If you want to follow along on SCOTUSblog.
I’ll copy the short summaries as each one shows up on their website.
Here we go!
In City of Grant Pass v. Johnson, the court rules that “camping ban” laws restricting the homeless from sleeping on public property do not constitute “cruel and unusual punishment” and are therefore not prohibited by the Eighth Amendment.
Sotomayor writes the dissent:
“I remain hopeful that someday in the near future, this Court will play its role in safeguarding constitutional liberties for the most vulnerable among us. Because the Court today abdicates that role, I respectfully dissent.
OPINION: 6-3 rating (bad)
The court overrules its 1984 decision in Chevron v. Natural Resources Defense Council, which held that courts should defer to an agency’s reasonable interpretation of an ambiguous statute. In Loper Bright Enterprises v. Raimondo, the court rules 6-3 that courts may not defer to an agency interpretation of the law simply because a statute is ambiguous.
OPINION: 6-3 rating (fuck, this is really bad)
Skippy-san
Based on the post-debating commentary, if SCOTUS gives Trump full immunity, then Biden should go nuts on Trump. Place him against a wall on 5th Ave. He has nothing to lose, right?
Seriously, though, if Trump returns to the White House, real resistance will need to be considered. It cannot be the limp “resistance” of 2017 with pink hats. The courts will not save us. People like Kevin Roberts will destroy the Federal Government, and ideas like posse comitatus will be thrown in the trash heap. The police will go wild, arresting people.
I really think too many Americans are ignorant of what a 2nd Trump term means, with people like Miller, Roberts, and Leo pulling the strings.
If you believe next year will be business as usual with the evil bastards he will place in power, you are to be pitied. He will destroy this country.
Welcome to 1932.
Starfish
How much gratuity do I have to give one of these dodos after they rule that the former president does not have presidential immunity?
TBone
@Starfish: wait for Chevron before deciding how much to tip.
WaterGirl
@Starfish: Laughing through the tears!
TBone
While we’re waiting 🎶
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=X_-q9xeOgG4
dnfre
Since this is also an open thread, I’m sharing the electoral-vote commentary on the debate. They write their impressions and observations before comparing to other responses. And they also made the statement to each other that either of them could have done better than Joe without preparing, which is the same statement I made to my husband—that he (at nearly Biden’s age) could have done better. They even make the same comment I made about Biden’s resting facial expression. It made him look dim-witted.
They also summarize responses from other sources. I never anticipated the debate could go that poorly for Biden.
https://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2024/Items/Jun28-1.html
hrprogressive
@Skippy-san:
While I personally find it hard to believe even this court would grant Convicted Felon Donald Trump “full immunity”, because I think it would likely extend to Biden or any other POTUS…
I think you’re absolutely right in the sense that people should be considering, *now* what a hypothetical “Day After” would look like if the unthinkable happens.
“Resistance Twitter” was reasonably useless during his first term, and would be even more useless in a second.
If people aren’t already thinking about what steps they would be willing, and need, to take to stop the Trump Reich, they aren’t being serious about the peril we’re in.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@TBone: Can I offer to tip the Sinister Six two Ningi apiece?
TBone
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: I’m not gonna give ’em the tip, I’m gonna give ’em the whole damn thing.
The WHAT FOR!
Here’s a tip:
Never pet a burning dog.
But I like your suggestion I meant to say.
Mousebumples
TBone
@Mousebumples: homeless encampments a la Hoovervilles
Much better to round us up. Just ask George Takei.
E.
I really worry about the unhoused population in a second Trump term. I believe they will be the Guinea pigs in the experiment of how far we can strip rights from human beings in the U.S. The Grants Pass case sets the stage for new internment camps.
Bruce K in ATH-GR
@TBone: So basically people who don’t have anywhere to sleep are supposed to cease to exist? No wonder it was the Sinister Six with the three actual Justices in dissent.
Mousebumples
@TBone: yup.
TBone
Tell me you have never lived without running water and electricity without saying you have never lived like a Colonial American.
TBone
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: 👍
My experience at the Colonial Plantation might come in handy. Kitchen wench.
hrprogressive
The Fascist SCOTUS appearing to essentially criminalize “being homeless” even further than it already is seems unsurprising, given how the number of unhoused is likely to skyrocket if a Trump Reich occurs.
dnfree
Sorry, duplicate.
Mousebumples
Random – anyone know if Alito has been at the Court these past few days?
Shalimar
@Mousebumples: A nice “I respectfully say fuck you to my 6 sociopathic asshole colleagues” would be great once in awhile.
Skippy-san
Gorsuch is worthless scum.
TBone
@dnfree:
1. Find a personal space. (Not here.)
2. Find a dildo-shaped object.
3. Go fuck yourself with it.
Oops, I see you amended your comment. Please proceed accordingly.
Shalimar
@Mousebumples: Maybe Mrs. Alito wrapped him in a flag and buried him in the backyard?
Nelle
Iowa Supreme Court (Kim Reynold’s court) rules that 6 week abortion ban may take effect. 4-3.
https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/news/politics/2024/06/28/iowa-supreme-court-clears-way-for-6-week-fetal-heartbeat-abortion-ban-womens-rights/74169072007/
Mousebumples
@Shalimar: we can dream.
@Nelle: I miss the Iowa SC that legalized gay marriage. 😢
Old Man Shadow
So where are homeless people supposed to go?
