Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Not rolling over. fuck you, make me.

Make the republican party small enough to drown in a bathtub.

When they say they are pro-life, they do not mean yours.

Bad people in a position to do bad things will do bad things because they are bad people. End of story.

Hey hey, RFK, how many kids did you kill today?

I like political parties that aren’t owned by foreign adversaries.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

Some judge needs to shut this circus down soon.

Let there be snark.

You’re just a puppy masquerading as an old coot.

The republican speaker is a slippery little devil.

The worst democrat is better than the best republican.

We still have time to mess this up!

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Shut up, hissy kitty!

Following reporting rules is only for the little people, apparently.

Hot air and ill-informed banter

the 10% who apparently lack object permanence

You come for women, you’re gonna get your ass kicked.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

The real work of an opposition party is to hold the people in power accountable.

Books are my comfort food!

Democracy cannot function without a free press.

You are here: Home / Elections 2024 / 2024 Primaries / Late Night Open Thread: Cornel West Has Found A New ‘Constituency’

Late Night Open Thread: Cornel West Has Found A New ‘Constituency’

by | 126 Comments

This post is in: , ,

At the beginning of December, Forbes magazine ran a long, paywalled article on Cornel West’s personal money problems (four ex-wives, multiple children, hundreds of thousands in unpaid taxes). Other ‘major media’ outlets don’t seem to have picked up the thread, but LGM had what seems like a pretty comprehensive extract:

This sublime and funky and expensive love that I crave

Scott Lemieux’s conclusion:

… Obviously, if he paid his child support and his taxes his romantic life and how he spends his money is his business, but…that “if” is the rub. And it also makes one wonder who besides Harlan Crow is funding his current pro-Trump ratfucking efforts and how much of that money will find its way into his personal kick.

Just before the holidays, Politico shared some news…

… The independent candidate campaigned in Michigan this week to offer Arab American voters angry over the Israel-Hamas conflict a new political home in 2024. In Dearborn, a majority Arab American suburb of Detroit, West hosted several roundtable meetings with donors, local political organizers and Muslim community leaders, who wanted to hear West’s positions on Gaza.

The day on the campaign trail began with West promising he would ask the International Criminal Court to investigate potential war crimes committed by the Israel Defense Forces in a press release. During multiple roundtable discussions, the university professor called Israel an “apartheid state.” And West accused the U.S. government of supporting a “genocide” of the Palestinian people.

“I don’t call it the Palestinian problem, or the Palestinian question,” West said at a luncheon with Arab American donors and business leaders in Dearborn. “It’s a catastrophe.”

Losing just a fraction of Michigan voters who supported President Joe Biden in 2020 could scramble the presidential election in 2024. Biden won the state narrowly last cycle — and the margin was even closer when Donald Trump took it in 2016. And the Israel-Hamas war is opening a channel for West to collect unsatisfied voters…

The day capped off with a rally to support Gaza, where West was the keynote speaker, with 350 people in attendance, including activists from the local chapter of Jewish Voice for Peace and other local faith leaders, at the Greenfield Manor banquet hall.

“In Michigan, we voted for him last time, more than 140,000 Arab and Muslim people voted for him. This time, he will get zilch,” said Ali Fattom, a retired university professor, who is also now backing West…

Some voters acknowledged in their questions and interviews with POLITICO that their votes for West in Michigan were protest votes. Living in a swing state, there are higher stakes for every vote and thinner margins for victory. But making a statement on the war could be more important for some voters next November.

“We really need [to get] the message out,” Fattom said. “And the best messenger right now is Dr. West.”

I suspect more shoes will drop, depending on how much traction Dr. West’s latest bid for the spotlight draws…

Reader Interactions

126Comments

  2. 2.

    West of the Rockies

    I wish he and the other fake Dem creepster Kennedy would disappear and experience karma.

  4. 4.

    David ⛄ 🎅The Establishment🎄 🦌 🕎 Koch

    It’s gonna be a dog fight next Monday, the Wolverines versus the Huskies

  9. 9.

    TriassicSands

    @West of the Rockies:

    Cornel West has never impressed me. There is something about him that I, like you, never found convincing. I’ve seen him interviewed quite a few times and he never made a positive impression on me.

    Add to that his current vanity run for “president,” and my estimation of him has gone down considerably.

  10. 10.

    Thor Heyerdahl

    @dm: (source)

    In 1988 the KGB defector, Stanislav Levchenko, described an American mnemonic, Mice, which stands for “money”, “ideology”, “coercion/compromise” and “ego”. Susceptibility to these factors, he claimed, was a target’s key weakness that could be exploited.

  13. 13.

    gwangung

    Well, I sorta have to support UW…not only do I have a degree from there, but I help raise funds…for the athletic department.

    The guys and gals oughta have fun in Houston….

  15. 15.

    Damien

    While Cornell West is a bad joke, his plan to capitalize on the anger over Israel/Gaza is a legitimate threat. People are pissed about the war, especially young people who have a social media-level understanding of international (or any) politics.

    My own sister has argued that Israel should unilaterally withdraw to pre-1967 boundaries, and she’s pissed at me when I ask her why Israel or any country would do that.

    So yeah, dunno what to do about that hornets’ nest, but here we are.

  16. 16.

    HumboldtBlue

    @Jackie: ​ 

    My allegiance to the PAC is being a kid and watching Charles White and Warren Moon and Sam Cunningham and Dick Vermeil and John McKay and John Robinson from the East Coast and wondering how awesome it must be to live where it’s warm on Jan. 1 and the Rose Bowl is packed, and they have a fucking parade and everything!

  17. 17.

    piratedan

    @gwangung: congrats to them, but I do NOT understand why they played the Sugar Bowl (in New Orleans, central time zone) after the Rose Bowl (pacific time zone) and move the west coast team to the gulf coast to play a lower ranked seed within driving distance of their home field?

    Just all kinds of crap that spells $$$$ over everything else.

