I find this effort from Nelle so interesting, and it feels important to me. And did I mention interesting? I’m so glad Nelle agreed to write this up for us!
The unexpected, informal project
by Nelle
I’m a chatty, older woman who will strike up a conversation with anyone, with little provocation. Even though that habit annoys my offspring, could I turn it into a super power, something that I could use for more than my own amusement?
After an incidental conversation with a young barista, I realized that she had something I wanted and that I might have something she wanted. I wanted to be connected to a younger generation again. For decades, I taught composition and intro to lit courses as an adjunct wherever we moved, from DePaul University to University of Alaska-Fairbanks, from University of Kansas to Montana Tech. I enjoyed learning from my students and now, after retirement, I feel too far out of touch with that age group.
What the young barista apparently wanted was someone to listen to her, at least that morning. I opened with a question. “If there was something that you thought it important for people my age to know and understand about people your age, what comes to mind first?” Emma launched into how her fear of a school shooting not only shaped her behavior at school, but that she was so convinced that she would die that way, that she hadn’t really made plans for after graduation because that seemed to be tempting fate. “So now I graduated but I have to figure out what to do next.” Then her eyes filled with tears. “But my little brother is just 13. Will he survive high school?”
The readiness to talk openly and quickly might just be a function of our two personalities, I thought. Yet, I decided to talk to other young people and see where it could lead. I talked to hotel desk clerks, to the beauty college student who cut my hair. More baristas, servers, the young guy who came to repair the furnace. I ask them what are the most important issues to them, or I gave them four issues (some examples – climate change, reproductive health policies, student debt, gun laws) and ask if they can rank them in importance to them. I saw where conversation would take me.
Twice, I’ve had young women, about 18 to 20, stop, look at me, and say, “No one has ever asked me what I thought before.” One woman said that the first thing she does in entering any building, retail or governmental or school, is to figure out where all the exits are, where hiding places might be, and that she keeps conscious of what the route is to the nearest exit as she moves through a Target or a Best Buy.
Another, within five minutes of beginning the conversation, said she was Mormon from a small town. “I’m bisexual. I’m not sure where I belong or who I can even talk to.”
If the tone is right, I do turn to politics. If political parties come up, I tell them, quite honestly, that I’m less interested in parties and allegiances, than I am with values and policies. And for now, that means that I’m thoroughly identifying most closely with Democrats. I ask them if they are registered to vote and if I can aid them in any way to get registered or to get information to them for voting.
I do find some who shrug off politics, saying it doesn’t interest them. Yet, a young man just came to the door this afternoon, trying to sell a new internet plan for Verizon. We ended up talking about politics and values for 25 minutes. He said, “More talking needs to happen between people of different ages. You’ve got me fired up to vote next week.” He thinks my best line is to tell people his age that people my age are deciding their future, making decisions that won’t affect us but will affect them.
I’m not quantifying anything, not tracking people, in any sort of structured program. This is just a scrambly little thing that I do. Also, I’m of the “throw a stone in a pond and let the ripples stretch out” sort of person. I hope I’m getting some people motivated to register and vote and to take friends with them. And I do other, more formal things; I’m the leader for my neighborhood to get out the vote and went around to the houses of registered Dems on Monday to remind those who haven’t yet voted to vote on November 7. It turns out that a lot of people on my street showed up yesterday; it’s a double whammy as my husband is a poll worker and tells me who has voted. And they know that he will be there.
Most of all, though, I want conversation across age groups. Young people, I found, want people who are genuinely interested in listening, in hearing what they think. I’ve got time for that. I’ve got the interest in them for that. This may just be an outgrowth of my personality and my emphasis on building community wherever I am, however I can. It has been a pleasure to do this.
Thank you, Nelle. You are an inspiration!
Grumpy Old Railroader
Just . . . wow!
Excellent primer in how to talk to young people without coming across as, ummm, grumpy.
Dorothy A. Winsor
Great project, Nelle. IMHO, having a project makes people happier, and this one is particularly ripe for happiness because you get to talk to young people and may be affecting the lives we all get to live.
Sister Golden Bear
Not all heros wear capes! Thanks for both your work, and for providing a primer about how others can do the same.
bbleh
That is very cool. And I think the desire for other people to understand what one is thinking/feeling isn’t limited to young people; eg my gym is mostly (other) older people, and just a little ice-breaking can get them to open up where they might otherwise just go about their workouts more or less in isolation.
