The Framers taught us that the biggest threat to religious freedom comes from theocrats who try to establish their own sect over everyone else.
That’s why we have two religion clauses in the First Amendment. pic.twitter.com/FI4fUqkeg1— Rep. Jamie Raskin (@RepRaskin) October 25, 2023
If you're not poasting are you even alive. https://t.co/phzsglt0Mt
— Not up for trouble, please stop asking (@agraybee) October 23, 2023
Exclusive: As child-care crisis looms, Biden prepares to ask Congress for $16 billion in new state funding https://t.co/Gepe8ud1uI
— Abha Bhattarai (@abhabhattarai) October 25, 2023
Per the Washington Post, “As child-care crisis looms, Biden asks Congress for urgent help”:
… The funds account for about one-third of the roughly $56 billion the White House is seeking for domestic needs, including high-speed internet access and natural-disaster relief. It comes on the heels of a separate $106 billion request for international priorities, including funding for Ukraine and Israel.
The White House is also asking Congress to approve $23 billion in disaster relief, including for the wildfires that struck Hawaii and floods in California and Vermont; $6 billion to extend internet access for millions of low-income households; and billions more for communications infrastructure and energy needs, as well as money to counter fentanyl and prevent firefighters battling wildfires from seeing their pay cut…
The child-care funds, which would be distributed to all 50 states and the District of Columbia, would provide a year of stabilization funding for more than 225,000 child-care providers throughout the country. Many received similar allotments during the pandemic, when Congress set aside a record $24 billion to help keep child-care facilities open.
The last of those funds expired at the end of September, leaving many providers struggling to stay open. As many as 1 in 3 child-care centers could soon close, leaving some 3.2 million children without care, according to estimates from the Century Foundation, a liberal think tank. Some child care providers say they’ve already had to lay off workers or raise fees to make up for the loss in federal funding, and many expect the situation to become even more dire in coming months…
Improving child care and making it more affordable has become a key priority for the Biden administration. White House officials say renewed funding would help preserve existing child-care slots while also providing financial help to families who rely on care to get to work. In April, the president signed an executive order calling on federal agencies to “do what they can … to boost the supply of high-quality early care.”
The $16 billion request from President Biden matches what Democrats in Congress had called for last month. The funding would go directly to states and ranges from $15 million apiece for Wyoming and Vermont to $1.8 billion for Texas.
Who *cares* about this momfare crap? We wanna President talking tough about massive boom-booms and mighty weapons!…
On The Road – BigJimSlade – German and Austrian Alps, Summer 2023, part 7
SiubhanDuinne
Good morning, everyone! I’ll read the serious stuff after I’ve had my coffee.
In the meantime, and on a decidedly superficial note, Jill Biden looked absolutely fucking drop-dead gorgeous at last night’s state dinner for the Aussies.
Anne Laurie
@SiubhanDuinne: I’m saving the State Dinner tweets for a post later in the day, when (I’m somehow sure) we’ll need a respite…
(Looked damned classy, didn’t it?)
Jackie
From Political, 55 things to know about Mike Johnson:
https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2023/10/26/mike-johnson-house-speaker-55-things-to-know-00123593
Just Some Fuckhead
Pretty soon, it’s going to be illegal to even own a woman.
eclare
@SiubhanDuinne:
Yes, she did. I was surprised Joe didn’t wear a tux.
lowtechcyclist
I said at the time that the Dems should have blocked Gaetz’ motion to vacate, but informed McCarthy that if he didn’t let a Ukraine aid bill get to the floor, he’d be on his own after that.
Maybe Spineless Kevin would have caved, or maybe not. But at least the odds were decent, and worst case would have been being back in the same place as we are now, only a few weeks later. It was a free play.
OzarkHillbilly
I got vaccinated yesterday, covid booster and flu shot. As per usual, other than a sore arm (actually 2) no after effects.
Chief Oshkosh
@Jackie: Politico did an excellent job of softening the edges. They’ll get a good performance review.
rikyrah
Good Morning Everyone 😊😊😊
p.a.
Can’t wait for the media to begin every interview with Speaker Poindexter by asking him who he thinks won the 2020 Presidential election. Gonna happen, right? 🤔
Manyakitty
@p.a.: find every DC reporter you can on the social medias and ask them about it. Never hurts to remind them about their actual jobs.
Gregory
Every time the Republicans or the so-called “liberal media” blames the Democrats for McCarthy’s ouster and the subsequent chaos, the response should be “How many House Republicans voted for Nancy Pelosi?”, repeated as needed until they stop doing it.
John S.
@p.a.:
Either reporters will smell the blood in the water here and continue to ask the question, or they will roll over and succumb to their GOP daddies.
prostratedragon
The mere fact that someone thinks there are as many as 55 things we need to know about Mike Johnson is depressing.
OzarkHillbilly
Pretty cool. Gotta love that James Webb telescope.
mrmoshpotato
@prostratedragon: Haha! The only thing we need to know is that he’s a Rethuglican.
Scout211
It’s hard to find any news lately that feels good. But Trump’s day in court yesterday is one of those news stories that is worth repeating.
His comeuppance from the judge and the “not credible” defense of his smear of the law clerk, plus the $10,000 fine has been well-discussed here. It is very satisfying and deserves to be savored.
I posted somewhere yesterday about the other satisfying thing from yesterday’s fraud trial. It also deserves some savoring. Cohen admitted that Trump did not specifically ask that he lie about Trump’s finances. The defense wanted to trial to be over at that point but the judge refused. Trump was so mad after that, he walked out in disgust. It was great. He actually thought that he had “won” the trial in that moment and told that to the reporters outside the courtroom.
I am beginning to think that Trump insisting that he be present at this trial was not a wise decision. LOL. Plus, one witness (among many witnesses) who gave conflicting testimony and Trump and his attorneys believe they can declare a win and go home?* WTF?
Again, seeing Trump trying to control the judicial system (like he thinks he can control everything) and get shot down and humiliated is a thing to savor this morning. I just hope he doesn’t stay out of the courtroom in the future.
*ETA: I think I saw that very thing happen on an episode of Perry Mason. LOL
stinger
@OzarkHillbilly: Got my covid booster yesterday, too. Completely forgot about it afterward — no pain at all — but woke up this morning with a slightly stiff arm. Probably because, since it didn’t hurt yesterday, I neglected to keep working that arm as I usually do after a shot. Had the flu shot 3 weeks ago, nothing but a stiff arm again.
mrmoshpotato
@OzarkHillbilly: Spectacular.
