Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Give the craziest people you know everything they want and hope they don’t ask for more? Great plan.

“But what about the lurkers?”

Everybody saw this coming.

There are a lot more evil idiots than evil geniuses.

Seems like a complicated subject, have you tried yelling at it?

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

Sadly, there is no cure for stupid.

The words do not have to be perfect.

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

The new republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

… gradually, and then suddenly.

Republicans can’t even be trusted with their own money.

If senate republicans had any shame, they’d die of it.

… riddled with inexplicable and elementary errors of law and fact

When you’re in more danger from the IDF than from Russian shelling, that’s really bad.

The willow is too close to the house.

Balloon Juice, where there is always someone who will say you’re doing it wrong.

Someone should tell Republicans that violence is the last refuge of the incompetent, or possibly the first.

Elections aren’t won by handwringing, cowering, and/or bashing your own candidates.

Since when do we limit our critiques to things we could do better ourselves?

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

The media handbook says “controversial” is the most negative description that can be used for a Republican.

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Tuesday Morning Open Thread: Strengthening the American Economy

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SRSLY:


I used to have some respect for Jonathan Swann, but as my Irish granny used to say, Rich brute’s money spends just like the honest kind…

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204Comments

  2. 2.

    OzarkHillbilly

    Pete fixed the planes

    The wondrous results of a working govt. Hoocudanode?

    eta: The alternative:

    Ron DeSantis’s chief elections fraud official collapsed after abruptly leaving a “contentious” meeting in the Florida governor’s office, then lay dead or dying for almost half an hour in the hallway outside until he was found, an investigation published on Monday has revealed.

    Florida wins again.

  3. 3.

    Kay

    Amy Chozick went on to “cover” Hillary Clinton in 2016 – she was rewarded for that low quality work with a lucrative book deal – autobiographical, of course – and Chozick now writes about the Kardashians and other celebrities.

    They should all write about the Kardashians. We’d all be better off. No one would be worse off if the whole political media category disappeared and just became celebrity reporting.

  4. 4.

    Kay

    I remain perplexed about how Americans keep telling pollsters they are barely keeping body and soul together while breaking spending records in every consumer category, including airline tickets.

    I know you’re going to say “housing’ or “inflation on food” but the spending exists. The money is coming from somewhere.

  6. 6.

    Salty Sam

    @Kay:   if the whole political media category disappeared and just became celebrity reporting.

    Ya mean, it’s not already?!?

  7. 7.

    p.a.

    For the FTNYFT competence is disqualifying, for politics and for employment at the FTNYFT.

     

    Off-topic health & wellness tip: when you’re on your fast day, don’t light a gingerbread scented candle.🤬

  8. 8.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: ​ I think it already is celebrity reporting. Who’s hot, who’s not, how popular they are or aren’t. their misbehaving dogs, misbehaving children, etc etc.

  9. 9.

    Another Scott

    @Kay: There was a story recently about a survey that said that the economy was good in their area but bad nationally.  The obvious explanation is that the national reporting Narrative of Doom is affecting the answer.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  10. 10.

    Kay

    @Salty Sam:

    Trump is perfect for them. It’s why they’re working hard to bring him back.

    It wouldn’t matter that much- not enough normies read the NYTimes to impact a national election- except all the outlets follow them.

  12. 12.

    There go two miscreants

    Glad to see the DOT tooting their own horn, but whoever chose that picture to accompany the tweet should be taken to the woodshed. As with a bad headline, many folks will just remember the “Cancelled…..Cancelled…” in that photo.

  15. 15.

    Kay

    @Baud:

    It brings out the frugal nag in me – I feel like saying “stop spending so much on Cyber Monday and maybe you won’t ‘feel’ broke”

    Thru this whole thing they have never behaved like people who don’t have any money. Had they actually done that  demand would collapse and we’d see higher unemployment.  I’ve been waiting for this to show up, real world, for almost 4 years. It remains wholly within polling.

  16. 16.

    hrprogressive

    @Kay: ​
     

    I can’t speak for everyone, but there is definitely a segment of the economy that “isn’t working for people”, at least not “completely”

    I bought a house in 2016 for under $150k. The cheapest reasonable single family home I could now buy in my area – something that could likely be “move-in ready”, IE, not a “flipper special”, is approximately $280k.

    Affordable rent in this area used to be under $1000. Now, those same units are more like $1150-1350.

    I am estranged from my spouse, but we still live together because the separation was supposed to occur in 2020, and well, we put it off because of the pandemic.

    We both have “white collar jobs” and make the most money we’ve ever made in our lives, and things like “new housing” is…not necessarily “out of reach” but either or both of us would go from being extremely comfortable to…maybe not “struggling”, but we wouldn’t be doing great if we had to try and afford the housing that’s out there now that isn’t the one we still own together.

    It absolutely blows feeling trapped, which is how I feel right now.

    Both of us have disposable income to spend on things like consumer goods, and even groceries isn’t that big a deal.

    But in terms of “moving on up” – you know, a hallmark of the American Dream – that’s basically nonexistent right now.

    And between ridiculous housing prices, and stagnant wages (we both are likely underpaid for what we do) – what are we gonna do?

    I apologize if this sounds like a lot of “first world problems”, we’re definitely a lot luckier and better off than lots of our fellow citizens, and I am not blind to that privilege/luck.

    But the idea that “The economy is great but nobody will say it because a Democrat is President” is just not accurate, at least not completely.

    I’m just an N=1 data point though.

    Have a great one.

  17. 17.

    catclub

    @Kay: They should all write about the Kardashians. We’d all be better off.

     

    Until  one of the Kardashians decides to run fro President.

  19. 19.

    Tony Jay

    The News Media don’t want a President (or a Prime Minister, etc). That’s politics. That’s hard and boring and not something ordinary people with their own lives to struggle through want to be thinking about, bothered with or paying for.

    So the News Media doesn’t report on Presidents (or Prime Ministers). It reports on lead singers. Front men. The more troubled and chaotic the better. No one wants to know who they ‘really are’ behind the swagger and the sneering. Their fans just want the manufactured personae to fantasise about and fans of other bands want to twist that personae into something they can be justifiably turned off by. In the end none of it matters, because it’s all just disposable ephemera churned out by the same husband and wife team of behind the scenes writers anyway.

    That’s how shallow they are. Tiger Beat on the Potomac nails them to a tee.

  20. 20.

    catclub

    @hrprogressive: And between ridiculous housing prices, and stagnant wages (we both are likely underpaid for what we do) – what are we gonna do?

     

    Find different jobs? Get a raise?

  23. 23.

    catclub

    From a guy who writes about economic and investing matters: 

    Most Americans are better off financially now than before the pandemic: Jobs, paychecks, spending, wealth, and financial security have made big gains, which offset the burden of higher inflation. That’s true for most families. The good news stretches far beyond the rich. (Stay at Home Macro)

    Note that it did not say ALL families.

  26. 26.

    Lapassionara

    @Kay: Republicans are telling reporters that they can’t keep body and soul together, not all Americans. If you go over to Kevin Drum’s blog, he hauls out the studies that show the complaining is coming from the right, and that Dems tend to feel like the economy is doing ok. So what does the media report?

    I still see high meat prices at the grocery store, and I wish someone would investigate the cause of that phenomenon. OTOH, gas was less than $3.00 a gallon everywhere we drove on our Thanksgiving trek.

  27. 27.

    Kay

    @hrprogressive:

    Perhaps this is too personal a question – if so, ignore it pls- but wouldn’t your situation (as far as moving up) be different regardless because you will have housing on one income rather than two?

    There were other challenges at other times in terms of housing. Not to sound like your granny, but my first mortgage interest rate was 14 and the news was filled with doom on how people like me would die poor and never get ahead and over decades we DID get ahead.

    I agree housing is a problem though. I just think an expectation that one will “get ahead” on a certain timeline are both unrealistic and were never true. It really wasn’t that great in 1989! A lot sucked!

  28. 28.