There are no Federally funded mental hospitals any longer.
There aren’t enough beds in shelters and the religious shelters that do exist may deny LGBTQ people or require non-religious people to participate in religion to stay.
Rehab is expensive, requires willing participants, and there aren’t enough support workers for when they leave.
So where are the homeless supposed to go? Where are they supposed to get the help they need?
WaterGirl
@Shalimar:
That’s pretty much how I read what she wrote in her dissent on this one.
dnfree
@TBone: I believe in speaking respectfully to my fellow “jackals”. Most people here are sincere and tolerate other viewpoints. I have supported Joe Biden. I think he’s been an excellent president. It’s possible to think that and at the same time to believe he did serious damage to his cause last night.
Edited to add that the duplicate was because my first comment had a letter missing from my nym. I hope you will read and consider the post I shared. Telling me to fuck myself doesn’t make the problem disappear.
hrprogressive
@Old Man Shadow:
Incarcerated, or in the morgue/ground, for the unthinkable crime of Not Being Born Wealthy.
JML
@Bruce K in ATH-GR: I think the 8th amendment argument is tough one for a case like this. Not saying I’m ok with the result or the attempts to outlaw homelessness, but from a legal standpoint I can see how this one landed.
E.
@Old Man Shadow: That will be answered in the next term.
JPL
just fuck with this court
Dagaetch
Chevron is overruled.
TBone
@dnfree: our cause is to persist. No matter what. I tacked a disclaimer on at the end of my swipe at you, similar to a Pennsylvania fake elector. Please pardon my mood disorder.
Quinerly
@dnfree: without a doubt.
Starfish
@dnfre:
I think that is making the mistake that dudes make when they guess how many five year olds they can take in a fight or if they would win in a fight between themselves and a bear.
A lot of us did not watch the debate because we are that turned off by Trump’s voice. Standing on stage? Having that aggressive voice just lying and not answering the question? I don’t think we could have done it.
Mousebumples
Oy
Sounds like Roberts wrote the decision.
ArchTeryx
@TBone: Chevron is the Big One, despite being the least known and least understood. It doesn’t have any hot button words or Kulturkampf issues associated with it.
But if they rule the way they are expected to and overturn Chevron, that’s pretty much the end of our republican form of government. A government full of agencies that aren’t allowed to regulate any more is a government in name only. Everything devolves to the states. Anything that’s not explicitly codified in law will immediately be rendered null and void, and the Sinister Six are working to get rid of the laws, too.
We go from the United States to the Holy Roman Empire. Trump won’t even need to win the election if Chevron falls. Our entire form of government depends on it. If I were Biden, they overrule Chevron I’d instruct the federal government to just ignore the ruling. THAT is his Andrew Jackson moment.
ETA: Chevron is overruled. Now is the time for total resistance. It’s that, or we lose the country, period.
TBone
@Dagaetch:
I’m tempted to drive down to D.C. today
JPL
Folks we have to win.
JWR
Looking on the “bright” side, maybe this will force more municipalities to do more to provide for the General Welfare of their citizens, because this SCOTUS seems not to care much for that part of the Preamble.
TBone
@ArchTeryx: as my comment at #3 was meant to demonstrate.
I’m feeling very rebellious right now. Uppity, in fact.
Old Man Shadow
@dnfre: I think everyone needs to log off, stay away from the news, take a few days, spend time with their pets, go see a movie, take a wine tour, go to a ballgame, visit a steakhouse, and just relax for a moment.
Then come back, refreshed and get back to work. We’re four months away. Let’s not embrace defeat before it happens.
rikyrah
@Nelle:
Sad for Iowa, but, at least they can come to Illinois.
hrprogressive
@ArchTeryx:
What’s your definition of “Total Resistance”, and how do you implement it?
JML
well, gutting Chevron is going to create one hell of a mess. Especially with an utterly incompetent GOP House than can’t write legislation to save its ass.
Project 2025 kicked off a little early. step one to dismantling the supposed Deep State is ending Chevron deference.
Jebus, this is going to be a mess.
ArchTeryx
@TBone: When it comes to Chevron there’s nothing any of us can do. Congress isn’t going to replace tens of thousand of regulations with laws even if we had a friendly Congress, which we don’t.
It’s up to the Executive Branch now. Either they let the Supreme Court render them a toothless tiger, or they rebel and ignore their edicts. It’s down to that.
Harrison Wesley
@Old Man Shadow: Soylent Green, baby! Solve the homeless problem and make a buck, too!
RaflW
Chevron goes down in flames, 6-3.
And of course the political body we call a Court times the release of this for the day after the debate so that the Republican who appointed 3 of these 6 sh*ts could not even attempt to be held accountable last night.
rikyrah
@Old Man Shadow:
to jail. someone’s gotta keep those private prisons full
ArchTeryx
@hrprogressive: Definition of Total Resistance is the Executive Branch ignoring the ruling and declaring the Supreme Court to be out of control. Call their bluff. It’s that, or let the entire Executive Branch wither away into nothing but a paper tiger.
TBone
@rikyrah: private, for-profit, prisons paying slave wages.
hrprogressive
@ArchTeryx:
You’re expecting way too much from this, or any, modern Democratically-Controlled Executive Branches.
Any “Resistance” is gonna have to come from Citizens.
Not holding my breath tbh.