SiubhanDuinne
@John S.:
It was the loathsome Virginia Foxx who snarled “Shut up! Shut up!” at the reporter. Can’t express how much I detest that woman.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Scout211: I enjoyed Kos’s live blog of the fraud trial yesterday. Trump apparently hasn’t yet realized that he’s already been found guilty. In addition to witnesses, there’s a mountain of paper evidence.
dmsilev
@prostratedragon: I only got a few entries down on the list before I decided that no, I really didn’t need to know most or all of those factoids. Hey, when he was a kid he wanted to be a fireman!
I guess the writer had a word count target to hit?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@stinger: I’ve taken to getting shots in my right arm because I move it more without thinking about it. It seems to help.
schrodingers_cat
@SiubhanDuinne: How is your injury? I hope that you are healing well.
ETA: Have you colored anything off late?
Soprano2
Wow, the economy grew at a 4.9% clip in the last quarter, much faster than the experts thought. It confirms what the O’Boys said – people’s feelings about the economy and the president are directly connected to how high the price of gasoline is. Get the price of gasoline down under $3/gal in most places, and people will suddenly start feeling better about things.
Nukular Biskits
@OzarkHillbilly:
Got both COVID booster (Pfizer this time … all previous were Moderna) & flu shots last last Friday.
No ill effects, other than I’m my own 5G source now …
TS
New government data released Thursday by the Bureau of Economic Analysis shows that gross domestic product expanded between July and September, capping five straight quarters of growth and eluding a long-feared recession.
The economy’s resilience is a product of a strong job market and extra pandemic savings, which have made it possible for people to keep spending despite inflation and rising interest rates. Robust government hiring — including 214,000 new jobs between July and September — also added to overall strength.
“It’s enough to knock me over with a feather,” said Diane Swonk, chief economist at KPMG.
The economists, the media, the voters (well those polled) can’t believe things are going well economically – because only the GOP is good at managing the economy
https://wapo.st/40943Oj (gift link)
stinger
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Good idea!
Eolirin
@Soprano2: God, we need to be done with gas vehicles yesterday, just so we don’t have to deal with this stupidity, never mind the climate change implications.
@TS: I’m sure the rapid wage growth at the bottom end of the income distribution had nothing to do with it.
Denali5
Alexandra Petri put out a wonderful opinion in the Washington Post about how Johnson accepted the results of an election, as did the other Republicans who have been embarrassing themselves for weeks. Funny how that works.
prostratedragon
mrmoshpotato@16: Yeah, that’s struggle enough for me.
p.a.
Well time for the Fed to break out the garrotte. Everyone knows the economy can’t function when it benefits employees.
HinTN
The response to every complaint should be, “The Republicans don’t care about you!”
HinTN
@OzarkHillbilly:
I do, indeed. I also love the term kilonova.
davecb
@OzarkHillbilly:
Joyce and I got our boosters yesterday too, up here in Toronto
prostratedragon
dmsilev@23: Omigod!8D!8D!
Geminid
@TS: I think spending from the ARA, Infrastructure, CHIPS+ and IRA bills is to a large degree responsible for the strong economy. Democrats got their counter-cyclical spending in early, in the last Congress. They are proving that “trickle up” economics works.
In addition to the current economic effects, many of these expenditures represent judicious investments that will lead to economic growth in coming years.
MomSense
One of my coworkers has a daughter who is a first year at Bates. She spent the night with her classmates on the floor of the library. They were finally escorted by law enforcement to their dorms this morning.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@p.a.: The UAW seems to have negotiated a good contract with Ford. That should help keep the economy doing well. The trickle-down people somehow miss that we’re a consumer economy
ETA: What Geminid said.
dmsilev
@MomSense: Sigh. The world we live in, now.
Thanks, “gun rights” assholes. Thanks a lot.
Suzanne
@Soprano2: I think the cost of housing is a huge part of why people feel down about the economy. This is one of those issues that the president doesn’t really have too much to do with, and therefore he shouldn’t be getting hell for it…. but it’s a huge problem. It’s a generational bomb to people’s finances. Buying a house is going to be impossible for a lot of people, for their whole lives, and that’s the primary way we build wealth and stability in this country. Relocation is very difficult, which we need for a dynamic economy over time. It impacts relationships and family.
I frequently see it commented here that the economy is great and why doesn’t Joe get credit. It’s because 40% (or more) of people’s paychecks are being flushed down the drain on rent.
davecb
@John S. wrote:
The ownership of “liberal” newspapers by Republican and Conservative “daddies” is spreading into Canada from the US.
Toronto has four newspapers, two very-right wing, one center-right and one center-left. The center-left paper was recently bought by two hard-right investors, who are now fighting over it in public, exposing the nature of their involvement (;-))
SiubhanDuinne
@schrodingers_cat:
Oh, thank you for asking. The bruising and abrasions are still pretty livid, and the cut on the eyebrow is startling to see but not bothersome — but nothing hurts and I seem to be functioning as well as I ever did, so now it’s just a matter of time.
Haven’t coloured much recently, but as the days draw in I’m sure I’ll be doing much more. That’s my usual pattern — colouring books and jigsaw puzzles are winter activities for me. (Cryptic crosswords, OTOH, are year-round delights!) I continue to be wonderfully impressed with your sense of the colour palette, and hope you continue to share your work.
Jeffro
@OzarkHillbilly: that is SO cool
thanks for sharing!
SiubhanDuinne
@MomSense:
How terrifying for them. I’m relieved to know they’re safe.
OGLiberal
Seeing the usual “mental health” BS around the latest mass shooting. What these folks fail to note is that their solution to “mental health” is to lock people up in 19th century buildings and torture them in way Geraldo Rivera never discovered. And all the better if they are brown folks.
Fucking monsters. How about not letting anybody buy an automatic weapon. And, yes, technically, AR-15s are not “automatic rifles”. But, by default, they fire a lot of rounds at one time, more than any skilled hunter would need. (if you need an AR-15 to hunt a) you aren’t a real hunter, b) you suck at hunting and c) a single shot rifle/shotgun is more accurate than just spraying the forest with bullets. And won’t help you protect your “castle” any more than a handgun or, even better, a SimpliSafe sign or loud dog. Plus, I’ve seen videos – easy to find – that show you how to make an AR-15 fully automatic without even buying a bump stock. The “mental health” BS is just another version of “groomer” when arguing against anything that helps non-“straight” people. Again, these people are monsters.
