Not a slow news day today!
BREAKING: Jack SMITH has gone straight to SCOTUS on the question of presidential immunity for Donald Trump’s Washington, D.C. charges and he’s seeking to expedite the matter. The petition:https://t.co/g8EMllnhDe
— Kyle Cheney (@kyledcheney) December 11, 2023
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BREAKING: Explaining ⬇️the Smith filing seeking direct Supreme Court review now of the presidential immunity/double jeopardy Trump claims, so as to preserve the March 4 trial date. https://t.co/cbqUZcTJlK
— Andrew Weissmann (weissmann11 on Threads)🌻 (@AWeissmann_) December 11, 2023
DOJ could’ve played it passive, and tried to suggest to the court that it didn’t need to take up the immunity issue. But it realized that was a longshot and not candid besides; so they very smartly decided to jump the gun.
— Harry Litman (@harrylitman) December 11, 2023
Dmbeaster
This is really smart.
And if the Supremes will not take the case now, it hugely reinforces the ability of the trial judge and the DC Circuit to permit the case to go forward without delay despite alleged immunity.
Will Trump’s lawyers agree to the petition? It undermines their strategy of delay.
Old School
Can they rule that Trump has presidential immunity, but Joe Biden wouldn’t?
Martin
Yeah, what’s the point of not going straight to USSC? It’s not like they’re going to actually give a shit about any lower court ruling on something like this, and it’s not like anyone is going to care about any lower court ruling on something like this. The question of presidential immunity has massive consequences, so why fuck around?
Plus it seems like a safe move.
West of the Cascades
Also, this puts huge political pressure on Roberts, Kavanaugh, and Coney Barrett (the most “institutionalist” of the Sinister Six) to (a) rule expeditiously, i.e. in time to preserve the March 4 trial date and (b) to rule there is no immunity in these circumstances (because if they rule there IS immunity the utter lawlessness of the Supreme Court becomes a big issue in the 2024 elections – as if Dobbs didn’t already make it so).
catclub
@Old School: I larfed.
Jeffg166
@Old School: That goes without saying. TFG is special. Everyone else isn’t especially if you are a Democrat.
Martin
@Old School: Probably not. They could try to come up with a narrow ruling, but that’s going to be called out everywhere.
scav
Certainly defuses the while concept of the Supremes being viewed as a threat / cudgel. Speaks to the strength of the evidence, legal foundations and case. That’ll ruffle a few cages and get the ketchup to hit the fan.
realbtl
Is it too much to hope that TFG is turned down by one or more of “his” SC judges and he goes after them like he has against everyone else who has thwarted him?
Martin
@Jeffg166: USSC hasn’t treated him as special though. It’s the one place the court has held. Alito and Thomas treat him as special, but the other 7 don’t.
Edmund dantes
I like this move. Smart to move the ball forward to where it is going to end up anyways.
Will be fun watching the supremes try to punt on it considering how they’ve become very active in recent years about taking cases before they are actually ripe.
catclub
Meddling in elections is part of the duties of the President. They read it written in invisible ink in the consty.
cain
@Old School: If it is only former presidents – I guess that means Clinton and Obama also get IMMUNITY.
smith
@Martin:
They may be corrupt, but they’re not dumb (well, most of them anyway), and they know that if they make the president supreme, then they no longer will be.
cain
Speaking of Supreme court – the young lady couldn’t wait for the SCOTUS to hear her petition in regards to her abortion and fled Texas to get an abortion. This means that a price tag is going to be put on her head thanks to Texas law. The fact that she had to flee so she could a) save her life b) protect the ability to have more children – should underscore where the hell this country is going when it comes to women.
At the same time, we’re talking about whether a former president can get immunity for crimes. Absolutely bonkers.
smith
@cain:
If they’re not immune, can we try Bush the Lesser for fraud in lying us into the Iraq War?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@cain:
Oh, but Texas is so business friendly, the taxes are low (not), and jobs plentiful, so say all the idiots moving there. Who cares about our civil rights as long as I get paid?
eclare
Great move, Jack and his team are constantly thinking about next moves.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
Not a lawyer, but I agree with everyone that this is a good move by Smith based on what I’m reading. It’s good to be proactive
Jackie
I applaud this move by Jack Smith!
I can’t wait to hear TIFG’s rabid response!
Ken
“The Court holds that the President does not have immunity. However, as the issue had not previously been adjudicated, to apply this to prior acts would have the effect of an ex post facto law, so this ruling does not apply to any acts before the current date….”
smith
@cain:
Remember that TX is also the state that allows any random person to take you to court if they think you’ve gotten an abortion. They also can prosecute anyone helping a woman to get an abortion. Paxton may not yet be done with the stupid AG tricks, and whatever slack he leaves will be picked up by the Christofascists.
cain
@smith: I think clearly, this woman should run for President. Apparently, she can then be immune and that any attack would simply be a political attack.
cain
@smith: Oh absolutely – there will be many lawsuits. Women are going to see what a scary world Texas is going to be – because every woman could relate to pregnancy issues – everyone who can still bear children is going to be frightened.
