[Warning: Continuous Autoplay]
I’m sure a myriad of Very Serious People are groping for their fainting couches, but I like Feisty Hillary. And I suspect I’m not alone!
From the Time article:
… The exchange came during a Clinton campaign event in Purchase, New York, where a group of pro-Sanders protestors began chanting, “if she wins, we lose.” As they left the auditorium, Clinton’s rebuttal came quickly. “I know the Bernie people came to say that,” Clinton said, “we’re very sorry you’re leaving.”…
Clinton exhorted them to listen to her message as well as Sanders’. “What I regret is they don’t want to listen to anybody else,” Clinton said. “What I regret is they don’t want to hear the contrast between my experience my plans my vision my plans what I know I can get done and what my opponent is promising.”…
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Also very nice political work:
Oh snap. From this afternoon's Politico Daily Blast… pic.twitter.com/UthCVsEppu
— AlGiordano (@AlGiordano) March 31, 2016
Kropadope
Continuous autoplay? It’s not even showing up in my browser.
Mnemosyne
The one downside of the late-night squad is that I seem to be the last remaining woman tonight. That means that my lament that my new cleanser didn’t make me break out until AFTER I bought the expensive full-size bottle will fall on deaf ears. Sadness.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Imagine the outcry and scandal if unconnected supporters of Clinton tried to shut down a Sanders rally.
Frankensteinbeck
@Mnemosyne:
Wow, that’s incredibly annoying. I’m sure plenty of men here have to do their own cleaning, and would like non-hideous and scratchy hands.
Kropadope
@Mnemosyne: That’s awful. Took me ages figure out what to use to deal with my particular mix of dry skin and acne-proneness. I became very brand-loyal once I did.
cckids
@Mnemosyne: Well, I’ll de-lurk to sympathize, and share my sad lady story of the day; my new, fairly pricey bra, after wearing it 2+ hours, rubs a raw spot on my back. Sucks.
ruemara
@Mnemosyne: you’re not. And I feel for you. Last month, my usual cleanser kept burning my eyelids(!). I had to switch to Bragg’s.
Anne, I can’t say I blame you. I thought Sanders would be the better candidate but struggle with the votes. Mea culpa, I was wrong on both counts.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Neo-Cons are freaking out over Trump’s proposal that Saudi Arabia develop nuclear bombs.
Mnemosyne
@Frankensteinbeck:
Ahem. Face cleanser. :-)
Steeplejack
@Kropadope:
Neither in Firefox on my computer nor in Chrome on my Android phone.
Steeplejack
Probably too late to mention it, but what the hell, for the insomniacs: Jules Dassin’s excellent noir caper film Rififi (1955) is coming up on TCM at 3:45 a.m. EDT. Slightly weird American trailer here.
I’m hoping that TCM will run the French version with subtitles. I think that’s how it was last time.
Mnemosyne
@cckids:
Yeah, that’s always fun to find out when you’re at work and can’t change. I have a cartoon by a female cartoonist that describes the worst scourge of all: day-long panty angst.
@Kropadope:
There is one (1) cleanser that consistently works for me, made by Ilike, but it has to be special ordered because it’s organic. It works great when I have it, though, and doesn’t make my rosacea flare.
@ruemara:
Cetaphil makes my skin burn. CETAPHIL! It was very disheartening. Apparently my skin is a dirty hippie at heart, because it only likes organic ingredients, and not too many of them.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
–
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
Hey, we can relate. Brutes though we may be, we have problems with shaving creams/gels, razors, shampoos, etc.
Steeplejack
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Wait, what?
I think I’ll leave that for tomorrow.
Mnemosyne
@Steeplejack:
The spouse still uses bar soap. Sigh. At least his barber finally convinced him to use conditioner.
I’m checking with him to see if we have MeTV. If so, he would love a Bobby Troup alert for “Perry Mason.”
Mnemosyne
Also, for the ladies, I’ll do a pitch for True & Co.. They’re like Zappos for bras — free shipping and free returns. Plus you fill out a quiz before you buy and it directs you to the styles they think will fit best.
Steeplejack
@Mnemosyne:
I hope the sigh is for using bar soap as shampoo. Because otherwise I have to admit that I still use bar soap for body cleaning, either good old Dial—eek! (probably)—or Thé Vert from Trader Joe’s, which I like for the smell.
Mnemosyne
@Frankensteinbeck:
However, I will take pity on you and tell you what the best moisturizer for dry hands is: Aveeno Eczema Therapy. It’s the only one I’ve found that doesn’t irritate my hands worse than when I started, and they have it at any drugstore.
One caveat — it does contain oatmeal, in case you’re allergic. Which one of my coworkers is, because she has strange allergies.
Eric U.
@Mnemosyne: I have Aveeno daily moisturizing, and it’s working fairly well. Amazon had it for about half of what the drugstore wanted.
Steeplejack
I just listened again to Nat King Cole’s version of “Route 66” that I posted downstairs, and now I’ve gone down the YouTube music hole. Dinah Washington’s take on “Cry Me a River” is awesome, and she starts it by asking, “Do you want me to sound like Julie London?” Synchronicity!
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: Sadness indeed. Can you return it?
I’ve just arrived. Trying to figure out a route from Lake Arrowhead to Yuma to Seattle that doesn’t make me stabby. That route through the dunes East of San Diego makes me nuts, but it’s probably the fastest and safest.
opiejeanne
@Mnemosyne: Thank you. I will try that . I really should buy a couple of new bras.
hamletta
@Mnemosyne: Have you tried Paula’s Choice? Their stuff is really nice, and it’s not too expensive. They have samples, too.
