(Mike Luckovich via GoComics.com)
Noam Scheiber at TNR predicts the latest attempt to hold the economy hostage will not go well for the GOP:
The year 1996, the last time the GOP took its toys and went home rather than fund the government, hasn’t loomed so large in Washington since it actually was 1996. Democrats, the media, and a not insignificant number of Republicans are convinced the looming shutdown will be just as disastrous for today’s GOP as the previous one was for Newt Gingrich’s. Meanwhile, the Tea Partiers in the House, at whose behest the shutdown is being instigated, have spent the weekend insisting this time will be different because … well, the why isn’t entirely clear, but it has something to do with the fact that Obamacare is involved.
There is, of course, much to be said for the 1996 analogy given that it’s our most recent example. But I’d argue that the more relevant case study is the payroll tax fight of late 2011, which involved the same players as today, the same internecine Republican dynamics (Tea Partiers versus Speaker John Boehner and a number of Senate Republicans), and the same media environment. The bad news for Republicans is that 2011 was every bit the rout 1996 was—arguably much more so. Republicans were able to hold out for a respectable 21 days back then. The 2011 fight was over in 48 hours…
Baud
al-Qaida: If only we had thought to provide Americas with access to health insurance, we could have really terrorized them.
raven
Morning Joe is a bit more interesting without Joe and Mika!
Schlemizel
I read a piece about the fist fights you occasionally see in the legislature in Taiwan, Venezuela and a couple other places. It seems nobody is serious about them & all is forgotten once they are over because nobody really means it. They pull these stunts from time to time simply to prove to the voters how serious they are in their fight for what the voters want. They are not really a fight but just a show to make the public think they are doing all they can. Apparently the voters eat that shit up.
I see a parallel in motivation but would much prefer the physical violence against other members instead of the economic violence against the nation.
billgerat
Roger Simon has a really good article up on Politico that’s worth a read. Down column there is another article on how the regular GOP is getting really pissed about extreme conservative funding.
The Revolution always eats its children.
geg6
@billgerat:
Roger Simon and “good article” are two concepts that cannot exist together. But if it’s a Republicans in disarray article, I might be willing to make an exception.
raven
@Schlemizel: I understand the same thing is true about “demonstrations” in South Korea. They are all planned out and the demonstrators even use “fire bombs” that look lethal but really are not.
billgerat
@geg6: It is.
fka AWS
@billgerat: Agreed. Good article, even if it’s on Politiho.
WereBear
@geg6: Ya’ll please describe, because I no canna’ click on Politico.
Baud
@WereBear:
I like the principled stand.
PurpleGirl
NY1 asked a couple of people on the street about the potential shut-down. Most of them complained about Republicans and how they are not doing the work they were elected to do. One man mouthed the talking point about President Obama not wanting to negogiate and why won’t he do what he was elected to do. (There’s always at least one idiot in the bunch.)
JPL
The Republican party is redefining itself. A faux libertarian faction is fighting for control and they might win. The politico article was nothing more than the Bush/Christi faction paying off Simon, to write an article painting Cruz and others as extremists.
Valdivia
@billgerat:
it really really is. no both sides bs. I am impressed.
fka AWS
@WereBear: The ending of the article:
Bill E Pilgrim
The degree to which this somehow doesn’t translate into “Vote for a Republican = Destroy the country” continues to astonish me.
I know, I know gerrymandering, blah blah blah. All true. Also our press corpse with its insistence on dividing the truth equally between whatever the two major political parties are saying, like children measuring Kool-aid into two glasses to make sure no one gets too much of it.
Also did you know why it’s called gerrymandering?
WereBear
@fka AWS: Thank you all very much, and I’m amazed.
Republicans noticing madness? In their own ranks?
Is this the Sixth Seal?
JPL
@PurpleGirl: I wonder if that man has children.
fka AWS
@WereBear: It certainly shows that there’s dissent within the GOBP about what’s happening. Whether they can do anything to stop it is another issue entirely. And yes, when Politiho is calling you out, something has seriously gone off the rails.
Botsplainer
The dog sulked most of yesterday after his training. He kept looking at me while we were there, and not only did I stand silently while refusing to save him from the torture of a control collar and assertive commands, I also joined in! And to make matters worse, I continued the torture for a couple of periods in the afternoon and evening!
