After seeing the comments a couple of weeks ago about the NYT reporting about the bigoted attacks coming out of the mouths of Republicans in the House and the Senate, I had a thought.
Could Sexism Work for Our Side For a Change?
I mean, whatever happened to “the gentle lady from wherever”?
Seriously, we should just nuke every “tradition” in the House and Senate that is based on the assumption of comity. Every single tradition that isn’t actually a rule. Gone. And then when we control that chamber, we need to nuke all the rules that are based on the assumption of comity are gone, too.
But back to my original thought. Since Marge appears to be the face of the new Republican ugliness, maybe sexism can work for our side for a change? Men can be seen as strong or forceful, but all Marge represents is in your face lies, over the top anger and *ugliness, the worst kind of partisanship, and racism. So I’m not sure that strong or forceful is what folks come away with from Marge.
A fair number of people still have conventional views about gender roles, and even though I am not a fan of traditional gender roles, she sure violates every traditional gender role for women that I can come up with. There is an *ugliness about her that brings to mind gender-based insults.
I don’t see how it helps the Republican party to have Marge be the face of it. Is it too much to hope that moderates will see that and be turned off? That they will judge her behavior more harshly than they would judge the same behaviors coming from a man?
In any case, I hope that Marge being the face of the new republican party comes back to bite them in the end.
I know everyone doesn’t read every thread, so here’s the article: On Capitol Hill, Republicans Use Bigoted Attacks Against Political Foes
*ugliness as in mean and nasty, not as in not pretty.
Open thread.
japa21
I already think it is starting to. Waiting to see her performance art at the State of the Union.
And the Biden camp has already started using her. In fact, the Biden camp is doing a very good job of highlighting the insanity of the GOP, either male or female. You can always tell when their digs hits the mark by how loud the squealing is.
Ten Bears
Maggie, bless her heart, is the face of the Repubs?
It has long been my contention we need to find a way to turn it back in their faces, no matter how distasteful that may be. Not going to ‘win’ this thing until we collectively step off the curb, into the gutter and play the game by the same rules they do
horatius
Why doesn’t anyone mention Marge bouncing on two dicks that weren’t her husband’s and getting divorced and then pushing traditional family values down everyone’s throats?
TBone
I’m watching Carroll Baker, Eli Wallach, and Karl Maldin “dancing together” in the movie ‘Baby Doll’ and your reaction to Ms. Traitor Trash is pretty good. I don’t know how to explain my comment quite yet but it’ll come to me. You’d have to have seen the movie to understand that Eli Wallach’s character’s methods/tactics are what inspired my comment.
brantl
I think a whole segment of the Republican party cringes at how stupid she is, but they don’t care how mean or bigoted MTG is. That was the ticket that got her inside the party. She just doesn’t understand the part about an actual Representative or Senator keeping the not-out-loud parts not-out-loud, when TIFG, the salmon-colored slime, says them out loud, all day, every day. Anything as subtle as that is way over her head, like double-digit addition.
brantl
@horatius: Cause nobody thinks that there’s two blind men around Marge, slow enough that she can catch them.
Starfish
The women that Republicans put in leadership have always been like this. They are either hothouse flowers who never talk to the press like Kristie Noem or just super hateful people like Marjorie Taylor Greene. You have to remember that despite doing unhinged things like following the Parkland kid around and harassing him, she is a good fundraiser for her party.
Cindy Hyde-Smith from Mississippi seems like a pretty terrible person. She even has it on her website that she would like some more judges to snatch away a woman’s control over her own healthcare. The gentle lady would like you to bleed to death after an ectopic pregnancy.
Chris
Hard to say. I think it’s just as likely that her being the face of the Republican Party on abortion just helps people believe Trump is the Sensible Moderate by contrast.
TBone
@TBone: Karl Malden (sp. correction) plays the ultimate incel alpha male. The movie is as relevant now as ever, maybe moreso. So many themes still playing out today.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Regardless of genitalia or gender presentation, know-nothing R’s like Marge are the face of the Trump party, and will remain so after TFG gets even more “former”.
smith
Republican women with high-profile roles have always been given an exemption from the demands placed on not-prominent women. The classic example, of course, is Phyllis Schlafley, who vociferously argued for women’s confinement to hearth and home while she toured the country to spread this gospel. Why, it’s almost as if Republicans recognize more than two genders.
