Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

You cannot shame the shameless.

Thanks to your bullshit, we are now under siege.

Come on, media. you have one job. start doing it.

The lights are all blinking red.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

They fucked up the fucking up of the fuckup!

Accused of treason; bitches about the ratings. I am in awe.

The gop is a fucking disgrace.

When you’re a Republican, they let you do it.

Let me eat cake. The rest of you could stand to lose some weight, frankly.

This fight is for everything.

We know you aren’t a Democrat but since you seem confused let me help you.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

Relentless negativity is not a sign that you are more realistic.

Do we throw up our hands or do we roll up our sleeves? (hint, door #2)

When your entire life is steeped in white supremacy, equality feels like discrimination.

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

They punch you in the face and then start crying because their fist hurts.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

The republican ‘Pastor’ of the House is an odious authoritarian little creep.

Oppose, oppose, oppose. do not congratulate. this is not business as usual.

Republicans choose power over democracy, every day.

Republicans don’t lie to be believed, they lie to be repeated.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Trump Speaks, They Jump

Trump Speaks, They Jump

by | 143 Comments

This post is in: 

I might have just as well not written a post yesterday about the terrible, no good immigration bill, because Trump killed it yesterday evening.  The Post makes the following impossible to link, but you get the gist:

Trump Speaks, They Jump

Republicans aren’t shitty opponents.  They have one issue — immigration — and they’re going to hit it as hard as they can.  Today’s impeachment vote on Mayorkas signals their response to killing the immigration bill:  “Why bother giving Biden any more money to secure the border when his administration is too corrupt to spend the money they have?”  I haven’t seen anybody’s whip count, but I’ll bet that the impeachment resolution squeaks by, since these fuckers can unite when power is at stake.

(Also, speaking of unity, I learned yesterday that Democrats are now down a seat in the House because Brian Higgins, formerly a Buffalo-area Democrat, resigned effective this month.  Here are his initial reasons:

“I’ve always been a little impatient, and that trait has helped us deliver remarkable progress for this community,” Higgins said in a statement. “But the pace in Washington, D.C. can be slow and frustrating, especially this year.”

“Therefore, after thoughtful consideration, I have made the difficult decision to leave Congress and explore other ways I can build up and serve Buffalo and Western New York,” he continued.

That was his original statement, but it turns out he quit to run a Buffalo-area performing arts center.  I always thought that Higgins was a decent rep, but decent reps just announce they won’t be running for re-election.  With the House on a razor-thin margin, any Democrat resigning for reasons that aren’t family or health related is just making it easier for Republicans.  I guess I’m naive enough to still be astonished at the selfishness of some of our party when faced with an existential threat.)

Reader Interactions

143Comments

  2. 2.

    Ksmiami

    Our democracy and our institutions are so broken- I see no path until we are willing to update the entire system

  3. 3.

    Chief Oshkosh

    Here’s hoping Higgins steps on a rake. Christ what an asshole. But not nearly the asshole that is the average House or Senate Republican.

  4. 4.

    Old School

    Have we decided why the immigration bill is terrible?  I’m open to persuasion, but the arguments seem to be “because Republicans participated in the drafting.”

    What is in the bill that we can’t live with?

  5. 5.

    teezyskeezy

    *I* even consider it a little too negative to bigfoot Cole’s schadenfreude party down below with this more dour take. I mean I’m all for hearing it, but a little later from now.  We have to savor another Trump loss though first.

  6. 6.

    Jeffro

    They have one issue — immigration — and they’re going to hit it as hard as they can.

    I hear you, but they do have other issues:

    -bold-faced lying about the Biden economy

    -avoiding taking a public stand on Dobbs and its repercussions for the health of all women, in all states

    -not offering any comments whatsoever every time trumpov opens his lunatic mouth between now and November

    -kneecapping Ukraine at the behest of Putin

    It’s a whole party platform o’ badness, unfortunately.

  7. 7.

    dr. bloor

    Everybody take a deep breath.  Higgins has been in congress for close to twenty years, isn’t flipping parties, will almost certainly be replaced by another D, and his absence won’t make a whit of difference in what passes for the House these days.

    If only God gave everyone what he describes as “impatience.” Godspeed and good luck on your upcoming projects.

  8. 8.

    Elizabelle

    WRT Higgins:  WTF?  Couldn’t wait for a replacement to be seated?  Higgins is 64, but come on.  It’s been apparent for some months the GOP has a narrower margin in the House.  And now he’s suddenly “impatient”?

    I would look at how he was approached to run the arts center.  This smells bad.  Have seen that tried in Virginia (let’s find ___ a cushy job so we can get him out of that seat).

  9. 9.