  18. 18.

    piratedan

    @Damien: it’s complicated and involves a shitpotfull of history and guilt (of those “Christian” nations) and it’s apparently not taught as history to anyone these days.  Many of these folks don’t know about the 1948 war, the 1967 war, the 1973 war, the black september attacks at the olympics.

    It’s not to say that Israel has been pristine in their foreign policy these last couple of decades but those that have no idea of what has passed have no idea on how we’ve arrived at the Now.

  20. 20.

    HumboldtBlue

    @piratedan: ​
    The Rose Bowl has traditionally started at 2 p.m. PST. All your other observations remain unanswered.​
     

    Also, what gwangung pointed out, the bowl games are now college football playoff games and the sites where they are played rotate through the preferred sites of college football.

  27. 27.

    piratedan

    @prostratedragon: granted, but they could have just as easily been No.1 the committee in their “tough, but fair – completely non-partisan” evaluation ranked Michigan as the best team in the country.

    Granted that they should decide it on a neutral field, but in college sports, certain big schools have a built in advantage.

  29. 29.

    BellyCat

    The only cure for college football (and its unquenchable impact on colleges) is to make it available in only two forms: in-person or by radio (or internet audio).

    ETA: The exploitation of unpaid student athletes for profit is little more than a form of highly remunerative slavery.

  30. 30.

    piratedan

    @Alison Rose: I hear you AR, and while I certainly don’t approve of what Netanyahu is doing and his reasons why (and I certainly don’t believe that the Biden administration is happy with it either tbh).  To cut them loose at this juncture would allow the entire region to fall further into chaos.  I have no doubt that if Biden walked away from Israel that the Iranians, Saudis, Syrian/Russians and perhaps even the Iraqis and Chinese would be happy to initiate additional proxy conflicts in the region.

    all of these young (seemingly altruistic) folks seem to think that it’s easy to separate Palestinians from Hamas or to fully grasp what Hamas (or even Hezbollah) are all about.  I hate the idea  that Netanyahu is getting additional mileage out of the conflict as both his aims and those of Hamas feed upon each other, each of them using the other as justification for what they do.

  32. 32.

    Burnspbesq

    Can West possibly not understand that his reward for installing Trump as dictator will be a long stint in Federal prison on fictitious charges?

  34. 34.

    David ⛄ 🎅The Establishment🎄 🦌 🕎 Koch

    Big Ten is going to be the greatest conference: Penn St vs UCLA, Ohio St. vs Ducks, Trojans vs Spartans, Iowa vs Huskies, Cornhuskers vs Hoosiers

  36. 36.

    Ksmiami

    I hope the Arab Americans who abandon Biden enjoy being deported under Trump. This is the dumbest movement ever.

  37. 37.

    wjca

    @BellyCat: The only cure for college football (and its unquenchable impact on colleges) is to make it available in only two forms: in-person or by radio (or internet audio).

    Alternatively, a) require the players to be paid (preferably a substantial percentage of what the college makes off of football) plus b) make the colleges liable for (lifetime) medical care for all injuries, including brain damage, sustained by the players, and c) for earnings loss from those injuries (maybe the difference between average graduate’s earnings and each ex-player’s earnings).

    At this point, the only language the colleges will understand when it comes to football is money and lots of it.  When they try (as they surely will) to buy insurance to cover the costs of b) and c), it will probably be a shock.  Might also discourage the enthusiasm for high school football, which can only be a good thing for the kids.

  38. 38.

    bjacques

    @Thor Heyerdahl: as I recall, that defector or someone else around that time lamented that “M” was playing a bigger role these days. And it certainly must for Brother West.

     

    It might not hurt to hold a press conference and deploy leaks to the effect that supporting Israel != supporting Bibi, it’s to keep the Middle East from blowing up, and things will change after the shooting dies down.

  39. 39.

    wjca

    @piratedan: To cut them loose at this juncture would allow the entire region to fall further into chaos.

    I’m just not seeing that.  Israel is, realistically, the regional superpower.  Sure, the backing of the US helps their deterance.  But it’s not really critical.

    And less so with each passing year. The governments of neighboring countries have moved far in normalizing relations (i.e. have accepted Israel’s existance).  Having a bunch of them reverse course at the same time, which is what it would take to really threaten Israel, isn’t realistic.  I mean, can you see Iran and Saudi Arabia forming an alliance for any reason?  Especially one where whoever attacks first is looking at the other cheerfully stabbing them in the back; sitting back and watching Israel take down their rival. 

  40. 40.

    Jay

    I read a history about that area of the Middle East. Can’t remember the title, other than it had Sword in it. It started off with the end of the last Jewish Kingdom, which was in a coastal city in Yemen. It was toppled by a combined Christian Army from Ethiopia and the new Muslim fiefdoms, ostensibly because of the rape and murder of Christian Virgins, ( yeah, once upon a time), by the King’s forces.

    Basically, as every wave of conquors rode across the area, some “converted”, some didn’t.

    Very few “invaders” ever came to dominate, population wise. Their politics and religion did.

    Palestine has been a collection of city states, some Jewish, a colony of Egypt, a Greek dominated area, then Roman, then Muslim, then Christian, then Muslim, then Ottoman,………..

    Until the 1920’s, most of the people there were the people that had always been there, just different religions based on when and to which invader’s system they had converted to, at the time.

  41. 41.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @piratedan:

    all of these young (seemingly altruistic) folks seem to think that it’s easy to separate Palestinians from Hamas or to fully grasp what Hamas (or even Hezbollah) are all about.

    I have heard them.  They believe Hamas is a legitimate organization rebelling against an occupier and only Israel commits war crimes.  They are as facts-immune to how utterly evil Hamas’ actions and intentions are as conservatives are to their policies not achieving their stated goals.  That Israel cannot just shrug and ignore the October 7th attack as their just desserts is unimaginable to these kids.

    I say this as someone who believes Netenyahu is an evil son of a bitch who does indeed want genocide, and who has completely fucked the response with his cruelty.

  42. 42.

