Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Elections aren’t won by handwringing, cowering, and/or bashing your own candidates.

Well, whatever it is, it’s better than being a Republican.

We’ve had enough carrots to last a lifetime. break out the sticks.

JFC, are there no editors left at that goddamn rag?

Proof that we need a blogger ethics panel.

Conservatism: there are people the law protects but does not bind and others who the law binds but does not protect.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

How any woman could possibly vote for this smug smarmy piece of misogynistic crap is beyond understanding.

Another missed opportunity for Jamie Dimon to just shut the fuck up.

The gop couldn’t organize an orgy in a whorehouse with a fist full of 50s.

We’ll be taking my thoughts and prayers to the ballot box.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

fuckem (in honor of the late great efgoldman)

The current Supreme Court is a rogue court. Very dangerous.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

The willow is too close to the house.

Bad news for Ron DeSantis is great news for America.

He imagines himself as The Big Bad, Who Is Universally Feared… instead of The Big Jagoff, Who Is Universally Mocked.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

Optimism opens the door to great things.

“In the future, this lab will be a museum. don’t touch it.”

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

You are here: Home / Politics / Go Michigan! (Open Thread)

Go Michigan! (Open Thread)

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Go Michigan! (Open Thread)
Gov. Gretchen Whitmer shows off her mittens featuring Michigan’s upper and lower peninsulas during the Michigan Inauguration on Jan. 1, 2023. (Andrew Roth/Michigan Advance)

Big shout-out to Michigan!  Getting voting rights enshrined in their constitution was a game-changer for Michigan.  Remember, we helped make that happen with our contributions to Promote the Vote in 2022.

Go Michigan!

🌸

🌸

Whatever “it” is, Gretchen Whitmer has it.

Open thread.

Reader Interactions

96Comments

  1. 1.

    cain

    Out of curiosity – do we ever see such kind of messaging in red states from other governors? For some reason, all they have is social issues- but you hardly read anything about bills and what not that are creating economic opportunities like this?

  6. 6.

    Nukular Biskits

    I figure probably a lot of folks here probably also cruise by DailyKos but I thought this important and interesting enough to share:

    It’s not the quarantine that made so many other diseases surge: It’s the COVID

    The world is nearly four years into the COVID-19 pandemic, but how the SARS-CoV-2 virus damages human lives, both in the short term and across a span of years, is still becoming clear. Earlier this month, a study in Lancet showed that 54% of those infected in the first months of the pandemic were still experiencing symptoms over three years later.

    That study, like almost all news surrounding COVID-19, isn’t getting even a fraction of the attention it deserves as media outlets, businesses, and government join a collective effort to ignore the truth about this disease. However, there is another series of studies that should be getting even more attention.

    Those studies, as summed up by the World Health Network, show that COVID-19 can have a direct negative effect on the immune system. These results suggest that surges in other diseases in the wake of the pandemic may not be due to “immunity debt,” as many had earlier suggested, but could be spurred by direct damage to the immune systems of those who had symptomatic and even asymptomatic cases of COVID-19. That includes children.

  8. 8.

    Almost Retired

    In 2016 I thought Michigan was slipping away.  But Dems fought back and fought smart and are taking full advantage of their power in the state.  I hope the same thing happens in Wisconsin.

  10. 10.

    Jeffro

    @cain:Out of curiosity – do we ever see such kind of messaging in red states from other governors? For some reason, all they have is social issues- but you hardly read anything about bills and what not that are creating economic opportunities like this?

    It’s a great thing to point out (endlessly!)

    The GOP’s perpetual culture-warriors could be actually trying to do things that make their constituents’ lives better in concrete ways…but that takes ideas, and work.  They have neither.

    Or to put it another way: in an alternate and much better timeline, the GOP attempts to compete with the Democratic Party on ways that we could mitigate climate change, lower the harm from gun violence of all kinds, and provide high-quality education to all of our citizens.  But I guess that would make for boring Ted Cruz podcasts and fewer Nancy Mace media appearances, so…culture war it is!

  11. 11.