TBone
@ArchTeryx: I’m on your team. Where’s my
musket, oops, bumpstock grenade launcher?bbleh
@ArchTeryx: yeah this is the one the Corporatists have been jonesing for — Roberts probably had the time of his life writing the opinion. It’s also, btw, a major judicial power-grab, since they know perfectly well that Congress — especially this Congress — can’t possibly fulfill the role they imagine, which means everything will fall to the courts, and that no doubt is music to the ears of the Reactionaries and to Kavanaugh the Lightweight.
I’ll bet the markets go nuts. There is now nobody guarding the henhouse.
dnfree
@Old Man Shadow: I’m trying to remain calm, but as the electoral-vote people note, lesser events have derailed campaigns before—Howard Dean’s “scream”, Dukakis in the tank. The difference with Trump all along has been that nothing derails him. Mocking a handicapped reporter should have. The pussy tape should have. His lies should have. It’s not fair, but all the groundwork claiming Biden is senile bore fruit last night, even though Trump still lied.
TrainedWreck
@TBone:
😂💯💗🇺🇸💪💗
TBone
@dnfree: I’m really straining to remain polite right now. You’re close to pushing me in the opposite direction again.
You’re obeying in advance.
Focus.
zhena gogolia
@dnfree: Trump lost in 2020.
Omnes Omnibus
Not a good morning at the Court. Not a surprising one though.
TrainedWreck
@dnfree: 90 minutes in June does not even blip compared 4 years Epic Presidenting 💯💗🇺🇸💪
Nelle
@rikyrah: If they can afford to get there, have childcare for existing children covered, can take the time off of work, etc. Minnesota offers options, too. So, at least, not Florida.
I told my husband to go buy a plane so he can fly people out of state. It would be our non-deductible charity. Alas, he has had to undergo retinal surgery and cannot vary his elevation by more than 1000 feet from the place he had the surgery.
ArchTeryx
@bbleh: Oh it absolutely is a major judicial power grab, because it effectively writes the Executive Branch out of the government. The whole point of Chevron is that making the laws fell to Congress. Executing the laws fell to the Executive Branch. Interpreting the laws fell to the judiciary. With Chevron gone, now Congress has the entire job of making and executing laws, the Executive Branch can’t do anything, and all law enforcement comes from the courts. It’s a massive power grab away from the Executive Branch, and while they needed to be knocked down a peg or two from the Imperial Presidency, rendering them completely powerless massively violates the separation of powers.
JWR
From SCOTUSblog:
Expand the damn court!
Fight for 15!
Mousebumples
(above are 2 skeets, with images of her dissent)
Mousebumples
At least 1 more opinion to come, apparently by Roberts or per curiam… And now I’m off to define that Latin…
dnfree
@TBone: I’m not “obeying in advance”. I’m considering at what point the battle plan needs to be changed and how. The average voter is not as dialed in as you or me.
Leto
So punishing the homeless, and letting business just run absolutely uncheck. Can we now officially declare this the Gilded Age 2.0? And I hope that all the worthless fucks from 2016, who tsk tsk’d us over the Courts, find that perfect rusty farm implement to self pleasure themselves.
bbleh
@ArchTeryx: in one way it’s unsurprising: nature abhors a vacuum, and a completely paralyzed Congress is leaving a huge one. And there’s always Corporatists on the court. But the Reactionaries and Nitwit Kavanaugh are unusually prone to believing themselves omnipotent. Alas, bad timing…
jimmiraybob
@Old Man Shadow: “So where are the homeless supposed to go?”
It is a Trump pledge to roundup migrants without citizenship.
The numbers that I hear from the Trump MAGA Party range from 11,000,000 to 20,000,000.
There will be camps for processing and temporary storage.
After the “illegals” are deported there will be plenty of space available for storage of the homeless “illegals” and assorted other deviants and degenerates. For some reason this seems so familiar.
E.
@dnfree: If you can’t shut up will you at least use the other thread.
Juju.
@Omnes Omnibus: Well then. There you have it with Chevron. Boom!!!
hrprogressive
@dnfree:
Just answer me and the rest of the blog this:
Even if you really think “Biden’s Gotta Go”
In what universe does that portray anything other than abject weakness, give all the Fascists an opening to crow about how Dems can’t be trusted, and a chance for all those blessedly “undecided” voters to decide the Democratic Party doesn’t have its shit together if they are swapping out The Sitting President as their nominee for Anyone Else, and thus, why should they vote for the Anyone Else?
I’ve yet to hear a good answer to how such a presto-chango would be “good” for the Party, this late in the game.
Skippy-san
I don’t want to hear anyone talking about “the Justices should have privacy”. BS.
These people are evil, and SOMETHING has to be done to make them understand that.
raven
@Skippy-san: Don’t let your mouth write a check your ass can’t cash.
JPL
OMG The repercussions of today’s rulings will forever damage our society. I fear for my 2year old and 5 year old grandimps future.
just fkfkfkfkfkfkfkfkkfkfkfkffkkffk
TBone
@Skippy-san: 💙❤️💙
hrprogressive
@Skippy-san:
They already know they are evil, and do not care. The evil is the point.
Mousebumples
If I had to find a silver lining to this shitshow, it’ll hopefully shove debate analysis from the news cycle. Likely by design, in case Trump had a bad debate last night.
