Kudos to MSNBC for publishing this article be Marcy Wheeler, aka emptywheel.
Merrick Garland Isn’t to Blame for Delays in Trump’s Election Interference Case
by Marcy Wheeler, legal and national security journalist
After the Supreme Court delayed consideration of Donald Trump’s immunity claim until April, some liberals directed considerable outrage not just at the court, but also at a member of President Joe Biden’s Cabinet. Such attacks act as if the delay were Attorney General Merrick Garland’s fault instead of justices like Clarence Thomas. These criticisms are misplaced. The Justice Department, before and after Garland’s delayed confirmation, started investigating key figures in the election interference case against Trump in 2021. And accusations of delay ignore the real-world obstacles that special counsel Jack Smith, his team and their predecessors had to navigate carefully — lest the whole case fall apart in court.
The department took overt investigative steps against three of the six alleged co-conspirators identified in Trump’s Jan. 6 indictment in 2021, long before Garland appointed Smith to the case. Days after a New York Times report on Jeffrey Clark’s role in Jan. 6, on Jan. 25, 2021, Justice Department Inspector General Michael Horowitz announced an investigation into “whether any former or current DOJ official engaged in an improper attempt to have DOJ seek to alter the outcome of the 2020 Presidential Election.” The IG investigators remained involved when FBI agents seized Clark’s phone June 23, 2022. The department had already, a month earlier, obtained a warrant for one of Clark’s private email accounts and would obtain a second one the following day. The August 2023 indictment of Trump describes Clark as co-conspirator 4.
In April 2021 — on Deputy Attorney General Lisa Monaco’s first day on the job — the Justice Department obtained a warrant to seize Rudy Giuliani’s phones. That wasn’t a warrant for Jan. 6; it sought evidence that Trump’s lawyer was doing the bidding of Ukrainians when he convinced Trump to fire Marie Yovanovitch in 2019. But the DOJ used the special master review that Giuliani demanded to look at all the communications seized, not just those relating to Ukraine. In September 2021, the judge in that case granted prosecutors’ request to do the privilege review of materials seized from Giuliani’s devices on all files that post-dated Jan. 1, 2018, irrespective of subject. (The special master even prioritized the devices that were used through 2021.)
And in September 2021, prosecutor Molly Gaston — one of two lead prosecutors on the Jan. 6 case against Trump — subpoenaed associates of Sidney Powell as part of an investigation into her fundraising off false claims of voter fraud. Just one paragraph in the Trump indictment describes Powell’s actions, as co-conspirator 3, in the conspiracies charged against the former president. But that paragraph focuses on a topic related to the subpoenas sent out in 2021: Powell’s relentless attacks on Dominion Systems in lawsuits.
Those often ignored early moves against Trump’s co-conspirators — and other investigative developments, such as the purported cooperation of Jan. 6 defendant Brandon Straka, investigative steps implicating Roger Stone, and the prosecution of Alex Jones’ sidekick — go unmentioned in reports that claim Garland delayed the investigation. For good reason: Most happened where reporters and pundits weren’t looking.
But the popular narratives attributing delay to Garland also ignore several factors that did take time.
Kudos to Marcy, as well! Read the whole thing.
Open thread.
Ramalama
After reading everyone blasting Katie Porter in earlier posts here for being a bad sport, and leaning in to Adam Schiff, I kept thinking about Marcy Wheeler’s very common complaints on her own blog and Xitter posts about how the Jan 6 Committee delayed shizz for months. If memory serves, she mentioned Rep Schiff a few times in this delay context.
Anyway, fine, fine, Katie Porter really wanted to win, and she didn’t. I like Katie Porter.
Adam Schiff has done some very good work. He had the money! He made the moves. He wins. OK.
But maybe don’t put him (or anyone) on a pedestal. Or you can. But just know Marcy Wheeler has receipts.
Baud
@Ramalama:
I don’t need to put him on a pedestal to find the complaints about his campaign decisions to be weak.
twbrandt
One thing that has always annoyed me is that most actual attorneys, especially those who practiced at the federal level, think Garland has done as well as he can. It’s mostly people who have never practiced law who complain about Garland.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
Thanks for front-paging this. The delusional anti-Garland chorus will never be appeased. They want a Green Lantern solution, and they want it yesterday.
Get serious, people!
japa21
Nice post, but won’t make any difference to the Garland haters. I’ve given up trying to understand why they are so virulent in their hatred.
moops
There should have been a Jack Smith appointed in February 2021. How this would have proceeded from that point is anyones guess, but given the clear recorded evidence of a coup attempt already available at that point, a prosecution should have been appointed and investigations undertaken within that context.
Mousebumples
Or lawyers who want clicks and outrage and engagement. Though I’m not sure who Is A Lawyer on the internet but not in real life – I’m guessing that’s also a thing, especially on social media.
Not to doubt any Juicer legal eagles, but whenever I see I AM A LAWYER AND GARLAND IS TERRIBLE BECAUSE… on my social media feed, I’m usually looking for a mute button.
Baud
I don’t really care that much what people think of Garland. I just don’t understand the obsession with debating the topic at this point. People should focus on the future rather than history IMHO.
surfk9
@Ramalama:
Adam Schiff’s campaign knew how to campaign statewide in California. Porter’s did not. I like Katie, but she got out-campaigned. On election night I was sitting with an old veteran political hand, at a watch party, who gave me chapter and verse about the differences in the campaigns and there were many.
Baud
@surfk9:
As someone else said earlier, it wasn’t even all that close.
ETA: not sure how many votes still need to be counted.
moonbat
Thank you, WaterGirl, for posting this! I think Garland is doing his best to uphold the law and not let any miscreant, no mater what their position, off the hook. And as an outsider to the whole process, I am also willing to concede that I don’t know squat about what is going on behind the scenes at the DoJ and that there are precious few journalists working today willing to do the investigating to find out.