Harrison Wesley
Just hoping that Sam Alito doesn’t discover a “precedent” from the Salem Witch Trials or wherever he does his legal shopping.
kindness
I have friends who moved from California to Texas within the last couple years. They all say they pay higher taxes (property) and fees in Texas than the cumulative taxes (property & income) they had paid in California. I bet if they pulled the paperwork on their local oil refinery they would find their (the refinery) taxes and fees are zero (if not negative).
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@smith:
@cain:
It amazes me that Paxton is doing this, despite how much everyone has seen at this point how popular abortion rights are. At this point, it’s political kryptonite for Republicans, and we’re going into an election year where a US Senate seat is up grabs
lowtechcyclist
@smith:
That mofo should be tried for war crimes at The Hague. And all his surviving accomplices too.
They’re too late to try Kissinger, they shouldn’t miss the boat on Shrub & Co. Especially since Rummy and Powell have already kicked the bucket. No time to waste.
WaterGirl
@Jackie:
“sputter, sputter… how dare he take something I was planning to hold over his head and do something about it while there is still time?!?!!?!!!”
Martin
Oh, Alex Jones is unbanned on Twitter.
But what if they bring you more engagement? Would you have mercy then?
WaterGirl
@smith: Did they limit it to $10,000 for the first person to report, or could 100 or a thousand people report the same one, and each would get their $10k?
Yutsano
Inasmuch as I love the Dallas area…you could not pay me enough to live in Texas. Especially after Paxton admitted he manipulated the election to block the fact that Biden and Beto won. And no one cared.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
What the hell is this supposed to be a reference to from Jones? The recent TX and Warren, OH cases? If it is, fuck him. These women would not have been famous in the first place if not for his fellow travelers
sdhays
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): I’m more amazed that Paxton isn’t in prison. I wonder how many people he kills (not just through his “official” actions, but with own bare hands) before the law finally takes this thug off the streets. He clearly doesn’t think the law applies to him, and, so far, he’s been right.
I hope the answer isn’t “never”.
lowtechcyclist
@Yutsano:
Hard to care about something you never knew in the first place. Linky?
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Yutsano:
Wait, what?! The entire state? So the 2020 polling wasn’t off for Biden winning Texas after all?
Martin
@kindness: California’s income taxes are quite progressive. Property tax – not at all.
But the progressive tax is the source of CAs boom/bust budget cycles. If our billionaires don’t have a good year cashing out, the budget crashes.
Raoul Paste
I can’t predict Trump’s exact response, but the word “deranged” will be in it somewhere
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): That was Musks justification for not restoring Jones’ account after he bought Twitter. I guess he’s gotten over the death of his first child.
smith
@WaterGirl:
I have no idea, but I fear we will soon see a practical demonstration. I just hope all the nice suburban Republican moms are paying attention as this plays out.
sdhays
@Martin: I wish Xitter would bleed Musk dry faster.
I’m starting to think (not really “starting”) that the other investors in Xitter have given up on their money and aren’t ever going to attempt an intervention.
It must be nice to be able to light billions of bank money on fire with no consequences to your credit or freedom.
WaterGirl
Interesting take.
I have the impression that Jack Smith doesn’t do anything by accident. Is this a power move? (It’s so obvious I won’t insult your intelligence by laying out?)
Or might this be a matter of Jack Smith not making an argument that the SC-6 could twist and therefore find a way to rule against him? Playing defense, while taking the offense.
Dare I mention 11-dimensional chess?
Martin
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): Paxton credited his blocking of Houston sending out mail-in ballots as winning Texas for Trump. He’s probably right.
Goku (aka Amerikan Baka)
@Martin:
Oh. Musk is an absolute husk of a man. I know what Twitter means for lots of people, but it can’t crash and burn fast enough for me. I think the days when it did more good than harm are over
WaterGirl
@Yutsano: I would like to see that. When did Paxton admit that?
Dorothy A. Winsor
@cain: I’m still reeling about that woman in Ohio who’s being prosecuted for mistreatment of a corpse because she miscarried into the toilet and flushed. Do you know how many women miscarry early and bleed into the toilet? What are they supposed to do?
The Thin Black Duke
There’s a great scene from Lessons In Chemistry when after Elizabeth Zott does the first episode of her cooking show “Dinner at Six”, every corporate guy in the TV station is openly contemptuous and dismissive of the program. “Cancel it”, they say. But then they get quiet when the room is filled with the sounds of telephones ringing and they’re astonished when they learn that the calls are from women saying how much they enjoyed Elizabeth Zott’s show. Thanks to Dobbs, I believe a lot of men in the United States are going to be surprised that the calls from pissed-off women are coming from inside the house.
smith
@kindness:
Didn’t Newsom recently get into a pissing match with Abbott, in which one of his points was that while wealthy people have lower taxes in TX than CA, middle class people actually pay more?
