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You are here: Home / Politics / Trump Indictments / The Defendant

The Defendant

by WaterGirl|  November 10, 202311:10 am| 119 Comments

This post is in: Open Threads, Politics, Trump Indictments

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DC Indictment News

If you take out the legal citations, this is damn good writing.

GOVERNMENT’S OPPOSITION TO DEFENDANT’S MOTION TO STRIKE INFLAMMATORY ALLEGATIONS FROM THE INDICTMENT

On January 6, 2021, “[l]ives were lost; blood was shed; portions of the Capitol building were badly damaged; and the lives of members of the House and Senate, as well as aides, staffers, and others who were working in the building, were endangered.” Trump v. Thompson, 20 F.4th 10, 35-36 (D.C. Cir. 2021), cert. denied, 142 S. Ct. 1350 (2022). Yet publicly, the defendant has promoted and extolled the events of that day.

While the violent attack was ongoing, the defendant told rioters that they were “very special” and that “we love you.” In the years since, he has championed rioters as “great patriots” and proclaimed January 6 “a beautiful day.” In this case, though, the defendant seeks to distance himself, moving to strike allegations in the indictment related to “the actions at the Capitol on January 6, 2021.” ECF No. 115 at 1.

The Court should recognize the defendant’s motion for what it is: a meritless effort to evade the indictment’s clear allegations that the defendant is responsible for the events at the Capitol on January 6. I

Indeed, that day was the culmination of the defendant’s criminal conspiracies to overturn the legitimate results of the presidential election, when the defendant directed a large and angry crowd—one that he had summoned to Washington, D.C., and fueled with knowingly false claims of election fraud—to the Capitol to obstruct the congressional certification proceeding.

When his supporters did so, including through violence, the defendant did not try to stop them; instead, he encouraged them and attempted to leverage their actions by further obstructing the certification. Contrary to the defendant’s claims, then, the indictment’s allegations related to the actions at the Capitol are relevant and probative evidence of the defendant’s conduct and intent, and they are neither prejudicial nor inflammatory.

His motion to strike them from the indictment must be denied.

download .pdf file

I totally missed Ivanka’s testimony.  Is it fair to sum it up as Ms Trump struggles to ‘recall’?

Oh, wait, a quick recap from (fake) Jack Smith:

Summing up yesterday:

Good morning, Ivanka.

Ivanka: I do not recall.

It wasn’t a question.

Habba: I object!

On what grounds?

Habba: I need grounds?

You’re all caught up.

— Jack E. Smith ⚖️ (@7Veritas4) November 9, 2023

Open thread.

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Reader Interactions

119Comments

  1. 1.

    Scout211

    November 10, 2023 at 11:15 am

    Reposting this from downstairs, as this seems relevant here:

    I didn’t expect this ruling.

    A federal judge on Friday declined former President Donald Trump’s request to postpone the May start date of the trial in the special counsel’s classified documents case.

    Judge Aileen Cannon in a new court filing Friday did leave open the possibility of pushing back the trial date at a later date, saying she will consider the issue when the parties meet for a March 1 scheduling conference.

    The decision comes after Cannon heard arguments last week on Trump’s request to delay the trial.

    Of course, all high quality judges know that caveats are the way to go to disguise your real intentions, right? LOL. Reconsidering this in March does give her a lot of leeway here.

  2. 2.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    November 10, 2023 at 11:17 am

    Ms Trump struggles to ‘recall’?

    Well, be fair.  It was a long time ago and she’s so busy.

  3. 3.

    Scout211

    November 10, 2023 at 11:20 am

    And Liz Dye has another commentary up at Public Notice that is a good read, as always:

    Trump’s right, the system is RIGGED. In his favor.

    A couple of snippets:

    But in fact Trump’s entire defense strategy consists of yelling “Do you even know who I am?” over and over again, while demanding to be accorded special status as the former president and a candidate for office.

     

    In the documents case, Trump’s lawyers insisted that he be allowed to publish all the nuclear secrets he stole in violation of the Classified Information Procedures Act  because “there should simply be no ‘secret’ evidence, nor any facts concealed from public view relative to the prosecution of a leading Presidential candidate by his political opponent.” In the election case, Trump demanded that he be permitted to publicly target witnesses against him and publish discovery materials on Truth Social. He’s currently arguing that a former president is magically immune from criminal liability for conduct committed while in office.

    As evidence of this heretofore unheard of immunity, Trump points to the 44 presidents who came before him. Did George Washington wind up in jail after he left office? Case closed.

  4. 4.

    Chief Oshkosh

    November 10, 2023 at 11:20 am

    The recap from the fake Jack Smith is a little thin. There was also a portion where Ivanka testified that she had no idea that the Deutsche Bank loan terms were way more friendly to Trump than would have occurred in a regular real estate loan environment. Her answer was odd because up to that point she had followed her previous deposition very closely. However, though her answer to this question seems to clearly be a lie, and so opens her to a perjury charge, it sounds like nobody is interested right now.

  5. 5.

    Alison Rose

    November 10, 2023 at 11:21 am

    I like to imagine Ivanka sounded like Richard Kind performing Richard Sackler (the opioid asshole) on Last Week Tonight.

  6. 6.

    OzarkHillbilly

    November 10, 2023 at 11:22 am

    Breaking News: Ivanka Trump has Alzheimers!

  7. 7.

    smith

    November 10, 2023 at 11:24 am

    @Scout211: Reconsidering this in March does give her a lot of leeway here.

    Also reposting: This is a ploy to keep delaying the trial until after the election without making a firm decision so she can block Fani Willis from taking the May slot.