So Wheeler’s fistful of receipts is a welcome corrective for all those who paint Garland as timid or weak or feckless in his duty.
trollhattan
Missed this at the time, learning just today that Gig Car has left the building.
Fun while it lasted, and a way for folks to get hands-on an EV, probably the best way to sell the very concept. But hey, can still take you date on rental scooters.
Leto
OT but related to this: now that Trumpov is the GOP nominee, should Biden extend the courtesy of letting the Russian asset have classified briefings?
Baud
@Leto:
I wouldn’t but maybe it’ll be the type of “classified information” that was on Hillary’s emails.
Leto
@Baud: oh, I have one of her emails right here!
edit: but for real, I wouldn’t either. I know the GOP/media will scream, but he’s under criminal indictment for illegally retaining classified info. C’mon now…
trollhattan
@Baud:
33%
32%
14%
8%
Schiff, Garvey, Porter, Lee. Will be updated tonight and nightly until April 12 certification. Schiff/Garvey will shift back and forth, the others, not.
ETA Garvey leading the remaining-term ballot 34-31%. Guessing that means a random runoff between them midyear, but don’t really know.
dmsilev
@Leto: He’s not officially the nominee, not until the convention in August, Seems like a good excuse to stall…
Baud
@dmsilev:
I thought I read they were waiting until the convention.
Leto
@dmsilev: true, and his classified docs trial might be underway by then (fingers crossed). I don’t envy Biden on this decision.
What Have The Romans Ever Done for Us?
@Leto: NO and he should say loud and proud.
Jackie
@Leto: Sadly, yes. It’s a courtesy, not a law, and I wish Biden would be a little less courteous re sharing Classified info with a traitor to our country.
WaterGirl
@moonbat: Yeah, even some of the internet legal eagles that i like, like Andrew Weissman – who is no longer on the inside – seem to forget that they are no longer working with all the information.
Just because we can’t see the periscope on the submarine doesn’t mean the submarine isn’t there
That’s what I like about Andrew McCabe – he’ll say stuff like “when I was there, it was done in this way, but the may have changed.”
WaterGirl
@Leto: Someone earlier today on BJ posted a link with Biden saying that Trump would be given classified briefings. Hopefully they only share useless stuff with him. Yikes.
feebog
Marcy has been beating this drum on Twitter for months. Put me in the column that thinks Garland could have moved sooner to appoint Smith. Also too, his appointment of Hur to investigate the Biden classified document case was absurd and his appointment of Weiss to the Hunter Biden investigation was a mistake as well. You don’t have to appoint Republican holdovers for high profile cases involving your boss just to appear to be fair and balanced.
WaterGirl
@trollhattan:
Please explain that like I’m not from California, which I’m not.
Jackie
@Jackie: Nicolle Wallace and her guest panel are discussing this topic right now. No one is in favor of giving TIFG access to Intelligence briefings.
japa21
@feebog: Hur, I agree. He didn’t appoint Weiss. Wouldn’t have made any difference when he appointed Smith.
Chetan Murthy
Gosh Marcy, now tell us why and how low-level drug dealers and addicts can get sent to the Federal pen to do hard time in less than four years. Gosh I’m all on pins and needles to find out! What she’s telling us is that there’s a two-tier justice system, and TFG is getting that special tier where he can drag things out for years and years. That’s what she’s telling us, even though she *thinks* she’s telling us that DOJ is working as fast as it can.
rikyrah
@Leto:
No
rikyrah
@feebog:
This this..100 times this
UncleEbeneezer
@moops: Garland wasn’t even confirmed until March, 2021. So you think letting Trump’s DOJ assign the Special Council would’ve been a good idea?
Jay
@trollhattan:
Here we have two “Gig Car” operations, one is run by BCAA, (a co-op insurance agency), the other is a for profit. City provided support is special parking spaces. All the cars are “hubbed” near transit stations. All the vehicles are small hybrid SUV’s. The BCAA ones have bike racks. For both, they run off a phone app. Tap to unlock, tap to start, tap to pay. Park it where you got it.
Scout211
We vote twice again in November.
ETA: Link
Jay
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/power-lines-ignited-the-largest-wildfire-in-texas-history-officials-say-1.6798375
Omnes Omnibus
This will make no difference to the set of commenters who have decided that at best Garland is not a “wartime consigliere.” He isn’t supposed to be a political tool of the administration and Biden’s dissatisfaction with some of his decisions isn’t really material. Am I defending all of his decisions? No, of course not. Do I think he is doing a pretty good job of starting to fix the DOJ after Trump broke it? Yes, i do. That’s the job he was hired to do. Not just prosecute Trump.
Omnes Omnibus
@Chetan Murthy: Among other things, those cases are are less complex.
prostratedragon
@feebog: What would Smith have done earlier that was not being done? The cases he’s running now seem all based on the groundwork that was laid down before; it’s why he’s been able to move so fast.
Shalimar
@Leto: I think Biden should have national security officials brief Trump on what he needs to be aware of, but no putting shit in pictures so he pays attention. And every briefing should devote at least 75% of the time to lecturing him on how badly he fucks up national security every time he is allowed near classified documents.
Jay
@Omnes Omnibus:
Plus, a large number plead out in exchange for reduced sentences., just a mere 98% in Federal cases.
UncleEbeneezer
@rikyrah: Neither one resulted in actual charges though, m=which is really the most important concern of evaluating decisions by DOJ. Just a couple days of Right-Wing (and Left-Wing) freak out. So they were really nowhere near the level of a mistake as the claims that Garland/DOJ somehow botched the Jan 6 Investigations. I sincerely doubt that Biden’s Documents or the Hunter Biden witch-hunt are going to be on the minds of any voters in November. So I’m not even sure they did any real political damage to Biden.
Bill Arnold
@Jackie:
Particularly one who is [has lawyers] arguing in court that he could legally sell ALL of the United States of America’s nuclear secrets to the highest bidder, if he were POTUS. (paraphrased :-)
Jackie
@feebog: If I’m not mistaken, Garland didn’t see the need for a SC until TIFG officially declared his candidacy for president.
