We talked about this a little in the overnight thread, but it deserves its own post: DOJ prosecutor Jack Smith submitted a filing last night that indicates he’s had enough of Judge Aileen Cannon’s foot-dragging bullshit. Here’s a PDF of the filing. An excerpt of TPM’s analysis below:
In a new filing that bluntly confronts U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon, Special Counsel Jack Smith takes a new tone of incredulousness and disdain for her mishandling of the Mar-a-Lago classified documents case.
The issue at hand is her failure to have yet ruled on Donald Trump’s motion to dismiss based on his inane, unprecedented, and counterfactual reading of the Presidential Records Act. Instead of rejecting the argument out of hand, Cannon not only is entertaining it but ordered the two sides to propose jury instructions based on two different deeply flawed interpretations of the PRA…
Smith ripped her interpretations of the PRA: “both of the Court’s scenarios are fundamentally flawed and any jury instructions that reflect those scenarios would be error.” He said her “legal premise is wrong” and her requested jury instructions “would distort the trial.”
Smith all but threatened to take Cannon up on appeal, urging her to rule promptly and not wait until a jury has been seated and thereby deprive the government of the opportunity to appeal. At this point, Smith would prefer an adverse ruling to no ruling at all: “Whatever the Court decides, it must resolve these crucial threshold legal questions promptly. The failure to do so would improperly jeopardize the Government’s right to a fair trial.”
I’m not a lawyer, but Cannon’s delay on the PRA-based motion to dismiss and demand for juror instructions seems like putting the cart before the horse. Since she’s moving with the blazing speed of a three-legged turtle, Cannon hasn’t even set a trial date, so jury instructions aren’t urgent. But by delaying the ruling, she deprives Smith of the opportunity to ask appeals court judges to explain how the PRA works to her.
Maybe it’s a risky move on Smith’s part, challenging Cannon like that — he all but called her a dumb poopy-head. But I don’t think he had any choice.
Open thread.
For the Night Shift
Baud
Not my area of expertise, but it does seem early for jury instructions. And also odd that she would ask the lawyers about what proposed instructions should say.
Captain C
IANAL, but perhaps this is part of him getting her to fuck up so badly that the 11th Circuit has no choice but to remove her, and with a strong reprimand for her ignorance and pro-TIFG fuckery.
Captain C
@Baud:
True, but I suspect that under the best of circumstances she wouldn’t have clue one as to how to give proper jury instructions herself, on any case. This includes parking ticket cases.
That doesn’t change the fact that I also suspect she wants to know what TIFG wants, so she can be sure that he isn’t convicted.
Jeffro
It’s much less risky than continuing to let this drag out. The rule of law is hanging by a thread.
Baud
@Captain C:
It’s ok to ask the parties to propose jury instructions. Happens all the time. But it sounds like she didn’t leave it up to the lawyers to propose what they wanted.
JPL
@Baud: Maybe Cannon is getting her instructions from Alina Habba.
rikyrah
CLAP CLAP CLAP
Should have been done this.
Get that phucking hack off this case.
Manyakitty
I believe the technical term is “weak, sad, poop”.
Baud
@JPL:
I hate that I always read her name as Ali Baba.
MattF
NAL, but the discussion in Smith’s filing about the pros and cons of a writ of mandamus is a BFD. It’s the nuclear option.
Captain C
@Baud: In other words, “give me jury instructions that will serve my own goals in this trial” as opposed to having any real relation with what the law says.
Baud
@MattF:
It is. Big black eye on her if she gets a mandamus order.
Trollhattan
In
Soviet RussiaBaltimore, bridge hit you!Or: “Nothing to see here, it was that way when we found it. Now let’s not get stuck on who hit what and hey, it’s Final Four time!”
smith
Smith is requesting a ruling well in advance of jury selection, so he has a chance to appeal if, as likely, her ruling is legally bonkers. It’s not clear to me what happens if she continues to dither, but if I’m understanding him correctly, Ben Meisalas thinks Smith is threatening to seek a writ of mandamus if she tries to push the ruling off until then, to avoid the government being trapped by double jeopardy. It’s an ultimatum to her: Rule and be appealed, don’t rule and be appealed anyway.
cmorenc
Cannon will continue her organized foot-dragging and blowing off Smith, so long as she entertains visions of “Justice Cannon” in her head, should Trump win in November, or else the 11th Circuit intervenes to order her to straighten up, fly right, and get going pronto or else be removed from the case. Should Trump lose in November, it might be absolutely remarkable how quickly Cannon shifts to playing the case far more straight-up and moving proceedings briskly along.
Burnspbesq
Well, she *is* a poopy-head, and the sooner the Special Counsel has an immediately appealable order from her, the better.
Ceci n est pas mon nym
It’s frustrating that she’s just cunning enough to avoid doing things that can be appealed. I hope Smith has some way of forcing her to act (and therefore give him something to take to the 11th circuit). But I’m kind of discouraged so far.
Betty Cracker
@Captain C: That was my read too — Smith says the PRA is a ruse that’s irrelevant to the case, so introducing it to the jury would harm the DOJ’s case. I also enjoyed how the filing went on at length about the PRA being a post hoc attempt at justification that was cribbed from Tom Fitton, the Judicial Watch twatwaffle who is NOT a lawyer.
Baud
@Trollhattan:
UncleEbeneezer
@Baud: On the contrary: she asked the Govt to completely misrepresent the law. I don’t think Smith had any choice but to respond as he did. I just read the whole thing and it is absolutely blistering and the clarity is superb. The jury instructions are in three forms:
Smith also points out repeatedly that Trump never declared the documents as “personal” and he and his attorneys have referred to them as “Presidential” numerous times, even in this court.
twbrandt
@Trollhattan: We all the saw the video – that stupid bridge just jumped right out in front of the ship! No way was the ship at fault.
UncleEbeneezer
@smith: He says as much in the brief:
Dupe1970
@twbrandt:
If that bridge didn’t want to be hit like that, it shouldn’t have been all girded up so sexily….
smith
@UncleEbeneezer: Thank you! I was searching for that, but somehow couldn’t find it.
It means Cannon is between a rock and a hard place, and can’t continue her preferred strategy of just not ruling. Smith doesn’t say how far his patience will stretch, but it’s probably a good thing that she doesn’t know exactly when he will lower the boom.
danielx
Generally not recommended to tell a federal judge where to get off, but when said federal judge is as deeply in the tank for TFG as this one appears to be…..
New Deal democrat
Here’s my take, fwiw:
Smith has concluded that Cannon must be removed from the case. Now he is just trying to get the best procedural posture to go to the 11th Circuit.
Recall that several months ago, Smith filed a Motion for Reconsideration of a bonkers ruling Cannon made about how to deal with classified documents during trial (if I recall correctly). She has yet to decide that Motion (if she did, Smith could appeal from the ruling).
Cannon is certainly giving all indications of holding crucial rulings open until after a jury is impaneled, after which double jeopardy attaches and there is nothing that can be done.
I don’t know if this is Smith’s final warning shot or not, but it certainly seems very close.