    Anne Laurie

    @Burnspbesq: Can West possibly not understand that his reward for installing Trump as dictator will be a long stint in Federal prison on fictitious charges?

    But that can’t happen until *next* January… and meanwhile West has a whole new platform.  I suspect that, like many ‘visionaries’, he’s convinced himself that worse comes to worst, the horse might learn to talk!

  43. 43.

    Anne Laurie

    @Ksmiami: Most of these ‘protest voters’, I suspect, will not actually vote for Trump come November.  There’s ten months for them to find reasons to change their minds… especially since voting is a private matter, unlike shooting one’s mouth off for diner-diving pundits.

  44. 44.

    Damien

    @Frankensteinbeck: I keep hearing how “only the US and Israel consider Hamas a terrorist organization” and “Hamas updated its charter in 2017 to say they actually DON’T want to kill all Jews, just Zionists!” I even saw some comments about how Israel was never attacked by Palestine in 1948 because they never had an army. Also apparently this isn’t a war at all only and explicitly a genocide, Israel actually killed hundreds of the supposed casualties of 10/8, and Biden is doing nothing but endorsing genocide because he was the second highest-paid politician by AIPAC

     

    @clay: I guess they expect Biden cut Israel loose entirely.

    I really don’t know, but I’m just saying that this threat isn’t totally made up. Young people with zero depth to their foreign policy opinions are big mad about this extremely lopsided war that they don’t think Hamas started.

  45. 45.

    Baud

    @Ksmiami:

    They won’t be deported since they are citizens.

    What I think will happen is that Trump will give Bibi permission to annex all Palestinian territory, which Bibi will do, and that will be the end of it for the Palestinians.

  46. 46.

    Baud

    @Damien:

    Some people will have fallen so far down the rabbit hole as to be permanently lost.  Sad, but little we can do about it except to cut our losses.

  48. 48.

    Tony Jay

    It’s the same old same old. People are quite legitimately angry that their country is supporting and funding the slaughter in Gaza, and will only have that anger intensified by the dismissive implication that they just don’t understand the issue/have antisemitic attitudes/want to pal around with terrorists. That’s perfectly normal human behaviour and exactly what you’d expect.

    Nevertheless, I’d still bet huge chests of gold coins that the vast majority of them will swallow that anger in November to vote against Trump. In the meantime the News Media will continue to ZOMG!!! at the slightest possibility that Biden could lose states to Trump and gleefully nutpick ‘local experts’ like Ali Fattom to mouth the words they want their readers to hear. That’s perfectly normal Media behaviour and exactly what you’d expect

    Hell, I think that the US policy towards Israel/Palestine is appalling and will go down in history as a shameful episode, but if I was an American there’s no doubt whatsoever how I’d vote. Broken glass, volcanic stones, etc.

    However I’d still probably spend the time between now and the election telling all of the people airily dismissing my disgust at the murder of civilians as a cover story for wanting Israel burnt off the map to go and swivel on a rusty, serrated dildo. That’s also perfectly normal me behaviour and exactly what you’d expect.

    Politics. It’s what we’re left with since ‘they’ banned compulsory brainwashing.

  49. 49.

    Geminid

    @wjca: I basically support President Biden’s policies here, but I’ll point out that U.S. does have the option of reducing our resupply of weapons and munitions to Israel. The Israelis could not maintain the intense tempo of their air and ground offensives in Gaza without the munitions we have been airlifting and shipping to them since October 7.

    So I think people denouncing U.S. material support of Israel have good reasons to, even though I disagree with them. The counter-argument is that Israel has a legitimate right to attack Hamas and try to end its 14 year rule over Gaza. Also, that Gazans- or at least those who survive- will be better off without Hamas ruling them.

    One problem here is that Israelis goes beyond self defense when they use the munitions we supply them to take veangeance on Palestinian civilians. So far, we have pressed them publically and privately to end what President Biden has calles “indiscriminate” bombing of civilians.

    Our private efforts may be more blunt. At least, there was a story last week that when Defense Minister Gallant briefed other ministers on a phone call he had with Secretary Blinken, Gallant told them that some requested shipments might not be forthcoming, and not because of “technical” reasons. That is, we have the munitions but may choose not to ship them.

  50. 50.

    Glory b

    @Ksmiami: It is. Whoever I’m in on one of these discussions on social media, my response and question is this: If the US withdraws from Israel, it will immediately be attacked by the enemies that surround it, Iran, the Houthis, etc.

    There would be all out war in the Middle East, quite possibly resulting in Bib using the nukes we pretend they don’t have. How is this an improvement for the Palestinians?

    They literally NEVER have an answer to that question. They then pivot to not voting because Biden didn’t give them M4A, or forgive their student loans, or that young people don’t have the resources to buy houses.

    They seem adamant that there is NOTHING Biden can do to win their vote, and most of them will vote for Cornel West.

    Unlike many of you, I never thought the kids would be alright.  Too many of them, for all their education, seem to have no idea of how Madisonian democracy works & don’t believe a boomer could teach them anything.

    I believe there’s no convincing them & the Dems would do better to appeal to independents (i.e., squishy Republicans).

  51. 51.

    Geminid

    One good piece of Mideast news this weekend was something that didn’t happen. On December 31, U.S. helicopters destroyed three speedboats off of Yemen, killing the crews.. We say they were attacking a Maersk container ship, and then opened fire on the helicopters sent to warn them off. A Houthi spokesman insisted that their naval vessels were conducting routine operations intended to ensure maritime safety when the helicopters attacked.

    Anyway, on New Year’s Eve a British newspaper claimed that within hours the Defense Ministry would brief reporters on a large set of air attacks the UK, the U.S  and a third country (France?) were about to unleash upon Houthis forces in Yemen. But the attacks never happened, or at least haven’t yet.

  53. 53.

    Geminid

    @Tony Jay: How has British public opinion broken on this war? Would you care to estimate the proportions of people who are backing Israel, backing the Palestinians, or are indifferent?

  55. 55.

    Jay

    I have a kafaara,

    I love it.