  8. 8.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    November 10, 2023 at 11:27 am

    Everytime I see her or any of the Orange Fart Cloud’s spawn, particularly in a legal proceeding, I harken back to a fine bit of Betty Cracker’s prose:

    Don’t know about y’all, but just as soon as it’s safe to participate in an angry mob, I intend to join one…I want them to have to flee the goddamned country, change their names and undergo reconstructive surgery.

  9. 9.

    Scout211

    November 10, 2023 at 11:27 am

    For all of us olds, “I don’t recall” is the new “To the best of my recollection.”

  10. 10.

    Anoniminous

    November 10, 2023 at 11:29 am

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:

    There’s well documented links between cocaine abuse and memory loss.

  11. 11.

    RaflW

    November 10, 2023 at 11:32 am

    Javanka are stone-faced lizard people. They never smile. They never frown. It’s like they’ve undergone full-face botox injections.

    IOW, they are 100% untrustable, weird, and I hope they just head off to bask on some rocky tax-haven island and leave us all TF alone!

  12. 12.

    smith

    November 10, 2023 at 11:34 am

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage:  Yes, well TFG and his cabal have a plan for you:

    Donald Trump and his allies have begun mapping out specific plans for using the federal government to punish critics and opponents should he win a second term, with the former president naming individuals he wants to investigate or prosecute and his associates drafting plans to potentially invoke the Insurrection Act on his first day in office to allow him to deploy the military against civil demonstrations.

  13. 13.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 11:40 am

    Someone I read yesterday – maybe Josh Marshall or someone he linked to in one of his writings – admitted to having  been previously frustrated that the DOJ focused on the smaller cases first, but was now considering that perhaps all of that served the dual purpose of being groundwork for this case – in some ways just the 1,001 case about Jan 6.

    I thought it was super interesting and wish I could go back to it!

  14. 14.

    smith

    November 10, 2023 at 11:41 am

    One thing I wanted to note about this latest Jack Smith filing: I think this is the first time he’s drawn a bright line from TFG’s plotting to the violence on Jan 6. Up to now, I wasn’t sure if he was going to leave an opening for TFG to claim that he wasn’t responsible for how other people reacted to the Big Lie, just like he’s claiming right now, in his motion to quash Chutkan’s gag order, that he’s not responsible for violent Goobers who act on his threats to witnesses, judges, and prosecutors.

  15. 15.

    RaflW

    November 10, 2023 at 11:43 am

    @smith: Peter Baker (yes, of the FTFNYT) had a very choice xeet today.

    @peterbakernyt
    A signal from Trump that did not get much attention: “If I happen to be president and I see somebody who’s doing well and beating me very badly, I say, ‘Go down and indict them.’ They’d be out of business. They’d be out of the election.”

    IOW, a guy with many, many pg.1 bylines in the ‘paper of record’ is noticing that Trump’s authoritarianism, which he’s been abundantly clear about for years now, has not gotten much attention.

    Huh.

    So f’ing disingenuous. Peter’s a g.d. poltroon. Even calling it a signal, rather than a flat-out admission of intent, is so emblematic of how the shit-ass NYT tiptoes around Donny the Hoover.

  16. 16.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 11:44 am

    @smith: I have read about that in a number of places, and I’m especially glad to see the Washington Post reporting on it.  Thanks for the link!

    Maybe it’s just me, but if I were evil and I were plotting this stuff, I would not be plotting it in plain sight and shouting it from the rooftops.

    I guess it’s all part of the “I could shoot someone on 5th avenue” mentality?

  17. 17.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    November 10, 2023 at 11:47 am

    @WaterGirl: I thought it was super interesting and wish I could go back to it!

    I recall something like that too. This [TPM] isn’t exactly it but it covers the same idea … Smith is citing Jan. 6 cases in his filing.

  18. 18.

    Josie

    November 10, 2023 at 11:50 am

    @WaterGirl: Right? Hopefully, someone is keeping a folder of all these statements and threats so they can make a truly frightening political ad at the proper time.​
     ETA: They could tie it to the stupidity of voting for any third party candidate.

  19. 19.

    Scout211

    November 10, 2023 at 11:50 am

    @WaterGirl:  Agree.  Plus, all of those convictions serve other purposes, too.  Like for one, those were the most violent MAGA Trump supporters and organizations.  If they weren’t charged, prosecuted and convicted already, they would be out in public doing the most damage to our institutions and violently causing death and destruction.  And would likely foment another insurrection to defend their hero right now.

    ETA: edited for clarity.

  20. 20.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 11:51 am

    @RaflW: That’s why Trump thinks Biden is pulling the strings giving orders to the DOJ – because Trump would do exactly what he is accusing Biden of.

  21. 21.

    sdhays

    November 10, 2023 at 11:54 am

    The write up of Ivanka’s testimony on Daily Kos suggested that her testimony mostly provided a vehicle for introducing pretty damaging documents showing that they couldn’t get a loan until they utterly lied about Trump’s finances to a friendly (i.e. corrupt as f****) rep at Deutsche Bank. That loan was at 2% interest because Trump was claiming he didn’t actually need it and could cover the loan out of his personal wealth.

  22. 22.

    Alison Rose

    November 10, 2023 at 11:54 am

    @WaterGirl: Yeah, it has real “cheating on your spouse and then accusing them of infidelity” vibes.

  23. 23.

    Brit in Chicago

    November 10, 2023 at 11:56 am

    @Chief Oshkosh: Yes, and I also heard that having her as a witness allowed various documents to be introduced as evidence. She had no recollection of them (even though her name was on them) but they can now become part of the court’s record. (I get the idea that Ms. James knows what she’s doing; I’ve formed the same impression of Mr. Smith and Ms. Willis. TiFG’s lawyers, not so much—but perhaps they have a heavier burden to lift.)

  24. 24.

    John S.

    November 10, 2023 at 11:57 am

    @WaterGirl:

    Every accusation is an admission.