Another Scott
I’m not a normie, so I don’t know how pushing norms and comity would work in attempting to counter Greene and her minions.
Joe “You Lie!” Wilson is still in the House, representing SC.
While recognizing “the feels” and “have a beer with” are important, I’m a big fan of watching what they do rather than what they say. IIRC, Greene said she wants to be chair of the House Oversight Committee. Oversight is what gave use the Terri Schiavo travesty – it’s important that the chair return to sensible hands, and that means flipping the House (and working hard to keep the Senate).
Dobbs is huge. Doing whatever we can to keep that front of mind in marginally-connected voters is really important.
Whatever works. “Just win baby!!” – N.P.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
karen marie
I’d like someone more clever to do some “she so ugly” jokes about Marge. Kimmel gets her good here, at 4 minutes 20.
feebog
It looks like MTG will be the poster girl for Republican ugliness. Because the other poster girl’s decision to bail out of CO 3 to the even more conservative CO 4 has completely backfired. She is polling at 17% and the attack ads are brutal.
SiubhanDuinne
@Another Scott:
I thought I saw here on this very blog, just yesterday, that she wanted to be Secretary of Homeland Security.
Jackie
@horatius: You mean like this Newsweek article when MTG is accusing women of tempting vulnerable weak men to sin?
https://www.newsweek.com/marjorie-taylor-greene-wants-women-stop-tempting-christian-men-1872603
She isn’t exactly the right person to promote chastity!🤦🏼♀️
*edited to correct publication linked to.
Miss Bianca
@karen marie: I don’t like this approach on our side, frankly. It’s one thing to entertain the hope and expectation that the misogyny on the Republican side eventually catches up with Greene.
It’s another for us to indulge in misogynist BS like “you ugly and your breath stank” dozens-calling ourselves. Just like the “jokes” about certain women “really” being trans, etc etc. – it’s shallow and sexist, and I’d like to think we’re better than that.
I don’t mind attacking Greene over the ugliness of her mind or her character. That’s legit, because those are the things that really matter. But cheap laffs over her looks are just…ugh. Why go there?
kalakal
I could not agree more. The current situation amounts to unilateral disarmament
sab
We already have the same behavior from men: Matt Gaetz and Gym Jordan. They do seem to keep getting reelected.
Baud
@SiubhanDuinne:
That should have been your first clue that it was not credible.
Yarrow
I have no idea what you’re trying to say. However, Trump is the face of the Republican party. People like MTG are mere supporting acts. Nothing is going to change that at the moment.
Jackie
@sab: Gerrymandered congressional districts helps a lot.
trollhattan
@SiubhanDuinne: Getting serious George Santos vibes here. Why not both? Plus head NASA and land her Greene ass on the moon, where she’ll shoot at shit in a low-gravity, vacuum environment and yell at Democrats.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Co-sign.
Yarrow
@karen marie: I watched that the other night and found that bit really cringey. Saying she looks “like a linebacker in a dress” is not a funny joke. The audience didn’t seem to like it either.
Yarrow
@Miss Bianca: Agreed.
sab
@Jackie: Yes. Gym’s used to be shaped like a duck so that it could collect every rural voter in north central Ohio.
Jackie
@Baud: Hey, that was me! How dare you imply… //
https://www.rawstory.com/amp/marjorie-taylor-greene-2667350492-2667350492
Spanky
@Starfish:
Repaired for accuracy.
RaflW
Props to ABC for being blunt: Nazis mingle openly at CPAC, spreading antisemitic conspiracy theories and finding allies
Spanky
@Jackie:
Yeah! Let’s leave that to the priests and evangelical ministers.
Omnes Omnibus
Oddly, that is basically the way my dad described my brother’s appearance in his baptismal gown about 53 years ago.*
*Yesterday was his b-day.
MattF
To me, Marge looks like someone who has been punched in the face. Not a good look.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@feebog:
It’s hysterical to see. She honestly didn’t know just how insular the godforsakeneasternplainsofcolorado is. Where’s she’s from on the western slopes was that way for the longest time but the demographic changes (fueled by the massive influx of young white people from everywhere else like IA, NE, TX, CA, etc) are becoming evident there; it’s probably a reason she bailed in that it’s not a monolithic block of batshit, insane or otherwise glibertarian voters. That’s cuz “there” is still near or in the mountains (the main draw) whereas anybody who’s been to Limon would realize that type of place is where many of the newcomers came from in the first place so why trade their Iowa version of Limon for the Colorado version? Thus, it remains insular.