ArchTeryx
@bbleh: In this case the problem isn’t the vacuum where there was once a Congress. Chevron overruling takes advantage of that fact, just like overturning Roe and so many other laws by this court. But this was the Big One. this was every single regulation that every federal agency has ever come up with to enforce a law. Unless they outright rebel and ignore the Court, the civil servants running these agencies may as well pack up and go home. The Sinster Six just put them all out of a job.
They fired the entire kennel, and now the foxes are free to completely empty out the henhouse. That’s what the end of Chevron means.
E.
@Omnes Omnibus: I feel like a fool but I thought Robert’s would find a way to save Chevron.
JPL
now several January 6th rioters can walk free.
Mousebumples
TBone
JFC January 6
I’m gonna go take a sedative before I fire up hubby’s huge Silverado and drive it on down there.
Kristine
I know some folks don’t care for Lawrence O’Donnell, but this from February addresses so much of what has been discussed.
Now I believe I will stay offline for the weekend. Maybe longer.
JWR
Screw these arseholes. From SCOTUSblog:
JPL
@Kristine: I have PBS Passport and that my be my lifesaver. For five dollars a month I can watch old shows. I finished the first season of Endeavor already and there are nine seasons. Although I had seen some episodes, I was just and occasional viewer of the show.
JPL
@JWR: They no longer have to give trump full immunity because obstruction is no longer on the table.
bbleh
@JPL: not quite. case is only remade to determine whether it can proceed, and I can see a reasonable opinion that yeah, by physically entering the building, besieging legislative chambers, and blocking the flow of people, it can reasonably be inferred that they intended to impede access to records documents objects or other things.
It seems like a gratuitous nitpick — they chose a word and said the entire scope of the law depends on the precise definition of that word. But it was the outcome they obviously wanted, and that was the excuse.
Quinerly
@JWR: I am trying to catch up. KBJ went with the majority?????
Mousebumples
Lawyer question – could a hypothetical future Court overturn an overturn? Eg., let’s reconsider and decide Chevron is all good, and Roe, and …
Mousebumples
@Quinerly: yeah, Idk more than that.
Geminid
Iranians are voting for a new President today to replace the one who flew into a mountain last month. Polls close in less than two hours. The result is unlikely to be very consequential and many Iranians will not vote.
France’s election could be very consequential. The first round is this Sunday, June 30 and all 577 national assembly seats will be at stake. Most will be decided in a runoff July 7.
In the meantime, Great Britain will hold its Parliamentary election on July 4.
WaterGirl
@JWR: I only see 3 on SCOTUSblog. ??
schrodingers_cat
Hey but don’t you know that Joe Biden is old and his running mate is a black woman with immigrant heritage?
RaflW
@ArchTeryx: I am really, really not enjoying America turning into Argentina.
BF and I went there maybe 10 years ago. We’d joke about “Oh, the melancholy” as we’d see busted sidewalks, vacant storefronts, and of course markers to the horrors of the disappeared and other past autocracy horrors.
But we could also see that Buenos Aeries reflected a more prosperous and more successful past. The pervasive feeling of ‘the better days are behind us’ was disturbing.
Even London in the 80s, a time when the UK was experiencing the economic malaise of lost empire didn’t feel as dour as B.A. Partly because England didn’t really move towards naked corruption the way I think the US is (well, one significant chunk of the US polity has).
Dagaetch
@WaterGirl: Chevron was technically two separate cases.
JPL
@Mousebumples: This court overturned rulings from previous courts so why not.
TBone
I need me some Sheldon Whithouse RIGHT NOW.
Lisa Rubin is great, but Senator Whitehouse is who I need to see. And Jamie Raskin, et al.
Thank GAWD I don’t have human children.
RaflW
@Geminid: I am not hopeful for the French, based on what Bolts founder Daniel Nichanian says on Bsky.
JPL
@bbleh: I just saw this on Mastodon, from Cheney I assume that means Liz
This ruling may dramatically impact the 350-plus cases of obstrcution against Jan. 6 defendants but have relatively little effect on the obstruction charges against Donald Trump. The court held that the statute in question must include manipulation of physical documents.
bbleh
@ArchTeryx: yup. And they will.
I suppose Congress can come up with some sort of boilerplate fix, like adding language to every bill, or actually passing a law, codifying the principle in Chevron. But of course, ditto Roe, which we know ain’t gonna happen, and then there’s always the possibility that the Court would say “nah that language / law is unconstitutional cuz you’re not allowed to delegate that responsibility, something something separation of power” (and oh the irony in that).
It’s Reactionary Day at the Court. Whee!
StringOnAStick
The fire that forced evacuations in the town South of us here in Bend apparently started at a homeless camp, which has been a huge fear in this dry area with lots of USFS land that has lots of this happening, and no doubt is why mostly R Grants Pass filed this suit in the first place. Campfire bans mostly work in designated campgrounds because there is some patrolling happening, but people losing their homes due to this stuff are not positively disposed towards homeless campers and I fear it will get much worse.
JPL
@Geminid: I subscribe to the washington post world view newsletter and the opinion is that the right will win enough seats to take control.
ArchTeryx
@RaflW: Welcome to the judicial autocracy. Which the Republicans have a virtual lock on at this point for a generation.
It’s as has been said in liberal circles: Nothing you care about will survive a fascist Supreme Court for a generation. Nothing. They won’t turn us into Argentina. They’re going to turn us into the Holy Roman Empire, a bunch of disconnected little states all running things the way of their choosing.