Ohio Mom
Twitter is weirder than ever. There are a few that I check every morning during breakfast — just went to Cole’s — and all the posts are gone. Instead there is a list of other Twitter sites I might like to follow.
I can’t be surprised of course but I can be sad at what I’ll be missing. I suppose there is a small chance it will be fixed, but an extremely tiny one.
Nukular Biskits
Can one go off topic in an open thread?
If so, mini-rant about flying (posting mobile so forgive the lack of formatting):
WTF do people refuse to stand to the right whilst on moving sidewalk?
WTF do family groups/associates/friends/etc think nothing of walking 4 or 5 abreast inan airport?
WTF is this new fashion trend of flying in one’s PJs and floppy slippers? Yes, I’m an old, but FFS,have some self respect.
WTF do TSA’s rules when going through security change constantly?
Have I ever mentioned how much I hate flying?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Nukular Biskits: And you’re just at the airport part.
Once you’re aboard, it’s like the airlines resent your getting on that plane and try to make you uncomfortable enough that you’ll never do it again
ETA: And then they wonder why passengers get hostile.
Geminid
@OGLiberal: In this instance, a “Red Flag” law allowing court-ordered seizure of an unstable person’s firearms might have changed the situation. I’m not sure what the data is on effects of “red flag” laws on shootings but intuitively, they must help some.
One of the six gun safety laws Virginia Democrats enacted in 2020 was a red flag law. Republicans tried to repeal them last year, but the state Senate stopped them. I don’t think Republican tried to repeal a sixth law that mandated securing firearms in homes where minors are present, with criminal penalties for non-compliance.
Ohio Mom
@Ohio Mom: Never mind. Whatever happened has been fixed.
patrick II
@Jackie:
At first I read that as SS things to know about Mike Johnson.
twbrandt
@Nukular Biskits: people who walk 4-5 abreast are always the slowest walkers on the planet. I hate that.
cain
@Scout211: like all mob bosses .. they tell you to do illegal things without incriminating themselves. It’s never a direct order.
schrodingers_cat
@Nukular Biskits: If they are on a long flight they are trying to get some sleep. PJ’s an floppy slippers kinda make sense. Flying internationally is ten times worse than domestic flights. I have never worn PJs to a flight but I do wear comfortable slip-on shoes and comfortable clothes.
sdhays
Indeed. I assume you were in a full suit and tie?
(I agree with you on the others, the TSA rules in particular – we have different rules at each of the airports in my metro area for no particular reason.)
OzarkHillbilly
@Nukular Biskits: I’m hearing voices in my head too but that’s nothing new. The last time they put me on medication, I had to stop taking it due to how lonely I was feeling.
Nukular Biskits
@schrodingers_cat:
International I could somewhat understand.
Although I do consider my home state of MS a third world country, GPT->ATL ain’t International.
Nukular Biskits
@sdhays:
I’m all about comfort while traveling (I’m currently wearing jeans. T-shirt & leather jacket) .
And while I might wear PJs to the local WalleyWorld, hours on a plane, no.
Nukular Biskits
Time to go back to airplane mode.
Geminid
@Nukular Biskits: GPT to Atlanta might not be international, but in ways it’s like time-traveling forward 50 years.
raven
@SiubhanDuinne: The B 52’s were there but it was decided that they would not perform because of the seriousness of the world.
OzarkHillbilly
No, but they are worlds apart.
mrmoshpotato
@raven: The world could use some Rock Lobster about now.
Mike in NC
@OzarkHillbilly: Got my RSV and flu shots yesterday. Yeah, feeling a bit sore in the upper arms. Wife also had her last colonoscopy and is in a much better mood after three days of eating nothing but lime Jello and drinking chicken broth. Yuck.
BlueGuitarist
@dmsilev:
looking at Johnson’s voting record yesterday it took only a few minutes to notice that one of the very few times that he voted the Biden position on an issue was re
“Making it easier for federally employed firefighters to get workers’ compensation”
probably the only time Johnson voted differently than the majority of Republicans.
Once again a minimum condition for Republicans thinking a problem should be addressed is that it affected someone in their immediate family, otherwise they don’t care or understand. These chrinos brag about their faith without a clue about how their lack of compassion makes it fake.
lowtechcyclist
@John S.:
Wait, I thought the Rethugs were against cancel culture. ;-)
(Yeah, I know, depends on who’s getting canceled. Duh.)
brendancalling
@Nukular Biskits: “WTF is this new fashion trend of flying in one’s PJs and floppy slippers? Yes, I’m an old, but FFS,have some self respect.”
It’s a lot easier and efficient than the whole belt and shoes routine, imo. And that makes the TSA gauntlet faster for your fellow passengers. No, it’s not classy—but you can always bring a change of clothes.
jonas
Favorite Obergruppenführer? Reinhard Heydrich.
Soprano2
@Eolirin: I know, but until we are it’s a fact of life that we’re stuck with. The O’Boys said they could track Obama’s approval numbers with the price of gas, that nothing else affected it like that did.
OGLiberal
@Nukular Biskits: I agree with you on all but the PJs and slippers. For anything other than a JFK to Logan or Dulles type flight that is what I would advise. I’ve never done it but being extra uncomfortable on plane because you are wearing uncomfortable clothes adds to the pain.
My wife and I used to love flying. Flew to London on Virgin Atlantic pre-9/11. My friends that I went with are both well over 6 feet tall so exit aisle was key. The one we got was near the flight attendants station. The nearest row in front of us was at least 6 feet away and was, basically, the attendants jump seats. Full meal, actual silverware….attendant offered scotch or Bailey’s post-meal…couldn’t decided, she suggested just take both. No extra cost. This was coach.
Now? My family and I hate flying, used to love it. I flew to Ireland soon after 9/11 – not much more than a month after. Not bad (not anywhere near as luxurious as the Virgin trip – typical coach class) – they were more worried about some sort of cattle virus. But since? Painful. Having toddlers take off their shoes before boarding? Just not fun. Also, seats are just way, way too narrow and they just keep getting worse. We’re in NJ, wife is from New Orleans. Many years ago we switched to just driving. As the driver, not very fun for me but a lot more fun and less stressful than flying.
Also, going back to flying from NYC to Logan or Dulles. Why bother? The amount of time it takes to prep, get to the airport, go through all the shit there, plane, de-plane, etc….you’d already be there if you drove. Or, if time is not of the essence and you want to reduce carbon footprint, just take a train. Bigger seats, more mobility, better scenery.
