I had a bunch of stuff to say about the nomination race, but then Tom just said it better than I would have. So here are some other thoughts I have not put much work into, god help you all.
If I had my choice I’d give Obama another couple terms. He would never forgive me for that, but I simply love everything about the guy. I admire his even keeled temperament. I love that he could not give less of a crap what some expensive haircut just said on cable news. I respect the hell out of his intellect. I respect the fact that he gave Republicans the benefit of the doubt long after every reached out hand came back with bite marks on it. It was the decent thing to do, but I also think it is good strategy and I believe his brand of politics will age very well. Obama has always been the grown up in the room. Of course he screwed some pooches, as one does in this job, but how many Presidents are man enough to admit it? Let the gears creak for a while. Eisenhower? That one night he dissected Donald Trump and knocked them dead at the Correspondents Dinner, that same night he just called the strike on Bin Laden but he didn’t know whether it would end in glory or disaster. Do not play poker with him.
The Affordable Care Act. Try to tell me with a straight face that anyone would have gotten that bill passed. Perfect? No. But twenty million Americans want a word with whoever thinks it would be a good idea to turn back the clock.
At this point, deep in Obama’s No More Fucks to Give phase, I mostly want to know who paid more attention for the last eight years. Because this is not a joke. The Republican party is a pack of loons in a suicide vest who forgot why they put the damn thing on in the first place and now they’re just fascinated with the red button*. Even your average elected Republican thinks Ted Cruz, aka the GOP’s more sensible candidate, is nothing but a serial arsonist running for national building inspector. I sincerely think all the lessons Barack Obama learned at great time and expense will be essential for surviving the GOP’s fevered delirium. It might break some day, or the party could fragment into a bunch of hapless third parties. But we’re not there yet. Until that day I want someone who viscerally understands these psychos, starting with her first day in office.
On social progress and the environment I honestly don’t see as much daylight as most people. We’re all Democrats. We more or less want the same thing. But if it comes down to reach vs. grasp I lean towards whoever has a better idea how to get the damn car in gear.
***
(*) You think I’m kidding? It took three or four government shutdowns and a couple of debt limit threats before a growing fraction of the GOP started calling for Mitch McConnell to shoot the hostages because fuck you and what’s this gun for anyway. At this point the official position of the House Freedom Caucus is to default on the debt just for the hell of it. And Cruz calls them weak.
***
Here’s a favorite classic pic of my dog pining for a life on the sea. Ten minutes after I took this Max met seawater for the first time. He bounded once up to his ankles, he bounded twice up to his shins, he bounded a third time and he disappeared.
Don’t worry, he came back up.
Chat about whatever.
aimai
Very well said. I feel the same way about Obama.
Amaranthine RBG
https://sites.google.com/site/sandersclintonmemesources/
Mnemosyne
I can think of a specific one, but I think we can all agree that he was a man apart from most of those who succeeded him:
ETA: Bonus points if you start singing along with it like we all used to sing the preamble to the Constitution after “Schoolhouse Rock.”
PsiFighter37
Sanders supporters are already trying to rationalize this loss. Lulz. Bernie got burnt.
Ripley
Mad Max 2016: Shiny & Chrome!
Baud
Is there no front pager who will endorse Baud!?
The Balloon Juice Establishment is corrupt.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
We’re raged out, Tim. You should have scheduled this post for tomorrow.
Dr. McCoy
@Ripley: Yeah….”WITNESS!!!”
Betty Cracker
Aww, Max is such a handsome boy! Also, well said.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
How could the most LIBERAL state in the country vote against Socialism?
It can’t be. It just can’t.
Hillary must have rigged the voting machines.
david10
Nice dog.
Sanders seems to be incapable of actually processing information. As soon as the first exit polls showed a close race he made a statement that he was proud, very proud, that they had come so close. (Mocking laughter) It’s 20 points dipshit, 20 points. This is kind of embarrassing because until the last few weeks I didn’t really dislike Sanders. Now I hope he’s annihilated.
Baud
Hillary is speaking.
Tripod
NY results…yeesh, that’s gonna leave a mark.
debbie
@Baud:
It’s been one of the real disappointments of the day.
PsiFighter37
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: There’s already a bunch of hand-wringing about the Brooklyn voter sweep. Anything to keep the tinfoil hats tightly taped to their heads…
Kathy
Thank you. Excellent post. Whose quote is that? Lincoln?
Barbara
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: You assume his timing was unintentional in this regard?
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Sanders smacked with worst case electoral scenario (ie Clinton Landslide).
Baud
“We won in every region of the country.”
Ouch.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Even the hipsters turned against him.