FWIW, if Smith has his ducks lined up properly, I think the 11th Circuit will boot her from the case, especially after last year.
UncleEbeneezer
@Betty Cracker: Not only that, Smith also cites evidence that Trump was even told it was a bullshit argument by his own attorney.
hueyplong
My experience is nearly entirely civil, so grain of salt, etc. But here’s a take anyway:
It is fairly normal for jury instructions to be argued during/at the close of a trial. But the normal situation is one in which both sides agree on what the law actually is (and if they haven’t, that got resolved via motion before the trial began). The argument is usually whether the evidence was sufficient to allow generally accepted instructions (pursuant to something called Pattern Jury Instructions) to be given about witnesses, the law related to the issues in the trial, etc.
Here, Smith rightly suspects that the judge would seat a jury, then spring idiotic “law” on him, and dismiss the case with double jeopardy then in effect so that Trump walks.
So he forces the applicable law issue now, via an extra early fight over the substantive content of jury instructions.
Unless the Eleventh Circuit gets uber aggressive, she’ll figure a way to delay this past November, so he can only be convicted if he loses the election. The small consolation is that Trump won’t be able to use this particular case to delay the others.
Manyakitty
I can’t help but wonder if someone from the Leo/Crow patronage network is pulling her strings. She’s so random it seems like she’s waiting for the next set of directions.
Yeesh.
smith
This probably has been her intention all along, and it’s actually kinda stupid of her to signal it so far in advance and in so many ways. If she’d just played along and acted like a real judge until a jury is seated she’d have been in a much better position to pull it off.
Redshift
On Preet Bharara’s Cafe Insider podcast, he and Joyce Vance were discussing how Cannon is taking this point, which should be decided by the judge before the trial because it is an issue of law and not an issue of fact, and trying to punt it to the jury phase. The were exploring the scenario that by waiting until then, Cannon could dismiss the case based on the ridiculous Presidential Records Act argument and it couldn’t be retried because of double jeopardy (because the trial would have already started.)
These two are definitely not outrage-bait types; their discussions of the cases (other than patently ridiculous arguments by Trump lawyers) tend toward “we’d all like things to be proceeding better/faster, but really, this is how the justice system works.” They were pained to even have to entertain the possibility that this was deliberate sabotage (and not incompetence by Cannon), but thought it was the only explanation that made sense. I don’t think Cannon is smart enough to come up with this ploy, but the Federalist Society operatives who are no doubt advising her certainly are.
Redshift
@hueyplong: Jinx! Thanks for explaining it better.
TeezySkeezy
@Baud: OTOH, she’s never going to get legitimate respect by trying to be a decent judge because she just isn’t good enough (and the MAGA fever swamp has probably convinced her it’s liberal society holding her back not her own dim-wittedness) so her only shot at “greatness” is ingratiating herself to Trump and hoping (probably unrealistically) for a shot at SCOTUS. It’s either that way or no way for her. Who cares if she has a bad mark on her professional record? That kind of stuff only “liberal elites” care about.
hueyplong
@smith: Yes. At times we, like Blanche DuBois, rely on the incompetence of strangers.
UncleEbeneezer
@New Deal democrat: Michael Popok did a good video explaining how Cannon’s request could get her bounced by the 11th Circuit using the Torkington test.
hueyplong
@Redshift: Haha, I’m not 100% sure I did.
cain
@Baud: Makes sense since she is associated with at least 40 thieves.
Baud
@cain:
Zing!
lowtechcyclist
@Baud:
Alina Habba and the
40 thievesOrange Griftercain
@cmorenc:
She can’t be that dumb – Trump’s mental acuity is dropping weekly. He has an uphill battle in this election and MAGA’s popularity is dropping.
If she was a proper betting woman, she should be thinking more about her future and where history will place her – it won’t be kind.
laura
I’m pro this. And I think that one does not need to be a lawyer to see that demanding jury instructions prior to even empaneling a jury in a criminal case would signal to potential jurors how to guarantee a get out of liability golden ticket and kill this case in it’s crib. If this opinion deserves criticism or derision, I stand at the ready. This travesty and tragedy of justice makes me sick down to my bones.
UncleEbeneezer
@Redshift: I love Preet and Joyce but my understanding is that judges do NOT usually ask for jury instructions before issuing a ruling on what the law actually says (which is her job as the judge). They also seem to be naive in the pace of CIPA cases. Ryan Goodman is a CIPA expert who is on the Jack Podcast all the time and he is absolutely dumbfounded by Cannon’s failure to make significant and crucial rulings to keep things moving. He has attested that he has NEVER seen cases move this slow or a judge simply refusing to issue easy and straightforward rulings.
hueyplong
@cain: But she is MAGA, and MAGAts aren’t exactly world class when it comes to context or common sense, much less the verdict of history.
cain
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
She’s probably being managed from her federalist society people.
TBone
@Manyakitty: I point in a direct line from there toward Pooty, because this case has serious national security and espionage implications. Maybe I’m being hyperbolic, but when you think about what’s at stake here…
Dorothy A. Winsor
@UncleEbeneezer: Thanks for the link. That’s interesting.
Manyakitty
@TBone: absolutely. There is no doubt in my mind he’s involved.
smith
With Jack Smith’s shot across her bow, I wonder if Cannon is thinking at all about her popularity among the judges in the 11th Circuit court. They must be mortified watching her antics, especially after she was previously so decisively schooled by them in how to judge. The 5th circuit judges notwithstanding, I don’t think it’s usual for federal judges to act like children with oppositional defiance disorder, as Cannon has been doing. I can’t imagine they will hesitate to do whatever it takes to recuse her when they finally get the chance, even if doing so is an extraordinary step.
TBone
@Manyakitty: also like the Supremacist Court, you can’t just make shit up and call it legal! WTF. The PRA doesn’t convey magical powers, last time I checked.
Manyakitty
@TBone: I still can’t get past that totally fabricated bakery case that WON. JFC. Rage.
TBone
@Manyakitty: farcical
Jeffro
Oh, absolutely. I have thought this almost from the start.
RandomMonster
@lowtechcyclist: Ali Baba and the 45 Thief
Melancholy Jaques
Cannon is a Trumpster and like the rest of them, she does not care what anyone else thinks. She is going to do whatever she can to prevent any negative outcomes for Trump. She cannot be persuaded or intimidated. I know it’s just another old man in the bleachers talking about the major league shortstop, but if Smith wanted recusal, he had to make that motion right after Cannon was assigned, argue appearance of bias based on Cannon making up laws in the earlier case. Generally, adverse rulings in a trial cannot be a basis for disqualification. I wish him way more than good luck.
Manyakitty
@Jeffro: she’s clearly in over her head. Does she have a public docket for her other cases? I wonder if any of those are moving, or if she’s just collecting her fat gubmint checks and hiding from her job.
JoyceH
I can’t discuss this issue intelligently because I’m just too gobsmacked to think that anyone could make it through law school, much less onto the federal bench who could argue seriously that it is potentially the law of the land that any president on the way out the door could gather up our nation’s most dangerous and valuable secrets, unilaterally declare them his own personal property and then haul them away and store them in a club bathroom.