Then he had no choice; when classified documents were found at Biden’s homes, he assigned Hur as Biden’s SC. for the same reason – BOTH were Presidential candidates.
Shalimar
@Omnes Omnibus: Among other other things, low-level blah blah blahs don’t spend $100 million on lawyers delaying shit at every opportunity either.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
I could be mistaken, but I believe Garland chose Hur to do that investigation into Biden having had classified papers after he left office. That was a horrendous misplay, and it’s hard to see how there’s any reason or excuse for it.
$8 blue check mistermix
I do follow Marcy’s blog but my god does she need an editor. Her posts drown the reader in minutiae.
So, maybe she has an argument here on the rapidity of the prosecution, but, as others have said, what about Hur?
The Hur appointment is just the epitome of DC institutional brain thinking, namely, that Democrats must always play by every rule and bend over backwards for the appearance of fairness and apolitical administration of justice, while Republicans can do whatever the fuck they want, including fuck over Democrats by using their bought-and-paid-for judiciary as a political weapon.
Garland has DC institutional brain. It’s good for many things, but moving fast in the face of an existential threat to our democracy isn’t one of them. That doesn’t make him a bad man. The lesson here is don’t appoint a guy to be your AG if he was a supreme court nominee on the grounds that he’s such a fair broker that even Republicans can’t object to him.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
@$8 blue check mistermix:, amen. I wish Biden had chosen, say, Doug Jones. I think he truly understands what’s at risk here. Garland either doesn’t understand, or he believes it would be unseemly to take too strong a stand against it. Neither one bespeaks well of him.
Omnes Omnibus
@$8 blue check mistermix: I’ll see your Hur (who found that no charges should be filed) and raise you a Smith.
UncleEbeneezer
@Omnes Omnibus: People started bashing Garland within 90 days of him taking the job (probably even earlier). Think about that. The biggest, most important, most complicated and challenging criminal investigation in US history and not even three months in people were screaming and frothing at the mouth that Garland had already failed. It’s so fucking absurd that honestly it’s usually not even worth engaging with them.
Teri Kanefield has a great series about Dis/Misinformation and Part III is about “The Perils of Legal Punditry” and uses the Garland-bashing as a perfect, current example. It complements the Wheeler article well.
Baud
@UncleEbeneezer:
The old conventional wisdom was that Trump would never be indicted.
Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.)
@UncleEbeneezer:, well, both Lemieux and Campos over at Lawyers, Guns and Money are pretty down on Garland, for the reasons Mistermix laid out above, and they’re about the most astute people I regularly read about law and justice and such things.
japa21
@Baud: Now it’s convicted. Then, when he is, it will be, he won’t spend time in jail. After he’s behind bars, it’ll be sentence is long enough. After 20 years, it’ll be, why wasn’t he executed. It’s all Garland’s fault.
WaterGirl
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): That Garland made what I think were bad choices on Hur and Weiss and does not make him a failure as Attorney General. And has no bearing on how he handled the insurrection cases.
Lyrebird
@Shalimar: Yep.
I do not think the fact that rich white men get a whole different experience of the criminal justice system in these United States is good, but I am very certain that this was a fact even before the Orange Menace came along.
Gonna just nod and say this and run – I am trying to keep my news junkie focus on stuff I can do anything about. Baby steps.
WaterGirl
@$8 blue check mistermix: Marcy’s last paragraph addresses that:
Shalimar
@$8 blue check mistermix: Everything about Garland’s history suggests he is an excellent administrator, which is the 99% of the Attorney General’s job that we don’t see. I assume he is doing a good job overall.
That said, I do think Garland did very little in 2021 to investigate Trump and the other coup plotters (Wheeler’s points that parts of an investigation were started are not persuasive to me), and his appointment of Hur was unbelievably stupid. Both of those things are in the past now and can’t be changed, but I would understand if the administration has lost confidence in him.
Baud
@WaterGirl: Weiss was preexisting from Trump. All Garland did was give him a special counsel title.
prostratedragon
Link:
…
Jackie
@Bill Arnold: The consensus on Nicolle Wallace is TIFG can’t be treated as a “normal” presidential candidate because HE ISN’T!
He’s an indicted citizen accused of stealing TS/Classified documents who is trying to get re-elected to keep his orange ass out of prison.
WaterGirl
@Baud: True.
But it was the new extra title that allowed him to not have his bullshit report reviewed according to normal process.That would have stripped out all the bullshit.Never mind, corrected by Baud.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Weiss issued a report?
Frankensteinbeck
@Chetan Murthy:
I concede there are tiers of the justice system. Trump can afford to spend hundreds of millions of dollars on lawyers, he’s being accused of things with sketchy legal precedent, involve criminal code that include grey issues that are hard to prove like ‘intent’, will be fought many times at every court level from juries to the Supreme Court, and many of those levels are politically biased in his favor. Oh, and failing to convict is a tragedy rather than something to shrug over. A poor, street level drug offender does not have any of these benefits and gets processed much faster and more harshly.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Sorry, I mixed up Hur and Weiss. Too many special counsels.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
No worries.
I think there’s universal agreement on Hur.
Geminid
@Leto: I think Biden’s people may give briefings but withhold sensitive material. If it were up to me, I’d have John Kirby give a short briefing while Bill Burns sat next to Kirby and just stared at Trump..
Uncle Cosmo
As soon as he sends the cognizant authorities every motherfucking classified document he took. And not one second sooner. And even then, brief him briefly, leaving out the most sensitive stuff. He’s demonstrably (at best) unable to keep track of classified material, (at worst) forwarding classified material to th enemies of the United States. The minute the Trumpistas start whining about this, scream it back at them.