He coulda had class. He coulda been someone. He coulda been a contender. Instead, he’s a bum with a one-way ticket to Palookaville.
lamh36
Mitchell reported this about few hour ago, before the call for Clinton, so I’m guessing the Sanders camp new the writing was on the wall for this one.
This says Bernie left Pa for Vermont?
CaseyL
Thanks, Tim F. I’d like to hear the last of Bernie and his acolytes. I started out rather liking him, then liking him but not his supporters, and now? – Now he needs to stop smearing the almost-certain Democratic Presidential nominee, and tell his flock to stop as well. (Good luck with that!)
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@Barbara: They get bonus pay for every comment after 500.
Baud
Clinton’s speech is more subdued than her past victory speeches. Perhaps she realizes this is it.
Joel
Tim, are you in Philly? For some reason I thought you were out here in western PA.
Amaranthine RBG
@lamh36: If so, he’s conceding.
horatius
@Mnemosyne: The TPP will go down as his biggest blunder.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Sanders Defeated — FRAUD AT THE POLLS! (photo)
Baud
@horatius: Not sure it’ll ever pass.
Warren Terra
@Kathy:
George Washington’s Farewell Address (it’s also used in the Hamilton soundtrack, so maybe more widely remembered recently)
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Amaranthine RBG: maybe like Carson he just needs a change of clothing.
david10
Obama is the first president I can remember who really seems to be enjoying the downslope of his tenure. He won’t pretend that he cares about what the dumbfucks do or say, and he;\’s not going to pretend that they are anything but dumbfucks
Like a lot of other people I hated how conciliatory he tried to be at the beginning but now, you go guy.
He won me at the press conference where some derp asked him if he had thought about just having a drink with McConnell? His reply “You have a drink with McConnell.”
Major Major Major Major
@Baud: corrupt *and* unconstitutional!
lamh36
Hmmmm…
the Conster, la Citoyenne
To keep the car analogy going:
Hillary will be handed the keys to the car, all fixed up and with the service record and operating manual in the glovebox
Bernie would be the dog that caught the car.
Tim F.
@Joel: Yinz all better be joking n’at. Black and gold 4 life.
Baud
@david10: Agree. Maybe it would be different if half the country didn’t spend all their energy simply hating him for who he is.
Mike J
New York values are American values!
You’re goddamned right.
aimai
@lamh36: oopsie. Is that what they call a tell? or is it just the beginning of a prolonged sulk?
Mnemosyne
@horatius:
Such a blunder makes me wonder why I even bring the thunder.
(Why he even brings the thunder)
amk
lol. purrfect.
Davebo
I’m pretty surprised at Clinton’s margin of victory tonight. I thought a best case was a 10% lead.
Bernie hasn’t helped himself over the past 10 days.
NotMax
@Baud
You will be, however, the first ever candidate to campaign while wearing an Underdog costume.
geg6
@Kathy:
Washington.
So loving Hilz tonight. She really kicked some ass in the face of white hot vitriol. She’s such a fighter. How can you not admire that in her?
Kropadope
Congratulations guys. Seeing as how Bernie’s chances of securing the nomination just went from miniscule to infinitesimal. I expect him to concede or refocus his campaign. If he’s serious about his “revolution” talk, now is an awesome time for him to really work hard on promoting down-ballot races.
Joe Bauers
Congrats to Hillary. You supporters, good luck convincing enough of the more than half the country who loathes her to vote for her.
Seriously, good luck with that. Not sure how the hell you’re going to do it, but godspeed. I’ll vote for her in November but I haven’t got the stomach to try talking anybody else into doing it.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@david10: OMG, can you imagine having a drink with that old queen?
Mnemosyne
Also, too, not that anyone cares since it was in another thread and spun off into a discussion of anime, but I discovered that I had already bought the Mac version of Paprika at some point, so I guess I’m going to try using that for meal planning first. Problem solved!
horatius
@Baud: I hope so. But it still irks me that Democrats don’t learn the lessons about these trade deals. They all uniformly impoverish the general public, both here and abroad all while setting up corporations to strong arm and loot little countries using these deals as legal cudgels.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@geg6: #YASQUEEN
magurakurin
@Joe Bauers: de grapes, dey are so sour.
Frankensteinbeck
@the Conster, la Citoyenne:
Wow. That description of Obama’s presidency is absolutely, 100% perfect.
Frankensteinbeck
@Mnemosyne:
Paprika is a hoot! I enjoyed that movie.
horatius
@Mnemosyne: Not bad for a time-travelling secret muslim Kenyan who wanted to destroy America. Not bad at all.
Davebo
From Nate Silver’s live blog.
Exit polls all wrong? Just “recalibrate” them! What the hell does that mean?
Joe Bauers
@magurakurin: Indeed.