    I have for years, worn it as a scarf.

    It was woven for me by the mother who made my bread, when I was doing work for UNESCO, and her daughters, who scared the shit out of me, because they were so fierce.

    It’s not Palestinian, it’s Royjovan. Northern Kurdish Syrian.

    Last time I wore it, I was assaulted.

    It did not turn out well for my assailant.

    My attacker was not some Israel supporter, but instead, based on his tattoos, a full blown NAZI. Really, #1488?

  56. 56.

    p.a.

    Is British-Irish history from the time of Henry VIII an acceptable analogy?  Ethnic & religious conflict between dominant & inferior powers?  Not a hopeful thought.  Centuries of conflict.

    England-France conflicts lasted centuries from medieval times, but a conflict of equals.

    France-HRE/Germany too.

    My Eurocentric knowledge base is showing…

  59. 59.

    Geminid

    @Baud: The was an article in Eurasia Report* about this situation.The author said that recruiting for the Houthi”s Anssarula(sp?) militia had increased greatly since they it began shooting rockets and drones at Israel. Young men are even coming from the large portion of Yemen not controlled by the Houthis to join the fight. The author predicted that U.S. airstrikes would spur more people to join the Houthi cause. This may be one reason Saudi Arabia is urging restraint here, both to the U.S. and to the Houthis and their Iranian weapons providers.

    *Eurasia Report is published by the Jamestown Institute. It seems to have a conservative bias, but they do serious reporting on a lot of conflicts that are not reported so well by other sites.

  60. 60.

    Betty Cracker

    @Tony Jay: & @Geminid: Y’all are coming at this issue from different angles but both make good points, IMO. That stands out in a thread where many lawns are being defended against youthful incursion, so thank you! ;-)

  62. 62.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @HumboldtBlue: Maybe they’re making money for now but…IDK how this’ll work out long term. I hardly watched a minute of college football this year. Part of that is I’m a Michigan State fan and they were awful but I used to watch their games faithfully for decades and also tune in to a non trivial number of other mostly Big Ten games. I think more and more people are tuning out because of the changing landscape and long term, how do they keep growing revenue if fewer people are interested in watching?

    I still have a soft spot for college basketball but football is more drastically affected by conference realignment/expansion because the teams can only play like 11 regular season games a year. That will make football schedules ridiculously unbalanced.

  63. 63.

    gene108

    @Burnspbesq:

    If the alumni don’t care (and they won’t), why should casual fans?

    The average alumni doesn’t have the money to influence anything. This is about tens to hundreds of millions of dollars in T.V. revenue per year between conferences, networks, and advertisers that freezes out everyone else.

    Expansion is what fans have to suck up and hope their team doesn’t get left behind when the CFB Premier League or whatever is formed and locks in all the TV revenue for two to three dozen schools.

  64. 64.

    Geminid

    @Baud: For now, the US has sent three destroyers and the Bataan, which can carry up to 20 fighter jets, to replace the Ford. The carrier Harry S. Truman has just finished 10 months of refitting and should be ready to deploy to the Mediterranean by February if not before.

    Then, the US will have two full-sized carriers in the area again, at least until the Eisenhower returns to Norfolk. It deployed at the beginning of October.

  66. 66.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Its too bad, because last year Yemen finally had a ceasefire that curtailed its 10-year civil war. One effect of the Houthi’s decision to join the Gaza war from a distance may be a resumption of fighting in Yemen. That’s another factor inhibiting US action.

  68. 68.

    Gvg

    @BellyCat: highly renumerated is NOT slavery. College athletes all make choices. It’s exploitive, but really not at all,like slavery. Use some other analogy.

    We have a resurgence of coverup history about slavery now, so we really can’t afford to give any cover to how bad that is, ever.

    College athletics has some resemblance to company towns but a lot of it is advertising gone mad with a bunch of other stuff mixed in. Including habits, momentum and just not thinking.

  69. 69.

    Nukular Biskits

    Good mornin’, y’all!

    Interesting intertwinement of three separate threads here: Cornel West, college football and the Israeli/Hamas war.

    My $.02 on what’s happening in Gaza and the Biden Administration’s position?  POTUS is mostly doing a pretty fair job of walking a very fine line here.  He’s publicly (and, according to reports, privately) stated the Israeli government should exercise restraint but continue to support Israeli’s right to exist and self defense.

    Call me a conspiracy theorist but Netanyahu’s continue assault on Gaza and the horrific civilian casualty count is a feature, not a bug, as far as rightwing Israelis are concerned.  Bouncing the rubble and forcing Palestinian civilians to continue to flee for their lives while making it damned near impossible for the international community to provide humanitarian assistance does constitute war crimes, IMHO.  This is by no means an defense of Hamas, which is deservedly designated as a terrorist organization and should receive no quarter.  The problem is that you can’t militarily defeat such an organization which is deliberately using civilians as shields without going Old Testament on the entire population, which is what the IDF appears to be doing.  And that is tantamount to genocide.

    I have no answers but it’s beyond stupid to not vote for Biden in November because he won’t wave a magic wand to stop the fighting.  See also The Green Lantern Theory of the Presidency

  72. 72.

    daveNYC

    The problem is that Biden’s support for Israel is far above and beyond whatever would be required to keep this conflict contained.  Having the Navy provide air defense in the Red Sea or moving carrier groups into the Eastern Med and Persian Gulf as a warning for everyone to stay cool is one thing.  Opening up the emergency stash of weapons in Israel and bypassing Congress to ensure that the weapons keep flowing to a government that is actively talking about ethnically cleansing Gaza (Smotrich) while dropping 2,000 pound bombs and using artillery in a densely populated urban environment is just on another level entirely.

    Trump would be worse, obviously, but that’s not the most compelling argument to make when you’re talking to someone who thinks that Israel is committing genocide and the USA is helping them do it.  Especially since Biden appears to be getting little to no concessions from the Israeli government, despite the level of support they’ve been getting.  It’s going to get even more absurd when Bibi and the rest of his government start openly supporting Trump’s re-election campaign and Biden will, likely, just stand there and take it.  Biden has been pretty good on foreign policy generally, but the Gaza conflict has been a debacle.