I think also younger people are less likely to open up spontaneously to older people (especially, ahem, older men with a kind of “omg he’s probably one of them and carrying a gun or something” look), which kinda leaves the opening move to us. (Not talking here about the older people who will harangue whomever happens to be around about whatever is on their minds — there’s one in every gym.)
I heard of this guy called “Obama,” “Obammi” — something like that — who said something about the importance of engaging other people, listening, trying to find points of agreements or at least common points of reference, and so on. Sorta sounds similar. Wonder if it could catch on …
Wapiti
Very cool. Makes me think…
Nelle
I would love to hear about the small, ripply things that others do to build community. More ideas, more creativity. I’ve heard of libraries where people check out a person to listen to them. More like a Grandma bench (don’t some schools have friend benches, where kids can go sit if they want someone to play with them?). Does anyone take plates of cookies to neighbors anymore?
StringOnAStick
I described in the last thread how I had a sometimes heated discussion with a 60 year old purity pony last night who announced she refused to vote for Biden. Not a young person, but between the editorial about our choice in that thread and yesterday’s column by Heather Cox Richardson, plus getting her information on what Biden has done for the climate I think I have a very real chance of her to getting her to vote D. We’re in one of the 10 house districts that flipped R from D and we’re in the list of flippable seats, so her vote matters in the House and for President.
WaterGirl
@Grumpy Old Railroader: Perhaps you could start with not introducing yourself as grumpy? :-)
But don’t change your nym here, please, I love it.
Barbara
That is so awesome. I think about this a lot, I have young adult children so I do talk to them and their friends. I have to think about how best to expand my pool of young people to talk to.
Baud
Nelle is goddess.
ETA: Smart of you not to lead with the Democratic Party’s hazing ceremony for new recruits.
TeezySkeezy
@StringOnAStick: what purity ponies do not understand is that their decision to not vote for the only candidate who can win besides Trump is not theirs. It’s the conclusion their mind has reached after being exposed to right wing psyop propaganda convincing them that voting is a spiritual exercise instead of a pragmatic real world action that has real world effects in real peoples lives, including their own. Hard to tell them that though without pissing them off. Seems only Nelle types can thread that needle not skeezy types.
SiubhanDuinne
Nelle, this is really wonderful! Thank you for bringing warmth to a grey and chilly day.
With your permission, I’d like to send your essay to my cousin, who hosts a popular, community-oriented weekly “open line” radio program. I think this would be right up his alley, and would begin spreading your ideas to a foreign-yet-similar audience (he’s in Canada, so some of the specific issues would obviously differ, but the broader principle would certainly apply).
Thank you for your initiative, and for sharing your experiences with us.
SiubhanDuinne
@Baud:
Shout it.
Kathleen
Good for you, Nelle! Wonderful project.
pluky
One of the main attributes of Avalokiteshvara, the Bodhisattva of Mercy and Compassion, is that she listens. Her name literally means ‘She who hears the world’. You’re on to something major here.
emjayay
Maybe Nelle could have pointed out to the barista that the chance of a student getting killed in a school shooting in any year is about one out of 3,750,000, or one out of 235,000 over sixteen years.
I’m guessing that this is far below the stats for dying in a car crash or slipping in the bathroom.
Joax
I always am quick to engage. I live in southern Mexico, out in the country. Campesino land. It is common to say “Buenos dias,” but if you add “Como estas?” I often get an earful now that I have actually asked what they are thinking. Also, every school kid learns declamation in school, public speaking. And, I have seen it over and over, someone will step forward, looking shy and humble and bang, all of a sudden, they are loud, forceful, passionate and well-spoken.
H.E.Wolf
Every time Nelle has said something in comments about her community-building/get out the vote actions, I’m always so impressed and so inspired.
What a thrill to have an entire post! Thank you Nelle! And thank you WaterGirl for front-paging this.
Miss Bianca
Nelle, I’ve been following your comments with interest as you’ve begun to outline your project, and all I can say is, Brava! Thanks for sharing more.
Most of my talking/sharing experience with young folk these days is through the theater – and it’s been comforting to realize that alien as some of our elder/youth experiences may be to one another, something about being a theater geek does seem to transcend age!
Nelle
@SiubhanDuinne: Certainly, you can share it.
