Come for the politics, stay for the snark.

America is going up in flames. The NYTimes fawns over MAGA celebrities. No longer a real newspaper.

They are lying in pursuit of an agenda.

Too often we hand the biggest microphones to the cynics and the critics who delight in declaring failure.

You don’t get to peddle hatred on saturday and offer condolences on sunday.

Is trump is trying to break black America over his knee? signs point to ‘yes’.

New McCarthy, same old McCarthyism.

Bark louder, little dog.

Many life forms that would benefit from greater intelligence, sadly, do not have it.

The only way through is to slog through the muck one step at at time.

You passed on an opportunity to be offended? What are you even doing here?

Anne Laurie is a fucking hero in so many ways. ~ Betty Cracker

“Can i answer the question? No you can not!”

The republican caucus is covering themselves with something, and it is not glory.

People identifying as christian while ignoring christ and his teachings is a strange thing indeed.

Their freedom requires your slavery.

Incompetence, fear, or corruption? why not all three?

Everybody saw this coming.

So fucking stupid, and still doing a tremendous amount of damage.

If a good thing happens for a bad reason, it’s still a good thing.

A sufficient plurality of insane, greedy people can tank any democratic system ever devised, apparently.

if you can’t see it, then you are useless in the fight to stop it.

Never give a known liar the benefit of the doubt.

Impressively dumb. Congratulations.

Historically it was a little unusual for the president to be an incoherent babbling moron.

You are here: Home / Open Threads / Tuesday Night Open Thread

Tuesday Night Open Thread

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Our racist in chief decided while deploying the military to non-white neighborhoods to raise hell he would also roll back the Biden renaming of confederate forts:

President Trump announced on Tuesday that he will restore the original names of seven military bases honoring Confederate officers.

Why it matters: The move reverses a renaming that began under former President Biden, efforts that sought to honor military figures of color and to cease the government’s commemoration of pro-slavery figures.

Driving the news: Trump made the announcement during a visit to North Carolina’s Fort Bragg.

“We are also going to be restoring the names to Fort Pickett, Fort Hood, Fort Gordon, Fort Rucker, Fort Polk, Fort A.P. Hill and Fort Robert E. Lee,” he said. “We won a lot of battles out of those forts. It’s no time to change. And I’m superstitious, you know? I like to keep it going.”

First off, what the fuck is this “we” shit, Private Bone Spurs? You got a fucking mouse in your pocket?

Second, there is no reason for this other than racism. The end.

***

Keeping up on the worst people on the planet:

Southern Baptists voted overwhelmingly on Tuesday to call for the overturning of the Supreme Court ruling that legalized same-sex marriage, with strategists citing the successful effort that overturned the right to legal abortions as a possible blueprint for the new fight.

The denomination has long opposed gay marriage, but Tuesday was the first time its members have voted to work to legally end it. Expanding on conservatives’ success in overturning Roe v. Wade in 2022, the vote signals growing evangelical ambitions to overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, the Supreme Court ruling that was handed down 10 years ago this month.

They’re just getting started, y’all.

***

I have an apple, a nice hunk of stinky cheese, and I am going to go watch the series finale of Andor. I will report back.

Reader Interactions

144Comments

  1. 1.

    Another Scott

    Enjoy!

    I just came across this reminder that – as always – every election matters. VirginiaMercury.com:

    Senate Democrats rejected several appointees to Virginia’s governing boards at various colleges on Monday, including former Virginia Attorney General Kenneth Cuccinelli and former state commerce and trade secretary Caren Merrick.

    The Monday vote by the Senate Privileges and Elections Committee removed all eight appointees made by Gov. Glenn Youngkin. The move, which Democratic leaders attributed to differences in political values, now puts the decision to find replacements in the governor’s hands once again.

    “The work and the oversight that we have and as chairman of this committee is to provide accountability and oversight to our prestigious institutions to ensure that those bodies align with our values and what we see in the political climate today, especially coming out of Washington, trying to make their way into our commonwealth,” said Senate Privileges and Elections Committee Chair Aaron Rouse, D-Virginia Beach. “It is our job to stand up and protect those values, and that is what we are doing today.”

    In a statement after the meeting, Rouse referred to Cuccinelli and the other seven appointees as “MAGA extremists” and “Project 2025 supporters,” who are opposed to Democrats’ progressive ideals.

    […]

    Good, good.

    The monsters will never give up. Cooch will never go away.

    We have to work to defeat them to keep them out of power. Every election matters, every time, because the monsters will try their best to bend or break any system to their will. It’s what they do.

    Eyes on the prizes.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  2. 2.

    VFX Lurker

    I have an apple, a nice hunk of stinky cheese, and I am going to go watch the series finale of Andor. I will report back.

    Everything is horrible, but I hope you might share the variety of apple and the type of cheese. I’m always on the lookout for good fruit and cheese pairings.

    I’m halfway through Season Two of Andor, and it is as wonderful as it is expensive. Superb production values on that great show.

    I need to follow H.E. Wolf’s example and write postcards again. I always feel better after I write them.

  6. 6.

    Ryan

    Is anyone here calling it the “Gulf of America?”  We don’t have to call it “Fort Bragg” either.

  7. 7.

    suzanne

    I am in Chicago ATM, and I got a message from a neighborhood group I’m in that ICE has showed up in my neighborhood and is looking for undocumented people this afternoon. My area has a small-but-growing Latino community, mostly Mexican. I am trying to get more details. I’m so worried.