    Betty Cracker

    @hrprogressive: I think you’re right to note that a negative outlook on the economy isn’t just about vibes or negative media coverage. Multiple things can be true at once, e.g., that the economy is healthy overall — more jobs, rising wages, etc., and that lots of people are feeling the pinch, especially around housing costs.

    Our house has more than doubled in value since we bought it five years ago. I don’t want to leave, but if I did, I’d be in the same boat as you. There are fewer options, and that contributes to how people feel about the economy all by itself. My sympathies that you’re caught up in that.

  29. 29.

    Kay

    @Lapassionara:

    If the higher food prices are manipulation or gouging, absolutely, I’m concerned. BUT I have to say I think food was too cheap and did not reflect the actual costs, especially if we (as liberals) are expecting higher labor costs with higher wages. I know Biden can’t say this but I’m not running so I can – a 2 liter bottle of pop shouldn’t be 2 dollars. It should cost more than that.

  31. 31.

    Dagaetch

    My theory about the economic unhappiness isn’t that people aren’t doing well, it’s that they aren’t doing better than they were pre-pandemic. See, for a long time, people weren’t getting meaningful raises, but prices were stagnant as well, so we all just kind of shrugged and dreamed of the day when we’d get that new job with the salary boost, or the big raise, and we’d finally be able to get ahead. Then came the ‘great resignation’, and people got those raises and new jobs. Everyone went “alright, I’m finally going to level up!” Except because of inflation, and supply chain shocks, and price gouging, it turned out that even with all the new money they were making, they weren’t doing nearly as better as they thought they should be! So now you have people throwing up their hands in frustration that the system is rigged against them (it is), they can’t get ahead, they won’t get ahead, and why should they believe it’s even possible?

    This explains the disconnect between “I’m worried about the economy/I’m spending plenty”, to my mind. People are legitimately worried that they can’t make enough money and things are going to get worse; but they also don’t believe it’s possible for their situation to dramatically improve, and so why bother trying, let’s just enjoy what we can of life right now by spending.

  32. 32.

    JML

    @hrprogressive: I feel for your situation. But wouldn’t it be fair to say that you’re trapped less by the economy than by the relationship collapse you’ve experienced? It’s going to be much harder to “move on up” singly than it was going to be together. A house is much more affordable as a two-income family than as a single. You built your life one way, and now are faced with having to re-set that life because of the pending end of the relationship. That’s not really economic.

    And I’m sorry, it doesn’t sound like “first-world problems”, it sounds like you’re well enough off, but feel entitled to be moving up to rich. And that’s never been guaranteed in any economy.

    There are challenges where wage-stagnation is hitting middle-class and upper-middle class families/people, including white-collar jobs. It’s especially happening in the public sector. But some of that is attached to expectations and entitlement as well.

  33. 33.

    Scout211

    Long, but interesting read this morning on ABC News:

    Pence told Jan. 6 special counsel harrowing details about 2020 aftermath, warnings to Trump: Sources

    There are parts of the article that seem very CYA for Pence himself but some of the information is new, with more details of Trump’s plot to overturn the election.

    This snippet was a new take on why Pence decided to do the right thing:

    Pence insisted that in America, under the Constitution establishing three co-equal branches of government, election disputes are resolved by courts and elected lawmakers, sources said.

    But, the sources said, with the pressure on Pence mounting, he concluded on Christmas Eve — just for a moment — that he would follow Trump’s suggestion and let someone else preside over the proceedings on Jan. 6, writing in his notes that doing otherwise would be “too hurtful to my friend.”

    “Not feeling like I should attend electoral count,” Pence wrote in his notes in late December. “Too many questions, too many doubts, too hurtful to my friend. Therefore I’m not going to participate in certification of election.”

    Then, sitting across the table from his son, a Marine, while on vacation in Colorado, his son said to him, “Dad, you took the same oath I took” — it was “an oath to support and defend the Constitution,” Pence recalled to Smith’s investigators, sources said.

    That’s when Pence decided he would be at the Capitol on Jan. 6 after all, according to the sources.

  34. 34.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @There go two miscreants: Really good point. Reminds me of Senator Franken making fun of his party after the historic passage of the ACA. From a review of his book at:
    https://bringmethenews.com/minnesota-news/5-fun-random-takeaways-al-frankens-new-book

    While discussing the Affordable Care Act, Franken uses this anecdote as an example of how bad he thinks Democrats can be with messaging. There was a phone number the White House set up where people could call and get help finding the right insurance plan, which Franken says was a “great idea.”

    “What was the number? 1-800-GET-CARE? 1-800-ACA-HELP? 1-800-NOT-SICK?

    No. It was 1-800-318-2596. What does that spell? Nothing.”

    That missed opportunity “really cheesed me off,” he writes.

     

    Also, too: https://youtu.be/PhML1WAGkCs?si=Falx44exSjGNvu1g

  35. 35.

    Kay

    @Betty Cracker:

    There’s also a split that has developed even among younger people between those younger people who got the lowest mortgage interest rates and those who are looking for a mortgage right now. I don’t know- I tend to think it’s closer to a wash because those who got the lowest interest rates also bought at peak prices and peak sellers market. I didn’t even question 12,13,14% interest at the time I was buying my first- it just seemed like the way the world worked, but then I wasn’t comparing to 3%.

  36. 36.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: At the local Wallyworld a 12 pack of Fresca costs $8 while a 24 pack of Diet Pepsi costs $10. Half the time we can’t even get the Fresca because they are out of it.

    Something screwy there, could not begin to guess who’s responsible.

  38. 38.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    Regarding TSA processing people thru airports, I flew back to Central Misery (okay, KC, then drove here) on Sunday for work.  Took a 5am flight out of Denver.  Get off the light rail, get up into the terminal to see the South security gate backed completely up to the door then snaking down around the baggage claim.

    I’ve seen that plenty.  Used to be you took a butt-crack of dawn flight to avoid crowds, now it’s the opposite, you want to avoid crowds, fly out around noon or early afternoon.

    But I walked right past it and up to the North security gate where TSA Pre is.  I was thru security in 5 minutes.

    TSA Pre is the best $100 you’ll ever spend.  Even if you only fly once a year.

  40. 40.

    Jeffro

    @OzarkHillbilly:I think it already is celebrity reporting. Who’s hot, who’s not, how popular they are or aren’t. their misbehaving dogs, misbehaving children, etc etc.

    Yup.  Anything for the clicks.

    The NYT had up a piece a day or two ago titled, “Let’s talk about Biden, trump…and Taylor Swift”.  Give me an effin’ break.

  41. 41.

    Geminid

    It was good to see the comment by Joe Biden’s Deputy Campaign Manager, Quentin Fulks. Most of Fulks’ work is behind the scenes, but he is a good communicator.

    At age 34, Quentin Fulks already has served as deputy campaign manager for J.B. Pritzger’s 2018 Governor campaign, and last year he was Campaign Manager for Raphael Warnock’s Senate reelection. Fulks was in charge of a $100 million budget in the last job.

    Fulks grew up in Ellaville, Georgia, a town of less than 2,000. Ellaville is 20 miles from Plains, and Fulks says Jimmy Carter was an inspiration. Kim Fuller, one of Fulks’ high school teachers, is Jimmy Carter’s niece. Fuller told an AP reporter researching Fulks:

        I always told [students] that Uncle Jimmy was just like them at one point.

    After graduating from Georgia Southwestern University, Fulks studied politics as a grad student at American University where Emily’s List head Ana Caprara hired him. They both worked for Hilary Clinton in 2016, and when Ms.Caprara was tapped to run J. B. Pritzger’s 2018 campaign she brought Fulks on board.

    During Gov. Pritzger’s 1st campaign and administration, Quentin Fulks would have gotten to know WaterGirl’s new Congresswoman, Rep. Nikki Budzinski. She was a senior campaign advisor and helped push Gov. Pritzger’s programs through the legislature. I think that like Rep. Budzinski, Fulks will end up in public office before too long.

  42. 42.

    RevRick

    @Kay: There’s a huge disconnect between what people say about their own personal financial circumstances and what they believe is true about the national economy. About two-thirds say they’re doing great.