Martin
@Dorothy A. Winsor: Obviously the respectful thing to do with an aborted fetus – hand it to Bill Clinton.
dmsilev
@Martin: Also, according to Musk’s first wife, Musk’s story about being the one to hold the infant as he died is, well, completely and utterly false.
I’m shocked.
Old School
@WaterGirl:
…
John S.
@Martin:
That’s pretty rich coming from a guy who used the deaths of children for gain, politics and fame.
smith
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
And note that if a woman miscarries in a hospital, the expelled material is just shipped off to be incinerated with other medical waste, not something they do with corpses. Will OH start prosecuting hospitals as well? Or just forbid any miscarriages from taking place in the state?
New Deal democrat
Correct. Two points:
1. We all know that Trump will appeal any adverse DC Circuit ruling. SCOTUS is going to hear this anyway. Why not get it out of the way now?
2. the SCOTUS GOP 6 owe Trump *nothing.* They already got their lifetime appointments. My guess is, they would rather have the trial and jury verdict early, rather than potentially have a Dictator who will ultimately disregard their rulings too if he wins. Institutional power and all that.
UncleEbeneezer
I was just listening to yesterday’s Jack Podcast episode explaining the other recent filing where Smith laid out how he plans to present evidence to prove that Trump incited January 6th and that he had a history of making public statements about election denial, that he suppressed evidence that there was no voter fraud, that he showed support before and after of The Proud Boys/Oathkeepers etc. And they explained Smith’s argument and reasoning on why this evidence, no matter how you look at it, should be let in based on the law. Andrew McCabe’s opinion was that 1.) this was a very smart approach and 2.) it is really smart to make this argument right up front to keep things moving and deny any claim by Trump later that he was blindsided. All the analyses I’ve heard from various legal minds have consistently praised the moves Jack Smith has made. He really seems to know what he’s doing and seems to be the perfect Special Counsel choice (thank you Merrick Garland) for trying to make sure justice is served for Trump’s crimes. I highly recommend anyone who is interested check out that episode.
artem1s
@dmsilev:
@Martin:
or let your living kids cuddle with it like Rick Santorum did
cmorenc
@Martin:
The current SCOTUS majority may have a strong RW ideological bias, but IMO seven of them are also institutionally biased toward preserving SCOTUS as an independent judicial institution and not servant of GOP politicians, especially Trump. They recognize the damage seeming to be a Trump facilitator / lapdog will do to their remaining respect and power and that their lifetime appointments insulate them from any need to cater to him. They (particularly Roberts) are playing a long game to remake US constitutional law in a conservative direction, and Trump the erratic, vengeful authoritarian is more impediment and threat to their institutional order than asset toward their long-term goals.
So, don’t be surprised if a majority give Trump the shiv on appeals from the several ongoing prosecutions against him.
C Stars
@smith: I have a friend who would be so happy if miscarriages were eliminated from existence, as she has suffered through three of them this year. The idea that these women are by law supposed to be sitting over a bucket or something as they painfully miscarry is just ghoulish.
catclub
Jones making money from lying about the Newton CT school shooting?
Origuy
Here’s some good news: Jezebel is back
catclub
I still don’t understand how any more Ob/gyn specialists can be trained in anti-abortion states and then licensed by a national board.
sab
@cain:It isn’t so much where it is going as that they are trying to take it back to where it used to be. Times have changed. In the old days ( through the 1960s) women just dutifully died. They really had no choice. Medically things haven’t changed that much for women wanting to have children. It’s just that Roe v Wade gave women and doctors more legal options when the biology went awry.
A Good Woman
@cain: did you really mean SCOTUS? The TX Supremes have the case, not SCOTUS.
Martin
@catclub: The boards are basically industry lobbyists. They’re not going to stop doing that.
BethanyAnne
@kindness: My rent + air conditioning bills in Houston were very close to my rent + electric in Berkeley. Add in mandatory car ownership in Houston, and it gets more expensive to be in Texas.
raven
Got our calendar, very nice.
Chetan Murthy
@kindness: Can I ask: would they be willing to say where they sit on the income distribution? Like, maybe which decile ? Or even within 20%-wide bands ? I ask b/c then we could look at Kevin Drum’s charts ( https://jabberwocking.com/texas-has-lower-taxes-than-california-for-some-people/ ) and see if your friends’ experience is in line with his predictions.
Fake irishman
@Martin:
Houstonian here, let’s not take Ken Paxton at his word. Harris County performed in line with what we would expect it to for that state outcome. (Trump 51-46 over Biden for state, about 57-42 in Harris) And I don’t think statewide mail ballots would have closed a 600,000 vote margin.