As such, they’ll vote for their home-grown, batshit insane conservative, they don’t need one from the other side of the state.
RaflW
@Yarrow: I think she does reinforce the notion that the right is irredeemably mean and, too often, stupid. She (and Jordan, Gaetz and even Comer) make it plain that Trump/Trumpism isn’t an anomaly, but the main thrust of the GOP.
Will that matter in the fall? We’ll know in due time.
I think Trump getting 57%-60% in the various primaries so far actually indicates there is room to exploit Republican-leaning voters unease about all this.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@MattF: To me, Marge looks like someone who would punch a random passersby the face. Also not a good look.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@RaflW: Mean and stupid.
Apt description for Trump and his trumplings.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Wow. Republicans don’t seem to be too familiar with the concept of self-reflection.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Pretty sure they have no reflection.
RaflW
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Ken Buck has been run of the mill Republican terrible. But it’s been interesting to see, as he nears retirement, that he’s fed up with the Biden impeachment circus, and has been since last September.
He’s not as dumb as many of the newer caucus members. He probably has some grasp of what Newt’s attacks on Bill Clinton did to the GOP back in the day.
Too bad he has zero sway any more (or, perhaps not too bad at all. Let the petard be hoist!).
Jay C
@Baud:
Most vampires don’t.
WaterGirl
@RaflW: They really are the mean, ugly, hateful party. When I say that Marge is ugly, I am not talking about her face. I’m talking about what an ugly, hateful person she is. The ugliness starts on the inside.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Good one!
WaterGirl
I am trying to think of a Republican who is funny, or charming, or quick-witted, and I am coming up blank.
Betty Cracker
I do suspect that seeing a braying ninny like Greene on TV a lot hurts the GOP’s image with normie voters. Speaker-Pastor PornHub Johnson is just as bug-fuck nuts as Greene but doesn’t immediately come across that way. His turn in the barrel is coming soon.
Sister Golden Bear
@Miss Bianca:
Amen. There are so many more appropriate things to focus on, such as the ugliness of her character, instead.
Plus the jokes implying she’s a man — or looks like a man — are transphobic.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: John McCain. Oh, wait. He died.
japa21
Going sexist would be a self-goal. The GOP has been sexist and racist as all get-out but hasn’t paid a price because the media overlooks it. If a Dem sneezes in the wrong direction they get dinged by the media. It what works for the GOP does not work for the Dems.
However, ganging up on the GOP as a group is different. Bundle Gaetz, MTG, Comer, Trump etc. together and you have a shot. Damn, add Cruz, Hawley, Cotton and the rest. Put them all together and they resemble a Mean Girls movie. They are petty and unserious people.
And we don’t need to figure out language to use to describe them, just keep showing snippets of them talking over and over. We don’t need to put words in their mouths, they do enough of that themselves.
I am making a prediction. This is not said with great confidence and is definitely not going to make me complacent.
House: Dems end up with approximately a 20 seat majority.
Senate: Dems end up remaining at 51 seats with outside shot at 52.
Presidency: Biden wins with close to 350 electoral votes.
More importantly, Republicans lose seats in virtually every state at the state level. In some states, they lose their majority position.
Again, not ready to money on any of this, but I plan on doing my part, as limited as it may be, to see it happen.
Miss Bianca
@RaflW: It’s also too bad that even while decrying the Biden impeachment effort, Buck still clings to the notion that the Trump impeachment was a “disgrace” and “unconstitutional”, according to a Politico article that someone linked to the other day.
I mean, it’s probably too much to hope for that the guy would wake the entire fuck UP about his party and about Trump, but a girl would like to be able to dream…
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: Perhaps nasty would convey the meaning you want without the confusion about physical appearance that ugly seems to cause.
Omnes Omnibus
@japa21: I like the way you think.
Miss Bianca
@Sister Golden Bear:
Yes, exactly. We don’t need to be adding fuel to that raging dumpster fire.
japa21
@Omnes Omnibus: Learned it from you.
piratedan
have to pile on here with the thought that attacks on appearance fall flat, I want there to be more focus on what they do and what they say. Granted, I understand that this is “next level” adulting for some of our fellow citizens.
smith
I can’t even think of one who has a genuine-looking smile. You’d think that would be baseline for a politician but none of them can manage it.