  44. 44.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Half the time we can’t even get the Fresca because they are out of it.

    The Great Fresca Shortage is one thing I’ll remember from the Plague Years.  I woulda thought by now periodic Fresca outages would be a thing of the past but nope, it’s as you say.

  45. 45.

    Dagaetch

    @Kay: its not a wash, exactly, but it definitely complicates things. I’m a younger (still, dammit…) who bought and has a 2.75% mortgage; and my home has increased in value by 50% in 5 years. If I sold, I’d have a huge down payment…but real estate in my area is so ridiculously high that in combination with the interest rates, I basically wouldn’t be able to get anything meaningfully different from where I live now without at least doubling my monthly mortgage, even with that huge ​down payment. So if I didn’t want to stay where I am, I could either sell and move in with my brother (which is tempting, my niece is adorable); or wait until I have a partner so we can split the payment somewhere else. Fortunately I’m very happy where I am, so staying is just fine. But I’m also not freeing up a ‘starter home’ for someone else.​

  47. 47.

    Kay

    @Scout211:

    “Not feeling like I should attend electoral count,” Pence wrote in his notes in late December. “Too many questions, too many doubts, too hurtful to my friend. Therefore I’m not going to participate in certification of election.”

    These people are just ridiculous. It’s all ego. i have an idea- stop agonizing and follow the statute. He reminds me of Comey. “Ohhhh this is HISTORICAL, what to DO, what to do!”

    Just follow the rules. Get yourself out of it and follow the rules and norms. They’re not adults in some essential way. Too hurtful to his friend? Is this 7th grade? Tens of millions of Americans voted for Joe Biden and they won. What about them?

  48. 48.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Baud:

    I’ve had good luck at airports with Global Entry, which includes Pre.

    I originally got it so as to ease my way back into the US when flying abroad.  I kid you not, even back in my days as an intelligence officer flying on an official US passport, I’d hit the US and Every. Damned. Time., I’d get pulled aside, hassled, often pulled into a separate office, and grilled before they’d let me back in.

    Long after those days, it would still happen 3/4s of the time, the last time in 2018.  Everybody says it’s because I exude this shifty vibe or something. All I know is that I’ve been treated like an international, drug-smuggling terrorist when it comes to getting into my own country.  Hell, when I usta fly to China, it was a breeze getting in.

    So in 2019 I went thru the Global Entry/Pre routine and have never had an issue since.  Plus it’s payed off as I describe in terms of lines, taking shit off to get thru security, etc.

  52. 52.

    Scout211

    @comrade scotts agenda of rage: TSA Pre is the best $100 you’ll ever spend.  Even if you only fly once a year.

    Shhhhhh! TSA Pre-Check is the best thing ever for airline travel, but SHHHH! 😉

    This year they announced that even those with TSA-Pre Check would likely be seeing longer lines over the holiday travel period.  We sometimes breeze through TSA with Pre-Check but in super busy airports (like SeaTac) the Pre-Check lines are getting much longer.  It’s not a secret anymore.

  53. 53.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: ​Tens of millions of Americans voted for Joe Biden and they won. What about them?

    Fuck ’em, they aren’t giving him any money.

  56. 56.

    Kay

    @Dagaetch:

    It’s hard to game out. I thought my daughter paid too much for her house but she wanted to jump on the low rates and she had other priorities than just cost – she wanted a specific neighborhood. Part of it was NY (where she lives) I just think those housing prices are ridiculous. I can’t help it. I balk.

    I deal with property a lot in my work and even so (with hindsight) I probably gave her bad advice (which she ignored) which was to wait until prices came down.

  57. 57.

    satby

    @hrprogressive: @Betty Cracker: Divorce is almost always catastrophic to personal finances, especially to women with children. Very few people have the same standard of living after, for a few years at least. I never got all the way back to it.

    But housing has gone nuts. As a senior, I was just thinking about what I’ll do in 10 years or so when I really should live closer to one of my kids, preferably the ones in Chicago so I can maintain some independence with good public transportation. And rents for 1 bedroom apartments in ok neighborhoods would take most of my income. My mom’s parents always lived with us when I was young, now I know why. Maybe it’s our expectations that also need adjusting along with housing costs.

  58. 58.

    Jeffro

    After trump’s “I’m gonna take another run at repealing my nemesis’ signature project Obamacare” comments a day or two ago, there was like this interesting coordinated wave of RW-adjacent nonsense trying to downplay it, or make it about Biden as opposed to trump.

    Biden highlight’s trump’s renewed interest in repealing Obamacare

    trump should stop trying to repeal Obamacare (courtesy of RW hack Ramesh Ponnuru, my new favorite RW hack of hacks…try harder, Hugh Hewitt!)

    but this one truly took the cake

    Biden Campaign Aims to Weaponize trump’s Threat to Obamacare

    See, it’s not about trump still seething over Obama’s achievement, or even the success of Obamacare, or the GOP (save for trump) basically giving up on repealing it…it’s about that evil Biden & Co, “weaponizing” trump’s own words, those bastards!

    Very few events bring aides on President Biden’s re-election campaign more joy than when former President Donald J. Trump threatens to repeal popular Democratic policies.
    So when Mr. Trump, the Republican presidential front-runner, wrote on social media over the holiday weekend that he was “seriously looking at alternatives” to the 13-year-old Affordable Care Act, and that his fellow Republicans should “never give up” seeking its repeal, Mr. Biden’s campaign was happy to cede its programming decisions to Mr. Trump.
    The president’s campaign altered its previous plans and instead will spend much of this week amplifying Mr. Trump’s threat, which was less a substantive policy proposal he had considered thoughtfully than it was a reaction to an editorial he had read in The Wall Street Journal.

    oh, okay NYT…since it wasn’t a “substantive policy proposal [trump] had considered thoughtfully”, we (and certainly Biden/Harris 2024) should just let it slide.  Riiiiiiiiiiiight…

    Still, Mr. Biden’s aides intend to once again push to make Mr. Trump the news. That strategy has become a key cog for the campaign, as Mr. Biden struggles with low approval ratings and increasingly focuses on foreign policy rather than his re-election bid.

    Alternatively, if President Biden was campaigning and letting foreign policy slide, well, we know how they’d report that too, eh?

    Dobbs (and trump’s role in making that happen) is going to make things tough for him and the whole GOP ticket next November.  Having another go at repealing Obamacare, which is now benefitting 40 of our 50 states and covers Americans’ pre-existing conditions, would surely be another bright, shiny nail in a very large, orange coffin.

  59. 59.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    I’ve been waiting for this to show up, real world, for almost 4 years.

    Nitpick: Biden’s been President for 2 years, 10 months, and not quite 8 days.

  62. 62.

    Kay

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Republicans can’t lose because it’s too hurtful. It reminds me of media after Biden won and Republicans wouldn’t admit it. “They just need TIME to PROCESS”. Ridiculous. I feel Biden was cheated out of the ordinary winners treatment because we all had to coddle pouting Republicans. If we didn’t they might shoot us.

  63. 63.

    Jeffro

    @Scout211: his son, a Marine, while on vacation in Colorado, his son said to him, “Dad, you took the same oath I took” — it was “an oath to support and defend the Constitution,” Pence recalled to Smith’s investigators, sources said.

    Oh good.  I was really hoping history would not give Dan Quayle all the credit.

    @Baud: So Pence’s son and Dan Quayle are what prevented democratic Armageddon?

    Ok, fair point.  Half credit for Mr. Potatoe.

  64. 64.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: I think it’s that they can easily remember what things cost before Covid, and it pisses them off that things cost a lot more now even though they can afford to buy them. They want the raises they got since Covid with pre-Covid prices. That and much higher rent. This is probably an unpopular belief here, but I think the eviction moratorium probably contributed to the increase in rents, because I bet landlords increased rents on people who were paying to offset the people who weren’t paying that they couldn’t evict. Once they raised those rents, they weren’t going to lower them. I understand why the eviction moratorium was necessary, but it probably helped drive up rents in the long term.