Baud
@horatius: If they do, I hope the voters will finally reward them for it, especially in mid-terms.
the Conster, la Citoyenne
@Davebo:
Between the pope clusterfuck, the interview FAIL and the noxious supporters screaming about voter suppression, yeah. Off the rails and into the ditch.
horatius
@geg6: She did give those couple of pieces and therefore those corporations totally own her. Or something.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
I’m not sure why people are celebrating.
New York is just another conservative “Southern” state that won’t vote Blue in November.
Tim F.
@Kropadope: It is time to find out who’s driving. I suspect that Tad Devine has been keeping himself in a job by feeding Bernie bad advice. Devine would want Bernie to drive this to some quixotic convention fight, and enough core believers would probably keep giving to sustain it. But Bernie himself would almost certainly like to salvage something productive out of his campaign. Fighting for downballot races would be a fantastic and strategically very smart thing to do, alongside just stumping for Hillary. Devine will certainly be feeding his ego here, and Bernie himself is clearly pretty exhausted at this point. So maybe he’ll tell everyone to fuck themselves and kick back for a while. It will be interesting to see.
Mnemosyne
@Kathy:
Yes, it’s George Washington. The second-to-last paragraph of his Farewell Speech.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@magurakurin: Where were the sour grapes? I thought he was quite gracious.
Yutsano
First things first: MAXPUPPEH!!!
Second, although I share the idea of universal health coverage and think single payer is an admirable goal, I don’t believe Bernie Sanders is the person who can get us there. He doesn’t even try to get any plans in place or specific details as to how to get to 218+51+1+5. He has too light a record in the Senate. I just can’t support him even though a lot of his ideas have appeal.
Technocrat
@Davebo:
It’s fairly complicated math:
New Exit Poll = Old Exit Poll – Old Exit Poll Error
=)
amk
@Davebo: cover your sorry lil asses?
lamh36
interesting series of tweets…ended with “need to charge batteries”…so onward?
https://twitter.com/DannyEFreeman/status/722614189257330688
Walker
@Davebo:
Apparently the polling on Hispanics was WAY off. Could be sampling issues, or something else.
pseudonymous in nc
@david10: McConnell seems to be more Dry Baptist Kentucky than Bourbon Papist Kentucky.
Bernie’s going to fuck off back to Vermont and grump about a rigged system when he’s benefitted from differently rigged systems. That’s what he does best.
Amaranthine RBG
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: If only he’d carried some hot sauce in his murse.
Mike J
Davebo
@Joe Bauers:
I don’t think any Democrat would expect more. I’m fairly certain that after tonight Bernie will urge his supporters to support the winning nominee in the coming days.
dr. bloor
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: New Yorkers can spot a fugazi a mile away.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@Tim F.: Bernie is not going to fight for down ballot races and he might do an initial appearance or two with Clinton but otherwise he’s just going to go back to work. That’s who he is.
Mnemosyne
@aimai:
Meh. If Sanders needs a little alone time to lick his wounds before he comes out to shake hands and say “Good game,” I’m fine with that. I just hope he doesn’t listen to any idiot campaign advisors who tell him to keep trying to get the superdelegates to switch.
Baud
@lamh36: I suspect he’ll need a day or two to figure out what to do next.
Miss Bianca
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: : )
The Thin Black Duke
@Tim F.: Indeed. Bernie can either be a mensch or a putz, his call.
geg6
@Tim F.:
Don’t be such a jagoff! Seriously, great post and hits me right where I am. Plus…MAX!!!!!
Did you catch Kasich here today at the Original Oyster House getting his yinzer on? It is to laugh!
horatius
@Baud: Democrats will never get credit for the good things they do. There will always be media gasbags trying to balance the truth with lies so both get equal coverage. Democrats’ only hope is to keep making a difference in people’s lives and pay attention to the goddamn census years.
Felonius Monk
The NYC and Long Island vote for Hillary must be massive. Nearly every county in New York State north of Westchester went for Bernie. Many in the 70/30 and 60/40 range. Very interesting how NYC really controls this state.
O. Felix Culpa
@NotMax:
Meg
@Tim F.: Tad was just on NPR basically saying Bernie will win all the races from now on.
Miss Bianca
@Warren Terra: I figured it had to be Washington, since Mnem dropped that hint about singing it… ; )
horatius
In other news, Bernie’s best margin of victory in New York is ironically, Clinton county.
Baud
@horatius:
That’s not sustainable IMHO.
amk
@horatius:
This!
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Davebo:
You mean saying Hillary was unqualified, calling her a whore, throwing dollar bills at her, saying Sandy Hook victims were wrong to sue merchants of death, freezing when asked how to break up the banks, saying winning South Carolina is like winning Guam or I’m winning if you don’t count the
blackssouth were missteps?Tim F.
