Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

Shallow, uninformed, and lacking identity

When do the post office & the dmv weigh in on the wuhan virus?

Sadly, media malpractice has become standard practice.

Fani Willis claps back at Trump chihuahua, Jim Jordan.

It is possible to do the right thing without the promise of a cookie.

“Cheese and Kraken paired together for the appetizer trial.”

Ah, the different things are different argument.

Red lights blinking on democracyā€™s dashboard

The US Supreme Court is on the ballot in november.

Meanwhile over at truth Social, the former president is busy confessing to crimes.

“They not like us!” (that’s for sure!)

Republicans: ā€œAbortion is murder but you can take a bus to get one.ā€ Easy peasy.

Wow, you are pre-disappointed. How surprising.

Fight them, without becoming them!

with the Kraken taking a plea, the Cheese stands alone.

It may be funny to you motherfucker, but itā€™s not funny to me.

FFS people, this was a good thing. take the win.

We cannot abandon the truth and remain a free nation.

Is it irresponsible to speculate? It is irresponsible not to.

Maybe you would prefer that we take Joelle’s side in ALL CAPS?

If you are in line to indict donald trump, stay in line.

Spilling the end game before they can coat it in frankl luntz-approved dogwhistles.

Only Democrats have agency, apparently.

It’s not hopeless, and we’re not helpless.

You are here: Home / Politics / Trump Indictments / Supreme Court Grants Cert On Immunity Case

Supreme Court Grants Cert On Immunity Case

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DC Indictment News

Yikes. This was not what I expected would happen!

I am not a lawyer, but it seems guaranteed that this will delay the D.C. case until end of summer, unless they did not grant a stay at the same time.

More details to come.

Update:

.

Here’s the order.

Supreme Court Grants Cert On Immunity Case

They seem to not call it a stay, but it sure sounds like the equivalent of a stay, since the D.C. trial cannot resume until SCOTUS rules on this.

Update 2: there will definitely be cake, but of the drown your sorrows variety.

Reader Interactions

245Comments

  4. 4.

    bbleh

    Hadn’t noticed that it was the Special Counsel who requested it be treated as an application for cert. Ā That’s … an interesting wrinkle.

  8. 8.

    TBone

    Goddamnit CLARENCE!Ā  Luttig says there will be dissent from the Court on the offenses charged by Jack Smith.Ā  I wish I could be confident like he is right now.

  9. 9.

    japa21

    Gee, in 2000, they were pretty much able to do everything within about a week after they decided to gear the case. Of course doing so was beneficial to the Republicans. Here, delay is beneficial to the Republicans.

    The only thing that could make this court look worse than they already do is if they decided that yes, the immunity argument is valid, but like in 2000, this should not be considered precedent and is valid only for this case.

    This SCOTUS is a fucking joke.

  10. 10.

    JPL

    @Baud: Will immunity apply to the GA case, if that moves forward?

    I assume he walks without any accountability, like he has throughout his life.

  13. 13.

    japa21

    @bbleh: I believe that was a while back when he wanted SCOTUS to make a ruling on the issue of immunity and not waste time on the District level.Ā  They refused to at that time and sent it back to the District.

  16. 16.

    Baud

    @japa21:

    No, he must have done it again, according to the order.Ā  It might have been in the alternative. Deny the stay, or grant right away.Ā  I’d have to look.

  17. 17.

    Old School

    @Baud:

    No chance of a trial before the election.

    Harry Litman seems to think that means the trial will be August/September.Ā  You think other delays are likely?

  21. 21.

    Wyatt Salamanca

    The fix is in. Thomas, Roberts, Alito and the three stooges appointed by Trump should all burn in Hell.

  23. 23.

    bbleh

    @cain: yes he is, and no I can’t. Ā Maybe he just decided let’s get this done once and for all? Ā I dunno — ask the Legal Eagles. Ā I am but a simple unfrozen caveman blog commenter.

  25. 25.

    cain

    @JPL: He’s not getting away from Lelitia James – she’s going to bankrupt him. The state cases are going to finish him off and he has no immunity there.

    Ultimately, he’s going to lose the election because he’s losing cash fast. This is the end stage. Eventually, the federal courts are going catch up even if it is after the election.

  26. 26.

    Baud

    @cain:

    Honestly, a negative Supreme.Court ruling could hopefully wake voters up to the risk. It’s early, but many seem to be sleepwalking.

  28. 28.

    TBone

    @japa21: Nicole asked Luttig how this might go, Luttig responded that he expects some (in)Justices to stand up for the rule of law (dissent against Rump being able to retain power despite being voted out).

  29. 29.

    pat

    This should all have been started months, YEARS ago.Ā  Thank you merrick and I hope you are feeling just a bit disrespected right now.

    And where the heck are the emojis?

  32. 32.

    cain

    @Baud: The SCOTUS helping Republicans is only going to make things easier for us because it shows that the GOP is serious about what they are talking about and we are in fact losing our rights and it’s not conjecture.

  34. 34.

    WaterGirl

    @Baud: Confident that it was 3 months. Ā They had 3 months left before trial when the clock stopped. Ā So that’s the rule of thumb for what would be tacked on once the trial was able to resume.

  35. 35.

    cain

    @prostratedragon:

    They can’t just give immunity even if they pulled a 2000 that would be very disturbing because it means people can do crimes and then get off on it.

    They are walking on dangerous ground right now. I think Jack is definitely trying to get them to make a mistake.

  36. 36.

    WaterGirl

    @JPL: The thing is, they said the request for stay was moot. Ā So they aren’t calling it a stay, but everything is halted in D.C. until the SCOTUS ruling has been issued.

    So maybe they had 4 to grant cert but NOT the 5 needed for a stay? Ā So they’re halting things but calling it by another name because they didn’t have 5?

  39. 39.

    AlaskaReader

    @Baud: We voters will do what we can, Ā but there is every chance we could have an order from the court by June and, as far as can be determined today, by people far more qualified than I, they still say it’s possible a trial could start in August.

    To say no chance of trial before election may be premature.

  40. 40.

    Sanjeevs

    @prostratedragon: They will decide on the immunity case after the election results are in.

    The justice system in this country is a farce. Attempt a coup, steal the nations secrets, engage in fraud and obstruction on an industrial scale all with zero consequences.

    Anf the DoJ Ā is just as responsible as the FedSoc judges for this state of affairs.

  41. 41.

    prostratedragon

    @Baud:Ā  So that means possibly there were not 5 votes for a naked stay? Do I have thst right? Answered elsewhere.

  43. 43.