Mike in Pasadena
One of the few TV political ads I saw several times was Katie Porter blaming Schiff for failing to end homelessness in Los Angeles. And how was Schiff, a congress critter from Glendale, negligent in failing to solve the problem? LA County has one of the biggest budgets in the country and did not solve it, City of LA has a budget for it. Neither has solved it and both have direct, not indirect, responsibility for housing in LA. I thought it was one of the sleaziest tactics in the senate race. By the way, Katie Porter didn’t solve the homeless problem in Orange County though she held an office there with direct responsibities for events in that county. P.S. Orange County has a large homeless population, too.
Miki
@$8 blue check mistermix: “I do follow Marcy’s blog but my god does she need an editor. Her posts drown the reader in minutiae.”
Boy howdy, ain’t that the truth.
IIRC, she’s not a lawyer, and her writing is not at all lawyerly (not necessarily an entirely a bad thing). But stream of consciousness doesn’t work for investigative journalism, imo, unless and until it’s edited.
I can’t read her blog.
WaterGirl
@Mike in Pasadena: Yeah, Katie Porter hasn’t won many friends. Definitely won’t be writing the next version of how to win friends and influence people.
Let’s just say that running for Senate did not bring out the best in Katie Porter
Her all time best in a hearing was when she said something like “here, let me read that to you from the book on this book that I (fucking) wrote!”
Omnes Omnibus
Judge Kaplan has denied Trump’s request for more time.
schrodingers_cat
My prediction for Katie Porter, is that she will get a TV show with her prop and she will bash Ds from the left on the said show.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Her prop?
ETA: the whiteboard?
schrodingers_cat
@WaterGirl: She used the word rig because she lost. That made me lose whatever respect I had for her which was not much to begin with.
$8 blue check mistermix
@Omnes Omnibus:
If you want to use that metaphor, then the game was over a while ago and everyone left the table.
Also, I’ll choose not to gloss over the fact that Hur did not follow DoJ procedure in issuing his report cum NY Post editorial.
zhena gogolia
@Omnes Omnibus: Good news.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Yep. She is infamous on Black Twitter as White Board Wanda.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: Yes!
trollhattan
@Scout211: Ah, thanks. So no super secret extra runoff then. Good.
2nd place: two months in the senate.
1st place: knowing you don’t have to serve two months in the senate. Steve’s a winner, so….
Jay
@schrodingers_cat:
Omnes Omnibus
@$8 blue check mistermix: I am just saying that judging Garland’s tenure based on one special counsel appointment is a bit wrongheaded.
$8 blue check mistermix
@Miki:
I think she has an advanced degree in something like critical theory or literary theory — something involving textual analysis, which she brings to her study of these cases. I think as the cases grow more complex, she misses context that someone like, say, Ken White (popehat) would bring to the blog.
Also, when I was in grad school I never could understand arguments from the lit crit types because they meandered all over the place.
WaterGirl
@Omnes Omnibus: And he blamed it on Trump, which is accurate.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@surfk9:
Exactly. It’s one thing to run a congressional district campaign but simply trying to scale that up to run statewide for federal office in what is essentially it’s own country (because CA is so ginormous in everything), whole different beast. Porter clearly didn’t understand that or didn’t have the funds to do that.
UncleEbeneezer
@$8 blue check mistermix: Hur ended up as a few days of bad press and NO CHARGES!
On the other hand, Trump has been indicted on multiple felonies and is facing two trials, 1,400 Insurrectionists have been charged, DOJ got convictions on Seditious Conspiracy (also the first time ever), multiple high-level Co-Conspirators from Trump’s circle of fiends will probably also likely be indicted etc., etc. Oh and then there’s all the tiny/unimportant stuff like DOJ lawsuits to protect Voting Rights, Abortion Rights, LGBTQ Rights, and countless policy changes within DOJ to make the system more equitable/fair for Black/Poor people. You know, stuff that only effects millions of people’s actual lives. Go ahead and compare the lengthy list of accomplishments under this DOJ to other AG’s.
If a week of bad press from the Hur appointment and no charges, eight months before the election is the biggest Garland mistake you can point to, then I think we are done here.
Geminid
@Miki: My Dream Team is Marcy Wheeler with Magdi Jacobs (aka Mangy Jay) as editor.
Quadrillipede
Seems to me, if withholding sensitive intelligence from a deranged lunatic who is criminally indicted for mistreating sensitive intelligence is politically unpopular, then it’s the public who are wrong…
UncleEbeneezer
@Frankensteinbeck: Comparisons between an everyday criminal and a Former President that pretend there are no significant differences between the two are pretty freakin’ silly. Our Constitution literally gives Presidents all kinds of privileges and protections and powers that change the way their crimes need to be handled.
Chief Oshkosh
@Baud: I guess you’d have to take that up with WG. ;
ETA: to add snark tag (which is what these days?) and to thank WG for making my world, and possibly the worlds of other Juicers, more interesting. :)
Dorothy A. Winsor
When a presidential candidate is briefed, is the candidate the only person present? Or does staff come too?
Dan B
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): I remember Doug Jones being sworn in by a homophobic Justice. Jones’ gay son looked horrified. I assume Jones and his son understand what the Justice and TIFG would do. Restoring sodomy laws or sentencing the son with pedophilia could be on the list.
prostratedragon
@Omnes Omnibus: YAAAAAY!! (Though it was certainly expected)
Steeplejack
If they decide to give Trump intel briefings, they should throw in some fake stuff and see if it turns up anywhere interesting. 👀
Jackie
@Omnes Omnibus: 👍🏻
Quadrillipede
Might be just me, but Hur’s report seemed to be such a transparent hit job for the but-his-olds crowd, that it might actually redound more negatively on Republicans/The Failing Media than on Fighting Joe himself.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: I’m glad I just emptied my bladder! I would seriously peed my pants from LMAO!
feebog
@japa21:
Weiss was originally the Delaware State Attorney investigating. But Garland appointed him as Special Counsel last year.