Omnes Omnibus
@japa21: No wonder I like it. Solipsisms R Us.
RaflW
@Miss Bianca: Yep. That’s his run-of-the-mill sh!ttiness. But one also wonders if he’s figured out that a) he needs to toe that party line to have any shot at wingnut welfare after retiring, and b) to avoid having death threats aplenty.
I think that second item is all too present for many R members of Congress. Their unwillingness to take collective action to stop the nutjobs from having that power to threaten means it’s not going to stop. But I don’t think it’s nothing in how the party is going insane.
scav
Sexism won’t work for our side because their side isn’t much bothered by logical inconsistency — if not absolute logical incoherency. They’re fine with moral incoherency as well.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Don’t you really mean, “Solipsisms R *me*”?/
trollhattan
@RaflW: Christ, saying the quiet parts out loud. Wonder who could have popularized that among Republicans?
At least it’s an ethos.
catclub
@WaterGirl: Colin Powell. Also dead.
John Cole
@WaterGirl: Pjk O’Rourke had flashes of humor but he has been dead for a decade.
RaflW
BTW, did folks watch the SNL cold open last night? It was a bit more subtle skewering of Tim Scott, Lindsey Graham and Marco Rubio than I might expect from the show, but it was pretty spot on. (Not sure I got who the 4th Sen. was).
eta: 4th was Sen. James Risch. Not sure how he got picked? Is he a ‘moderate’ (cough). Has TFG picked on him? Huh.
Betty Cracker
@japa21: I sure hope you’re right, and I agree about the House and White House. But as you know, the Senate map is a killer this year since we have to pick up at least one Senate seat due to Manchin’s
chickening outretirement. I think holding current Dem seats is doable though hard, but I’m not seeing a pickup opportunity that seems realistic. Maaaaaybe Allred, but Texas — woof. What am I missing?WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes, mean and nasty does a better job of getting the meaning across!
I still think of that collective behavior as ugly, but it’s a lot harder to misinterpret mean and nasty.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: We use the royal when we feel like it.
Miss Bianca
@RaflW: I agree with you. But I’m also struck by the cognitive dissonance of the GOP mindset.
I mean, take some of my local GOP leaders. Some of them are just utter bad-faith monsters, some of them seem to be operating in good faith and really trying to govern. But even these folks, who I find personally affable and governmentally effective, start spewing these garbage GOP talking points about the border and knee-jerk 2nd Amendment absolutism and expressing their contempt for Democrats like Michael Bennet and I’m just like…”whut.da.fuq.”
hueyplong
@WaterGirl: MTG is such an ugly person that I’d call her hideous if she inhabited Charlize Theron’s “Two Days in the Valley” body.
Yarrow
@RaflW: I saw it. I had high hopes for it at the beginning but in the end I thought it fell flat. They pulled their punches. Still, glad to see them skewering Republicans for being hypocrites and how much they suck up to TFG.
This morning on Willie Geist’s show he showed one short clip from last night’s SNL. Guess what it was about – it was Colin Jost ]on Weekend Update making a “joke” about Biden being old. I know, total shocker. *eyeroll* You’d think even the comedians would be tired of making that joke over and over again. It’s so lame.
WaterGirl
@John Cole: Oh my god, I hated PJ O’Rourke!
He was the guy who worked for AP, right? He brought shame to AP and he could single-handedly make my blood pressure rise during the Obama years.
I never noticed flashes of humor.
RaflW
@Miss Bianca: Politicians now operate in such closed, sorted circles that there’s few people in the right place (and willing and safe) to say “This town is (30%? 45%?) Democrats. We’re your neighbors. Some of us may even cross-ticket to vote for you. WE’RE NOT MONSTERS. Stop it. Shame on you.”
WaterGirl
@hueyplong: I do think the inner ugliness can shine through and make an otherwise attractive person look unattractive, repulsive, even.
RaflW
@Yarrow: Some of Weekend Update’s humor is really edgy. And some of it, like the Biden is old crap, is so rote and dull. It feels like the worst of “both sides, so I’m not really partisan” ass-covering.
Scout211
@RaflW: I saw that and I liked it but I really didn’t see any humor in it at all. It was (as some news sites said today) actually quite shaming. Usually the cold open has people laughing out loud.