MazeDancer
@Suzanne: Housing is impossible for so many. Everyday, I thank my lucky stars for my sweet home with it’s 3.5% mortgage.
Pet lovers are particularly screwed. I follow this lady in New Zealand who is homeless because she refuses to give up her dog.
She is overwhelmed, in denial, and doesn’t know what to do. But needs her dog. I send her a little something when I can.
All those people sleeping in their cars in the PNW making 75K a year but have bad credit scores and pets.
And the corporate buying of houses to convert to rentals continues.
Geminid
@jonas:
#57: Johnson is often heard humming tbe song from The Producers, “Springtime for Hitler.”
MazeDancer
@eclare: Think both Joe and Doug opted for the groovy long tie tux look.
Frankensteinbeck
The Cohen admitting Trump didn’t order him to change values thing and Trump storming out is odd to me. Okay, on Trump’s side it makes sense. He was only there and keeping quiet because he thought he was going to totally Perry Mason the whole thing and have himself declared innocent with one Gotcha.
But isn’t Trump already guilty and this trial is just a “How much worse is your punishment going to get?” thing? And while not cataclysmic, Cohen’s changing his testimony seems like a big win for Trump.
I have no sense of the importance of this beyond ‘Trump is a childish idiot’, which we already knew.
Leto
@brendancalling: listen, if you’re not causing a 5 min delay to your fellow passengers by having to take your coat and tails off, then putting it all back on, are you really traveling? I suppose NB gets in a tizzy when those youngin’s aren’t in a suit and tie at the movies. Those talkies are a classy affair!
Suzanne
@MazeDancer: Housing is terrible. And it isn’t getting any better. If one is ever wondering why people feel shitty about the economy, I wish they could remember that.
If people — say, normal people with a 580 credit score and that have a household income of $50K per year — cannot buy a house, then they will never be able to improve their situation. It’ll be treading financial water for their whole lives.
I am generally someone who is sympathetic to regulation, but even I am often blown away in the course of my job at how many regulatory barriers there are to building things. The project I’ve been working on for over two years is a hospital, replacing a dead, shitty, suburban mall at a freeway interchange. It should be the easiest thing in the world to get municipality approval, because almost anything would be better than what is there. And yet.
Ken
Memo to the Baud administration: Remember to crash the economy, like the last several Republican presidents, to get those low low gas prices.
Leto
Johnson in 2003, in a guest column, denouncing the Supreme Court for throwing out sodomy laws. It’s fucking infuriating.
WereBear
@sdhays: Floppy slippers ARE a hazard.
But a snappy flannel outfit makes a world of difference to flying.
WereBear
@Mike in NC: We’re in the sticks and all we got is flu to show up for.
I was assured we will get the latest COVID boosters when they come in. Other people need them more. :)
Jackie
@mrmoshpotato:
Or, as TIFG for once correctly called the new Squeaker: MAGA Mike.
He needs to be addressed as that 100% of the time.
Frankensteinbeck
Update: Trump said afterwords that it was a “Perry Mason” moment. What a fucking dumbass living in a fantasy. He seriously thought he could save his financial empire by surprise winning one cross-examination point. From what I just read the judge said that his winning that point doesn’t help him much because the DA has so much not-Cohen evidence.
OGLiberal
@Suzanne: They are sometimes good things. In my town, about 20-years ago, soon after we bought our house, a developer wanted to build a 64-unit three story condo building that would have been in a U-shape around our house and the two houses next door. Would have resulted in no sunlight in my yard (not really a big deal for me, but still lost), along with dozens of balconies overlooking said yard. Was definitely out of code, hence, the variance request. We fought it until the housing market crashed and the developer backed out. The town’s rules (particular section is an official national historic district so rules much more stringent) forced the review/public involvement….without that the town government – all Democrats – would have approved the construction, no problem. (Republicans would have done the same…and faster) I support high density development but this developer had no solution for what was already a huge parking issue for current (hardly wealthy) residents. We have one car for a family of four – basically all adults (close if but age) family so not like we have an armada of vehicles but we still have issues parking today even though that monstrosity was never built. (this is not a place you can live without a vehicle – my 2-years in Manhattan without one were wonderful)
I agree that a lot of zoning/code rules are racist and stupid but, sometimes, they make sense.
Soprano2
@MazeDancer: I saw a stat about my city that is hard to believe, that only 40% of residents own their home. Even with 3 universities here that was shocking to me.
TS
@Geminid:
Too many governments sell off their investments for short term gain – it is good to hear that is happening
OGLiberal
@Ken: Many of the people bitching about high gas prices and saying it will affect their vote are those least likely to vote for a Democrat regardless so most of those folks can just save it.
That said, there is a not insignificant amount of non-partisan citizens who, if they do vote, may base their vote solely on, “this dude made my gas prices high”, so, yeah, not something to completely ignore but also not something no US president – even super-sized Trump – can change but super-sized Trump fans thinks he’s Jesus so, yeah, there’s that.
coin operated
@brendancalling:
QFT. Sorry…but classy went out at the same incremental rate as services during the flight. What we fly in now is literally pressurized flying cattle cars, so I’m not too judgy on the PJs and flipflops.
I fly…a lot…and even with PreCheck, gettting thru security can be a hassle. Polo shirt, shorts, flip-flops are my go-to flying attire.
Suzanne
@OGLiberal: Sure, every regulation makes individual sense. It’s when they all get aggregated that they become burdensome in terms of time and money.
The non-construction of 64 housing units is a really big problem. “Preserving character” and parking concerns and etc etc etc have essentially halted infill construction in much of the country. The result is going to be…. not what we say we want: more house-poor (really rent-poor) families, more sprawl and traffic, less opportunity for people who don’t come from generational wealth.
cain
@davecb: the hard right oligarchs are interested in buying everything that gives us information.
This is also why the argument for a decentralized social media makes a lot of sense. I’m glad that mastodon exists.
Scout211
What?! I posted this upthread at #17 and thought it was a clever joke! He really said that?
OGLiberal
@Suzanne:
So here’s where we disagree. If you are not going to change rules in the town to alleviate the parking issue, then why should I’d be on board with your massive (relatively speaking) increase in occupancy. I live in a high density area with lots of commerce nearby but not walking distance. I have no subway to take me to those places. I have one car. When that car has to be parked two to three blocks aways – in an extremely suburban location – that is an issue. My kids are older now but try that with toddlers – I had to do it and it sucked.