Also, Korea is Ground Zero of skin care. If you have an H-Mart nearby, you can get some good shit there. It’ll probably have some far out ingredients, like slug slim—I mean, snail extract. But some of that stuff is amazing, and at drugstore prices!
starscream
Bernie is lucky she’s barely attacked him. His whole candidacy is built on the myth that he’s the only honest person in politics. All you’d have to do is bring up his support for gun manufacturers, the F-35 nonsense, how he once had antiwar protesters arrested, the Martha’s Vineyard “Majority Trust” fundraising, how he lied about why he voted against immigration, etc and it all falls apart fairly quickly.
cckids
@Mnemosyne: Nice. Thank you!
amk
Good for her. Enough with the mollycoddling and walking on egg shells around bs fans. If she wins, she will become the prez. If she loses, she will move on to other and better things.
TheMightyTrowel
@Mnemosyne: i wish they existed in Australia! I’m also sensitive skinned – most cleansers male me break or in this horrifying rash of tiny whiteheads. I can’t use soaps with artificial scents so laundry soap, dish soap etc are all special brands. I morally just use pure olive oil soap on my skin – about the only thing that works consistently. I get it from a lady on etsy for half supermarket prices.
opiejeanne
@starscream: A friend mentioned Bernie and guns on Twitter and was attacked by a rabid group of Bernie fans. It was as if they didn’t know about his history and kept calling her a liar.
Someone else tonight, after witnessing a flock of them ranting at the same person, said they aren’t really trying to change our minds, just trying to silence us. It’s like the GamerGate crowd.
normal liberal
@Mnemosyne:
I feel you pain. I just got several elements of a multi-step regimen that is not the holy grail,I was hoping for. Fortunately I ordered trial sizes, but even they were not cheap.
Can you take the cleanser back, or was this some exotic brand only sold on alternate Tuesdays under a new moon? I’m always amazed that it’s possible to return opened packages, but I gather it’s become common.
Anne Laurie
@opiejeanne:
There’s been suggestions that some of those yappers are part of the GamerGate crowd — either ratfvcking for Trump, or honestly convinced that Bernie is the Last True Alpha Male holding back Hillary’s SJWs.
normal liberal
@Mnemosyne:
Thanks for the bra source tip. Buying those things is always a trial.
I especially feel your pain on the rosacea. I tried a bunch of the Ilike stuff, but I have two words on this topic – Evan Healy. Even her most aggressive cleanser is usable for me, which is helpful in the summer.
dollared
@opiejeanne: @opiejeanne: So, you’re coming to Seattle? Are we going to arrange a meetup?
Darkrose
@Mnemosyne: Nope. I hear you.
Where did you buy it? Sephora has an amazing return policy. As long as you keep the original packaging and receipt, you can return most things after using some. I tried some foundation that just didn’t work for me and I returned it for a refund, no questions asked.
opiejeanne
@Anne Laurie: They’ve been using that term, SJW’s, sneering, and generally being asses. Joan Walsh from The Nation is one of the ones being attacked, Karoli from Crooks and Liars is another. It’s pretty ugly to watch.
There was a woman today who was terribly uninformed and who tried to impress us because SHE had run for office before (Yeah, I was president of the PTA too) kept insisting that the primaries are better for Sanders and the caucuses favored Hillary. Had it completely backwards. Then she started ranting that if more of the primaries had been open ones that Bernie would have won, and actually said that if Hillary didn’t have more votes that Bernie would be ahead right now.
When I pointed out just who would have been voting for Bernie in those open primaries, Republicans, she blocked me. The best bit, though, was when she tried to insist that closed primaries are undemocratic because everyone doesn’t get to vote, and that primaries are national elections. Everyone corrected her on that, but gently.
Darkrose
@Mnemosyne: Have you ever tried Eminence? It’s a Hungarian skin care brand with natural ingredients, sold on Amazon. They’re not cheap, but they last a long time. My skin has started breaking out in the last couple of years–yay perimenopause!–and I’ve tried a bunch of stuff, but Eminence is the best so far.
opiejeanne
@dollared: I live in Seattle. I’ve been to several meet-ups, one of them not too long ago (February?). You must have missed the announcement, somehow.
I have to go to California and then to Yuma, and then back home. A lot of the part from SoCal to Yuma is unpleasant.
Nicole
@hamletta: I was about to suggest Paula’s Choice, too!
@Mnemosyne: I second hamletta’s suggestion. I also have rosacea, and find their stuff gentle and also still feel like my skin is clean. And their returns policy is great. Hell, they even got me using toner and with my dry skin I never thought that would happen. On the website you can list rosacea, sensitive skin, etc. and filter the products down to what you need.
dollared
@opiejeanne: Got it. For some reason I thought you were in Nashville and just visit. Now that I think back 5 years, I recall that you live near the sculpture garden. Is that right?
I missed February – kid conflict.
And you’re so right about southern AZ to the Sierra. Yuck.
opiejeanne
@dollared: No, I live on the east side, in Woodinville.
Lake Arrowhead is in the San Bernardino mountains about 70 miles east of LA, just up the mountain from San Bernardino, not exactly near the Sierras.
Botsplainer, Cryptofascist Tool of the Oppressor Class
@Mnemosyne:
I rarely use cleanser – I find it tends to destroy the finish on anything I apply it to (same with SOS pads). Usually, I’ll use Tilex Mold and Mildew remover (heavy duty chlorine bleach) and a heavier grade plastic fiber/sponge dish pad along with muscle to get it done.