  25. 25.

    Scout211

    November 10, 2023 at 11:57 am

    @Brit in Chicago: She had no recollection of them (even though her name was on them) but they can now become part of the court’s record.

    Plus, didn’t they have an email from her that actually negotiated that lower interest rate? Am I remember that correctly?

  26. 26.

    Ken

    November 10, 2023 at 12:00 pm

    I did see this analysis from Elizabeth Lopatto of The Verge:

    If you’re up on the stand, not only saying I didn’t do it; and if I did it it was fine; and I didn’t mean it; and also I don’t recall anything I said in the last year and a half; and I’m going to try to weasel my way out of all of these questions; and I’m going to answer the questions that I feel like answering and not the questions I’m being asked — this sort of thing, it doesn’t win over a judge.

    She was talking about Sam Bankman-Fried’s testimony, but I imagine she could re-use it for “The Defendant” with only minimal changes.

  27. 27.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    November 10, 2023 at 12:01 pm

    @smith:

    Also reposting: This is a ploy to keep delaying the trial until after the election without making a firm decision so she can block Fani Willis from taking the May slot.

    Is there anything that can be done to stop her from blocking Fani?

  28. 28.

    Burnspbesq

    November 10, 2023 at 12:02 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh:

    A perjury charge is highly unlikely in a bench trial. The path of least resistance for the judge is simply to give the false testimony the evidentiary weight it deserves, i.e., none.

    Lying to a jury is a whole other ballgame.

  29. 29.

    smith

    November 10, 2023 at 12:09 pm

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: If Willis were taking advice from me, I’d say she should use Cannon’s latest confirmation of a May trial date to simply schedule hers in August. There seems to be some consensus that 2-3 months between trials is adequate, so I’d hope Willis would just act on that. However, she hasn’t called me yet, alas

    ETA: And for other reasons, I think August would be ideal. TFG will almost certainly then be the official nominee, but his required presence in court will make campaigning difficult. The GA trial will be televised, and with the campaign in the final stretch, people will be very interested, and will tune in. It would be hard to think of a worse scenario for TFG.

  30. 30.

    cain

    November 10, 2023 at 12:13 pm

    @sdhays: JFC – so, at Trump’s level people just take his word for it? If I apply for a loan they look at a bunch of stuff including payment history and what not to be considered for anything. Just stunning.

  31. 31.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 12:16 pm

    @Ken: Yes, it fits perfectly.

    It shocked me in my twenties, when I volunteered as an advocate with the local rape crisis group and often went to court with women when their cases were prosecuted, to find the “I didn’t do it” and the “If I did do it, it was consensual” defense being given at the same time!

    As in, I rape her, I didn’t even have sex with her, but if I did have sex with her, it was consensual.

  32. 32.

    StringOnAStick

    November 10, 2023 at 12:16 pm

    @Josie: And I hope those truly frightening political ads make a really strong point about how unAmerican this is.

  33. 33.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2023 at 12:17 pm

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    Federal Judge Cannon cannot block the Georgia State prosecution unless she actually starts the Federal trial in the documents case before D.A. Willis starts the State prosecution.

    It is comity! And comedy on Cannon’s part.

  34. 34.

    Villago Delenda Est

    November 10, 2023 at 12:18 pm

    As evidence of this heretofore unheard of immunity, Trump points to the 44 presidents who came before him. Did George Washington wind up in jail after he left office? Case closed.

    Well, George Washington didn’t steal classified documents from the government, so there is that.

  35. 35.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 12:18 pm

    @Burnspbesq: That’s really interesting.  I had no idea!

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 12:20 pm

    @Immanentize: Who knew you attorneys could be so useful?! :-)

    Besides, being great commenters, of course.

  37. 37.

    smith

    November 10, 2023 at 12:20 pm

    @WaterGirl: Even though WaPo gave prominent coverage to TFG’s plan to basically declare himself dictator on day one, where are the pundits? Why isn’t this getting as much hand-wringing as Biden’s age, for god’s sake? Is it just that this is what we’ve come to expect from the GQP, it’s basically ho-hum, old news?

  38. 38.

    Jinchi

    November 10, 2023 at 12:22 pm

    I thought Ivanka’s schtick was to use ASMR, speaking not quite loud enough for anyone to hear what the heck she’s saying.

    Could be a pretty good trick to get out of perjury.

  39. 39.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: Haha, I had to look that up to recall what made me so angry — and I got mad all over again! The sheer effrontery, the unmitigated gall of those motherfuckers!

  40. 40.

    cain

    November 10, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    @smith: ETA: And for other reasons, I think August would be ideal. TFG will almost certainly then be the official nominee, but his required presence in court will make campaigning difficult. The GA trial will be televised, and with the campaign in the final stretch, people will be very interested, and will tune in. It would be hard to think of a worse scenario for TFG.

    The gnashing of teeth of the RNC and everyone else will be melodious. My only guess is that if he’s the nominee, he’ll go to the SCOTUS to claim that all these litigation is political and that they have to be dropped. The SCOTUS at this point should not give candidates new freedoms – otherwise every mobster and crook will be running for president hoping to get the nomination to avoid jail time. Then again, I suppose that is all the GOP has anyways.

    how it started: Nixon: “I”m not a crook.”

    how it’s going: GOP: “We are!”

  41. 41.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2023 at 12:25 pm

    @Burnspbesq:

    This is generally true. Which is why Trump will never testify in his federal criminal trials. Even if he is not later tried for perjury, if found guilty, Trump will suffer greatly under the sentencing guidelines both for deceptive testimony AND failure to accept responsibility.

    To add: perjury can be really easy to prove if one has made prior false statements under oath. The prosecutor need not prove that one or the other, pr even either, of the statements are “true.” Just that they are different about a material issue in the case.