  65. 65.

    Steeplejack

    @Kay:

    Too hurtful to his friend? Is this 7th grade?

    Inorite. And the absolute cluelessness of Pence thinking he had a friend in Trump, who regularly mocked and belittled him even before saying it would be okay if he was hanged. No wonder his nickname in Congress was Mike Dense.

  66. 66.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    @Jeffro: If you wait for Trump to propose a substantive health care plan that he’s seriously considered, you will wait forever. I’d say a substantive plan of any sort, except those plans to impose far right governance seem pretty substantive.

  67. 67.

    Kay

    @Jeffro:

    I see the Biden social media ads against Nikki Haley and they’re quite good. She’s running around saying she’ll cut Social Security. I guess she doesn’t yet realize that the GOP electorate are absolutely full of shit on fiscal responsibility and will never get behind cutting something that all use. Even Trump, stupid as he is, figured that out.

  68. 68.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Scout211: Meh. Maybe the kitchen table chat with His Son the Marine happened, but I doubt it.

    Pence was desperate to find a legal scholar who could set out a path for him to take that avoided certifying the election results. He searched far and wide among “the best people” (all conservatives, natch), but even the scummiest of the scum, Barr, wouldn’t do it. Not out of a sense of duty. Ha! No, by then the monied interested were done with Trump. Pence even went deep into the retirees list. This ended up acquainting us with Judge Luttig, who himself claims that a kitchen table conversation with his wife convinced him to tell Pence that he had to certify the vote.

    These people spend a lot of time chatting with each other over the kitchen table. Since the smart money always bets on the most cynical reality, I don’t believe any of them with regards to motive. The monied class was simply done with Trump.

    Unfortunately, Trump wasn’t done with them…or us.

  69. 69.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Baud:

    These people need to learn how to integrate functions.

    You really think reporters need to learn calculus? ;-)

  70. 70.

    Baud

    @Soprano2:

    Too many libs have a belief that good policy means the policy has no trade-offs.

    Inflation would not have been high if Biden has let the economy collapse.  But many voters won’t give Dems credit for preventing dystopia. It’s particular ironic when those voters are libs, because our MO is supposed to be big picture and long term thinking.

  72. 72.

    Kay

    @Soprano2:

    I am sympathetic to higher rent. There’s nothing people can do about that. But a “bad economy” is a set of things, and one of those things is a drop in demand. We haven’t seen that.

  75. 75.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Lapassionara:

    I still see high meat prices at the grocery store, and I wish someone would investigate the cause of that phenomenon.

    Beef, at least, should cost more than it has.  As stupid as it sounds, cow farts are a nontrivial contributor to global warming due to their methane content.  On top of whatever’s making it more expensive already, it should be taxed to disincentivize its consumption.

  76. 76.

    Jeffro

    @Baud: it was a “Reid Epstein” – never heard of him before (but then I don’t look at bylines very often.  I should, though!)

    10 grafs down, the real story finally rears its head:

    Mr. Trump’s social media post surprised even his own aides, who have not developed a plan to alter the country’s health care law, according to a person close to him.

    So, just popping off as usual, that rascally trump!  But hey, look at how Biden & Co are “weaponizing” it.  Unreal.

  77. 77.

    Soprano2

    @Lapassionara: So what does the media report?

    Like they normally do, they report what white people are telling them. I think that’s one reason it skews Republican, because they still believe that the “average” person is a white man, so that’s whose words they give the most weight to. They’re doing what they’ve always done.

  78. 78.

    Baud

    @Jeffro:

    Well, I guess inviting a Republican shill to opine is slightly better than the editorial board expressing something so stupid itself.

  80. 80.

    NotMax

    Dumbfounded that (1) Fresca still exists and (2) people voluntarily drink it.

    (Only time I peruse the soda aisle is when experiencing tummy troubles. For ginger ale.)

  81. 81.

    Soprano2

    @Kay: My first car loan in 1983 was 16.5%; that was on a one year old used car that I bought from the Toyota dealership and financed through a bank. One reason my husband sold his printshops in the early ’80s was because he couldn’t afford to borrow money to expand, because the interest rate was 20%. People who complain about inflation now have a point, but it’s not nearly as bad as it could be.

    ETA – I think part of my view of these things is colored by the fact that I was NEVER able to live by myself – I always had to have roommates in order to have a decent lifestyle where I could afford food and a car payment. I don’t know anything about this economy where everyone expects to be able to live on their own in the best part of town in a nice apartment and still have plenty of money left over for everything else, because I never had that life. I didn’t know anyone who did. That’s in a place where the cost of housing relative to other expenses was reasonable.

  82. 82.

    Suzanne

    @Kay: Historically, the cost of the median house relative to the median household income has been roughly 4:1. Right now, it’s somewhere between 6-7:1. So a cheaper house with a higher interest rate is a better scenario, because one can refi. (“Marry the price, date the rate”, as realtors used to say.)

    We seriously under-built housing for over a decade starting around 2008, and that leaves us in a weaker position now.

  83. 83.

    Betty Cracker

    @Scout211: OMFG, Pence thought doing his fucking job would be too hurtful to the friend who subsequently sent a lynch mob after him? Republican primary voters got one thing right — they bounced that dumb sap!

  85. 85.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Kay:

    There’s also a split that has developed even among younger people between those younger people who got the lowest mortgage interest rates and those who are looking for a mortgage right now. I don’t know- I tend to think it’s closer to a wash because those who got the lowest interest rates also bought at peak prices and peak sellers market.

    Around here, at least, housing prices were pretty stable right up through 2019, and interest rates were quite low then.  (Sure, prices on that $350K house one year might be $370K the next, but BFD.) There wasn’t much activity in 2020 due to the pandemic, but housing prices locally went crazy in 2021, and have kept on escalating.  So those who bought pre-pandemic got the best of both worlds.

  86. 86.

    Scout211

    Another interesting read this morning.  Well, no, it wasn’t really that interesting.  But at the top of Memeorandum is an article from   The Federalist all about how we should feel sorry for John Eastman, the poor sad Constitutional Scholar. 

    He is a victim, people. Politicians lie! They distort his brilliant legal advice. They are defaming him! He needs money, people! He’s spent over $3M and only received about $1M in donations.  Sad.  He is being harassed and had to hire security.  He wore out a set of tires!

    As you may have already guessed, The Federalist believes that “many” constitutional scholars agree with Eastman’s brilliant legal advice to Trump in 2020.

  88. 88.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Steeplejack: I got a SodaStream as a gift some years back and I wasn’t fond of most of the flavored soda syrups the company offered, but the one I did like was, oddly, their imitation Fresca (which was pink). Though I’m not a big Fresca fan. My sister-in-law loves the stuff.

  90. 90.

    Geminid

    @lowtechcyclist: I think it’s cow belches that produce methane. Researchers are trying different additives to cattle fodder that might reduce the methane. Seaweed seems to help.

  92. 92.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Baud:

    Inflation would not have been high if Biden has let the economy collapse.  But many voters won’t give Dems credit for preventing dystopia.

    The COVID-era stimulus started during Trump’s term, with Democratic help. If Democrats had been pure gangsters bent on winning elections they’d have let the economy crash hard during the COVID shutdowns, and people wouldn’t be so nostalgic for the Trump administration now. But we’re big suckers who actually care about people.

  93. 93.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Kay: we all had to coddle pouting Republicans.

    Yep, it’s beyond ridiculous. The media is ever so concerned with the feelings of salt of the earth white male midwesterners (hence all the Repubs in diners pieces) but when MAGAs say, “Fuck your feelings” it’s just another day ending in Y.

  94. 94.

    Ella in New Mexico

    “@maggieNYT and @jonathanvswan have signed a deal for the definitive book about Donald Trump’s final act in public life — whatever that final act is.”

    This is “news”? What the fuck does it even mean? They’re going to hang around on Donald-death watch for the next 10-20 years?