Kathleen
@Mnemosyne: I just popped on! Too late I’m sure, but I wanted to represent for us gals.
dollared
@Anne Laurie: Sigh. If you guys could hear yourselves. This really isn’t a gender war. It’s about the difference between a Democratic Socialist and a Centrist Democrat.
It’s about the simple question: is shit broken? And the difference in age matters. There’s many fewer reasons to prefer the leftmost option if your path to retirement is clear. And if you’re 30, and you’re going to have to pay some thoughtless yuppie 3X value for an overpriced home, on a salary that hasn’t tracked to real estate inflation for 30 years, with no strong economic prospects for your generation, you’re going to be really impatient with the comfortable totebagging NPR listeners. And yup, some of those people are angry, and some of them are not very experienced at politics.
And no, they are not ratfucking Trump supporters. What fucking stupidity. They have legitimate concerns and legitimate anger, and pretending that they are Trump supporters is an assertion that specifically shows how fucking tone deaf (some) Hillary supporters are.
There are stupid people on both sides. And there are bigots – no, chauvinists – on both sides.
You’re proof of that tonight.
Kathleen
@Steeplejack: Showtime featured a fascinating documentary about nat King Cole and the discrimination he faced in his career and personal life (when he and his family moved into a wealthy LA neighborhood). What a talent. He made it look so easy.
JPL
This is an important reminder to the fine folks on this site. It’s April Fools Day.
Davebo
@JPL: Are you kidding?
OzarkHillbilly
@dollared:
Wrong question. The right question is “Who is most able to fix at least some of the broken shit?” When I voted in the primary I ended up voting for Hillary. The reason was pretty simple. While I like a lot of what Bernie says, I do not see any viable path for him to accomplish hardly any of the things he is promising. Not in this country, not at this time.
Aimai
@dollared: i laughed and applauded the “is shit broken” line at first but later i realized how stupidly reductionist it is. Shit is not broken. Lots of things work and some things dont and parts are hurting snd there is no one size fits all answer. Governance is complicated. Unexpected events and crises will test the future president. Some of us dont think bernie has the temperament or the chops to handle it. No bigotry–what. A stupid misuse of the term–just a reasoned choice.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@dollared:
Sanders is going to adjust home prices? How?
Dollared, why are you still in the U.S.? You told us years ago of your dream is to live in socialist Cuba. Now it’s possible. Better move fast, before those yuppies you hate buy up all the good properties.
Applejinx
@Aimai:
…
Shit IS broken.
Crises are not unexpected.
From the velocity of money dropping to nil due to rent-seeking capitalists winning absolutely everything, to climate change blowing past all expectations, to the increasing chaos of the climate bringing us unprecedented weather events on a regular basis with steadily increasing violence, to the Republican party switching over to outright sabotage, all this is not only predictable but happening, and worsening.
Shit is broken. Let’s see your Hillary address that and show she has some idea of what she’s so hot to take on. I’m prepared to look at the argument that Bernie will not accomplish a blessed thing of all the stuff he’s clamoring about. Let’s see Hillary even go to the trouble of lying about her willingness to try.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@dollared:
Ya know, Bill de Blasio ran in part on the high price of rent in NYC and he promised he would fix it and you could trust him cuz he was a radical card carrying Sandinista, who had traveled extensively through communist Russia as a student.
And here we are in the middle of his 3rd year in office and rent is at an all time high and construction luxury building continues unabated.
You guys are as bad as the republicans with your unicorns.
satby
@Mnemosyne: @Steeplejack: ; OMFG, you guys. You do know I make soap right? Olive oil based, mostly organic, started because I have both rosacea AND eczema (neither of which flare up any more).
Dial? (Spits)
satby
@hamletta: And a confession, I discovered Korean BB cream a bit ahead of when it got popular here in the States, and on the rare occasions that I wear anything like makeup, that’s my go-to stuff. It neutralizes some of the Irish pink that make me look perpetually flushed.
JanieM
@satby: I’m glad I skimmed to the end of this thread and followed your link to Skinluvvers. May use it, and will pass it on to someone I know who very much wants this kind of product.
I was also going to mention SW Basics, which my daughter has introduced me to. I love their cream, but they have a cleanser too. Their stuff isn’t cheap, but it lasts a long time.
MomSense
@Mnemosyne:
I second Hamletta’s Paula’s Choice recommendation. She has a Line for rosacae.
msdc
@dollared:
I was going to comment on the appropriateness of telling women to ignore their experiences dealing with harassment, but you opened by typing the word “sigh” so that changes everything.
How interesting! Could you by any chance direct me to a meme on this subject?
And you’re a fine representative of your candidate and his online supporters. I mean that most sincerely.
Thank You For Your Concern.
bemused
I recently discovered Lumene skin care made from cloudberries, a Finnish company and like what I have tried so far, a day creme with spf 15, 360 eye cream and BB Creme spf 20 which comes in light and medium shade. They even offer mascara. Ulta.com carries some of their products.
satby
@MomSense: went to look, and Paula’s Choice doesn’t list ingredients. I suggest to a lot of people to look for petrochemical ingredients and avoid them (detergents in most soap and cleansers, mineral oil, petrolatum, etc) and that may give people relief from skin problems. Those ingredients cause big problems for me, and they’re in most commercial and prescription skin products. And all the companies that use them swear they’re non-reactive, but my skin says otherwise. One well know sensitive skin product for “redness relief” actually gave me a first degree burn reaction. I was peeling for days.
Edited to add, when people actually follow that advice they normally see improvements. Doesn’t have to be my stuff, just try to eliminate that junk.