  9. 9.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Not sure if this has been posted, but totally nuts (gift link to WaPo article at the bottom):

    John Hudson @John_Hudson

    NEW: The Trump admin has plans to send thousands of foreigners to Guantanamo beginning as early as this week, including citizens of close allies UK & France, with no intention of notifying their home governments in advance, per sources and documents

    The preparations include medical screenings for 9,000 people to determine if they are healthy enough to be sent to the controversial base in the Caribbean. DHS intends to minimize the amount of time detainees are in Gitmo but the WH could decide to use it for longterm detention

    The Trump administration says the plan is necessary due to a need to free up capacity at domestic detention facilities which have been flooded with new detainees. A US doc says “GTMO is not at capacity” (tho it has been plagued by capacity issues in the past). Props to @Politico for pubbing the scoop first.

    Trump administration planning major increase of Guantánamo deportations, including citizens of Britain, France and other allies

  14. 14.

    YY_Sima Qian

    Trumps (or perhaps more precisely, Stephen Miller)is asking for US$187B for the ICE, that is larger than the France’s & the UK’s defense budgets, combined (gift link to FT article below):

    Trump is coming for the ‘enemy within’

    Sending the National Guard into LA is the administration’s clearest step yet towards authoritarianism

    Edward Luce Published YESTERDAY

  15. 15.

    suzanne

    @mrmoshpotato: @Jay: Yeah, I have no idea what’s happening. A follow-up message said it was just normal City police, but then someone rebutted that. Not being at home, I can’t go check.

  16. 16.

    Jeffro

    I know we have a million things to worry about but this BS video by “DNI” Gabbard aka Putin’s top plant is ridiculous on its face: oh America, don’t you think we should be worried about an impending nuclear holocaust?

    (never mind that the only person on the entire planet making noise about using nukes is her paymaster, Vlad)

    It’s so (relatively) weird and (relatively) out of the blue that I’d like to think it might wake up .00001% of MAGAts but that’s probably an overstatement…

    Anyway, F*** the MAGAts but if nothing else, I’m glad that we were right about her: completely bought and paid for and willing to do the (relatively) subtle work of trying to destroy America.  Now if we can just do the un-subtle work of destroying this maladministration’s anti-American agenda

  17. 17.

    Wapiti

    @Ryan: I sometimes think of the place in North Carolina as “Fort Braxton Bragg was a Traitor to the United States and should have been Hanged”.

  18. 18.

    Kelly

    We just finished Department Q, Netflix. A classic of the misfit team of detectives genre. Top marks in every category. Good acting, compelling story, well shot

  20. 20.

    Jackie

    MAGA is boycotting Walmart! That means much less crowded shopping for the rest of us ;-D

    Walmart heiress Christy Walton is facing backlash, and Walmart is facing some calls for a boycott from Trump supporters after placing a full-page ad in The New York Times urging Americans to attend town halls and engage in civic discourse.

    While the “No Kings Day” ad did not mention President Donald Trump by name, its emphasis on values like honoring commitments to allies, defending against dictators, and respecting trading partners was widely interpreted as a critique of Trump’s foreign policy and “America First” agenda.

    Walmart has faced criticism in the last several months, being one of many companies targeted by the “economic blackout” movement this year, alongside Amazon, Nestlé and General Mills.

    This backlash could cause MAGA-leaning American shoppers to step back from the retailer, potentially impacting sales as the chain faces criticism from other groups as well.

    The ad paid for by the Walmart heiress concluded with the statement, “The honor, dignity and integrity of our country is not for sale. Show up, attend your town halls, be civil,” and noted that the views expressed were solely those of Christy Walton.

    The ad also includes the following statements, indicating criticism of the Trump administration: “WE honor our commitments and stand by our allies,” “WE defend against aggression by dictators,” “WE respect our neighbors and trading partners.”

    “We are the people of the United States of America,” the ad said. “The honor, dignity, and integrity of our country are not for sale.”

    The new advertisement has sparked backlash among Trump supporters, with some even calling for others to boycott the retailer.

    A spokesperson for Walmart told Newsweek: “The advertisements from Christy Walton are in no way connected to or endorsed by Walmart. She does not serve on the board or play any role in decision making at Walmart.”

    newsweek.com/walmart-faces-maga-boycott-after-heiress-funds-no-kings-ad-2083607

    Who ever thought we’d see a Walmart heiress encouraging democracy?!!

  21. 21.

    different-church-lady

    First they said they were coming for everyone, and I did nothing because I am a dumbfuck.

  24. 24.

    Kayla Rudbek

    I’m burning out and it’s past time to start sending out resumes again. If I was younger and single I’d be seriously looking at leaving the USA.

  25. 25.

    Interesting Name Goes Here

    @different-church-lady: Someone brought it up in another thread that we shouldn’t be critical of people who may be seeing the light because we’ll need them on our side.

    Here’s the thing – I was willing to play that game the first time around.  This time, nah.  This is what they wanted, I hope they get it, and I hope the consequences haunt them until their bloodline ends.

  27. 27.

    Sure Lurkalot

    @Jackie:

    Who ever thought we’d see a Walmart heiress encouraging democracy?!!

    Yeah, right? She does have a pile of fuck you money.

    Abigail Disney is another… she was one of the plutocrats on the dump Biden train. She did support Harris’ campaign.

    Maybe they can pool resources with MacKenzie and Melinda and buy us Democrats an election or two. Apparently, it’s legal.

