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I’ve said before that John Carter was a perfectly cromulent sense-of-wonder movie, doomed by crappy marketing… and the fact that most professional film critics couldn’t/wouldn’t understand that Edgar Rice Burroughs has been mined by just about every successful sf/fantasy movie-maker for the last 100 years. (A lot of the material the filmsnobs declared “derivative” actually originated with Barsoom, but people who make their livings eating snakkfuds in the dark had no interest in learning that.)
It thrills my long-latent OG-Trekkie-fangrrl instincts to discover (via a comment at TBogg’s place) that John Carter : Back To Barsoom — The Sequel Campaign has a Facebook page… and a half-table at Comic-Con. (Even better, for my purposes, the campaign petition is hosted through Change.org, so the Spousal Unit and I could actually sign it.)
I grew up in the pre-Spielberg, pre-Lucas world, when the best convention coverage we could expect from the “mundanes” in the general media was half a column/30 seconds of “ha ha, dorks in funny costumes! Everybody point and larf!” I am genuinely pleased, for all the fans of the later and rising generations, that today even the NYTImes feels obligated to report that “a comics event” might have “gravitas”. In the ‘Business Day’ section, no less! Truly, these are the days of miracles and wonders!
Marcellus Shale, Public Dick
for a blog that has been objectively pro-kiddie diddling for the last 8 months or so, maybe its time to put away this sort of childish bullshit, at least until after the most important election in the lives of so many people.
remember, the only place “our side” really can win, is in the courts, which makes making those appointments, paramount.
Spaghetti Lee
It seems bizarre that people should have to encourage Hollywood to make a sequel to an action movie. Seems like enabling. I’m sure I’d feel different if I was a John Carter fan (not that I dislike it, just never got into it).
I grew up in the pre-Spielberg, pre-Lucas world, when the best convention coverage we could expect from the “mundanes” in the general media was half a column/30 seconds of “ha ha, dorks in funny costumes! Everybody point and larf!”
It sure is weird. If you went back to, say, the 80’s and said “In a few decades, Hollywood will be producing dozens of blockbuster movies about superheroes with A-List actors and 100 million dollar budgets, frat boys will line up outside the door for video game releases, fashion models will pose in thick glasses and hooded sweatshirts, and a comic book convention in San Diego will become one of the entertainment industry’s biggest events,” I wonder who would have believed you.
Yutsano
@Marcellus Shale, Public Dick:
Uhh…what?
Anne Laurie
@Marcellus Shale, Public Dick:
“A revolution without dancing is not a revolution worth having.” — Emma Goldman
piratedan
hell, I was simply geeked when Mysterious Girlfriend X was made into an anime. You just never know, after all, we’re a nation on the verge of re-electing a person of color.. who knows, maybe we’ll allow ourselves the possibility of dreaming again.
Spaghetti Lee
@Marcellus Shale, Public Dick:
Comma squad, ASSEMBLE!
Bnut
@Marcellus Shale, Public Dick: You on the right blog there guy?
Ok, so the Knicks have signed Jason Kidd. And have just traded for Ray Felton and Kurt Thomas (what is the obsession with getting former Knicks back in the blue and orange?). Where does this leave Jeremy Lin? Are the Knicks gonna carry 3 PG’s into the season? As usual, the whole NY front office has everyone scratching their heads. I bet Chandler and Anthony both tear an ACL during the Olympics. This is why we can’t have nice things.
The prophet Nostradumbass
James Carville: 10 pounds of Southern-fried shit, in a 5 pound bag.
Xenos
Has anyone put together a list of plot ideas and themes that originated in the John Carter books that were adapted by other writers?
For example, does Superman’s powers, which were originally a matter of high-gravity adapted strength deployed in a lower-gravity world, come from John Carter’s earthly strength in low gravity mars?
Rex Everything
I just want to use this open thread to announce that Matt Taibbi sux & Ben Wittes rulz & I feel this way because I’m such an O.G. Leftist wut!?
The prophet Nostradumbass
@Xenos: Can’t say that I have, but do you remember the “Funniest Joke In the World” Monty Python sketch? There was a show on Science Channel that made me wonder about where they got the idea; it was a segment about a tune called “Gloomy Sunday”, which allegedly caused people to commit suicide.
Joey Maloney
Via Fred Clark’s slacktivist, at least one Alabama judge gets it:
Judge halts ‘debtors prison’ by Harpersville city court, calls it ‘judicially sanctioned extortion’
Follow the link to read the judge’s order – it’s short. But outrage burns on each page.