    TBone

    @Baud: if immunity is granted, votes won’t matter anymore.Ā  If I’m understanding all this correctly.Ā  I’m really shook.Ā  The Nazis took the rule of law and wiped their asses with it.

  50. 50.

    CaseyL

    @Baud: If Trump has immunity for anything he does, he can order anyone killed: opponents, voters, Senators, Reps, judges.

    All he has to do is not be convicted in the Senate.

    Easy peasy.

  69. 69.

    Weapon X

    @CaseyL: If such immunity is deemed to exist, it currently resides with Joe Biden, not Donald Trump. Do you really think this Supreme Court is going to hand Joe Biden that card right before the election? And expect him not to play it? My guess is that 4 justices felt it was important to more explicitly define the limits of presidential immunity.

  70. 70.

    CaseyL

    @WaterGirl: A few blown-up polling places, some armed militia menacing voters in line, or – heck, why not go all out? – work with international mobsters to put a hit on the President and Vice President.

    If the law won’t stop him, and the courts won’t stop him, and he stands to lose everything if he’s. not in the White House in 2025, why wouldn’t he?

    I think that’s what TBone is getting at.

  73. 73.

    prostratedragon

    Has it been mentioned that NYS appeals judge has restored the guy’s business licenses and allowed him to seek loans from NY banks? The full fine is still in place and counting down on the same clock. I think the decision will be reviewed by a full panel. AG James had already pointd out that under her office’s interpretation, he would be permitted to seek a bond from licensed bailbondsmen.

    Thread 1; Thread 2

  75. 75.

    Quinerly

    Haven’t read any comments.

    Listening to MSNBC coverage.

    Plus, have my lawyer hat on.

    Very disturbing. Obviously, there are at least 2 Justices that think Trump has immunity re the the particular charges here.

    Given the make up of the Court and the fact the Court took this case, I am not hopeful. Plus, I am physically ill.

  77. 77.

    TBone

    I’m sorry I was wavering in my confidence.Ā  I’ll keep my fears out of view so I’m not trolling anyone by accident.

  79. 79.

    Ken

    @cain: They are walking on dangerous ground right now.

    Am I the only one who imagines them ruling that Trump has immunity, and waking up the next morning in a prison cell in an undisclosed location with a note from Biden saying “let’s discuss this, shall we?”

  80. 80.

    VFX Lurker

    @schrodingers_cat: Can a BJ lawyer explain whatā€™s going on in English. Kthx.

    @Ohio Mom: Yes, someone talk to us like we are little children. It wonā€™t insult me. Thanks from me too.

    Here’s how it’s being reported inĀ The Los Angeles Times. Short version: justice is delayed.

    Supreme Court will hear Trumpā€™s claim of immunity from prosecution, delaying his trial

    BY DAVID G. SAVAGE | STAFF WRITER
    FEB. 28, 2024 2:20 PM PT

    WASHINGTONĀ ā€”Ā 

    The Supreme Court announced Wednesday it will hear arguments and issue a decision on whether former President Trump is immune from prosecution for the Jan. 6 mob attack on the U.S. Capitol.

    Even if the justices ultimately rule against Trump, their decision to intervene now will delay his trial for several months, casting doubt on whether the criminal case could go to a jury before the fall election campaign.

    The justices said it will hear arguments on April 22.

    They said they will decide the following question: Whether ā€” and if so, to what extent ā€” a former president enjoys immunity from criminal prosecution for conduct alleged to involve official acts during his tenure in office?

    The justices said nothing more. …

  81. 81.

    WaterGirl

    @CaseyL: I’m sure.

    We can whip ourselves into a panic, with all sorts of horrifying WHAT IFs.

    Or we can stay calm, and not go down the WHAT IF road that is filled with terrifying and paralyzing thoughts, and be even more determined to work our asses off.

    I feel sick at the moment, with today’s news, but I’m going for door #2.

    And I hope everyone here will join me.

  83. 83.

    Doc Sardonic

    Keep in mind IANAL, but if the Court rules that a president has immunity for his actions during his term, then the second that ruling goes down Biden has carte blanche

  85. 85.

    schrodingers_cat

    @VFX Lurker: I don’t really see how this is good for the Orange Man. Having his wrongdoings discussed when the fall campaign is in full swing. Delay may be a good legal strategy (IANAL) but I don’t think that its a riskless political strategy for the Orange One.

  87. 87.

    Ruckus

    The supreme court does not always go the way we think it should.Ā 

    I’m not too hopeful but the fact that they are going ahead this quick to me says it goes one of two ways. Either SFB is completely screwed – and that’s my guess, or he’s completely free. And I don’t see completely free. The conservative side of the bench may want to give him a break but think what that would do for the country. Many of the people that voted for SFB do not be seeming to want to vote for him now because I think that voting for him now that he’s shown how big an asshole he really is and how many cases he’s lost, and likely will lose the election if what I’m seeing now. People complain about Joe Biden’s age but SFB is only 3-4 yrs younger and SFB’s decline is becoming very obvious. At the rate he’s falling apart I don’t see him as even being able to take the oath of office if he did win. And that doesn’t count if he has to attend a hearing on some of the many felonies he’s charged with.

    The supreme court may mostly be conservatives but if they clear SFB what does that say about them and the law? And we’ve got what 8 months to vote for it or Joe Biden, and I’m sure that SFB would get votes. But enough votes? As we get closer to voting I think some of the possibles for him will at least fall by the wayside and not vote.

  88. 88.

    VFX Lurker

    @WaterGirl:

    Iā€™m sure.

    We can whip ourselves into a panic, with all sorts of horrifying WHAT IFs.

    Or we can stay calm, and not go down the WHAT IF road that is filled with terrifying and paralyzing thoughts, and be even more determined to work our asses off.

    I feel sick at the moment, with todayā€™s news, but Iā€™m going for door #2.

    And I hope everyone here will join me.

    Hear, hear! Vote, donate and volunteer!

    I’ve got the first two down (many thanks to Balloon-Juice for the myriad fundraisers!), but I need to write more Postcards to Voters.

  91. 91.

    Jeffro

    @cain:

    trumpā€™s not getting away from Lelitia James ā€“ sheā€™s going to bankrupt him. The state cases are going to finish him off and he has no immunity there.

    Ultimately, heā€™s going to lose the election because heā€™s losing cash fast. This is the end stage. Eventually, the federal courts are going catch up even if it is after the election.

    I hope he hears Obama laughing at him every night as he falls asleep.