OTOH, I can get behind the shaming of those GOP members 100%. So I do approve. :)
sab
@WaterGirl: Yep. Kari Lake and Elise Stefanik.
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
We don’t need a pickup. We just need to hold everything except WV and we’ll have 50.
Omnes Omnibus
@WaterGirl: P.J. O’Rourke. Best thing he ever wrote was this.
Jackie
@RaflW: Who Ken Buck endorses to replace him in the primary will say a lot. IF he endorses anyone.
Betty Cracker
@WaterGirl: I understood what you meant. I think using “ugly” as a description of behavior might be more common in the South. My maternal grandma (from Florence, SC) used to admonish us not to “act ugly” all the time. Mostly in vain!
Scout211
Some legal news on a Sunday morning: Link
ETA: Apologies if this has already been discussed. I am just catching up on the latest.
Omnes Omnibus
@Betty Cracker: Many of us understood what she meant. Others took it as license.
trollhattan
@John Cole: His best stuff was at Car and Driver, some of which was hilarious. Recall one quip about a pickup having the handling characteristics of a front porch. The generally stodgy automotive press really needed clever irreverence, unlike the NFL needing Dennis Miller or Rush Limbaugh adding “spice” to game coverage. “He broke through the defensive line like Hillary breaking for the smorgasbord, am I right? Hay-ooh!”
Ceci n est pas mon nym
@Yarrow: Colbert keeps going there and it pisses me off every time.
It’s a repeat of every comedian telling nonstop “Gore is wooden, amirite? Har har har” jokes. Hell there are probably STILL comedians trying to get a laugh out of that one.
WeimarGerman
Isn’t being the party of the Christian neo-fascists enough to strike comity? F’em. Add DC and PR as states, increase SCOTUS to 13, undo Citizens United, add 100 Reps to the House, change filibuster, undo gerrymandering, restore all health care rights, …
I am so tired of people arguing that changing the rules may bite the Dems when GOP comes into power. Change the rules so democracy is empowered and the current GOP will never come into power again.
rikyrah
Kenny has another one up.
He is spitting fire 🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽🙌🏽
https://twitter.com/2RawTooReal/status/1761790794166423733?t=kq74v-JV4CpUiaLndHHFrw&s=19
matt
Her trash sister Lauren is already on the way out. I think that particular style is going to die off.
jimmiraybob
Random Thought No. 1
I watched a clip of Trump addressing the Black Conservative Federation’s annual gala, the one where he tells the audience that they have so much in common and why they love him so much because of his mug shot and golden sneakers.
I got the very distinct vibe of a 1860s plantation master on the front porch of the big house addressing the assembled slaves and telling them about all the things that they have in common* and why they love him so much.
*for instance, he owns a whip and they get whipped.
Now, back to trying to organize thoughts.
Melancholy Jaques
@Betty Cracker:
I agree, but it doesn’t seem to hurt Republicans as much as it should. The normies are either unaware or impervious.
Jackie
@Omnes Omnibus: You beat me to it!
Almost Retired
I actually think the Dems are doing a pretty good job of trying to make her the face of the Republican party. And in one of his many own goals, Kevin McCarthy elevated her status within the party – emboldening her and making other R’s reluctant to rein her in. Thus the State of the Union response…..
Madeleine
@Omnes Omnibus: “Nasty,” as you suggest, or “braying ninny.” And neither has the sexist aura. I’m also with Miss Bianca.
TBone
Coy. Alluring. Innocent. Seductive. Trapped. Helpless. Powerful. Brilliant. Deceptive. Longing. Strategic. Cruel. Nimble. Transactional. Kind. Sometimes all of these adjectives (and more) are wrapped up in a single package that has enough faceted weapons to win. To contain multitudes requires skill earned by the wizened which is rarely present in the young, but presenting pretty bait can catch the prize. We should use everything in our considerable cache.
Sure Lurkalot
@Sister Golden Bear: Agree on all points.
However, I find it fair game to point out Greene’s hypocrisy about her fundy Christian women/sex advice, i.e. her verified infidelities.
Yeah, whatevs, Marge. Do as I say, not as I do.
Betty Cracker
@Baud: I thought we had 50 (if you count King and Sinema) now?
Baud
@Betty Cracker:
We currently have 51. We gained one in 2022.