Chris
@hrprogressive:
Yep. This is and remains the final word on all the “Biden should step down” thing. The only thing stepping down would accomplish is to instantly make everything an order of magnitude harder for the party.
(The Village knows this. It’s why they’ve been rooting for it to happen ever since early in the 2020 cycle).
ArchTeryx
@bbleh: That’s exactly what is being discussed on Lawyers, Guns and Money. Normally their doomerism is tiring, but a lot of them are lawyers and they know exactly what the end of Chevron means. It’s a massive violation of the separation of powers.
TBone
Goddamnit Rumpy neighbor revving his gas powered weedwhacker like some kind of race car at the starting line.
I’m going to the liquor store. And then the local fireworks outlet.
prostratedragon
@ArchTeryx: What recourse would the Executive have? Couldn’t rule violators just take them to court and cite this ruling?
Soprano2
I hate to say it, but this court was always going to allow cities to regulate whether or not people could pitch tents in public spaces and on sidewalks. The other side of this is that other citizens have the right to use these spaces, too. I certainly don’t have any solutions to the problem of homelessness (evidently no one else does either), but allowing city parks and sidewalks to turn into homeless encampments without allowing cities to do anything about it isn’t an answer to the problem.
I know this is not a popular opinion around here, but I look at it also from the point of a business owner who would be pretty upset if a bunch of homeless people decided to put up an encampment right outside my business and there was nothing the city could do about it. I know of one restaurant here that I think was run out of business because a lot of homeless people hung around at the gas station next door; I think it ran a lot of their customers off. Of course, it didn’t help that their landlord wouldn’t replace any of the bulbs in the parking lot lights!
Chris
@RaflW:
I’m voting Saturday, for whatever that’s worth. Still trying to calculate whether it’s better to just vote for the Popular Front (i.e. the left coalition), which I agree more with anyway and looks likelier to make it to the second round, or vote for the Macronists in the hopes of averting the shit-show that is a divided government with three years of left and center sniping at each other that can only benefit the fascists.
JWR
@Quinerly: I went back to see if it was 5-3, but no, it was the full court, so apparently yes, Jackson went with the monsters. Hmm, I wonder why?
Jackie
@Old Man Shadow: Thank you. I agree. It’s time to step back, exhale, then roll up our sleeves and get back to work keeping TCFG out of the WH, keep the senate Blue and retake the House.
JaySinWA
Looks like Monday is the next and last decision day per SCOTUS blog.
Cacti
You’re not wrong. Letting public parks be used as permanent homeless encampments only had the effect of making normies resent the homeless.
Soprano2
@Cacti: I don’t know what the answer is to where are the homeless supposed to go, but as a business owner I know I don’t want the answer to be on the sidewalk right outside my door. If that’s mean and selfish, so be it, but it’s the truth. How many of you would want homeless people camping on the sidewalk right outside your house, or in the park across the street from you?
ArchTeryx
@prostratedragon: Enforce the regulations that were in place pre-Chevron, at the very least. And ignore any orders to suspend them, Chevron or not. Sometimes you have to fight fire with fire. Andrew Jackson did it and the country survived. Now it’s Biden’s turn. He may not be the man for the moment, but he’s just been forced into it if he wants any of the regulations – many of which have been written in the blood of innocents – to survive.
NotMax
@JPL
Quick note that eight seasons are also available on Prime.
Omnes Omnibus
@Soprano2: I want policies that ameliorate homelessness and eliminate its causes, but until we get that I don’t want us to criminalize the unhoused. FWIW I used to live in a place across the street from a park where a number of unhoused people lived during the summer. Neither my ex nor I ever had any problems with them. They kept their areas clean and didn’t do anything to bother anyone.
Omnes Omnibus
@prostratedragon: This ruling didn’t eliminate regulations. It ended the doctrine that “[w]hen there is ambiguity as to the meaning of an administrative regulation, the administrative agency’s reasonable interpretation controls.” It is going to cause a rush to the courts.
TBone
@ArchTeryx:
🎯
TBone
@Omnes Omnibus: thank you. Housing works too.
https://www.cbc.ca/radio/sunday/the-sunday-edition-for-january-26-2020-1.5429251/housing-is-a-human-right-how-finland-is-eradicating-homelessness-1.5437402
JWR
@JPL:
Not sure about that. SCOTUSblog wrote that:
Which doesn’t seem to imply physical manipulation.
cmorenc
@Skippy-san:
He is his mother Anne’s son.
Anne Gorsuch was the worst-ever Head of the EPA (Reagan Admin), until Scott Pruitt came along under Trump.
lowtechcyclist
@ArchTeryx:
That doesn’t work. The Executive Branch relies on the courts to enforce the laws and regulations on corporations and other private entities that violate them. Absent that, Biden would have to use the military to enforce its agencies’ rulings that the Federal courts no longer recognized. And that’s right out.
If I may ask, how did things work before Chevron?
trollhattan
Those who are about to fry, salute you.
Christ on a flaming bespoke cracker, it’s gonna get hot.
Saturday
Sunny and hot, with a high near 97. Southwest wind 3 to 6 mph.
Saturday Night
Clear, with a low around 65. South wind 5 to 8 mph.
Sunday
Sunny and hot, with a high near 98. Calm wind becoming west around 6 mph in the afternoon.
