza and others and $4 billion for security assistance in the Indo-Pacific and other efforts to dissuade countries from working with China.

    “It’s a smart investment that’s going to pay dividends for American security for generations, help us keep American troops out of harm’s way, help us build a world that is safer, more peaceful, and more prosperous for our children and grandchildren,” Biden said in a national address on Thursday evening.

    A smart package – something for the GQP screamers about border security, etc.

    Gotta get a Speaker first, of course, but the carrots may help move the process along.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  166. 166.

    MattF

    Emmer, as the Republican House Whip, has a demonstrated inability to count. Probably not an ideal problem for a Speaker to have, but I’m in favor of incompetence here, truth to tell.

  167. 167.

    bbleh

    @Martin: the tension here is between “jeez we gotta get something done” and “never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”  I happen to think we are still well on the side of the latter.  It will always be possible to pass a hurry-up CR that just kicks the can, and one presumes that enough pressure will be brought to bear by the donor class that enough Republicans would go along with it.  So I’d say, nah, break out the popcorn, keep hammering the Republicans in social media, and let the MSM (surprisingly!) do the same on their channels.

  168. 168.

    Chris Johnson

    If Trumpworld hates him, that’s all I need to know. _I’M_ not going to vote for him, ever, for anything. But given there is not one good Republican in that awful place I’m rooting for whoever Trumpworld hates most.

    If the Putin wing hate this guy in particular, maybe it’s for a reason I would appreciate.

  169. 169.

    Scout211

    Judge Chutkan pauses gag order

    US District Judge Tanya Chutkan on Friday temporarily froze the gag order she issued on Donald Trump in the former president’s federal 2020 election subversion criminal case.
    . . .
    Chutkan also said that the Justice Department has until Wednesday to respond to Trump’s request for a longer pause on the gag order and that Trump would have until the following Saturday to reply to the government’s filing.

    Trump has already appealed the gag order to the DC Circuit Court of Appeals and in a 33-page filing on Friday, his attorneys urged Chutkan to pause the order while that appeal plays

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