  42. 42.

    cain

    November 10, 2023 at 12:26 pm

    @Immanentize:

    She could start it and stop that prosecution and then indefinitely delay the documents case, right?

  43. 43.

    Another Scott

    November 10, 2023 at 12:30 pm

    @smith: They’ve been doing this stuff, and stuff like it, for years.  It’s good to see it getting attention, of course, but it’s not new.

    E.g. them wanting to throw out civil service employment rules (and make everyone a political appointee) in their Schedule F rules.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  44. 44.

    Just Some Fuckhead

    November 10, 2023 at 12:30 pm

    @WaterGirl: I had that thought about the excuse they gave for not filing document charges in DC. They said the defense would argue for a venue change because the crimes charged in the indictment happened in Florida, so the defense would essentially say, “no crimes were committed but the crimes happened in Florida.”

  45. 45.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2023 at 12:31 pm

    @smith: Margaret Sullivan wrote a great piece addressing that issue at The Guardian. Link + excerpt:

    The public doesn’t understand the risks of a Trump victory. That’s the media’s fault

    The press must get across to American citizens the crucial importance of this election and the dangers of a Trump win. They don’t need to surrender their journalistic independence to do so or be “in the tank” for Biden or anyone else.

    It’s now clearer than ever that Trump, if elected, will use the federal government to go after his political rivals and critics, even deploying the military toward that end. His allies are hatching plans to invoke the Insurrection Act on day one.

    The US then “would resemble a banana republic”, a University of Virginia law professor told the Washington Post when it revealed these schemes. Almost as troubling, two New York Times stories outlined Trump’s autocratic plans to put loyal lawyers in key posts and limit the independence of federal agencies.

    The press generally is not doing an adequate job of communicating those realities.

    Instead, journalists have emphasized Joe Biden’s age and Trump’s “freewheeling” style. They blame the public’s attitudes on “polarization”, as if they themselves have no role. And, of course, they make the election about the horse race – rather than what would happen a few lengths after the finish line…

    We need a lot more stories like the ones the Post and the Times did – not just in these elite, paywalled outlets but on the nightly news, on cable TV, in local newspapers and on radio broadcasts. We need a lot less pussyfooting in the wording.

    Every news organization should be reporting on this with far more vigor – and repetition – than they do about Biden being 80 years old.

    Amen to every word.

  46. 46.

    cain

    November 10, 2023 at 12:34 pm

    @smith:

    @WaterGirl: Even though WaPo gave prominent coverage to TFG’s plan to basically declare himself dictator on day one, where are the pundits? Why isn’t this getting as much hand-wringing as Biden’s age, for god’s sake? Is it just that this is what we’ve come to expect from the GQP, it’s basically ho-hum, old news?

    The pundits are more interested in stopping Kamala Harris. The whole “Joe is old” is more about her I suspect than it is about Joe – after all Trump is getting a pass, and even speculation of Manchin running as 3rd party is getting a pass. The only difference is that there is a fairly young bi-racial candidate who doesn’t have any white blood in her at all.  (Obama was half white)

    So I’m thinking that dictatorship is preferable to these assholes.

  47. 47.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 12:42 pm

    @Betty Cracker: I wondered, too!  Can you remind us?

  48. 48.

    smith

    November 10, 2023 at 12:43 pm

    @Betty Cracker: It is really frustrating that we have no effective way to hold the media responsible for journalistic malpractice. I know there are people who think the vigorous pushback FTFNYT and WaPo get in their comments sections accomplishes this, but it doesn’t seem to affect their coverage one iota. The intense engagement at that level just gives corporate media a captive target audience for their influence operations.

    One would hope that online sources could work around this, but those provide at best a cacophony of wildly differing “facts” and at worst systematic disinformation. We’ve lost the mechanisms we once had — or thought we had — for identifying reliable sources.

  49. 49.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 12:46 pm

    @Another Scott: Not sure what was in that particular article, as I haven’t read that one yet, but there’s a whole lot that’s new in the articles I have seen.

    I thought I had a tab open so I could share a link, but I did not. :-(

  50. 50.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 12:47 pm

    @Just Some Fuckhead: These guys don’t even care if their arguments are absurd.  They are pathetic excuses for human beings.

  51. 51.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 12:49 pm

    @smith: Thank god for places like ProPublica, who are actually committing journalism.  Investigative journalism seems like it would be much more fun than being a stenographer.

  52. 52.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2023 at 12:51 pm

    @WaterGirl: It was when Kushner went on Fox News a couple of months into the pandemic and insisted the Trump admin’s response had been a huge success. (Link) Re-reading it reminded me of how scary and weird those times were. I suspect most of us are still dealing with pandemic-related PTSD.

  53. 53.

    Old School

    November 10, 2023 at 12:52 pm

    Deleted.

  54. 54.

    Tony Jay

    November 10, 2023 at 12:57 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    And I’m sure the FTF Guardian’s hacks nodded sagely at Sullivan’s common sense account of basic journalistic malpractice while not for one single solitary second acknowledging that the exact same charge can be thrown at them for their appalling behaviour between 2016 and 2019.

    Wankers. The lot of them.

  55. 55.

    Immanentize

    November 10, 2023 at 12:57 pm

    @cain: No, because ot is a jury trial. No judge, not even a Trump tankie, would do anything so obvious.

    Then again….

  56. 56.

    MomSense

    November 10, 2023 at 1:07 pm

    @Immanentize: Heh!

  57. 57.

    Betty

    November 10, 2023 at 1:12 pm

    Regarding Ivanka’s appearance, it should be noted that the NYT article gave a detailed description of her fashion as well as her lovely flowing blonde hair. All so very relevant.