Mike in NC
Fat Bastard’s corrupt judges will be a national problem for years to come.
Villago Delenda Est
Cannon has proven she is not capable of being a Federal Judge. Hell, she probably couldn’t run a night court.
TBone
Maybe relevant to this topic.
https://lawandcrime.com/high-profile/trump-mar-a-lago-judge-may-be-watching-closely-as-jailed-ex-adviser-peter-navarro-ordered-to-turn-over-documents-under-presidential-records-act/
oldgold
To engage on the jury instructions before the trial date is set is extremely unusual. In fact, I have never heard of it.
Cannon is damn green as a Judge. Remember, almost unbelievably, in a recent jury trial Cannon forgot to swear in the jury!
Even if Cannon was a straight shooter, which she appears not to be, she should never have been assigned this case. And, yes, I know that the assignment system is supposedly random, but still, given the totality of the circumstances surrounding this case, assigning it to a green Judge should never have been allowed. The consequences of this idiocy is the chaos and delay that is now playing out.
Manyakitty
@Villago Delenda Est: I’m not convinced she can run a handball court.
TBone
@JoyceH: that was an intelligent remark. The whole world saw the photos in the shitter AND remembers the Chinese spy incidents at Mar-A-Lardass.
Soprano2
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: I think she’s getting instructions on how to handle this from someone else.
Paul in KY
@Manyakitty: I would bet money she has ‘consultants’ helping her ratfuck.
Shalimar
@TeezySkeezy: Cannon isn’t dumb. As the articles last week on her clerks leaving makes clear, she was well-respected in the area before her appointment and was considered above-average by her legal peers. What she lacked was one year of experience as a prosecutor to get to the normal minimum before appointment, which is not a huge deal.
There are multiple arguments about the reasons she is floundering so badly in this case, but my feeling is she’s having trouble coming up with a rationale for ruling for Trump because the case against him is so solid. Any reason she and her clerks come up with is going to be bad if that is what she has already decided the result is going to be.
Soprano2
@Manyakitty: That’s what I think is happening.
Manyakitty
@oldgold: right? It’s unimaginable that this incompetent novice is running one of the most important criminal trials in the history of this country.
@Paul in KY: I want to hear more from her clerks.
Melancholy Jaques
@Shalimar:
I agree. And that is exactly what she did in the earlier case when she appointed the special master without any basis for doing so. There can be no doubt that she knows exactly what she is doing.
Paul in KY
@Manyakitty: Me too!
Uncle Cosmo
Improved that 4u!
Some public-minded citizen ought to hack “Loose” Cannon’s e-mail and phone records and dump the whole sordid puppet dance out into the open.
Brachiator
I am just jumping in and haven’t read all the comments here, but I really would like to hear from the attorneys. Any Constitution experts here, also?
It has always seemed to me that this judge is trying hard to help Trump.
I also thought that the laws were clear, in that presidential papers and documents belonged to the government of the United States, and thus to the people, and had to be given to the appropriate agencies after the president had served his term.
But inevitably Trumped pulled his My, Me, Mine bullshit, as though even classified documents are his personal trophies, which he can wave around for friends, cronies and agents of foreign countries.
And the judge is doing everything possible to support Trump’s spurious claims.
cmorenc
@JoyceH:
She was law review at U. Michigan Law School, which is considered one of the best state law schools in the country, and being on law review is usually earned by being among those with the best grades / class rank standings. So knowing malevolence by a true MAGA-federalist believer, rather than outright stupidity is more likely behind her hackery. That said, some of her mistakes may also be caused by the inexperience-based incompetence as a federal judge – i.e. she hasn’t learned enough yet to clothe her hackery in passable legal form yet, like a would-be-magician who hasn’t yet acquired adequate slight-of-hand skills to pull of convincing tricks just yet.
teezyskeezy
@Shalimar: Maybe I shouldn’t refer to her condition of being “ideologically brain-fried” as “dumb,” but even if she was “above average” is some way her brain is fried on that MAGA sauce and being a lazy fuck myself I don’t care to split hairs on whether that’s dumb or not.
Citizen Alan
@Villago Delenda Est: And yet, barring accident or convictable proof of some crime that sends her to jail, she will remain on the court long after you and I are dead. Just like I don’t expect to live long enough to see SCOTUS referred to as anything but “the Roberts Court,” let alone a liberal SCOTUS that we could have had except for Buttery Males.
Villago Delenda Est
@cmorenc: Ideology over the law seems to be the driving force behind the Federalist Society, and Cannon is fully on board that train.
moops
Why even bother with more obvious and questionable delays? She can just act like a normal competent judge and be certain that Trump’s team will find delay tactics to push things out past the election. Then it won’t matter. Trump loses, proceed with trial and have him locked up. Trump wins, the new AG orders the case settled.
This is almost entirely a performance to impress Trump with her loyalty. The 11th should kick her to the curb for all this.
Manyakitty
@Uncle Cosmo: that is a great idea. Even better if it turns up as a surprise in a criminal investigation.
Hoodie
@cain: Yeah, but she may see her future as either (1) moving up the judicial ranks or into the Justice Dept. if Trump wins or (2) a high paid flunky at a wingnut billionaire funded organization if Trump loses. By being in the bag for Trump, she establishes bona fides in her chosen world irrespective of whether Trump wins or loses. If she performs her job as a judge with integrity, she’s on a train to nowhere if Trump loses. She probably doesn’t want to languish in S. Florida as a district court judge after a Biden win, either.
This is one of the intractable situations that you face in dealing with most Republicans now. The only viable way to maintain their status in the conservative world is to be a Trump acolyte and they stand to lose all status if they reject Trump, especially because they’re not particularly talented and gained their current status only by being goons for the Federalist Society or similar orgs.
Delk
Maybe she wants to be kicked off the case? Probably the only way she avoids the death threats that will happen if she rules against trump.
Sister Golden Bear
@JoyceH: Assumes stupidity, not malice.
Manyakitty
@Sister Golden Bear: ¿Porque no los dos?
rumpole
@Captain C: Ding ding. The gov has to be careful, but her instructions are so batshit (and the delay so obvious) that even if she doesn’t rule, or rules against them, they’ve still got mandamus which they could file for. That’s an extraordinary writ where you have to show a “clear right” to what you want, a clear duty to perform a particular act, and the absence of other rights or remedies.
Here, that’s a tough road: you need to give any judge (particular a federal district judge) A LOT of rope before trying to do something like this. She can still screw them a hundred ways: “The defendant said “I had every right to those documents” on MSNBC. Objection: Hearsay. Judge: Sustained.
Spoiler: that’s not hearsay–statement of party opponent. And unreviewable on appeal in a criminal trial. There’s a hundred ways for her to derail the case. You come at the judge, you best not miss.
Still, the government has a right to a fair trial, the 11th Cir has already bench-slapped her once, and her behavior has been nothing short of bizarre. There are rarely great cases for that kind of writ, but the government’s working on a pretty good one.