  73. 73.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Baud:

    International politics makes for very strange bedfellows.

    I have long had an issue with successive US governments taking a either a “no questions asked” approach to Israel’s treatment of Palestinians or outright defense of IDF actions that, were they committed by someone other than the IDF, we’d denounce.  Having said that, however, outright disengagement from Israel or a withdrawal of military support would not end well at all.

    Again, I have no good answers.

  74. 74.

    What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?

    @BellyCat: Or give free access to the TV broadcasts – let any station that wants to pick up the official broadcast for free. It would severely reduce the TV revenue which would mean there wasn’t a lot of money in it for coaches, athletic departments, conferences or the NCAA.

     

    @wjca: That’s what should have happened about 3 decades ago when coaching salaries started their epic climb. I know late in his career Michigan gave Bo Schembechler a raise that put him at the top of the college football pay scale and that raise got him like $300K a year, roughly equivalent to a half million today. I bet the coaches at directional Universities make multiples of that these days.

    One issue with paying players is I’m not sure that under Title IX they wouldn’t have to pay an equivalent amount to women athletes. Also most of that revenue that could go to players is currently used to support other scholarship sports that don’t generate revenue. There are ways around that second issue.and even the first isn’t insurmountable. The other way to go is to cap coaching salaries along with the salaries of the conference big wigs and NCAA executives. If everyone else is making modest amounts of money it’s not so unseemly for the players to be amateurs.

  76. 76.

    RevRick

    @Jackie: The PAC 10 was destroyed the moment UCLA and USC left. They were the big market teams that provided the heft needed for the TV contracts, which underwrite college football. Once those two LA teams abandoned the conference it was inevitable that the rest would seek refuge in the four remaining power conferences or see their teams become irrelevant.

  78. 78.

    Tony Jay

    @Geminid:

    It’s hard to tell, since the major Media providers are very reluctant (for their own reasons) to rock the boat with opinion polls while both major parties are effectively in lockstep behind whatever (the U.S. tells them its okay to support) the Israelis deciding to do.

    OTOH, the marches in support of Palestinian Lives Mattering have been huge and are ongoing, while the pro-Israel demonstrations have been considerably smaller, which I’d put down to a mix of the political situation (most supporters of Israel are already getting what they want) and the very obvious and inconvenient pro-Israel leanings of the Far-Right.

    That neo-Nazi riot in London following the peaceful PLM March a few weeks ago had to have been intensely embarrassing for those trying to equate pro-PLM with antisemitism, considering who their own fellow travellers are. It hasn’t stopped the usual lobby-funded suspects from trying to smear support for Palestinian civilians as 100% JewHate, but it’s not 2017/9 anymore, and with the traditional media no longer needing to promote them as ‘non-partisan experts’ on the topic they’re pretty much relegated to their pre-Corbyn status as single-issue diatribalists.

    From what I have seen opinion-wise it appears that the Great British Middle are pretty much disgusted with the civilian bloodshed Israel are unleashing and are somewhere on the scale between Not In Our Name and Not Our Problem, and would much rather the British Government (and Government in waiting) either shut up about the topic or join with Ireland and Spain in forthrightly condemning Israeli atrocities when they occur. They certainly don’t see the policy of supporting the bombing of civilian areas while shedding fake tears over civilian casualties as anything to be proud of, not in any numbers.

    The Left, of course, are pretty much solidly in favour of a ceasefire and an end to backing apartheid, while the Right see another Culture War issue to sell to their voters through a montage of brown corpses with triumphant music. That the current nu-New Labour mob are eager to vote-hunt amongst the latter while spitting at the former is just another wedge in the not-Tory electorate that I’d expect to see exploited later this year.

    It’s very noticeable how uncomfortable the Media are with the topic. They only get that way when they know they’re pushing the Gaslight button harder than their credibility allows, and it’s hurting them.

  79. 79.

    trnc

    @Damien: While Cornell West is a bad joke, his plan to capitalize on the anger over Israel/Gaza is a legitimate threat. People are pissed about the war, especially young people who have a social media-level understanding of international (or any) politics.

    I wish Biden weren’t so pro-Israel while Israel takes actions like this, but none of us have the luxury of getting a single issue president. Also, on this single issue, how is DT better than Biden (since we know that West serves only as a Biden spoiler)?

  80. 80.

    Kay

    @Ksmiami:

    I hope the Arab Americans who abandon Biden enjoy being deported under Trump. This is the dumbest movement ever.

    I think they’re legitimately angry. The Biden Administration has not been publicly supportive enough the human rights of Palestinian civilians (words matter) and firm enough with Israel that they need to stop bombing hospitals and schools. How do I know they haven’t been firm enough? Because Israel is still doing it. I don’t actually care if they are very firm “behind the scenes”- it obviously isn’t effective.
    However- I think 140,000 is an exaggeration of their voter clout, but I think Biden should plan on losing 50,000 Muslim and/or Arabs in MI and it will end up being closer to 20,000. I think there’s an overestimate about how closely MI Arab Americans are aligned with issues abroad. They’ve been here for generations now. They’re Americans.
    This is a VERY Democratic/liberal error by the way. We consistently overestimate how various immigrant groups align with or identify with their origin countries. Some will absolutely sit this out because they align with or identify with Palestinians but most of them won’t.
    I also think “Biden can’t DO anything!” is a lousy argument. If he really “can’t do anything” in foreign policy then we don’t need a President who has experience and skill in the area and we also shouldn’t be crediting him with foreign policy successes, because those were just luck or the inexorable movement of the tides or something.

  81. 81.

    Tony Jay

    @Betty Cracker:

    It’s a complicated issue where no side is ‘in the right’, the only easy options are the worst ones, and the approved narrative out there in Medialand does no one any favours.

    Bound to lead to disagreements. But other than the inhuman wretchedness of Starship De Santis, what doesn’t?