  28. 28.

    hotshoe

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    Trump administration planning major increase of Guantánamo deportations, including citizens of Britain, France and other allies

     What is the reaction of the French or UK government to this?

    When someone is in country illegally, eg came on a tourist visa and overstayed, I don’t think their embassy is going to be very helpful to them if/when they eventually get into trouble. I figure the response is probably “our hands are tied, our duty is to our citizens who aren’t breaking the law”. Which seems reasonable, basically, if ya didn’t love France enough to live in France, why should the French embassy exert themselves to return ya to France later.

    BUT. But this seems like a calculated insult from Dumpster to the other governments; his message is “I have the power. You have none. I will kidnap people and keep them from communication with you, and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.”

    Am I right in thinking Dumpster’s cruel use of Guantanamo is and should be perceived as an insult? What can a government leader, say Macron, do? What should they do?​

  29. 29.

    Craig

    @Kelly: it’s good. It’s run by Scott Frank, the guy Behind Queen’s Gambit, Monsieur Spade, and was a writer on Logan. He knows his business.

  31. 31.

    TheOtherHank

    Hell, why stop with those. We could have the Yamamoto Naval Air Station, Fort Ludendorf, Fort Rommel, etc

  32. 32.

    mrmoshpotato

    @Jackie:

    Who ever thought we’d see a Walmart heiress encouraging democracy?!! 

    She doesn’t have any control over the company, so maybe she decided her slave wage, welfare queen family could go to Hell long ago.

    Also, Walmart is probably only mad about Dump’s stupid tariff war if they’re mad at the orange shitstain about anything.

  34. 34.

    Gretchen

    @suzanne: It’s telling that, although they said they were going for « the worst of the worst », drug dealers and gang members, they’re uniformly going after harmless working people like manicurists, day laborers and dishwashers. Those gangbangers have guns and might hurt them. They’re too chicken to go after anyone who could actually be a danger to them, or to the community.  So much easier to pick up a 60 year old nanny. The chickens. Trump isn’t the only one who Always Chickens Out.

  35. 35.

    mrmoshpotato

    @hotshoe: When someone is in country illegally, eg came on a tourist visa and overstayed, I don’t think their embassy is going to be very helpful to them if/when they eventually get into trouble.

    I hope foreign embassies don’t treat their citizens like this.

  36. 36.

    apocalipstick

    As someone who is somewhat SBC-adjacent, they should stop worrying about same-sex marriage and focus on hosing out their own stables. A denomination-wide study a few (less than five) years ago revealed a sex scandal to rival the Catholic molestation scandal.

  37. 37.

    Jay

    @hotshoe:

    There is a legal requirement for the kidnapped to be allowed visits from the Embassy and welfare checks at the Concentration Camps. The Embassy will also do their best to get them legal representation and proper humane repatriation.

    If it is not adhered to, it tends to cause a major diplomatic break and some Countries will retaliate by taking hostages of their own.

  38. 38.

    Jackie

    @mrmoshpotato: Walmart did note in the article that she isn’t speaking for the corporation, and has nothing to do with the corporation.

    I give her kudos.

  39. 39.

    Chief Oshkosh

    @Jackie: Sure, MAGAts, go ahead and boycott Walmart. Further immiserate yourselves. While you’re at it, buy another 12-pack of Bud Light and shoot it up with your AR-15 look-a-like penis enhancer.

    I guess their next move will be to start eating grass and drinking sludgey water from road ditches. Hopefully they’ll all die quickly from curable or preventable diseases. I feel badly for their children, but hey, maybe the world will be a better place of other people’s kids.

  43. 43.

    suzanne

    @Gretchen: My neighborhood has a fantastic taqueria/supermercado, a Spanish-speaking nightclub and a couple of churches, and a few hair and nail salons that cater to the Latino community. They’re not going after criminals. The criminals are mostly white.

  44. 44.

    Bill Arnold

    @hotshoe:
    Interesting. Both France and the UK are thermonuclear powers, the main important power in the world, and either could destroy the USA, if a missile sub launched.

  46. 46.

    different-church-lady

    @Interesting Name Goes Here: I am willing to say, “Hey, you were a dumbfuck, but thanks for figuring it out.”

    I am NOT willing to say, “Oh, gosh, perhaps if I am nice to you, you will stop supporting hate.” Because… it don’t work that way.

  48. 48.

    Jim Appleton

    @Jackie:

    Who ever thought we’d see a Walmart heiress encouraging democracy?!!

    It’s not pro-democracy, it’s self defense.  Her bottom line hangs in the balance of a trade war.

  50. 50.

    Bupalos

    I do not love being the guy that comes on here to try and tell people that trump is a particular kind of genius,

    But given his whole “look backwards and hope” thing that he has going, this weird gradeschool-level statement of “I’m going to name all the things like they were back when we won battles… because I’m superstitious” is, considering where his power comes from, political genius.

    I mean, he’s distancing himself from a smart or intellectual view of history while pointing backwards, and kind of embracing that it’s just an emotion. Which, let’s face it, that’s where 85% of us want to go, even if we all have very different (and probably very particular and individual) things that draw us back. He’s deliberately just pointing back, and trying to say “this means little other than the direction!”

    And just in case folks think this idea of going back can’t be legitimate: It’s more than likely that we’ve already passed 1.5c of warming baked in by emissions that happened 5 years ago. Everyone has a reason to want to go back. Trump is like “yeah, let’s just feel that, even if it’s unreasonable, let’s just feel that.”

  51. 51.