One of my goals, when teaching, was, on discussion days, to enter the classroom with a question. And it needed to be a question for which I didn’t have an answer. Here was the pattern: I dictated the question for everyone to write down. Then they spent at least five minutes writing their answer (this was to slow down the fast responders and to give the hesitant time and a chance to write out their responses – very hesitant people could email me ahead of class to get the question before they came. Can you tell that I had a very shy, introverted sister?). Then we went around the circle (ideally a circle) and each person read their response. Then discussion began (extra points for referring to other people’s responses by name and detail). I spent a fair amount of time developing the questions.
I try to keep things as open as possible when talking to young people. They teach so much. Curiosity about them, without being intrusive, is a great thing.
dnfree
I think this fits here, since I saw a reference to purity ponies. Some leaders breaking away from the DSA.
https://newrepublic.com/article/176781/open-letter-why-leaving-democratic-socialists-america
Great idea to make this a project, Nelle. My contribution is trying to be polite when responding to people who disagree with me online. I know I won’t change their minds by calling them an idiot, even if they are.
Citizen Alan
I like this formulation a lot and I’ve said similar things. I know a lot of people who support the GOP for the same reason they are Southern Baptists and Atlanta Braves fans. Because it’s their team. But for me, I have a list of issues that are important to me personally, and on everyone of them the Dems agree with my position and the Republicans are opposed. (A statement, btw, that led my RWNJ sister to literally run screaming out of the room when I responded that way to a question about why I was a Democrat.) If I woke up tomorrow in some Bizarro parallel universe where the Republicans were all LGBT+ supporting, pro-choice, BLM members who wanted progressive taxation, and the Dems basically wanted to bring back slavery, I would change my party registration asap. But I live in this world, where the Dems are flawed but decent and the GOP is irredeemably evil by every measure I iknow.
Trivia Man
Gregarious is my middle name, I got it from my dad. Drives my mrs bankers – I will have a conversation with anybody, anytime.
I am always hyper aware that old, white guy can scare people. (Creep? Lech? Trumper?) so I tread carefully.
I have told many young people “It is YOUR WORLD, take control. If you can convince your peers to vote then you can mild it to the way it should be to suit you,” I also make it a point to say how proud I am of their compassion and activism. Gay rights, environment, prison reform… way better than I expected.
Queen of Lurkers
@pluky:
Quoting a reliable source on the Avalokiteshvara:
His name is derived from the Sanskrit words avalokita, meaning “to look on from above,” and ishvara, meaning “lord,” and has been interpreted as “the lord who looks in every direction” or “the lord of what we see.”
https://mapacademy.io/article/avalokiteshvara/#:~:text=His%20name%20is%20derived%20from,manifestation%20of%20Amitabha%2C%20the%20celestial
Baud
@Citizen Alan:
Yeah, I would have been a Republican in 1860. Maybe in 2160, the Republicans will be the good guys again. But this is 2023, and life has given me only one choice.
Betty Cracker
That’s terrific, Nelle!
neldob
Thanks. I do a lot of political chatting on Nextdoor and this gave me some inspirations.
Nelle
Thanks for the kind comments. I’m just a talker, trying to find a channel!
WaterGirl
@Nelle:
Rotating tag!
Holofcener
Progressives generally privilege science and rationality over superstition, so it’s odd how so many have normalized the absolutely irrational, batshit craziness that allows people to think that school shootings are a threat to their safety.
In reality, more people are struck by lightning than are killed in school shootings in the US.
zhena gogolia
@Nelle: You have a lot more patience than I do!
Omnes Omnibus
@Holofcener: We can/should be able to do something about one of them. JFC!
Betty Cracker
@Holofcener: That’s a crappy comparison on several levels. First, it’s not true — many more Americans die in mass shootings than lightning strikes per year. (Mass shootings at parades, concerts, theaters, grocery stores, churches, bowling alleys, etc., count as well as schools because they contribute to the national trauma.) And lightning strikes don’t kill dozens in a single location, ripping the hearts out of communities. Also, we know how to stop or at least greatly curtail mass shootings. A minority of partisan officials makes a choice to let it happen.
SiubhanDuinne
@Holofcener:
Ohio Mom
I will be thinking about this. I have a nascent friendship with a young autism mom. So far I have been the source of resources and reassurance but that makes it a very uneven relationship.