  95. 95.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2:

    This is probably an unpopular belief here, but I think the eviction moratorium probably contributed to the increase in rents, because I bet landlords increased rents on people who were paying to offset the people who weren’t paying that they couldn’t evict. Once they raised those rents, they weren’t going to lower them. I understand why the eviction moratorium was necessary, but it probably helped drive up rents in the long term. 

    You’re not wrong.
    There were definitely some renters who took advantage of the eviction moratorium who didn’t pay their rent even though they could, and figured it made more financial sense to keep their money and then figure out a new place to live after the moratorium was over. Probably not a lot of these people, but enough. And it only takes a few turds in a punch bowl to spoil nice things for everyone.

  96. 96.

    Spanky

    @NotMax:

    (Only time I peruse the soda aisle is when experiencing tummy troubles. For ginger ale.)

    Mosey down the bar mixer aisle and get some ginger beer. Much better for the guts.

  100. 100.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Steeplejack: ​ That $8 for a 12 pack hurts my head. I wish I could talk my wife out of it. You being the 2nd far flung person confirming it makes me think it is the producers keeping the supply down while demand is high so they can charge more.

  102. 102.

    Chris T.

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    Ron DeSantis’s chief elections fraud official collapsed after abruptly leaving a “contentious” meeting in the Florida governor’s office, then lay dead or dying for almost half an hour in the hallway outside until he was found, an investigation published on Monday has revealed.

    Calling Betty Cracker! Real Life exceeds plausibility factor again in Florida!

    Seriously, it would be ironic if it weren’t such a perfect microcosm. Florida “elections fraud” official dies and nobody notices.

  105. 105.

    Betty Cracker

    @Chris T.: Right? I saw that yesterday. The DeSantis people are being so weird and secretive about the incident that now some folks are wondering if there was foul play. Probably not — just bad staffing from the amateurs running the state, as usual.

  107. 107.

    evodevo

    @Chris T.: ​
      I’d be interested in what the “contentious” meeting was about? Too much fraud? Not enough fraud? What? and might this have been divine intervention? Just askin’

  108. 108.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @NotMax: Not me, the lines outside all the gun shops around here were a real put off for me. Too many gun nuts in an enclosed location is a recipe for massacre.

  109. 109.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: You reminded me to look at our stats for miles of sewer built, because that’s a way to see what development is like. Between 2011 and 2017 there was about 10 miles of new sewer built; between 2018 and 2023 there was 20 miles built. You can see it take off in 2018, then stop in 2021 & 2022, then take off in 2023 again. I’d say that between 2008 and 2017 no new subdivisions were even developed – most of the development was commercial. It’s actually pretty striking when you look at it, in a normal year we should add 5-7 miles but for several years we added zero.

  111. 111.

    Baud

    Speaking of housing, has there been any analysis of the effect of Trump’s tax cut on housing? Specifically, the cutting back of the home interest deduction to hurt blue states.

  113. 113.

    Ken

    @Kay: Though I agree with your sentiment, soda pop is not a great example, as those bottling plants are highly automated and labor costs (per unit) are not large. For that matter, the costs of the ingredients are not huge either.

    Fun (?) fact — the production of ammonia, which consumes something like 3% of the world’s energy budget, produces huge amounts of CO2 — but a lot of it is captured and sold to, among other things, carbonated beverage manufacturers.

  114. 114.

    OzarkHillbilly

    @Matt McIrvin: That happened to a guy in my local, fractured his skull (hardhats aren’t very protective if they come off in a 3 story fall). Fucked him up permanently. It’s why they have all the rules and regulations about securing elevator shafts on job sites. The GC on that site wasn’t particularly zealous about following OSHA regs. They probably got fined $5K but got it reduced on appeal to a few hundred.

  115. 115.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Jeffro:

    oh, okay NYT…since it wasn’t a “substantive policy proposal [trump] had considered thoughtfully”, we (and certainly Biden/Harris 2024) should just let it slide.  Riiiiiiiiiiiight…

    It’s like, when did Trump ever “consider” anything “thoughtfully”?  Let alone a “substantive policy proposal.” That didn’t stop him from coming within one vote of killing the ACA when he was President.

    The FTFNYT needs one of those Xitter things where readers provide needed context on a paragraph-by-paragraph basis.

  116. 116.

    Geminid

    The Jerusalem Post reported on a meeting in Qatar this morning that was attended by Israeli Mossad chief David Barnea, CIA Director William Burns, the Qatari Prime Minister and Egyptian officials. The meeting’s purpose was described as “building on” the current truce between Israel and Hamas, which was extended yesterday by two days.

    Burns has become a key representative for President Biden, first with Ukraine and now with this war. Burns’ position was elevated to Cabinet status some months ago.

  119. 119.

    Ken

    @Scout211: Pity the TSA is a government service. A private company would roll out a gold-level membership, that lets you skip the lines at the regular pre-check — and would have plans for the platinum level when the gold lines got too long.

  120. 120.

    RevRick

    @Kay: Why are housing prices so high?
    Well, a huge factor is zoning regulations which mandate such things as parking minimums, setbacks, lot sizes, all of which add to the cost of building and mean that only huge McMansions can be built, thus pricing most of the potential market out, pushing more people into the older home market. Since the Great Recession there’s been a deficit of around 3 million new homes compared to the pre 2006 average. In fact, we haven’t built as many single family houses as we did in 1986!

  121. 121.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Soprano2:

    You reminded me to look at our stats for miles of sewer built, because that’s a way to see what development is like.

    Lucky you. Our county is almost entirely on septic systems, and is only now realizing that we’re gonna have to have sewer because too many septic systems are failing, and many lots don’t have the room for a new drain field because the state increased the requirements for them a couple decades back.

  122. 122.

    There go two miscreants

    @Poe Larity: ​I read the column and am very skeptical of that explanation. Regardless, we have a good natural experiment available here, because many of the beds sold in recent years are all-foam. (Subject to the usual data-collection problems with any lifestyle study.)

    My current bed is all wood and foam, for example, with some minor metal parts (bolts and small braces).

  123. 123.

    Ken

    @Matt McIrvin: Wait ’til they find out the last item on Trump’s bucket list is “have my biographers shot”.

    TRUMP: “Everyone in the bunker dies with me!”

    BIOGRAPHERS: “Masterful leadership! Wait, he doesn’t mean us, does he?”

    CADDY: “Don’t worry. He says that every time he ends up in a sand trap, until the rest of the foursome breaks down and agrees that it’s a ‘gimme’ putt from there.”

  124. 124.

    Soprano2

    @lowtechcyclist: I live in a medium-sized city, so of course we have a sewer system, although you’d be surprised how many people inside the city still don’t have access to it. We’re slowly filling in those gaps.

  125. 125.

    Steeplejack

    @Baud:

    Reid Epstein is a Times staff reporter. Says so right at the bottom of the article. He “covers campaigns and elections from Washington. Before joining The Times in 2019, he worked at The Wall Street Journal, Politico, Newsday and The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.”

  126. 126.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Dagaetch: But as Betty noted, this has often been the case over the decades. I only have my own experience to go by, but as far as I know, this is normal and yet always a bit of a shock to first-time homeowners.

  127. 127.

    Gin & Tonic

    @Ken: I’d consider it. My dear wife renewed her Global Entry about a year ago. Payment was processed immediately, new card has yet to appear. Contacting anyone to inquire about it is literally impossible.

  130. 130.

    Ken

    @Baud: Sadly, yes, but it’s slightly better than venting the CO2 from ammonia production, then manufacturing fresh CO2 for the fizzy drinks.

    We could do without the fizzy drinks, but we really can’t shut down the ammonia plants without causing a worldwide famine. There are some alternative catalytic processes for NH3, but last I read, they were still in the experimental stages.

  131. 131.

    Geminid

    @Baud: I think the truce is now scheduled to end Thursday. It might be extended again, but I think it’s unlikely to go on many more days before Israel resumes its offensive.

    Another Jerusalem Post story was about an official Qatari jet that landed at Ben-Gurion airport this morning. Qatari officials also flew in Saturday, when the 2nd hostage release seemed in doubt.