Alison
@Marcellus Shale, Public Dick: Seconding Yutsano and Bnut – what the fuck are you talking about?
Basilisc
Here’s something we should be asking ourselves (and the country): should someone who claims he wasn’t “really” CEO at a time when legal documents said he was CEO be trusted in some other position of power, like, say, President of the US?
And is the fact that he apparently didn’t “really” perform the duties of Governor of Massachusetts during at least half the time he was, nominally, Governor of Massachusetts also relevant here?
Just some late-night thoughts.
Calouste
@Basilisc:
Well, nominally that person is the frontrunning candidate for the nomination of the GOP. Actually, he is sailing around his grandkids on a fancy boat this weekend before going abroad for a week or two soon.
PurpleGirl
AL: Thanks for the links and information about John Carter. I really liked the movie and would love to have a sequel. It deserves it.
As to the recognition of sf/fantasy/comics fandom: Yes. It really is something that it now gets real articles. During the early 1970s I was involved in Star Trek fandom in NYC and we got really short articles or TV news pieces. I haven’t been to a convention in years but I remember them fondly.
Mino
Wonder why Mittens was so mumbly, mumbly about the Olympic uniforms Made In China?
He, he. Well, turns out there was a bit of outsourcing in his Olympic gear –Myanmar, no less. Team apparel, Canada. Catering, even.
Expect more to be found in the days to come.
Wonder how long before he states he was not responsible at the time.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/14/1110009/-Romney-got-12-500-Uniforms-from-Myanmar
NotMax
Remind me to tell you sometime about how I was stalked by Gene Roddenberry at the very first Star Trek convention.
Last Comic-Con I attended was in ’84. Once Big Hollywood crept in, lost all interest.
Joseph Nobles
Mrs. Peel is the Queen of Thorns. **ded**
Allen
I’m not sure which reviewers you were reading, but most didn’t call it derivative; they just called it bad. Even the uber-nerd reviewers at Ain’t It Cool News, who certainly know all the nerdy, nerd, nerd background (I can say that, because I am one ;-) ), didn’t like it.
Frankensteinbeck
I can’t speak for previous generations, but the 80s were thick with insecure masculinity, the decade where ‘nerd’ was such a common and terrible insult they made movies just to be contrarian about it. It wasn’t just science fiction fandom – anything that was associated with men being less than alpha dog sexual conquerers was treated as shameful. People are starting not to care. I think My Little Pony is doing wonderful things now to slap a generation with ‘who cares how macho I am?’ thoughts.
@Allen:
That’s weird. Writing, cinematography, special effects, the setting and choreography of its action scenes – I can’t think of a single way John Carter wasn’t better than Avengers.
Oh, and to all confused, I think @Marcellus Shale, Public Dick is indulging in a satire of trolling.
Allen
I actually have no opinion on it. With a toddler in the house, we see movies when they come to the pay movie channels, else pay three times as much for a babysitter as for the movie tickets. ;-)
That said, I don’t think it’s useful to make fun of critics–unless they’re the movie critics of the Washington Post, who are horrible (Ann Hornaday, I’m looking at you). I’ve found over 35 years or so of watching movies that the critics generally tend to be accurate. It helps though to find which ones you can rely on. My most trustworthy critic is Richard Roeper. YMMV.
Given the comments on here, I will definitely check it out when it hits the pay channels.
Frankensteinbeck
@Allen:
I think ‘it helps to find which ones you can rely on’ is important. Critics have their own biases, agendas, and areas of specialty. I cringe over the Salon critic (who I’d thought wasn’t bad) who criticized Ponyo On The Cliff By The Sea for being too much about little girls. Talk about missing the point (of Miyazaki’s entire body of work, no less)…
Allen
And let me do my mea culpa, and correct what I said earlier. Ain’t It Cool News usually has multiple reviews on many movies. I just checked, and while some of them didn’t like John Carter, some of them did. In fact, AICN proprietor Harry Knowles loved it (and he’s the only one of their reviewers to have been a guest reviewer with Ebert following Siskel’s passing, before Ebert eventually picked Roeper as the permanent replacement).
I will definitely check it out!
amk
@Mino: So mitt was being “out-sourcer in chief” even when he was not being mr bain ?
TomG
I absolutely loved the Barsoom novels and I had looked forward to this movie, because I couldn’t imagine how you could screw up such a great story. Haven’t seen it yet, but I’m worried it added too much that wasn’t in the first book.