JoyceH
@Delk: if she truly wants to escape, it shouldn’t be hard, especially in Florida, to find a compliant doctor who could gin up for her a Medical Emergency that will require a lengthy absence from work.
artem1s
@twbrandt:
Seems like they are attempting to place blame on the pilot and so the Port Authority is libel not the ship or the crew.
Anonymous At Work
It is very much putting the cart before the horse but her job as judge here is carting the deposed monarch off to stand trial and she’s a royalist. AKA, she IS messing up every way possible. ON purpose, to delay the trial and then to sabotage is once a jury is selected (aka when Double Jeopardy attaches).
Jack Smith has been patiently awaiting her to issue an appealable ruling, but he cannot agree to erroneous jury instructions that would be given to a seated jury. At that point, Double Jeopardy applies and young Aileen would simply give the erroneous jury instructions and the jury would vote to acquit, regardless of whatever else she rules.
Now, where I tend to disagree with some commentators is that young Aileen is young and inexperienced in actual law, trying cases, writing opinions, etc. She has all the depth of Alina Habba. She could be incompetent in all the pertinent areas of the case. However, where her incompetence ends, her malfeasance begins. It’s just really hard to decide where some of her actions fall with regards to that division.
Melancholy Jaques
@Brachiator:
I am a lawyer and it seems to me that is what she is doing.
We all know exactly how this would be going if it were a Clinton instead of a Trump. Everyone from the NYT and the WaPo to the lowest rated cable show in America would be screaming every day that the judge had to remove herself.
The need for us to win this election cannot be overstated.
TBone
It’s all so effin predictable 🤬
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/apr/03/trump-media-es-family-trust-2022-loans
Mai Naem mobile
@Manyakitty: Yes and don’t forget her husband’s a mob lawyer with indirect TFG connections. Cannon’s not dumb. Inexperienced but not dumb. You don’t get into Univ of Michigan Law School by being stupid. Fitzmas and Mueller temper my expectations here so its easier to deal with being disappointed.
Manyakitty
@Mai Naem mobile: wait, what? A mob lawyer? JFTDC.
TBone
@TBone: ALL roads lead to Pooty just as Nancy Smash said.
Hoodie
@artem1s: Can’t see how the pilot is responsible for a power failure on their ship. From what I’ve seen, the ship was on a proper course until the power went out and it started veering towards the bridge pier, probably because of loss of helm control that left the pilot powerless to do anything before the power was restored and it was too late to avoid the collision. Of course, this is probably the only defense they can even attempt to muster. I guess they might try some sort of “last clear chance” argument, e.g., the pilot still could have avoided the bridge upon power restoration if he or she had acted properly.
NutmegAgain
I’m making an assumption that TFG himself would not have been able to identify/recruit pliable judges, ones with zero moral compass. I am guessing one of his henchmen had a list (or even a binder!) of names. Does anyone know who was responsible for boosting Cannon into this position. Just curious.
jonas
IIRC, she hadn’t ever tried a criminal case before being nominated to the federal bench and was rated not- or only marginally-qualified by the ABA. Her only qualifications were being 1. a Republican and 2. a member in good standing with the Federalist Society.
Talk about your unqualified DEI hires…
jonas
Federalist Society
smith
@TBone: From the Guardian article you cite:
From CNN just now:
artem1s
I didn’t say the pilot was at fault.
The ship owners are trying to claim that the ship and crew weren’t at fault. It seems as if they may be trying to point the finger at the pilot. The pilot was at the helm when it happened. It was the pilot’s responsibility to get the ship out of the harbor. The pilot failed to get the ship out to sea. The port authority hired the pilot – QED the Port Authority is at fault and should pay damages – and I’ll bet the owners try to sue the Port for damages to the ship.
Bill Arnold
@Manyakitty:
Threadreader thread (@capitolhunters, Jan 13 2024)
Now that Trump has flashed a NY Mafia pal (murderer Sammy Gravano of the Gambino family) to threaten Judge Engoron, is it finally time to mention that Trump’s NY mob ties also touch his “friendly” Judge Aileen Cannon? Her husband worked for John Rosatti of the Colombo family. 1/
Thread has some interesting links in it, too.
jonas
@smith: Nothing but grift. Always and forever. The whole Truth Social/DJT thing is going to collapse in a bunch of lawsuits and SEC criminal referrals within a year or so, I predict. It cannot do otherwise. ETTD.
Manyakitty
@Bill Arnold: holy shit.
Frankensteinbeck
First, I view this demand by Smith as unlikely to get Cannon booted, because there is a pattern of her doing something cockamamie, getting a note from Smith saying “If you don’t fix this I’m going to the 11th Circuit”, and she fixes it just enough. In the process wasting a lot of time.
Second, I read an article by someone who heavily investigated her record, interviewed people who have worked with and for her at various times, and looked at the workload of her court. I don’t know if I believe him, but his argument is worth hearing: He thinks that Cannon is not in Trump’s pocket or stupid. She has the wrong kind of legal training, prepared to debate purely theoretical cases of law in an academic setting, and it has left her in over her head with actually running a court, inclining her to entertain absolutely jackass ideas that any regular judge would throw out. The high profile case that’s out of her skill set has stressed her out, turned her from a judge that clerks love to work with to a classic Bad Boss, and the rapid turnover in her office has piled up work that she doesn’t have the trained staff to handle.
jonas
This case well could drag out and end up producing some interesting precedent-setting law in the end. But I’m sure some tough questions are being asked of the ship’s mechanics and engineers. If everything was greased up and ready to go when they cast off, you shouldn’t just be losing *all* power a few minutes into your voyage. Something went seriously FUBAR down in the engine rooms or in the power plant.
Another Scott
Roger Parloff at Lawfare seems well informed and level-headed about this stuff. My gut says he’s right, so that’s worth a lot!! (IANAL)
Short nitter thread (edited a bit):
The Lawfare piece.
The CaseText information.
See the original for other embedded links.
Cheers,
Scott.
HumboldtBlue
@Baud:
Very good.
jonas
That sounds like an *extremely* generous assessment, probably from someone who likes Cannon personally and wants to give her the benefit of the doubt. A much simpler explanation, taking into account not only this most recent bullshit with the “hypothetical jury instructions” but also her decision to assign a special master earlier in the case when there was nothing logically related to ACP at stake, suggests that she’s just trying to fuck with Smith and the case against the guy who gave her her lifetime job despite being woefully unqualified for it.
Paul in KY
@Delk: If so, she’s not been thorough enough. Tis a high bar to cross to get kicked off a case for being incompetent and/or biased.
TBone
@smith: plea change, maybe someone flipped. All of the champs running this thing are suing each other, also too…I foresee that they’ll never get to the discovery phase. This’ll be another SQUIRREL OVER THERE and go away quietly somehow.
Manyakitty
@Another Scott: I like Lawfare. Thanks.
MisterForkbeard
@jonas: I think it’s both, really.
She’s incompetent and inexperienced AND corrupt, and she’s listening to insane federalists and pro-Trump idiots like Tom Fitton.