@geg6: Honestly, I think Kasich could spend two days in my living room before I found out he was there. When they make a movie of this clusterfuck William H. Macy will play him for sure.
geg6
@Baud:
I agree.
Mike J
@Felonius Monk:
More people, more say in the outcome. Democracy.
Frankensteinbeck
@Tim F.: and @Kropadope:
I will be delighted and it will restore much of my regard for Sanders if he drops the scorched earth tactic and refocuses on improving the Democratic Party’s chances to win in November. Heaven knows being led astray by bad advisers, and wishful thinking when it looks like you just might pull things out, happen. I would love to think of him like I did at the start of the campaign, as an honorable man who I merely thought would not be as good as Clinton.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@Meg: Yeah, Jeff Weaver did the same thing on MSNBC.
Tim F.
@Meg: Of course he said that. I think Devine will keep preying on Bernie’s ego until Sanders physically throws that schmuck out a window.
? Martin
The math:
There are 1742 delegates left (NY is in this total). Prior to this result, Sanders needs 1253 of these – 72%. Assuming Clinton wins NY by 30 delegates, 247 delegates come off the table, Sanders will need 1144 out of 1495 or 77% of what’s left. There are 500 superdelegates, and Sander’s only viable path is to win the overwhelming majority of the superdelegates while still trailing on pledged. That’s not going to happen. Even if he split them 50/50, he’d need 59% of the pledged that remain.
California has 475 delegates. If they split CA (Clinton currently polling about 10 points ahead) then Sanders needs 90% of what’s left. Sanders needs to win CA in a landslide.
So Sanders needs to present a scenario where superdelegates abandon Clinton. Scandal is the only scenario I can see that happening. Her odds of winning are now 99%.
david10
@pseudonymous in nc: All those people who have served with him, apparently weren’t wrong-totally ungracious and lacking some fundamental social skills.
And the idea that he’s being lead astray by evil advisers, meh. I think the problem is he only hears what he wants to hear.
amk
@Felonius Monk: people matter?
Baud
Although nothing can top Obama 08 in terms of discipline, the Clinton team deserves some props for sticking to their strategy, looking at the delegate math, and not freaking out when Bernie was winning all those Western states.
geg6
@Tim F.:
LOLOLOLOLOL! Perfect!
Gin & Tonic
@Felonius Monk: The counties that went 70/30 for Bernie have no people. Essex had like 2,600 votes, Washington like 2,200. Queens has around 170,000.
geg6
Weaver is a fucking weasel.
PsiFighter37
@Felonius Monk: You’re goddamn right that NYC runs the state.
Glad to see the NY counties I’ve lived in (NY/Manhattan, and Westchester) are giving Clinton some of her biggest margins in the state.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
oof.
redshirt
@Ripley: WITNESS HER!!!
? Martin
@Mike J: Not just that, but NYC is probably 80% Democrats/20% GOP. Upstate is more balanced with a lean toward the GOP. So NYC not only has more people, but far, far more Dems.
dr. bloor
@Felonius Monk: The vote totals in most of those upstate districts on the electoral maps range from the several hundreds to a few thousands. Bernie’s playing Hillary to a draw in the cities along I-90.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mnemosyne: I’m not looking for him to put on a Ready For Hillary tee shirt, but it’s past time to stop talking about her speaking fees and echoing Chuck Todd on the dread transcripts
I thought Clinton’s speech was pretty good, too.
Baud
@Meg:
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter:
I don’t like them, but it’ll take them a day to adjust their talking points (assuming they plan to).
horatius
@Joe Bauers: That ok. 6 months of the short fingered vulgarian’s smug prickface plastered all over the news will change your mind right quick.
Mnemosyne
@Felonius Monk:
You may have fallen prey to the common fallacy that square mileage = votes. IIRC, upstate NY is still pretty rural for the most part.
Disclaimer: I have never been to New York, city or state.
? Martin
Looks like Clinton will pick up a 31 delegate advantage. Could be ± 2.
CONGRATULATIONS!
@Davebo: It means Silver’s lost the plot this time. He was stellar in 2008 and 2012 but he went off the rails at some point and stopped looking at the numbers. Which is something you just cannot do if you do what he does. Truthfully I’m quite surprised..
Sam Wang over at PEC is doing very good work this cycle.
@Joe Bauers: For you and all the Bernie supporters: that’s all I could or would ask of you. Thank you. We can handle the “talking people into it” part.
dr. bloor
@PsiFighter37:
No, they just pretty much pick up the state’s tab for everything. As for running it, there’s always some Clem in the state senate from Longiland or the Southern Tier who is certain he knows how NYC should regulate rents, commuter taxes and every other fucking thing.
