Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

I’m sure you banged some questionable people yourself. We’re allowed to grow past that.

You are so fucked. Still, I wish you the best of luck.

It could be worse. Vance could have said “post-menopausal sows.” Waiting for that audiotape to surface.

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

This fight is for everything.

SCOTUS: It’s not “bribery” unless it comes from the Bribery region of France. Otherwise, it’s merely “sparkling malfeasance”.

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Republicans are radicals, not conservatives.

We’re not going back!

Chutkan laughs. Lauro sits back down.

The choice is between normal and crazy.

People are weird.

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

Peak wingnut was a lie.

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

I’m more Christian than these people and I’m an atheist.

He seems like a smart guy, but JFC, what a dick!

Every reporter and pundit should have to declare if they ever vacationed with a billionaire.

Republican speaker of the house Mike Johnson is the bland and smiling face of evil.

I really should read my own blog.

Nothing worth doing is easy.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / 2024 Primaries / Late Night Open Thread: News of the ‘Independent’ Candidates

Late Night Open Thread: News of the ‘Independent’ Candidates

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Latest development!

Ed Kilgore, Democratic professional observer, at NYMag:

When Robert F. Kennedy Jr. dropped out of the Democratic presidential primary and announced an independent bid, plenty of Democrats understandably worried that the former environmentalist and current conspiracy hound would represent another threat to Joe Biden’s reelection. Kennedy inherited, after all, the most famous name in Democratic politics. He’s been considered a progressive — albeit a wacky one — for many years. His campaign manager during his abandoned primary campaign was the perennial champion of lefty lefties, Dennis Kucinich. And polls regularly showed him with a significant following as a Biden challenger in those primaries…

But one of the first public-opinion surveys to both measure and analyze a potential RFK Jr. vote in a three-way race shows a very different outcome, as USA Today reports:

It’s a tie: One year before the presidential election, Joe Biden and Donald Trump each command 37% of the vote in a new USA TODAY/Suffolk University Poll — with independent candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr. costing Trump what would have been a narrow lead.

Kennedy, scion of the nation’s most revered Democratic family, won 13% of the vote in a hypothetical match-up, drawing voters who by 2-1 said they would otherwise support the probable Republican nominee.

When you think about it, Kennedy as a drain on Republican votes isn’t that surprising. As an irritant to Biden, for months he received substantial and largely positive conservative-media coverage. He has played to that audience by emphasizing his long-time anti-vaxx credentials and a “populist” hostility to liberal elites. And his decision to run as an independent shows he has figured out a Democratic-primary campaign would leave a significant share of his following out in the cold…

To be clear, any assessment of Kennedy’s ultimate impact on the 2024 general election is highly speculative. For one thing, it’s unclear where he will be able to secure ballot access. For another, to the extent his popularity depends on low-information “I hate everybody” voters, overall voter-turnout levels could have a massive effect on his appeal. It’s also likely his current support levels in the polls will steadily decline as November 2024 approaches, since that is almost always the case with non-major-party candidates whose backers choose not to throw away their votes.

But for right now, of all the things Biden supporters need to worry about as obstacles to the incumbent’s second term, RFK Jr. is likely to become a minor consideration and perhaps even an ace in the hole.

 


Pretty much exactly who you’d expect, per Politico:

… Robert F. Kennedy Jr. — the environmental lawyer-turned-vaccine skeptic who has never held public office — raised more money in the latest fundraising period than anyone else running for president other than Donald Trump, Joe Biden and Ron DeSantis…

According to Federal Election Commission reports, Kennedy’s donors represent a range of professionals from across the entertainment industry. A stuntwoman, multiple entertainers and full-time YouTubers are among those who have contributed. So has Oliver Stone, who directed the film “JFK” about the government’s involvement in the assassination of the former president and uncle of the candidate. Stone has already given the maximum amount possible to Kennedy’s campaign — and a Stone family member has made a smaller donation…