  58. 58.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 1:14 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Oh my god, yes, especially if it was after he had commandeered protective gear for blue states and gave it to ???

  59. 59.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 1:16 pm

    @Betty: ooh, ooh, what color were her toenails painted?  //

  60. 60.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2023 at 1:17 pm

    @Tony Jay: I’ve been saying for ages (about the abysmal political coverage in the U.S.) that the major dailies and networks might get better coverage if they staffed their DC desks with foreign correspondents who are rotated to a new capital every few years. Reporting from foreign capitals tends to be less horse-racy, less access-based and more focused on outcomes, which is what we need in coverage of our own national politics. Of course, that remedy presupposes that the MSM wants to provide better coverage, and there’s no evidence of that.

  61. 61.

    cain

    November 10, 2023 at 1:22 pm

    @smith: We do – it’s called stop watching cable news. Put your money towards media outlets that are doing the right thing.

    That includes so called liberal oriented news orgs like MSNBC.

  62. 62.

    FelonyGovt

    November 10, 2023 at 1:24 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh: A friend of mine has some inside information which proves that the adult spawn are lying when they say they had no involvement in the valuations and other financial matters. I imagine Jack Smith’s office has this information…

  63. 63.

    stinger

    November 10, 2023 at 1:24 pm

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: it was a school day!

  64. 64.

    Another Scott

    November 10, 2023 at 1:25 pm

    @WaterGirl: That link of mine is to a bunch of stories on Schedule F at GovExec.com

    I’m just saying that even if the story is “new”, we’ve known he and his minions have been scheming about stuff like this for ages.  He wants to be dictator, he wants to be able to fire anyone in the federal government who doesn’t do what he wants, he wants to send the DoJ after anyone he doesn’t like, he wants to send ICE to deport anyone he doesn’t like, he wants the Secret Service and NATO countries and anyone else that he interacts with to pay him – personally, and on and on.

    We’ve known all this for a very long time. Additional details doesn’t change any of that.

    E.g. Politico (from July 2017):

    Even before the 2016 campaign was over, Trump began talking about how, as president, he would strike back at members of his party who wronged him, according to a senior campaign aide. Administration officials have been struck by his ability to recall what Republicans said about him before his victory, especially those who criticized him following the release of the “Access Hollywood” tape — a decisive moment that crystallized for the then-GOP nominee who his true friends were. Even today, chief of staff Reince Priebus, according to one administration official, is routinely reminded that he told Trump to quit the race.

    Two White House aides say the president now relishes that some of those who crossed him, like Roby, are scrambling to get in his good graces.

    We know that he continues to push boundaries and break norms until people stop him. It’s the story of his whole life.

    Yes, it’s good that these stories are in the news. Maybe normies will pay more attention. ;-)

    My $0.02.

    Thanks.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  65. 65.

    Tony Jay

    November 10, 2023 at 1:25 pm

    @Betty Cracker:

    Narrator’s Voice: “No, they did not.”

    Globally, what has happened to ‘prestige’ News Media outlets is exactly what happened to Jezebel or, if you prefer, what revolutionary coups do in the process of seizing power. The fuckers stormed in with cheque books or guns and turned it all into click-bait propaganda for selling rubbish.

    And I’m not sure re what we do about that.

  66. 66.

    cain

    November 10, 2023 at 1:25 pm

    @Betty Cracker:  They don’t because they are hooked on horse race cocaine which drives clicks. It’s like their version of reality tv – it doesn’t cost as much and gives a lot of payback. It makes the assumption that Democrats and others will keep the Democracy safe while they can do this shit without consequences. Hell, I think that’s true for the entire U.S. public.

  67. 67.

    FelonyGovt

    November 10, 2023 at 1:30 pm

    @Burnspbesq: Absolutely. I’m an arbitrator, not a judge, but it’s pretty easy to tell when a witness is lying. And then in making your decision you give their testimony the appropriate weight- none.

  68. 68.

    Jeffro

    November 10, 2023 at 1:31 pm

    @Scout211: it’s going to be exciting when, come next May, roughly half of the GOP will be screaming at convicted felon trumpov to drop out of the race for the good of the party and he laughs in their faces.

  69. 69.

    Mr. Bemused Senior

    November 10, 2023 at 1:35 pm

    @Jeffro: … roughly half of the GOP will be screaming at convicted felon trumpov to drop out …

    Half? That is an over estimate.

  70. 70.

    wjca

    November 10, 2023 at 1:35 pm

    @Chief Oshkosh: her answer to this question seems to clearly be a lie, and so opens her to a perjury charge, it sounds like nobody is interested right now.

    The operative phrase being “right now.”  No need for a distraction; no reason not to wait until the trial concludes. (Unless the Statute of Limitations is substantially shorter for perjury than for other crimes.)

  71. 71.

    JPL

    November 10, 2023 at 1:36 pm

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: I don’t see that happening unless there are pics of trump with a young boy.

    They accept trump warts and all.

  72. 72.

    Misterpuff

    November 10, 2023 at 1:37 pm

    @sdhays:

    The write up of Ivanka’s testimony on Daily Kos suggested that her testimony mostly provided a vehicle for introducing pretty damaging documents showing that they couldn’t get a loan until they utterly lied about Trump’s finances to a friendly (i.e. corrupt as f****) rep at Deutsche Bank. That loan was at 2% interest because Trump was claiming he didn’t actually need it and could cover the loan out of his personal wealth.

     

    The loan was at 2% (vs 9%) because Jervanka got the loan on the Rich People Concierge side of the bank, not the Corp Real Estate lending side of the bank (they wanted more documentaion and to charge 9%). The Concierge took the BS smoke and mirrors financial statements and booked it at the (much) lower “Oh You Are A Rich Customer Mr Clampett” 2% rate, which as you said they lied about.

  73. 73.