On what may or may not be a related note — reaching out or not across generations — I have a question I’ve been wrestling with. MIL has asked if she can bring her neighbor to Thanksgiving.
MIL lives in a ritzy retirement home, this is someone who lives in an apartment down the hall from her. She brought this woman — we’ll call her Dolly, because that’s what she goes by — to Passover and Dolly was quiet and well-behaved, even with the pro-Palestinian paragraphs I included in our homemade Haggadah.
I’ve just learned that Dolly is a Republican. I am beyond irritated that I am supposed to welcome into my home (again) someone who has spent her life imperiling the future of my son, who as you all know, is autistic and will need to rely on what passes for a social safety net in this country, assuming people like Dolly don’t succeed in riping it into shreds and then who knows.
Do I have to include her? Do I ask her to meet with me and give her an opportunity to make her case and/or for me to explain why I can’t bear to fete her?
I don’t want to leave it to MIL to tell her she’s not invited, it would just be an opportunity for MIL to bad mouth me.
Or is this all beyond churlish of me? Dolly’s children all live far away and she is too old to travel. Should I have pity on her?
Thanking you all in advance.
gwangung
@Miss Bianca: Yes! Exactly!
Theatre is the one place where I can reliably interact with younger people. While there’s a power differential (I’m the producer, I hire them), I can still interact with them and learn from them.
Mousebumples
If i remember right, you’re in Iowa, Nelle. I was encouraged by the losses suffered by Mom’s for “Liberty” in Iowa last week. I went to college there, and I still have some left leaning friends across the state. I’m hopeful that these sorts of conversations can help mitigate some of the red, red representation.
Thank you!
trollhattan
I love, love this, you’re an inspiration Nellie!
The lingering fear of school shootings real and widespread. Mine had a 4th grade lockdown when there was a shootout in the school’s neighborhood and that, coupled with the many, many drills that followed has really warped her and her peers’ minds. “Who’s most likely to shoot up the school?” is a constant theme discussed daily.
I’d compare it to growing up fearing being melted in a Soviet nuclear shootout but it’s somehow different, probably because it’s not just a what-if? threat but a very real occurrence repeated again and again.
And again and again and again.
Kelly
@Holofcener: according to weather.gov 20 people a year die by lightning
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.weather.gov/safety/lightning-victims%23:~:text%3DLightning%2520kills%2520about%252020%2520people,survivors%2520suffer%2520lifelong%2520neurological%2520damage.&ved=2ahUKEwjFz8TAnb-CAxXCOn0KHYvwAC0QFnoECBIQBQ&usg=AOvVaw2FhQFYaIZkDi1dAmPk4dgK
trollhattan
@Betty Cracker:
“When lightning rods are outlawed, only outlaws will have lightning rods.” God love the NLA!
West of the Rockies
I love this post; I love the way your mind works, Nelle. I, too, am a retired adjunct comp/lit instructor. I choose to write in a coffee house that is close to the U and is mostly young people (and which plays young people music). I love Eilish, Lil Nas X, etc. My non-binary, gender-fluid kid is 22. I also talk to the Youngs.
H.E.Wolf
@SiubhanDuinne:
You are your usual astute self, I see. :)
I try to be mindful of the time-zone difference. It was evening/nighttime in Russia when that troll commented. Working hours!
Correlation is not causation, of course… but it’s interesting that a troll would show up with an off-topic, meant-to-be-inflaming comment in a post full of conversations about doing good in one’s community and in the world.
kalakal
@Nelle: That’s terrific. And what a brilliant approach
So many conversations turn out to be 2 people talking about themselves while talking to each other, concentrating on “how do I impress this person?” rather than on the other.
Your opening statement is superb, asking someone to teach/educate you is a great way of showing you have respect for them as a person and value their thoughts. People don’t get that often enough
Betty Cracker
@Ohio Mom: I would include her since she’s been a guest before and behaved herself. But only if it wouldn’t make you uncomfortable.
Ohio Mom
@Ohio Mom: I realize that my question may sound like I missed the point of this post but I am thinking that a 90 year old is probably pretty set in their ways.