Texas has gotten a lot more competitive over the last decade, but we’re not there yet (Trump and Ken Paxton are doing their part tho — those suburban counties are bleeding fast for the GOP, look the the shift for Denton and Collin north of Dallas)
Mallard Filmore
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Wrap up every used tampon or pad and send it in to the prosecutors office. There might be a zygote in there.
jonas
@kindness: I’m sure he’s not the only one to have pulled the numbers on this, but Kevin Drum has had several illuminating posts on CA vs. TX or FL on taxes. The takeaway is that TX or FL are only better deals tax burden-wise if you’re already rich. Most working and middle-class folks are much better off staying in CA, where property taxes are lower and benefits and wages much higher.
WaterGirl
@raven: oh yay!
CaseyL
I’d like to agree with the commenters here who say SCOTUS won’t rule in favor of autocratic rule because that would interfere with SCOTUS’ own power.
My problem with that argument is that the three extremist hacks TFG put on the Court were recruited by and from the Federalist Society specifically for the purpose of creating an oligarch-friendly Unitary Executive. They might not care about losing “lose their own power” if it means fulfilling a mission the FedSoc has worked for decades to achieve.
It would be tricky but not impossible to do a TFG-only carveout for total Presidential immunity. SCOTUS could say they’re only “clarifying” what the Constitution says: Presidents who are acquitted in an impeachment trial are immune from criminal charges based on the same actions covered by the impeachment trial.
That flies in the face of any rational reading of the Constitutional text – not to mention decades of legal scholarship – but this would be the fifth or sixth time SCOTUS has done exactly that.
Fake irishman
@Old School:
This is self-serving bullshit from Paxton. There’s no way Dems could close that big of gap. Even if you upped Harris County’s turnout by 20 percentage points (which would put it at Minnesota-level turnout) AND Dems won ALL those votes (highly unlikely) it would have netted Dems only half of what they needed to overcome Trump’s statewide margin.
Matt McIrvin
@Old School: They could rule that the First Amendment means you have to give Donald Trump a blow job if there was a relevant case before them… but they have to live with the consequences. They seem to be sensitive to what people think of them for some reason.
cain
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): He is a ideologue with a very rigid punitive view. He is a low classed scoundrel who deserves to be meandering around the streets of Houston, homeless and destitute.
smith
@CaseyL:
I’ve seen a suggestion that Jack Smith didn’t charge TFG directly for inciting J6 — though he’s planning to cite it as part of a pattern of behavior — because that was what the impeachment focussed on, and he wanted to scotch any possibilty of him getting off due to double jeopardy. Instead his indictment is for fraud and election interference. Don’t know if it will work if SCOTUS is determined to find double jeopardy, but that might have been his rationale.
kalakal
@Harrison Wesley:
Matthew Hopkins is his favoured source I believe. After all, Witchfinder General is such a respected job title
sab
@kalakal: Why is an Opus Dei Catholic quoting a Puritan? Apparently the cruelty not the theology or ideology is the point.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
If the Puritan conveniently made several arguments that support the preferred position of the Opus Dei Catholic…
apocalipstick
@Fake irishman: Thank you. It’s hilarious when people excoriate Paxton as a liar, then become true believers when he says something that confirms their beliefs.
cain
@smith: They can put large billboards in Ohio.
“DO NOT MISCARRIAGE – ITS THE LAW”
pluky
@catclub: They can’t. Ob/Gyn Resident Physicians in such States have to arrange out-of-State fellowships to complete that phase of their board required training.
apocalipstick
@smith: Double jeopardy has nothing to do with this case, and a court that would find it does cannot be ‘scotched’ by any legal means.
cain
@A Good Woman: Oh, good point! Thanks for the correction.
WaterGirl
@smith: I hadn’t heard that, but it makes a lot of sense. thanks.
Jeffro
One of “Jack Smith”s tweets was signed
LOLOLOL
Print the t-shirts!!!
lowtechcyclist
@Old School:
Bzzzzzzzzzzzt! Not what Yutsano claimed.
He said “Paxton admitted he manipulated the election to block the fact that Biden and Beto won.” (Italics mine.) You’re saying Biden and Beto didn’t win, but they would have, absent Paxton’s skulduggery.
And Fake Irishman seems pretty convincing that even that isn’t the case.
smith
@apocalipstick:
But it is one of the arguments TFG is making in the appeal that Jack Smith has asked SCOTUS to review right away. I think Judge Chutkan made a good case against it in her ruling, but it might give the Dirty Six a way to get TFG off the hook without declaring that presidents are above the law, if they were so inclined.
WaterGirl
@apocalipstick: Maybe it’s like locking the door to your house or your car. It doesn’t mean no one can break in, but you take away the easier ways.
I can see Jack Smith wanting to avoid giving the Supreme Court even a hit of a fig leaf for finding for Trump.