  93. 93.

    cain

    @Ken:

    Am I the only one who imagines them ruling that Trump has immunity, and waking up the next morning in a prison cell in an undisclosed location with a note from Biden saying ā€œletā€™sĀ discussĀ this, shall we?ā€

    I think @Weapon X

    is correct that the justice wants to define the limits of presidential immunity. I don’t know why they would want to delay proceedings. Regardless, they can’t stop the state cases and they are going to hurt him hard. He’s a sitting duck as he’s already guilty and AGs are going to get their pound of beef and no amount of presidential immunity is going to help since it’s about Trump Inc. fraud. He’s fucked.

    @TBone – when you panic, you trigger other people who have anxiety issues. So it’s worth not putting that in display. That goes for the rest of you. Be kind to the other folks who are also nervous.

    I have every confidence Trump is fucked.

  95. 95.

    Jeffro

    @Ken:Am I the only one who imagines them ruling that Trump has immunity, and waking up the next morning in a prison cell in an undisclosed location with a note from Biden saying ā€œletā€™s discuss this, shall we?ā€

    I honestly hope that at some point soon, Dark Brandon holds a presser and reminds folks that if SCOTUS says a president has full immunity for anything and everything he does while in office, quote, “I’m canceling the election and throwing trump in jail. Ā Bite me.”

  100. 100.

    Princess

    Iā€™ve always thought ā€” and have said here before ā€” that I thought theyā€™d hear this case. I have also said that I believe itā€™s the goal of the Fed Soc and the judges they own to create a president who is above the law so they can create the Christo-fascist USA of their dreams. Remember: Kavanagh got Trumpā€™s attention for writing something reinforcing presidential powers. I say all this because of the Opus Dei people I know. They want a Franco or a Salazar. (Iā€™d be glad to be wrong. Obvs. This is just my opinion.)

  104. 104.

    japa21

    @prostratedragon: I was going to say something similar.Ā  A lot of the case against Trump is that his actions were not part of official duties and even if there is immunity for official actions that does not apply in this case.Ā  It is Trump who is saying these where part of his official duties and thus he would have to prove that and can use that as part of an appeal after being found guilty.

  105. 105.

    xephyr

    Given what a miserable excuse for a Supreme Court this is, it shouldn’t be surprising, but still…

  106. 106.

    la caterina

    @cain: I agree that the financial hit will be worse for Trump than any criminal conviction. Within four weeks he will either declare personal bankruptcy or Tish will grab his bank accounts and start auctioning off buildings and/or gold courses. Then the whole world will know he’s broke.

  107. 107.

    Quinerly

    @WaterGirl:

    Oh, I was fine before I heard this. Coming off of a great trip to Bisbee, AZ. Old friends coming in Sun for 2 weeks. I will be here with them for a week, then I take off for a week to Tucson. They just lost their dog so they are itching to babysit mine. JoJo really is a homebody.

    Been working in the yard and relaxing on my winter patio that my friends, Bogart and Miguel, helped me put in last summer. Drinking Modelo. I am out of PBR šŸ˜

    This is very disturbing and sickening news. And, I am not trolling to weaken moral. Anyone who knows anything should feel sick to their stomach….the SC should have never taken this case….Something is VERY, VERY WRONG. End of story.

  110. 110.

    trnc

    @Ken:Ā ā€‹
     

    Am I the only one who imagines them ruling that Trump has immunity, and waking up the next morning in a prison cell in an undisclosed location with a note from Biden saying ā€œletā€™s discuss this, shall we?ā€

    You probably aren’t the only person to imagine that, but it’s a pipe dream. First, it’s not in Biden’s DNA to do something like that, regardless of whether he gets literally unrestricted power. Second, said immunity would only apply to the president, not to anyone else he would need to take any action remotely like that.

  111. 111.

    Jeffro

    @Sanjeevs:The justice system in this country is a farce. Attempt a coup, steal the nations secrets, engage in fraud and obstruction on an industrial scale all with zero consequences.

    co-signed

    This all should have been squared away on the steps of the Capitol, the morning of January 7th, 2021.

  112. 112.

    Elizabelle

    @cain:

    I have every confidence Trump is fucked.

    I agree. Ā And wanted to see that very sentence again.

    Jackals and lawyers: Ā how quickly might the “Supreme” Court rule? Ā Do they ever hand down a ruling in record time? Ā I mean, there is a presidential election this November.

  113. 113.

    oldgold

    Since Bush v. Gore, it has been clear that this is a deeply corrupt court.

    There is no legitimate reason for this Court to take up this question. None.

    They really should stop teaching Constitutional law in our nation’s law schools.Ā  It simply does not exist.

  115. 115.

    David šŸŒˆ ā˜˜The Establishmentā˜˜šŸŒˆ Koch

    Hey – what’s all this moping around?

     

    Was it over when the Supreme Court bombed Pearl Harbor?

  116. 116.

    oldgold

     

    @Elizabelle: “Do they ever hand down a ruling in record time?”

    Yes, when it serves their masters. See Bush v. Gore.

    In this case, they will not.

  118. 118.

    bjacques

    This is irritating but I was expecting the appeals process in the criminal cases to drag well beyond the election anyhow. So Iā€™m with cain and la caterina. In the civil trials, weā€™re getting the almost instant gratification of watching Trump financially flayed like Marsyas before our eyes.

  120. 120.

    Quinerly

    “Huge win for Donald Trump based on the time clock.”

    Harry Littman or some SC practicing atty with a lot more experience than I have.

    MSNBC

    SC is rewarding Trump with delay.

    I’ll say it again…absolutely no reason for the Supremes to take this case other than to give Trump what he wants…..DELAY.

    Then take it to the next step….there are a sizeable # of justices who are in the camp of Trump being granted immunity for “the actions he is accused of ” re 1/6.

    ACCUSED seems to be an operative word.

  122. 122.

    Snarki, child of Loki

    The Supremely Corrupt Assholes want to put off prez immunity untilĀ  Biden can’t “Seal-team 6” Trump.

     

    Forgiveness > Permission.Ā  Do it now.

  124. 124.

    JWR

    @Jeffro:

    ā€œIā€™m canceling the election and throwing trump in jail. Bite me.ā€

    Hey, it was one of his official essential duties. ;)

  125. 125.

    Quinerly

    @MazeDancer:

    Come sit by me in my yard, throw the ball for oblivious JoJo. Drink cheap beer. We are listening to the same analysis on MSNBC.

    Not good. Very disturbing day.

    The entire ruling is to help Trump win the election.

  127. 127.