A significant chunk of Kennedy’s backers work in the health industry. There are physicians, dentists, psychologists and nurses, who make up more than $500,000 of Kennedy’s haul to date. And there’s also a brigade of practitioners of alternative medicine, including chiropractors, who brought an additional $120,000 worth of support to the Kennedy coffers…

Self-designated “moms” and “homemakers” — they list their occupations as such — are also part of Kennedy’s coalition, backing his campaign to the tune of $230,000. While there’s nothing in the FEC records to indicate that any of these individuals are vaccine skeptics, they have been a core constituency of Kennedy’s support from before his presidential bid began.

Kennedy’s opposition to efforts to vaccinate against Covid-19, even while running as a Democrat, have made him an attractive candidate to some donors on the right. A POLITICO analysis of campaign finance data found that at least $100,000 from donors who previously gave to committees associated with Florida Gov. Ron DeSantis or former President Donald Trump donated to Kennedy in the first few months after his launch — and the total from ex-Trump donors continued to grow in the most recent quarter.

Sounds… well, ‘legit’ is not the first word that crosses my mind…

Another photo for the history books:

======

RatF*vcker Jr League, despite the ‘unearned confidence of a mediocre (rich) white man’, will never match the audacity of self-made philosopher Cornel West, IMO:

Upon reflection, Brother West did announce he was returning Crowe’s generous donation, for all the good that’s gonna do him. (His campaign ads still highlight the approval of Sean Hannity and Bill Maher, however, because ‘we will not allow organized greed to have the last word’.)

Reader Interactions

77Comments

  1. 1.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    primarily right-leaning, who simply want a lunatic with strong name recognition.

    See: Strom Thurmond; 1948, George Wallace, 1968.

  2. 2.

    Balconesfault

    I hoped to see the video of the spirited discussion between Crowes friends … West and Ginny Thomas … aboard one of Crowes yachts.

    I guess they could agree on how bad Obama and Biden suck.

  3. 3.

    David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch

    our decadent culture

    West speaks from experience:

    West currently owes more than half a million dollars between unpaid taxes and unpaid child support, according to tax records.

    Records show West owes nearly $466,000 in federal income taxes from 2013 until 2017. This came after he accrued (and later repaid) a debt of nearly $725,000 from 1998-2005, and more than $34,000 in 2008, according to tax records in Mercer County, New Jersey – where he owns a home.

    Additionally, West has an outstanding $49,500 child support judgement from 2003, records show.

  4. 4.

    Aussie Sheila

    Cornel West is the Black equivalent of Elmer Gantry. He’s so phony, only white racists could be fooled.

    His smarmy, faux black preacher shtick can be seen through from half way across the world. He couldn’t even maintain membership of the US Greens and god knows that seems as easy as being drunk on payday. What a buffoon. Hope he sinks like a stone.

  7. 7.

    Ben Cisco

    @Aussie Sheila: I have found, in my own experience, that there is a distinct difference between youngs I encounter in meatspace vs what I see of those online. NO ONE I have encountered in real life is falling for the hype.

    As a sysadmin in my day job, I am… skeptical of the online left. Bots, rodent copulators and fools; the source, in the end, is irrelevant when the result is the same.

  9. 9.

    WereBear

    I remember Perot. Who knew the power of diagrams? He got 20% of the vote with pre-PowerPoint style presentations of how the national debt will kill us. Unwittingly fueling the right wing obsession with it, perhaps?

    Because no one runs it up like recent Republicans.

  10. 10.

    Tony Jay

    FFS. Surely West’s choleric whines are excellent parodies that should be wrapped in in blazing *** Jackal News *** banners? They can’t be real. No one who is genuinely that divorced from reality could function in a world that requires the wearing of underwear on the inside of our pants.

    Also too, how nice to see the FTFNYT pumping the emergency brakes on Really Freakin’ Kooky’s campaign now they recognise he’s cutting into the Clickbait Con’s margin. Way to show the world who you really are, arseholes.