    Almost Retired

    @dr. bloor:  Yeah, I looked it up.  Special election likely to be in April and it’s considered a safe Dem. seat.  Irritating that he couldn’t wait until his term ends, but hardly catastrophic.

    Can’t wait for the NY special election on Feb. 13th.

  11. 11.

    Elizabelle

    @dr. bloor:  Yes, but it will take some months to replace him.  Suppose we come down to even numbers in the House at some point?  Issues where you can peel off some GOP, but, wait, your guy is gone so there’s a missing vote.

    Think he should have left when his replacement was awaiting being sworn in.

  12. 12.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @dr. bloor: Just to be clear:  Higgins resigned effective 2/2 I believe.  That leaves an open seat until Hochul calls a special election.  From memory, there’s a rule that specials can be held on primary days if the vacancy is n days (I think 60) from the primary.  So this seat could be open for 4 months?  Bottom line, it’s an open seat in a House where the margin is just a couple of votes.

  13. 13.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @Old School:

    Immigration activists and progressive lawmakers who criticized Biden’s early embrace of parts of Trump’s border strategy would repeatedly find themselves at odds with a president who they initially viewed as an ally. The president’s pledge to immediately shut down an overwhelmed border — something Trump has vowed to do on the first day of his term — has further fueled that sentiment among some of the advocates who backed Biden in 2020.

    “I’m a supporter of the president, but I think that he made a big mistake with that statement,” said Rep. Greg Casar, a progressive Democrat from Texas. “The president’s statement reflects not just bad policy, but bad politics. … We need to be creating legal pathways for migration, not accepting Trump-style policies.”

    That’s from today’s Post article.

  14. 14.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @teezyskeezy: That appeals court ruling was a partial win for Trump, because delay = win for him.  The lead judge in the case, a Republican appointee, sat on the ruling for weeks.  Now Trump has another 30 days to decide to appeal, which could consist of asking for an en banc ruling from the appeals court, then he can appeal to the Supremes.

    So, yeah, I guess we can celebrate that an obvious bullshit move by Trump got struck down.  It’s a lower-case, muted “yay” from me.

  16. 16.

    Old School

    @Geminid: I know some people have expressed support, but mistermix and John Cole have both written posts about how the bill is terrible.

    mistermix said the bill had no funding for Ukraine and then only funding for refugees as reasons – both claims that proved incorrect.

    I don’t doubt there are some measures in the bill that a Democrat only bill would not have included.  I’m just wondering which ones are dealbreakers to not pass the Ukraine funds, etc.

  17. 17.

    elliottg

    Just my guess, but Higgins was unlikely to have resigned in a vacuum. He probably consulted the leadership and various people as to timelines. I think we might be assuming too much.

  19. 19.

    Anyway

    @Old School:

    Sen Padilla calls it a bill that guts asylum to appease extremist republicans

    ETA Accepting RThug framing on immigration and border issues is a no-win for Ds.

    But if it gets us funding for Ukraine that’s something.

  20. 20.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @Old School:

    mistermix said the bill had no funding for Ukraine and then only funding for refugees as reasons – both claims that proved incorrect.

    I said that in the comments because I misread the Chris Murphy one-pager that someone else linked. I corrected it later.

    My post was about the bill as an immigration bill not a vehicle for funding Ukraine.

    My main reasons for thinking it is a bad bill is because it’s all enforcement and no path to citizenship, no increased asylum, nothing for Dreamers.  It is a bill that just doubles down on the border “crisis” rather than offering a long-term solution.

    Also, the bill does allow the president to “shut down the border” (whatever that means) if the level of immigration exceeds a threshold.

  21. 21.

    Miss Bianca

    @elliottg: You know, I think I’m just going to go ahead and *not* jump to conclusions about this. I would tend to imagine that he spoke to House leadership – and his state’s Dem party – about this before making the announcement.

    That’s just because I presume that at this point, the current crop of House Dems are more together and organized than the GOP.

  22. 22.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @$8 blue check mistermix: Yep. With the thin GOP majority, what had been getting even thinner, there’s not much way to see that other than a real dick move by Higgins.

    Oh well, I’m going to go focus on something I can have an impact on (i.e., lunch break is almost over and I’m behind on work…)

  23. 23.

    smith

    @$8 blue check mistermix: Now Trump has another 30 days to decide to appeal, which could consist of asking for an en banc ruling from the appeals court, then he can appeal to the Supremes

    He has until Monday to appeal to the Supremes. Online lawyers I follow say that requesting en banc would not extend the stay. Unless he appeals to SCOTUS by Monday, the case resumes with Judge Chutkan, en banc request or not.

  24. 24.

    Citizen Alan

    @Ksmiami:  And I see no way to “update the entire system” that doesn’t replace democracy completely with herrenvolk fascism. A democracy cannot survive in the face of 80 million people screaming for dictatorship.