As much as I wish he hadn’t filed the MAL case in Florida, I suspect the did it to avoid all the obvious litigation that would have followed where they claimed it was the wrong jurisdiction, and then the whole case could have been thrown out.
Jack Smith is smart, and I am willing to bet that he is ruthless as hell, and he uses that power for good.
WaterGirl
@Jeffro: I really enjoy (fake) Jack Smith most of the time.
Martin
@smith: Double jeopardy is directly covered. Article 1, Sec 3:
While that could be interpreted that only presidents that have been removed by impeachment lose their immunity, I don’t think any reasonable judge would actually buy into that.
Fake irishman
@lowtechcyclist:
Thanks. I generally find arithmetic services me well when evaluating a claim.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
listening to MSNBC, “Breaking news” as they say: the SC has just agreed to hear Smith’s case, asking for trump’s response by Dec 20
WaterGirl
@smith: I also imagine that there are lots of other things that Jack Smith could have charged Trump with, and didn’t.
I fully believe that Jack Smith has held back some very serious charges, so if he loses everything in round one, he will come back around with another set.
I also believe that ones Trump has (hopefully) been dealt with, that they will start in on the un-indicted co-conspirators, who will then hopefully turn on plenty of insurrectionists in the House.
prostratedragon
Petition granted
WaterGirl
@Martin:
And that’s the rub. The SC-6 are not reasonable or reputable, and they care little for the law itself. The law merely serves as a thing to be twisted to get the outcomes they want.
eclare
@WaterGirl:
Jack has resting conviction face.
Captain C
@Martin: Clarence and Sam’s dissent will start, “Despite what the Constitution clearly says…”
Geminid
@Fake irishman: The heck with arithmetic!
As they said in The Man Who Shot Liberty Valance: “Print the legend.”
smith
@Martin: That’s exactly what Chutkan based her ruling on. The anxiety I think we all feel about this going to SCOTUS stems from the fact that they seem to be working from a different version of the Constitution than the rest of us.
eclare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Whoa! I hope this means good news.
lowtechcyclist
@Fake irishman:
Arithmetic is pretty damn useful! Right up there with reading and writing, I’ve heard it said. ;-)
WaterGirl
lowtechcyclist
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Yay!!! And I like their tight timetable. That’s a week from Wednesday.
karen marie
@Old School: I’m a little surprised that Paxton would openly admit that if everyone who wanted to vote was able to vote that Trump would have lost.
It’s really a shame that few of the people affected by the lack of mail-in voting will ever understand that their Republican governor and the Republican legislature was responsible for their inability to vote.
Geminid
WTOP radio (DC) just reported that George Santos and federal prosecutors are negotiating a plea deal.
Harrison Wesley
@lowtechcyclist: I don’t need any of that stuff. I watch Fox News.
WaterGirl
@lowtechcyclist: Jack Smith asked for 12/18 as the date. And he pretty much got what he wanted, although “technically” they didn’t give him the date he asked for, but it’s only 2 days later.
Scout211
@prostratedragon: Good. Wednesday December 20th for respondent to file a response.
I just love reading all those legal filings with the heading
scav
bet Melania’s Xmas trees are red again this year — and very very sticky.
Love the speed.
WaterGirl
@Geminid: Wow. I just read – within the last 5 minutes – that the DOJ was about to move his case from Sept 2024 to April 2024.
I wonder if that helped move the needle.
Harrison Wesley
@Geminid: Did they say what name he was going to use?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
twitter :
RandomMonster
I’m having a little bit of trouble following the procedure. What does Trump “respond” with? Do they just respond with their side of the argument?
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
A fight to the death…
WaterGirl
I, too, don’t know what Trump’s response could possibly be to the request to jump directly to the Supreme Court.
Nice (fake) Jack Smith summary of the past few days and where we are now.
Geminid
@WaterGirl: Santos lacks ethics but I think he’s basically rational and can see that prosecutors have him wrapped up tight. He knows what he did, and he knows they know.
Santos is looking at prison time, and he might as well get it over with. And maybe Santos has dirt on other “high value targets.” If he does, he might as well start trading.
Captain C
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Clarence: “I hereby declare every other justice recused and I find Trump not only innocent of all current and future charges, but that he is President for Life! Someone buy me a new RV!!!”
WaterGirl
This is not what Trump would have hoped for, either in terms of the judges assigned or the timeframe for responses.
sab
@lowtechcyclist: Math scares me but arithmetic is useful. Math uses exponents and variables. Arithmetic is just numbers: plus, minus, times, divide.
eclare
@WaterGirl:
After almost three years, it seems like things are finally moving toward actual consequences.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@RandomMonster: making the case for immunity, I guess?