ETA: Fetterman
Splitting Image
@Yarrow:
Joe Biden is so old he probably remembers when Saturday Night Live was funny.
Jackie
@smith:
Pudd’n Boots thinks he’s funny and has a genuine smile and laugh. 🙄
Betty Cracker
@Baud: D’oh — how could I forget Big Bad John?! Thanks! I feel loads better! 😊
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Huh. Maybe that should have been the only thing he wrote.
He wrote totally slanted articles for AP, which is supposed to be writing facts, and gets quoted by fucking every news outlet.
Sister Machine Gun of Quiet Harmony
We should never use misogynistic language, jokes, et al. We should absolutely make Trump and Greene the faces of the GOP, not to promote misogyny, but because it’s accurate. Nonetheless, revulsion to her could help us in some cases. Brogressives are misogynistic. Maybe if they are disgusted enough, some won’t vote third party. Her obnoxious behavior will turn off some right leaning normies. Ideally, I’d like them disgusted, and skipping the vote.
Quadrillipede
I mean, I know why I’m not mentioning this… 🤢
Another Scott
@SiubhanDuinne: You could be right – I was thinking of something a few months ago.
Thanks.
Cheers,
Scott.
Sister Golden Bear
@Sure Lurkalot:
I’m also against slut shaming, but I definitely agree her hypocrisy is a legit target (since that’s a different thing).
Josie
@Sure Lurkalot:
Good grief! Was this in a speech or an essay by her? I’d love to see Alexandra Petri do a write-up on this.
Cacti
She does give strong psycho ex-wife vibes.
WaterGirl
@Betty Cracker: @Omnes Omnibus:
Thank you. I thought people knew me well enough to know that I wouldn’t put up a “hey, let’s bash women about their looks” post.
Jackie
Oh lord! They’re actually sitting at Pence’s knee asking for his sage knowledge and advice?🤦🏼♀️
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@MattF: I was thinking that, too. Her face has that flattened look I’ve seen in pictures of women in long-term physical abuse situations, where they have been beaten by their partner for years. Creepy.
realbtl
@WaterGirl: FWIW my Texas grandmother (b. late 1890s) used ugly in the same way, to describe the inner person.
TBone
@Jackie: mother knows best. Bless her heart.
Another Scott
@WaterGirl: Are you thinking of Ron Fournier?
Cheers,
Scott.
WaterGirl
@Jackie: This is succinct, I think, but catches all the important points.
No, that describes Pence, so that’s not quite right.
Be a toady, always, never doing anything that would make Trump want to have you killed.
WaterGirl
@Another Scott: hmm. Definitely him, too. But I recall being plenty pissed off at PJ O’Rourke.
Perhaps I am conflating them, but I loathed both of them with the heat of at least a hundred suns.
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@WaterGirl: I first experienced that in college, when after a really cute guy dated a friend of mine and treated her horribly, he no longer was cute to me. All I could see was what a jerk he was. His behavior changed how he appeared to me.
TBone
@A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan): rather neanderthal to me.
cain
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: That could explain why she is what she is. I’ve always believed that behind a woman like Marg there is some asshole male that or the patriarchal system that made that way. Not 100% mind you as we still have agency but it can definitely do things to you.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: 😂
bjacques
I’m with Miss Bianca, Omnes, and Yarrow. Resorting to sexism and similar tactics, besides being the mark of a shitty person, is fighting the enemy on their home territory. There are plenty of blunt or witty ways to say “that’s the stupidest goddamn thing I’ve ever heard (of)” or “good thing it wasn’t illegal when you did it”. Pants them on live TV and other public forums. Sometimes Schiff or Raskin tees off on the likes of MTG or a clown. Even Biden does it occasionally, when he’s got nothing to lose–as regards Trump. Democratic partisans and surrogates have barely begun to tap the possibilities. and too often pull their punches. The poetry of scorn will be made all the sweeter by the wailing of the Village pundits over Democratic rudeness. The British are really good at this. Hire Armando Iannucci.
Eyeroller
@WaterGirl: I don’t see any evidence PJ ever worked for AP. He was primarily a magazine journalist and a book author. He worked with Bill Maher and did other film and TV work as well.