  82. 82.

    Geminid

    @Baud: Netanyahu is clearly trying to use this war to salvage his political reputation. At the same time, the predominately Jewish parties that make up most of the opposition support the basic war aim of ending Hamas control og Gaza.

    The PM’s political efforts do not seem to be working. Polling of Israelis consistently shows support for his coalition has dropped and not recovered.

    Polling in Israel generally asks about support for each party as if there was about to be an election. A recent poll showed Likud dropping from its current 32 Knesset members to 16. Support for its 3 coalition partners has dropped also, and its 64-56* Knesset majority would fall to a 75-45 minority after new elections.

    The big question here is, when will there be new elections? By statute, the government does not have to call a new election until 2026, but Israeli observers I’ve followed seem fairly sure that this government will break up sooner rather than later, and that new elections will likely take place by Spring.

    *Netanyahu’s original 4-party coalition had a 64-56 majority when it took power a year ago. The addition of Benny Gantz’s 12 member party to a “unity government” on October 12 was an emergency measure, with the expectation that Gantz will pull his party’s support for the government when the emergency ends.

    The same poll that showed Likud falling from 32 to 16 MK after a new election showed Gantz’s aptly-named “National Unity” party going from 12 MKs to 38.

  85. 85.

    Kay

    I follow Elissa Slotkin on social media (US House, MI, running for US Senate) and she seems to be deliberately reaching out to Arab and/or Muslim Americans in MI on this issue. So I think it’s safe to say Democrats see losing this group’s support in MI as a real threat.

    I feel as if there’s a dawning realization this is going to be a real stain on the Biden Administration – they have to be worried that they will be judged as being on the “wrong side” of a humanitarian disaster as the full story of devastation comes out over the next years.

  87. 87.

    Baud

    @Manyakitty:

    I’m not so sure. I think the world, including the Arab world, is tired of the conflict and, after an initial protest, will write the issue off. The Palestinians aren’t very popular in the Arab states. No one talks about Tibet anymore either. 

    But who knows?  All predictions, including mine, are bunk.

  89. 89.

    Geminid

    @Baud: The public pressure for new elections will be too intense to withstand for 12 months, I think. Once Gantz pulls his support this government will be living on borrowed time.

    One factor is that Netanyahu’s two Ultra-Orthodox partners are projected to come out fine in a new election. Their voters do what the rabbis tell them. Those two parties might decide they are better off separating from the unpopular Netanyahu.

    Also, some Likud members might decide they might as well take their licking at the polls now, so they can start rebuilding their party without Netanyahu. They already would have ditched him if he hadn’t won an unexpected majority in the November, 2020 election.

  91. 91.

    daveNYC

    The problem with the idea that Bibi’s coalition is so unpopular that they will be tossed out sooner rather than later is that the people who would be responsible for calling elections sooner rather than in 2026 are the same people who would be tossed out.  Shas or UTJ might pull the trigger since their voters are mostly locked into them, but even then that’s a big risk.

    This government could easily keep limping along until 2026 just because there’s no way to stop them and the alternative for those in power is not being in power.  Maybe public protests or strikes could get the job done, but that’s not likely as long as the war is ongoing, which is one hell of a perverse incentive.

  92. 92.

    Geminid

    @Kay: I’m curious, how do you assess the quality of Rep. Slotkin’s outreach? It’s potential effectiveness?

  93. 93.

    Tony G

    @Damien: But, of course, the slogan “From the river to the sea …” doesn’t mean pre-1967 boundaries.  It means pre-1948 boundaries, i.e. Israel ceases to exist.  That is, of course, the stated goal of Hamas, with “free Palestine” then being governed by Hamas as an Islamic state, in which most or all of the Jews would be expelled or killed.  If the people chanting that slogan want that outcome then they should say so, but I suspect that much of it is just mindlessly repeating slogans.  I attended some demonstrations (about very different issues) when I was a youth several decades ago.  Then I decided that chanting slogans like a pep rally wasn’t my idea of a useful way to spend time.

  94. 94.

    Kay

    @Geminid:

    I don’t really but my point is she’s doing it. Her campaigns are famous for being “data based” too. She collects lots and lots of voter info and runs a really “smart”campaign. I think if she’s reaching out to Arab American Michiganders on this issue she’s doing that for a reason. Her district is Right leaning. She doesn’t have easy races.

    There are other forces at play here too. I think Arab Americans in Michigan are considered “socially conservative” Democrats so Democrats have to do outreach on those issues, too.

    I don’t think fucking Cornell West knows a thing about any of that. He’s a grifter dilettante, like RFK Jr. I don’t care what he says.

  95. 95.

    RevRick

    @TriassicSands: Cornel West and Robert Kennedy Jr. seem to have gone on a similar psychological arc.
    Every healthy, functioning society needs its gadflies and critics. They remind us that all is not well and that we can do better. Most never get beyond local recognition, alternately admired and being annoyed with. Some become royal pests for local officials. But a few attain recognition beyond their area or even state, because they have found national platforms. But there’s a fine line between being a critic/gadfly and being a crank.
    With a national platform comes a corresponding inflation of ego. People are paying attention to me. My words are having an impact. They are hitting home. But the thing about the critic/ gadfly’s words is that they quickly become tiresome. Others react, “Okay, we’ve heard what you have to say and we are trying to figure out what to do. You have a point, but don’t belabor it.”
    But the thing about most critics/ gadflies is they are often short on patience. They have identified an issue and want it fixed now. With West it was a matter of racial justice. With Kennedy it began with the plight of the poor losing access to heating and cooling. The fierce urgency of the now can easily transform into the need to turn the outrage meter up to 11. So they up the ante. But that provokes a reaction of rejection and dismissal. People turn off being scolded.
    Which, of course, pushes the one who was originally a gadfly off the rails. They start generating conspiracy theories and often descend into the realm of crackpot.
    American history is littered with its share of crackpots who have achieved some measure of notoriety. Carrie Nation comes to mind. So does free love advocate John Humphrey Noyes of the Oneida community. Or John Brown.