The best part was that during our walk, I released him from training a couple of times, and whenever I did, he displayed his rebellion by trying to control the leash. Each time, we went straight back to training mode.
I had to roll around on the floor and play with him for a bit to bring him out of his sulk. The little guy does have quite a bit of spirit and backbone.
Bill E Pilgrim
@WereBear: There may be something weird and inverted going on, namely that while the self-professed non-partisan pundits like Chuck Todd and David Gregory continue the basic Villager “both sides must be at fault…. must invent Democratic extremism to point at..” recitations, the actual more or less declared Republican pundits are starting to openly criticize the extremists in their party, as they watch in horror as they eat them alive.
I think maybe the moral is that no, you still can’t actually blame Republicans without “balancing” it by blaming Democrats, but if you’re only blaming the “extremists”, then it’s okay because that means that it’s not really the Republican party, just a bunch of nuts. Which means that once you start you better go all out and make them sound as crazy as you can, to make it clear that they’re not “the Republican Party” because that would violate rule number one.
Just a theory, of course. It’s my theory, and it’s mine.
JGabriel
If the GOP goes through with shutdown and/or debt default, I think Democrats and the President should use it to their advantage: use it to demand that the House Republicans agree to the end of the sequester.
Seriously*, once Republicans have screwed the economy, particularly with a debt default, there’s no going back. The public’s ire will fall on the GOP like an Acme Safe on Wile E. Coyote. At that point they will be begging us to let them push through a clean CR.
So let’s use that to argue, “Well, now that you guys have thoroughly buggered the economy — again — we’ll need another stimulus to jump start it. We can discuss the details of that later, but for now, at the very least, you need to get rid of the sequester so it doesn’t hold us back during our recovery from your globally monumental fuck-ups.”
If for no other reason, just think how much fun it’ll be to watch Tea Party heads explode when the tables get turned on them.
(*Okay, honestly, I’m only half-serious.)
.
debbie
@JPL:
I heard a bit of Cruz this morning. He insists he is not interested in repealing Obamacare, he only wants to defund it. I wouldn’t have thought anything could top Clinton’s “What is, is,” but I stand corrected.
What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?
But I’m listening to NPR this morning that they can’t figure out who is more to blame. Everything is so confusing for the news organization that claims “the mind is our medium.” Maybe if their slogan was “the mind is our XXL” they’d be able to figure out where to cast blame. Instead, with their medium sized minds, they just play sound bites from Democrats and Republicans blaming each other and throw up their hands – who can tell? Both sides do it.
Bill E Pilgrim
@What Have the Romans Ever Done for Us?: They never have any problem figuring out who to blame when it’s Democrats, or even more to the point, hippies of any kind.
A friend wrote in a panic during the election, because “Even NPR thinks that Romney is going to win!” “Even NPR?” was my response. They don’t call them Nice Polite Republicans for nothing.
cvstoner
A black swan event is when the unthinkable happens…
geg6
@billgerat:
I got out of the boat and…well, damn. I didn’t think he had it in him. Even to build his boyfriend’s, the Jersey Whale, 2016 cred, that’s a pretty amazingly scathing article, especially for Simon. The Village worm may be turning.
JPL
@debbie: Yesterday he said he did not compare, those in favor of Obamacare, to Nazi sympathizers.
IowaOldLady
My MSNBC headline today is about a Kaiser Foundation poll showing how confused people are about the ACA. One guy in the article is a 55 year old lawyer who says the law is “illegal” and he’s not signing up. Sigh. The Supreme Court begs to differ Mr. Lawyer.
I’ve concluded guys like that are good for getting my blood pumping, but it’s useless to talk to them. In the next couple of months, it’s much better to try to help the people who genuinely need information.
Ash Can
@fka AWS: That’ll leave a mark.
Either our Villagers is learnin’, or the big-money guys are getting the word out that the Teahadis are going too far; go ahead and start calling them out.
Botsplainer
@JGabriel:
You make the error that we’re dealing with rational people. We’re not – we’re dealing with ideologues who happen to also be nihilists, their ideology formed by radio and TV propagandists who dropped out of college, whose propaganda is funded by the ever increasing share of national wealth that the 1% commands and is directed toward poisoning the national dialogue via Citizens United.