    Elizabelle

    Not going to waste sleep over this. Ā It is somewhat out of our hands. Ā Other than:

    working our best to get Democrats elected, as we were already going to do.

    Dragging out the pussy hats and joining some marches before the Supreme Court, to remind them that they are accountable. Ā Believe it or not.

    Maybe the Supremes have just convinced Biden he needs to increase their number to 13. Ā WTG!

  129. 129.

    topclimber

    @Baud: If Trump wins re-election what does it matter what the federal courts decide? He will pardon his own ass, fire all the prosecutors and call out the military (at least the national guard in the secesh states) to put down the riots that will provoke.

    If he loses the vote he will eventually face the consequences of court verdicts. There is just no way around the documents case. Cannon will get old delaying the day of reckoning, but it will come.

    Sidebar:

    Merrick Garland might surprise his critics by revoking the DOJ prohibition on cases against candidates close to an election. That means headlines everyday that will make more independents and lapsed Republicans into Never Trumpers.

    Remember, too, that we’ve got ten weeks from election day to Inauguration. Keep those cases going, DOJ. No Christmas break for TFG’s lawyers (remember that one?).

    Assuming a court finds him guilty on the 1/6 case, maybe it will be clear that he IS an insurrectionist, and cannot take office under the 14th amendment.

  130. 130.

    JPL

    @Quinerly:Ā  College students rose up after innocent students were killed at Kent State during the Vietnam War.Ā  Ā I just hope that the youth realize the dangers lurking today and vote.

  131. 131.

    kalakal

    If the Supremes have any instinct for self preservation, and I think the weasels do, they willĀ not grant TFG immunity. He’s already been doing his Dollar Store Don Corleone act with Kavanaugh & Barrett – “You owe me a favor, I got you appointed” etc which will have gone down like a pint of cold sick with them. They’re arrogant so and sos who expect the world to revere them and that they got to where they are purely on their own merits. They don’t need TFG, they’re effectively untouchable. They’re going to give that up to a creature that’s already threatening them

  132. 132.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodingers_cat: Ā Yup. Ā The Supremes were already on the ballot, with Dobbs. Gun violence. Ā All their corrupt and shitty decisions.

    The dolts just reminded (sane) American voters what’s on the table again.

    We just gotta get through these next months, and win.

  133. 133.

    oldgold

    Is there any chance this could open the door for the documents case being heard earlier than expected? It appears to me that it is the easier case to prove.Ā  And, in some ways, it seems to me that a conviction there would be more damaging to Trump.

    0r, will Cannon twist this to halt the documents case?

  134. 134.

    Elizabelle

    @JPL: Ā Incidentally (to all jackals, actually): Ā I was not following the Michigan results.

    Did the young turn out in good numbers??

  135. 135.

    Soprano2

    I think the SCOTUS wants to be the ultimate decider on this question. Of course Thomas and Alito think he has immunity, they’re in the bag for him and for Republicans. The question is, are three more of them in the bag on this question too? Do they want to give this to all presidents, because I don’t think they can pull a 2000 election on this issue.

  136. 136.

    narya

    @Soprano2:

    I think the SCOTUS wants to be the ultimate decider on this question.

    This. I really didn’t think they’d let the lower court decision just stand without weighing in; that it adds further delay means nothing to them (or pleases them).

  137. 137.

    Elizabelle

    @Soprano2: Ā I would love them to decide “no immunity” and announce it PDQ, way faster than expected, because we do have an election to deal with.

    We are in unprecedented times.

  139. 139.

    Eolirin

    Honestly, as long as they don’t rule that former presidents have criminal immunity, I’m not sure the delay matters that much.

    There’s absolutely no way to know what effect a Trump criminal conviction would have on the election. It’s a huge risk in both directions. His base is currently exhibiting signs of being demoralized and exhausted, and it’s better if they stay that way. The federal cases could provoke a backlash, and they’re connected to Biden’s DoJ in a way the state cases aren’t. Letting those move forward first, and having the federal cases happen after what is hopefully a successful reelection campaign is fine…

    We always had to win the election. I’m not sure this makes it harder.

    But a bad immunity ruling? That’d be a disaster, even if we win. It’d set the stage for a complete collapse of our Democracy.

  140. 140.

    eclare

    @topclimber:

    I read an analysis that said that there is no prohibition on a trial close to election day.Ā  The prohibition is on the DOJ announcing an investigation or Indictment.Ā  The trial date is out of the DOJ’s hands, it’s up to judges now.Ā  The article used the Ted Stevens trial as one close to the election as an example.

  141. 141.

    la caterina

    @bjacques: style points to you for invoking the image of Marsayas! Marsyas! Ā The hubris!

    IAAL in NY and I’ve appeared before Judge Singh, who denied Trump a stay of the money judgment today. Ā Singh is no liberal firebrand. I fully expect Trump will get the same treatment from the full panel at the Appellate Division, i.e., PAY UP!

  145. 145.

    Cacti

    I sure am glad Merrick Garland spent 20 months with his thumb up his ass before he finally punted the case to Jack Smith. It’s really working out well and he was definitely the right man for the moment. šŸ˜’

  146. 146.

    Chris Johnson

    Huh.

    I have no idea what’s happening or what this means.

    I do know that apparently Russia’s not prepared to just pay Trump’s bond, and Mitch McConnell isn’t willing to be holding the bag for whatever’s going on: and that guy would be 100% down for coup and revolution and take-over IF it worked.

    Instead, he’s getting the hell out of Dodge.

    I’m not convinced it’s in the character of a bunch of Supreme Court justices to obliterate their own source of power in exactly the way that most undermines themselves, functionally and popularly.

    I’m fascinated that, in the big meeting with Mike Johnson and McConnell and Biden, apparently Kamala Harris was right there, the other person who’d have to be removed in order for Mike to legally become President. I wouldn’t have done that, I’d have had her across the fucking country thank you. But no, there she was, and looking quite smug.

    Cannon’s stalling, too. Not overtly playing along with Trump. Meanwhile, Trumpworld (legal version) wants to offer a much smaller bond, or just ‘trust us, he’s super wealthy and good for it’.

    I have NOOOOO idea what’s going on. We sure do live in interesting times. Maybe this is just an attempt to get as many libs to blow their gaskets at once, as possible?

  148. 148.

    Elizabelle

    @schrodingers_cat: Ā Thank you, and that I knew. Ā Wondering if young people (ie. 30-35 and younger) turned out to vote. Ā I am betting they did

    ETA: Ā And Marianne Williamson is “unsuspending” her campaign. Ā *snort

  149. 149.