  96. 96.

    Geminid

     

     

    @daveNYC: The factors that you cite are real, and yet a lot of Israelis believe that this government will break up early despite them. Some of these seem to be well-grounded and experienced observers of their nation’s politics.

  97. 97.

    SteveinPHX

    @Nukular Biskits: “I have no answers but it’s beyond stupid to not vote for Biden in November because he won’t wave a magic wand to stop the fighting.” No magic wands here.

    My “pie in the sky” hope is that something will force these sides to negotiate a two-state solution. Hope I live long enuf.

  98. 98.

    Geminid

    @Kay: Well, as long as Rep. Slotkins outreach comes across as sincere I guess it can’t hurt. Ed. The important thing is that Arab Americans feel they are being respected.

  99. 99.

    daveNYC

    @Geminid: The one Israeli I know here certainly believes that the government won’t last very long.  But even though the government is incredibly unpopular there still needs to be someone in it willing to bring it down for elections to happen.  Again, Shas and UTJ are the best options there, but they’d need to be willing to risk losing power to do so.

    Hell, the UK is on the third PM with a ludicrously unpopular government at the moment, and the only reason that an early election are being talked about is because they’d have to have an election later this year anyway.  I don’t see any reason why the Israeli government couldn’t keep chugging along no matter how many people hate them.  Especially as long as the fighting continues.  That’s just an easy reason to grab onto for not holding elections.

  100. 100.

    Ksmiami

    @Baud: Trump has already stated he will build camps and I promise you citizens who look different will end up in them as much as recent migrants

  101. 101.

    Ksmiami

    @Kay: The next Trump administration will be absolutely devastating to the actual Arab-American community in ways we can’t even imagine so if the Dearborn community is willing to toss in their lot with that, whatever horrors they face post 24 won’t be my problem- they voted as sheep for a wolf.

  102. 102.

    Geminid

    @daveNYC: Shas and the UTJ  won’t neccesarily be excluded from the next government. Benny Gantz can promise them some cabinet posts, and that Avigdor Lieberman won’t impose another tax on disposable plates and utensils.

    But if Shas and UTJ try to gut it out with Netanyahu they may be excluded when a new government finally forms. They have a lot to lose under that scenario, and cheap sporks are the least of it.

  103. 103.

    JML

    Oddly, West’s embrace of the Arab-American constituency in MI as a naked way to ratfuck Biden might be a good thing: Becoming the target of a charlatan can have a significant effect in clarifying reality. “Wait, our options are a) this no-hope clown who is running for president because Obama wasn’t nice enough to him and he’s broke because he screws around and doesn’t pay his taxes or child support, b) an evil bastard who would deport us all if given a chance, or c) Joe Biden, who we’re mad at because he’s not selling out one part of his coalition for us, but still cares about our community.”

    I try to stay out of the Israel-Gaza insanity, because most of the time the people who talk about it aren’t really interested in talking but instead screaming simplistic slogans and making declarations that are bereft of nuance. It does my heart and mind good to see so many BJers talking about the complexities of situation in the Middle East, with Israel, and Palestine and your rejection of the “solutions” that are simple, neat, and wrong. (and will end up with genocidal actions against someone)

  104. 104.

    Geminid

    @daveNYC: Unless there is a settlement along the lines lroposed by the Saudis and Egyptians, the fighting in Gaza could continue for months. But it will likely move into a lower gear before too long, probably by the end of this month.

    Gaza will still be a big problem for Israel then, but it won’t be an emergency. That’s when there will be movement on the political side, I think, even if the war is still ongoing.

  105. 105.

    Nukular Biskits

    @Geminid:

    I suspect this thread is mostly dead, but I wanted to follow up on what you said to daveNYC.

    Another issue that isn’t being addressed is what is to be the status of Gaza after the IDF ceases military operations?  Netanyahu is on record, I believe, in refusing to allow the PLO to govern Gaza and obviously Hamas running the strip is a non-starter.  So … what happens then?  Military occupation?  Pulling out with no plan will result in hundreds of thousands of people suffering even more than they are now and create yet another incubator for extremism.

  106. 106.

    daveNYC

    @Nukular Biskits: The government’s finance minister has outright stated that he wants to ‘encourage’ emigration out of Gaza and the re-establishment of settlements there.  While one can certainly argue that the situation is complex and there are no easy answers, I’m pretty sure that Smotrich’s idea is bad and everyone who supports it should feel bad.

    And the Israel-Palestine problem isn’t that complex, at least as far as these things go.  The problem is that any solution that would be acceptable to the Palestinians would have to involve the removal of no small number (if not all) of the West Bank settlements, which is something that nobody in Israel wants to think about dealing with, either because they just don’t want to lose the settlements or because they don’t want to have to deal with what the 200k armed assholes will do if someone suggests they leave.

  107. 107.

    Geminid

    @Nukular Biskits: Netanyahu says a lot of things, but the three man War Cabinet makes policy. Reports are that they are starting to discuss the subject now.

    The Saudis and Egyptians have floated realistic plans for ending this war that seem to track American policy. The Saudi plan reportedly has four steps,starting with Hamas leaders and fighters being evacuated to Algeria, much as PLO forces were evacuated from Lebanon to Tunisia in the early 1980s. This phase would include the release of (surviving) hostages.

    Second, Hamas and the IDF would be replaced by a peacekeeping force under a Security Council mandate. Third, a “technocratic” government would be set up to administer Gaza.

    The fourth step would be to turn the Gaza Strip over to the Palestinian Authority, after four years. Evidently, the Saudis don’t believe the PA is up to the task now but can be with a certain amount of work.

    When this proposal was reported a couple weeks ago, the reactions I saw on Israeli Twitter ranged from “No way! We have to kill those people, not exile them to Algeria,” to “Do it! It will save our soldiers’ lives.”

    There are negotiations going on in Egypt that could eventually lead to this result. For now, though the parties are talking about another “pause,” hopefully of longer duration than the last one.