Michele421
@TheMightyTrowel: @satby: @Mnemosyne:
@Steeplejack:
Another option for skin care is Rodan + Fields, the line by the same dermatologists behind Proactiv. It’s multi med therapy, specific regimens for anti aging needs, sensitive skin, acne shaving burns and prevention, and dark marks. It comes with a 60 day, empty bottle, money back guarantee, and we are headed to Australia this summer @TheMightyTrowel.
I am a longtime Balloon Juice reader / lurker, before Lily joined John’s family. I am also a Rodan + Fielda consultant, so you would be helping a fellow BJ’er if you wanted to chat further. Or check my website – should be embedded in my name.
MomSense
@satby:
Your stuff is the best. Time to order. Your fragrance (body lotion) is so nice and did not cause a break out at all. I think you use essential oils so it isn’t chemical fragrance.
different-church-lady
@dollared: Calling a woman a guy is a really good way to kick off a comment denying there’s any gender issues at hand.
different-church-lady
@opiejeanne:
No, it’s not even that. They just enjoy being loudmouth know-it-alls. Whether you talk, and what you say, is immaterial, as long as they’re telling you that they’re right and you’re wrong.
different-church-lady
@Applejinx:
I’m quite convinced Hillary is just going to lounge on the White House divan all day long and eat bonbons.
different-church-lady
Just in general I have a guiding principle: anyone who says, “It’s very simple” is trying to sell you a line.
satby
@MomSense: Thanks. I do use a lot of essential oils, but if someone wants a fragrance that isn’t available that way, the fragrance oils I use are also paraben and phthalate-free.
Really, if people have skin problems it can be a host of causes, but getting familiar with the petrochemical derivative names and then avoiding them makes a world of difference for a lot of people. Doesn’t have to be my stuff, just read labels and try eliminating petrochemical ingredients for a month and see if that helps.
satby
@different-church-lady: the line you quoted was really obnoxious. Applejinx has some reall issues with misogyny.
satby
@JanieM: let me know on Etsy and I can send samples.
MBunge
@OzarkHillbilly: “Who is most able to fix at least some of the broken shit?”
This gets at the real reason the young aren’t so hot for Hillary.
No, it’s not because of scandals that happened when they were in grade school. It’s because they’re sick of having an uninspiring, unimpressive and relatively unaccomplished candidate shoved down their throat by olds who can’t get over Bill Clinton being the only Democrat in their lives to win a dick-measuring contest with the GOP.
There is ZERO reason to believe that Hillary will be any more successful than Bernie at fixing anything. The greatest legislative achievement on her resume is one of the greatest failures in history 20 years ago on health care reform.
If you want the kids and the Bernie Bros to support Hillary, offer them something more than “shut up” and “Republicans! Run for your lives!”
Mike
yellowdog
@MBunge: The failure of health care reform 20 years ago was not on Clinton’s legislative resume because she held no office at the time. She was a First Lady who took a more active role in politics than any other FLOTUS before or since. Therefore she must be blamed for votes in Congress? Your CDS is showing.
msdc
@yellowdog: Not to mention I’m pretty sure everybody here can think of one other Democrat in their lives who beat the GOP. He is inspiring, he is impressive, he’s accomplished a hell of a lot (despite zero help from His Progressive Betters), and HRC is running to protect and expand his legacy.
different-church-lady
@satby: I dunno if the intent had anything to do with misogyny, but the implication that Hillary Clinton is lazy is just ridiculous on its face.
different-church-lady
@MBunge:
Every time this argument comes up, I think, “Well, then why should we vote for either one of them?”
BTW, the idea that someone who has been a lawyer, a US Senator, and a Secretary of State is “unaccomplished” is pretty silly.
satby
@different-church-lady: how about it. Never mind that a male with her credentials wouldn’t have his accomplishments questioned even by people who disagreed with his politics.
Bob In Portland
@OzarkHillbilly: And there Hillary loses too. You don’t fix Wall Street by taking their money. You don’t fix for-profit prison systems by getting a cut of the profits. You don’t stop wars by waging them. You don’t stop law-breaking by creating laws for people to break. If Clinton is nominated then there is no hope for reforming the Democratic Party.
Chyron HR
@MBunge:
If you “kids” are sincere in your desire to sit out the general election, then I’m sure it’s well beyond the ability of anyone here to fix your brain problems.
And if you’re doing the political equivalent of “Waaah I’m running away from home to join the circus” to get attention, then the correct response is “That’s nice, dear.”
So which is it?
Loviatar
@different-church-lady: / @satby:
MBunge is a semi-regular over at OTB. He is one of those Republicans/former Republicans who is hating the fact that they gave their party to the crazies. He is reluctantly coming to the realization he may have to vote for a democratic politician for president. He is stewed in retro 90’s news and feelings about the hated Clintons, surprisingly or maybe unsurprisingly he hates Hillary more than Bill. And as Kasich has not gained traction, he has decided Bernie Sanders is the one true way to stop Hillary.
Bob In Portland
@different-church-lady: Nice how the Mideast weapons deals she approved as SOS seemed to match donations from them to the Clinton Foundation.
She supported the contras. She supported the “regime change” in Haiti. Did she support the invasion of Grenada?
Bobby Thomson
@dollared: you’re a dipshit. No one said it was all his supporters. Some of his are racist. Some are misogynist. Some are gun humpers. Some backed Paul. Some are ratfuckers.
They’re a minority, but they definitely exist. Your denial of that says a lot about you.