O. Felix Culpa
@Tim F.: The defenestration of Devine is past time.
magurakurin
@Felonius Monk: There are 20 million people in the New York metro area. It is the 9th largest city in the world. Some of those counties where Sanders is winning are reporting a couple or three thousand votes.
Gin & Tonic
@Tim F.: Devine is pond scum. He consulted, twice, for Viktor Yanukovych.
Miss Bianca
@Tim F.: LOL, and great post, too.
amk
fucking teann still shagging off to ‘how impressive donald trump’s win is’.
hey assholes, he got less than the loser from the other side. the punk ain’t gonna win in nov despite you shitheads kissing his punk ass.
Mike J
@O. Felix Culpa:
Devine is the halfway sane one that tries to rein in Weaver. And Devine is crazier than a shithouse rat.
glory b
Just now on msnbc, Jeff Weaver said that the sanders campaign strategy is to fight through the summer and push to flip superdelegates.
Baud
@amk: Nice that the media no longer cares about turnout differentials.
Chyron HR
@geg6:
Cut him some slack–how can mere Democrats like us possibly understand the pain and confusion he feels at having his favored candidate lose an election?
dr. bloor
@amk:
Which is exactly why we like seeing his win played up and creating an aura of inevitability around his nomination.
lamh36
I mean after these results and the math going forward, what else could he say, but weren’t they touting superdelegate system as a bad thing?
Barbara
@david10: That’s just awesome. God, the inanity must drive him nuts.
dmsilev
@glory b:
The same super delegates that are part of the “corrupt Democratic establishment” that the Sanders campaign has been railing against? Yeah, good luck with that one, sparky.
RobertDSC-Quad Intel Mac
I’m glad Bernie got burnt. Fuck you, Bernie.
geg6
@Mnemosyne:
You don’t need to. You’re right. Upstate NY is like the T region of PA. Lots of land, only a few people. They, too, bitch about Pittsburgh and Philly having too much influence but the cities outnumber the backwoods hicks easily.
aimai
@Mnemosyne: Yeah. I don’t really mind. Hopefully he will retrench, think about it, and come out as gracious as Hillary was in 2008. It took her four days. He can have more time than that, as far as I’m concerned, if he comes out and behaves as well as she did.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Mike J: My hunch too. I’d bet a mortgage payment Devine is partly about a paycheck, partly about payback. Weaver is the True Believer who would burn it all down to allow for a new and pure growth.
? Martin
@Mnemosyne: 19.5M people in NY state. NYC is 9M. Long Island is 3M more. Westchester is another 1M, the suburbs immediately north of the Bronx. That’s 13M out of 19.5M in NYC or commuter counties (about ⅔). If you count just Democrats, it’s probably close to 80% of Dems in the state.
Baud
@aimai: This. Even if he doesn’t drop out, the key will be whether Sanders maintains the strategy of the past two weeks. I think it would be bad for everyone concerned if he did.
Miss Bianca
@glory b: Yeah, good luck with that one, asshole. I am going to write to my Democratic Senator, Michael Bennet, drop him some bucks, and bid him tell Weaver and his master to kiss his fine white onion, after that disgraceful dissing the BernieBros gave him at the state convention.
Mnemosyne
@horatius:
Suppressing … trivia … urge ….
More seriously, though, Obama definitely wasn’t perfect (his education policy was pretty disastrous) but unlike with the Bushies, I always felt like he was making honest mistakes that he was willing to reflect on and try not to do a second time. And one of the things that won me over to Clinton this time around was feeling like she had learned from her mistakes in 2008 and was making an effort not to repeat them.
Chyron HR
@lamh36:
I’m going to stick with: “Gosh, I’m terrible at this. I think I’ll take up basket weaving instead.”
redshirt
@geg6: I kinda feel bad for upstate NY rednecks. They’re just as redneck as any redneck, yet they drive trucks with NY license plates and so when they leave the state everyone assumes they’re from NYC.
dmsilev
@aimai: I imagine we’ll find out pretty quickly whether this trip is Sanders calling it quits or whether it’s something as banal as he’s worn out and needs a day at home to recuperate. T-7 days to PA, CT, RI, DE, and if he’s not hitting the rallies and such by Thursday, we’ll know it’s over. Personally, I don’t see how he stops now. I think he goes through CA etc. in early June and then stops after the DC primary on the 10th.
Tripod
@Technocrat:
More like our interns made up some results and then went to a bar.
Baud
@Chyron HR: Weaver the Basket Weaver?
lamh36
Chyron HR
@Baud:
They practically sell themselves.
geg6
@redshirt:
Poetic justice.