  25. 25.

    Jay

    In 2018, representatives of Italy’s far-right Liga party traveled to Moscow in search of financing from Kremlin-connected sources. Their meeting, held at the historical Metropol Hotel near Red Square, was reported in 2019, along with details of a proposal to launder $65 million in support for the Italian party through an oil trading scheme. What was not known at the time, however, was the professional affiliation of one of the participants on the Russian side. After a months-long investigation, The Insider can now reveal that at least one of the Russian representatives was an officer of the FSB’s Fifth Service, which has a mandate to disrupt democracies abroad.

    https://theins.press/en/politics/268921

  30. 30.

    Jackie

    Heh! Thought y’all could use a chuckle:

    “It’s time for the GOP to get their balls out of Trump’s desk.”

    — Sen. John Fetterman (D-PA), quoted by Politico.

  33. 33.

    Betty Cracker

    @smith: I’ve seen the 30-day timeframe mentioned in at least a couple of articles, so I’m not sure what to believe now. It’s an important point because delay is the entire strategy. Chutkan was already forced to delay once thanks to the court taking its time on this ruling. I wonder how quickly she can get back on track?

  36. 36.

    teezyskeezy

    @$8 blue check mistermix: For someone in the bag for Trump, the lead judge sure permitted an incredible strong rebuke of any idea of presidential immunity.  Also, before the decision, we all suspected the lead judge of sitting on it to help trump, but it looks like there is a very specific jurisdictional argument between the judges that caused the delay.  I mean yes we can be cynical about whether that was “good faith” or not, but even though it was delayed they have, going forward, made things potentially expeditious, so I am not sure we are dealing with Cannon levels of duplicity here.

  40. 40.

    rikyrah

    But…will they?

     

     

    Greg Sargent (@GregTSargent) posted at 8:38 AM on Tue, Feb 06, 2024:
    If media tells voters that “Republicans, on Trump orders, are taking steps to exacerbate border chaos to help them in the election, voters will be better informed, and it’ll blow up in GOP faces.”

    Via @brianbeutler Ds must press media to tell this truth
    https://t.co/gd4chIrUGw
    (https://x.com/GregTSargent/status/1754877175415644237?t=av2VltPZHL-Mh_mIwGpa6g&s=03)

  42. 42.

    rikyrah

    Disagree. The Orange Menace is in charge.

     

    Andrew Desiderio (@AndrewDesiderio) posted at 11:21 AM on Tue, Feb 06, 2024:
    Sen. Murphy, lead Dem negotiator: “There’s nobody in charge. There’s no ability to follow a plan. We did everything they said and they abandoned it before they even read the bill. So I don’t know. This is admittedly a scary situation…”

    Via @LauraEWeiss16
    (https://x.com/AndrewDesiderio/status/1754918341062390240?s=03)

  44. 44.

    teezyskeezy

    @Baud: Well, he’s saying what he can to his audience, which is quite broad.  What more can a guy do to get his message out? He’s trying. Unfortunately Beutlers and Sargents get shut out of the big media, but do what they can.

  48. 48.

    teezyskeezy

    @rikyrah: Given that his “friend” Mitch is got rolled by his own party on this too, maybe Biden will go Dark Brandon on their asses like this.

  51. 51.

    Kay

    jury has reached a verdict in the manslaughter trial of Jennifer Crumbley, the mother of the teenager who killed four people at a Michigan high school in 2021, in a novel legal case that will test the limits of who’s responsible for a mass shooting.

    Guilty on 4 counts of involunatry manslaughter. Gun nuts beware- you just throw your hundreds of guns any-old-where and you may end up held responsible for the carnage that follows.

  52. 52.

    Matt McIrvin

    @rikyrah: If the Border Patrol Union endorsed it, it’s evil and I hate it.

    But I think any currently politically possible position on the border would be unacceptable to me, so I’m willing to give Democrats some slack on this.

  53. 53.

    Elizabelle

    @rikyrah:

    Haven’t seen the GOP in this level of disarray since they fired their own Speaker of the House.

    And that was only four months back.  Yes.  October 3, 2023 is the day Kevin Owen McCarthy got pantsed.

  55. 55.

    Captain C

    @rikyrah: Today’s New York Daily News headline, in huge letters, was “Trumpers Fight Border Deal”

    (I saw it when I was in the bodega near work to get breakfast and pet their cat.)

    ETA:  You can see it here.  (At least for the rest of the day, I assume)

  56. 56.

    Kay

    We had an uncle of a teenager who pled to involuntary manslaughter – the uncle had left his gun on top of a clothes dryer in the garage- 15  and 16 year old waiting under the garage awning for the school bus in the rain, they find the gun, one accidentally shoots and kills the other.