These people were not marketing or selling these units as places for “affordable” housing. They wanted people with money to live there. We don’t need that, and their cars. I looked at a map of NJ and we have plenty of greenspace left in the middle of nowhere – money people should just move there.
ETA: Many of the target market folks for this structure would have had a higher net worth than my family, maybe much higher.
Frankensteinbeck
@Scout211:
In those words.
What.
A.
Dumbass.
Nelle
@brendancalling: i was by the emergency exit on an emergency landing. Also once on a float plane that didn’t lift but hydroplaned into a bank and started to flip back in the water. I always wear shoes that increase my ability to run, if I have that chance. I worry less about survivability on flights from LAX to New Zealand…it’s all water for 12 or 13 hours, so if I go down, it’s hello fish.
UncleEbeneezer
@Leto: He’s also a Creationist (not sure if he’s “Young-Earth” or not).
Suzanne
@OGLiberal: IMO, if you want to be guaranteed to park nearby where you live, you are responsible for ensuring that. Garage or parking pad on your property, or push on the City for a permit system on the street. (FWIW, I live in a similar situation, and I also have a preschooler. And I frequently have to park on a different block.)
64 housing units, even for upper-middle-class people, helps increase overall supply, which is vital. We do not have enough of really any kind of housing. Saying that people should just go live out in undeveloped green space is…. how we get urban sprawl. Sprawl is a huge contributor to climate change. It also makes everything cost more, because we have to build more utilities and freeways and services, rather than using what we’ve already built more efficiently.
Many people under the age of 45-50 see that they cannot afford the same lifestyle or choices that their parents had, and that they never will. If you’re wondering why people are pessimistic despite Biden’s good performance, this is why.
boloboffin
Maybe Trump will recognize Johnson as the Pence 2.0 he is (minus all the electoral college scruples), and snatch him up for the 2024 election.
Trump/Johnson 2024 – Choke On It, Libs!
Matt McIrvin
@OGLiberal: Downtown to downtown, in the Northeast Corridor the train is faster.
If it’s not downtown to downtown, your best bet may be a bus. We often go from metro Boston to NYC on bus services that depart from nearby suburban hotels, with free parking in the hotel lot. It’s slow getting in and out of the city but it’s more comfortable than the plane.
Geminid
@TS: This is one more reason to keep Republicans out of power wherever possible.
During his term 2010-2014, Governor Bob McDonnell got Virginia into two bad privatization deals. One, a four lane highway parallel to Highway 460 from Petersburg to Suffolk, never got past the planning stage. A generous contract still allowed the private contractor to collect over $200 million from the state.
The other deal was for a private entity to build a second Hampton Roads bridge-tunnel. I believe that under its terms, the company will have a stake in the project even if the state decides to build ithe project itself.
Because of Virginia’s singular one term limit for governors, McDonnell never had to defend these sweetheart contracts in an election campaign. They would have hurt him badly I think, plus Virginia voters would have been better educated regarding privatization.
schrodingers_cat
@SiubhanDuinne: Check out my art haul in the next thread! BTW do you use watercolor pencils or other water based media in your books?
OGLiberal
@Suzanne: You know, come live here and deal with it. The lot in question was already home to an arts center those does incredible work but had severely inadequate parking. They owned the vacant (not vacant – old buildings, they wanted somebody else to pay for demolition) buildings/lots the developer wanted to build on. They (the arts center) bought the lot from the Board of Ed for a dollar but were looking for a million plus for the area of the lot they weren’t using. The “arts center”, at the time, was run by right wing-nuts…they weren’t actually “friends of the arts”. They wanted the extra money – government grants were already flowing in, as they should have – to develop the third floor as some sort of vanity project for one of the wing-nut board members. (there is a room in that third-floor – since developed without rich developer money – named after him)
I lived in Brooklyn, Manhattan, etc. Fuck, where I live now is very, very dense. I know about dense living conditions. But why the fuck would I be OK with some rich weekender with five cars staring into my backyard from a balcony, parking their 4 SUVs on my street.
None of this proposed development was intended to help anybody our party cares about. And, again, plenty of open land not that far away to alleviate the housing concerns of rich folks with four cars and a lot of money.
Suzanne
@OGLiberal:
Again, overall supply is the only thing that eases this. Those apartments might have been market rate, but increased overall supply helps reduce the market rate on an existing property (like cars…. when we don’t have as many new ones, the price of used ones goes up).
And again, using up “open” land (which probably has parkland or forest and wildlife on it) is the road to endless sprawling suburbanization and environmental catastrophe.
OGLiberal
@Suzanne: “or push on the City for a permit system on the street”. Yup, and the Christian group that runs the “town” (not really a “town” but a loud constituent within both parties, whose land falls within the “town”) would never, ever let that happen. Because their members/visitors don’t live here but don’t want to have parking restricted when they come for one-off events.
Why do I have to concede to these assholes when current code – almost certainly implemented by Dems – supports my argument? Seriously, come here and see what that building would have looked like and then say, “yeah, I’d live in the backyard of that”. I and my family shoudn’t have to suffer for rich developers and weekenders even if it represents greater housing density.
OGLiberal
@Suzanne: Listen, I struggled with this until I learned the motives, the developer, the plan, etc. The density approved by zoning was 24. I was for more than that with responsible solutions. But that’s not what was being proposed. It was selfish BS that was, in retrospect, likely going to result in a half built shell being next to my house for a decade. (because they didn’t want to sell to anybody other than rich folks) I’ve been here long enough to see that happen more than once. Right now we’ve got three houses on 30X60 lots and a parking lot (not even paved) to handle the arts center crowd so that residents – and we have a signficant number of multi-family units here – don’t have to part 2-3 blocks away. (parking still an issue, BTW) That’s what it was zoned for, that’s what it’s being used for. Why fuck over the not rich folks in the neighborhood for second home rich folks? Seriously, how is that better? Density for density’s sake, regardless of the consequences?
Ruckus
@mrmoshpotato:
Please don’t capitalize rethuglican.
It’s important to register them as what they are but not to over promote them. In my mind it should be all lower case or all upper case. Lower is acknowledging that they are exactly that and all upper reminds us of how shitty they are….. Just the first letter gives them position, prominence, normalcy.
rethuglican = prissy little bitches
RETHUGLICAN = complete and utter assholes.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@OGLiberal:
Thank you for pushing back on the mildly disguised neo-liberal, trickle-down yimby bullshit being pushed. It’s like being over at LGM and that fauxgressive crowd.
lowtechcyclist
@OzarkHillbilly:
I’ve got a coupla t-shirts that would be perfect for you.