    Jeffro

    @Almost Retired:Dems fought back and fought smart and are taking full advantage of their power in the state.

    And this is a great lesson for Dems everywhere, too: when you have power…USE it.  Flex HARD.

  12. 12.

    Scout211

    Our favorite anti-hero has a new book.  And CNN  says she names names.  Long read but full of juicy bits.

    In her new book, former Rep. Liz Cheney paints a scathing portrait of the Republican Party, condemning her former colleagues and party leaders as “enablers and collaborators,” who after the 2020 election were “willing to violate their oath to the Constitution out of political expediency and loyalty to Donald Trump.”

    The book, “Oath and Honor,” which was obtained exclusively by CNN ahead of its Dec. 5 release, is an unflinching account of what Cheney calls the GOP’s “cowardice,” and how so many were willing to support former President Donald Trump, who she calls “the most dangerous man ever to inhabit the Oval Office.”

    Cheney delivers a particularly devastating takedown of former House Speaker Kevin McCarthy, who she says told her that Trump knew he’d lost the election. Cheney is also critical of McCarthy’s successor, House Speaker Mike Johnson, who “appeared especially susceptible to flattery from Trump and aspired to being anywhere in Trump’s orbit,” she writes.

    The book serves both as a roadmap laying out how Cheney realized in the days and weeks following the election the dangers of what Trump and his allies were trying to do to overturn the 2020 election, as well as a stark warning that she believes the checks and balances of the Constitution will not hold if Trump is reelected in 2024.

    “As a nation, we can endure damaging policies for a four-year term. But we cannot survive a president willing to terminate our Constitution,” the Wyoming Republican writes.

    Following Cheney’s prominent role as vice chair of the House’s January 6 committee, which uncovered critical new details about Trump’s attempts to overturn the 2020 election, her book is a first-hand account of what was going on behind the scenes — and she names names.

  13. 13.

    cain

    @Old School:

    @cain: Pretty sure Republican doctrine is that it isn’t the government’s role to create those opportunities.

    But apparently it is their role to enforce Christian evangelical doctrine.

     

  15. 15.

    wjca

    @WaterGirl: Economic opportunities?  Promoted by Republicans?  In a red state?  Surely you jest.

    Depends if you count (massive) financial, and especially tax, incentives for businesses which don’t need it.  Particularly those aimed at political donor business owners.

  17. 17.

    Johnny C. Lately

    I know we got important work to do now, but sometimes I just want to hurry up and got on to 28 so I can vote for Whitmer for president

  18. 18.

    cain

    @Jeffro: “culture war” bills is “easy” since you have many media platforms that will spread it around but it also generates personal wealth for a lot of people.

    It’s essentially, the political version of reality TV – which is along similar thing. Easy to produce, lot of payback.

  20. 20.

    Nukular Biskits

    @cain:

    Out of curiosity – do we ever see such kind of messaging in red states from other governors? For some reason, all they have is social issues- but you hardly read anything about bills and what not that are creating economic opportunities like this?

    Here in MS, throughout the campaign season, Republican Gov. Reeves really pushed social issues.  When he did mention economic issues (such as development or infrastructure), he would all but refuse to acknowledge the source for a lot of those funds:  the federal gov’t.

  25. 25.

    gratuitous

    I don’t mean to short-change Gov. Whitmer, who is indeed doing stellar work, but isn’t it amazing how taking the popular side of an issue results in win after win? I wonder why more Democratically-controlled states don’t do just this?

  26. 26.

    WaterGirl

    @smith: The first time I saw  Whitmer speak, it was in the final days before the 2020 election.  Wowser, she is so smart, so strong.  She is a powerhouse with charisma to spare.

  28. 28.

    wu ming

    Not knowing much about the details, I’m curious: does this place Michigan ahead of what the West Coast states have been doing in recent years, or is this Michigan catching up with the leading edge, policy-wise? Either way, it’s great news.