So where she has no idea what to do, her federalist buddies give her direction and she does it. But she can’t finesse it and in many cases probably doesn’t understand that she’s being an obvious shill.
bbleh
@smith: This probably has been her intention all along, and it’s actually kinda stupid of her to signal it so far in advance.
This. I don’t know who she has advising her — I can’t imagine she doesn’t have at least a few senior Republican lawyers whispering instructions in her ear — but when I first heard about this request, I thought she was tipping her hand in a bad way
@Manyakitty: what you said. (I never read far enough …)
smith
@jonas: I agree. If she were just in over her head and floundering, her actions wouldn’t so consistently lean in favor of TFG. They’d more likely be all over the map. In addition, if it just were an issue of having the wrong kind of training and experience she could easily address that by seeking advice from more experienced trial judges. Instead she automatically endorses cockamamie legal theories advanced by TFG’s lawyers, and apparently takes actions based on the political goals of the Federalist Society. She’s made so many serious and obvious flubs without evidently even trying to do better you can only conclude she has ulterior motives.
StringOnAStick
@TBone: I dunno, insider trading tends to get slapped pretty hard.
Trivia Man
He did say SOMEONE is a dumb poopyhead. If the shoe fits, wear it.
Chief Oshkosh
@Ceci n est pas mon nym:
Maybe. I suspect that she’s at least getting a lot of advice from her Federalist Society buddies. They, of course, are happy to suggest that she proceed in ways that they never would do themselves.
She’s young and stupid. After a while, she’ll be old and stupid. And hopefully off the bench.
bk
@Mai Naem mobile: No, her husband is a restaurant executive, not a “mob lawyer”.
UncleEbeneezer
Harry Litman says Smith is pushing back on a B- law student, lol
brantl
@Shalimar: She IS dumb, she thinks Stumpy’s right.
Hoppie
@hueyplong: Nice tie-in to your nym there. Well played.
Another Scott
@Frankensteinbeck: People are strange.
But let’s consider a counter-factual.
Consider if she were acting like Judge Roy Bean. We wouldn’t look at the actions in his court as being from someone who was inexperienced or over his head. We would say that he’s taking the law into his own hands and not running a fair court.
I think the same thing is happening here. It doesn’t matter if she was a good student in law school, or not.
Judges have clerks to be able to do their jobs correctly, by looking at the details of the various arguments, checking the references and cites, separating out sound arguments from those that are not. The judge is supposed to figure out the big picture, supported by the details the clerks (and the briefs) present.
She’s a bad judge and is clearly trying to help TIFG. The law about classified materials is well settled and extremely clear. The documents are not his, and he cannot make them his on just his say-so. They belong to the United States. He knows that, that’s why he tried to sneak out with them rather than going through the process of trying to declassify them legally. No PRA mumbo jumbo changes well-settled national security law.
By not doing her job (as Kay says, people get into trouble when they do stuff that isn’t their job), she’s burning down her career and also damaging the country in the process.
I disagree that she has any future on any imaginary TIFG SCOTUS. He needs people like her in the lower courts for protection (and to decide the “facts” that are the baseline in any appeals). She would stay exactly where she is to do that. She doesn’t have the skills to move up, and any future seat is too valuable to give her. Some other damaged brainiac from the Federalist Society bench would get the seat instead.
IANAL.
My $0.02.
Cheers,
Scott.
sdhays
@Bill Arnold: WTF?? Seriously?
JoyceH
Now it’s coming out – the driver who rammed his car at the GA FBI gate is a Q-anon Trumpist. This is my shocked face …
Baud
@JoyceH:
Glad it wasn’t one of ours for the first time.
Jay
@bk:
He is now COO of Bobby’s Burgers, Bobby Flay’s chain, but he was in at the start of BurgerFi, which is Mob owned.
WaterGirl
@Manyakitty:
That’s funny, I don’t wonder about that at all. I am absolutely convinced of it.
cain
@Frankensteinbeck: I think you’re referring to an article that was posted here in BJ last week. I read the same one. It’s an interesting read and it kind of rings true to me.
bbleh
@UncleEbeneezer: fun to listen to! but he’s wrong that Smith didn’t do as ordered: they DID draft instructions according to her order. they labeled them “incorrect,” but they did draft and submit them. she can’t hold them in contempt for disobeying.
geg6
@Mai Naem mobile:
People keep saying this. I do not believe this is true. Some of the stupidest people I know went to prestigious schools for undergrad and grad and have professional or other terminal degrees. Working at a major university has shown this to be true in spades.
Brachiator
@Melancholy Jaques:
Thanks for the response. I thought that this was a strong government case, but the judge seems to be doing all she can to help Trump.
Totally agree.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@geg6: At some point, the ability to learn is a factor of character, not IQ
rikyrah
@jonas:
that he’s trying to stiff his partners in crime already is nothing short of hilarious.
UncleEbeneezer
@bbleh: Yeah, I thought the same thing. But I think that’s kind of what he meant. Smith complied just enough but refused in spirit. He definitely didn’t give Cannon the response she wanted.
Josie
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
You stated this beautifully. We are seeing the truth of it all around us these days.
Jay
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/man-who-used-megaphone-to-lead-attack-on-police-during-capitol-riot-gets-over-7-years-in-prison-1.6832034
Brachiator
@Mai Naem mobile:
This doesn’t speak to possible political bias.
smith
From what I read, TFG’S lawyers, on the other hand, didn’t do their homework, just came back with more blah, blah, blah.
Chris Johnson
@UncleEbeneezer: Jean-Claude Mandamus
gwangung
@smith: And she’ll excuse one, but not the other….
rikyrah
@Frankensteinbeck:
Why is she given the benefit of the doubt. Stop giving these people the benefit of the doubt.
Baud
@Frankensteinbeck:
If true, deciding the legal issue of whether the Presidential Records Act is applicable should be up her alley.
bbleh
@Frankensteinbeck: @jonas: @Another Scott: @rikyrah: arguendo, giving her the benefit of the doubt, she oughta be smart enough to realize she’s in over her head, if only for purely logistical reasons, and she should recuse herself. “Dear Chief Judge, my docket is too crowded and many of my staff are too new to enable me to handle a case of this magnitude expeditiously, so justice will better be served if someone with a lighter load and more experienced staff takes it on, thx.”
But mostly I don’t buy it. Some of it is greenness, but it’s mostly bias.
rikyrah
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
clap clap clap
wjca
From what I’ve read, prior to this she was actually a reasonably competent judge. It’s just that, as we’ve all noted numerous times, Trump destroys anything he touches. This time, she’s the one on the receiving end.
hueyplong
@Baud: I express no opinion one way or the other on Cannon’s intelligence as applied to her job, but the facts before us in this case and the one before renders laughable any assertion that Cannon is not effectively in Trump’s pocket.
I mean, we can see what’s in front of us. Withholding judgment way after it’s all obvious is itself kind of stupid or an exercise in bad faith, isn’t it?
Trump’s failure to criticize her over the last year plus, standing alone, resolves all doubt.
scav
The Truth Circus has nearly got all three rings of entertaining magical grift-based economics going — with a full complement of clowns, bareback riders, snake oil salesman and bearded ladies to swell the scenes. Cum one cum all, let’s run the freaking government as this Titan of all-mercan business genius dictates!
geg6
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Agreed.
geg6
@rikyrah:
I literally LOLed when I read about that this morning.