Bob In Portland
@Chyron HR: You may not have noticed this, but Sanders has won six of the last seven primaries. Latest poll I saw has him winning Wisconsin and West Virginia. In Wisconsin black voters are supporting him by eleven points.
He consistently polls ahead of every Republican candidate.
Point is, it’s not just white kids. He’s also polling better with women. Not only white women (and men) making over 100K. The rest.
As far as who gets what after the election, I’m sure Clinton will triangulate a new TPP so that it looks better than it is. That’s not success in my book.
Loviatar
@Bob In Portland:
Can you explain why Sanders won’t commit to supporting Down-Ballot Democrats?
Sanders: ‘We’ll See’ If I Will Fundraise For Down-Ballot Democrats
Mnemosyne
@Darkrose:
Ilike, the stuff I use, is made by the founder of Eminence — she had some kind of dispute with them and left to start over. Even Eminance can make me break out, because I have the most annoying picky skin in the world.
JanieM
@satby: Will do!
ruemara
@MBunge: yeah because a guy who was a civil rights leader that no black people knew about and whose 30 years in politics had the tremendous laws of post office renamings and a few amendments; now that guy was a mover and a shaker.
@Bob In Portland: your lack of knowledge’s about open caucuses, closed primaries and the demographics of both, make your comment amusing.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Well, there is the whole thing about getting elected being the first step in, if not fixing everything, then holding back the hordes that want to shred the last eight years, starting with the USSC. Who knows what the general election map would like with Trump v Sanders, what kind of third-way no-labels plans they’d come up with, but I can easily imagine Rob Portman, Kelly Ayotte and other R’s salivating at the chance to tie their opponents to the Socialist who once called for abolishing the army.
You do a great job pushing back against the people who think you’re an addle-pated crank.
Monala
@Mnemosyne: everything labeled for sensitive skin makes me break out, including Cetaphil. An attempt to do what the baby magazines recommended and go natural when I was pregnant with my now almost 11 year old led me to start making my own, and I haven’t had problems since. I melt two tbsps of raw Shea butter and two tbsps of organic coconut oil in a saucepan on low heat. Remove from the stove and add two tbsps extra virgin olive oil and two tsps pure aloe vera. Whisk together, pour into a small glass jar, and place in refrigerator until set . After that I just keep it in my bathroom. I use this to moisturize my face morning and night, and rinse off with warm water.
This little jar lasts about a month. Best part is it’s super cheap to make. Trader Joe’s sells eevo and organic coconut oil for $6 for 32 oz and 16 oz jars, respectively. Super Supplements sells pure aloe gel for $8 for 32 oz. The Shea butter I have to buy online, $25 for 16 oz. Combining these supplies last about 8 months. That means I am spending $45 on moisturizer in 8 months.
something fabulous
@satby: Probably a dead thread by now, but here to testify! Your soaps just arrived. Tried the goats milk & oatmeal soap just this morning, and can’t stop petting my own face! I’m a combo platter as well, and finding something that suits all the different zones is a challenge. Bar is so nice, not chemical-y at all. So far so good!
Amaranthine RBG
@dollared: @Bob In Portland: heard this on the soshulist NPR so no link, but Sanders in exit polls has consistently won the black and Latino vote among YOUNG voters.
So it ain’t even a white thang.
It’s a contest between people who are thinking about the future versus those who just want to pull up the ladder behind them so they can prattle on about how their $1,200 haircut is totes reasonable.
Loviatar
@Amaranthine RBG:
Can you explain why Sanders won’t commit to supporting Down-Ballot Democrats?
Sanders: ‘We’ll See’ If I Will Fundraise For Down-Ballot Democrats
Bobby Thomson
@different-church-lady: other than, you know, that she actually helps congressional candidates in ways that don’t contribute to her campaign manager’s bottom line.
Tad Devine is another Armstrong Williams.
different-church-lady
@Bob In Portland:
Oh. Was that the goal of this election?
gwangung
@Loviatar: Honestly, I don’t see how that can be defended.
Part of the job of the President is to lead their party. If you’re lukewarm for raising money for folks who’ll push your agenda in office, don’t be surprised if you get lukewarm support in Congress.
(And THAT’S why Clinton will probably be better making deals in Congress–she’s going to have more political capital to start with in her own party—don’t be naive and think you don’t have to deal make within your own coalition).
Monala
@Amaranthine RBG: Do you have links for that? Because I’ve seen the opposite – that Clinton is winning among millennials of color, too, just by not as strong a margin as she is with older voters of colr.
gwangung
@Bob In Portland:
What bullshit.
Reforming is not a one-shot deal. Remaking the Democratic Party is an ongoing process.
AND YOU DON’T START FROM THE TOP DOWN. You go bottom up.
You’re just admitting you’re a lazy asshole who isn’t willing to put their effort behind their words.
Kay
@gwangung:
That isn’t how it always works, though. Clinton has the vast majority of Congressional endorsements. Of course she’s committed to campaigning for down-ballot Democrats. Huge numbers of them endorsed her.
I don’t think the assumption that Clinton’s support of down-ballot Democrats preceded down-ballot Democrats support of Clinton is the way it went. A majority of them endorsed her at the outset of her campaign. Maybe she would have supported them anyway, I don’t know- both Clintons campaign for Democrats but if she were in Sanders shoes and the majority of Congressional Democrats had endorsed him would she be singing their praises in her Presidential campaign? I don’t know- that isn’t what happened.
Monala
@Monala: For example, this article quotes an MSNBC poll from February showing that Clinton leads Sanders among African-American millennials 64-25.
MBunge
@Loviatar: MBunge is a semi-regular over at OTB.