Could/would they argue that the SC shouldn’t hear the case? Doesn’t make much sense to my IANAL self, but his lawyers have shown a willingness to sound like fools to please their client
WaterGirl
@RandomMonster: I think this might partially answer your question?
eclare
@sab:
I took a couple of upper level math courses because I had done well in calculus. Things got really freaky really fast, and I do not think that way. The class on series and sequences, yikes!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
if Kavanaugh and Gorsuch rule against trump the on-line meltdown about “being BETRAYED by the very UNFAIR and UNQUALIFIED UNJUSTICES who I only appointed because of HORRIBEL advise from WEAK MIKE PENCE” is going to be epic
twbrandt
@sab: The different branches of arithmetic are ambition, distraction, uglification, and derision.
eclare
@twbrandt:
Don’t forget your guzintas! Two guzinta four two times. Beverly Hillbillies reference.
RaflW
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka): It would seem that the smart people are no longer moving to Texas. At least I’d hope they’re looking long and hard at the legal landscape (hellscape) there, as well as the sh*t the GOP is doing to schools and plenty of other things.
I’ve seen at least some reporting on the challenges high tech companies were indicating they were having post-Roe to get people to transfer to Texas offices.
Martin
Can anyone here point to a case that USSC granted in Trumps favor regarding the 2020 election? There have been dozens of rulings by USSC on that. None were in Trump’s favor.
Like, I get being suspect of this court, but they are not an unknown quantity in this matter.
kalakal
@twbrandt: With Reeling and Writhing to begin with
RandomMonster
I don’t know what that means.
twbrandt
@eclare: Oh right, timezes and guzintas.
eclare
@Martin:
Nope. And even Alito voted that TFG had to turn over papers to the Jan 6 commission. The only dissent was Thomas, and boy that looks shady as hell now.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Henderson is conservative, even though she’s Carter.
dmsilev
@WaterGirl:
Carter? Wow, talk about a long time on the job.
Harrison Wesley
@RaflW: All four of my siblings live in Texas and have for many years. Three are retired and the fourth is probably going to be working for a very long time.
Burnspbesq
The issues were extensively briefed in the district court. If we had a better Supreme Court than the one we have, it could grant cert and affirm per curiam “on the basis of the District Court’s thoughtful and thorough opinon.” All within about three weeks.
SiubhanDuinne
@sab:
Ambition, distraction, uglification, derision :-)
I agree with you, except I do love number patterns, and the older I get the more I admire the stark beauty of plane geometry. But otherwise, yes, I find math scary.
ETA: Curse you to heck, twbrandt@126! Curse you to heck and back!!
WaterGirl
@Baud: It only takes 2, right?
Baud
@Geminid:
Menendez next, hopefully.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
To tango, yes.
The Kropenhagen Interpretation
@eclare: If most of the rest of us tried to overthrow the government, we’d have been arrested or shot dead the same day.
Surely, this is why Trump has been complaining the whole thing is unfair, because they’re being so meticulous and letting a known criminal walk free…
zhena gogolia
@Martin: I can’t recall any. I think there would have been much wailing and gnashing of teeth here, so I would remember!
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Good use of misspellings.
eclare
@Baud:
Also to make the thing go right and to make it out of sight.
WaterGirl
@RandomMonster:
One of the attorneys can surely explain it better, but here’s my understanding. What the Supreme Court did here that was super good was to respond immediately (same day!) and set short turnaround times for the argument about whether they should review the case.
The SC could have dicked around (technical term!) for weeks or months, and could have held up the entire process by doing so. But they did not.
They moved promptly, which means they get that the timing is critical and it appears to me that they are not attempting to stick anything in the bicycle spokes.
So Trump gets 9 days to make his case, I suppose the case being why the SC should not agree to hear the case.
Hopefully an attorney will come along shortly and either agree with me or correct anything I got wrong!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
odds that he is also negotiating with Dancing With the Stars and/ or The Masked Singer? Pretty good. Can Real Ex-House Husbands of Jamaica Estates be far behind?
Did Palin do that Masked show or did I dream that ?
Baud
@zhena gogolia:
How would you remember one specific day of that?
Baud
@eclare:
Great. Earworm.
zhena gogolia
JLCauvin with a speedy response
Jim, Foolish Literalist
“Crooked Joe Biden’s henchman, Deranged Jack Smith….”
skerry
bluesky is telling me that the Texas SC said out loud that there are no medical exceptions to their abortion law. (I understand that Ms Cox has left the state to get her abortion.)
eclare
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
I think Palin did The Masked Singer. Santos seems like a better fit for one of the Bravo houewife shows. DWTS is too much work.
zhena gogolia
@Baud: True.
zhena gogolia
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: See my #150. You might as well watch Cauvin as get Trump’s reaction. They will be identical.
Raoul Paste
Well whadya know? The Guardian reports that an unnamed Trump spokesperson has responded to this Supreme Court filing, using the term “deranged jack Smith” multiple times.