    Now if we could just find a way to get past the insane GOP gerrymanders in WI, NC, and OH and start restoring basic democratic processes, there might be a shot at replicating this sort of thing (the MI ballot measures on voting, redistricting, and weed in 2018 were an absolute watershed moment).

  29. 29.

    Mallard Filmore

    @cain: 

    But apparently it is their role to enforce Christian evangelical doctrine.

    That brings up a question that would be good to spring on Mike Johnson. Bringing Biblical law to the USA would bring many changes. The old testament says adulterers should be stoned.

    What should happen to the adulterer Trump?

  30. 30.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @WaterGirl:

    Economic opportunities? Promoted by Republicans? In a red state? Surely you jest.

    It’s mystifying.  For example, Hyundai has just announced a $2b investment in an EV battery plant next door to a $5.5b EV plant that’ll come online in 2025 in GA.

    Of course the foreign car makers make damn sure these plants are in the so-called Right-to-Work (For Less) in the South.

    But, why the GA governor doesn’t tout this to the skies is beyond me.

  31. 31.

    smith

    While we’re on the subject, what is it with Michigan and women politicians? I believe all the major statewide offices there are now held by women. Not only is Whitmer amazing, their AG was the first to indict false electors and has gone after Repubs who were caught messing with voting machines in the service of the Big Lie. With the exception of GA, I believe all the other states where that nonsense was going on are still dithering around.

    And then there’s Jennifer Granholm. It broke my heart that she’s not qualified to run for president.

  32. 32.

    Hoppie

    @WaterGirl: Red state economic opportunity is based on low taxes, right-to-work laws, outright subsidies, and taking full advantage of Joe’s reinvest in America policies and laws.  Many of them are canny about exploiting that.  Look where the chip plant and battery infrastructure investment is going.  (We should not begrudge this, it will help turn some states purple, if we survive that long.)

  34. 34.

    wjca

    @Almost Retired: Dems fought back and fought smart and are taking full advantage of their power in the state.  I hope the same thing happens in Wisconsin.

    And North Carolina!

  35. 35.

    Martin

    So, Covid update is that daughter and I are still negative. Looking more likely we dodged an 8 hour drive in a Prius with a covid positive Ms Martin coughing and sneezing in the back seat. I was certain our precautions would prove insufficient, but so far things are looking okay.

    Masks and ventilation, people. Cheap and easy.

  39. 39.

    eclare

    @cain:

    I think Brian Kemp, gov of GA, is, which makes him dangerous.  Same as all the other RWNJ’s on social issues, but quieter about it.

    Supposedly the solar/battery industry in GA is booming.  Could be due to fed $, I don’t know, but he sees a good message.

    Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong.

  46. 46.

    Ken

    @Nukular Biskits: [Mississippi governor Reeves] would all but refuse to acknowledge the source for a lot of those funds:  the federal gov’t.

    Federal TANF funds, for example, which not only built the infrastructure of the Volleyball Center at the University of Southern Mississippi, but paid Brett Favre to promote it in some not-totally-defined manner.

  48. 48.

    Matt McIrvin

    @cain: Tax cuts and deregulation. For years the conventional wisdom was that red states were great places to be for economic opportunity because of low taxes and lax regulations on corporations. But all that culture-warring and defunding of education does create workforce problems.

  49. 49.

    CaseyL

    @cain: The GOP – and, more importantly, their voters – have been thoroughly marinaded in propaganda for 40+ years that it is not the role of government to do anything to help ordinary people.

    I mean that quite seriously.

    Got into an interesting online exchange a few years back with someone who was enraged by the very idea of a UBI.  They went on about how awful it was that some people would get money for not working, and how everyone should have to work, etc.

    I pointed out that some people are just not suitable for employment at a regular job, for various reasons.  Some mental health related, but I also think about people who can’t get along with anyone, who can’t seem to be trained to do anything, who are completely unreliable, completely untrustworthy, completely anti-social, and on and on.

    Why, I asked, should these people “have” to work?  Why also, I asked, should they be inflicted as co-workers on anyone?  (We’ve all had experience with these kinds of people, and they tend to be nightmares to deal with.)