WaterGirl
@jonas: Agree. When you’re in over your head, for whatever reason, it makes no sense to jump months ahead to jury instructions when you haven’t even set a fucking trial date.
Mr. Bemused Senior
He stiffs everyone. From his own lawyers to the guy who supplied pianos to the Taj Mahal. Why should this be any different?
WaterGirl
@MisterForkbeard:
I don’t buy that for even a minute.
geg6
@rikyrah:
Well, she went to UMichigan Law! She was on the Law Review! She must be brilliant and is outsmarting Smith at every turn because she’s a once in a lifetime law brain!
/s
Bobby Thomson
Although ordinarily it’s bad practice to say something true like that to the judge, what’s she going to do? Be biased and corrupt? He’s writing for the Eleventh Circuit, anyway.
hueyplong
@geg6: You could say that “outmaneuvering Smith at every turn” also ends the inquiry regarding recusal, seeing as how that’s actually the job of Trump’s lawyers, not the federal judge. But I get your point about how that’s the way FoxNews likely presents things.
geg6
@hueyplong:
It’s also the way several people in this comment section are presenting it. She’s not brilliant. She’s a very stupid person who may have known how to do well in college or law school, but that doesn’t make her smart, let alone brilliant. As Dorothy says above, character is a factor in intelligence. If you are a terrible person, say a criminal who goes on a crime spree and isn’t caught for months or years, you aren’t generally very intelligent. Like Trump, you may be cunning, but that’s not the same as smart.
I could name you at least a dozen people here at my university who have impressive sounding degrees from prestigious universities, pages and pages making up their CVs and are exactly the type of person who is a very stupid person’s idea of someone who is brilliant. Hell, look around Congress. Lots of impressive sounding degrees from prestigious universities but are people my dogs could outsmart in a minute.
Betty Cracker
@Dorothy A. Winsor: So true!
SomeRandomGuy
The whole case is predicated upon two ridiculous arguments.
1) Bill Clinton had some recordings of interviews that were personal property, and no one really disputed it. When he went to court, to assert they were personal records, he won the case, because they were recordings of interviews of a man, not of the POTUS. He kept them in his sock drawer, and no one ever thought they dealt with policy or legislation, so there was no question that they *did not* fall under the PRA. The courts ruled in his favor, so Trump thinks the “Clinton Socks Case” proves he can declare *anything* to be personal records.
2) Early in his term, he blabbed some information to Russians – the critical parts were the information, and that it came from Israel. About a week later, he bragged that “never said it came from Israel!”. Immediately, Republicans started insisting he could declassify *anything* before saying it. TFG has taken this meritless argument to heart.
The second point is important to understand. It’s likely true, if the President feels a need to express some random classified fact, there’s no criminal prosecution possible or desirable. But that the POTUS can say “our nuclear subs have a top speed of (I dunno how many) knots” doesn’t mean that he can then hand over nuclear sub performance information, and say it wasn’t classified! The difference between “the President can blab” and “the President can steal documents, and provide them to anyone” is huge.
This is why TFG speaks as if he has done nothing wrong. He’s so used to Republicans making excuses for him that he might not even realize that they were just making up whatever BS it took to make his unprecedented gaffe blow over in the news media. If he had a real judge, and not a TFG-appointee, he’d be crapping his pants with fear (assuming he doesn’t do that sans fear already).
hueyplong
I guess my punch line is that she’s demonstrated flagrant bias, and recusal is proper without any inquiry into her abilities/intelligence/workload/etc., i.e., I don’t give a shit how “smart” she is or whether her moves are her own or are whispered into her ear. They stand on their own and call for recusal.
And I’m well and truly weary of MSM pieces fondling pearls over whether a motion to recuse is proper. Trump is doing it in every one of his cases other than this one (and additionally tossing in such idiocy as a transfer of venue to Staten Island). Don’t see fretting about the propriety of that in stories about those cases.
The day we stop grading these people on a curve will be a good one. Hell, we do it all the way through their obituaries, right, Joe Lieberman?
Martin
@twbrandt: There are real factors here. We know the ship had mechanical work done while it was in port, presumably for the electrical system problems it knew about before arriving at port. If the work they contracted to have done in port was done incorrectly, and led to the electrical system failing again, it’s possible the contractor, not the shipping company would be liable. (I would expect the shipping company insurer to pay out, and then seek compensation from the contractor or their insurer). The ship was also being leased by Maersk and it might be Maersk who is liable, depending on how those contracts get written (unlikely, but you never know). The shipping company could also make a claim that the pilots that the port provides to navigate the ship through the channel were the ones at fault (hard to see how, but who knows).
Everyone really should ignore all of this legal finger pointing. A lot of that is really just playing the game by the rules the courts have set up. It’ll get resolved in the end, one way or another.
hueyplong
@SomeRandomGuy: “If he had a real judge, and not a TFG-appointee, he’d be crapping his pants with fear (assuming he doesn’t do that sans fear already).”
Dude dropped a load in front of a half dozen people while you were typing that.
Captain C
We can tell the so-called Deep State doesn’t exist as MAGAts and Tankies claim it does, because if it did, Cannon’s fucking around with a national security case like this one in the favor of the accused would have already led to her name being mentioned in the same breath as Judge Crater.
stinger
@Dorothy A. Winsor:
Ask me how I know you’re a teacher. 😀
Betty
@TBone: Dominica’s shady Russian connections make the news.
smith
In totally unsurprising news, Merchan has rejected TFG’s claims of presidential immunity. Isn’t that one of the motions Cannon has yet to rule on in the docs case? Along with those related to publicizing witness names and CIPA restrictions, if I recall correctly. She’s really backing them up.
Baud
@smith:
Don’t the crimes in that case predate his term?
jonas
@bbleh: As is the case with many self-righteous conservatives, the Dunning-Krueger effect is strong in this one.
smith
@Baud: Yes, but that didn’t stop him from claiming immunity, I think because the coverup continued after he took office.
jonas
I forgot where I saw it, but someone was saying the other day that it appears that Trump is the one who will probably be screwed over here. He’s basically the stoolie set up to draw in the other marks. He can’t cash out for six months at least, and the second he does, the whole thing comes crashing down, assuming he doesn’t become president. Barring that, he has a decision to either go down with the ship and never admit he was wrong and lose everything, or bail out for pennies on the dollar and pretend it never existed.
jonas
One of those things that just has you staring incomprehindingly into the far distance, blinking slowly…
Jeffro
It’s pretty clear to me that the documents case – the trial AND the outcome for trumpov – is the one that the GOP powers-that-be fear the most.
No wonder they want to drag it out just as far as possible (even if trump’s going to lose, they have to be worried about the impact on down-ballot races).