I’ll just have to go back and re-read the books.
And hope that Hollywood doesn’t ever decide to make the Skylark or Lensman series into movies.
(yeah, different author, I know)
((actually, I’m sure that Skylark could be done, in 2 or 3 movies. But the writer & director would probably change stuff that didn’t need changing (like the purple dialogue). ))
James Gary
I am genuinely pleased, for all the fans of the later and rising generations, that today even the NYTImes feels obligated to report that “a comics event” might have “gravitas”. In the ‘Business Day’ section, no less!
http://www.theonion.com/articles/comics-not-just-for-kids-anymore-reports-85000th-m,28727/
Digital Amish
I remember moving into a hooch in 1970 and finding a box of E.R. Burroughs paperbacks under my bunk, all the John Carter and Tarzan books and some others that I don’t remember. Read them all (mostly while stoned on S.E. Asian pot) over the next few months. A John Carter fan ever since. To whomever left those books in a hooch in Qua Viet — thanks.
FourTen
John Carter fought for the South.
All those books are just more ‘noble cause’ propaganda BULLSHIT on the part of Burrows.
Uncle Cosmo
@TomG: You really think Doc Smith’s dialogue wouldn’t need changing???!? Gak.
A couple of years ago I started rereading the Lensman series (which I have floating around in disintegrating paperbacks). Remembering that Triplanetary was actually backdated into the sequence, I started with First Lensman & was gobsmacked at how well written it was (compared with what I remembered). Had I totally underestimated Smith?
Then I moved on to Galactic Patrol…& was rapidly disabused. Grey Lensman, Second Stage Lensman, Chhildren of the Lens, likewise. As it happens, FL was a fill-in novel written some years after the others–by which time, it appears, Smith had actually learned to write not-quite-cringeworthy prose…
I note from Wikipedia that as of 2008 Ron Howard had obtained the rights to the series & Joe Straczynski (of Babylon-5) was working on it. Since then, nary a peep. I don’t think John Carter‘s megaflop will help the prospects…
Anton Sirius
@Basilisc:
That’s one of the beautiful parts of the Bain offensive. Romney’s choices are a) I was in charge when I was CEO and take responsibility for profiting off outsourcing and disposing of aborted fetuses, or b) I had no clue what my underlings were doing when I was CEO and was easily distracted from my day job by shiny things like the Olympics.
Neither of those are particularly good qualities in a president. It’s like a forking attack in chess. Does Romney want to lose his rook, or his bishop?
Anton Sirius
@Allen:
Speaking as an AICN reviewer and someone who thinks the world of the big guy… Harry loves everything.
That said I thought John Carter was solid entertainment, and was easily the best of the three films in this, the Summer Of Taylor Kitsch Bombs.
Jay C
@Spaghetti Lee:
While Hollywood rarely does have to be badgered to make sequels to big- budget action flicks, John Carter is something of an exception. IIRC, for a number of reasons, both on the production and marketing sides, JC was a huge (as in multi-scores-of-millions huge) box- office disaster for Disney, and supposedly, the studio was so turned off by its poor reception, (and the Niagara of red ink), they shelved any more Barsoom projects for the foreseeable future.
Jaime
I am, I think, the target demographic for JOHN CARTER. I was 12 yo in the 1970s when ERB’s novels were widely available in paperback with the awesome covers by Frazetta and an uber-nerd science fiction and space opera fan, besides. That said, I was baffled by 1) the title change to the stunningly vague JOHN CARTER (of what? Peoria? The Bank of the West?) 2) The TV ads I saw having really muted colors – the better to sell it as ‘grim and gritty’ perhaps? If any setting demands colorful, barbaric splendor, it’s Barsoom.
Seeing the movie, I was shocked at how blah Mars looked. I’ve seen landscape photos of Monument Valley that were more vivid. Having four beginnings didn’t help the film’s case, either. I also felt that JC’s ‘Superman’ leaps were over-done. That may have been ERB’s intent, but I never imagined them going to that extreme. I didn’t think JOHN CARTER was a complete train-wreck, but I can’t say it’s the best Burroughs adaptation I’ll see in my lifetime. Given its cost, though, it’s probably the last.
Allen
@Anton Sirius: Yes, I know that’s the common perception around AICN. But if you read his entire reviews, it’s easy to tell which he considers better than others, something which I would posit includes John Carter. Plus while some at AICN didn’t care for it, others besides Harry liked it a lot.