  15. 15.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Aussie Sheila: West now seems to be angling for support among progressive-left voters who oppose US support for Israel in the current conflict. Since there’s no major candidate for them, that’s an opening.

  16. 16.

    Ben Cisco

    @sab: I am relieved to hear it.

    I go into election season knowing we’re fighting:

    • Republicans
    • “Independents”
    • MSM
    • “Fringe” media
    • Press Corpse
    • Online left

    Once you get this, it gets easier.

  17. 17.

    WereBear

    @Ben Cisco: It is an amazing array of power, but they do manage to shoot themselves in many places.

    Our own impulses to rush forward with bandages has been worn away :) I am ruthless now.

  18. 18.

    Betty Cracker

    I’d forgotten about Kucinich’s improbable bride until reminded by the photo in a tweet above. Lord knows the former congressman is a mixed bag, but I’m a sucker for a love story.

  19. 19.

    Ben Cisco

    @WereBear: I am cheered on multiple levels. Within my extended family, I am the oldest of my generation. My younger brother and I are the only Boomers. The youngest was all about blowing stuff up until TRE45ON landed in the chair. Experience can be a brutal teacher.

  20. 20.

    RobArt

    All those GOP donors are so awful that I had forgotten that this one was the one with the shrines to evil! That is, until Brother West went out of his way to defend it, thereby digging himself in deeper in the very announcement that he was distancing himself from the man! Talk about muddled messaging!

    “Fine! Y’all won’t let me keep this money, but I want to make it clear that I am in no way sorry. Ok?”

    There that should settle it.

  21. 21.

    Nukular Biskits

    Good mornin’, y’all!

    I often wonder how reasonably mature (?) and sane (?) Americans could ever possibly support candidates like RFK Jr. and Cornel West … and then I’m reminded that here in MS, a tainted governor with a major scandal on his hands, still is running neck-in-neck with his Democratic challenger.

    “low-information ‘I hate everybody” voters'” indeed.

  23. 23.

    Betty Cracker

    @Nukular Biskits: I hope Elvis’s nephew whups the ever-lovin’ crap outta the talking canned ham!

    PS: Also, congrats to everyone in this thread so far for spelling West’s first name correctly, thus averting the appearance of a flying wedge of pedants shouting “CORNEL” in all caps.

  24. 24.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Betty Cracker:

    I hope Elvis’s nephew whups the ever-lovin’ crap outta the talking canned ham!

    I have my fingers crossed … but there is a reason that I have this on my Twitter profile:

    “When the end of the world comes, I want to be in Mississippi because it’s always 50 years behind.”

  25. 25.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Nukular Biskits: There’s always someone jumping in to complain about how they’re “tired of polishing the shiniest turd” etc. etc. and just want to blow up the system. I just saw another one over on Mastodon.

  26. 26.

    Tony Jay

    @Ben Cisco

    Cornel West

    @cornelwest

    Fear the stranger. Fear the interloper. By these precepts Egypt’s Pharaohs ruled over their lands as gods. Divinely approved Othering to justify the enslavement of entire peoples. How sad it is that America’s Pharoah refuses to learn any new tricks! Our God believes in second chances and said “Let the sinner come to me and repent”. We gave Brother Harlan, who we respect even as we disagree with him, that chance and threatened the corrupt duopoly of Republican and Democrat, so Pharoah brought his armies to our door. But do we relent? No! Will we accept the chains of subservience that are the price a free Black man must pay to stand in the public square? No! Will you, my brothers and sisters, dig deep to keep us in this fight? Yes! For Peace, Love and Freedom. #standuptopharoah #TruthJusticeLove #winwithwest24

  28. 28.

    Tony Jay

    @prostratedragon:

    Much the same as all those pictures on the wall of his friend Harlan Crow’s ‘Never Forget (How Kewl Fascism Is)’ reliquary, I’d imagine. No one else can see them move, but when his eyes are closed and the Jazz riffs swell, he just knows they’re nodding approvingly.