    Qatar and Israel do not have formal relations, so as a formality the jet that flew in Saturday stopped at Larnaka Airport in Cyprus before continuing on to Ben-Gurion Airport.

  133. 133.

    opiejeanne

    @Jeffro: Didn’t Pence also talk with Judge Luttig about his duty to  certify the election? I think that guy deserves some credit too.

  134. 134.

    Redshift

    I wasn’t on many of the threads yesterday, so I don’t know if it already got discussed, but this WaPo article (gift link) warmed my heart:

    Donations to GOP drop as worries mount about the party’s finances

    Donors have not cut as many large checks to the RNC in recent years, and the party’s small-dollar program has also suffered

    With bonus desperate lying from McDaniel about how this is totally normal because people are supporting primary candidates instead!

    Apparently GOP donors have woken up to the fact that money given to the RNC is likely to end up lining TFG’s pockets, and they don’t like it.

  135. 135.

    Matt McIrvin

    Long-term, income inequality is still very bad in the US, and that translates to a lot of suffering, as do the high prices of housing and education and health care. The ACA has helped a lot with health care but there’s a long way to go.

    That’s all true. It’s true under Democratic and Republican administrations. The thing is, it was also all true under Trump, but people have now this memory of Trump’s economy being awesome.

    As I’ve said before, I think part of it is just that nearly half the country is obligated to believe the economy is good under a Republican President and bad under a Democratic President. And then on top of that, you have some people reacting honestly to bad stuff in the economy, but it doesn’t get attention except when the other 45% are moaning that the economy sucks because a Democrat is in.

  137. 137.

    Marmot

    @lowtechcyclist:

    It’s like, when did Trump ever “consider” anything “thoughtfully”?  Let alone a “substantive policy proposal.” That didn’t stop him from coming within one vote of killing the ACA when he was President.

    Throughout that administration, I’d see columnists and news articles all, “What is his plan?” and “The strategy appears to be …” and “It may form a part of broader policy to …”

    That fool never had plans or strategy or policy beyond riling up idiots by lashing out at their collective enemies. I don’t see why they’d give him the benefit of the doubt, and newsfolk would do it constantly.

    (Stephen Miller and those creeps, though, their plans are horrifyingly real.)

  138. 138.

    Subsole

    @Tony Jay:

    What makes it so infuriating is that a great many people want substance.

    These media neckties and the investment boards that cut their checks have decided that we are all too shallow, lazy, and stupid to grasp anything but spectacle. So that is all they are going to sell us.

  139. 139.

    Steeplejack

    @OzarkHillbilly:

    My take is that the demand is not very high and therefore shelf stocking at the grocery is more haphazard than for mainstream items like Coke and Pepsi. I’ve seen a similar thing with Topo Chico, one friend’s favorite mineral water. She has asked me to be on the lookout for it and snag some whenever it’s available.

    ETA: Also, since Fresca is a low-selling item, there is less incentive for constant discounts and promotions to battle rival supermarkets.

  140. 140.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @NotMax: Fresca is my favorite sody-pop, though I don’t drink it much these days. But if you’re offering to pay me to drink it, let me send you my Zelle info and we can work something out.

  141. 141.

    opiejeanne

    @Soprano2: I think it’s influenced by watching tv and believing that a woman who writes about sex in NY can live in such a nice apartment in NYC.

    Most sitcoms’ main characters have unrealistic lifestyles, if you consider how much the average person with a similar job makes.

  142. 142.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: It’s slightly more complicated than just measuring new utility extensions, though that’s okay as a rough measure. Development nerds like me, who are really concerned about sprawl as bad for human health and climate change, will point out that an increasing percentage of new development in the last decade or so has been infill and redevelopment…. building on that random empty lot, or knocking down an old low-rise retail development and building a five-over-one (apartments over retail), or combining a few single-family lots into a small condo complex, etc. This is, on a macro scale, great! We get more people living in less space, which is a more efficient use of infrastructure and leave more land undisturbed. But it can be disruptive for nearby residents and that’s why we see opposition to it pretty frequently.

  143. 143.

    Geminid

    @Ken: Ammonia production will eventually be decarbonized. Besides new processes like you mention, carbon capture technology is advancing and point sources like ammonia and cement plants are likely applications for carbon capture.

    Also, “Green” hydrogen may eventually be produced in quantities great enough to reduce ammonia production’s carbon footprint. Currently, hydrogen used in this and other industries comes from reforming natural gas, which produces a lot of CO2.

  145. 145.

    Marmot

    @Ken:

    We could do without the fizzy drinks, but we really can’t shut down the ammonia plants without causing a worldwide famine. There are some alternative catalytic processes for NH3, but last I read, they were still in the experimental stages.

    That’s too bad. I’d heard there were other processes, but that nobody’d managed to scale it up.

    I was horrified when I first realized how a nitrogen reformer works, and was overcome by dismay when I first saw one up close. They burn the shit out of a zillion tons of “natural” gas (liquid petroleum gas) with some catalysts, causing N2 in the air to capture hydrogens. Nothing subtle or clever to it.

  147. 147.

    Redshift

    @Matt McIrvin: One of the factors in Krugman’s column about it was that supporters of each party have always judged the economy somewhat more harshly when the other part is in power, but Republicans are now much more partisan about it than Democrats, whereas it used to be about equal.

  148. 148.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: That’s true, we’ve seen a substantial amount of apartment infill being built the past 5 years or so (as someone who knows about the sewer system, I cringe when I see where some of it is being built). It’s a response to demand due to us having three good-sized universities in the city – there is a huge need for lots and lots of apartments. What I thought was striking was that for about 5 years there was almost no new sewer main added to our system, which meant that pretty much all development was that infill type, or new commercial properties that might need one or two new lines. ETA – a lot of older houses were torn down to build those apartments, which made some people mad, but it was an obviously better use of the land since those houses were already divided into small crummy apartments. You could put many more units on the same land with a building that was built to be apartments.

  149. 149.

    Geminid

    @Marmot: There is a lot of scientific and engineering work being done on this and other industrial processes that are big contributors to greenhouse gases. Much of it is in the area of materials science. As far as applications go, the EU will probably lead the way.

  150. 150.

    taumaturgo

    Let’s look at the basic needs and the effect on working folks’ sentiment about the economy from outside the bubble here 1. Economic inequality makes the economy work wonders for the people that horde most of the gains, and conversely, it makes the economy shitty for those with a smaller size of the pie. 2. Housing is unaffordable for recent generations that, unlike boomers who received substantial backing from the government when it came to secure mortgage loans, now there is hardly any relief. Now they hate big government for others, but not for them. 3. Property insurance is at the point of becoming unaffordable for many, couple with high interest rates and the elders sitting on 3% interest rates mortgages has frozen the real estate market to the point of crisis for most folks. Healthcare profits seeking goes on unabated and continues the greatest wealth transfer from the working class to the corporate oligarchs who owe big pharma and health insurers. Like death and dying, most of us refuse to contemplate the possibility of personally having to make a choice between medication or paying the rent, or seeking treatment for an ailment that could progress to something worse. The facts show that the choice could be between bankruptcy or healthcare. Yet we believe it is not going to happen to us, and if it does, there is always Fund me, I guess. 4. Wages stagnation, which is driven by policy decisions, not mysterious economic jumble jumbo. Starvation wages weaken workers confidence in the system and today’s’ real wages, accounting for inflation, has about the same purchasing power that it did 40 years ago. Was this an unexamined factor that gave us MAGA and Trump? None of the structural fundamentals are up for the past due reforms that would benefit the masses, since both political parties are beholden by the well-to-do captains of businesses whose interests are diametrically opposed to the working folk’s well-being. No amount of voting – as history attest – will elect politicians that are committed to earnestly and honestly improve the lives of the many, save in rare, dire situations. Under the current elections laws and current party leaderships they can’t, it is nearly impossible since they must abide by the instructions and wishes of the donors class. Look at true owners of this country that through their lobbyist “invested” over $4.2 billions in 2022 to get their way, not ours.