  108. 108.

    Juju

    @Damien: How do these youngsters think Trump would handle the situation in Gaza if he became president again?  I ask because Trump is so well known for his pro Palestinian point of view because like the Saudis they have so much money and can line his pockets so he’d be willing to do anything for them. I don’t know the sarcasm font, or I’d use it.

  109. 109.

    Bokonon

    @Burnspbesq: Can West possibly not understand that his reward for installing Trump as dictator will be a long stint in Federal prison on fictitious charges?

    Not if West continues to serve as a useful rodeo clown for the GOP he won’t.  If you are useful to the party, in terms of donations or services rendered, then they won’t go after you (unless a big donor demands it).

    Based on some personal experiences.

  110. 110.

    Barry

    @Burnspbesq: “Can West possibly not understand that his reward for installing Trump as dictator will be a long stint in Federal prison on fictitious charges?”

     

    He’s been a ‘made man’ for a long time; like others, he doesn’t believe that serious sh@t could happen to him.

    r

  112. 112.

    Paul in KY

    @piratedan: I think the Number 1 seed gets to play earlier, so they get a bit more rest time. Also, The Rose Bowl had the game involving #1 seed. That’s my theory.

  113. 113.

    Paul in KY

    @wjca: Israel, for good or ill, is not going anywhere. IMO, anyone on the Palestinian side needs to understand this. There is no driving Israel into the sea. Not. Gonna. Happen.

  114. 114.

    Paul in KY

    @Glory b: Israel would not be immediately attacked by the Arab nations. They’ve had their asses whupped enough to know not to do that.

  115. 115.

    Paul in KY

    @daveNYC: I just don’t think you can be seen in US politics (right now) as being ‘understanding’ or ‘philosophical’ about an organization (Hamas) that engages in the type of non-military terrorism it seems to revel in.

    A modern and non-barbaric state has to be completely against such an organization, as it will do nothing to support any kind of realistic peace in the area.

  116. 116.

    Paul in KY

    @Manyakitty: Israel could go ahead and do what Baud surmised. The Arab regimes would scream and holler, but there would be no declared shooting war against Israel. They’ve been whupped enough.

  117. 117.

    Paul in KY

    @Tony G: IMO, if the Palestinians ever get serious about getting their own honest-to-God real state, they must exterminate Hamas (as it now exists) themselves.

  118. 118.

    Another Scott

    @Baud:

    What I think will happen is that Trump will give Bibi permission to annex all Palestinian territory, which Bibi will do, and that will be the end of it for the Palestinians.

    But the 2M Gazans sort of argue against annexation, no? He would only annex Gaza if he could push the people into Egypt. And Egypt will NOPE right out of that. Otherwise, annexation implies letting the people there have a say (of some sort) in Israeli politics (because it’s now part of Israel) and there’s no way he’s going to allow that. Plus, he doesn’t want to rebuild the place – he wants to punish them.

    It looks like Bibi plans on some sort of new IDF occupation of Gaza. To what extent and for how long is anyone’s guess.

    He (and his war cabinet) is/are really doing all of this the stupidest way possible for Israel’s long-term survival in a peaceful neighborhood.

    My $0.02.

    Cheers,
    Scott.

  119. 119.

    Geminid

    @Another Scott: Netanyahu has one out of three votes in the War Cabinet, and rght now he is speaking for himself, He’s trying to shape the decision, but the War Cabinet has not made it. In fact, reports are they’re only starting to debate it.

    As for a transfer of Gazans to Egypt, there are credible reports that early in the war, Netanyahu asked Biden, Macron and Sunak to pressure the Egyptian President to allow Gazans to flee to Egyptian territory. All three told him, No way, Sissi won’t stand for it and neither will we.

  122. 122.

    Citizen Alan

    @Damien: What really pisses me off about that attitude is that it reflects a willful ignorance of the realities of American politics. I have yet to hear a single person whinging about Biden’s approach to the Gaza situation that takes into account the simple fact, even setting aside the number of Dems who fully support Israel for whatever reasons, the GOP is 100% on Israel’s side and, in fact, would be perfectly fine with it if Israel veered into outright genocide against the Palestinians. And the GOP controls one house of Congress and can endlessly gum up the works in the other! So what the actual fuck do these whiners think Biden can even do unilaterally??

  123. 123.

    Damien

    @Citizen Alan: I had one person tell me Biden’s a terrible president because he never personally came out and apologized for saying he’d seen photos of burned babies in the Hamas raid, but rather had his press secretary walk it back. I legitimately couldn’t even. I have never seen a single world leader ever personally apologize for making a mistake (or even flat out lying, as this person says Biden did), and THAT was gonna outweigh literally everything else Biden has done positively on this and many other issues. My gob is was smacked.

    This person refuses to read any media from Israel, even when I show them how critical Haaretz is of the war; they have apparently decided that only Israel can or has committed war crimes, and the absolutely dumbest thing of all: they actually take the videos of hostages smiling and laughing as they’re released AT FACE VALUE. I’m like “there’s too much propaganda on both sides for wars to be fought in the court of social media opinion,” and they’re like “but these videos prove it!”

    and boy don’t get me started on when I ask them what Israel should do and then push back on their Pollyanna bullshit with “why would they do that? Who’s going to make them?” It’s like I’m the villain for asking them to ground their suggestions for solutions in the realm of what’s possible and not the realm of what feels good.

  124. 124.

    Geminid

    @Damien: One thing I think I’ve seen with this war is that the less people know, the more certain they are. That may be one reason your acquaintance does not want to learn more about it from sources other than the ones they follow. People are comfortable with certainty, and it’s actually one of the easiest states of mind to attain.

  126. 126.

    Geminid

    @Manyakitty: The problem generally is that people can care a lot about something but still not be interested enough to learn more about it. A lack of curiosity.

    In the case of this war, I try to steer people towards reliable sources of reporting.. I think reading Al Jazeera and the Times of Israel is a good start, even if it’s just the headlines.

Comments are closed.