    The person kept on about how unfair it was for people who don’t work to get enough money to live.

    I finally pointed out that if it bothered them that much, then they should remember that they, too, would have the option to take UBI and not have to deal with the unfairness of it all.  They could BE the free rider, rather than bitch and moan about free riders.

    Didn’t get a reply to that one.

  51. 51.

    topclimber

    @Old School: Yet the US spent  $637 billion on outside contractors, who proliferate under the Republican doctrine of privatization. That’s about 10% of the total.

    I don’t see the GOP dropping off that particular gravy train. Certainly not at the Red state level, where corruption and cronyism is so much easier.

  52. 52.

    lowtechcyclist

    @WaterGirl: ​
     

    Wouldn’t mind a thread sometime on whose nyms we find interesting.

    My favorite here, hands down, is Odie Hugh Manatee.

  53. 53.

    Another Scott

    @Scout211:

    Quoting from the CNN blockquote:

    … if Trump is reelected in 2024.

    This construction burns me up.

    Reelection commonly means to win a seat again, consecutively.

    Grover Cleveland was not reelected, he was elected twice, non-consecutively.

    Going along with this “reelected” phrasing implicitly supports TIFG’s contention that he’s still president.

    Grr…!
    Scott.

  55. 55.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Ken:

    Not only that but at least 600,000K went to the statewide rightwing propaganda outlet, SuperTalkFM, which heavily promoted a scam which was supposed to lift people of poverty but, in reality, lined some well-connected pockets.

    The host of the flagship show, Paul Gallo, is a thin-skinned petty little man (and big MAGA promoter) who has refused to answer any questions about his involvement.

  58. 58.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: Yep, every day. I wouldn’t have bet a nickel we’d make that trip without getting sick and I suppose there’s a small chance we can still get symptoms, but it’s been 3 days. Ms Martin and I FaceTime from across the house.

    And she’s doing fine. feeling a little better today. Probably test negative on Thurs is my guess.

  60. 60.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Mallard Filmore:

    I haven’t tried to find what Mike Johnson’s position on immigrants is, but I bet it’s the standard “crisis at the border, invasion from the south” GOP line.

    But Deuteronomy is crystal clear on this subject: “The Lord your God…loves the alien who lives among you, giving him food and clothing.  You too must love the alien, for you once lived as aliens in Egypt.”  (Deut. 10:18-19)

    So needless to say, I’d love to ask him how he feels about immigrants.

  61. 61.

    WaterGirl

    @Martin: My fingers are still crossed!

    I bet she is so grateful to be home.  When you’re sick, you don’t want to be somewhere else, and you certainly don’t want to be stuck in a vehicle for 8 hours.  I’m sure that was a dreadful 8 hours for her. Please pass this heart on to Ms. Martin for me.  💕

  62. 62.

    Jackie

    Reposted from earlier thread; this one is more appropriate:

    Republicans in states across the country are moving to block young people from voting as part of a concerted strategy advanced by a leading 2020 election denier, according to a report.

    New Hampshire Republicans introduced a bill that would have barred college students who pay out-of-state tuition from voting, while a Texas Republican introduced a bill that would ban polling places at colleges and universities. Republicans in Idaho, Virginia and Wisconsin have all pressed measures to keep students away from the polls, reported Rolling Stone.

    “Young people are the reason why Biden won in 2020 and Democrats up and down the ballot won in 2022 and 2023,” says Abhi Rahman, national communications director for the Democratic Legislative Campaign Committee.

    “If Gen Z continues to vote, we’re on the cusp of the most progressive era in our country’s history. Republicans know this as well, and that’s why they’re doing everything they can to stop young people from voting, including the fight for restrictions that we’re seeing play out in states like Wisconsin today.”

    This is a great incentive to GOTV for yoots! Thanks, Rethuglicans!

  63. 63.

    Another Scott

    @WaterGirl: Gov. Fuzzy Vest rejected a $3.6B battery plant:

    Virginia Rejects Ford Battery Plant Investment Over CATL’s CCP Ties

    The $3.6 billion Ford-CATL battery cell joint venture would have created about 2,500 jobs in one of the poorest parts of Virginia.