Jackie
@Quadrillipede: 🤷🏼♀️I can’t tell if you’re agreeing with me, or misunderstanding me?
feebog
@$8 blue check mistermix:
Those gratuitous observations were red meat for the RW pundits. The fact no charges were filed was lost in the noise.
japa21
@feebog: Which meant nothing. Pure title change, no powers change.
Ohio Mom
This is off topic but all this talk of lawyers reminded me, What happen to Immanentize (did I spell that correctly?). The last I remember, he was buying a new house. And his son, Immp?
He always had insightful explanations for us layfolk.
Matt McIrvin
@UncleEbeneezer: I think a lot of the left dissatisfaction about Biden “doing nothing” is specifically that he didn’t rapidly prosecute and convict Trump in some kangaroo court.
Matt McIrvin
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): And when the Hur report dropped, I think Loomis made a gloating post going “all the dupes who were defending Garland need to apologize”.
Quadrillipede
@Jackie: I think I’m agreeing (Joe Biden should not share any info), but probably expressed that in an imprecise way 🤔
Manyakitty
@Shalimar: I think they should feed him fake briefings along with things like weather maps and pictures of candy. See what turns up where
Manyakitty
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.): Doug Jones, sure, or my perennial favorite, Sally Yates.
Both are also acceptable SCOTUS options as well.
Baud
@Ohio Mom:
Not a lawyer, but Jim, Foolish Literalist hasn’t posted in a while.
I also don’t recall seeing Alison Rose recently.
Quadrillipede
@Quadrillipede: On reflection, allowing Trump to be briefed on intelligence undermines the severity of his document mishandling crimes, so I can’t see any upside to it atm.
HumboldtBlue
Baud
I hope Biden opens his speech tonight with “Man, woman, person, camera, tv. Now that that’s settled….”
WaterGirl
@Jackie: Had you not seen that before? Or had you forgotten about it?
When I saw the link from Omnes, I shouted yes! and thought of that scene immediately.
Manyakitty
@WaterGirl: Balloon Juice after dark is starting early hahahahaha
zhena gogolia
@Baud: Oh, you’re right! I wonder where Alison is.
WaterGirl
@Ohio Mom: I left Imm a voicemail message a few weeks ago, no response. Probably super busy!
patrick II
@UncleEbeneezer:
Instead of comparing apples to oranges (a man guilty of multiple serious crimes vs a man not guilty of one much less serious crime.). Instead, let’s compare an apple to an apple, two people who made the same mistake neither of which was a crime — Mike Pence accidentally keeping classified documents after he left office — written off in one day vs. Joe Biden, six months of investigation followed by an accusation of his being too befuddled to be tried and convicted. That is not a “not guilty” finding, but only one where Biden is too far gone to take him to trial. Will it hurt him that much as an individual act? Probably not. But it is one more piece of normal Republican strategy of repeating a lie often enough it becomes true. See Hillary:emails.
WaterGirl
@Baud: Alison Rose was in the Ukraine thread at least once in the past week.
Baud
@WaterGirl:
Thanks.
schrodingers_cat
New Art supplies alert: I got myself some souffle and glaze gel pens from Sakura. Plus a bucket for washing and drying watercolor brushes and a butcher’s tray as a paint palette
Currently experimenting with abstract design and coloring Pan and Medusa in Kerby Rosanes’ Mythomorphia.
Pan/Medusa 2024 would be a better ticket than Orange/His VP pick
Kayla Rudbek
@WaterGirl: I would be feeding him disinformation and watching how it traveled
Steeplejack
@Baud:
Alison Rose was in the Ukraine thread last night.
Jackie
Off topic? But this paragraph reminded me that this trial is going to do to TIFG the very damage he was trying to avoid just in time for his run for office! 😂
Lots more at the link, but all I can think of how this brings back Stormy, the Playmate bunny, and the Access Hollywood scandal – to the forefront of everyone’s memory when TIFG KNOWS he needs suburban women’s votes!
Poetic justice!😁
Manyakitty
@Baud: she pops by the Ukraine threads.
Baud
@Steeplejack:
@Manyakitty:
Thanks. I haven’t looked at those threads recently.
Baud
@schrodingers_cat:
Pan/Medusa 2024: Smoke weed, get stoned!
Omnes Omnibus
@Ohio Mom: I see him on Twitter. LAO as well.
Manyakitty
@Omnes Omnibus: good. I come across LAO on Instagram now and again.
Jackie
@WaterGirl: I’ve seen it before – just wasn’t expecting to see it here! One of my favorite scenes evah!
Jackie
@Kayla Rudbek: I’m pretty sure that’s being pondered. Thankfully, the briefings won’t start until after the GQP Convention, and HOPEFULLY TIFG will be a convicted criminal via the Hush Money trial and things change!🤞🏻🤞🏻
Ohio Mom
@Omnes Omnibus: Thanks. Happy to hear he’s alive and kicking and I will assume, in fine fettle.
cain
@feebog: Especially, it seems that Republican investigators are used for Republican presidents as well. It is annoying to think that for some reason Democratic investigators won’t have the same level of professionalism – especially when clearly we have seen that at least one investigator does not have the level of professionalism as one should have when doing the role.
schrodingers_cat
Katie Porter is doubling down on the “rigged” business. What a sore loser.
schrodingers_cat
@Baud: Me neither.
Sister Golden Bear
@Jackie: Biden had already refused to give the regular courtesy briefings to Trump that are normally given to former presidents, citing security concerns.
So it’s not out of the question that he’d do the same for candidate Trump. If not, I suspect it’ll be extremely barebones briefings devoid of any actual secrets Trump could sell. Honestly, the briefings could just summarize the newspaper headlines of the day and Trump wouldn’t know the difference.
Jackie
@schrodingers_cat: She’s gonna be fun to sit next to at the SOTU tonight!🙄
CarolPW
@Baud: Saw her yesterday in Adam’s post. Miss her in the regular posts.
geg6
@schrodingers_cat:
She needs to stop digging. Jesus.