Omnes Omnibus
@Eyeroller: Yeah, I think she’s off on this. Not to say that O’Rourke couldn’t be offensive. He just could be funny as well.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@horatius:
@Sister Golden Bear:
Don’t want to put words in horatius’s mouth but I think he or she was commenting on the fact that Marge’s numerous extramarital affairs are hardly mentioned by the DC press corps, who are definitely not above slut shaming, as we all know from the days when Bill Clinton was POTUS.
So it is weird that the Beltway press is giving her a pass on being a slutty slut and also the obvious hypocrisy lecturing others to live up to family values she can’t seem to adhere to herself. I don’t know if it’s just more evidence that IOKIYAR or what but it’s weird and a little infuriating if you’re a Democrat who, say, supported Clinton or more broadly been accused of hypocrisy for say, for example, not living in abject poverty while advocating for more generous assistance for poor people. Or, not that I ever thought much of the guy but why was Elliot Spitzer drummed out of politics when Gaetz and Greene get free passes?
Eyeroller
@Omnes Omnibus: If he were alive he’d probably be making bank on substack, especially given the near-demise of magazines. Contra what JC said above though, he died just a little over 2 years ago.
WaterGirl
@Eyeroller: @Omnes Omnibus:
Yeah, the AP part was Ron Fournier, as noted by Another Scott. So as I said in my response to Another Scott, I was conflating the two in my original comment.
But PJ O’Rourke wrote a lot of smarmy stuff about Obama, and I loathed him.
I loathed Ron Fournier at AP every day of the Obama Administration.
Omnes Omnibus
@Eyeroller:
To be fair, the last two years could seem like a decade.
Yarrow
@WaterGirl: Your writing wasn’t clear. As I said above, I have no idea what you were getting at in your post. I can understand how people thought you were bashing MTG’s looks. It may be out of character for you but people do things that are out of character. Some people may have thought that was what you were doing and went along with it.
Miss Bianca
@bjacques:
Hell, hire Tony Jay!
Miss Bianca
@Yarrow: No, I knew what WaterGirl was trying to say with the word “ugly”.
I was objecting to the idea that late-night comedians guffawing “She so ugly!” was something worth applauding.
MomSense
Part of me says that knocking MTG’s appearance is fair game given the horrible things they say about our VP’s appearance BUT I just don’t want to become like them. Fortunately there is plenty to criticize them about, especially MTG who is as stupid as she is mean. I can’t help but think that if our media weren’t as pathetic as it is these ignoranuses would never have been elected and certainly wouldn’t have the platforms and fundraising ability that they have. It’s painful watching how debased our politics has become.
Anyway – I’m in the final hour and 15 of my second and hopefully last open house. I said I would hold offers until after and I am really ready to be finished with this stage of things.
Citizen Alan
@smith: Conservatives are the worst. But conservative women are the worst of the worst. Evil creatures who hate themselves and are furious at the existence of other women who don’t hate themselves.
Soprano2
@Yarrow: I agree, they’re beating it to death. It’s not funny anymore.
Someone was saying on the other thread that Newsom promoting Biden’s accomplishments was done for self-serving reasons. I was going to reply but the thread is dead, so I’ll say it here – at least it wasn’t Adam Schiff on Bill Maher’s show remaining silent when Bill said the people protesting the violence in Gaza are all “pro-Hamas”. I was appalled that no one pushed back on that chacterization. It’s terrible to let that pass anywhere, it’s totally Republican framing. Schiff is usually better than that, I was terribly disappointed. I think the other panelist was Seth Rogen.
Gretchen
Remember when Biden tricked Republicans at a previous SOTU into promising not to cut Social Security? And the time MTG yelled out at him something like you lie? I wonder if he will be ready with a quip to turn that around on her if she pulls something like that again?]
A woman from anywhere (formerly Mohagan)
@Betty Cracker: My mother, who grew up in Roanoke, VA, also used that phrase to describe behavior. I never heard it from anyone else in N CA.
Citizen Alan
@hueyplong: I think a lot of it is cultural venecular. She is from georgia. And in the South, “acting ugly” is an expression that refers to displaying hatefulness and meanness. She is an ugly person in a way that has nothing to do with her physical attributes. Ugliness radiates out from her in a way that literally makes it difficult for me to look at her face without being repulsed.
Soprano2
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: They need to ban themselves from telling those jokes because it’s lazy. I had to ban myself from buying black clothes for awhile for the same reason.