The GOP base doesn’t care much about hush money paid to a mistress (obvs) but the facts in the documents case will hit home with enough folks to really seal the party’s fate this cycle.
a thousand flouncing lurkers (was fidelio)
Maybe Cannon sees that she’s between a rock and a hard place. Unless lightning strikes and produces the most bizarre technicality imaginable, TFG is guilty as sin and convictable of charges nearly all Americans would see as treason. Anything she can do to get him off is going to be seen as interference and screw over her future career in the federal judiciary. (If Mr. Justice Cavanaugh thought his hearing was an ordeal…) On the other hand, not bending over backwards to do anything she can for him will be seen as a personal betrayal (and I don’t think this is hyperbole), placing her family and herself at risk of a little stochastic terror action. Recusing herself would be seen as selling him out as well.
So maybe she’s daring Smith & the 11th Circuit “Ask for my removal/remove me. Please. I’m begging you. You’re my only hope. Please don’t fail me.” In her shoes, I’d want out, and I might just be afraid enough that this would be my only was to escape.
catclub
@bbleh: The great thing about this for Trump is that if she does recuse he can justifiably say there is a two tier system of justice and that the Deep State pulled her from the case because she was impartial. AND it will delay the start of a trial.
I wonder if Cannon knows this?
Maybe there will be even more delay if she forces the 11th circuit to pull her via writ of mandamus.
smith
@jonas: Welcome to MAGAworld. It’s on a par with believing that he has presidential immunity for the crimes he committed after leaving office because of some magical mental boogity-boogity that only ex-presidents can do to classified documents, a legal theory that may come to be upheld by no less a judicial luminary than Aileen “Judge” Cannon.
sdhays
@Baud: You didn’t know that becoming President automatically makes you cleansed of all of your crimes, past and future?
Baud
@sdhays:
It’s like accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior!
bbleh
@catclub: he’s gonna say that no matter what. And in any case, one should not condition one’s actions on possible or likely Republican reactions, because they always overreact, without any regard to the facts of the situation, and sometimes for no reason at all. It’d be like taking cues from the howls of a rabid hyena.
If she’s removed, he’s in a world of trouble, cuz this case is damning.
Martin
@Another Scott: I agree. I don’t find the argument upthread that she was a respected attorney and is just having trouble throwing the case for Trump with an argument that will be accepted to be plausible. Those are contradictory concepts. She’s either a good jurist or a hack, and grades can suggest a disqualifying of an individual but they cannot suggest a qualifying. Grades point to an understanding of theory, it says nothing about a persons agenda. I had straight-A students that were sociopaths – that had no moral compass.
mvr
FWIW, I once caught a three-legged box turtle that I kept for a pet for a week when I was 6 before once again releasing it in the woods behind our house. It moved much faster than Judge Cannon.
smith
@catclub: There would certainly be a delay while a new judge gets up to speed, but I’m not sure it would be more than we’re seeing now courtesy of Judge Cannon. A competent judge could make quick work of the stack of nonsense motions sitting on her docket and get the trial on the road. Whether we’d get the trial in before the election I couldn’t say, since that depends a lot on how long Jack Smith waits before he pulls the trigger.
To my mind there are two distinct advantages to changing judges even if it adds delay: First, it removes the specter of Cannon dismissing all the charges after the jury is empanelled, in which case the government cannot appeal.
Second, it allows the possibility that the trial will at least begin before the election, something that is guaranteed not to happen if Cannon stays in place. Having an ongoing criminal trial is the next best thing to getting a conviction before the election. It will make it really hard for voters to forget what TFG is accused of.
Baud
@mvr:
Probably had a better legal mind too.
Ruckus
@Hoodie:
It’s been a few decades since my time working on an ocean going ship so some things likely have changed but a ship that size fully loaded does not change course fast or rapidly. And that’s with every system working properly. Without the propeller pushing water past the rudder it won’t turn as fast, because the force of the water over the rudder helps it turn and the propeller wasn’t turning. This was a situation that everything had to go correctly – and it wasn’t and it didn’t.
cain
@smith:
I would think that would destroy her reputation. It’s not like all the other court cases that Trump is involved in are going to magically go away.
Secondly, _any_ evidence of Trump leaking those documents to anyone especially as part of a transaction – that’s going to fall on her as well especially if she unilaterally dismisses it. I mean this is a national security issue and she’s weakened it.
smith
@cain: It would certainly trash her reputation, but the evidence we have so far is that she doesn’t care, since she’s taken so many opportunities to trash it since even before the case was assigned to her.
JaySinWA
@mvr: You’re talking about box turtle Ben aren’t you?
https://www.eschatonblog.com/2010/04/box-turtle-ben_16.html
SomeRandomGuy
@Frankensteinbeck: I think I heard it said that Cannon has very little trial experience, neither as an attorney, nor as a judge.
What I’m seeing reminds me of the start of “My Cousin, Vinny” where he explains he hasn’t learned “courtroom procedure” which is expected as a learn by doing.
Looking at Cannon as someone who has picked up a huge criminal case, doesn’t quite know how to do things, and, listens to far too much Republican talk radio, and I see a lot of her decisions occur as a normal human might if they weren’t in a criminal trial.
It’s similar to how I hear a lot of Republican FBI agents were furious at the raid on M-a-L because TFG would *surely* return this crap if asked, and did they even bother to ask if the raid followed multiple, polite, requests? Of course not!
@geg6: It’s true: you can’t be *STUPID* and get into a good law school. But you’d be amazed at how stupid people can be, especially when they have a piece of paper saying they’re definitely not stupid.
One thing I found very telling: I saw an article saying that, while brilliant people have law degrees, brilliant people don’t tend to get law degrees. “I’m a genius” leads to “become a doctor, or researcher, or engineer, or go into investment and become a quant…”.
The law doesn’t demand much raw intelligence. It does demand a lot of knowledge, and the ability to apply knowledge, but while it’s stunning how many people can’t do that, it’s not very stunning when you remember the knowledge is very specialized, very similar from situation to situation, and people have had 3 full years of education in examples of how that knowledge is, and has been, applied.
That said: the echo chamber definitely plays a role. Remember: the SCOTUS was horrified that churches had any attendance restrictions during a pandemic – they wanted the church aisles packed full, so good, Christian people could get sick, because they are sure Covid-19 doesn’t cause any harm.
So: Cannon may be dumb as a post, but, she isn’t *stupid*. The problem most people see, is, she’s got her thumb on the scale so far that most observers say she’s got both feet on the scale, and is jumping up and down on it. That makes her *look* like an idiot, but she isn’t trying to look smart, she’s trying to help TFG.
sab
@Mai Naem mobile: Wikipedia says he is a restaurant executive.
She went to Duke then U of MI law school so she must be bright. The Federalist Society is simply toxic, and their members are simply evil. They don’t respect the rule of law at all, amd if you want to move up through their ranks you have to toe (or tow?) their line.
SomeRandomGuy
@smith: There’s one special problem about that: in order to claim the right to view classified docs due to your clearance, you must establish “need to know”.
You could have class Q clearance, but be found with a merely “secret” document you have no business reading, and you could be arrested and charged for that. You almost never are – pieces of paper get lost, mis-shuffled, etc., and, as long as you demonstrate that you’re trying to get classified stuff to the proper folks, you’re going to be fine, in any good-faith investigation.