  61. 61.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah:

     Biden can use the State of the Union address to confront Republicans, directly, for killing the border bill because Trump told them to.  “They’ll boo him. Let them. It’ll be great theater.” Throw it right in their faces.

    “So I ask you, members of Congress: who do you represent?  Your constituents?  Or a disgraced, currently 4-times-indicted blowhard?

    America?  or Vladimir Putin?”

  62. 62.

    Geminid

    @$8 blue check mistermix: Greg Casar has an opinion on this bill, and so does fellow Progressive Caucus member Ruben Gallego:

       Arizona and its border communities have faced unprecedented challenges to manage the humanitarian and security crises at our southern border. Now Congress has a chance to act.

    I am proud that my priorities including funding for the Shelter and Services program are included in the package.

    ….I will do all I can to work with my colleagues in both chambers to cut through the noise and do what is best for Arizona and the country.

    .

  63. 63.

    wjca

    @Anyway: Sen Padilla calls it a bill that guts asylum to appease extremist republicans.

    I’m wondering whether that is sincere belief.  Or a ploy to convince a couple of (dumb as rocks) Republicans to vote for it.  Only takes a couple to ease it thru.

  64. 64.

    HeleninEire

    @rikyrah: Found this on “Jack Smith’s” Twitter. Engoron’s letter says, in part:

    “As the presiding magistrate, the trier of fact, and the judge of credibility, I of course want to know whether Mr. Weisselberg is now changing his tune, and whether he is admitting he lied under oath in my courtroom at this trial.”

    “I do not want to ignore anything on a case of this magnitude”

    “By Wednesday at 5pm, please submit, as officers of the court, a letter to me detailing anything you know about this that would not violate and of your professional ethics or obligations. I would also appreciate knowing how you think I should address this matter, if at all…”

  65. 65.

    Captain C

    @Jeffro:

    “So I ask you, members of Congress: who do you represent?  Your constituents?  Or a disgraced, currently 4-times-indicted blowhard?

    America?  or Vladimir Putin?”

    You know Marge and some of the other Nihilist Caucus will be like “PUTIN!!!!!  WE REPRESENT PUTIN!!!!”  At that point, the Moscow Turtle will slide under his chair in humiliation, comforting himself by thinking of his own ill-gotten gains.

  66. 66.

    smith

    @Betty Cracker: I’ve seen the 30-day timeframe mentioned in at least a couple of articles, so I’m not sure what to believe now.

    I went back to see if I could find where I got that idea, and I found this from Katie Phang.  Her conclusion seems to have been based on the very narrow and immediate conditions the appeals court set for continuing the stay. I’ve seen the same interpretation from other sources, but can’t dig them up. I guess other lawyers could disagree, but I found it convincing anyway.

  67. 67.

    teezyskeezy

    @Baud: Because he isn’t the entire media, recognizes the Dems don’t play to the MSM’s incentives very well,  and thinks the Dems should play to said incentives for a circus a bit more in order to make fools of the GOP to an audience wider than his own?

  68. 68.

    wjca

    @$8 blue check mistermix: My main reasons for thinking it is a bad bill is because it’s all enforcement and no path to citizenship, no increased asylum, nothing for Dreamers.

    All those are nice-to-haves.  But without this bill, they don’t exist either.  So what you are, in effect, saying is “All, or nothing at all.”  Absolutism isn’t how we make progress.

  69. 69.

    Baud

    @teezyskeezy:

    I don’t think journalists should be dispensing political advice. But maybe he sees himself as more of a pundit. I don’t know.

    ETA: Going back, it may be Greg Sargent dispensing the advice, and he is definitely a pundit.

  71. 71.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @wjca:

    All those are nice-to-haves.  But without this bill, they don’t exist either.  So what you are, in effect, saying is “All, or nothing at all.”  Absolutism isn’t how we make progress.

    In case it wasn’t clear, what I’m saying is that an immigration bill that is all enforcement is a bill that has everything Republicans want and nothing Democrats want.  There were no positive steps forward towards a solution for the immigration issue.  We don’t need to get everything, but getting nothing makes it a bad bill from Democrats’ perspective

    Also, on another topic — my understanding is that it’s standard practice to allow the person appealing 30 days to decide whether to appeal en banc or to a higher court.  I hope that I’m wrong about that.

  72. 72.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: Beutler is part of the media, but he’s also a one-note clown who never misses a chance to blame Dems/Biden for everything.

  74. 74.