    [image]

    Last month, reports surfaced about Ford Motor Company’s plans to build a new battery plant in the US together with China’s EV battery powerhouse CATL.

    The states of Michigan and Virginia were listed as favorites to host the new facility, but it looks like the Old Dominion voluntarily dropped out of the race.

    Virginia Governor Glenn Youngkin, who is a potential Republican candidate for the office of US President in 2024, rejected the $3.6 billion investment because it involved a partnership with China’s Contemporary Amperex Technology Co. Ltd., better known as CATL.

    […]

    Culture-war stuff always trumps sensible policies with these monsters.

    Always.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  64. 64.

    TriassicSands

    @smith: “…Whitmer is amazing…

    Some time ago, a commenter here at BJ told me in no uncertain terms just how worthless Whitmer is. I had expressed an interest in her as a possible presidential candidate — though if she declared I would immediately question her sanity and doubt my interest in her. (Tongue in cheek.) What kind of crazy person would want to be president in the U.S. today?

    Well, there is Donald Trump, but you can’t get any crazier than that.

    And our current president, who must be sooooooooo old now that he’s completely senile and doesn’t know what he’s doing. (Source: NY Times, WaPo, and diners everywhere in rural America.)

    I will repeat for n³ time, I think Biden has done a surprisingly good job, but voter stupidity and the MSM are creating a rising tide against his re-election. Given that, it might have been a good idea for Biden to have been a “transitional president” (as he once implied he might be) and have laid the groundwork for others to step up to replace him. But that didn’t happen, and it would have been problematic if it had, because that would have made him a lame duck president with all that implies. Today, I don’t see how Democrat could replace him and hope to win — the American electorate isn’t getting any smarter, nor is it likely to any time soon. And idiots like RFK Jr. and Cornel West are running vanity programs with an uncertain effect on the 2024 presidential election.

    It remains to be seen, if, after a possible second Trump term, any Democrat will have a chance of winning in what could be a thoroughly rigged system. That is what the GOP is aiming for and, if the American people once again prove just how stupid they are, then only Republican incompetence may stop them. Needless to say, the SCOTUS will work tirelessly to ensure that outcome.

    This is exhausting.

  66. 66.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @TriassicSands:

    I will repeat for n³ time, I think Biden has done a surprisingly good job, but voter stupidity and the MSM are creating a rising tide against his re-election.

    That hasn’t shown up in actual recent election results

  67. 67.

    twbrandt

    @smith: Michigan’s governor (Gretchen Whitmer), attorney general (Dana Nessel), and Secretary of State (Jocelyn Benson) are all women, and all doing great jobs. One of our US senators, Debbie Stabenow, is also a woman, but is retiring. Her likely replacement (whose name I’m forgetting) is also a woman.

  70. 70.

    WaterGirl

    @TriassicSands: The media and the powers that be would be attacking and trying to destroy the candidacy of anyone we ran.

    The VP is the logical choice; we would get to see Hillary Clinton, 2.0.

    If we start choosing our Democratic presidential candidates based on who the media will “allow” without trying to destroy them, we will already have lost.

  71. 71.

    Another Scott

    @WaterGirl: Both and.  It was a way for him to get in the news for being Tough on Jyna and all the other stupid stuff.

    The link has his spokes drone talking about security and privacy, while no doubt having a Jyna-assembled iPhone in his pocket.

    Grr…,
    Scott.

  74. 74.

    RevRick

    @wjca: GOP economic doctrine has three points:

    1). Reduced taxes, especially for the wealthy, to constrain government;

    2). Reduced regulations on businesses (which motivated them to totally oppose the ACA, for instance, or block minimum wage increases, or railroad safety);

    3). Opposition to any form of downward distribution of income based on the belief that helping the poor encourages laziness.

  75. 75.

    Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)

    @WaterGirl:

    Can I nominate DeWine? His trustee appointees to the YSU board installed Republican Rep. Bill Johnson as President of the University. Students, faculty, and alumni are pissed

  77. 77.