    PPCLI

    Southern Baptists, eh? A reminder (from Wikipedia):

    In 1845, the Southern Baptists separated from the Triennial Convention [i.e. the other American Baptists] to uphold the institution of slavery, as American society divided over racial attitudes preceding the American Civil War. In 1995, the denomination apologized for racial positions in its history…

    I give them 15 years before they retract that apology…

  52. 52.

    Jay

    ex-Lethality Jane
    ‪@lethalityjane.bsky.social‬

    Follow
    Allegedly the units sent this out, that soldiers who disagreed politically could ask to be excused from attending the speech. Army didn’t want the optics of having people not applaud the President.

    ‪Aaron Rupar‬
    ‪@atrupar.com‬
    · 4h
    TRUMP: Los Angeles would be burning today, just like their houses were burning months ago. Generations of Army heroes did not shed their blood on distant shores only to watch our country be destroyed by invasion … as commander in chief, I will not let that happen

    FORT BRAGG TROOPS: *Hurrrraa!*

    1:34

    0:04 / 1:38

    June 10, 2025 at 2:05 PM

    Everybody can reply

    Threshold Crossed. The Nazi States of ‘Murica

  53. 53.

    cain

    He’s planning on jailing everyone. How is he going to pay for all this? He’s spending money like it’s going out of style. Hes’ going to do another huge tax cuts but what’s the point for companies? There aren’t going to be able to attract any talent from anywhere. Nobody. Is. Going. Come. Here.

    There will also be a reverse brain drain. He’s going to utterly fuck everyone with this nonsense.

  54. 54.

    different-church-lady

    @Bupalos:

    I do not love being the guy that comes on here to try and tell people that trump is a particular kind of genius…

    Well, then you probably shouldn’t be that guy.

  56. 56.

    MazeDancer

    62% chance of rain in DC on Saturday. Clouds in the morning. Thunderstorms in the afternoon.

    Strangely, the parade starts at 6:30 pm.

  58. 58.

    Ruckus

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    I’ve been to Gitmo. Ship I was stationed on stopped there. 3 different times

    Now it’s been a few decades since I was there but to take thousands of people there a hell of a lot has to change in the time since. And just looking at a current map, I doubt there is room for that many prisoners, sure it’s changed but it still does not look anywhere near roomy enough or likely to have enough staff to work there.

    But then when has shitforbrains ever done anything logically or realistically?

  60. 60.

    Bupalos

    @different-church-lady: Ha, you’re right.

    There is absolutely no good reason I should be here.

    I guess I just have a kind of compulsion around the idea that the way people are forming their “online communities” around bad consensus should be interfered with.

    I’m totally not disagreeing with you on that. But, Trump really is a very politically talented and intelligent guy, even as he’s incredibly sick in a human sense. I think it actually is in my own interest to try and get people to recognize this. He’s really rhetorically brilliant, and he might understand salient facts about our society and our own psychological needs better than most of us do.

    He’s very likely to get what he wants out of this “attack cities” thing, and mostly because we can’t organize or think about what he wants, and we just reflexively defend the kinds of responses he’s hoping for.

  64. 64.

    Another Scott

    @mrmoshpotato: +1

    “Illegal” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in these arguments.

    Immigration offenses are usually civil offenses.  Not criminal offenses.

    IANAL, but it seems to me that we don’t “deport” people for jaywalking or traffic tickets or skipping school or whatever.

    As always, controlling the framing of the debate via the language used limits careful thinking.  Over the longer term, we need to find ways to change the framing of these debates to make progress.

    “You know the guy who is working in your yard or putting the new roof on your neighbor’s house, or the nurse taking care of your grandma, is just trying to make a living.  They’re making your life and America better, the way our parents and grandparents did through their hard work.  Don’t let the monsters who are trying to steal our health care and rights and retirement demonize them…”

    Going down the road of “yes, but” or “the monsters have a point” muddies the message and breaks the emotional connection that we need to make to get people to listen to us.  Normies don’t have the time or inclination to understand policy nuance.  They need to have that gut reaction in our favor to even be persuadable…

    FWIW.

    Best wishes,
    Scott.

  65. 65.

    cain

    I’m already plotting out my exit and I know a number of folks who are LBGTQ+ in the high tech world doing the same. I know for them it is even worse. I mean if the only meaningful citizenship to these clowns is bubba ho-tep six pack and his 12 inch stomach and a high school degree.. have at it.

  66. 66.

    suzanne

    @Kristine: Nothing is planned but it would be a blast!

    My flight is delayed so if anyone’s near the G gates and wants to chill, come on over. LOL.

  68. 68.

    lowtechcyclist

    @apocalipstick:

    As someone who is somewhat SBC-adjacent, they should stop worrying about same-sex marriage and focus on hosing out their own stables.

    Yeah, like they’re going to ever do that.  I haven’t been specifically SBC-adjacent more than in passing, but I’ve definitely been evangelical-adjacent for much of my life. The religious right is all about getting their flock up in arms about scapegoats and boogeymen, ever since the days of backwards masking (remember that one?) if not earlier.

    They’re not going to talk about their own very real sins: doing do would distract from riling up their congregants at the danger that The Other (whatever Other works best this week) represents.  They’ve done a good job of ignoring that report that you mention, and  the news stories about evangelical youth pastors molesting children and teens just keep on coming.

    Their faith is empty, a whitewashed sepulcher.  If there was anything real about their relationship with Christ, they’d try loving other people, even people who are not like them (which is what the Samaritan of Jesus’ parable did – and we are told to emulate the Samaritan), rather than finding ways to make life difficult for people who haven’t done the least bit of harm to them.