Anyway: even if Trump’s clearance hasn’t been revoked (and I’m sure it has – even the DOE admitted his listing with clearance was an error), he still has no right to have any classified material.
(The BS about him declassifying stuff is nonsense – it comes from when he blabbed Israeli intelligence in front of the Russians, and later said “and the LIEberals were WRONG, I didn’t say it came from Israel!” Seriously, Repubs… you’re proud of defending this guy with nonsense-on-your-knees? I’d be less humiliated blowing a man, who said “suck me or die” – at least I’d be saving a life, not just propping up a dumb, vile, Trumptoad.)
If you listen to the news, you wouldn’t realize that, but, if you review the law, and ignore Republican bloviation, you’d realize that lots of other people would already be in jail, without any hope of making bail, and even less hope of seeing the light of day as a free person (barring compassionate “dump-’em-on-the-street”).
SomeRandomGuy
@jonas: The reason Trump is such a failure is, he’s too greedy. Instead of making lots of money in the casino biz, he wanted to make tons of money in the casino-consulting biz. He’d hire himself, at inflated rates, to do work on casinos, and there’d be no accounting oversight – he was (I believe) trying to enrich himself, thinking of all that fat cash he could collect right now.
A non-greedy person would have thought “my god, a casino is a license to print money! The house ALWAYS wins!” and would have wanted all the fat cash he’d get in a few more years. It looks to me like the trumptoad wanted all the gold, and killed the golden goose as soon as the first couple eggs were laid.
brantl
@artem1s: “liable”, not libel.
topclimber
@jonas: Pennies on the dollar for shares you never paid for can pay for can still be a windfall. If DJT Media is “worth” $5 billion at $50 per share, at 5 cents it is worth $5 million.
Every little deposit to the offshore account adds up. Or as Ben Franklin never said, a penny grifted from thee is a penny gifted to me.
Matt McIrvin
@SomeRandomGuy: I think we also overestimate the money to be had in the casino business. When there were few outlets for legal gambling it was easier, but these days, it’s a saturated market. And a nice-looking casino is expensive.
bbleh
@SomeRandomGuy: also worth noting, the Espionage Act refers to “National Defense Information,” and while classification may be relevant to determining whether something is indeed that, it is not mentioned in the Act because the Act predates the classification system by a generation. Because of that, all the ruckus over whether he “declassified” something with the Awesome Power of his Presidential Mind is mostly irrelevant: classified or not, having been classified it’s almost certainly National Defense Information, and as such he was not entitled to keep it, much less keep it in an insecure environment.
UncleEbeneezer
@bbleh: Thank you. The whole “he declassified them” argument has always been a red herring to create a positive framing for Trump. The charges are: willful retention of National Security documents, obstruction, lying to investigators etc.
Jay
@sab:
He is, right now he’s working for Bobby Flay, before that,
BurgerFi was started and owned by David Ruggerio, son of Saverio Erasmo Gambino and Constance Lazzarino, a known Gambino capo.
He was convicted of credit card fraud, (overbilling at his chain).
So Cannon’s hubby was the COO that took a Mob owned burger shop forward into being an international chain, while still Mob owned until the CEO got busted.
Mai Naem mobile
@geg6: Just to be clear I don’t think she’s outsmarting Jack Smith. I actually think not only is Jack Smith smarter than Cannon he’s got well over a decade more legal experience than she does. From what I’ve read in her bio she doesn’t appear to be a legacy admission to Duke and UM. That doesn’t guarantee she’s smart but at best/worst(however you want to look at it) she’s capable of listening to strategic Federalist thug instructions.
Ruckus
@jonas:
There have been reports that relatively speaking this ship has had maybe more than it’s share of equipment issues.
Now, a piece of machinery as big and powerful as a container ship this size, fully loaded is not going to be as controllable as a ski boat. It has one rudder and prop and one propulsion power plant. It does not turn like your car or that ski boat. It lost power at basically the exact wrong time – unless one was actually trying to hit the bridge. And I don’t think anyone was. A ship with 2 engines, 2 props and 2 rudders has a backup. One with one of each does not. It’s not deep science.
Ruckus
@geg6:
There is a difference to being book smart and being real world smart. And I believe this exists in every single side of life.
Starfish
@geg6: This Substack on Judge Cannon and her Clerks was interesting and humanizing.
Her clerks have either quit or can’t get clearances.
SomeOtherSmith
@SomeRandomGuy:
With respect to classified, I am not a lawyer but I am familiar with how government secrets work.
The Espionage Act pre-dates the classification system by several decades. It criminalizes leaking defense information that would damage the USA. There are several parts (taking sensitive information, improperly storing it, saying you don’t have it, not giving it back, and worst of all, passing it on to our enemies), but they all boil down to the risk of causing damage to the security interests of the USA.
“Classification” is essentially an accounting system to formalize managing state secrets. The categories – CONFIDENTIAL, SECRET, and TOP SECRET – refer to the level of damage that releasing the information would cause. There are further markings to indicate the releasability of the information. NOFORN used to be the term used to indicate that no foreigners, even allies, could get access. SCI (sensitive compartmented information) is restricted to only the people on an access control list. There are many more.
But the main point is, markings and classification are irrelevant. They are mere indicators. The information itself, and the damage it can cause, is what matters.
The sitting president has the ultimate say in what is and is not damaging to the USA, so all classification authority flows from the sitting president down. This alone renders most of Trump’s arguments moot. The second Biden was sworn in Trump became an ordinary citizen with no say in what is and is not damaging.
So it is totally bizarre for anyone to argue that personal records are somehow exempt from the espionage act. It is just as bizarre to hear people talking about whether they were declassified or not. (“Declassification” is an official determination that releasing the information no longer poses a danger to the USA. Does it? Can a president declassify something for an evening so he can take it upstairs to read?)
Hypothetically, consider Trump having a complete list of all covert agents. From the perspective of the Espionage act it just doesn’t matter if the list is hand-written into a secret diary, on a tiny microfilm chip, or neatly typed up on official letterhead with appropriate markings. If our enemies got a hold of it there would be grave damage to the USA.
If he took the list without authorization, failed to keep it in a safe manner, lied about having it, refused to give it back when asked, or worst of all, passed it along to our enemies he is guilty regardless of the media it is on.
So this “Presidential Records Act” angle is total bull shit. It REALLY, REALLY DOES NOT MATTER who owns the paper the information is printed on.
Mai Naem mobile
@Manyakitty: I know this thread is dead . I got busy with work yesterday so didn’t get back on till night time. Cannon’s husband’s was an executive for several years at a multi location restaurant company which is reputedly owned by a mobster who at some point either hung out with or did business with TFG.
Paul in KY
@mvr: I once found a big male one that had a shell about a foot long with very bright yellow patches on shell. Turned him loose in a friend’s back yard out in the country. He was probably over 100 years old.
Paul in KY
@SomeOtherSmith: Agree. Was the base COMSEC officer once upon a time (there’s a thankless job) and it all revolves around need to know and all classification/declassification is thouroughly documented in writing.