    Martin

    @WaterGirl: Yeah, she was trying to get a covid test in norcal and I asked if it mattered – would we just be driving home in either case – because she was clearly sick. So we skipped that effort, packed up and hauled ass (to the extent that you can on thanksgiving weekend). She’s a real homebody, so it helped a lot to be home.

    Downside is that if we had camped up at a hotel in norcal I could have stuck my wife and son together and taken care of both of them. But who knows how long we would have been there.

  78. 78.

    japa21

    I would just like to point out that Whitmer was wise enough to go to the better of the major universities in Michigan.  Unfortunately it was many years after I went to State.

  79. 79.

    Martin

    I can say with some confidence that not a single zoomer has seen even a goddamn minute of the News Hour or read Politico, which is why 62 and 63 can both be accurate. The MSM has as much impact on that generation as Spanish language morning radio has on Iowa voters.

  80. 80.

    Geminid

    @twbrandt: You may be thinking of Rep. Elissa Slotkin. She announced for Senator Stabenow’s seat a few months ago. Rep. Slotkin was one of the 40 Democrats wh flipped Republican seats in 2018.

  82. 82.

    TriassicSands

    @Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):

    That depends on what results you are talking about. I don’t know, and neither does anyone else, how serious a threat Biden’s age is to his re-election. We’ll find that out on election day. I have spoken with many younger voters whose attitude is ridiculous, but they moan and groan about his age and him being senile, which means they have no idea what dementia is, and how they don’t want to vote for him. Will they? Who knows?

    As far as recent election results — Biden hasn’t been on the ballot. Initiatives and constitutional amendments don’t have anything to do with Biden. If abortion rights are enshrined in a state constitution, that gives people the (delusional) assurance that they no longer have to worry, so voting for a Republican, as they have always done, won’t be a problem. Reading comment sections in various publications, which are reputed to be “liberal,” reveals a lot of people who repeat that Biden is too old and they want someone else. It’s OK to want someone else as long as they can make a rational decision the day they vote. History says voters aren’t always rational. See two elections for George W. Bush and one for Donald Trump.

    Every time voters are asked questions about politics, office holders, and policies they prove to be overwhelmingly poorly informed. This has been going on for decades, but with the introduction of social media and rampant conspiracy theories the craziness has multiplied. I would be a liar if I said I don’t think Trump can win next year, or if by some chance his is eliminated, that a replacement Republican couldn’t beat Biden. The idea of another Trump administration to too grotesque to imagine, but as bad as Nikki Haley is, it would not shock me if she won were she to get the nomination. Others may have more confidence in the American electorate than I do, but I have been watching election results and engaging countless people in discussions about the “issues” for more than fifty years. I no longer have any illusions about the American electorate.

    Do poll numbers mean anything this far out? Well, they could express displeasure with the choice next year, but they certainly don’t predict the outcome now. My advice to anyone who has confidence in the American voter? Work as hard as you can for what you believe in, but don’t be surprised if you are disappointed. To some extent, BJ is an echo chamber, but other sites reflect a very different mind set than what is typical here. I’ve seen too many good to excellent Democrats beaten by essentially worthless Republicans. For example, Russ Feingold beaten twice by Ron Johnson, a prime candidate for dumbest and worst U.S. Senator. Tim Wirth years ago in Colorado. HRC by Trump (with a lot of help). And we can’t forget ‘W,” not just once in a fluke, but twice with no fluke the second time and an actual popular vote and EC win.

    My goal now is to live long enough to vote both for Biden and against Trump next year. There is no guarantee I will make it. I just missed the first election I have ever missed in 55 years of voting, because I was hospitalized. Fortunately, this election was all local. However, it was still a huge disappointment.

  83. 83.

    Denali5

    @TriassicSands:

    Hope you are home from the hospital now! I share your skepticism about the electorate. Biden should be getting so much credit for his role in the ceasefire and release of hostages. In such a complex war, all bets were off. He has exceeded my expectations,  and I hope that the election proves that he is the absolute best candidate.  But it may not happen.