Omnes Omnibus
@schrodingers_cat: Porter is very well educated person with degrees from Yale and Harvard. She is also a very savvy communicator. There is no way she could not have known how saying an election was rigged would be interpreted in the current political environment. Her explanatory remarks were worse than the original statement because she is playing cute.*
*I will admit that I am not one of her biggest fans so I could be being a bit uncharitable here, but I don’t think so.
Jackie
Joe had a HUGELY BIG fundraising day following Super Tues!👍🏻
geg6
@Omnes Omnibus:
Nope, you’re not wrong there. Unbelievable. I actually liked her a lot previous to this. I donated to her. She’s dead to me now though.
WaterGirl
@schrodingers_cat: When she got called on it, she could have admitted that it was a poor choice of words, at the very least, even if it wasn’t true.
Instead she got stiff and defensive. Bad decision. Stop digging, Katie.
edited.
Quadrillipede
@Quadrillipede: If I were Joe Biden, I think I would withhold intelligence from TFG just to make him whine and cry about it.
I promise to stop thinking about this now.
hueyplong
@Omnes Omnibus: The word ‘Rigged” is just as loaded as “Democrat Party.” If Porter doesn’t know that, then it’s just another reason not to have her as the party’s candidate for the Senate.
It’s understandable to be irritated and wanting to blow off steam just after a loss, but it would be best if she stopped this stuff by next week.
Sister Golden Bear
@Lord Fartdaddy (Formerly Mumphrey, Smedley Darlington Mingobat, et al.):
Lemieux isn’t a lawyer he’s a poli sci prof and Campos is a law prof, and as far I can tell he’s not actually practiced law. They have their insights from that perspective, but they’re not as informed about what it takes to bring a case to trial as folks who’ve actually been DOJ prosecutors.
caphilldcne
@twbrandt: late as usual to the party. However I know lawyers who practiced in front of Garland on the DC circuit. Basically they thought he was an incredibly political judge who made every ruling with an eye toward getting in the Supreme Court. Additionally there’s a sense of him being a micromanager and not empowering subordinates. In at least one case I’ve been following he’s eventually made very conservative policy decisions that I think should have come from the administration rather than DOJ and may have been influenced by more conservative US attorneys. I think with a coup attempt there should have been an effort to move with all deliberate speed. Instead they’ve been fretting about legal issues in a way that further delayed prosecution. This is a general problem with US courts. We need a better balance between due process and certainty of punishment. Obama didn’t choose him because he thought he was some amazing legal mind. He chose him because he was the closest judge on the somewhat left he thought he could get conservative senators to vote for. We know how that turned out. So I’m not particularly impressed with Garland. I think as soon as Biden wins re-election Garland will be asked to resign. Incidentally some of the blame also needs to be put on Biden. I think he knew exactly what he was getting and he got it.
Geminid
@Jackie: This is one big difference between this year and 2020. Then, Biden’s campaign was short of money until well into August and had to play catch-up. Not so this time.
WaterGirl
@hueyplong:
Fake Irishman
@Manyakitty:
I’m pretty sure we can do better than Yates on the court. She’s pretty conservative.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Sister Golden Bear:
Neither Gloomis nor Lemeow add anything to virtually any topic although the latter has a couple of hysterically entertaining obits from years ago.
Campos is entertaining when he’s talked about his travails with his department at CU (I’m an alum, no love for the school so if his actions bug them, that’s a feature) and his civil rights lawsuit. But I read that purely for the car wreck aspect of it.
Melancholy Jaques
@Baud:
Forget it Jake, it’s the internet.
M31
I want Tony Jay as editor — Marcy’s postings would get even longer but the swearing and entertainment value would go way up
feebog
@Omnes Omnibus:
California voter here. The wife and I were split between Schiff and Porter. She eventually voted for Schiff with me and is now happy with her choice given the sour grapes. She has basically ruined any chance of a political come back, lot’s of folks really disappointed in her.
princess leia
@schrodingers_cat:
Really disappointing.
Sister Golden Bear
@$8 blue check mistermix:
Because of that Marcy has been good at ferreting out details and smaller insights that other people missed. But as you said, her lack of real-world legal knowledge (vs. people who’ve been actual DOJ prosecutors, as well as defense attorneys) means she can miss the larger context.
And yeah, she definitely needs a good editor.
Sister Golden Bear
@WaterGirl: It also wasn’t the best move for Trump’s attorneys in the NY State case to say he had $100 million on hand, when they were trying to play let’s a make a deal on the half-billion dollar judgement.
Melancholy Jaques
@Jackie:
Imagine how much he could have raised if everyone didn’t dislike him and think he’s too old to be president.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@caphilldcne:
Thanks for this. I’m somebody who’s been Switzerland on Garland’s performance because it’s not something I’m able to have an even uninformed opinion on.
But your description rings true in the general nature of his approach to date. I’m hoping after a Biden reelection, Garland will be thanked for his service and asked to gtfo.
Omnes Omnibus
@Sister Golden Bear: Remember that Teri Kanefield, a criminal defense attorney with a lot of experience, comes to the same general conclusion.
Omnes Omnibus
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: If Biden wins and we keep the Senate, I would expect quite a bit of turnover in the Cabinet.
Sister Golden Bear
@Omnes Omnibus: I saw, and I agree with both of them. It was more a general observation about Marcy, and some past tangents she’s had, than specific to this article
FWIW, I follow Kanefield and a number of other attorneys with lot of experience.
japa21
@Omnes Omnibus: It’s actually amazing how little turnover there has been in this administration to date. And if, as I believe we will, we not only take the House, but increase our Senate seats, I think a lot of the newer people coming in will be even more progressive.
hueyplong
@WaterGirl: Haha I’m trying to be nice. We tend to forget the insignificance of individual daily news cycles about a primary loser with approx 240 cycles to go. A single Donald Trump comment on hamberders can obliterate Porter’s caterwauling.