    Damn. I really should have added something about Coltrane in that parody. The line about being a ‘Jazzman’ in the genuine article was just Chef’s Kiss mockable.

  29. 29.

    Another Scott

    @David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch: I’m reminded that Wallace ran in 1972 too, as a Democrat, and was shot at a campaign event in Maryland.

    Nixon probably would have still won in 1972, but the dynamics of the race might have been very different if that event had not happened. 3-way races can be very unstable. Especially in times of social upheaval.

    I’m convinced that the push to balance the budget under Clinton was in part driven by fear of the Perot vote. He had a big impact even though he didn’t win…

    Gotta keep an eye on these people, and not take their voters for granted. The messenger may be a whacko, but their votes count as much as ours do. We need to understand the appeal – not to pander to them, but to figure out why they’re attracted to loons and how to get them back to sanity.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  32. 32.

    Falling Diphthong

    All that positive media attention for Kennedy’s anti-vaxx views and conspiracy mongering is having an effect.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!

  33. 33.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Another Scott: Budget hawkery had broad bipartisan support in those days. It’s kind of amazing that Clinton actually managed to do it, though. I remember the resulting handwringing articles about how, actually technically, running a budget surplus was a bad thing. Didn’t last long anyway.

  35. 35.

    BretH

    Funny thing … haven’t heard boo about Hunter Biden for a couple weeks now. It’s almost as if the Republican House Speaker clown show preventing them from hyping it at every opportunity has left the MSM with nothing to report about it.

    In the words of Charles P Pierce “Eeeeeetz a puzzler!”

  37. 37.

    Matt McIrvin

    The number of people in the mainstream healthcare industry who support antivax and other alt-medicine crankery has always been depressing to me. I remember that when I got my knee replacement in early 2021, I wasn’t even eligible to get vaccinated yet and they could–but a substantial number of them were refusing to get the shots, and that freaked me out. They were trying to screen, but in hindsight it’s kind of a miracle I didn’t get COVID in the hospital.

  38. 38.

    Betty Cracker

    @Another Scott:

    We need to understand the appeal – not to pander to them, but to figure out why they’re attracted to loons and how to get them back to sanity.

    That’s a mighty tall order. The unfortunate reality is that millions of people are so addled and ignorant and hateful that the country is better off if they don’t exercise their franchise. But we’re a democracy, so they have the right. If I were in charge of counter-rat-shagging operations, I’d use the paranoia of these folks to discourage them from voting at all, e.g., “RFK Jr. is a secret agent for Big Pharma!” and “Cornel West is Harlan Crow’s tool!” — pass it on!

  39. 39.

    Another Scott

    @Betty Cracker: I am a fan of hard problems.  ;-)

    Remember Biden’s interview with ProPublica.  He was explicit about appealing to people that aren’t Democrats now, talking about understanding and Respect and Dignity, etc.  People don’t like change, and especially don’t like to change their minds.  It’s a long process.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  40. 40.

    Geminid

    @Betty Cracker: How about: “Cornel West’s campaign is a fraud. He’s not really running for President, he’s trying to get a job writing for Hallmark Cards.”

  41. 41.

    Steeplejack

    @Tony Jay:

    The line about being a ‘Jazzman’ in the genuine article was just Chef’s Kiss mockable.

    Inorite. I’m still 😳 about. But I haven’t had my coffee yet.

  42. 42.

    Steeplejack

    Weird weather here in NoVA: frost warning last night and 41° now but going up to 70° today. And balmy the rest of the week.

  44. 44.

    Yarrow

    @Tony Jay:  

    The line about being a ‘Jazzman’ in the genuine article was just Chef’s Kiss mockable

    Right? “As a jazzman…” LOL. What does he even think he’s saying?

  47. 47.