    Elizabelle

    Oxford High School (Michigan) shooter’s mother found guilty of involuntary manslaughter.  Kay had worried the case was not convincing, and the long jury deliberations might mean an acquittal

    WaPost:

    The jury of six men and six women deliberated for about 11 hours before finding Crumbley, 45, guilty of four counts of involuntary manslaughter in the deaths of Hana St. Juliana, 14; Tate Myre, 16; Madisyn Baldwin, 17; and Justin Shilling, 17. The Crumbleys bought their son a gun four days before the shooting as an early Christmas gift, a fact that propelled their prosecutions as the first parents of a mass shooter to face such serious charges in connection to their child’s crime. Crumbley’s husband, James, 47, faces identical charges at a trial scheduled for March.

    Crumbley’s then-15-year-old son brought a gun to Oxford High School on Nov. 30, 2021, and killed four students, while wounding seven other people. Ethan Crumbley was charged as an adult and pleaded guilty to two-dozen charges, including a rare charge of terrorism. He was sentenced to life without parole in December.

  75. 75.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @rikyrah: This, along with the Monitor Barbara Jones recently finding more discrepancies and misstatements with regards to valuations of Trump properties.  Engoron probably wants to take both into account before issuing his ruling.

  77. 77.

    UncleEbeneezer

    @Baud: Buetler’s schtick is to always claim Dems are doing it wrong.  No matter what “it” is.  It’s one of the reasons he’s better ignored.

  78. 78.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:  Sorry Kay!  Hadn’t seen that you already covered this.

    Glad to see the verdict, and would guess Daddy School Shooter might have incentive to cut a deal.

  80. 80.

    $8 blue check mistermix

    @$8 blue check mistermix: So here’s the answer on the 30 day delay, from the Post piece on the verdict:

    Trump has already indicated that he plans to ask the full U.S. Court of Appeals for the D.C. Circuit and the Supreme Court to review the immunity ruling. The court set tight deadlines for that review, saying it would put the ruling on hold until Feb. 12 for Trump to appeal to the Supreme Court but would not wait for the full D.C. Circuit to weigh in.

    I’m sure the Supreme Court will issue a speedy ruling on this case, no worries there!  /s

  81. 81.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    Gun owners on the jury too. I think these cases sometimes come down to how many gun nuts they get on the jury but not this one. They just treated a gun like a gun rather than a tribal signal and opportunity to own the libs.

  85. 85.

    ...now I try to be amused

    @Jeffro:

    “So I ask you, members of Congress: who do you represent?  Your constituents?  Or a disgraced, currently 4-times-indicted blowhard?”

    A Twitter poster put it well:

    “The GOP has exactly one constituent.”

  86. 86.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:  That jury could imagine their teenagers in the line of fire.  At their high school.

    Things have improved since George Zimmerman’s jury screwed the pooch with the Trayvon Martin murder.

    Yesterday would have been Trayvon’s 29th birthday.

  87. 87.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    I was persuaded by the defense argument that mom’s (irresponsible) behavior did not meet the “neglectful parent” standard they use in abuse and neglect proceedings, but I guess the jury wasn’t.

  90. 90.

    Elizabelle

    More from the WaPost article:

    Oakland County Prosecutor Karen McDonald and her team presented two theories in their case against Crumbley: that she was “grossly negligent” by failing to properly store the gun her son obtained and that she failed her legal duty to prevent her child from harming others.

    The case against the Crumbleys is at the forefront of prosecutions against the parents of juvenile shooters, a strategy some prosecutors embrace as they and the public reassess who can be held accountable for a child’s violent actions.

    “Unfortunately, I think the sea change is that as we’re grappling with an ocean of firearms, we are going to — and should — see more of these prosecutions brought,” said Eric Rinehart, the Lake County States Attorney in Illinois who prosecuted the father of the Highland Park shooter for sponsoring the shooter’s firearms card despite knowing of his mental health issues.

    “I think sending parents a message they can be responsible for what their kids do, if those kids are expressing homicidal and suicidal thoughts, locking up guns is something we can do,” Rinehart said.

  91. 91.

    Hob

    Regardless of whether Higgins is causing a huge hassle or a minor one, his statement is very annoying. OK dude, you don’t like that Congress is dysfunctional and it isn’t the same place you started in 19 years ago. But it sure as shit is the same place you ran for re-election to a year and a half ago. People voted for you then under the assumption that you didn’t mind doing the job for 2 more years.

    Also I don’t envy the employees of that theater center. Someone who lists “impatience” as his main weakness (but in a cutesy way suggesting it’s really his main strength), and has no previous experience in anything arts-related (and no experience in running anything other than his legislative staff)… is not a great fit for a nonprofit arts organization. If what you want is a well-connected guy who’s good at fundraising— that’s the kind of person you’re supposed to put on the board of directors, not the CEO!

  92. 92.