  151. 151.

    Suzanne

    @RevRick:

    Well, a huge factor is zoning regulations which mandate such things as parking minimums, setbacks, lot sizes, all of which add to the cost of building and mean that only huge McMansions can be built, thus pricing most of the potential market out, pushing more people into the older home market. Since the Great Recession there’s been a deficit of around 3 million new homes compared to the pre 2006 average. In fact, we haven’t built as many single family houses as we did in 1986! 

    YAAAAAAS. The zoning codes in many areas are specifically written to prevent houses that would be good starter homes from being built. Minimum lot sizes and floor area ratios are big ones.

    I read one estimate from a housing policy think tank (which I can’t find now) which said that, if we wanted to have a genuinely well-functioning housing market, we would need seventy-five million more units in the country. That is to provide excess capacity to bring supply down enough to lower prices significantly, to allow people to trade up and downsize but stay in their hometowns, to accommodate population growth, etc. That means more of every type of housing, single-family and multi-family, in every urban area, for rich and poor.

    I read some interesting facts about NYC. One is that the city has never tracked how many housing units have been lost by unit combinations (people buying adjacent units and combining them to make one bigger unit, or taking an old townhome that had been divided and then un-dividing it). It’s thought to be a significant number as the city got wealthier. Also that there were fewer permits for new housing construction last year than there were in 1960. This is…. not awesome!

  154. 154.

    catclub

    @lowtechcyclist: You really think reporters need to learn calculus? ;-)

     

    I wish they could tell the difference between an amount and a flow.

    When they say that Apple is the same size as the GDP of Upper Crackistan, the GDP is  an amount per year ( a flow) while the price of the stock, multiplied by the number of shares, is an amount.

  156. 156.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: Climate change is a huge reason to support infill development. Paving miles of new streets and highways, running power and water and sewer lines….. it makes much less impact to use what w already have more efficiently.

    Apparently that makes me a neoliberal shill, I’ve been told.

  157. 157.

    MomSense

    The cost of housing is a big problem as is the related shortage of housing.  What people are not discussing is how much of the problem is the result of decisions made at the local level.  Look at town/municipal zoning ordinances like the minimum lot sizes, parking requirements, etc.  Then there is the issue of what makes money for the developers a whole lot of NIMBY, funding for low income housing, and so much more.

    You can’t believe the shit townspeople said about apartment complexes in between strip malls in my liberal town.  It was such a fight to get approval.

  158. 158.

    catclub

    @Matt McIrvin: If Democrats had been pure gangsters bent on winning elections they’d have let the economy crash hard during the COVID shutdowns,

     

    And if Trump had simply been moderately competent in dealing with the pandemic, like just letting the people who knew best run the response, he would have won re-election in a walk.

     

    Alternative histories.

  160. 160.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    5-Over-1, another Market Urbanist Turd concept or as developers here call it “Mixed Vacancy”.  They hate it because there is simply not enough demand for all the forced retail space, they’d rather just build their usual shitty-designed apartments.  That and the fact they charge very high rents so few businesses can afford to rent.  The result is nothing but ground-level empty space.  Well, except when they’re turned into dog-washing stations and gyms for the hordes of young, white folks from suburbia who flock to such apartments.

    Also too, market-rate solutions that start with “they’ll build excess capacity so that prices will fall” shows the usual complete failure to understand the realities of urban real estate.  But it’s not about understanding, it’s a grift built around Reganomics for Housing.

  161. 161.

    Jeffro

    Btw folks, the Koch network has come out and endorsed Nikki Haley for prez.  Go long, looooooong I say, on popcorn futures (for obvious reasons!)

  162. 162.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: I like infill housing, it’s a good idea, but I think at least here one of the problematic things about it is that it’s mostly done in the older part of town, where the infill turns into rental property. That happened in my neighborhood this year, where a brand-new house was built by an investment company and is now a rental house. They know that people who want to buy a house to live in too often turn their nose up at the idea of buying even a brand new house in the part of town where I live even though it’s really not bad. We’re on the side of town that’s regarded as not as nice (it’s the “dark” side of town), so more and more houses turn into rentals.

  164. 164.

    jonas

    @Lapassionara:  I still see high meat prices at the grocery store, and I wish someone would investigate the cause of that phenomenon.

    A lot of animal products are expensive now because of the drought in the midwest — ranchers had to sell their herds and the price of hay and feed is through the roof in a lot of places. How much longer cattle ranching is going to be viable in places like Texas and the southern plains states is a big question. You can’t raise livestock when it’s over 100 degrees for weeks on end, the wells run dry, and you don’t have any grass to graze them on.

  165. 165.

    Kathleen

    @Kay: I still find it interesting that two major newspapers (WaPoop and NY Slimes) jumped on a known hit piece on the Clintons as a “source”. Take that back. I find it further evidence that two major newspapers have chosen to openly support fascism,

  166. 166.

    Steeplejack

    @Baud:

    I’m not defending the piece. I’m just correcting the tendency on here for people in general to see a link or a mention of something on the universally reviled NYT (and elsewhere, too) and shoot off on all sorts of assumptions about who wrote it and what their agenda is, without taking 10 seconds to look at the thing itself.

    In fact, the piece is not that bad. I think Jeffro is hyperventilating a bit. The “weaponize” thing that set him off does not even appear in the article, only in the headline. About the only negative thing said about Biden is Jeffro’s second pull quote:

    Still, Mr. Biden’s aides intend to once again push to make Mr. Trump and his proposals the news. That strategy has become a key cog for the campaign, as Mr. Biden struggles with low approval ratings and increasingly focuses on foreign policy rather than his re-election bid.

    Relatively mild from the evil Times.

  168. 168.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: Infill housing is incredibly sought-after in many cities in the country. Sells for probably 2x the cost per square foot relative to the burbs, even if the neighborhoods aren’t great. Very attractive to people who work in downtowns.

    Which, of course, means gentrification. Which is often hated by renters.

  169. 169.

    Jackie

    @Redshift:

    Apparently GOP donors have woken up to the fact that money given to the RNC is likely to end up lining TFG’s pockets, and they don’t like it.

    Back when TIFG was mulling about re-running, he threatened to run as an Independent, Ronna said “Do it, and the RNC will stop paying your legal fees.” It was a temporary Biggly Deal at the time, but a LOT of Rethugs learned where their small donations were actually going and apparently many of them balked at financing a supposed billionaire, and shifted to donating directly to candidates of their choice.

    A lose-lose for Ronna AND TIFG🤭

  171. 171.

    Soprano2

    @Suzanne: That’s interesting, because I don’t see that here. Of course, this is a mid-sized city, so it’s probably different – there’s still a lot of room to build new subdivisions that aren’t that far from the city. Most of the lots for infill here are in neighborhoods on what’s considered the less desirable side of town. There are some neighborhoods on this side of town that have gentrified, but they tend to be the ones where there are big, old houses that were probably expensive to build when they were new, thus “cool old houses”.

  172. 172.

    Dave

    @lowtechcyclist: We still comparatively low housing costs in my area but with rate increase plus housing price price increases you are probably looking at 50%-70% increase in housing costs for over the last few years (rent has gone up significantly acriss the board as well).  One or the other would have been fine but combined it’s a hell of blow that you really feel.

    In my particular case I’m hitting my mid 40’s tired of renting and the yearly increases just recovered enough from PTSD and general disruption while feeling very trapped by it that it’s incredibly frustrating.  Now I don’t make the mistake of confusing my experience with everyone else’s or placing blame on the wrong sources but you do feel it.

    Housing and food are unavoidable costs (they can be managed to a degree but reality is I’m tired I spent years trying to gain traction and it is frustrating that traction occurred when it did).  Now having said that I don’t feel that we are doing poorly but I can’t ignore the frustration as well as I’d like to.

  173. 173.

    Suzanne

    This was a nice piece in today’s WaPo about 15-minute cities, somewhat relevant to this discussion.

    Step 1: Build more housing near stuff that people want to access.