I grow increasingly distressed at the percentage of support these jackasses command – National Socialism claimed similar numbers, and they were handed control of the German government.
Linda Featheringill
Roger Simon:
Damn, Roger! That is one hell of an article. Right on! Represent!
Suffern ACE
@debbie: so basically he wants to balloon the deficit by repealing the tax.
So how is he not Bush III?
SiubhanDuinne
@Bill E Pilgrim:
And what it is, too.
debbie
@JPL:
And yet, there’s that pesky videotape…
SiubhanDuinne
@billgerat:
Thanks for the recommendation…
@fka AWS:
…and the link.
Excellent piece by Roger Simon. Is popcorn a breakfast food?
Matt McIrvin
@Bill E Pilgrim: I live right under the throat of the original Gerrymander. The Congressional districts today are just as weird-looking as that, though the shapes are different.
Matt McIrvin
I’ve seen people opining online that this is all just more proof that you can’t entrust health care to the government, because if you do its political opponents will just be out to kill it. The old heckler’s veto.
Poopyman
Another reason to shed those tears:
Elizabelle
Monday, Monday …
Deposit the trash and recycling curbside; pick up newspaper in its plastic sleeve; it’s damp — morning dew.
Get inside — what is that on my hands?
The strong scent of dog urine, permeating the newspaper sleeve and now on my hands, despite several washings and generous application of lavender-scented hand deodorizer.
Thanks neighborhood dog, on your morning rounds.
I think I’m starting to smell the lavender more now …
greennotGreen
@Botsplainer: I don’t think the majority of Tea Partiers are nihilists, although I do agree that they aren’t rational. They’re people who don’t understand cause and effect. They eat food that’s generally safe because of government regulations, they take medicines that were developed because of government-sponsored research, and they read right-wing blogs on the government-invented internet, but for them, none of these things have anything to do with the federal government. To their minds, the only thing that happens during a government shutdown is the feds can’t waste any more of their tax dollars.
Meanwhile, I’m watching the strictures brought on by the sequester erode the once-great private institution where I work and which is largely supported by federal research grants. Teahadists, you want a cure for cancer? Tell it to the Koch brothers.
Punchy
I love how the Media just now discovers the nutfuckery goings on in the House, because doing so gets them additional eyeballs on their TV stations. As if they’ve been sane and reasonable all along, and only now have gone all man bites dog.
I expect Todd Chuck to tell me that this is all the fault of Senator Franken, because of curly hair and the lack of his stand-up….comity.
JGabriel
@Botsplainer:
Ah, but I don’t make that error. I completely expect that argument to make the Teahadist’s heads explode, as I said right there in the comment.
The rational part of my argument is for the benefit of everyone else.
schrodinger's cat
The Republicans truly believe like Karl Rove said in an interview that they control reality. If we default, the currency swap markets could completely collapse, a market that it is about 10 times bigger than the credit default swap market. 2008 will look like a picnic and even the Fed and the Treasury may not be able to save us.
Jay C
@greennotGreen:
And I’m guessing that, if one polled a representative sample of Tea Baggers, a large majority of them, if asked to specify “waste”, would immediately answer something to do with “welfare”: racial epithets optional.
someofparts
Thing is, they have gerrymandered a lot more districts since the last debacle. Maybe they’re trying the same game again because they calculate that they have rigged the voting districts to such an extent that the negative reactions to their policies will have no voting booths at which to express their displeasure.
mericafukyea
Jesus fuck. It’s like groundhog day. Have all you people gotten long term memory loss along with the media. This is the EXACT same fucking thing Repugs did last time pushing it to the very last minute before delaying the shutdown for another 6months or whatever so they can do it all over again and raise more campaign funds or try squeeze some concessions out of dems.
So can we please stop talking about this like ….”omgzzzz I think they are like totally gonna do it so let’s circle jerk over it….AGAIN”
Can any of you people google?
gnomedad
I hope Obama uses the phrases “holding the country hostage”, “economic terrorists”, and “attempted coup” a lot.
weaselone
@Poopyman:
Translation: These firms bet big against US Treasuries in anticipation of the Fed ending its bond buying program. Hurry, let’s write an article that obscures this by insinuating that the Fed is somehow responsible for these traders losing their shirts.