    Kay

    @Elizabelle:

    My husband is a trial lawyer and he followed that trial. He thinks the jury voted not to aquit Zimmerman but instead to protect their cherished guns.

    This one wasn’t about that. It was pretty fact based, except for a long back and forth on the fact that mom is a “swinger” – she meets with a group of people who have sex with one another- which had nothing to do with anything.

  95. 95.

    Elizabelle

    Those parents failed to inform, and four other high schoolers were taken out in body bags.  I had not realized this — from the WaPost — the parents did not divulge their child now owned a rifle.  Their child was drawing pictures with a gun and bleeding body in it.

    Oxford High School counselor Shawn Hopkins testified when the Crumbley parents were called to school the morning of the shooting to discuss violent drawings and messages from a math assignment, he worried the shooter was showing signs of suicidal rather than homicidal ideation. The shooter had scrawled phrases “The thoughts won’t stop. Help me,” “my life is useless,” “blood everywhere” and “the world is dead” along drawings of a gun, a bullet and a bleeding body.

    … At the counselor’s meeting the morning of the shooting, Crumbley testified she was concerned, but understood — as did the counselor and school dean — that they were dealing with a mental health issue, not disciplinary one. Crumbley’s son asked to go back to class, and she and her husband said they had to return to work.

    The Crumbley parents, who maintain the gun was locked and hidden separate from the bullets in their bedroom, did not mention the new gun purchase or that their son recently visited a shooting range. Neither the parents nor school staff searched the shooter’s backpack before he was sent back to class. Two hours later, the teen opened fire in school.

  96. 96.

    teezyskeezy

    @$8 blue check mistermix: Agreed!  The mistake is thinking there was any compromise going to happen in the first place. Yes, compromise is the way forward…unfortunately never trust that the GOP is doing anything in good faith and that they won’t stab you in the back.  Now they’ve got the Dems begging to pass their own right wing border bill. Great work!

    But *to be fair* (please note) I do see Dems trying to lay this at the GOP’s feet, accusing them of creating chaos on purpose to win the election.  But they need to walk away from this shit bill right away and disown it. It’s garbage and continuing to plead for its passage undermines the rest.

  98. 98.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Kay: One of the many aspects of this that added to the sense that this case is representative of where we are WRT gun “rights,” is how the mother just didn’t see how she’d done anything wrong (at least, the news snippet with her statement from the stand seemed to show that).

    Sad and chilling in equal parts.

  99. 99.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Tony G: Meh, me neither. I’m just in a foul mood for having to continue to deal with two different pieces of shitty software at one of my workplaces. Sorry all for being such a nattering nabob of negativity on a day when there’s so much juicy good news about Hair Furher get getting some comeuppance.

  100. 100.

    Elizabelle

    @Kay:  Yeah.  The Zimmerman case turns out to have been decided during jury selection.  Tragic.

    I forget so many murder victims’ names and faces, but will never forget Trayvon.

  101. 101.

    rikyrah

    @Kay:

    Guilty on 4 counts of involunatry manslaughter. Gun nuts beware- you just throw your hundreds of guns any-old-where and you may end up held responsible for the carnage that follows.

     

    I must admit, I didn’t think they were serious, when prosecutors began this tactic. It’s shocking to me. Not that I disagree with it, but, I never thought that prosecutors would take up this line of accountability.

  103. 103.

    Torrey

    @Miss Bianca: ​
     

    You know, I think I’m just going to go ahead and *not* jump to conclusions about this. I would tend to imagine that he spoke to House leadership – and his state’s Dem party – about this before making the announcement.

    Thank you, and amen. It’s very likely that the House is going to be dysfunctional throughout the spring anyway. His resignation now gives the opportunity for a special election with the winner positioned to run in November as an incumbent. It might have been the best time to make the move.

    And yeah, I think it can be taken as given that it was discussed with the leadership and the state’s Democratic Party. He’s going to be running an arts program. He’ll want the state Dems not to be holding a grudge against him.

  104. 104.

    Paul in KY

    @Kay: Also, when your kid is repeatedly doing strange and ominous stuff and you have bought him a firearm, you can be criminally liable for what the kid does.

  106. 106.

    teezyskeezy

    @rikyrah: I’m optimistic Biden is trying to make this work for the Dems in the best way he can from this point forward…but it was dangerous to get into this position of begging the GOP to pass their own bill.  What if tomorrow they say…okay, thanks and take it, and make a point that *we* got played?

    I am actually hopeful that Biden will navigate through this at the GOP’s expense…but at best now we get the anti-immigration, anti-asylum wish list…at worst, that plus Ukraine destroyed.  I just think non stop messaging about the GOP being chaos agents and traitors should have been the nonstop message from the beginning and *never* give them any credit for having a point about the border. Dems should be pushing that the only border crisis is that the GOP won’t support a well-funded orderly immigration system, by design, so they can gain power by a fake crisis.