The one I’m wearing right now says, “You’re just jealous ’cause the little voices are talking to me.”
The other one says, “I know the voices aren’t real, but they sure have some good ideas.”
Suzanne
@OGLiberal: You obviously don’t have to do anything. But we have an intractable problem, which is not enough housing units for the population. (Of any type, for poor people and rich people, single- and multi-family buildings, families and singles, etc.) And we have proof that sprawling greenfield development creates a huge carbon footprint while we are facing a climate crisis. I’m not in any position to weigh in on the merits or failures of any individual developer’s project. But I also don’t think that avoidance of change is a reasonable expectation for homeowners. Cities have to densify. It’s the pattern of millennia.
Ruckus
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
There is so much that SFB/TFG hasn’t realized – and likely never will, that it’s difficult to even start a list. He has been a useless, broken human being since he was in single digits, getting older, dumber, more vile, more useless, and obnoxious was and is his path in life. It seems someone in every generation has to take this path and in his it’s him.
Suzanne
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I mean, literally, our housing market broadly worked for people until 2008, when housing starts went off a cliff. Unless you have a better idea for how to literally house people.
OGLiberal
@Matt McIrvin: Seriously, unless the bus or train is not available and time is not of the essence, anything but a plane is better. Planes suck. It’s just a miserable experience. The seats are the width of a binder, the air quality is nasty, and the staff is miserable (although they do their best not to show it) because their entire work experience is miserable.
Citizen Alan
@SiubhanDuinne: Virginia foxx is on my champagne list. She’s one of those people who, upon hearing about her death, I plan to drink a bottle of champagne to celebrate. I’m up to about forty people right now.
Citizen Alan
@Suzanne:
Very true. I am not married and have no children, and I was going from unemployed to $120K a year, and moving to Fresno was still an incredible ordeal. And even with that income, I’m not sure I will ever be able to afford to buy a home here in Fresno.
OGLiberal
@Suzanne: Would be much more open to higher density if we could build parking lots in our town and assign resident parking permits. Historic District designation restricts the first (despite land available), Christiany group that owns the land restricts the latter. Since changing either is like changing water to wine I’m all for following existing zoning rules. You know how much space is between the tiny home I own and the tiny homes next door, on either side? About 5-6 feet. That’s true in almost every part of my approx. 1 sq. mile neighborhood/town…almost every lot is 30X60 with almost no space between and many of those units are multi-family. We have two event spaces in town, one owned by the Christians, one by a non-secular, non-profit. The Christians have no parking, the non-profit had almost no parking until half of the lot they wanted to sell to a rich developer became a parking lot – right next to and behind our house…which we preferred over AirBnBers staring into our yard. Our population density is about 9K/square mile and we are not a city and we don’t have subways or reasonable bus services (To NYC, yes…to anywhere else? Not at all.) So, add more?
Also, in the neighboring town, population density increases have led to the displacement of lower income folks, so…there’s that.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: Intra-city bus service seems to be improving steadily. It’s an efficient form of transportation, and our bus fleet is slowly shifting to carbon neutral power sources., so I think this is a very good development.
Intra-city passenger rail is also improving, in part because of investments authorized by the Infrastructure bill. I think these are complementary transportation modes.
Matt McIrvin
@OGLiberal: Northeast Corridor train service is also better than most other places in the US though this is not saying much. I just booked a round trip flight between Boston and Rochester to do a college visit with my daughter because we don’t have time for anything else and the train is about 12 hours. The flight is on a tiny regional jet, those can be a mixed bag but the seat space is not great.
WaterGirl
wrong thread.
Citizen Alan
@brendancalling: The first time I ever flew on a plane, I was 17 years old, and my mother insisted that I dressed as if I were going to church on a five hour flight from memphis to los angeles. And that was 15 years or so before 911. If the airline companies insist that their passengers should be treated like a livestock shoved into a cattle car for hours at a time, I will travel in as much comfort as I can get away with.
Citizen Alan
@OGLiberal:
I won’t fly anywhere that I could drive in less than ten hours.
OGLiberal
@Geminid: In NJ, while train and bus service to NYC and places like Newark and Jersey City, is slow and frustrating, it exists. But NJ is filled with corporate office parks and I can tell by traffic on the various highways in state that a lot of folks work there – and a lot of the traffic in the AM/PM is away from NYC, not towards. But train and bus service to those places is either horrible (have to transfer a thousand times – that’s bus, trains only go to NYC) or non-existent. So unless you have a reliable, daily car, you can’t work there. Seems intentional. And I am in a very blue state.
OGLiberal
@Citizen Alan: Amen.
ETA: Also, train. Many years ago I had a conference to go to outside of DC. There was a Nor’easter in the forecaster and felt my flight would have issues – plus, scary! Changed to train. I’m in NJ and it was a super pleasant experience.
Suzanne
@OGLiberal: The only way to lower prices is to get a lot of supply quickly.
From “The U.S. Needs More Housing Than Almost Anyone Can Imagine“.
I’m also on a narrow lot with minuscule setbacks.
Ruckus
@Soprano2:
Here in my part of CA the price of gas starts at $5 and goes up from there. There are stations within 1/2 mile of me that are over $6. Well over. I doubt seriously that they will ever go down. We have decent public transportation here in SoCal, including a reasonable all electric, commuter rail system and modern buses, including electric. And the population in LA county is larger than 40 states. So it isn’t going to get better. Now all we need is more parking at the train stations – and they are already 3 stories high.
Geminid
@Suzanne: I saw an old carpentry handbook that had a section on building “blind walls.” These were sided while on the building deck, before they were put up, because the house next door was so close.
Matt McIrvin
@Geminid: If the mythical North- South Station rail link were ever built, there could be direct train service to NYC from a station in walking distance of my house. But it probably never will exist. As it is I can ride Amtrak to Portland, Maine in a train that comes through once a day.
Geminid
@Ruckus: Better bus service to the train stations might also help.
OGLiberal
@Suzanne:@Suzanne: So, if I open an Arts Center next to your house with a theater and multiple classrooms, studios, etc, and then not include any parking for that, and if said Arts Center owns land they bought for a dollar from the township but instead of using it for much needed parking they decide they want to sell to a high dollar developer intent on building a shitload of units for high income folks with no parking, you’re down with that? The rules my township has in place – and those rules are far from dev friendly…in this town the Republicans don’t even run anybody for office – are too stringent and I was silly for asking the town to adhere to them?