Easiest prediction, ever. I saw this at Raw Story
RaflW
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’m pretty sure Clarence “oops I don’t file accurate tax returns” Thomas won’t recuse.
But good on senior Democrats starting to bang the drum of recusal. The Court is sensitive to being called illegitimate, even if C.T. and Alito bellyache about it. Durbin and Blumenthal making public note of the blatant conflict of interest here helps strengthen the legitimacy pressure.
skerry
@skerry: Sorry, previous link not working.
Texas SC vacates lower court ruling
prostratedragon
Did you know that Jack Smith once lost at SCOTUS? A TFG “spokesman” does.
Now, I’d think that in that light they’d be eager to sieze this opportunity, since the world knows they intended to push this case there eventually anyway, but Oh, the spluttering! Guess the issue is that “eventually” part.
RandomMonster
@WaterGirl: That’s helpful! Thank you!
eclare
@skerry:
It is horrible that she had to leave the state, but I’m glad she is getting the care she needs. What an awful situation, made worse by voters who could not vote for “‘that woman.”
bjacques
@zhena gogolia: that was great. But Cauvin sounds like Trump’s internal monologue. When Trump speaks he bellows.
RaflW
@Harrison Wesley: My brother and his wife live in Houston. I still have a few friends in Austin. But staying where one is, compared to making a move to Texas, I think are different calculations.
My kin definitely dislike the politics there. My bro used to be a ‘go along to get along’ sort of guy, ie split ticket moderate. Heading into 2020 was spitting mad about Abbot, Paxton and Trump (and didn’t vote for the short fingered vulgarian the first time, either). I don’t know how much longer they last there. He retires in 1.5–3 years, and that may finally budge them.
Jackie
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: That TIFG’s spokesman statement is ALMOST enough to make me watch Faux this evening…
But, it’s MNF!😉😁
eclare
@Baud:
I just watched the video. The first comment was if you want to see a bunch of 50+ yo’s run to the dance floor, put this on. Yep!
smith
@prostratedragon:
And of course if they argue that SCOTUS shouldn’t hear it now, and then lose at the Appeals Court, they’d be in an awkward situation if they then tried to take it back to SCOTUS. Could they even make such an appeal after arguing against it? I can’t imagine SCOTUS would be amused.
Someone is playing 11D chess, and I don’t think it’s TFG.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Whoever had “deranged” as the most certain word in Trump’s response wins, well, something! (It was Raoul Paste!)
Trump must be in a really bad way if “they” are making a statement, rather than Trump posting shit on Social Media. Maybe his attorneys are afraid he will fuck up and violate the gag order. Trump must be out of his mind with rage.
So no one has to click on Trump or twitter:
lowtechcyclist
@WaterGirl:
Friday, May 24, 1974: Leon Jaworski appeals the Watergate tapes case directly from the District Court to SCOTUS.
Big casino, baby.
zhena gogolia
@bjacques: Yes, it’s very much his internal monologue!
cmorenc
@WaterGirl:
That the supposedly random assignment of cases in the District in which Palm Beach is located wound up going to Aileen Cannon was a terrible bad break – because aside from the issue of how much time, qualification, and access Trump’s defense counsel legitimately require for trial prep, it’s factually the simplest, most open-and-shut case to prove, not just from a legal standpoint but from the standpoint of public perception and understanding. A different judge, and Trump’s obvious gross malfeasance would continue to get repeated frequent media exposure from faster-track treatment of the case, instead of being put in effective hibernation for many months.
WaterGirl
@cmorenc: Yep, handled properly, it’s the most straightforward case, and the case had the best chance of conviction. What’s happening with Cannon is a travesty. sigh.
RaflW
@skerry: Not a lawyer, but what a load of fucking horseshit. TX Supremes: “The law leaves to physicians—not judges—both the discretion and the responsibility to exercise their reasonable medical judgment, given the unique facts and circumstances of each patient. (italics theirs)”
Suuuure, assholes. But the new Texas law also says that the doctor can face extreme repercussions if they are later found to have erred in their diagnosis of the medical necessity of the abortion.
Absolute dishonest fuckery, IMO. And they know it, which is why they toss that ‘and the responsibility’ in there. It’s a reminder to doctors of the threat of life in prison.
eclare
@WaterGirl:
150 million supporters?
Anoniminous
@Burnspbesq:
We have the best Supreme Court money can buy.
WaterGirl
This looks like a good argument to me. I hope Weissman is correct that that Trump is kind of boxed in.
Ken
Trump is probably yelling at his lawyers right now, demanding that they appeal the timetable.
WaterGirl
@eclare: God, I hope not!
chopper
@Martin:
that baby was a crisis actor. FAKE
Misterpuff
@Captain C:
Sorry Clarence, Now that Trump is Dear Leader and bullet-proof, he doesn’t need your sorry ass and neither do his oligarchs. No Soup for YOU!