  107. 107.

    Paul in KY

    @Elizabelle: I bet the murdering weirdo was like ‘Wow, I can’t believe they didn’t search my backpack! The fools!’

    All you would have had to do was lift it and you would know something large and metallic was in it. That probably was the last chance to save those poor kids.

  108. 108.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    I will say it again, I do not have a problem with this bill. It still lets in 5K asylum seekers PER DAY. In a year, that is 1,825,000 people. How does that gut the asylum process? Its still way to many people to successfully process via our court system in a reasonable amount of time. Its still more people than we can shelter and place. Our systems for managing asylum seekers ARE overwhelmed right now, and it seems like there is a whole lot of denial over that on this site. I get being frustrated that there wasn’t a pathway to citizenship, particularly for the dreamers. However, I think the objections to the bill are WAY overblown.

  109. 109.

    Jeffro

    @rikyrah: Biden: But if the bill fails, I want to be absolutely clear about something. The American people are going to know why it fails. I’ll be taking this issue to the country…  the American people are going to know the reason the border is not secure is Donald Trump

    this is great!  he’s already putting the question to them (that I noted just a bit upthread)

    “Which is it, GOP?  America, or trump?”

    He ACTUALLY said “show some spine”!!!  LOLOLOL

  110. 110.

    Elizabelle

    @Paul in KY:  It is so tragic.  Those parents had a duty to disclose.  They failed.

    I can imagine my nephews being gunned down; you or me being gunned down in a theatre or grocery store.

    Europe does not live like this.

  111. 111.

    Eolirin

    @teezyskeezy: If they pass it we get 60 billion dollars in military aid to Ukraine and the border situation gets taken off the table as a line of attack going into the next election.

    This was not an immigration bill and has never been presented as such. This is a national security bill, and is bowing to the reality that the Republicans have successfully made the situation at the border and the volume of asylum seekers into something that the majority of the country and especially the populations of border states and states where migrants are getting bused are viewing as a crisis.

    Whether that’s true or not.

    It’s certainly true the system is getting overwhelmed and needs more funding. It would be much better if that funding could be obtained without having to make draconian changes to the asylum process. But we can’t even get that without Republican votes right now. And that means giving up stuff that sucks to give up. I don’t think we can afford to be seen as ignoring these concerns though. It’s the one issue major issue the public is on the other side of. It needs to be neutralized as a going concern.

  112. 112.

    Elizabelle

    @topclimber:  We should know who owns those arsenals.

    Remember that the Las Vegas concert shooter had an arsenal.  Nobody knew.

    This is insanity.

  116. 116.

    TBone

    @Jackie: thank you!!! My crush on him expands yet again.  Did you see his recent appearance at a fancy D.C. gala?  A hoodie “tux” with cufflinks 😆 and shorts.  I have a pic but cannot link, am dinosaur.

  121. 121.

    wjca

    @$8 blue check mistermix: In case it wasn’t clear, what I’m saying is that an immigration bill that is all enforcement is a bill that has everything Republicans want and nothing Democrats want.  There were no positive steps forward towards a solution for the immigration issue.  We don’t need to get everything, but getting nothing makes it a bad bill from Democrats’ perspective.

    The thing is, it’s not an “immigration bill.”  If that were all it was, I’d agree with you.  But what it actually is is a Military Aid to Ukraine bill.  To which some immigration stuff has been added in order to get it passed.   The immigration stuff can be dealt with later.  And should be.  But Ukraine can’t wait until after the elections.

  127. 127.

    TBone

    As always, I have learned a lot here today and I’m being quiet (for the most part) so I can “listen.” A lot of great, informative comments.  Tally Ho!

  132. 132.

    Hob

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    I will say it again, I do not have a problem with this bill. It still lets in 5K asylum seekers PER DAY

    I think that’s not correct.

    The way it’s written, unless I’m misunderstanding every summary I’ve seen, is that if there is any week where the average during that week is at least 5000 “migrant encounters” per day (regardless of whether they’re seeking asylum, or were just hoping to get in unobtrusively and work undocumented)… then that would trigger a situation where the government can simply turn everyone away at the border. While that’s in effect— which could be for up to nine months— the number of asylum applications per day from unauthorized border crossings would be zero; the government would only be required to process (a much lower number of) asylum applications at official ports of entry, and they would be denying more of those than before since the bill also provides stricter standards for asylum.

    Since the number of migrant encounters right now is already over that threshold, this would go into effect immediately. Everyone currently crossing the border on their own to seek asylum would be denied.