I happen to think Obama is going to go down as one of the best Presidents of my lifetime and think the assumption that Hillary can follow him to be one of the biggest examples of “white privilege” out there.
I’m also worried about the delusional myth-making that surrounds Bill Clinton, a man who did more damage to the Democratic Party and liberalism than anyone in the last 50 years, and Hillary Clinton, a reasonably competent person with awful political skills and neocon-lite foreign policy instincts who is being handed the Democratic nomination on a silver platter.
It might not matter for the election because the GOP are slitting their own throats but politics needs to be about more than just beating the other tribe.
Mike
Monala
@Amaranthine RBG: And btw, I’m Gen X, but I care a lot about the future. I have a daughter, along with younger cousins, nieces and nephews. I care about their future.
J R in WV
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
If they really need them, they’ll just borrow or buy a few from the Pakistanis. Much quicker, less dangerous, cheaper.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@MBunge: being handed the Democratic nomination on a silver platter.
I was a lukewarm Clinton supporter, precisely because I worry about her foreign policy (and in the shorter term, her political skills), but this is such fucking bullshit. I don’t know why other candidates didn’t run, I don’t know why O’Malley–who on paper should have been the dream candidate of a good part of the liberal blogosphere– fell on his face. She isn’t being “handed” anything. She’s winning votes.
Too big a chance for me to take on a shouty, self-righteous old narcissistic asshole who’s completely fucking delusional about his candidacy, as his smug dismissiveness about supporting downtick Dems should make clear to everyone.
Betty Cracker
@MBunge:
It’s white privilege to believe a candidate who says she will continue and expand upon the policies of a successful administration in which she served as a key member? Oooookay then.
Look, there are good reasons to back Sanders over Clinton. I like ’em both, and deciding whom to support was a tough decision. You don’t have to pull stupid shit like “it’s white privilege to believe HRC can follow PBO” outta your ass.
J R in WV
@dollared:
“If you guys could hear yourselves?” REALLY?!?!
And then you attack Anne Laurie? Really?!?
While some of what you say is accurate, to then blame Hillary Clinton for all of those problems is, well way out in left field. “If you could hear yourself” you would realize that jumping on AL is not a way to win friends and influence people on Balloon Juice.
Loviatar
@MBunge:
Its a little amusing to see you throw about the term “white privilege” as a negative when you’re the one over at OTB defending the “white working class” in their anti-immigrant, anti BLM positions.
Look you’ve made your disdain for the Clintons pretty obvious to readers of the OTB blog. Fine to each his own, you have your memories of the late 90s as a nightmare, I remember it as a time when unemployment was at its lowest and wages were at a relative high. I remember it for the President trying to do something about gay rights and crime while the First Lady was trying to do something about healthcare. I guess if thats myth making then so be it.
J R in WV
@Applejinx:
The definition of “crisis” includes unexpected, that’s partly what makes them into crises.
If you know about it ahead of time, it isn’t a crisis, it’s poor planning.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Serious question, are you not bothered by his wave-it-away dismissiveness of every aspect of the “Revolution” that is not himself? Do you not find it a little troubling that he constantly harps on the stupid fucking speeches? Did it not bother you when he called Trump’s comments on abortion just another stupid comment that distracts from “serious issues”, when, as Clinton correctly pointed out, they were in fact the logical conclusion of Republican rhetoric since Reagan?
That’s what he said. He’s now whining about being taken out of context.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
and for comic relief, here’s yet another example of an old Bernista pretending to be a Youthful Millenial
Spike Lee is pushing sixty. To borrow a favorite line from the old Frasier show, it reminds me of when Bob Hope dressed up as The Fonz.
Loviatar
@Kay:
Except we do have an example of her doing exactly that; supporting down-ballot candidates who didn’t support her. See 2008 election. Both Hillary and Bill after the convention endorsed Obama, campaigned for Obama and supported and campaigned for many down-ballot Democrats.
J R in WV
@Amaranthine RBG:
Haircut is bullshite, was 20-odd years ago with Bill, still the same stinking pile today against Hillary!!
“Pulling up the ladder” is also bullshite, it’s what Republican IGMFY people try to do. Hillary doesn’t and won’t pull up a ladder.
The other commenter who pegged you for an ex-republican was pretty dead-on.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I find every one of those things you mentioned off-putting, but overall, I respect Sanders’ long-term commitment to doing something about income inequality and the corrupting influence of money in politics, and I view his being in the race a net plus, even though I don’t agree with everything he says and does. There are things Clinton has said that trouble me a great deal too (she’s way too hawkish by my lights), but on balance, I think she’s the better bet, so I voted for her in the primary.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
A couple of months ago I would have agreed with this, but I think at some point he went form message candidate he came to believe he could win, and has since come to believe he deserves to win, from there to campaigning against Clinton more than the Republicans, harping on her corruption and crossing the Nader line into net negative.
I hope I’m wrong.
J R in WV
@MBunge:
Now this is steaming tripe. Bill Clinton was more popular while being impeached by the idiot Rs than any other president – not what I call more damage to the Dems in 50 years, which isn’t really very long. Both Nixon and Reagan did more damage to the Democratic party than anyone else I can think of.
Hillary is pretty well liked for someone who has been accused of everything horrible the Rs can think of for 30 years, which speaks to reasonable political skills. Also, she did a good job as Sec of State, which is politics on the international level, so there’s another indication of her good political skills.