That said, I rarely base my movie watching on Harry alone, with the exception of Hostel. Most critics hated it, Harry liked it. I tried it, and actually found it to be a pretty good escape/revenge movie, with a great build-up, and not nearly the bloodiness one would expect–thankfully for someone like me who used to close his eyes during the operating scenes in the TV show E.R.–as most of the torture was suggested or took place off-screen or in quick flashes. Hostel 2 was horrible however; one of the worst things I’ve ever seen.
Spaghetti Lee
@FourTen:
Yeah, Burroughs, that damn confederate who was born in Chicago and moved to California.
If you want to be the Grand High Inspector for Goodthink in art and literature, get your ass over to RedState.
Woodrowfan
As much as I like Roger Ebert he annoyed the heck out of me back when “Return to Oz” came out* when he bitched that mechanical soldier Tik Tok was a “R2-D2 ripoff.” Damn dude, Tik Tok was in the original OZ books! He predates R2-D2 and C3PO by 60+ years!
* Grew up not only an Oz fan, but John Carter as well…
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@Mino: That’s easy, Mitt will say he was only the titular head of the Olympic committee and he was to busy running Bain like it says on the SEC forms.
jake the snake
The most sad and telling thing is that the Fan trailer is about 10K times as cool as the Disney trailer.
To me, Burroughs’ Mars books deserved a better film than John Carter, and I liked I liked the movie pretty well.
I thought Woola was too cute. Woola was portrayed in the books as nightmare with the soul of a Cocker Spaniel.
Also, I did not understand changing Tars Tarkas into a wimp.
In the books, Tars Tarkas was the 2nd baddest badass on Barsoom.
I was glad that they drained most of the Victorain sensability endemic to the books out of the movie.
RSA
@Uncle Cosmo:
Let’s see… From Gray Lensman:
Sounds QX to me.
Brachiator
@Anne Laurie:
No, the movie tanked because it was a crappy movie. And about the only people who keep on about the crappy marketing work for Hollywood marketing departments and foolishly believe in their powers to manipulate movie audiences.
“Prometheus” had one of the best marketing campaigns ever, but the movie still underperformed because viewers were underwhelmed with the inconsistent plotting and dumb characters.
Many critics liked John Carter, and the knowledgable ones pointed out how much later heroes owe to these stories. But the plain fact is that Superman, Batman, the Star Wars protagonists and even Flash Gordon and Buck Rogers have totally supplanted John Carter in contemporary popular imagination. Nobody cares if ERB has been mined by later writers. People just know that they love Superman, who by the way in the first stories seemed to have fantastic leaping ability, not the power of flight.
BTW, Tarzan seems to be fading from the popular consciousness, and of relatively ancient characters, only Sherlock Holmes, Dracula and the Wizard of Oz seem to have any staying power.
And although some of us grew up in a pre-Lucas world, we are all living in a post-Lucas and Spielberg universe.
That said, it is cool to see John Carter fans working so creatively to keep the flame going.
Uncle Cosmo
@RSA:
De gustibus & all that, but– Dog save us from the verb-deaf…
(Actually “QX” is IMHO the cleverest bit of verbiage in the series–a sneaky but plausible transmogrification of “OK” over several hundred years & at least one mother of a world war…)
Anne Laurie
@FourTen:
Not to defend Burroughs‘ social ethics, but there’s an argument to be made that John Carter knows just how terrible an idea the Confederacy was. The film, apart from the goshwow, is about a man whose mind broke after his family was murdered in that ‘noble cause’. At the beginning, Carter is violently resisting his recruitment into the new, improved Federal campaign of genocide against the Native American nations. At the end, Carter is desperate to get back to Barsoom because he wants to prevent another great nation from destroying itself through xenophobia, machismo, and greed.
OpalSky 42
When the Burroughs’ books were reprinted by Ace and Ballentine in the 60s my dad bought ALL of them and I read them all with the same joy I’d feel at going through a box of See’s fine chocolates. Of all the series (Tarzan, Mars, Venus, etc) his Mars books were my favorite. Despite the dreadful PR, the movie was fantastic! The CGI is finally good enough to give us Tharks, throats, and calots (I loved Woola!) that looked and felt real. I don’t think a lot of movie critics understand that not every movie must be deep, meaningful, confusing and/or done by Woody Allen. We saw the movie twice at the theater and we’re going to get the DVD this week. I can only hope to have a sequal.