    Blue Galangal

    My mom, who now “hates” Trump and “never understood what anyone would see in him”, would vote for RFK in a heartbeat. He pushes all her 80 year old buttons: a Kennedy, an antivaxxer, and the liberals hate him.

    She’d never vote Demoncrat, btw, because they’re all sucking the blood of babies/small business/taking orders from Obama. She says this in the same breath where she decries my “tribalism” and refusal to consider voting R.

  48. 48.

    Tony Jay

    @Ben Cisco:

    It is a truth self-evident that you can put the most ridiculous load of delusional garbage in the mouth of fools and be they foolish enough, it will match them most exquisitely.

    ETA (Moderated? Me? How very dare you!)

  49. 49.

    Betty Cracker

    @Another Scott: We all have our part to play. I’m not a politician, and I’m temperamentally incapable of treating drooling anti-vax loons with (unearned and unreturned!) dignity and respect, so surreptitious efforts to convince them to disenfranchise themselves are more appealing to me. ;-)

  50. 50.

    Steeplejack

    @Tony Jay:

    That clip is “nice”!

    I think “jazzman” is on the list of things where if you feel compelled to mention that you are one it’s almost guaranteed that you’re not one.

  51. 51.

    Steeplejack

    @Tony Jay:

    That clip is “nice”!

    I think “jazzman” is on the list of things where if you feel compelled to mention that you are one it’s almost guaranteed that you’re not one.

  54. 54.

    prostratedragon

    Tony Jay@28: The line about being a ‘Jazzman’ in the genuine article was just Chef’s Kiss mockable.
    Covered that @8.

  56. 56.

    Anyway

    I go into election season knowing we’re fighting:

    • Republicans
    • “Independents”
    • MSM
    • “Fringe” media
    • Press Corpse
    • Online left
    • Totebaggers
    • Too cool for skool contrarians
    • Disruptors

    Hell of a slog but what’s the alternative…

  57. 57.

    prostratedragon

    @prostratedragon: I should probably note that my late father knew West’s grandfather, who was in the same denomination conference as my own grandfather. Doubt Dad would be too pleased; he did live long enough to see West starting to get snippy about Obama.

  58. 58.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Another Scott:

    I’m convinced that the push to balance the budget under Clinton was in part driven by fear of the Perot vote. He had a big impact even though he didn’t win…

    The thing is, the Democrats basically DID end up balancing the budget. Didn’t mean a thing. Got no credit.

    Republicans blew the surplus and blew any attempts to balance the budget. Over and over. Didn’t mean a thing. Got no blame.

  59. 59.

    Ken

    @BretH: Funny thing … haven’t heard boo about Hunter Biden for a couple weeks now. It’s almost as if the Republican House Speaker clown show preventing them from hyping it at every opportunity has left the MSM with nothing to report about it.

    Do you suppose this hiatus will cause any news organization to notice that their stories haven’t been about what Hunter Biden did, but about what Republicans claim he did?

    I seriously doubt it, but I’d say the odds are better than that any of them would assign reporters to investigate Hunter Biden themselves, rather than relying on Republicans to feed them.

  60. 60.

    Suzanne

    @Ben Cisco:

    I have found, in my own experience, that there is a distinct difference between youngs I encounter in meatspace vs what I see of those online. NO ONE I have encountered in real life is falling for the hype.

    As a sysadmin in my day job, I am… skeptical of the online left. Bots, rodent copulators and fools; the source, in the end, is irrelevant when the result is the same.
     

    Oh my God, yes this. Like, Spawn the Elder and his friends are pretty damn far on the side of the left. My BIL is really left and absolutely loves Bernie. And I work with a lot of very recent college grads, many of whom lean left.

    And I just…. never see the crazy shit that everyone who spends too much time on Xhitter assures me is real. Even my BIL sucked it up both times in the general and voted for Hillary and Joey B. No one’s “cheering on Hamas”, no one’s “canceling” anybody for not using their pronouns.