And your post is glaring and hostile proof that she isn’t being handed anything political on a sliver platter, except for maybe that good looking hair. And with regard to that Republican hair scare story, I saw that Angela Merkel, leader of Germany, has her done every day, and twice if it’s a long day. I would say that Hillary getting her hair done is nearly as essential as getting dressed every morning.
When people who claim to be Democrats use slurs and lies about the leading Democratic candidate, the candidate most likely to be the next president, well, the prove that they aren’t really Democrats. The other options are Republican rat-f’ers and deluded kinda socialist progressive non-Democrats. Bernie still isn’t really a Democrat, or he would be acting more like a Democrat, and working for down-ticket Democrats, like Hillary is.
J R in WV
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
“when Bob Hope dressed up as The Fonz. ”
Yeah, that would be funny…but it was supposed to be, Bob Hope was a famous clown, and made millions at it.
Spike is trying to be serious and still sounds like a comedian.
And Bernie, he gets funnier every day, and not in a good way.
msdc
@MBunge:
Well, at least you’re using those words in the right order, but they don’t mean what you think they mean.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I suspect you’re right that Sanders started off as a message candidate and was probably surprised as hell by how well he’s doing. I don’t blame him for competing hard against Clinton and thinking he can win — it’s not likely, but it’s not crazy to think so! I’m still confident that if he loses (which is all but certain, IMO), he’ll campaign for HRC and try to persuade his voters to support Democrats across the board. He’s no Nader, IMO.
Barbara
@Mnemosyne: Have you tried an olive oil cleanser? One is marketed by DHC, the Japanese company, which will provide free samples before you buy the full-size product. Origins also has an olive oil based cleanser, but it has a lot more ingredients than the DHC version. You can find a full list of ingredients at each of the websites. Neither is cheap.
dollared
@J R in WV: I like Anne and have defended her many times before – there’s a lot of people who don’t like her link based posts, but I appreciate them. But I am soooooooo tired of Hillary supporters mischaracterizing Sanders supporters as immature MALEs, or Trump ratfuckers, as if there is zero substance to the critique of neoliberalism. So yeah, throw out a few comments refusing to consider the legitimacy of Sanders or his supporters, especially using really fucking bigoted gender stereotypes, and yeah, I will criticize. Sue me.
dollared
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Thanks for your deeply substantive response. I thought maybe income, which Sanders has been addressing with far greater passion than Clinton, has some relation to housing affordability. But you know more than I do, obviously. And you are personal friends with Joe McCarthy and studied at his school or red baiting. I bow to your greater wisdom..
Loviatar
@J R in WV:
No, I believe MBunge if he claims to be a Democrat is a Democrat. I just think he is a recent convert similar to our blog host. Its hard after many years of hating something to then have to be a supporter of that thing.
Remember MBunge like our blog host probably defaulted to the Republican side as a young man and then probably through his formative political life he had Newt Gingrich, Tom Delay, Karl Rove and the rightwing media inundating him daily with Democrat bad, Bill bad, Hillary is the devil who will emasculate you. Its kind of sad in a way, but also a lesson on how propaganda can lead to brainwashing and bad choices.
Barbara
@Kay: Kay, she has been supporting them all along, even before she began campaigning. They already knew they could count on her. This doesn’t have to be important to everyone, but there is just no mystery why elected officials who are super delegates overwhelmingly prefer Clinton.
Loviatar
@dollared:
Can you explain why Sanders won’t commit to supporting Down-Ballot Democrats?
Sanders: ‘We’ll See’ If I Will Fundraise For Down-Ballot Democrats
Elie
I know that I am very late to this thread!
I use Kiehl’s skin cleanser, lotion and BB cream… Though I no longer have acne at my ripe age, my skin has always been touchy, not responding well to a variety of products. During my acne years I over treated the eruptions and made all my skin hyper reactive, blotchy and red. The Kiehl’s really treats it nice.
As for Bernie — I am truly disappointed but not surprised by his recent omissions such as failing to sign on to support downticket Democrats. There’s something missing in him as a Democratic candidate for President. Like Trump, he is the me,me,me candidate and he is just blowing the opportunity to rise to statesmanship. I truly am no longer convinced that he will do much after this primary period except sulk. These long campaigns let you see a lot about the character of those who are in a very serious job interview… you see whether they “get” that its a job interview. To me its Bernie who thinks that he should just get the job because he is “the best”. Hillary is running the race by the rules of the race. Bernie keeps bitching about the rules and then signaling his lack of class and team play by saying he’ll see if he will work for downticket races — like HE is gonna do shit without a congress that will support his vision and initiatives. While I do not believe all his supporters are negative, there are probably a number of ratfuckers who are messing in this thing.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne:
Very late to the thread, but…I FEEL YOUR PAIN.
That is all, thank you.
Emerald
@Betty Cracker: I’m pretty sure he’ll campaign for her, or at least endorse her, too, but only after throwing a hissy fit about how he’s The Only Honest Politician and she’s corrupt.
Al Giordano says, “His pattern is to bring things to the brink of spoiling, fail at the gambit, then sit down and vote yes.”
No One You Know
@J R in WV: Amen. Manners do matter, especially when you’re bucking general sentiment. Otherwise, you’re just Drumpfing yourself.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Betty Cracker: I think “competing hard” is explaining why breaking up the banks is essential, and regulation not enough; it’s explaining why building on Obamacare is inadequate; how “free college” actually works; it’s not saying “we’ll see” when asked about something he should have been doing for months now; it’s not saying super delegates are inherently corrupt (unless they switch to supporting me, in spite of the popular vote); it’s not the only thing standing between you and the herd of unicorns is the Witch of Wall Street and the Black Magick of her speeches. He’s a narcissistic, megalomaniac asshole.