Geminid
@schrodingers_cat: To pile on, I’m waiting for someone to post a meme of Katie Porter holding up a white board with “Boo Hoo” written on it!
Now I will try to give up Porter-bashing for the rest of Lent. Not sure how hard I’ll try though.
Sister Golden Bear
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Second-term Cabinet turnover is pretty common, it’s a high intensity job where burn out is inevitable, especially when the speed and Xanax aren’t being handed out like candy from a broken piñata. As japa21 said, it’s pretty surprising there’s been so little turnover to date.
jowriter
@Omnes Omnibus: I always thought her ambition for the Senate was premature. She has talent, but suffers from overabundance of ego. It’s a common flaw among politicians. She wanted too much, too soon. The “rigged” comment is a telling and terrible mistake on her part. Timing is everything, and she does not have it.
Steve in the ATL
You know what is worse than Merrick Garland’s handling of the trump election interference case?
Mississippi airport wine.
Sure Lurkalot
@japa21:
Please. People can have criticisms about the DOJ’s handling of Trump’s cases or think Merrick Garland was not the best pick for AG without being unreasonable or haters.
I read Emptywheel from time to time and Marcy not a lawyer Wheeler often gets herself and her readers lost in the weeds and (gasp) is sometimes even mistaken though she’s not wont to admit it. I’m not convinced by her arguments in the cited article whoever published it.
IMHO Merrick Garland was chosen for the SC by the Team of Rivals Obama, not the No Fucks Left to Give Obama. It does seem plausible that Biden appointed him AG to make up for the actions of bad faith republicans who wouldn’t even consider his SC nomination. Decisions and appointments to rectify republican intransigence have rarely worked to our advantage, if ever.
Sister Golden Bear
@Steve in the ATL: Oh the humanity!
divF
@feebog: I voted for Porter, in an effort to keep the odious Steve Garvey off the ballot. That said, she hasn’t covered herself with glory in this one. There was a piece in the local paper about how a number of his teammates from the Dodger days made a point of endorsing one of the Democrats, and not him – IIRC, Dusty Baker endorsed Barbara Lee.
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus:
Based on information and belief, she was the inspiration for the Dropkick Murphys song “kiss me I’m shitfaced”
prostratedragon
@Sister Golden Bear: Just heard somebody or other who has been involved in security briefings say that, on MSNBC. To paraphrase, the briefings can be superficial on the one hand, or deliberately confusing and impenetrable on the other.
Shalimar
@Matt McIrvin: There are zero days when Loomis isn’t an asshole to someone about something totally unnecessary. I think it is what he does for fun.
Omnes Omnibus
@Steve in the ATL: Is that better or worse than no wine at all?
Sister Golden Bear
@jowriter: In fairness, open Senate seats don’t come up like that very often. But definitely agree she needed more experience, and her antics before, during and after the campaign shows she wasn’t ready.
It’s too bad she’s burned her remaining bridges, since she had potential to run for other higher offices. Maybe rerun for her seat in two years if her replacement lost, maybe run for a statewide office. But I doubt she’ll get much support now, at least definitely not from the state party.
Jay
@prostratedragon:
just send in ex-General Flynn to spew some “Flynn Facts” or someone to brief him on the QAnon de jour.
Sister Golden Bear
@prostratedragon:
For the latter all they’d need to do is a normal briefing, instead of the ones Trump got while president which used big pictures and a few bullet points written in crayon.
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in the ATL: Having never set foot in Mississippi, I can’t say anything about the wine, but I can assure you that there is nothing that can possibly compare to a “Reuben” I had in the Cincinnati airport. On a white-bread hamburger bun.
Gin & Tonic
@prostratedragon: I sincerely hope that they have good counterintelligence officers preparing his briefings.
Sister Golden Bear
@Gin & Tonic:
‘Lunch of suffering’: plain ‘white people food’ goes viral in China
Steve in the ATL
@Omnes Omnibus: yes. It’s Schrödinger‘s wine.
hueyplong
@Steve in the ATL: It might be interesting to know just what your expectations were when ordering Mississippi airport wine.
Because right now a good guess is that what you got was just desserts.
Steve in the ATL
@Gin & Tonic: to be fair to Cincinnati, their airport is in Kentucky!
Steve in the ATL
@hueyplong: I was hoping for grape-flavored moonshine
Another Scott
@feebog: It seems to me that the Hatch Act prevents Garland (or anyone else who is a supervisor in the federal government) from considering a person’s politics in assigning work assingments.
Cheers,
Scott.
Dan B
@Steve in the ATL: Try West Coast Airport wine instead. The wine on British Airways business class was world class. It was wines I’d only ever read about. I trust that Arkansas, Oklahoma, and the Dakotas are up to the challenge.
Shalimar
@Omnes Omnibus: I am one of Porter’s biggest fans, but it doesn’t matter. You’re right. This is horrible behavior and I’m no longer upset she won’t be in the House next year.
zhena gogolia
@Melancholy Jaques: inorite?
Steve in the ATL
@Sister Golden Bear: it’s a long way from Napa, Russian River, and Paso Robles. You are sheltered out there!
Gin & Tonic
@Steve in the ATL: Not sure why anyone would want to be fair to Cincinnati.
Matt McIrvin
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: Loomis is good when talking about labor relations and labor history–he’s an actual expert in that. Do not listen to anything he says about environmental science– he just tries to out-doom everyone.
Steve in the ATL
@Dan B: because there is no god, or possibly because god hates me, I have been in Mississippi and Alabama the last couple of weeks rather than on the west coast. Let’s talk about local radio here!
Steve in the ATL
@Gin & Tonic: fond memories of the Big Red Machine? Respect for valued posters Ohio Mom, cintibud, and Kathleen? That’s the best I can do.
prostratedragon
@Jay:
@Sister Golden Bear:
😄 The new edition slam dunk competition!
Steve in the ATL
@Another Scott: ignored with impunity by every republican administration since I’ve been alive
Another Scott
@$8 blue check mistermix: OTOH, … Justice.gov:
That’s what I want in an AG.