    OTOH, I went to high school with lots of avowed white supremacists, and I see those tattoos…. with some frequency. I see white dudes with guns often.

    It’s almost like the right wing white patriarchy is trying to distract me with a squirrel.

  61. 61.

    gvg

    @Matt McIrvin: Never looked at Qanon, but judging from tabloids like National Inquirer, their readers are locked in various groundhog days and don’t really change, they just repeat the same old things time and time again. Once something enters their culture, it stays, which is why a Kennedy gets some interest, I guess.

    Making sense is not desired. Maybe it’s memory of emotion?

    I’ve only known one woman who read that kind if magazine and she was gullible. Her children, luckily were not.

  62. 62.

    Ken

    @Steeplejack: I think “jazzman” is on the list of things where if you feel compelled to mention that you are one it’s almost guaranteed that you’re not one.

    It’s a little like insisting people use your title “doctor”, even in contexts where it doesn’t matter.

  63. 63.

    Lacuna Synecdoche

    zeddy via Anne Laurie @ Top:

    The story from Ross Perot to Trump to RFK Jr is that there’s a solid 12% of voters, primarily right-leaning, who simply want a lunatic with strong name recognition.

    So, instead of The Hateful Eight, we get The Stupidest Eighth.

  64. 64.

    Another Scott

    @Matt McIrvin: @Chief Oshkosh: And the handwringers were right – running a surplus is generally a bad thing (it’s leaving money on the table that could be used to make things better faster).  Small deficits (up to, say, 3% of GDP) are good.

    But, as you say, economo-politically irrelevant.  There was no come-to-Jesus, by God the Democrats are right! moment. No sea change, no grand benefit to Democrats.

    Yeah, Clinton’s success showed that the oh-so-serious deficit hawks and Fed chairmen and so forth were just political hacks.

    Still, I think the point stands.  Right or wrong, smart politicians saw that lots of voters wanted some real progress on getting the federal budget toward balance.  The oh-my-god Read-My-Lips NO we’ll NEVER raise taxes or ELSE folks lost.  It helped break through that wall.

    “Reagan proved deficits don’t matter.”

    Humans are weird.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    @Ken:

    I used to play racquetball with a dentist who was a pretty good amateur photographer and signed all his photographs “[His Name], D.D.S.” WTF, dude.

  68. 68.

    Chris Johnson

    @Betty Cracker: Not at all. Some of the lefties have ended up getting a pretty good handle on it. Look up Innuendo Studios and ‘There’s Always A Bigger Fish’.

    There are people who legitimately believe hierarchy rules all things and has moral force, meaning that the richest and most powerful are ALWAYS the most virtuous and that the poor and failing are by definition, literally bad and wrong.

    These people have half a point. Hierarchy, capitalism, competition, all that stuff, have SOME value. But oversimplifying it is a grave mistake: if you study artificial life and the genetic algorithm you quickly find out about concepts like ‘local maximums’ that apply, here.

    In other words, yes competition, but also people always cheat, and valuable things are brought by outsiders into stiflingly exclusionary insider circles. And THAT is what stuff like welfare and liberal values, promotes. Our left wing bleeding heart loser-helping is in fact a vital part OF competition, because you can’t make it too easy for the winners.

    These seemingly crazy rightwingers usually ignore this and assume you can simplify it: if someone wins, it proves they’re meant to win and rule and the more they win the better they must be.

    And that’s nonsense, because people cheat, especially rightwingers who think that if they win, that’s all you need to claim moral victory.

    And that is why rightwingers continue to worship hacks and poltroons and cheaters. It is not only insanity, there’s a rationale in there driving it, and the key is hierarchy and the sanctity of winners over losers, the sinfulness of propping up losers.

  70. 70.

    Manyakitty

     

     

    @Ben Cisco: as an admittedly ignorant white lady, does the pharaoh reference connect him to the laughable ‘hoteps’ I’ve read about in sources like The Root?

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