    Maybe they don’t want their kids to be gay, trans, nonbinary, or whatever.  That doesn’t mean they get to turn this whole freakin’ country into a ‘safe space’ where their kids won’t be exposed to the notion that it’s perfectly OK to go one of those routes.  Maybe their faith should be strong enough – as the early Christians in the Book of Acts were, and as mine was when I first found the Lord at the beginning of my junior year in a public high school – to thrive as Christians in a secular world.  But if their faith needs government protection from even hearing about people who believe it’s OK to live differently than they do, it’s a pretty weak faith indeed.

    “Not by might, nor by power, but by my Spirit, saith the Lord of Hosts” is a verse I’ve heard frequently over my life from the lips of conservative Christians.  And “love not the world.”  But the Spirit must’ve let them down, because they’ve decided to go the wordly might and power route in defense of their pitiful faith.  And they’re loving the world enough to seek and use that worldly power to rule over the rest of us if they can. How can you be in bed with ‘the world’ as Christians understand it, any more than that?

    Fuck them and their perverted notion of what Christianity is. They are anti-evangelists for Christianity, repelling most people away from their version of it.  And what converts they get, as Jesus told the Pharisees, are twice as fit for hell as they are themselves.

    The presence of the Lord in one’s life can be an amazing, transformational thing.  It’s hard for me to believe that the Southern Baptists who are voting for these resolutions of theirs have ever experienced any of that.

  69. 69.

    Craig

    @mrmoshpotato: I don’t know Christy Walton, but Alice Walton funded Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Bentonville. Spectacular place. Great collection, and it’s free. The early American collection, when western New York was the frontier is great. Hell, the frames on those old paintings are incredibly ornate and complex. They have a shop with 5 master frame makers just to maintain them. It has walking and bike trails through the wooded property. Since it’s free it has become a travel destination for people headed through the Ozarks. We I’ve been there-cousin lives in NWA- I see redneck families with a bunch of kinds clomping around looking at cool art. That those kids have the chance to be exposed to crazy stuff like Yayoi Kusama, and American Masters going back 300 years is incredibly good.

  70. 70.

    suzanne

    Update: apparently not ICE, it was a police van on some other stakeout. Not sure if that makes me feel any better.

  71. 71.

    Rusty

    Send the British and French to Gitmo, shoot the foreign press with rubber bullets.  International tourism will be absolutely dead in the US in another month.  More economic hurt on top of everything else.

  72. 72.

    lowtechcyclist

    @Bupalos:

    I do not love being the guy that comes on here to try and tell people that trump is a particular kind of genius,

    A ‘stable genius’? ;-)

  73. 73.

    Bupalos

    @Another Scott: I have a large format printer, and a mother who lives in one of the communities dependent on immigrant labor.

    I’m gong to make signs, and when those guys are driving the (horribly destructive) big mowers over the (completely unsustainable) expanses of (chemically treated) grass….

    I’m going to plunk down a sign about it.

    Which… is probably something that the workers wouldn’t want.

  76. 76.

    Bupalos

    @lowtechcyclist: Compared to Musk he’s stable.

    He’s not that unstable. He’s lived with this for 40 years. He has a mode of operation.

    What I find most disturbing among the disturbing things about the USA 2025 is that Trump pretty much fits right in. He’s not any more “unstable” than 40% of the population, the top half of which people here would be like “but on the other hand, they’d take the shirt off their back.” To clarify, that’s the (online left) bottom 20-40%. You meet these people in meat-space, and you’ll BADLY underestimate their degree of polarization to the right.

    Most of the polarization here online happens because it’s ONLINE.

    Which means, you already chose the 29% of the electorate you wanted to interact and have “fights” with. And now you’re insisting on parsing that down until we’re all dead.

  77. 77.

    different-church-lady

    @Bupalos: He’s a sociopath. You don’t seem to understand how a sick society could find a sociopath compelling.

    Also: everyone here is already WELL FUCKING AWARE he has a compelling effect. That doesn’t make him a genius, that makes him a sociopath.

  79. 79.

    Old Man Shadow

    I’ve lived in Los Angeles my entire life.

    We are not animals. Our neighborhoods are not burning down. We would not set our city on fire.

    Hell, we’ve had rowdier crowds when the Lakers or Dodgers win the championship.

    We are Americans. We are the fucking heirs of the American Revolution, the Declaration of Independence, and the fucking Constitution. We do not take kindly to Gestapo motherfuckers encroaching on our neighborhoods and kidnapping pizza cooks, construction workers, day laborers, fathers, mothers, sons, daughters, grandparents, nieces, nephews, and family.

    We get along fine with each other for the most part. We live, we sleep, we work in peace. We eat and we have the cuisine of the world in our backyards. You can drive 20 minutes in any direction and find food from just about every country on the globe.

    That is a part of what makes my fucking city great. We have music and art from around the world.

    We survived riots. Real riots. This isn’t one.

    Now I know conservatives hate us for all of those reasons. They think Black Americans are lazy and criminals. They think Latino Americans are all here illegally and not real Americans. They probably think Asian Americans are spies or some bullshit. They think pale ass Americans like myself who live here are race traitors because we despise their hate and enjoy living in a melting pot.

    Well, fuck them. We are Americans. We are real Americans. We accept folks. We welcome folks. We treat people kindly until you give us a fucking reason not to.