WaterGirl
@Holofcener:
Juju
@Holofcener: I don’t think that the people who are concerned about school shootings are just concerned about school shootings. My guess is that they mean mass shooting. The most recent well publicized mass shooting took place in a bowling alley and then a restaurant. Mass shootings have happened in night clubs, grocery stores, universities, churches and synagogues, department stores and so many places I can’t keep them all straight. Mass shootings weren’t much of a concern when I was younger, but they do give me pause now, especially since the weapons mass shooters use tend to be the kind of weapon that… well I don’t even like to think about what they do and have done to my fellow human beings.
frosty
@WaterGirl: Sigh. The dessert cart comes out again.
Ohio Mom
@trollhattan: We had drills in elementary where we crouched under our desks. The teachers downplayed exactly why we were doing so, to not traumatize us. I remember being confused by the activity.
By the time I was a teenager, I knew we weren’t going to be incinerated by the Russians, especially since was the late 1960s and we were all cynical about what the government told us.
By the time today’s kids enter high school, they know school shootings happen regularly and they could be next. It has to be scarier the older you get.
I admit that I had a little sigh of relief when Ohio Son graduated community college — whatever other dangers the world would present, school shootings were now off the table.
Juju
@WaterGirl: That’s probably a good idea. I wasn’t think troll as much as idiot, but rereading, it seems like troll.
CarolPW
I doubt teaching kids lightning safety (don’t be the tallest thing, don’t shelter under trees, lie down in a ditch, etc) is anywhere near as traumatizing as teaching school shooter safety. And after all, the lightning isn’t actually stalking anyone with evil intent.
Ohio Mom
@Betty Cracker: As I recall, you have your share of right-wing relatives. I must sound like Marie Antoinette to you. Thanks for the perspective.
WaterGirl
@Juju: Looks like a hit and run, too. At least there’s that.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: Did you see Hungry Joe’s request at the end of your thread?
sab
Nelle sounds ligke one my sisters-in-law. We go out for lunch at a diner, and we turn around and she is chatting with the busboy taking a smoking break by the back door. We go to Costco and she stops to lecture a complete stranger about the risk of leaving her purse unattended in her shopping cart. She has saved at least one life in my family by finding a person at risk by questionning everyone and anyone who might help.
sab
@CarolPW: I found our hide under your desk from atom bomb attacks ( Florida, 1960s) in elementary school scary then but useful when I moved to California amd experienced my first big earthquake with no prior training.
School shooting trainimg is on a whole other level.
SteveinPHX
In my work, I encounter some younger people. I’m waay into my 70’s. I’m going to put some notes on a card, like that question, “If there was something that you thought it important for people my age to know and understand about people your age, what comes to mind first?”
I’m not naturally inclined this way, so it may take some practice!
Just fascinating.
Mousebumples
@Ohio Mom: I can’t speak to you and your comfort level, but if you feel assertive enough (and have your spouse/others ready to back you up), you can invite her and make a point of repeatedly crediting Sen. Brown, Pres. Biden, etc. It may not change her mind, but being out and proud about being a Democrat *might* change her her mind or perception.
And if she responds negatively, it’s an excuse to not invite her back the next year.
I personally pick my battles with more politically conservative family. A lot of them are Old School Conservatives who are turned off by Trumpism. So questioning how bringing an elected official into a doctor’s office is Limited Government is more effective. But definitely a know your audience (and know your personal limits) situation.
Good luck.
Nelle
I was thinking of some responses (repeated trauma of drills, what about kids who already have firearms trauma in their lives going through drills?) when it was pointed out the trolling was trolling for us.
I do think that such blithe statements show a disregard for the context of individual children and what they might have already experienced in their lives. One young woman, in highschool in 2001, later said that it put the nail in the coffin that adults were the responsible ones. Her own experience had been that adults could be trusted to care for the wellbeing of children but the response of the politicians to 9/11 showed her not to trust them to be sane or well-intentioned, but would capitalize on any crisis for their own gain. I would think that repeated shootings, drills, and the failure of adults to curb them would induce a similar dismay at the inability of adults to set aside their agendas for the protection of children. See Sandy Hook.
WaterGirl
@Mousebumples:
I was going to write something very similar to your first paragraph.
My second paragraph was that maybe it would make the Republican visitor very uncomfortable, so maybe she wouldn’t want to come to the next one!
Either you win her over or you scare her off, or she outs herself as an ass that you can easily not invite again.
Win-win-win.
cc: @Ohio Mom:
zhena gogolia
@Nelle: But it’s not all adults. It’s Republican adults. How do we get that through their heads?