Sunday Night
Clear, with a low around 66.
Monday
Sunny and hot, with a high near 104.
Monday Night
Clear, with a low around 70.
Tuesday
Sunny and hot, with a high near 108.
Tuesday Night
Clear, with a low around 69.
Wednesday
Sunny and hot, with a high near 107.
Wednesday Night
Clear, with a low around 68.
Independence Day
Sunny and hot, with a high near 109.
Omnes Omnibus
@Omnes Omnibus: Also, it occurs to me that overruling Chevron means the courts are going to be busier. We are going to need more judges. And, if we are doing that, it would just make sense to have one Sup Ct Justice per circuit.
Captain C
@bbleh:
Perhaps just a law stating a) Chevron is the law of the land, and b) this is not reviewable (and if the Captain were Supreme High Galootie or suchlike, c) any justice who tries messing with this will be instantly removed and sold to the highest bidding pro football team for use as a tackling dummy; yet another reason to never put the Captain in a position of real power).
In the absence of c), any court who tries to overrule this is subject to the Andrew Jackson treatment.
Captain C
@ArchTeryx:
But remember, pointing out that the courts are an important consideration in elections is unconscionable blackmail. At least according to people determined not to do the right thing.
RaflW
This is a fantastic suggestion.
“@pwnallthethings.bsky.social
You know what, Biden should go on TV and say ‘if the Court is going to be reviewing so many administrative regulations, it’s going to need to be a whole lot larger. Going to need *puts finger in the air* idk, 5 or 6 justices’
Or, what @Omnes Omnibus said.
(Note to OO: Maybe a sample of rhubarb custard cake could make its way to Madison some other time. Because, really, if we’re gonna go down the path of rogue courts, let’s at lest have tasty baked goods on hand.)
Geminid
@JPL: France’s right wing may win control of the national assembly but under the Fifth Republic’s “strong President” system, Macron will still have a lot of power.
prostratedragon
@Omnes Omnibus: So courts are free to look … elsewhere in those cases. But if, say, the EPA wanted to use a technical interpretation of an environmental thing but the court ruled for something more permissive, then EPA would have nothing to fall back on if they tried to “rebel.”
trollhattan
@cmorenc: Can’t be repeated too often; plus, must add James Watt at Interior. If anything, she makes an excellent predictor of how the entire Trump administration functioned.
Reagan was as bad, and as damaging to the nation as Trump and had two terms to wreck his brand of anti-government havoc.
prostratedragon
@RaflW: Seems reasonable to have one Justice per Circuit. And one does hear sometimes that there need to be more Circuits to deal effectively with case volume.
wenchacha
A sincere Fuck You to any Dems who go on the airwaves to bleat about their misery and sorrow over Biden’s bad night. This isn’t about you, Van White or Claire McCaskill.
Go ahead and have your doubts off-mic, away from reporters. Asswipes.
lowtechcyclist
@ArchTeryx:
OK, you’ve lost me. That seems to be exactly where today’s decision leaves things. It says that if a law is ambiguous, interpreting the law is up to the judiciary, not to the Executive agencies.
AIUI, Chevron basically said the Executive agencies that execute the laws are better at making sense of ambiguous laws in their bailiwick than the judiciary would be, and so their interpretation of the ambiguity should be deferred to.
Feel free to correct me here.
Cacti
That may be your experience, but it’s not a universal one, or arguably even a typical one.
The places saying that they were being hamstrung by the Ninth Circuit ruling were liberal places on the west coast, who do try to help the homeless population, but who saw unchecked growth of homeless encampments leading to health and safety issues for the general public, and for the campers themselves.
Soprano2
@Omnes Omnibus: I don’t want to criminalize the homeless either, but cities have to be able to do some things to regulate them. When I read about people camping on the sidewalks in cities the first thing I wonder about is what about the businesses that front on that sidewalk? How are they affected? What about the people who live in those buildings, how are they affected? I know that homeless people mostly aren’t violent, but having large groups of them in an area can cause problems, and cities need to be able to do something about that too. If homeless people occupy a city park, that makes it harder for everyone else to use that park, and sadly a lot of people will avoid it completely . We need better programs and more money to help these people, but allowing them to camp on every inch of public space is not a solution.
E.
@Soprano2: We live in a culture that creates homelessness. Homeless people are a product of the system that we take profitable part in. It is our responsibility to solve this problem, and pushing it out of view is not an example of a solution. It is an obstacle to one.
ArchTeryx
@lowtechcyclist: When Chevron was in force, Congress made the laws. The Executive branch created regulations to provide enforcement mechanisms and clarify what the laws covered. especially when they statutes were ambiguous or Congress lacked the expertise to create an enforcement mechanism. The courts were charged with enforcing those regulations with penalties provided for by both Congress and the Executive. Only the federal courts had the power to analyze whether federal regulations violated the Constitution or not.
Overruling Chevron cuts the Executive Branch completely, totally out of the process. Now the laws are only what Congress and the courts say they are, many of which aren’t experts at all. (Newt Gingrich got rid of all the Congressional expert consultants in Clinton’s first term).
The reason Chevron was put into place in the first place was to prevent the courts from forcing the Executive to enforce regulations it didn’t like, or creating them. It was fundamentally reactionary, but what’s good for the goose is good for the gander; when Ds took over the Executive, they enforced those regulations and created new ones.