Mnemosyne
@geg6:
Oh, we have ’em here in California, too. People who live out in the high desert where there is no water and no jobs and just can’t understand why all those city dwellers get to outvote them. At one point, they were proposing secession, but I still have no clue how they thought they were going to support themselves with no water and no jobs. It was like a five-year-old announcing he was going to run away from home.
Davis X. Machina
Bernie could do a job there in the fall, and in similar places. That’s Richard Russo/Empire Falls country.
Those towns have never really recovered from 35 years of de-industrialization. Some of them look like the former East Germany. It’s not surprising he did well there — and Democrats need to do well for the people there. Trump’s siren song will be loud in those parts.
Dr. McCoy
@Mike J: How many U.S. Senators does California have? And Wyoming? ……Democracy?
? Martin
@Joe Bauers:
Well, 90% of those reporting how horrible she is and how much the public hate her are men on TV, radio, etc. I’m pretty sure when the 54% of the electorate (women) get to compare and contrast Clinton and Trump, that will be a pretty easy argument to make. And we have 11% of the electorate (latinos) we also get to talk to. That’s almost 60% of the electorate that Trump is going to lose at historic rates for a Republican.
O. Felix Culpa
@Baud: [Bad] Dream Weaver.
Felonius Monk
@Mnemosyne:
I haven’t really fallen prey to anything lately. I live in upstate NY. The congressional district I live in runs from the Vermont border on the east to Lake Ontario on the west. So, yeah, the population up here is a lot less dense than down river.
Joe Bauers
@horatius: Ha ha. No, I plan to tune right the fuck out and stop paying attention to politics, starting tomorrow. Use the extra time to read more books and listen to more music. Whoever wins, wins. I’ll still show up on election day to cancel out one of my elderly wingnut neighbors, just out of spite. For all the fucking good it does in this shithole state.
Feudalism Now!
Most of Upstate is rural or Adirondack park and overwhelmingly Republican. The Thruway cities put some counties in the Dem block, Albany, Syracuse, Rochester and Buffalo, but the rest is lily white farm country. There is a lot of empty north of Poughkeepsie. The county I live in, Madison, has more cows than people. It is like a goatee-wearing Spock version of Vermont, white farmers who vote republican. No surprise Bernie did well in upstate.
Tripod
Wait…what did hey say????
horatius
@aimai: And that’s what really changed my opinion about Hillary in 2008. She took her lumps, but came back and fought for the party that just rejected her. And she learnt the right lessons from it (Where are you, Mark Penn?) and came back with a much better staff and strategy this time around.
Warren Terra
@amk:
The Republicans’ combined votes are not much more than the votes Bernie got as the distant-second finisher in the Democratic contest (with 85% reporting, 653K for Bernie, 703K for all three Republicans).
FlipYrWhig
Cheer up, Bernie. Now that you’re a famous political figure, while you’re sorting out your future, you can go on a lecture tour. Tell stories about your life experiences, your views of the biggest challenges facing America, tell a few show biz jokes, the usual routine. I wonder if anyone would be willing to pay to organize that sort of event, and, if so, how much.
Mnemosyne
@Felonius Monk:
When California votes, I’m guessing you’ll see a similar thing — Sanders will probably do better in the rural and desert areas, but Hillary will probably win in the places that people actually live.
burnspbesq
@Tim F.:
Black and gold for life? Wake Forest or Wichita State?
Mike J
@horatius:
Doing VC now.
dmsilev
@Tripod: Stirring words from the Zodiac Killer.
Elie
Great post and great pic of handsome dawg. Me likee!
Obama is an amazing leader. I believe he will continue to “lead” by example after he leaves office by the issues he advocates for. He is the total leadership package and we will not easily see his like for a while — but I always like being surprised, so it would be great to see great leadership again soon. Lord knows, we will need it. Nothing will be easy going forward and we have half our populace and leadership who have had a massive stroke. Rehab is a bitch and these people are going to be depressed as well as angry for a while…
lamh36
Ugh….Weaver or Devine…ugh to both…
dmsilev
Oh, and a hearty “well done” to the pollsters, who seem to have gotten this one pretty close to dead-on (the aggregates predicted around 14 points margin, and it looks like the final number will be something in the 14 or 15 range).
Dr. McCoy
@Feudalism Now!: —-“Jim, I think I liked him with a beard better. It gave him character. Of course, almost any change would be a distinct improvement.”
burnspbesq
AP has it 57-43 with 86% reported. I was hoping for a margin > 20, so I’m disappointed but not upset.
Cacti
@lamh36:
Now there’s a man who doesn’t want the gravy train to dry up.
Joel
@CONGRATULATIONS!: 538 had Trump projected to win 58 delegates in NY. Their numbers are worthless.