LittlePig
@WereBear: Right there with ya.
IowaOldLady
Much anger at Congress at the Y this morning, though it was aimed at silly stuff. “Congress doesn’t have to pay for their own health insurance.” “Congress gets paid anyway even if the govt shuts down.”
elftx
After 30+ yrs they suddenly realize there are rabid dogs in their beds? Idjuts !
Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism
Tossing out a bit of good news: The U.S. Department of Justice will file a lawsuit Monday to stop North Carolina’s new voter ID law
LittlePig
I was enjoying the New Republic piece until I hit the line
The writers on National Review’s influential blog The Corner
Oy. It had been such happy news until that point.
LittlePig
@someofparts: Leave us not forget that Gerry along with George Mason *really* thought this Bill Of Rights thing was not optional. He’s a bit of a mixed bag, but none the less a shore-nuff Founding Father, and not just the recipient of an especially well targeted illustration.
lol
@someofparts:
Gerrymandering doesn’t make your party’s seats safer; it gives you a greater number of seats that are less safe. The other party’s seats are untouchable because you’ve crammed all their voters into 80%-90% districts.
When times are good, you have more seats than you normally would get. When times are bad, you don’t have any safe seats to fall back on.
Tone in DC
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism:
I like it.
Those g00pers down there have driven past Crazed, through Insane and are on the way to Truly Fucked Up. That’s the last exit on that road. Hopefully DoJ will put that clown car in reverse.
Matt McIrvin
@mericafukyea: They didn’t do it because they WON last time. Obama tried to negotiate as if they were acting in good faith, and they got the sequester, which is slowly squeezing the life out of public institutions.
If Democrats keep making those concessions, the House Republicans effectively rule the country unopposed, simply by attaching demands to the debt ceiling. Either this time or the next time or the time after that, presumably Democrats will have had enough, and will refuse to negotiate. And then the Republicans will either pull the trigger, or they won’t. I don’t have sufficient confidence that they won’t in that situation. The Tea Partiers generally actively want a default.
Matt McIrvin
…Consider also: They have it in their power to create a situation in which right-wing economic dogma is actually true. Austrian economics fans are constantly talking about federal debt and spending causing hyperinflation and sky-high interest rates. Those things have failed to materialize.
But if the US defaults, some of this stuff could actually happen. They could produce the nightmare so they can point to it and claim Obama caused it, just like they predicted. The drive to be right is a powerful one.
Ben Cisco
@Sister Rail Gun of Warm Humanitarianism: Awww yeah – it’s time for some ass-whoopin’!
Been waiting on this – Art Pope and PuppetPal Pat McCrony are going to shit cinderblocks over this one…
Ripley
Don’t tase me, bro.
Gene108
@Bill E Pilgrim:
I think Republican criticism of their own is about saving themselves come election time.
My mom is in NC and the hardcore Republicans in her office loath McCrory and the NC legislature.
Talking about drowning government in a bath tub is all fun and games until “real” people start getting hurt by the lack of services.
StringOnAStick
@fka AWS: All the “good article” statements got my attention, so I read it even if Simon and Politiho generally suck. Huh; good article.
I think it indicates something more than just a crazy/not-crazy split in the GOP; it indicates a split between the 1% and the 0.01%. The Kochs and their fellows want this shut down, and they want a default, and don’t tell me they will pull back because it will hurt their income – if that was their concern they would have already yanked on the collective choke chain. They are both rich enough and ideological enough to want to see the culmination of their many years of ‘investing’ in US politics, and if it takes an economic crash to get there, well, they are better positioned than anyone to first ride it out, and then take over what remains in the ashes.
Simon is merely mouthing the concerns of those who are wealthy, but not wealthy enough to survive what the Kochs and the rest are willing to unleash, and Simon’s cohort is starting to figure out that they will be sacrificed for the larger goal. He wasn’t planning on that happening; like every lackey for the rich, he thought he was in the club for good, instead of just temporarily tolerated for his usefulness to the overall plan.