If Democrats had been in power for the last 40 years, we would have Australia-style gun control. It goes to not only legislation but obviously the Supreme Court as well. Anyone who’s concerned about ANY of the problems that face us needs to vote Democratic in every election. I get tired of hearing that young people don’t trust us. If we had had MY party in charge for a good stretch of time, these problems would be much less severe. Much less. In some cases nonexistent.
This is why I don’t have the patience to have these conversations.
Betty Cracker
@Nelle: Fred Guttenberg, the Parkland dad who became a gun safety advocate after his 14-year-old daughter was murdered in 2018, is tortured by the idea that he failed his kid. He says it shouldn’t have taken her murder to spur him to action when kids were being senselessly slaughtered on the regular.
I think he’s too hard on himself. Life is busy and messy and complicated. The majority of Americans want common sense gun safety laws — even most Repubs. It’s a minority of public officials who refuse to act. I’m not saying “the adults” are blameless, but I think the vast majority of us aren’t indifferent.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
@Ohio Mom: If it will make you feel better about having her over, then offer up a prayer before the meal that thanks the people who put government programs in place that have helped your family. Thanksgiving is literally about giving thanks for the blessings you’ve received. I think that is a little different than others suggesting you bring your politics up as a way of making her a bit uncomfortable. It might have the effect of making her uncomfortable, but your gratitude for those government supports is understandable and sincere. I have my share of RWNJ relatives, too.
Mike in Pasadena
Excellent.
Put me down as impressed that Nelle has the brains to ask younger people to speak up and the tone of voice and a face that encourage responses. Most of the younger generation I ask to speak or tell me what concerns them simply shrug or give me one syllable answers. I readily recognize I must be doing something wrong. I’m probably scaring them: old man, scarred and wrinkled face, gray hair. . . . I’ll keep trying ‘cuz I’m interested. Maybe smiling more would help.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
Right wing churches often recruit members by just reaching out to people they see who are alone, especially if they look sad, and starting a conversation. It is a very powerful approach. I love that Nelle is reaching out to people and not just listening, but opening the door to shared understanding.
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
I agree and same here. But it’s hard to tell people truths they’re not ready to hear.
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Yes! Some people need that human connection, and it’s something bad actors understand.
Brachiator
A fascinating and illuminating post.
This really stood out to me.
WaterGirl
Nelle, if you’re still here, I want to thank you again for graciously agreeing to write this up for us!
Another Scott
@Ohio Mom:
She’s the same person you had over earlier. The fact that she is still willing / wanting / able to come shows that she’s not a complete monster. ;-)
Maybe forget that you found out that she’s a Republican? Maybe she won’t change her ways, but maybe she will. And maybe others that know her will be inspired by your example.
Just some thoughts. Good luck!
Cheers,
Scott.
West of the Rockies
@WaterGirl:
And thanks for being the facilitator! Too bad a knucklehead derailed a portion of the thread.
Nelle
@WaterGirl: Thanks for asking me to do so. I will repeat, your contributions here deserve so much gratitude.
Subsole
@Holofcener:
You must be a great comfort at funerals.
Actually, y’know what? That’s a little harsh for a thread dedicated to the nobility of conversation. I apologize.
Without looking it up and taking your assertion at face value…ok.
Given (purely for the sake of argument) that that be the case, what is the thesis here?
That school shootings aren’t horrible? That people have no right to be scared of that violence?
I am not seeing your logic here. Please expand the thought.
Subsole
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:
Yeah. And then fill their heads with the most utterly benighted, hateful, CryptoSatanic bullshit imaginable…
This country is going to have to reckon with how brutally atavistic the modern religions have become. And the bulk of that effort is going to fall on believers.
Holofcener
@Betty Cracker:
@Kelly:
You’re misreading what I wrote. Here are the facts:
Notice that that is 183 deaths from 2000 to 2021 – 21 years. So, about 8 deaths per year on average. (https://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/indicator/a01/violent-deaths-and-shootings)
There are about 270 people struck by lightning every year in the United States.
I wrote that more people are struck by lightning than are killed in school shootings.
Even if you compare only deaths to deaths, more people are still killed by lightning ever year – about 20.
The simple fact is that the chances of a child dying in a school shooting are far more remote than a person being struck by lightning. It’s extraordinarily rare.