    The Thin Black Duke

    As Baud and other esteemed BJers have said, there’s no magic bullet that’s going to stop Trump before November. It’s up to Americans to do the right thing and rid us of this troublesome orange buffoon. I’m far from a starry-eyed optimist, but I like our odds. I believe most people want the bad noise to go away forever, and when Trump loses, he’s gonna be gone.

  151. 151.

    Dorothy A. Winsor

    I know this isn’t the equivalent of Election Night 2016, but I feel the same. I think I just need time to process this and come to the same sane conclusions many of you are voicing.

  152. 152.

    West of the Rockies

    I think this decision will absolutely GOTV for team blue.Ā  This and Dobbs.Ā  I think Trump is on a world of hurt.

  153. 153.

    Quinerly

    @JPL:

    I know the era well.

    I was a child of those times.

    (Thanks for making me smile…your JPL handle….”if you know, you know”). Hope you are doing well.

  154. 154.

    Villago Delenda Est

    This is a victory for the treasonous orange shithead. Any delay is a victory. Justice is being denied.

  156. 156.

    VFX Lurker

    @Elizabelle: Wondering if young people (ie. 30-35 and younger) turned out to vote. Ā I am betting they did

    Because Michigan has same-day voter registration, and because young people have a habit of waiting until the last possible second, it may be a few days for all the young folks’ votes on Tuesday to get counted.

    I searched, but I did not find demographic data on turnout just yet. I may not have looked in the right place, though.

  157. 157.

    Jeffro

    I can see SCOTUS trying to pull another 1-off a la Bush vs Gore and saying, “Of course presidents don’t have full immunity…BUT…in this one case, where a Republican president was trying to fend off a Democratic victory deal with ‘reports’ of widespread cheating…what else could a responsible chief executive do but cook up a multi-part plan to violently overturn the results of an election look into it?”

    I’m getting up there in years but I have no problem with a) a protest at the SCOTUS building soon or b) a flat-out riot at the SCOTUS building later if they fuck this up. Ā Enough is enough.

    I don’t think all of them are trying to put trumpov back in office. Ā (Alito and Thomas are, of course.) Ā The rest just want to keep it from being a Biden blowout. Ā This is why Comey thought he was doing in 2016 and – oops! Ā too cute by half! Ā – look where we are now.

    QUIT FUCKING AROUND, ROBERTS.

  161. 161.

    Chris Johnson

    @Villago Delenda Est: I’m not convinced that is true.

    I’m not convinced this is going to work out well for Trump. The cost of that happening has become so ridiculous, the cost of propping the crazy failing bastard up is becoming so unsustainable. Why isn’t Russia paying his bond if he’s such a made man?

  162. 162.

    Jeffro

    @schrodingers_cat: Marianne felt so validated that she “unsuspended” her campaign, I hear.

    Dean…we tried to warn you, but now you’ve effectively lost to Marianne. Freakin’. Williamson. Ā Talk about being history’s punchline!

  164. 164.

    WaterGirl

    @topclimber:

    Merrick Garland might surprise his critics by revoking the DOJ prohibition on cases against candidates close to an election.

    Court cases have a life of their own. Ā What they don’t do is announce new investigations. Ā The legal eagles say this is a huge distinction.

  165. 165.

    Matt McIrvin

    I think I’m mostly with Teri Kanefield on this: she’s always said that we shouldn’t be putting our faith in court cases to help us with political problems. If enough Americans want Trump to be President again that he can get elected, that’s a problem the criminal justice system isn’t designed to solve.

    Nor am I fond of the idea of Biden playing dictator to save the country. I don’t think he would, anyway. That’s basically destroying democracy to save it.

  166. 166.

    VFX Lurker

    @schrodingers_cat: Some of the uncommitted vote in D primary could also come from Rs. I understand that Michigan is an open primary state.

    Yep. Registered Republicans could request and vote on the Democratic ballot, and registered Democrats could request and vote on the Republican ballot.

    I figure that cuts both ways, though. Republican voters angry with the current GOP might vote for Biden, while MAGA voters might vote “Uncommitted.”

  167. 167.

    Spanky

    @hueyplong:

    @schrodingers_cat: What it looks like to me is slow walking an eventual no-immunity ruling so that the cases are pushed out to and beyond the election.

    I see hacks.

    THIS. No way they’ll grant immunity with a Democrat sitting in the White House. But the job is to delay, delay, delay.

    Roger Taney may finally lose the mantle of worst Chief Justice, though.

  168. 168.

    Frankensteinbeck

    @Soprano2:

    I think the SCOTUS wants to be the ultimate decider on this question.

    This. Ā I donā€™t think itā€™s at all weird that 4 justices would want to hear this out and make an official proclamation of exactly where the law stands, even if everybody but Alito and Thomas plan on telling Trump heā€™s fucked. Ā They think itā€™s their job to tell him heā€™s fucked. Ā I put no weight on this as a declaration they will rule in Trumpā€™s favor.

    If the conservative 6 are happy that it helps delay things, thatā€™s a much lesser problem.

    Democrats love to panic. Ā Donā€™t give in to that urge.

  170. 170.

    topclimber

    @WaterGirl: But close to deadline cases could be brought against some of the secesh Congressmen who facilitated the failed coup.Ā  Too bad for Ted Cruz, for example.

  171. 171.

    Elizabelle

    @Frankensteinbeck: Ā Yep. Ā No panicking.

    Tonight seems like a good night to stay off internet news and hyperventilating cable hosts. (Mind you, I have no patience for cable news on slow news days either. Ā Enough.)

  173. 173.

    cain

    @SW: That’s the thing they need to also worry about. Folks like John Roberts who care about the institution – if it looks like some corrupt establishment it will no longer be an elite institution because it will have no respect.

    Finally, if we get 2 branches of govt it is time to start expanding the SCOTUS. These people are way off the norm.

  174. 174.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    I’m pretty sure that the voters are going to have to save the day since our top court has decided that Presidential immunity from crimes is something that we should consider. I really wonder if we are up to it or if it’s our turn to go fascist on the world.

    That this court thinks this is actually something to consider makes it very clear the perilous position our nation is in.

    @pat: :And where the heck are the emojis?”

    Oh fuck no, not here. Please.

  175. 175.

    Matt McIrvin

    @trnc:

    Second, said immunity would only apply to the president, not to anyone else he would need to take any action remotely like that.

    This is the main check on further coup-ing: Trump has said he’s going to pardon all the Jan. 6th insurrectionists, and he might be able to if he gets elected because they did their thing in Washington, DC which is federal territory, but in the meantime, a lot of them actually did go to jail.