He’s already throwing that hissyfit, and even if he stops now, or at the convention, or the week after, he’s been telling all his sparkly new voters that Hillary is corrupt and evil. Who knows how much the incontinent old asshole has already infected the pool.
Miss Bianca
@satby:
If you’re still following this thread (which I’m bookmarking for future reference because screw politics, SKIN CARE is what I came for!) – would love to look at your products. I’m over 50 now and *still* breaking out in annoying little whiteheads occasionally, which is seriously irritating both literally and figuratively.
Betty Cracker
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: I’ll wager half the Clintonites sputtering in outrage over Sanders in this race had Hillary Clinton’s photo on their dartboard in 2008. It’s politics, not WWF — at least it’s supposed to be on the Democratic side, which is one reason I am a Democrat. By any measure Clinton vs. Sanders is 1000% more substantive and mature than the freak show on the Republican side. I hope it stays that way.
dollared
@Loviatar: I think it’s a classic fake issue. Nobody who needs support in a purple district will support Bernie, and none of them (right or wrong) will support Bernie. And Bernie’s right to say that if the Party machinery is out to screw him (and it is), he owes them nothing.
But at least you’re talking about an issue, as opposed to suggesting that all Bernie supporters are immature males who are motivated by sexism. I truly appreciate that.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Boy, there’s a recipe for an effective general election candidate.
gwangung
@dollared:
Actually, I think you have it exactly backwards.
Bernie NEEDS the machinery and resources of the Democratic party. That’s how he magnifies and makes his message effect. And I believe he’s said this.
So, in that case, what does the Democratic party get out of this, besides him as their candidate? Because Bernie definitely needs those purple district officials to support his agenda.
I think it’s an extremely important issue that you just sluffed off, incorrectly, as unimportant.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Miss Bianca:
You can get to her site by clicking her name, which is a hyperlink.
mclaren
These Bernie supporters seemed particularly dense and Hillary came off as particularly gracious. Overall, big win for her.
We need to stop the mindless chanting and vacuous name-calling and get back to discussing the issues. That’s one of the things Bernie brought to this election cycle, and I hope most of his supporters have the good sense to stick to that plan.
mclaren
@gwangung:
Not so much. Bernie has raised more cash than Hillary and gotten more publicity than Hillary, and he’s done it without resorting to giant corporate donations or slick P.R. firms to “handle” his image.
The Democratic party gets to survive. Bernie’s issues are the future. Hillary’s issues are the dead past. If the Democratic party wants to remain viable as a political entity, it must embrace the issues Sanders has raised. Otherwise it will wind up in the ash can of history.
mclaren
@Betty Cracker:
Bingo. You have just won this thread, Betty.
These people are rage-o-holics. Ignore ’em. Serious people like us are in it for the long haul. I’ve done phone-banking for Obama, door-to-door for Obama, now I’m doing phone-banking for Bernie and I’ll do door-to-door for him too when the time comes.
Everyone who is serious will chip in and do what they can to make a difference. The rage-o-holics are all into sitting around and spluttering. That accomplishes nothing.
mclaren
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch:
Yes, Bernie Sanders is going to adjust home prices — or, rather, his policies are.
The big problem with home prices isn’t the cost of the houses, it’s the fact that wages have not kept up with the rest of prices over the last 40 years. A recent study shows that the minimum wage would be $21.72 if it had kept pace with inflation. And that’s just the minimum wage.
The reason people can’t afford homes is the same reason they can’t afford apartments in a major city today — because giant monopolies and monopsonies have grabbed all the wealth out of the increase in the GDP over the last 40 years, leaving nothing for workers. Reversing this process will make homes affordable relative to wages.
Here’s a quick story for you: a cousin of mine came out from the East Coast to stay with my family in 1968 over the summer. She was able to find a job as a bank teller within 3 days of getting off the airplane, and at $5.50 an hour. Over the next 3 months she was able to save up enough to buy a Volkwagen Beetle, at that time the cheapest new car on the market, and had money left over at the end of the summer to drive back to the East Coast.
Try that today.
The problem isn’t the absolute cost of housing, it’s the mistmatch twixt the cost of housing and the crappy low wages paid to workers. Part of the crappy low wage is caused by monopolistic corporations extracting rents, another part of the crappy low wage is that the rich have no incentive to grow the economy because that means investing and taking risks instead of just extracting rents from their monopoly corporations or sucking up the dividends from the stocks they own in those monopolistic corporations so raising the tax rate on the rich should kick-start GDP growth to much higher levels, and most of all providing universal single-payer low-cost government health care and free college will generate so much more aggregate demand that tax receipts will skyrocket and the economy will explode, boosting everyone’s income.
You people enormously underestimate the virtuous cycle effects that will go on once this vicious cycle of monopoly corporations making money by asset-stripping and rent extraction shuts down, and the profits generated by GDP growth start flowing to individuals in the middle class rather than billionaires. Bernie’s policies will more than pay for themselves due to the explosive increase in aggregate demand that will result from them. Bernie’s policies are essentially the virtuous cycle of knock-on effects that were put in place after WW II, and the GDP grew like crazy.
mclaren
@J R in WV:
No, you’re 100% wrong. MBunge is correct.
Let’s run down the 15 ways in which Bill Clinton helped trash America and wreck the Democratic party:
Source: “15 Ways Bill Clinton’s White House Failed America and the World,” Alternet, 22 June 2015.
Loviatar
@mclaren:
You heard it here first from mclaren, Bernie does not need the Democratic party.