Let’s be clear – that arts center, while doing good work, is not really helping the disadvantaged community members around here. (and there are many)
While I applaud the “revitalization” happening in the town next door, with their higher density, I’m still waiting to see it help the lower income folks who, literally, live on the other side of the tracks. I know this is an anecdotal case but, over the course of many years, the Kushners have kicked out a lot of folks in a town not far from us (not the same next door town) to build high density rich people housing and still waiting to see it turn the town around or help the non-rich residents.
OGLiberal
@Geminid: Yes! Although, for white folks, there seems to be a pecking order:
Bus – omg, never…the folks are dirty.
Train – almost as bad as the bus…but keeps out the local traffic.
Car – Fuck, yeah!
The number of single car riders I have seen over the years waiting to get into the Lincoln Tunnel while I fly buy in a bus in the bus lanes simply shocks me. These are not folks who can’t get to a train station or park and ride – they are wearing ties and driving fancy cars. And they are by themselves.
Ruckus
@Suzanne:
A lot of the housing now being built here in LA county is much denser than it used to be. We are seeing connected homes, 5 or 6 units in each building, 3 stories tall, the bottom/ground level has a garage in back. Across the street from my place they are building I believe at least 30 homes (possibly 36) on a lot that would hold around 10-12 conventional area homes at best. There is another location a mile from me that will have I believe at least 60 homes on land that would support maybe 25. It’s not the “we own land!” concept but the reality is that single family homes here in SoCal are getting too expensive for most people. My cousin sold his place in SoCal last year for 850 grand and moved out of state and bought a nicer, bigger lot/home for less than 650 grand.
Geminid
@Matt McIrvin: If you keep your eye on local Amtrak news, you might see some improvements coming your way. The Infrastructure bill was passed a little less than two years ago, and much of the new service Amtrak’s $60 billion share will fund is still in the planning phase.
I don’t know much about the desired North/South rail connecter. But that problem makes me think about how Boston grew up and prospered in the age of sailing ships, and is very awkwardy situated for every other mode of transportation developed since.
Boston has prospered in the last few decades in spite of this. I guess its large collection of higher education intstitutions has provided the human resources that medical and higher tech companies need in the newer economy.
lowtechcyclist
@Soprano2:
The universities may be the cause. You’ve got a lot more students than faculty and administration, and the students don’t own their own homes.
Suzanne
@Geminid: We build super-tight and one-sided walls all the time. Prefab exterior wall panels that are made in factories and can be essentially snapped together really quickly. All of the technology is there. The public will is not.
In our lifetimes, we’re never going to see large-scale public housing again in this country. Maybe that’s for the best, because it’s really difficult to maintain. The only plausible way to get more housing at below-market-rate is to have enough units in a city/town overall that landlords are willing to accept vouchers for Section 8 and other programs (I live next door to a single-family house that was divided into three units and is rented out to disabled adults).
Again, I’m not going to get into a debate about the merits of any specific project. But overall…. we just need more. Almost everywhere, and especially infill. From that piece I linked, 47% of renters are burdened, meaning they’re spending more than 30% of their income on rent.
I would also be more sympathetic to saying that it’s essential to enforce a zoning code, if zoning codes weren’t often written to discourage density and drive up costs. I’ve encountered so many stupid-ass zoning codes. Setbacks that make 1/3 or more of a lot unbuildable. Height restrictions so people in a two-story house can see the mountains twenty miles away from their kitchen. Overlays that require planting non-native species because “character”. Parking requirements so high that there’s enough parking for Black Friday shopping and therefore ten times as much as is needed any other day. Bans on planting shade trees because they trigger allergies.
OGLiberal
@Geminid: I look at the old right of ways in my area and really yearn for the time when you could take a train to so many more places than you can today. Seriously, outside of getting to your house (if you lived outside of “town”) they made it almost useless to own a car/carriage.
ETA: There are rail trails in the middle of nowhere where you can find old station houses that used to board commuter trains that could take you to NYC or Philadelphia, etc. Might take a while but, hey, you ain’t driving.
Suzanne
@OGLiberal:
Look, everything is a tradeoff. I don’t know the specifics of your town and how much housing is needed there and how much it was going to cost and whether there were tax breaks and how much parking is genuinely needed, etc etc etc. So I’m not going to make a judgment about any specific project. As I have said.
But I will object to:
1) The position that it’s preferable to just sprawl to undeveloped land
2) That a zoning code is necessarily a good and fair and wise regulation
3) That building more housing units isn’t a worthwhile goal if they are market-rate.
Geminid
@OGLiberal: One positive change in bus transportation is that bus companies are trying to make riding buses a better experience. They know the bad reputation buses have generally. The inter-city lines now boast of comfortable seats, compact work tables and Wi-Fi connections.
Local metropolitan bus service needs improvement in security and other aspects, but I think that’s a matter of attention and political will.
A friend who lives in Atlanta used to ride the MARTA buses all over, even took his bicycle along for some trips.. He liked it, but then he and his wife decided they could finally afford a small second car. He’s ridden the bus very little since.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
Typical yimby “reply guy”, or in this case “gal” nonsense. All talking points from the yimby 101 powerpoint presentation.
Reaganomics applied to housing. For those not familiar with the grift that is yimbyism:
https://truthout.org/articles/yimbys-the-alt-right-darlings-of-the-real-estate-industry/
https://www.housingisahumanright.org/what-is-a-yimby-hint-its-not-good/
Ruckus
@Geminid:
We have pretty good bus service where I live with one exception, it only runs twice per hour. I’ve used it before and it’s OK but you then have to time everything around the bus. Where I normally go on the other end of my train ride there is also good bus service that runs 3 times per hour and is often at least 3/4 full.
Captain C
This article was the main story at Yahoo! when I went there today to check my backup email. Headline:
New Speaker is an Election Denier, and It’s Raising Fears about 2024
I hope this is a sign that the MSM (other than the Murdoch vomitoria and the FTFNYT) are starting to get a clue and do some accurate coverage.
First ‘graph:
Ruckus
@OGLiberal:
Here in SoCal I most often any more take the train/bus for anything more than going to the grocery store. Mainly because my docs and dentist are on the other side of the county. And it’s a big county. The riders on the trains are a real cross section of the population in most every possible way. Age, race, gender. And in places the train is parallel to roads and freeways and often goes faster than the traffic.