    Presumably if Trump started making it clear that he’s going to, say, pardon anyone who shoots one of his political opponents, they would start spending a lot of time in other jurisdictions where he can’t pardon murder.

  176. 176.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @cain:

    Like Bush in 2000, if they go that route they will claim that it only applies to TFG’s case.

    It would be just another version of the laws applying to Democrats and not Republicans.

  177. 177.

    Edmund dantes

    Dems really should be talking about court reform a ton more so it becomes part of the conversation. Get people used to hearing about it.

    Cause a Dem trifecta is meaningless if they donā€™t also have the courts in hand to go along with it.

  178. 178.

    misterpuff

    If the MAGA base gets a whiff of Trump Presidential immunity, they will come out in droves to make it so.

    Now we know why the Turtle is giving up Minority/Majority Leader role, because if SCOTUS gives immunity, there will be no need for Senate Leaders, just the Dear Leader.

    Sorry for the cynicism.

    I just can’t right now.

  180. 180.

    patrick II

    If the decision comes after the election it really won’t matter whether he gets immunity or not. Once in power he will do what he
    wants.

  181. 181.

    Scout211

    Hey people, at least we can celebrate some good news today. Ā Trump canā€™t short sell his judgement and another judgeĀ rules Trump canā€™t be on a state ballot.

    In a surprise move, an Illinois judge has removed former President Donald Trump from the stateā€™s ballot based on the 14th Amendmentā€™s so-called ā€œinsurrectionist ban.ā€

    The decision is paused, giving Trump a short period of time to appeal.

  182. 182.

    twbrandt

    I have no idea how SCOTUS will rule on the immunity issue. Neither do you.

    I have no control over trial schedules. Neither do you.

    I DO have control over how I vote. So do you.
    I DO have the ability to engage in efforts to defeat Trump at the polls in November. So do you.

    Iā€™m not going to stress over things I have no control over, instead I am going to concentrate on things I do have control over. I hope you do too.

  183. 183.

    Hoodie

    @Jeffro: More likely, at least for those other that Alito and Thomas (who will want to declare Trump a god king), they just want to delay.Ā  They’ll eventually come up with something that defines some sort of limited immunity for official actions that will require going back to the trial court for factual/legal findings on issues like whether this or that action falls under the immunity (I would imagine this will end up being some mixed question of law and fact).Ā  Ā This means the trial on J6 will not happen before the election because all those new issues will have to go through new rounds of discovery and briefing.Ā  This way, the country does not get any verdicts on the federal cases before the election, the Supremes don’t get death threats from the Trumpistas and they get to lightly put their thumbs on the scale for Trump without leaving too many fingerprints (unlike Bush v. Gore).Ā  If Trump loses, the trial moves on.Ā  If he wins, the federal cases will be killed by Trump’s DOJ.Ā  The Court covers their asses either way.

    I guess there is a potential silver lining. Trump is pretty much assured to be the GOP nominee now; it’s unlikely any conviction could prompt the GOP to try to remove him as their nominee.Ā  They’ll be stuck with him and his legal bills.Ā  He will be more beatable than other GOP candidates and knowing the courts aren’t going to bail us out might get folks to focus on making sure he isn’t elected and quit worrying about how old Joe Biden is and whether he will give them a pony.

  184. 184.

    cain

    @Odie Hugh Manatee: They won’t be so stupid to do that. Trump’s crimes are egregious.

    The 2000 is about election and hanging chads – this is about crimes committed of which there is enough evidence of it.

    He’s already a convicted rapist/sex offender. He’s already a convicted fraudster.

    Giving this manĀ  any grace will look poorly on them to most Americans.

  185. 185.

    Chris Johnson

    What would you folks do if they ‘considered’ Trump infinite presidential immunity from all things only to go ‘lol nope, fuck you’? With Alito and Thomas seething and sulking? Assuming even they are that interested in undermining their own authority, which I’m skeptical about?

    I’m not ruling out a ‘lol fuck you’ response. Didn’t someone say that Jack Smith wanted them to consider this and consider it promptly? Does this count as running with what Jack Smith wanted them to do, because he’d calculated a way to get what he wanted while covering their already-humiliated butts?

  186. 186.

    cain

    @Scout211: Dude has so many court cases to try to delay that the delay is actually eating into his fluid cash. Once he’s bankrupted by NY – the rest of those cases are going to go to hell. He’ll have to declare bankruptcy and that means all his assets are going to be sold off.

    The stress and the drugs is going to come at him like a freight train. He’s probably goin to get another few more mini strokes and worsen his disposition.

    The delay is going to work against the GOP because by then they will be stuck with a man who can barely say his own name.

  187. 187.

    cain

    @Chris Johnson: Biden will perform some extra-judicial actions on some SCOTUS folks and then get some new ones.

    Then force Ted Cruz to go to Cancun, permanently.

    Force Paul Rand to give his land to his neighbor

    Arrest MTG for spreading dick pics.

    The list goes on! I mean, literally the SCOTUS is saying that the Presidency is a dictator so might as well be an awesome one.

  188. 188.

    Elizabelle

    I am glad we are not conspiracy minded types. Ā For the most part.

    Because I am thinking of the confluence of Mitch McConnell’s sister in law, the shipping CEO Angela Chao, going submerged in a pond in her car at night on a property in Texas belonging to her husband (apparently), and Mitch steps down a few weeks later. Ā Weird.

    Maybe health. Ā Maybe got wind of other things coming down the pike. Ā Maybe just sick of dealing with MAGAts.

  189. 189.

    cain

    @Elizabelle: Because I am thinking of the confluence of Mitch McConnellā€™s sister in law, the shipping CEO Angela Chao, going submerged in a pond in her car at night on a property in Texas belonging to her husband (apparently), and Mitch steps down a few weeks later. Ā Weird.

    Whoa, where did you hear that?!

  190. 190.

    Chris Johnson

    @cain: The point kind of is that he won’t have to.

    Because he’s not a dictator, he’s a public servant who represents the people in a democracy.

    Me, I’m more interested in whether Jack Smith has gamed this out in such a way that the Supreme Court can take a bunch of heat off themselves by underbussing Trumpā€¦ who apparently cannot get financial support from beleaguered Russia, anymore, or even favorable rulings from his own pet judges.

    The bluster hasn’t been working for a while, don’t be fooled.

  191. 191.

    TBone

    I saw Luttig’s face on live with Nicole a very few moments after this hit.Ā  They were planning on a different discussion tonight. I looked into his eyes on the big screen while it sunk in.Ā  I lost my nerve and for that, again, I apologize.