Davebo
@Miss Bianca:
Bernie’s not going to woo over the super delegates. He knows it, Weaver knows it, hell every sentient person in the country knows it.
What else was Weaver supposed to say?
dmsilev
@lamh36: I continue to maintain that they’re just blowing smoke to give the campaign a rationale to keep going. If it turns out I’m wrong and they do make a serious attempt to keep going after DC on June 10th, it won’t work and will just lead to bitterness. Hopefully, folks like Obama would move to shut it down pretty fast (I imagine he’ll endorse the pledged-delegate leader, presumably Clinton, very soon after the end of the primaries).
Cacti
I want Trump as the GOP nominee just so that he’ll have the chance to watch the networks call NY for Clinton right after the polls close.
a hip hop artist from Idaho (fka Bella Q)
Thanks for the Max picture.
Mai.naem.mobile
Hey Tim who are you going to vote for in the Dem Senate Primary? Any opinions on McGinty/Sestak?
Frankensteinbeck
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
Ditto, and well said. I don’t want Sanders supporters to eat crow. Vote against the Republican freak show trying to burn everything down, and that’s all anyone should be responsible for. The people who love Hillary will handle loving Hillary.
redshirt
@Davis X. Machina:
I agree with you about many of the towns of the rural Northeast. Industry left and is still leaving. A Trump message could pin these folk’s loss on immigrants or trade deals or anything OTHER and that might appeal to some who otherwise wouldn’t vote Republican.
But I think the lines are fairly solid at this point. If 8 years of Obama didn’t crystallize the electorate, nothing will. Trump might get a few more votes then generic Republican in these parts, but big deal.
Also, I find it surprising to note I think you’re much too critical of the rednecks overall. They’re not all Republicans. My white trash town went 51% for Obama in 2012 which did shock me but he won or came close in a lot of surrounding poor towns with nothing but trees and some rich people on ponds.
I mean, they can be terrible. The rednecks. But not all of them.
Elie
@lamh36:
The dude has to be TIRED. Remember, he just did a trans-atlantic trip for the hoo-ha at the Vatican. They may as well have thrown him an anvil…. he is 74 years old and he has been under unremitting pressure the likes of which he has never experienced. I hope he gives it up and comes to reason. This aint gonna happen for him but he has the choice of some really great outcomes (for him). I hope his most reliably sane friends and family are around him and that he also gets some good, quality sleep in his own bed and good food.
Mike J
Mashable NewsVerified account @MashableNews
Cruz: “America has always been best when she is lying down with her back on the mat.”
horatius
@Mnemosyne: Yeah, that too. Goddamn Arne Duncan. What a shitshow!
Joel
@Felonius Monk: roughly 65% of NY state population lives south of the Westchester County line.
Davebo
@Mike J:
Sometimes I like America on her tummy. Does that make me a bad American?
PhoenixRising
@Mike J: um…say what Rafael?
Mai.naem.mobile
@Elie: I have no idea if he wants it but I would love to see Obama on the USSC down the road,in place of Breyer or Ginsburg. If the Clintons are as nefarious as the GOP idiots say in wanting to be the Dem King and Queen,Hils would nominate him because he would have more of a legacy as a retired POTUS then as a working USSC justice.
Gin & Tonic
@Davebo: I’m sure Ted only does missionary. With the lights off.
Tripod
@Mike J:
See my link link at 151 @Tripod
Mike J
@Joel:
538 doesn’t run their own polls. Based on the information they were given, it was the best guess. Polling sucks, especially exit polls, as anybody (like me) who was convinced all afternoon on election day 2004 that Kerry was a solid lock. I think Nate has done a good job of finding new ways to look at polls and try to get more usable info out of them, even if he still falls short.
mike in dc
Still voting for Sanders in MD next week, but it’s pretty clearly over. There will be a roughly 3 month period of #FeelTheButthurt, unfortunately. But I expect 90+% of Sanders supporters to pull the lever for Clinton in November, as Clinton supporters did for Obama in 2008.
Miss Bianca
@FlipYrWhig: Maybe he can work that Vatican trip in there, too…”So, as I was saying to il Papa…”
@Dr. McCoy: Spock definitely *rocked* that Van Dyke. Not that I noticed particularly, or anything. Just saying.
burnspbesq
AP has the delegate count at 129-98, with 20 still to be allocated. If Clinton gets them all, she will have 60 percent of the delegates.
Tripod
@Gin & Tonic:
….and then stabs ’em with an ice pick.
horatius
@Joe Bauers: You could trick your wingnut neighbours into writing-in Ted Cruz on their ballot. Tell them there’s a secret plan afoot to bring Jesus back into the Constitution and everybody is writing in Ted Cruz.