The Supremes basically said that a D Executive Branch isn’t allowed to do anything regulatory. At all.
dirge
I’d think that in these cases, “impaired the availability… of… other things” includes things like the Capitol building, the availability of which was quite obviously impaired by the defendants.
artem1s
@Skippy-san:
Fuck going nuts on TCFG. Go after SCOTUS who lied to Congress about Dobbs being settled law, go after Thomas for tax evasion, go after the Congresscritters and SCOTUS family members who funded, aided and abetted, and encouraged the J6 insurrectionists.
Cacti
Most of the victims of crime within encampments are the campers themselves. Vulnerable people are always a target for the criminal class and the homeless frequently find themselves victims of theft, physical assault, and sexual assault.
The health and safety issues caused by campers themselves are generally blocked public rights of way, STDs, blood borne diseases related to drug use, and infectious diseases caused by undisposed human waste. Areas adjacent to large encampments also see spikes in property crime, from desperate addicts needing funds to feed their drug habit.
It’s just a sad situation all around.
New Deal democrat
I just wanted to point out that, in the January 6 obstruction case, the Court appears to have completely abandoned “textualism,” because the text of the statute is pretty clear:
Instead Roberts to have decided based on the history of the passage of the statute.
Note that this is completely contradictory to the “textualism” relied upon in interpreting the Second Amendment, for example.
More evidence that the majority in this Court retcons an interpretative method to get to its desired intend.
Also, in response to a few comments above: yes, the Congress could retroactively reinstate Chevron by statute, especially with a section reading more or less “the Courts shall interpret this statute liberally to achieve its intended purpose.” But, as we have seen with Shelby County, entire Constitutional Amendments can be interpreted away nevertheless.
lowtechcyclist
@ArchTeryx:
What I’m hearing in this thread is that the opinion addressed the ‘statutes were ambiguous’ part but nothing has been said here about the ‘Congress lacked the expertise to create an enforcement mechanism’ part, so excuse me if I’m skeptical here.
RevRick
Since this is an open thread, and I’m not going to join in the justified outrage about the SC decisions, because I only have enough emotional energy today, I’ll share the fun we’re having at the Rev household. Wednesday, I discovered a drip from our water supply line coming into the house just before the shutoff valve. Since our HVAC was being inspected that day I asked if a plumber from the company could come out and check it out. And later that day, the plumber came, inspected it, and gave us the news that since the galvanized pipe was rusted through at the threads, the whole supply line would need to be replaced.
He then outlined the scope of the work and would arrange all the permits and notifications to the city and utilities. Yesterday, the city and gas company stopped by to mark where the gas and sewer lines were, and 7:45 this morning the first of the crew arrived to start digging the trench with a backhoe, promising to protect MrsRev’s peonies! There’s four guys doing various jobs.
My job is to keep MrsRev from freaking out. So far I’d getting five stars on Yelp. At the end of the day, I will shell out 10 grand on the credit card. We are providing vast entertainment to the four kids across the street.
Soprano2
@E.: Or, if you allow people to camp and sleep on every inch of available public space, you alienate the very people whose help you need to help them. It’s a tough, tough problem, probably one of the toughest we face as a society.
wjca
I have the sense that you and I are about as far apart, politically and philosophically, as it gets on this blog. But I gotta say, you’ve totally nailed it here. They’re totally living in a fantasy world. (Well, except the ones who are MAGAt trolls are in a different non-reality.)
Cacti
You’ve identified the problem.
The fascist 6 are strictly results oriented. If there’s a textual or other argument on which they can hang their hat, that is the preferred route. But if there isn’t, this Court isn’t above just making shit up to reach the desired outcome.
Such as when Gorsuch described a high school football coach having a revival meeting with 100 people at the 50 yard line as a “quiet personal prayer”. Sotomayor was so stunned by this that she put actual photos of the prayer meetings into her dissent, which is something that is never done. If the facts don’t fit the predetermined conclusion, they’ll just make up ones that do.
Bill Arnold
@Mousebumples:
Yeah, that “fell swoop” was eyecatching (LOPER BRIGHT ENTERPRISES v. RAIMONDO)
hrprogressive
@wjca:
Thanks, lol.
I am a Bernie/Hillary, Bernie/Biden, Biden Again voter. I’m not shy about the level of Progressivism I’d like to see, but I am also pragmatic about it.
A lot of chronically online, self-styled “socialists” or “real leftists” can’t admit that they live in a fantasy land that does not exist, and, that they have done precious little Actual Work to make happen.
People who either just assume Progress Will Happen if We Tweet Hard Enough, or are accelerationists, are not people I associate with.
But, I don’t buy into “Let’s all be bipartisan because that’s what Jimmy Smith did in 1935 or whatever” because, in my 20 years of being politically active, the GOP has done nothing but lurch towards Fascism, while a lot of the Democratic Party has ignored it.
That said – Anyone who thinks “Team Blue” would come off looking like true leadership material by dumping their sitting President with 4 months to go until Election Day…is either high, in bad faith, or a Fascist bot.
Or, Claire McKaskille.
trollhattan
@RevRick: Galvanized water supply lines are the devil’s hobby, presuming lead supply lines are his workshop.
Our ’20s home was built using them and while they look pristine on the outside decades later, inside they rust continuously with the water traveling through an ever-smaller, tortuous passageway, which ultimately closes down completely or as you’re discovering, eats through to the exterior. And Freedom!