We don’t want the AG to be the “president’s personal lawyer” – we learned that (but too many forgot, I guess) in the Watergate years.
Cheers,
Scott.
hueyplong
@Steve in the ATL: OK, that’s fair. I’ve had peach moonshine and kinda liked it.
comrade scotts agenda of rage
@Matt McIrvin:
He has an informed point-of-view on labor, yes, given his academic credentials. When he talks about labor *history*, he’s worth reading.
But the couple of friends I have who are active in labor issues nationally know his work generally have a poor opinion of his perspective. And given what I’ve seen of his views on certain issues, he’s as fucking neoliberal as hacks like Yglesias. That being said, Lemeow is worse.
And as was said above:
Steve in the ATL
@prostratedragon:
Forgot you were a Bobby Brown fan. We used to be neighbors, while he was destroying Whitney Houston.
Steve in the ATL
@hueyplong: note to self: never meet up with hueyplong for drinks!
prostratedragon
@Steve in the ATL: D’oh! That was purely incidental. I barely knew New Edition, but seem to recall that BB split from them early.
frosty
There are times to just not have a drink. This was one of them.
Sister Golden Bear
@Steve in the ATL: I’m sure the airport must have a good collection of Boone’s Farm.
@frosty: I recommend substituting tequila. It
may notwon’t be any better than the wine, but after a few shots it won’t matter.Dan B
@Steve in the ATL: I’ll raise you small Arkansas town radio in the 60’s and their wine. Moonshine was tough to come by as well. There’s something about an Arkansas drawl on a radio show that cannot he purged from my id.
Sob;<(
Kathleen
@Leto: “If Joe Biden were serious about bipartisanship he’d reach across the gulag and negotiate with Putin on his legislative agenda.” Ross Douthat (American author and blogger).
Dan B
@Sister Golden Bear: That would probably be a step up.
Quadrillipede
Trying to decide whether I would prefer to be drunk in Mississippi, or sober in Mississippi…
Steve in the ATL
@frosty: i needed it after my encounter refilling the gas tank on my rental car: an overweight, 40-ish white man in camo baseball cap with a giant “Pimpin’ Ain’t Easy” sticker covering the back window of his Chevy pickup truck.
I have serious concerns about the strength of his pimp hand.
Steve in the ATL
@Quadrillipede: that’s easy. I have family all over the Delta and none of them is ever sober!
Kathleen
@Jay: I have a weird feeling that the power company will be let off the hook and rate payers in Texas will foot the bill via through the roof rate increases.
David 🌈 ☘The Establishment☘🌈 Koch
Schiff employed timeless baseball strategy, he intentionally walked a strong hitter to face a weak batter.
If only Larussa had walked Kirk Gibson in 88 or Lasorda had walked Reggie in 77.
Quadrillipede
@Steve in the ATL: I suppose there is something to be said for embracing local customs and traditions…
Sister Golden Bear
@Dan B: That’s why they keep the Boone’s Farm on the top shelf.
frosty
@Steve in the ATL: Fair enough! Good reason to take a chance on the airport bar.
Where in Mississippi? My maternal grandma’s family was from Wiggins near Hattiesburg.
Another Scott
@prostratedragon: I wouldn’t be at all surprised.
I think people need to remember that there’s “classified” and there’s [blink]”CLASSIFIED“[/blink]. Biden’s folks will be very careful about anything TIFG sees in any courtesy briefings.
Cheers,
Scott.
Kathleen
@Geminid: Wearing earrings in the shape of tanks. ETA I’ll be your surrogate Porter basher while maintaining my own Porter bashing regimen. I’ve got a very special episode brand of Ohio abhorrence for her because of her endorsement of the shit for breakfast cereal eater Nina Turner.
Another Scott
@Steve in the ATL: Yet another reason to keep them out of office.
Not a reason to be like them.
;-)
Cheers,
Scott.
Kathleen
@Gin & Tonic: Hey!
Kathleen
@Steve in the ATL: Love you, man! You’re the very first commenter to refer to me as “valued”. That is so sweet!
Fake Irishman
@Sure Lurkalot:
another convenient reason to put Garland at AG was it opened a spot up on the DC circuit court, which is now occupied by a 37-year old progressive lawyer. (After it was occupied by the now Justice Jackson)
Scout211
Good to know. The “classified” documents are the ones in the storage closet and the “CLASSIFIED” documents are the ones in the bathroom, right?
Timill
@Fake Irishman: It also took him out of the running for Breyer’s SC seat.
cintibud
@Steve in the ATL: Geeze I need to pop out of lurkdom to say thanks to that!
Gvg
@Chetan Murthy: yes, and we didn’t know this? Two tier justice is real, and prosecutors have to take it into account in their planning. For a case like this, he cannot screw up. In fact I would argue this is a third tier. Trump has fanatics and calculating enemy support trying to get him off. A normal rich man doesn’t even have that.
It’s not right, but it is real, and Marcy didn’t create it, nor necessarily approve.
What I got from the article was having lawyers be co conspirators is a real advantage, beyond being rich. I don’t think that happens very often and I hadn’t realized how many of these people were actual lawyers themselves. Seems unbelievably stupid of them to get that caught up by Trump, but I guess they got him on their own opinion of themselves.
Manyakitty
@Fake Irishman: fair enough, I don’t know that much about her record. I was more interested in her integrity.
Geminid
@M31: That would be good too. And Ms. Wheeler lives Limerick, Ireland now so she and Mr. Jay are neighbors in a way.
I think Magdi Jacobs lives in Minneapolis now but she seems to be in transition and may travel, so who knows? Jacobs and Jay and Wheeler could hook up. They would make a formidable team.
caphilldcne
@comrade scotts agenda of rage: I think that’s exactly what will happen. If anything they’ve now built too high a wall between DOJ and the administration and its usurping their ability to make legitimate policy decisions.