  84. 84.

    CaseyL

    @TriassicSands: My Mom feels that her time is ending, though her health is not-bad (considering her age and chronic conditions).

    One thing she does have her mind set on is being around to vote in November 2024.

    Since I really don’t want to lose her, I heartily endorse that plan.

  85. 85.

    brantl

    @Jeffro: Their whole platform is that when there are enough tax cuts and minorities are oppressed enough, Reagan will suddenly rise up from the dead, and walk them all into the Promised Land. (While somehow consigning the rest of us to hell.)

  86. 86.

    Martin

    @TriassicSands: That depends on what results you are talking about. I don’t know, and neither does anyone else, how serious a threat Biden’s age is to his re-election. We’ll find that out on election day. I have spoken with many younger voters whose attitude is ridiculous, but they moan and groan about his age and him being senile, which means they have no idea what dementia is, and how they don’t want to vote for him. Will they? Who knows?

    They made the same complaints in 2020 and turned out for him in record numbers. I mean, Trump is 4 years younger. Every age argument applies to him as well, plus all of the fascism ones.

    So long as Biden is still breathing at the end of the day Nov 5, 2024 we’re good. We’ve got a great relief pitcher on the team if he kicks after that day.

  87. 87.

    TriassicSands

    @WaterGirl:

    I agree, but that doesn’t change anything about the electorate or the MSM’s coverage. Neither one is well-suited to maintaining democracy in the U.S. That doesn’t mean we’ll fail, but, to me, it does mean we have to take the threat seriously.

  88. 88.

    brantl

    @Another Scott: Nope re-elected means just like re-anything to be anythinged again. If Trump wins again, he is re-elected, just not consecutively. Grover Cleveland was re-elected non-consecutively.

  89. 89.

    TriassicSands

    @Martin:

    I hope you are right, but apparently you have more confidence in the wisdom (a word that should never be used to refer to the American electorate, in my opinion) of the voters than I do. Failure of Democratic voters to show up has doomed a lot of candidates in our history. Turnout in this country is abysmal, but those who don’t vote almost certainly couldn’t vote responsibly if the did choose to cast a ballot. Imagine if you lived in a country where shocking numbers of voters didn’t know who their president is, or their senators. We do. I’ve never said Biden can’t win. But neither would I say ‘we’re good” as if that somehow guaranteed victory. We were good in 2016. Only we weren’t. In 2004, after four years of Bush and disastrous wars, he won both the EC and the popular vote. You are entitled to believe “we’re good.” I won’t say that until the election is over and Biden is sworn in a second time. Much too much is at stake for me (and I think us) to be confident of victory. I prefer it if people think this is the election to end all elections, because it could be. I’m going to guess that if you spoke with as many typical voters as I do and have, you might not be so relaxed about the outcome.

    It is worth noting, that Biden might well have lost in 2020 if there hadn’t been third party (Libertarian) candidates in key states. The default for Libertarian voters is much more likely to be the GOP than the Democrats. In several states, the gap between Biden and Trump was smaller than the number of Libertarian votes. Who knows how many candidates will be on the ballot next year? Or what effect they will have.

  90. 90.

    TriassicSands

    @Denali5: I hope you are home from the hospital now.

    Thank you. I am after 25 days (26 counting the day before in my local ED). My situation is still very much up in the air. The idea is to “optimize” me for surgery in the not too distant future. However, Crohn’s has left me horribly malnourished and unfit for surgery. I am now on IV nutrition (TPN), which I will give myself at home. However, there is no guarantee I will be able to get it beyond December and that will mean I will never be optimized for surgery. That means…