  193. 193.

    Chris Johnson

    @cain: Lie down with Russians, stab ’em in the back, wake up without sister-in-laws. I have not been expecting that McConnell would get away with turning on the Russians and defying them.

    He’s doing it because they’re doomed and losing, but they’ve probably got some novichok left for their most special friends. Mitch got himself into that jam and then believed, just because he saw Russia was losing, that he could betray them. I give him points for cojones but people do usually have weak points.

    I would guess that behind the scenes, Mitch flipped on the Russians and Trumpworld, and has all the receipts, and has plans, and is just running on revenge now, as he doesn’t care about anything or anyone. I think he will live to see Putin Mussolini-ed if it’s the last thing he does. Note that Trumpworld is still desperately trying to get Mitch’s endorsement. Nice try, but Trump is on the losing team and Mitch is not sentimental that way.

  194. 194.

    Elizabelle

    @cain: Ā It’s true. Ā Happened earlier this month, on a Sunday night.

    CNBC, from February 16:
    Foremost Group CEO Angela Chao died after car went into Texas pond, sheriff says

    • Foremost Group CEO Angela Chao, the sister-in-law of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, was pronounced dead after her car went into a pond at a private property located about 40 miles west of Austin, Texas, officials said.

    • Chaoā€™s death, which was first announced by her family on Wednesday, is under investigation by the Blanco County Sheriffā€™s Department.

    Turns out it was HER private property, with a pond at least 12-15 feet deep. Ā  At least, the property was registered to an LLC sharing the same building as her husband’s firm.

    I just find this interesting, because in a novel, you’d be saying “wait, what?”

    As it is, life just comes at us at 100 mph, every day of late.

  195. 195.

    Scout211

    @Elizabelle: His announcement today actually cited his sister-in-lawā€™s death as a catalyst for his decision. Ā Iā€™m not sure I believe that grief over her death really was the reason but thatā€™s what he said.

    ETAĀ Link

    McConnell on Wednesday said his decision to step down came following the death of his wife Elaine Chaoā€™s youngest sister, Angela, in a traffic accident earlier this month.

    ā€œAs some of you may know, this has been a particularly difficult time for my family. We tragically lost Elaineā€™s younger sister, Angela, just a few weeks ago. When you lose a loved one, particularly at a young age, thereā€™s a certain introspection that accompanies the grieving process. Perhaps it is Godā€™s way of reminding you of your own lifeā€™s journey to reprioritize the impact of the world that we will all inevitably leave behind,ā€ he said.

  199. 199.

    Bill Arnold

    Trump had, according to the indictment, six co-conspirators, who have mostly been identified.
    They do not have presidential immunity.
    Could they, or some of them, be indicted individually?

  200. 200.

    JPL

    @cain: This is from CNBC

    Foremost Group CEO Angela Chao, the sister-in-law of Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, was pronounced dead after her car went into a pond at a private property located about 40 miles west of Austin, Texas, officials said.
    Chaoā€™s death, which was first announced by her family on Wednesday, is under investigation by the Blanco County Sheriffā€™s Department.\

    Foremost Group CEO Angela Chao died after car went into Texas pond (cnbc.com)

  201. 201.

    The Thin Black Duke

    @twbrandt: Thank you. I’m reminded of the scene inĀ Apollo 13, where Bill Paxton and Kevin Bacon are arguing until Tom Hanks tells them to knock it off because when all is said and done, “We’re still here dealing with the same problem.” Panic isn’t helping and Life is complicated enough as it is.

  205. 205.

    topclimber

    @Hoodie: We don’t need a verdict before Election Day. We just need the daily drip of testimony that will make so much more of the country understand what the non-normies among us have known since the Jan. 6 Committee released its report a year ago.

  206. 206.

    Elizabelle

    @Scout211: Ā Hadn’t heard. Ā Thank you.

    I am sure that death devastated the Chao family. Ā Youngest of six daughters, and the one who took an early interest in the family business and ended up CEO. Ā She leaves behind a young son, maybe 3 years old, and a widower.

  207. 207.

    Hoodie

    @Elizabelle: Nothing suspicious there!Ā  She was only 50.Ā  Driving on her own property –Ā  weird.Ā  Reports also say she was underwater in her Tesla for over an hour.Ā  Ā That has all sorts of potential in and of itself (e.g., malfunction of the driving aids, inability to open the doors, etc.).

  208. 208.

    japa21

    Like many here, when I first heard the news I felt sick to my stomach.Ā  Feeling better now, because I came to a coupleĀ  of realizations.

    First is that SCOTUS is not agreeing with the immunity argument but will hear the arguments pro and con.

    Second, considering the stakes, it is probably just as well.Ā  Even Smith realized this, which is why he asked the Supreme Court to gear the arguments earlier. The reason this has never had to be considered before is because circumstances like this have not happened before.

    Third, and this has been mentioned before, precedence is in favor of the no immunity side of the case.Ā  Ford pardoned Nixon for any crimes that may have been committed while he was President, implying , therefore, that such immunity does not exist.Ā  In retrospect,the whole issue would have been resolved back then if Ford hadn’t.

    Fourth, Garland is not responsible for any of this delay.Ā  Most of the leg work had already been done before Smith received the case.Ā  Sometime in the future, a full accounting will take place.Ā  I hope I live long enough to see it.

    Fifth,Ā  we just work our butts off and win at all levels in November.

  209. 209.

    Baud

    A guilty verdict would have galvanized Republican voters and made Dem voters complacent. I’m glad for the delay.

    #InternetDiscourse

  213. 213.

    Hoodie

    @topclimber: Oh, that definitely might help.Ā  It puts the GOP in the position of not having a ready pretext to get rid of him.Ā  Ā A conviction for J6 might have given them such a pretext.Ā  ThisĀ  might even work out better than having him convicted before November.

  214. 214.

    Odie Hugh Manatee

    @twbrandt:

    This plane is going to land or it’s going to crash. We’re along for the ride and all we can do is indicate that we wish to land and hope that enough of us want the same thing.

  216. 216.

    Chris Johnson

    @Hoodie: Oh, fuck, really, a Tesla?

    I’m sorry, my conspiracy brain just exploded. I wouldn’t own one of those things for anything.

    Engage self-driving subroutine 66! Lock all doors, disable steering, and drive relative of rebellious Senator to nearest deep body of water, then park and lock the doors some more. For dear leader Putin, as executed by his good friend Elon. That’ll teach you to buy eco-friendly!