    It sometimes blows my mind that we needed to be reminded of these things.

  174. 174.

    Kathleen

    @satby: I’ve owned 3 condos in my Cincinnati neighborhood and sold my last one to an investor who is now my landlord. I decided at 73 that at my age I didn’t want debt and I wanted to be able to just walk away from a property should a need arise. It was a good decision for me but everyone’s needs and personal goals are different.

  175. 175.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: And assuming he was referring to TFG as his ‘friend’?!?! I bet Cheetolini gotta laugh out of that. He doesn’t have ‘friends’. Doesn’t want ‘friends’. Only toadies need apply.

  176. 176.

    Suzanne

    @Soprano2: Probably influenced by distance to potential new housing. Phoenix, Salt Lake, Denver, Austin, Bay Area…. infill projects there are $$$. Even when it’s just replacing old single-family for new single-family. The new units are bigger than the previous units, to cater to richer buyers.

    But that’s really because the other options are a smaller, older home, or a long-ass commute.

  177. 177.

    Marmot

    @Geminid: Yeah, that’d be nice. There’s a lot of room for improvement. Caveman chemistry is the current state of affairs for both fertilizer and cement production.

    The inertia is what bothers me most. There’s shockingly little in the way of academic research on improving chemical manufacturing. Maybe that’s getting better. But back 10 years or so, when I asked engineers where I could find studies on plant efficiency and so forth, they pointed to these garbage pay-for-play “benchmarking” firms.

    They were genuinely unaware that these things could be studied in a systematic, dispassionate way. It seemed that any real innovation was always hidden in-house as part of a competitive advantage.

    Edit: Too many “improving”s.

  180. 180.

    mrmoshpotato

    Onshoring manufacturing – and particularly in green energy – was not only something the media said would not get done, but is growing the economy so of course @nytimes finds a way to shit on it (“is too much economic growth bad for America?” – basically)

    Stupid slapdicks.  Fuck ’em.

  183. 183.

    Marmot

    @Suzanne:

    Phoenix, Salt Lake, Denver, Austin, Bay Area…. infill projects there are $$$. Even when it’s just replacing old single-family for new single-family. The new units are bigger than the previous units, to cater to richer buyers.

    But that’s really because the other options are a smaller, older home, or a long-ass commute.

    This dynamic is driving me nuts — we get smaller single-family homes demolished for … extremely large single-family homes. That ain’t infill! There are fewer people living in these areas now, because so many are purchased by empty-nesters.

    So idiotic. Anyone know of a policy fix for that?

  186. 186.

    Geminid

    @Marmot: If you look up current developments in this field you may find that the time of inertia is over. There is a lot of fresh scientific work and some of the developments are starting to move beyond the laboratory phase. My own technical knowledge is pretty thin, but I can usually understand the headlines at least.

  188. 188.

    Suzanne

    @Marmot: So idiotic. Anyone know of a policy fix for that?

     
    Change zoning from single-family (usually called R-1) to multi-family. That changes the “highest and best use” of a parcel. If a developer can turn a lot into four townhomes, the total of which sell for more than one single-family house, they will. The neighbors will absolutely lose their shit.

    But, I mean, urban living is an attractive, aspirational thing for people. It’s not going to be cheaper until there is a shit-ton more of it.

  190. 190.

    Marmot

    @Suzanne: I should have clarified. I’m not hugely knowledgeable, but multi-family units — and multi-unit developments per lot — are allowed in these areas. They’re just not built!

    I assume the profit is a lot higher for a huge stucco box, rather than two medium-sized family homes. But yeah, I’m no expert

    Edit: “a huge, cheaply built stucco box,” I mean.

  192. 192.

    Suzanne

    @Marmot: Obvs the details matter…. if there are setbacks or parking requirements that would make the buildable area of a lot really small if you divided it into two, or a floor area ratio requirement that functionally mandates a big property, or a height restriction that means you can’t build over two stories, or whatever….. yeah, it means there’s not gonna be two cheap houses.

    Mr. Suzanne grew up in a very typical middle-class home in Menlo Park, CA. It’s been torn down and a huge monstrosity is now on that property. The demand is so high in some of the really expensive cities that there’s some rich asshole who wants to live there badly enough.

    We need more more more. After WWII, we recognized that housing the population with modern (for the time) homes was essential to our collective national prosperity. We got away from that idea.

  193. 193.

    Suzanne

    @RevRick: Agreed. That’s why I bought a hundred-year-old fixer in an older city (densely packed neighborhood, lots of divided houses and ADUs, etc.). I have Sears houses down the street. It sucks that we don’t do this anymore.

  194. 194.

    Miss Bianca

    @Suzanne:

    After WWII, we recognized that housing the population with modern (for the time) homes was essential to our collective national prosperity. We got away from that idea.

    QFT, I have thought about that often lately. How much the literati sneered at “little houses made of ticky-tacky”, but damn…a *lot* pf people needed a *lot* of housing! No matter what it looked like!

  196. 196.

    gvg

    @Marmot: No, and I am not sure we should. I looked at some older homes. the¥ didn’t have modern insulation and the heating/cooling bills every month+mortgage would have added up to more expensive than the mortgage + energy for a newer house. Then there was probable renovation costs in things like plumbing and the fact that older electrical layouts just don’t meet modern needs (not enough outlets, loads too low and sometimes dangerous wiring such as aluminum). Then we get into things like lead paint, asbestos and steps and doorways that are not handicap or aging friendly. A lot of older housing ought to be torn down and replaced when we can make it economically desirable which does mean when the area makes people with money think its worth it.

  197. 197.

    louc

    @Gin & Tonic: If it’s like pre-check, all she needs is her known traveler # they gave her when she signed up. I don’t have a card for pre check, just a #. I just punch it in when I’m making my airline reservation and it automatically shows up on my board pass.

  198. 198.

    Ksmiami

    @Suzanne: basically suburban development was bad for America and the environment and now ppl see more value in being close to actual stuff to do.

  199. 199.

    Another Scott

    @Suzanne: A 1960s church near us was recently torn down and something like 6 McMansions on ~ 1/8 acre lots were thrown up in its place.  It’s better than a single giant home, but the land could have done so much more (strip mall and grocery across the street, elementary school diagonal across the intersection, county library and rec center across the other street, and they’re on a couple of bus lines)…

    There are still a couple of the houses for sale…

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  200. 200.

    Matt McIrvin

    @Miss Bianca: During the postwar period of broad general prosperity there was a lot of handwringing about how it was turning us into a soulless, tacky consumer culture. And, well, maybe it was, but consider the alternative.

    There was that well-documented shift right at the Reagan revolution when suddenly real wages no longer tracked productivity improvements, and economic inequality started to increase and we never looked back. I think the drop in price of consumer goods from a combination of technological progress and globalization of manufacturing papered over a lot of it, and made people generally still feel pretty good about the economy except during temporary recessions. There was all this great stuff you could buy that nobody could afford in 1965.

    But even that cost drop drove up the price of any product or service that couldn’t be optimized that way (Baumol’s cost disease or something like it). And now that’s reached a real crisis point.

  201. 201.

    Suzanne

    @gvg:

    A lot of older housing ought to be torn down and replaced 

    YAAAAAS thank you.
    The land is the valuable thing. The buildings are not.
    It’s a trope that “they just don’t build them like they used to”, but that’s really selective. Lots of old houses were built cheaply and there are definitely things we now do better. Insulation, water use, and energy code stuff like HVAC are big ones.

  202. 202.

    Soprano2

    @gvg: I think about this with our house, if either one of us were in a wheelchair we’d have to move because the cost to make our house wheelchair-friendly would be too high.

  204. 204.

    Ruckus

    @Suzanne:

    My parents bought a 50+ yr old house in SoCal in 1958 that of course had zero insulation. It is still standing today. The framing was made out of thicker lumber than we see today but insulation? None. So not quite as important as in say Montana. We have had snow fall 3 times in my lifetime in this area. One had to catch the snowflakes because when they hit the ground they were gone in very, very short order. But it has snowed here in my lifetime.

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