Baud
@eclare:
He’s counting Russians.
Jackie
TIFG is having a VERY BAD NO GOOD day 😁
Kathleen
@smith: Paxton’s next move – imprison all pregnant women in Texas.
Baud
@Kathleen:
They’re already imprisoned by being in Texas.
Kathleen
@smith: They’ll jail women while they’re having miscarriages.
Martin
@Burnspbesq: Wouldn’t the court want to put a definitive statement on this considering how badly it’s being weaponized?
Jackie
@WaterGirl: If SCOTUS decrees TIFG does NOT have executive privilege as a former president, Cannon will basically be stalling for naught, correct?
Jay C
@WaterGirl:
So who, exactly, is this “spokesperson”? David Dennison? Sir John Barron? Because this gibberish reads *exactly* like the frothing nonsense TFG loves to spout on his TS outlet…
WaterGirl
@Jackie: I don’t say this lightly, but with that news, I think Trump’s goose is well and truly cooked, perhaps even beginning to char.
And I am here for it.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: I would hope so. But that’s only true if one of these trials is completed well ahead of the election.
Kathleen
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: Cue wails and teeth gnashes from the Fascisterattis in the beltway political propaganda complex as they decry how Dems are politicizing the Supreme Court.
WaterGirl
@Jay C: Now that the gag order has been upheld, I wonder if Trump’s attorneys have told him they have to review everything before it goes out.
Or maybe he’s throwing such a fit that they are literally restraining him from posting on social media?
So they let him write a draft and they cleaned it up a bit and made the announcement?
edit: Trump may think he wants to be tossed in jail because that would make him more of a martyr, but I think he would lose his shit in the first 10 minutes in jail.
Shalimar
@New Deal democrat: I suspect the 3 Justices appointed by Trump are well aware that they owe their confirmations to Leonard Leo and Mitch McConnell. Trump did nothing but accept advice to pick them from the top of a Federalist-approved list.
Ruckus
@Goku (aka Amerikan Baka):
The thing is that common sense is only common when there are enough people that have some. And a lot of conservatives do not have any, they sold it for a couple of shinny beads because they weren’t about to use it if they had any. That seems to leave plenty for everyone else so maybe there is hope.
Gvg
@cmorenc: my recollection is there were only 2 judges available in that district and kind of case so the odds were rather bad.
Kathleen
@Baud: Touche!
Kathleen
@Kathleen: Oh wait. That’s Ohio.
hueyplong
@dmsilev: I had a case before a Lyndon Johnson appointee in LA in 2017.
pajaro
@WaterGirl:
You got it. The Supreme Court order is to require Trump’s reply about whether they should take the case on review, not on the merits of the case. Hopefully, they will decide relatively quickly whether to take it and also set a schedule to decide it quickly (as a much earlier Court did with the Nixon tapes case.)
prostratedragon
@Jackie: Whoo-hoo!
WaterGirl
@pajaro: Thanks for the confirmation!
cain
@RaflW:
Paxton has fucked the state of Texas. If there are a ton of people suing this poor woman for a non-crime – they would have fucked the landscape even more.
This also means that hospitals will seriously start looking at not having pregnancy care.
Nobody is going to move to a state that has that kind of hellscape and also you have to pay more taxes.
prostratedragon
@WaterGirl: Just like Jack’s petition is making him lose it now. ‘Tis a sad thing to have no grip on reality.
Matt McIrvin
@sab: Arithmetic may be useful but I never liked doing it. Probably why I was always fascinated by computing machines.
You know how people say “I was great at math until they started putting letters in it”? I was the opposite.
Ken
I wonder how “My entire legal strategy is to delay this forever” would play?
Quinerly
@hueyplong:
I chuckled. In 1989, I had my first Federal Court case. Eastern District of Missouri. Roy Harper was the judge. Appointed by President Truman in 1947. Long story about him…took Senate until 1949 to confirm.
Judge Harper was known for his dislike of female attorneys and Jewish attorneys. In my case, my opponent was a very strict Orthodox Jew. We had one conference with Judge Harper. We quickly settled the case.
Danielx
@WaterGirl:
Ketchup futures going through the roof…
Jackie
@Danielx: I have a feeling ketchup futures going through the roof will be ongoing for awhile!
Does anyone know TIFG’s must have brand?
Ken
@Jackie: I assume when he orders from McDonalds, he tells them to put in lots of extra ketchup packets. The best ketchup is the stuff you don’t have to pay for.
He may have bought a bottle of expensive ketchup once, and has a flunky squeeze the packets into the bottle. That way he can show off when he has guests.
frosty
@eclare: Real Analysis (probably a few steps beyond yours) is what kicked me out of being a math major. I couldn’t follow any of the proofs. Totally unintuitive, unlike Abstract Algebra.
It’s why I ended up as an engineer – the Dumb Jocks of STEM.