    People coming here looking for trouble are not welcome here. People coming here thinking they can intimidate us into submission are wrong. People coming here to kidnap our neighbors, well, we will try and stop you.

  80. 80.

    Chetan Murthy

    @twbrandt: Tulsi, like Whiskey Pete and Gravel Pit Kristi, knows that the only part of the “job” that is mandatory is lookin’ “hawt” for Don Donnie.  All the rest he DGAF.

  81. 81.

    Bupalos

    @different-church-lady: Of course I get that. What??!?

    That’s the whole thing.

    Society is sick. Trump is the result.

    The disconnect happens because everyone (so to speak) here thinks they aren’t part of society, they’re in some special place. That they found online. And then start to think of themselves as existing outside of what we used to call reality. “I live in Pennsylvania, but I hate Pennsylvania…. my real world is online.”

    The reason the right wins is because we’re online. Because of this theory that there are other realities. This is going to keep happening until we have another way to deal with the destabilization we’re going through.

  83. 83.

    hotshoe

    @Bill Arnold: ​
     
    Umm, I have a vivid imagination, but I don’t imagine that UK or any EU government would think nuclear weapons are the correct response to Dumpster’s provocation.

    How about if we imagine that they expel all American-born people as a response instead. Send ’em all back on tramp freighters. That might be appropriate.

    I’ve lived 11 years longer than I expected when Russian invaded Crimea. When that happened, I got in touch with my son; not urgent to say “goodbye” but I expected any day to hear that EU forces had gone to war with Russia to prevent Putin from establishing his precedent of occupying territory wherever he wanted. Further I expected it would require US to take the side of our NATO allies — which I figured would eventually result in some shitwad on one side or the other deciding to launch their nuclear missiles. I am blessed to live so close to major military targets that I never have to worry about surviving the nuclear apocalypse.

    Well, it still could happen … I guess … my last thought “I hope they got Mar-a-Lago first” ;)

  84. 84.

    pajaro

    @hotshoe:

    There are treaties that regulate the access that individuals can have to their consulates in foreign countries if they are detained abroad.  I don’t know how detention in Guantanamo might affect the ability of those with a right to access to obtain it, but your assumption that countries are uninterested in attempting to protect their citizens who get into trouble while abroad is not correct.

  87. 87.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Old Man Shadow: Amen, OMS.  LA is the only other city besides NYC that creates its own cultural “weather”.  It’s a -phenomenon-, and that’s because of all the immigrants who moved there, starting with the Jewish movie stars in the early 20th century.

  89. 89.

    Redshift

    @YY_Sima Qian:

    We should remember that they loudly announced they were sending “illegals” to Gitmo earlier this year, and then had to quietly abandon the plan after transporting (if I recall correctly) something like twenty people there. This announcement it truly appalling and should be fought, but I remain skeptical about their ability to follow through.

  90. 90.

    Bupalos

    @different-church-lady: OK.

    Sorry everyone.

    I was trying to speak for all of you, but I’ll stop that. What would help me though is if all of the posters that felt I was inappopriately trying to speak for you could make their own opinion here clear so I can steer clear of that.

  91. 91.

    Redshift

    @Old Man Shadow:

    We survived riots. Real riots. This isn’t one.

    They’re pulling the Fox News “every protest is a riot” scheme. Guess there’s a reason why all of their department heads were recruited from there.

  93. 93.

    Bupalos

    Here’s the most important thing about the opinion you’re about to share:

    It’s shaped by the new reality that you’re part of an “online community” that in some respects represents your withdrawal from the place you actually are and the people that are actually around you. We are trying to select a new reality, with a new set of people around us. That’s the single most real thing that is happening.

    For your kids, or your kid’s kids, the single most real thing that is happening is that people with developing brains are spending time in front of screens. That is what is ACTUALLY HAPPENING.

  94. 94.

    Bupalos

    @Old Man Shadow:We survived riots. Real riots. This isn’t one.

    It’s a pertinent question: which is more dangerous, a “real riot” or a “virtual one.”

    The real answer depends on whether real people live in the real world… or a virtual one. And the disturbing answer may be “they live in a virtual one.”

  95. 95.

    hotshoe

    @Jay:

    Good!

    Makes me wonder even more, though, about the point of “with no intention of notifying their home governments” if the news is correct about Dumpster’s plan.  

    Why NOT notify the other governments and encourage/force the countries to repatriate their own citizens?

    This is the archive version of the Wapo story, which says:

    U.S. officials said the individuals being vetted for transfer are in the United States illegally. Many of the detainees’ home countries have told the U.S. they are willing to accept their citizens but have not moved quickly enough in the eyes of the DHS

    For chrissake, if we’re in such a hurry to put them on a plane to dump them in Guantanamo, why not simply put them on a plane the same day to dump them at Heathrow or De Gualle or wherever.

    As always, the answer turns out to be “The cruelty is the point”.

  98. 98.

    Chetan Murthy

    @hotshoe: Adam Serwer wrote a book (and before that, an article) with the title “The Cruelty Is The Point”.

    Wanna scare undocumented immigrants, overstays, etc?  Make the -cost- of doing those things be terrifyingly high.

  100. 100.

    Bupalos

    @Bupalos:

     

    @Omnes Omnibus: Another good question would be “why would I do that in a space that doesn’t actually have “selves” in any sense that exists beyond “the things that entity was constructed out of from comments in their online community?”

  101. 101.

    Bupalos

    @Chetan Murthy: This is it. There’s a lot of talk about how it’s impossible to deport everyone with questionable status. That’s true, and if you took that seriously, how would you accomplish it?