I’m very sorry. You will love the unfettered pressure and flow from the replacements and coincidentally, discover the “sand” forever clogging the faucet screens, shower heads and appliances has been iron oxide particles shed by those pipes.
Old houses. Gotta love ’em.
Mai Naem mobile
I hope all the conservative SCOTUS justices daughters have problem pregnancies where emergency late term abortions are the only way to save their lives. Also, I hope all the SCOTUS justices have their homes or second homes in areas which are uninhabitable due to water/air pollution resulting to a huge asset loss to them which is unrecoverable in any kind of lawsuit against the polluters.
Mai Naem mobile
@cmorenc: Gorsuch will be around another 30 years unless he decides to resign in a few years to get his gratuities from all the polluters he’s helping out. Alito at least will resign or kick the bucket in a few years. Alito and Thomas are bad but Gorsuch is much more dangerous.
Fake Irishman
A shitty day indeed at the court, though pretty long expected.
However, we don’t quite know how these things will play out in practice. Most of these regulatory disputes will still have to be solved at the local level in district court, there just isn’t capacity for all to reach . Many will have original jurisdiction in the DC circuit.
And there are significantly more Democratic appointees in both the DC Circuit (7-4) (thanks to Harry Reif blowing up the filibuster) and a lot more at the district level (381-269) (thanks Joe, Chuck and, yes, even Dick).
You can run some things through the the north district of Texas and the fifth and eighth circuits, but not all of them.
I’m not saying don’t worry — I’m really worried. But to quote/paraphrase a book with a lot of orcs, “not even the wise (or Baud for that matter) can forsee all ends.”
wjca
Whereas I was a Ford, Bush 1, Dole voter. (But never, ever Reagan!) Who hasn’t voted for a Republican for President this century. So, a conservative, but not a reactionary, let alone bat-shit crazy.
I may not embrace everything progressives do, let alone want to do.** But I care more about my country than policy details. Long long ago, I took an oath to “defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic.” That oath didn’t come with an expiration date.
** I still don’t understand why more progressives haven’t gotten behind a 90%+ income tax rate for all income (from whatever source, not exceptions, no deductions) above, say, $1 million per year. Perhaps because it’s a conservative solution (i.e. a tweak to existing law) to solve a real problem? ;-)
OGLiberal
@E.: Roberts always come through for the corporate overlords. He wrote the opinion, for crikey’s sake. My friend has a theory that they use stuff like abortion to divert attention away from evil stuff like this or gutting voting rights. Who the eff even knows what Chevron is? Heck, I didn’t know until today and I pay attention.
“Fisherman” brought the case, backed by wingnut thinktanks. My guess is that these “fisherman” were multi-millionaires. Or, if not, they are the heralded “small businessmen”, most of whom are terrible, selfish, cheating assholes and who make way more money than they whine about.
Chief Oshkosh
@Old Man Shadow:
A solution, at least in the “off season,” is that they squat in 2nd and 3rd homes of the Slimy Six and their fellow travelers.
E.
@OGLiberal: I used to think Roberts would understand that Chevron is very, very good for business, and get that view to prevail. Getting rid of Chevron will only accelerate monopoly capitalism.
TBone
WQSU college radio is deep in mourning with me today
🎶 ❤️🩹
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kSHhAkVreiw
Chief Oshkosh
@dnfree: Here’s the best commentary I’ve seen on this so far:
https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2024/6/28/2249310/-The-Hard-Honest-Truth-About-the-Debate-That-All-Liberals-Need-To-Hear?pm_campaign=front_page&pm_source=trending&pm_medium=web
bbleh
@Chief Oshkosh: concur with everything there, and especially “calm the fk down and get back to doing what we all know we need to be doing.”
About the only thing I think is missing — which is sort of alluded to regarding Dem freakout but only as to that — is the effect of subsequent media coverage. A lot of low-info and “undecided” potential voters DON’T watch these events, but they DO eventually see / hear media reports, at least secondhand, and in this case, contra the SOTU, they are universally awful. The media have a Narrative and they are sticking with it, and THAT — more than the debate itself — may have a material effect.
None of which means, of course, that we shouldn’t calm the fk down and get back to doing what we all know we need to be doing.
Chris Johnson
@Omnes Omnibus: I like the way you think, very much :)
Skippy-san
@artem1s: You will get no disagreement from me. These judges think they have no obligation to the people (except the ones who pay their bribes).
davek319
@E.: If any body still believes they wouldn’t dare, just recall NYC’s bankruptcy in 1975–the first ever American big city refused government’s assistance in a crisis. Rioting was expected to be fierce and immediate in response to the Ford Administration’s “Drop dead!”. What actually happened, as we all can recall, was… nothing. Test case. Same with Bush V Gore. The Conventional Wisdom was, “Suck it up, buttercup.”
TBone
@Soprano2: that’s what golf courses are for. Every fukn inch of them.
TBone
Good Chevron analysis:
https://digbysblog.net/2024/06/28/this-shitty-day-just-got-shittier/
AnthroBabe
@Old Man Shadow: I agree wholeheartedly… didn’t watch the debate as it was too difficult (I’m usually the one who plays debate bingo with hard liquor) and this week was personally hard. Enough! Am now petting the cat and taking a fucking nap. We fight rested tomorrow!