    Jackie

    November 10, 2023 at 1:37 pm

    @Betty: Someone – maybe on Nicole Wallace’s show mentioned the court sketch artist spent a lot of effort on detail and accentuating her flatteringly.🤮

  74. 74.

    wjca

    November 10, 2023 at 1:41 pm

    @Immanentize: Federal Judge Cannon cannot block the Georgia State prosecution unless she actually starts the Federal trial in the documents case before D.A. Willis starts the State prosecution.

    It is comity! And comedy on Cannon’s part.

    Well, any competent judge would know that.  But this is Cannon, after all.

  75. 75.

    Misterpuff

    November 10, 2023 at 1:41 pm

    @Villago Delenda Est:

    Well, George Washington didn’t steal classified documents from the government, so there is that.

    No, Benedict Arnold did that and had to abscond to England. Much like the Orange Fart Cloud will need to abscond to Rooosia.

  76. 76.

    Jeffro

    November 10, 2023 at 1:45 pm

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: let’s see how it shakes out six months from now.  He’s at 56% with GOP primary voters right now.

    If anything, I’m probably slightly underestimating.

  77. 77.

    wjca

    November 10, 2023 at 1:47 pm

    @cain: there is a fairly young bi-racial candidate who doesn’t have any white blood in her at all.  (Obama was half white)

    Not to go all technical or anything.  But I seem to recall from a very long ago Anthropology class that “Caucasian” included people all the way from Northern Europe to, and including, India.  Not that the people who get het up about race care about details like that.  But just sayin’.

  78. 78.

    wjca

    November 10, 2023 at 1:55 pm

    @Misterpuff: Benedict Arnold did that and had to abscond to England. Much like the Orange Fart Cloud will need to abscond to Rooosia. 

    It occurs to me to wonder.  Suppose TIFG does (God forbid!) get elected.  And decamps to Russia to avoid already decided jail time.  Does CJ Roberts travel to Moscow to swear him in? Does he try to serve as President from outside the country?

    All kinds of amusing scenarios.  Which we hope will never become possible.

  79. 79.

    JPL

    November 10, 2023 at 2:16 pm

    @wjca: trump can step aside for a medical procedure, and VP could pardon him.  If the VP decides not to, he’s dismissed when trump regains power.

    anyway something like that

  80. 80.

    wjca

    November 10, 2023 at 2:19 pm

    @JPL:

    Doesn’t work for state (e.g. Georgia) sentences, however.

  81. 81.

    Mallard Filmore

    November 10, 2023 at 2:22 pm

    Scout211 @ #!:   Maybe she was waiting to see which way the elections went before making the call.

  82. 82.

    Betty

    November 10, 2023 at 2:25 pm

    @WaterGirl: Not sure, but her earrings were pearl studs, and she was carrying a black clutch. Didn’t see anything about the shoes though.

  83. 83.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    November 10, 2023 at 2:35 pm

    @Betty:  In principle, I try to avoid commenting on a woman’s appearance, but Ivanka invites it because she obviously cares. It’s sort of like DeSantis invites comments about his height by his reaction, whereas no one comments on Zelensky’s height because it’s obvious his height is the furthest thing from his mind.

  84. 84.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2023 at 2:39 pm

    @wjca: True. I also don’t think anyone who would refuse to vote for Harris because she’s not white would give Obama any credit for being half white. The racists I know don’t think that way. You’re either white or you’re not, according to them.

  85. 85.

    DMcK

    November 10, 2023 at 2:42 pm

    @cain: ​
      They do if they’re looking for a conduit to launder Russian money.

  86. 86.

    Matt McIrvin

    November 10, 2023 at 2:49 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    Maybe it’s just me, but if I were evil and I were plotting this stuff, I would not be plotting it in plain sight and shouting it from the rooftops.

    Unless, in fact, the American people want this. And maybe they do. Maybe they’re ready for it.

  87. 87.

    catclub

    November 10, 2023 at 3:03 pm

    @Misterpuff: Rich People Concierge side of the bank,

     

    A guy in NYC wants to go to England for three months and needs to park his Rolls  for three months.  Instead, He asks the bank for $10k loan

    at 5% interest… but he gives them the Rolls as collateral.  He just spent $150  to park his car in NY.

  88. 88.

    jimmiraybob

    November 10, 2023 at 3:04 pm

    @Mr. Bemused Senior: ​
     

    “Well, be fair. It was a long time ago and she’s so busy.”

    Not to mention having the undue torment and stress of having to arrange child care for her trip to the courtroom. Tyranny! Biden is a monster! ‘Her’ emails!

  89. 89.

    cmorenc

    November 10, 2023 at 3:06 pm

    @Mallard Filmore:

    That is my take as well on Cannon’s intent – she wants the start of the documents trial delayed until post-election so she can hedge on the extent she plays it as a hack (if trump wins) vs playing it straight-up to repair her judicial rep (if trump loses in 2024).  She hopes to have it both ways by letting the election determine how she goes – in the meantime she will do just enough further hackery to slow the trial until post-nov24 and not bust the bubble on team trump’s impression she leans their way.  But that won’t include dismissal or actual fatal handicaps to the fed case, just petty harassment

  90. 90.

    catclub

    November 10, 2023 at 3:06 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Unless, in fact, the American people want this.

     

    I was thinking the terrifying ads of all the fascist stuff Trump says he wants to do on day 1 of his Presidency would appeal to many of his voters. The book  “The Authoritarians” has just this theme.

  91. 91.

    sab

    November 10, 2023 at 3:07 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Most MSM people are courtiers not journalists. Their own access to the rich and powerful is the whole point of their careers. They don’t do their jobs the way they do because they have to to survive in their jobs. They do it because the whole point of having their job is to hobnob with the rich and powerful. They want to be in an exclusive club.