    Terror.

    If you don’t self-deport, we’ll probably torture your child.

    That’s what we’re looking at.

  103. 103.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Chetan Murthy: When I was just out of grad school, I got a postdoc job with INRIA just outside of Paris.  French govt research lab.  I showed up a month early, so I could take a month’s worth of classes at the Alliance Francaise.  B/c I didn’t know even a -word- of French.  I (of course) vacated my housing in Ithaca NY (where i’d gone to grad school).  So (haha) unbeknowst to me, the French govt (or INRIA, idunno) sent me an invitation to a visa interview, -after- I’d already left for France.  So I never got it.  Come the first day of work, I show up, obvs. without a visa.  The people at INRIA don’t bat an eye.  They pretend that they’ve seen the visa, get me hired, etc.  Nearly a year later, they send thru another visa interview invitation, and this time while I’m back in the US for conferences, I fly down to the French consulate in Houston to to it.  All squared-away.

    So I was an “overstay” for nearly a year. In that time, I’m sure I showed my US passport to Lord-knows-how-many French police and government officials.  No problemo.  No.  Problemo.  Nobody ever bundled me into a van and into a fucking jail or prison.  Instead, everybody was kind and helpful, helping me to deal with the bureaucracy until I got everything squared-away.

    We are making ourselves a pariah among civilized nations.

  104. 104.

    Jay

    ‪derek guy‬
    ‪@dieworkwear.bsky.social‬
    · 2h
    Not true.

    I see you’re a luxury watch dealer. I’m also interested in watches. Let me show you how free and easy migration has allowed you to earn a living. 🧵
    Corey Wiley on Twitter writes: “You don’t get it.
    Foundational immigration law is morally just and has been established over millennia. Disrespecting these rules and ideals is very offensive to folks who highly value civilized society”
    ALT

    121

    1.4K

    bsky.app/profile/dieworkwear.bsky.social/post/3lrc3xjjwc22n

  105. 105.

    Bupalos

    @Chetan Murthy: Yup.

    This is all a choice. Everyone knows there are laws and then there are what those laws are actually about.

    Anyone pretending the laws force us to take action to get this landscaper out of here….. they’re pretending.

  106. 106.

    pajaro

    @hotshoe:

    They appear to be in a desperate hurry to deport as many people as they can as fast as they can, because Trump is upset with the numbers so far.  Really, that’s it.

    They are going to parking lots where people congregate looking for day labor, to attempt to arrest them, figuring that many will be undocumented.

    Oh, and this tactic is good for blue states only.  The corrupt coward has already let the red states with agricultural laborers know that they will be left alone.

  107. 107.

    Jackie

    NBC has projected Mikie Sherrill wins the Democratic primary in New Jersey in governor’s race. No surprise, really, but happy to report good news! :-D

  108. 108.

    Bupalos

    @pajaro: They appear to be in a desperate hurry to deport as many people as they can as fast as they can, because Trump is upset with the numbers so far.  Really, that’s it.

    Yeah, there’s been a fair amount of attention to the reality that the depo numbers look about the same as the prior admin.

    It’s interesting, because I bet they could have just faked this or slow-rolled this.

    But I think there are some TrueBelievers in this admin that probably don’t get that or actually want to try and change America. And were chaffing. Trump himself isn’t one. Trump doesn’t care about anything.

    But that’s a hard thing to get across. Trump is one small part of what is happening, and what is going to continue.

  109. 109.

    comrade scotts agenda of rage

    @Sure Lurkalot:

    When billionaires start actually buying us elections with candidates that aren’t variations of Ro Khanna, MGP and the rest of that part of the party, I’ll then consider them “good billionaires”.

  110. 110.

    suzanne

    @Redshift: Oh man, I am excited to come see it!!! I love seeing my projects once they are released into the world! A meetup would be very fun.

  113. 113.

    geg6

    Much like how I reference National Airport, the Gulf of Mexico and Heinz Field, I will continue to use the proper names.  Fuck that asshole and fuck those traitorous, racist assholes.

  114. 114.

    Ruckus

    @Old Man Shadow:

    BINGO

    My business was very near Watts. I had a gentleman who worked for me who lived in Watts. A very nice normal man with a very nice normal wife and a child. I know because I’ve been in his house. He worked for me for years.

  115. 115.

    Lyrebird

    @geg6:Much like how I reference National Airport, the Gulf of Mexico and Heinz Field, I will continue to use the proper names.  Fuck that asshole and fuck those traitorous, racist assholes.

    Same.

    Can’t say it any better than you did!

    And thank you OMS!!!

    @Old Man Shadow:Hell, we’ve had rowdier crowds when the Lakers or Dodgers win the championship.

    Sports fans at one of the universities I attended burned cars on the regular.  I’m not approving of it, but fer cryin out loud.

    Also, some Hispanic families in LA may have been there since the 17th century or so…

  118. 118.

    Chetan Murthy

    @eclare: Maybe one of the parade planners (not that Li’l Donnie GAF) thought about minimizing the toll of heat-related casualties ?  Thinkin’ maybe it’d cool off in the evening ?

  119. 119.

    Ruckus

    @Old Man Shadow:

    I’ve lived in Los Angeles County for most of my life. Not all of it though. I was born in Queen of Angels hospital in the first half of the last century. My mother was born in Queen of Angeles. Different building because they’ve rebuilt it a number of times, bigger, medical improvements, for the most part. Last I heard it’s been rebuilt 5 times. It’s no longer a hospital, closed as one in 1989, but the last building is still there and still used.