Soprano2
@Melancholy Jaques: I think normal people don’t watch it that much so they aren’t aware of it.
WaterGirl
@Citizen Alan: I grew up in Chicago, and ugly referred to the same thing there – hateful, mean, etc.
like a metaphor
someone on youtube yesterday was calling her My Tragic Girlfriend. hehheh
Gretchen
@MomSense: there’s plenty to go after in Greene’s behavior without going after her looks. I’m hoping Biden will be ready with a quip if she behaves badly at the SOTU.
Lyrebird
I agree and I also think that going there helps give her a pass. I know I will probably offend some of our first-amendment champions, but with Congressional Rs dehumanizing Secy Majorkas and what was that vileness from Sen Cotton with the tech CEO from Singapore? vomit emoji. And that sht is dayngerous.
Tehanu
@Miss Bianca:
Hear, hear!And as for Marge, as several have said, there’s lots to criticize about her in ways that will both point out her hypocrisy and meanness AND will make conservatives notice how unfeminine she is by their sexist standards.
Shalimar
@Omnes Omnibus: I thought Parliament of Whores was excellent 30 years ago. I was an extreme anti-Reagan liberal so O’Rourke’s politics were never mine, but he was funny, and everyone can laugh at ways our government is fucked up. I do not feel any nostalgic longing to ever re-read it. Leave the past in the past.
wjca
Of course, you don’t have to actually do (or fail to do) anything. TIFG is entirely capable of deciding that you’ve got to go for reasons that have nothing to do with you. Or even for no perceptible reason at all.
Martin
Watergirl is coming over to my way of thinking.
Any kind of ‘convention’ or ‘norm’ exists as a mutual agreement among parties. That’s how it’s enforced – we pre-agree to not do it. Once one party breaks that, that convention and norm no longer exists. If one party is still supporting it while the other isn’t, they’re fucking idiots, because the other party will NEVER come back to that agreement if there is no cost to do so – and there isn’t because the other party is doing it for free.
You may argue ‘but we should have that norm’ and I would agree with you, but the need for the norm won’t be internalized until it’s gone. You need to make the other party say ‘but that’s not fair’ to which you reply – ok, yes, we agree, but why should we adhere to this norm if you are unwilling to? And Dems LOVE adhering to rules which only they abide by. If you want to signal to your base that a norm should be there – then message that way. Say ‘we will not consider this Supreme Court justice nomination because the GOP in the past has refused to consider ours. We think this practice is bad for the country, but we’re not going to play by two different set of rules here. If the GOP agree to a set of practices and actually hold themselves to them, we will agree to do the same’.
So yes, Democrats need to play by the rules as they are – which is the rules that the GOP play by. Out of bounds in sports is enforced by some chalk on the ground and a mutual agreement to respect that chalk. Once one party refuses to do so, then out of bounds no longer exists and operating as though it does means you’re an idiot.
Omnes Omnibus
@Martin: It depends what those rules and norms are. They lie about us. Is it okay to lie about them? I say no. We are supposed to be the good guys. We need to keep that in mind.
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: The problem is, we tell the truth about them and people *think* we’re lying.
wjca
But actually lying isn’t the solution to that problem.
Odie Hugh Manatee
MTG is the face of the 21st century KKK, Trump’s Republican party. It’s racist, white and uses Christianity for a shield.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Yup, as they lie their teeth off and the press reports it as fact, we need to keep doing the same thing we have been doing for decades.
It’ll work this time!
karen marie
@Yarrow: I thought it was great. She thinks people should have their genitals inspected. Given her body shape, she should shut up about judging what looks “feminine.”
Miss Bianca
@wjca: Never said it was.
Matt McIrvin
@Soprano2: I just saw a pro-Palestinian protest going on in Portsmouth, NH. Lots of “genocide Joe” rhetoric going on there.
Here’s the thing: along with the legit protesting about Netanyahu and murdered children, there was lots of “from the river to the sea” chanting. Which means, you know, eliminate Israel and drive out the Jews.
Now, they may not have known what the stuff they were saying actually literally meant.
Citizen Alan
@Melancholy Jaques: Well look at it this way. GOP voters in the rural South don’t have any problems with Greene because she perfectly represents their beliefs and culture. GOP voters outside of the south are probably horrified by her. But then they just shrug, and say “Eh, what can you do? It’s the South. At least she votes the way I want on most issues.”