    The “we’ll be admitting 5000 per day” interpretation is Republican propaganda— by which I mean it’s literally a talking point made up by Trump and his allies to lobby against the bill; of course the bill was also written by Republicans, but the “don’t pass anything” faction of the party has been using this exact talking point to kill it, and that’s where that interpretation came from.

  133. 133.

    rikyrah

    @Ksmiami:

    Our democracy and our institutions are so broken- I see no path until we are willing to update the entire system

    I believe that the founders saw the Orange Menace from a mile away, over two hundred years ago.

     

    What they did not foresee was an entire political party being willing to turn their backs on the Oath to the Constitution.

    THAT is what we have to contend with and be honest about.

  135. 135.

    rikyrah

    @Eolirin:

    This was not an immigration bill and has never been presented as such. This is a national security bill, and is bowing to the reality that the Republicans have successfully made the situation at the border and the volume of asylum seekers into something that the majority of the country and especially the populations of border states and states where migrants are getting bused are viewing as a crisis.

     

    The migrants ARE BEING TRAFFICKED.

    I do not grasp why the people driving the buses aren’t arrested for trafficking. Anyone going along with this shyt by Abbott isn’t arrested for trafficking. It’s phucking trafficking. And, if I had a peeve with the Federal Government it’s that they aren’t arresting for trafficking.

  136. 136.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Elizabelle:

    Sorry Kay! Hadn’t seen that you already covered this.

    Glad to see the verdict, and would guess Daddy School Shooter might have incentive to cut a deal.

    I can’t imagine what deal he could get. Remember that these two POS parents went on the run the weekend after the shooting.

  137. 137.

    Ksmiami

    @rikyrah: definitely.. but I do feel like we are trying to run a Mac M3 on an MS-dos operating system when it comes to our government. The Founders wanted to protect the minority of weirdos, not enable them to stymie the majority. And yet, here we are.

  138. 138.

    wjca

    @mrmoshpotato: I can’t imagine what deal he could get.

    At a guess, they asked for separate trials, both hoping to go second.  If the first trial resulted in a not guilty verdict, the second case would be effectively over.  And if it came back with a guilty verdict (which it did), the second defendant argues that the first defendant has already been held responsible, so he can’t be.  It’s nonsense,  of course.  But these aren’t mental giants.

  140. 140.

    Torrey

    @Hob: ​
    @Miss Bianca: ​

    To be clear, Higgins made the announcement three months ago

    Right! And thank you for bringing that up. In November, he announced he would be leaving in February. IMO, this gives his party plenty of time to find someone to run for his seat. It’s possible, but not necessarily the case, that resignation in February is based on the schedule that this particular arts organization had for getting a new CEO in place. But the timing does work, I think, in terms of the election, if he wasn’t planning on running again in any case. If he’s leaving because he has a new can’t-turn-it-down-job-of-his-dreams lined up, it’s still on message that he would cite the disarray in and frustration with Congress, reminding everyone that Congress isn’t working and is pretty clearly not working because of the Republicans.

    [Edited to delete redundant material.]

  141. 141.

    Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony

    @Hob: OK. Got the details wrong. So up to 4,999 on average per day unless there is enough of an increase to trigger a temporary closure. Plus the bill funds more asylum officers to more quickly and fairly ensure that people who qualify get asylum. People who don’t qualify have an expedited removal. That’s a good thing. They shouldn’t be waiting for many years to discover they’ll be deported.

  142. 142.

    Hob

    @Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony:

    So up to 4,999 on average per day unless there is enough of an increase to trigger a temporary closure.

    Not in real life, no (again unless I’ve misunderstood what I’ve read). It is already above 4,999 so the closure would be triggered immediately. There is no realistic prospect of the numbers suddenly dropping to an average of 4,999.

    So the bill seems to have been designed to be a de facto closing of the border and closing off of asylum requests there. If the goal had been to keep a manageable limit on how many requests could be processed at a time, and keep processing those while turning back other people, it wouldn’t have been written this way. And if the goal had been to make the asylum process smoother for people who do qualify, it wouldn’t have included mandatory detention for unauthorized border-crossers, and wouldn’t have made the “credible fear” standard so much harder to reach. You wrote “quickly and fairly” but I see no basis for assuming that this result is “fair.”

    You are being extremely generous in your reading of this. Again, the interpretation you started out with— “we’d be letting in 5,000 per day”— is 100% false, not just a slight misunderstanding about “details”, and it originated as deliberate propaganda by Republicans who have made it clear they don’t want any bill at all and don’t want any refugees at all. But just because there are unreasonable extremists against the bill doesn’t mean it was not already extreme and harsh (at least, in terms of asylum-seekers; there are other unrelated aspects of the bill that are more constructive).

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