  120. 120.

    Jay

    What a shithole nation,…………………..

    Ron Filipkowski
    ‪@ronfilipkowski.bsky.social‬

    Follow
    DNI Tulsi Gabbard repeats Putin’s talking points today, releasing an unhinged video where she claims that “political elites” want a nuclear war with Russia because they have sophisticated bomb shelters that will help them survive it.

    1:05

    0:06 / 1:12

    June 10, 2025 at 8:50 AM

    Everybody can reply

  122. 122.

    eclare

    @Chetan Murthy:

    Maybe…although I understand DC is also very humid.  Depending on altitude (and I assume DC is at sea level), that does not go away in the evening.

    Anyway, from the National Guard sleeping on the floor to FFOTUS making soldiers march in period dress in June, it’s clear he considers our soldiers to be losers.

  123. 123.

    Ruckus

    @Redshift:

    I’ve been to Gitmo a number of times and unless they have built out a lot, on what ground I have no clue, they cannot hold a lot of people there. Now I haven’t been there for over 50 years so it may not look like what I saw when I was there. But I still don’t see a lot of room for housing.

  124. 124.

    Chetan Murthy

    @eclare: Soldiers swear an oath to the Constitution.  By the Constitution, the fat bastard is not eligible for federal office.  Those soldiers who continue to obey his orders ….. forfeit -any- sympathy from me.  They can all get brain damage from heat exhaustion as far as I care.

  126. 126.

    Lyrebird

    @eclare: @Chetan Murthy: Some context from a DKos diary:

    The National Weather Service is, as of this posting June 10th, predicting a temperature of 83º F (with humidity at 75%) and thunderstorms starting in the afternoon on June 14, 2025.

    That was pretty typical when I worked in the DC area, 4 or 5pm t-storm, disappointing bc it doesn’t make things much cooler.

    I like the sign from @lowtechcyclist: YES to our troops, NO to …sorry I forgot, but it was on point.

    I hope they get enough weather to bring down enthusiasm but not to harm any of the people who are marching.  It’s not an unlawful order, just wasteful and spiteful.

  127. 127.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Lyrebird: It’s not an unlawful order

    We’ll have to agree to disagree about that.  He’s barred from federal office as an insurrectionist.  His position is unlawful per se.  So all orders he gives are unlawful.  The only reason I obey any of his laws, is the consequences of disobedience.

  128. 128.

    Lyrebird

    @Chetan Murthy: Agreed to disagree, and generally of the same view that he should have been barred from office!

    In these times I think it’s extra important to stick together, like backing what imperfect Newsom is doing vs taking over LA, like cheering when the ACLU gets the (gags) Cato Institute to collaborate to fight back, etc.

  129. 129.

    Jay

    @eclare:

    It’s actually a brilliant move by Whiskey Pete.

    No food, no water, no shelter, sleeping on concrete and in the streets.

    He’s “training up” the Military for the BBB VA cuts and introducing them to their future, living unhoused, on the streets, begging for spare change.

  130. 130.

    Chetan Murthy

    @Lyrebird: sure, that’s fine.  Thing is, I cannot but cheer when people who collaborate with the bastard suffer.  I cannot but cheer.  Doesn’t matter who those collaborators are: if they suffer, that is good news.

  131. 131.

    Jay

    ‪Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez‬
    ‪@aoc.bsky.social‬
    · 2h
    I will be damned if I allow a bunch of Confederate-waving January 6th apologists give the American people a lecture on flag waving.

    There is ZERO reason to enter an argument about patriotism with people who still worship traitors to America 150+ years later.

    They. Are. Breaking. The. Law.

    636

    9.9K

  133. 133.

    Jay

    ‪The Tennessee Holler‬
    ‪@thetnholler.bsky.social‬
    · 45m
    WATCH: “Holy f*ck — They literally just shot her point blank… I live here…”

    @lapdhq shoot a woman trying to get to her apartment at point blank range with a rubber bullet.

    Alexandria’s page (the woman who helps her): tiktok.com/@labyrinthlo...

    1:17

    1:01 / 2:19

    53

    475

    ACAB

  134. 134.

    VFX Lurker

    @Gretchen: My son in law is a fan of gouda with dates.

    That sounds divine. Will remember this the next time I bring fruit and cheese to a gathering of friends.

  137. 137.

    different-church-lady

    @Marc: Yeah, I got a question: who was dumb enough to think they wouldn’t go after the heartland?

  138. 138.

    different-church-lady

    @pajaro: ​First they came for the blue states, and I spoke out, but the red states didn’t listen.

    Then they came for the red states, and I said, “Told you, dumbfucks.”

  139. 139.

    Steve Paradis

    duffelblog.com/p/fort-irwin-to-be-renamed-fort-hitler

    The decision, approved by a panel of Army historians in line with guidance from President Donald and Secretary of Defense Pete Hegseth, came after an exhaustive search for underrecognized soldiers who embodied valor, sacrifice, and a name that “just kinda stuck out.”

    “Corporal Johann Adolf Hitler — no relation to the, uh, other Hitler — was a stretcher bearer at the Battle of Antietam,” said Hegseth. “He saved dozens of lives under fire and later ran a respectable sausage cart in Cincinnati.”

  141. 141.

    brantl

    @MazeDancer: I hope it rains like a son of a bitch on that parade. I think that would be God just telling stumpy “ you’re a dick”.

Comments are closed.