  92. 92.

    JPL

    November 10, 2023 at 3:09 pm

    @wjca: If that comes to trial before the election.   A local poll shows that most Georgians think he is accused because of political reasons.   Fani is going to have to spend sometime convincing the jury otherwise

    About 60 percent thought politics played a roll..   There is also some negatives for trump

    About 69% of respondents said the charges against Trump are very serious or somewhat serious. About 68% said Trump was wrong to ask Georgia officials to change the outcome of the 2020 election.

  93. 93.

    JaySinWA

    November 10, 2023 at 3:11 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Polls show that a significant portion of the US does lean authoritarian. https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2023/11/10/lot-americans-embrace-trumps-authoritarianism/

  94. 94.

    Another Scott

    November 10, 2023 at 3:12 pm

    @catclub: Heh.

    But I don’t think that it would work like that.  The bank would want the title, not the physical car (they know that taking physical possession is expensive).  And there would probably be a penalty for paying off the loan early.

    Could be wrong though!

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  95. 95.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 3:13 pm

    @Betty: Oh god, that’s awful.  She’s scum of the earth, do reporters actually think any of us care what she’s wearing?

  96. 96.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 3:14 pm

    @Matt McIrvin: Nope, I’m not buying that.

    I think the people who fall for that stuff probably aren’t big thinkers in the first place.

  97. 97.

    Redshift

    November 10, 2023 at 3:19 pm

    @Another Scott:

    I’m just saying that even if the story is “new”, we’ve known he and his minions have been scheming about stuff like this for ages.

    From Day 1, “drain the swamp” really obviously meant “get rid of anyone who tells me I can’t do whatever I want,” but we had to endure months of chin-scratching of the form “hmm, drain the swamp means fighting corruption, but he sure doesn’t seem to be doing that.”

  98. 98.

    Betty Cracker

    November 10, 2023 at 3:23 pm

    NBC News has a new FAFO report on the New Jersey insurrectionist Gregory Yetman, who went on the lam rather than face charges. He turned himself in to the cops this morning, “dirty and unkempt,” and is now in jail.

    USA Today did a report earlier this year about hundreds of wanted members of the mob who had been identified but not arrested. Yetman was one of the un-arrested rioters the USA Today reporters took a closer look at because his actions on January 6 were violent, so they were wondering why the FBI hadn’t rolled him up yet. The report noted that the courts that handle these cases are under strain due to the volume, so the pace of arrests had slowed but the perps could be apprehended any time.

    Yetman is an arrogant prick who seemed to think he was getting away with it last March:

    Yetman told USA TODAY the FBI interviewed him in January 2021. He said he has never heard from the bureau since.

    “Everything’s been resolved, everything’s good,” he said.

    But then the consequences of his actions finally caught up. Good. I hope the rest of those thugs are scared shitless.

  99. 99.

    Pennsylvanian

    November 10, 2023 at 3:24 pm

    I just read a link to Business Insider summarizing the newest excuse for GOP losses:  Taylor Swift!

    Good luck with that assholes. The Swiftie army has NO fucks to give for you.

    Are these people ever going to be sentient enough to look in the mirror and ask, what could it possibly be that isn’t winning people over?  FFS.

  100. 100.

    Ruckus

    November 10, 2023 at 3:27 pm

    @WaterGirl:

    You are normal and therefore far, far smarter than the average trash can – SFB isn’t now and I’d bet he really never was. How this jackass ever got enough people to vote for him really, really doesn’t say a lot for our school systems and their need to grade people higher than a doorstop so that the elementary school system does not explode from overcrowding.

  101. 101.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    November 10, 2023 at 3:28 pm

    @catclub:

    I was thinking the terrifying ads of all the fascist stuff Trump says he wants to do on day 1 of his Presidency would appeal to many of his voters. The book  “The Authoritarians” has just this theme.

    We won’t get those people anyway. We need to be honest about the stakes.

  102. 102.

    Jackie

    November 10, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    GRRRRRR!

    “Several Republican lawmakers plan to fight the recently approved abortion rights amendment by trying to overthrow the judicial branch’s authority to interpret it,” the Columbus Dispatch reports.

    “Ohio voters approved protections for abortion and other reproductive rights, 57-43%, Tuesday. Abortion rights advocates will soon head to court to repeal restrictions and bans on the procedure.”
    But four GOP lawmakers had another idea.
    “To prevent mischief by pro-abortion courts with Issue 1, Ohio legislators will consider removing jurisdiction from the judiciary over this ambiguous ballot initiative,” according to a Thursday night news release with quotes from four GOP House representatives. “The Ohio legislature alone will consider what, if any, modifications to make to existing laws based on public hearings and input from legal experts on both sides.”
    The news release from Reps. Jennifer Gross, R-West Chester; Bill Dean, R-Xenia; Melanie Miller, R-Miller; and Beth Lear, R-Galena and was titled: “DECEPTIVE OHIO ISSUE 1 MISLED THE PUBLIC BUT DOESN’T REPEAL OUR LAWS.” Ohio Value Voters, an anti-abortion organization, shared the same quotes in a Friday news release.

    “We will withdraw jurisdiction from the courts so that they cannot misapply Issue 1 for the benefit of the abortion industry,” Gross said in the Ohio Value Voters’ release.

  103. 103.

    JPL

    November 10, 2023 at 3:29 pm

    @Betty Cracker: Are the Federal Courts considered to be essential,  if there is a government shutdown?

  104. 104.

    RaflW

    November 10, 2023 at 3:35 pm

    @cain: “the assumption that Democrats and others will keep the Democracy safe while they can do this shit without consequences”

    Reporters, editors, publishers etc seem to have no idea (or at least act like they have none) that Trump will get them fired, or shuttered, or jailed as well if he regains power. He’ll absolutely go after them. eg, he turned on Mags Haberman recently, and won’t ever forget that she ‘crossed’ him.