    Only when Americans finally run into to just how bad our health care system is, do they come to appreciate a simple fact: The American health care system is killing people. Yes, it saves many, but the inadequacies of the system, the mindless rules that have nothing to do with patient well-being result in many needless deaths. There is an OP-ED in the Times today about how many people with Hepatitis C are dying because the cure is not available to them. Twelve weeks of medication and the overwhelming majority of patients are disease free. But most patients aren’t getting the treatment. The health care system over the past 23 years has repeatedly made unnecessary decisions that had nothing to do with money that have significantly harmed my health. After the CDC issued their idiotic “guidelines” for opioid prescribing for chronic pain (2017), people were killing themselves because they had been denied adequate pain medication. Last year, the CDC apologized for those guidelines because they never imagined that doctors and clinics would treat them as rules, not as a place to begin treatment. Apparently, the CDC was completely unfamiliar with American doctors and clinics. It turned out that the CDC’s guidelines led countless doctors and clinics across the country to treat every individual as if they were exactly the same. A nurse wrote an OP-ED in the Times detailed how many people she had been able to verify had committed suicide as a result of inadequate medication or being cut off altogether. I read the guidelines cover to cover and they had nothing at all to do with treating chronic pain. They were designed to eliminate overdoses and deaths. Guess what if you deny patients medication they can’t OD.

  91. 91.

    TriassicSands

    @Martin: I mean, Trump is 4 years younger. Every age argument applies to him as well, plus all of the fascism ones.

    They should apply equally, but they don’t. I’ve seen exactly one article in a newspaper about Trump’s irrational rhetoric as a possible result of his age. I can’t count how many articles I’ve read that point out that Biden is just too old and “no one” wants him to run next year.

    Biden is old. He sounds old and he looks old. But that doesn’t make him incompetent. Trump often sounds mentally ill and out of touch with reality, but he’s dynamic and forceful. Really? Unbelievable.

  92. 92.

    Another Scott

    @brantl:

    Disagree. I think there’s an important difference.

    From the Whitehouse.gov link above:

    He angered the railroads by ordering an investigation of western lands they held by Government grant. He forced them to return 81,000,000 acres. He also signed the Interstate Commerce Act, the first law attempting Federal regulation of the railroads.

    In December 1887 he called on Congress to reduce high protective tariffs. Told that he had given Republicans an effective issue for the campaign of 1888, he retorted, “What is the use of being elected or re-elected unless you stand for something?” But Cleveland was defeated in 1888; although he won a larger popular majority than the Republican candidate Benjamin Harrison, he received fewer electoral votes.

    Elected again in 1892, Cleveland faced an acute depression. He dealt directly with the Treasury crisis rather than with business failures, farm mortgage foreclosures, and unemployment. He obtained repeal of the mildly inflationary Sherman Silver Purchase Act and, with the aid of Wall Street, maintained the Treasury’s gold reserve.

    (Emphasis added.)

    I think that’s the proper expression. But, YMMV.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  93. 93.

    Matt McIrvin

    @TriassicSands:

    I will repeat for n³ time, I think Biden has done a surprisingly good job, but voter stupidity and the MSM are creating a rising tide against his re-election. Given that, it might have been a good idea for Biden to have been a “transitional president” (as he once implied he might be) and have laid the groundwork for others to step up to replace him.

    But that would have been Kamala Harris, and the main reason a lot of people don’t like Biden is really that they’re scared shitless of a Black woman becoming President. So I don’t think this would have helped.

  94. 94.

    Bupalos

    @TriassicSands: the downsides to the status of “lame duck” really applies more to the reality that the OTHER PARTY has the electoral mandate and is about to take over.

    The best path for dems would have been biden announcing intent to retire after the IRA became law and the house flipped. It wouldn’t have been an easy process getting to Whitmer or whoever*, but we’d be in a better place.

    *should absolutely be whitmer, she’s a total natural like Obama

  95. 95.

    wjca

    @TriassicSands:  Ron Johnson, a prime candidate for dumbest and worst U.S. Senator

    Once upon a time.  But since Tuberville arrived, Johnson isn’t really in the running any more.

  96. 96.

    Don K

    I am so damned proud of our MIDems!! Since taking control of the legislature, they’ve been legislating as if this two years is their only chance for another 40 years. Use control to get shit done – that’s the way to do it! Of course, it helps that there’s no filibuster in the Michigan Senate…

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