Anyone who wakes up worrying about whether they will survive going to school is very out of touch with reality.
Holofcener
@Subsole:
Of course school shootings are horrible. All deaths are horrible. It’s is a tragedy for all involved.
My point is that school shootings are vanishingly rare. Again, far more likely to be struck by lightning.
Normalizing an irrational fear of school shootings has a price. Subjecting children to “active shooter drills” inflicts a terrible psychological toll —
Emma has internalized that irrational paranoia that adults have inflicted on her. How many tens of thousands of children are walking around with such psychic damage that will follow them into adulthood?
Another Scott
@Holofcener: You’re cherry-picking.
Why should there be any incidents with guns at any schools?
GunViolenceArchive.org lists 45 incidents with guns so far – this month – in the USA. They’re not all shootings, but:
2 victims killed
5 victims injured
1 suspect killed
1 suspect injured
34 suspects arrested
In 12 days.
This is not something that a civilized society should accept. And it is not sensibly compared to deaths from lightning.
When I was in grade school, I often wondered why we weren’t “winning” in Vietnam and if I was going to be drafted and end up fighting over there. Kids notice what’s going on in the world and it has a real effect on them. Mansplaining that their fears are “irrational” using cherry-picked statistics doesn’t help anything and is not persuasive who are living with those real concerns.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
Gvg
@Holofcener: you are only counting the fatalities. There were 249 school shooting incidents in 2021 and 50 fatalities in 2022 (highest ever). That was only 153 incidents through June of 2022. Lots more shootings than deaths.
No stats of false alarms and drills but I can tell you that number is really high. I get them all the time as a University employee. It traumatizes the youth.
Lightning strikes don’t.
The rate of school shootings has been going up. Averaged with stats from the 70’s it doesn’t sound high, but it actually is now. It’s higher than lightning NOW.
Gvg
@Holofcener: 40 are struck by lightning each year, about 20 are killed in the US. Easy to look up
Another Scott
@Holofcener: @Another Scott:
BTW, a colleague’s son suffered a broken leg from jumping out of a classroom window to escape the Virginia Tech shooter.
At least he wasn’t struck by lightning, huh??
Grr…,
Scott.
Torrey
@Ohio Mom:
Devil’s advocate here. A person who is 90 years old and Republican probably became a Republican, i.e., developed the habit of voting and got her party registration, in the 1950’s. Odds are, she’s an Eisenhower Republican. We know that people have traditionally tended to keep their early voting habits, so there’s no reason to think she’s a Trump Republican, or even necessarily a Reagan true believer. In fact, she might just be a normie.
Working with just the information you provided and assuming reasonable good will on you MIL’s part in wanting to give her friend the opportunity of enjoying a Thanksgiving dinner in a family atmosphere, my inclination would be to invite her and give her the benefit of the doubt. Ideally, you won’t find out much about her politics in any case, since she didn’t make a point of it at Passover. I would avoid trying to work in any comments about politics or policies, but if occasion arises to express your gratitude for the programs that support your son, go for it. The point made above about policies over identity hits the mark.
It goes without saying that it’s your event, and you should do what you want. But it sounds like inviting Dolly will be a kindness, both to her and to your MIL, won’t disrupt proceedings, and may provide an opportunity for her to learn something–and perhaps for you to learn something about who she really is, other than a Republican. If Dolly were actually Uncle Charlie MAGA, he of the loud voice and louder opinions, my answer would be very different.
sab
@Nelle: Off your topic, but ten years ago my granddaughter tried to poison herself. We knew she was in trouble but we didn’t know where. My pushy, kind, sticks her nose into everyone’s business sister-in-law did her usual kind, nosy, sticks herself into everything and found her puking her guts out in a MacDonalds restroom.
Cops came through. Friends came through. Restaurant manager came through but didn’t understand what was happening. Only the well-meaning nosy can help. Not the nosy because they want to collect garbage. Just the people who figure out the undercurrents.
We came so close to losing my granddaughter that I cannot believe it. Still shakes us up ten years later. She wanted to die, and we did not even know it
ETA And my nosy sister-in-law saved her.
WaterGirl
@West of the Rockies: Ah, he was gone and forgotten pretty quickly
edit: I see that I was wrong about that.
Ohio Mom
@Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony: Oh, I like that!