    He has no ethical guard rails. None. He’d be much more reckless and brazen than even a Viktor Orban, who at least has to behave in ways that won’t get Hungary kicked out of the EU (itself all too toothless a body, but they could be provoked, I think.)

  105. 105.

    Gravenstone

    November 10, 2023 at 3:44 pm

    @smith: I doubt Willis will give a flying fuck about other Canon’s desires.

  106. 106.

    RaflW

    November 10, 2023 at 3:47 pm

    @Jackie: “We will withdraw jurisdiction from the courts.”

    It’s Calvinball, but with the legal system. It’s so blindingly obvious that the GOP is taking a blowtorch to our systems of government, and all of it in service to a deeply unpopular agenda.

    Our g.d. media can’t seem to stitch this together coherently, so we have to be the ones to do it.

  107. 107.

    Jackie

    November 10, 2023 at 3:56 pm

    @Pennsylvanian: Here’s the Business Insider link:

    https://www.businessinsider.com/far-right-blaming-taylor-swift-gop-election-losses-2023-11?amp

    It’s an amusing article – Taylor Swift really has the RWNJs’ panties in a twist LOL!

    Oh, and it’s not just Taylor: Barbie gets blamed, too!

  108. 108.

    TriassicSands

    November 10, 2023 at 4:05 pm

    @RaflW: He’ll absolutely go after them. [the media]

    Yeah, but they are probably fully prepared to start fawning all over TIFG and the Republiclowns and they (the media) think that will protect them. It won’t. Emmer didn’t vote to prevent certification of the election, so he was on Trump’s enemies list. Then, when he decided to run for Speaker, he went full-on MAGA cultist, but Trump said (to paraphrase) — It looks like he’s learned his lesson, but you never know, and scuttled Emmer’s candidacy. Once you’ve offended His Criminality, you aren’t going to undo it by bowing and scraping.

     

    The cluelessness of the media is pretty amazing.

  109. 109.

    dirge

    November 10, 2023 at 4:09 pm

    @cain: at Trump’s level people just take his word for it?

    Not quite how I’m reading it.

    Granted, at a certain scale, yes, “having money” and “persuading people who have money that you do too, or will in the future” aren’t actually different things.  But generally you have to make a pretty compelling case, with real evidence, following established rules.

    What I think was going with Deutsche Bank is that they were granting loans for reasons having nothing to do with Trump’s ability to repay, because they were actually acting as a conduit for Russian funds.  Since their actual business rationale was felony money laundering, they needed to dress it up as a loan.  So they work with Trump to put together an application package that everyone knows is bullshit, then  browbeat underwriting into letting it slide.

    So it’s probably true that the loan officer didn’t care if the financial statements were true.  He can’t ever admit that, though, or he’ll wind up in jail, or worse.

  110. 110.

    Frankensteinbeck

    November 10, 2023 at 4:33 pm

    @Jackie:

    “Several Republican lawmakers plan to fight the recently approved abortion rights amendment by trying to overthrow the judicial branch’s authority to interpret it,”

    I knew they would try something, and they would have to come up with something new because the amendment was phrased to stop previous ratfucking attempts.  IANAL, but I suspect the legislature cannot declare that the courts can’t interpret the law.  I doubt even the Roberts Court wants to sign onto that precedent.

  111. 111.

    trnc

    November 10, 2023 at 4:53 pm

    @RaflW: @peterbakernyt
    A signal from Trump that did not get much attention: “If I happen to be president and I see somebody who’s doing well and beating me very badly, I say, ‘Go down and indict them.’ They’d be out of business. They’d be out of the election.”

    Didn’t get a lot of attention? He was literally impeached for doing that.

  112. 112.

    Soprano2

    November 10, 2023 at 5:00 pm

    @Betty Cracker: They put it right out there in Project 2025 what they want to do, but the press would rather write another story about how old Biden is. It’s maddening, because there’s so much juicy stuff there if only they could bring themselves to talk about it.

  113. 113.

    AnotherKevin

    November 10, 2023 at 5:02 pm

    @RaflW: Amen!!!!! What a remarkable lack of self-awareness, both personally and institutionally.

  114. 114.

    RaflW

    November 10, 2023 at 5:24 pm

    @Frankensteinbeck: But of course we’re all just subject to Republican’s “messaging” problem post-Dobbs. It’s not like they’re being fascist Handmaids or anything.

  115. 115.

    Chief Oshkosh

    November 10, 2023 at 5:44 pm

    @WaterGirl: Moi non plus!

  116. 116.

    davek319

    November 10, 2023 at 5:57 pm

    @RaflW: Baker’s wife is Susan Glasser. She has a “Who coulda node?” Trump bit up in The New Yorker. Like she and her dink husband haven’t made bank normalizing the f*ck outta the Orange Julius Caesar for six years…

  117. 117.

    sab

    November 10, 2023 at 6:10 pm

    @davek319: They are why Inlet my New Yorker subscription lapse after 50 years. I even kept it through the Tina Browne years. I negan reading it in junior high school.

  118. 118.

    WaterGirl

    November 10, 2023 at 6:11 pm

    @Ruckus: You are right about that.

  119. 119.

    Kent

    November 10, 2023 at 11:04 pm

    @Mr. Bemused Senior:

    Ms Trump struggles to ‘recall’?

    Well, be fair.  It was a long time ago and she’s so busy.

    The early onset Alzheimer’s exhibited by the whole Trump clan is concerning, especially for a clan that wants to return to the White House.  I mean seriously.  Is there nothing that they can remember?

    And Trump himself?  My God, the dementia is becoming more prominent every day.

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