    Sorry. I just can’t help it, I didn’t realize that she died in a pond inside her freaking Tesla. The possibilities of those things creep me out. They auto-update, and Elon is a god-damned Nazi wack-job who is far too fond of Russia.

  219. 219.

    Jackie

    Forgive me if this has already been posted, but on Ari Melberā€™s show, prosecutor Neal Katyal said this:

    I think now two things should be happening,” said Katyal. “One is the court … needs to hear from the American public about how the court needs to decide this case quickly after April 22nd. This is not a hard case, Ari … Donald Trump’s arguments here, I think the technical legal word is ‘absurd,’ and the court shouldn’t take much time in deciding it. If they can decide it quickly by the first or second week of May, this trial can take place.”

    But additionally, he said, “Jack Smith should be going to the trial judge here and saying, look, I know you were going to give Donald Trump 88 days to prepare for trial, but now he’s filed all of these delay motions, and he can certainly begin some of that preparation now. And so the judge could effectively announce a smaller amount of time than 88 days so that trial could happen. Indeed, I think for the judge to do that while the court is considering this case is a wise move. It’ll tell the Supreme Court exactly what the time is.”

    So, what is the most effective way to contact the SCOTUS? And whatā€™s the most effective verbiage to use?

    I ran away from here when it got too gloom and doom. I want to raise hell, but do it for positive results.

  220. 220.

    prostratedragon

    @Bill Arnold:Ā  I’ve been thinking the time window for that is now open. SC would also have to consider things like how those cases fit with the TFG case.

  221. 221.

    AlaskaReader

    @eclare: Stevens trial ended without much justice being served.

    Stevens was found guilty on all counts on October 27, 2008, only the fifth sitting U.S. Senator in U.S. history to be convicted of a crime.

    Then his convictions were ‘vacated’ because of ‘prosecutorial’ errors.

    The jury finding him guilty wasn’t any mistake, he admitted his crime on tape.

    Stevens lost his election but he should have gone to jail too.

  222. 222.

    brantl

    @cain:Ā  John Roberts is working as a tool of the Republican Party, he’s a Federalist Society first-class putz, who lied to the Senate, for the purpose of being an orc on the Supreme Court. He didn’t want to be an obvious orc, but he’s an orc. Period. He just doesn’t want to be outed.

  223. 223.

    Noskilz

    My suspicion is Trump has given the Roberts Court nothing to work with , so the most they will do is drag it out a bit longer.

    The lower court did a very thorough job of taking apart his immunity claims, it seems suggestive that even the non-trumpalo judges have issued any dissents during this process, so I’m going to assume he’s still screwed but being thrown a bone by the conservative justices pushing some of the trials back a bit. Maybe I’m being super-naĆÆve, but we’ll know for sure in April.

  224. 224.

    ljdramone

    @Elizabelle:Ā Tonight seems like a good night to stay off internet news and hyperventilating cable hosts. (Mind you, I have no patience for cable news on slow news days either. Enough.)

    I just dropped in on Fox News, and both Laura Ingraham and Jesse Waters are nattering on and on about murderous illegal immigrants murderously murdering helpless white women.Ā  And CHILDREN.Ā  Oh, and being TERRORISTS who will be WORSE THAN 9/11.
    I’m getting the impression Fox doesn’t necessarily think the Supreme Court’s decision is great news for TFG.

  225. 225.

    brantl

    @cain:

    Heā€™s already a convicted rapist/sex offender. Heā€™s already a convicted fraudster.

     

    You’re half right, he is not a convicted rapist/sex offender. He was convicted of defaming E. Jean Carrol, by saying that she wasn’t assaulted and was making it up. Not rape, or a sex offense, the statute of limitations ran out on that, and at the time of the crime, it required penetration with sexual organs, to be rape, in New York. Those laws have since changed, but that is what they were, at the time of the incident.

  226. 226.

    prostratedragon

    @japa21:
    Thank you!

    Fourth, Garland is not responsible for any of this delay. Most of the leg work had already been done before Smith received the case.

    [My emphasis]

  228. 228.

    catclub

    @Jeffro: The state cases are going to finish him off and he has no immunity there.

     

    Unless he has already argued for immunity from state cases up through the USSC, that has not been decided.Ā  And you know he will appeal as far as they let him.

  231. 231.

    catclub

    @Eolirin: Honestly, as long as they donā€™t rule that former presidents have criminal immunity, Iā€™m not sure the delay matters that much.

     

    I am starting to imagine a ‘split the baby’ decisionĀ  that grants some immunity that wipes out some of (many of, most of) the crimes Jack Smith wants to prosecute. But does not apply to Joe Biden.

  236. 236.

    West of the Rockies

    Trump’s NY hush money case can still proceed next month (March), yes?Ā  That’s a felonyĀ criminalĀ case, which means a guilty verdict could mean prison.

  238. 238.

    Ksmiami

    @Jeffro: a million voter sit in with our dogs at the Supreme Court is necessary- the corrupt 6 have no right to dismantle our democracy

  240. 240.

    VFX Lurker

    @Jackie: I ran away from here when it got too gloom and doom. I want to raise hell, but do it for positive results.

    If possible, please pie everyone and anyone who drains your time and energy.

  241. 241.

    AlaskaReader

    @brantl: The judge in the case would have a word:

    ā€œThe finding that Ms. Carroll failed to prove that she was ā€˜rapedā€™ within the meaning of the New York Penal Law does not mean that she failed to prove that Mr. Trump ā€˜rapedā€™ her as many people commonly understand the word ā€˜rape,ā€™ ā€ Kaplan wrote.

    He added: ā€œIndeed, as the evidence at trial recounted below makes clear, the jury found that Mr. Trump in fact did exactly that.ā€

    Kaplan said New Yorkā€™s legal definition of ā€œrapeā€ is ā€œfar narrowerā€ than the word is understood in ā€œcommon modern parlance.ā€

    The former requires forcible, unconsented-to penetration with oneā€™s penis. But he said that the conduct the jury effectively found Trump liable for ā€” forced digital penetration ā€” meets a more common definition of rape. He cited definitions offered by the American Psychological Association and the Justice Department, which in 2012 expanded its definition of rape to include penetration with any body part or object.

  244. 244.

    sab

    @brantl: He wasn’t “convicted” because that was a civil case, not a criminal case. He was held liable, hence damages not imprisonment.

  245. 245.

    wenchacha

    As Rachel Maddow pointed out: why did Ford pardon Nixon, if Nixon had complete immunity as POTUS?

    Don’t we already have historic precedent regarding this issue?

Comments are closed.