Origuy
@Ruckus: I’m in San Jose and the price of gas has gone down below $4.80 in a few places near me. Granted, those are usually the lowest places in the county, but even they were above $5 a couple of weeks ago.
Geminid
@Ruckus: Do you notice any trend in ridership on the buses and/or trains you ride? Up? Down
Are you seeing any electric buses?
Paul in KY
@Suzanne: I think there’s enough housing for rich people.
Geminid
@Captain C: Another of many reasons that Democrats need to to retake the House next year.
Paul in KY
@Citizen Alan: Same here, though for me it is 16 hours.
Geminid
@Ruckus: I read that Philadelphia is adding to the miles of bus-only traffic lanes for routes extending from downtown. It’s still not a lot, but it’s a start.
Suzanne
@Paul in KY: Housing that was for rich people generally becomes housing for middle-class people over time. (The land is purchased, the expensive house is torn down, five townhouses are built on it. Or the big farm/orange grove is purchased, and a bunch of middle-class houses are built on it.) Which is why building something — anything — is better than building nothing.
OGLiberal
@Geminid: The coach companies that run commuter lines – and often honor train tickets when the trains mess us, which is frequent here in NJ since thanks to – but not exclusive to – Christie, we still have only two freaking tunnels into NYC – are actually pretty good. Comfy seats, quiet, good temp control, free wi-fi. Local/State transit running behind. NYC buses are fine because they are mostly coach but the NJ Transit buses are often not comfortable for long distances and those long distances often require a lot of transfers, making the trip a lot longer than it should be. (these are the buses “those people” use/need so not surprising) It’s been a while but NJ Transit trains still had no wi-fi when I last used, which is nuts given that the cheapest motels on the planet offer it. I used to prefer the train to bus but trains just much more susceptible to delays, which seems counterintuitive unless you look at how old our rail infrastructure is. The portal bridge in NJ – outside of the in-out tunnel limit – can cause massive delays because it’s a thousand years-old, always breaks down, and is shared with Amtrak and they always have priority over the commuter trains because, well, they own the rails. (why that bridge opens anywhere near peak transit times is beyond me – there is virtually no commerce coming through there these days, likely almost all “pleasure” boats) They are, finally, rebuilding the portal bridge but that will likely take years…and liekly more than projected given the inevitable construction delays.
Suzanne
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Why yes, let’s continue on with endless low-density suburban development. That’s not an environment destroyer at all.
Unsustainable Suburban Sprawl
The Impact of Suburban Construction on the Environment
OGLiberal
@Suzanne: I guess what I’m saying is rather than make my already overcrowded town more crowded and unbearable, maybe increase density a few miles away where the actual people with money have acres of property and houses they can never fill with people or contents but who, invariably, fight against having a shopping center, commuter lot or bus stop put anywhere near their house. We’re fine, we’re walkable, and we have more than enough people. Put more people where they ain’t and make those places more accessible. I live next to all kinds of people across many income ranges, religions, sexual preferences and races – my fellow white citizens in their little West Bank-like settlements not that far away maybe need to be open to doing the same and not always insist that only communities like mine should have to deal with overpopulation and parking BS. (which, of course, really means – we don’t want “those people”)
And, would like to see that increased density actually improve the town itself. My guess is that, too often, this “redevelopment” mostly ends up in a) part-time rich people who don’t shop local moving in and b) sweetheart deals for the developers, giving them tax breaks greater than any revenue the new population brings in to the town.
My town has a population density of 7.3K per square mile. Most large US cities can’t rival that. We’re hardly lacking for people. And that’s why the regulations we have in place aren’t all that nuts or restrictive.
Geminid
@OGLiberal: There’s a lot of money in the Infrastructure bill for capital improvements in mass transit besides the $60 billion for Amtrak. I think New York City’s MTA gets $10 billion. Some of the other money may make it your way.
The Infrastructure bill also has $10 billion for a Hudson River tunnel project. I think this will improve freight train operations in the Northeast.
My hope is that Democrates do well enough next year to pass an Infrastructure 2.0 bill, or at least a 1.5 version where Amtrak gets another $20 billion and other mass transit entities get equivalent bumps. These are good investments that pay for themselves, in freeing up people’s time if nothing else.
And then, after the Democratic landslide of 2028, Congress can pass the Mother of All Infrastructure Bills. That’s when all the high-speed rail enthusists will finally see some of their dreams start to come true; also, related climate legislation could put air travel firmly on the path to carbon-neutral flights.
Paul in KY
@Suzanne: IMO, that happens with farmland much more frequently. Think rich people have money to buy most existing homes, so there’s not a shortage (for them).
Craig
@OGLiberal: agree on flying sucks. I’m 6’4″ and basically have to pay for economy plus coast to coast, or be broken when I get there. My mum is 85 now and can’t stand the airport. When we go to my cousin’s in Arkansas for the holidays now I just fly Cali to VA, and we rent a small SUV and just drive. It’s a little more expensive, but the security is worth it. Last year we would have been stuck in the airport in Charlotte for two days because of a storm. Instead I just had to wake up at a hotel in Nashville clear 4 inches of snow off the rental and remember how to drive a 4×4 through snow for 9 hours. Way more enjoyable than 2 days in an airport, plus podcasts, truckstops, Arbysy, and long talks with my mum.
Central Planning
@Matt McIrvin: If you are going to Rochester to visit RIT, have one of the FPers send you my email. I graduated from there and two of my kids recently graduated from there.
OGLiberal
@Geminid: “The Infrastructure bill also has $10 billion for a Hudson River tunnel project. I think this will improve freight train operations in the Northeast.” As long as NJ doesn’t go through their regular cycle of electing a Republican as governor and that person rejects the funds like Christie did, awesome. Won’t hold my breath – we’ve been living with two tubes for 100 or so years…we can deal with it for 100 more. /s
Geminid
@OGLiberal: I think the freight tunnel is a go. It might benefit New Jerseyans by taking some trucks off the road, but not for some years. I guess it will create some years-long jobs, and generate a lot of other economic activity.
evodevo
@OGLiberal:
i was vice-chair of the Scott Co planning commission for 4 yrs…I would have advised the developer to at least offer free parking and other concessions to the adjoining owners lol – sounds like he/they were not wanting to negotiate. Wouldn’t want them as neighbors.