Mike J
@Tripod: Dammit, whenever I go try to run it down I always get pipped.You beat me, ya bastard.
(to be fair to myself, I did do a quick control-f and look for the quote on this page before I posted.)
magurakurin
@lamh36: sigh.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
We’re you people the same ones telling Gore to give it up in 2000? Why the hell should Sanders quit before the primary is over? Clinton conceded in June in the 2008 primary and she did everything in her power to have MI and FL (who had been disqualified) counted, even accusing the Democratic Party of disenfranchising those voters.
If I was a Sanders supporter with the fervor I had as a Wes Clark supporter, staying up until midnight to phone Democrats in the Shithole of Oklahoma to help him win that primary, I’d want him to fight like hell for the nomination. I still loathe Kerry and all the stupid Democrats that thought that effete French speaking liberal from Massachusetts could be elected.
Frankensteinbeck
@Elie:
Also well said. I wasn’t thrilled with the deceptions on the pope thing, but the man has got to be a wreck right now. Let the guy rest, and again, if he does the honorable thing it will all be water under the bridge to me.
Mnemosyne
@Mike J:
It’s good to know that both leading Republicans are doing their best to alienate women, not just one.
Uncle Ebeneezer
@Mnemosyne: When we were up in the Six Rivers area on our honeymoon (a 2 week camping trip from LA to Crater Lake and back) we stopped at a gas station that had a big anti-Obama sign in their window. We saw all kinds of White camo-dudes too. Creepy. We were very glad to get back out to the coast.
Linnaeus
Not to break into all the primary talk, but the Flint water crisis is about to get a little more interesting:
Mnemosyne
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter:
He doesn’t have to quit, and as a California voter I’d like to at least have the illusion of choice when we finally get our turn in June. But his campaign staff really need to dial back the anti-Democratic Party rhetoric. A lot.
cckids
@geg6:
THIS. Did I just hear him say something discounting the fact that Hillary is ahead in the popular vote by saying that caucuses skewed the popular vote count? WTF?? That whole segment was incoherent.
redshirt
@Uncle Ebeneezer: I’m always amazed any business would ever advertise their political beliefs. Unless that’s your business. Some little gas station and store, do you really need to tell the world you’re voting Trump? I’ll do my damnedest to go elsewhere.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@Mnemosyne: Yep, the same thing Obama supporters were telling Clinton supporters in 2008.
redshirt
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: LOL. Wes Clark.
burnspbesq
There are not many things funnier than a 35-pound, four-month-old puppy trying to stop and change directions quickly on a tile floor.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@redshirt: I was young and impressionable.
Mnemosyne
@Uncle Ebeneezer:
Rural is rural, even in a blue state.
Highway Rob
Richard Wolffe at the Guardian:
Well, since Sen. Sanders advocates for a Scandinavian-style social democracy, I suppose it’s fair to respond that he must be pining for the fjords.
horatius
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: That effete French speaking Liberal also has a purple heart. His campaign team was extremely shitty. But you don’t have to smear a standup guy who literally took a bullet in the ass for his country, when he had a 1000 avenues for dodging the draft.
PhoenixRising
@burnspbesq: a 3.5 year old 110 pound Dane who hasn’t ever touched indoor flooring except carpet…is close.
We are very lucky that this dog decided to stay perfectly housebroken despite the unsuitable nature of the house we provided her.
amk
Other huge news out of New York tonight: Dems picked up a state Senate seat on Long Island. First Dem win there since 2008. #NYPrimary
Elie
@Mai.naem.mobile:
I dunno… I thiink Obama would find it stultefying. I think he would want to get more into the fray — be more accessible. I would find his humanistic qualities to be lost on the bench — I want him out in the open…
Kropadope
@lamh36:
No, they were just arguing that the superdelegates’ stated preferences at the beginning of the primary season shouldn’t be viewed as absolutely determinative of how they would ultimately vote at the convention and, further, that the superdelegates should respect the will of the voters. Failing some cosmically unlikely meltdown, that would mean supporting Hillary at this point, period.
MomSense
My son is so psyched tonight. He just remarked that his first vote for president was for the first black president and his second vote will be for the first woman president.
We have a lot to be happy about as Democrats.
amk
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: wesley fucking clark? really? keep that loser streak going.
SiubhanDuinne
This is pathetic. Just landed in my inbox:
Lucy Flores may indeed be a fine candidate, but damned if that doesn’t come across as some of the most cynical and calculated messaging in the recent history of politics.
Gin & Tonic
@horatius: JSF is performance art.
amk
@Elie: da kenyan already said no to sc bench saying it’s a boring job. it’s in some gq interview.
Kropadope
@amk: That’s awesome, I believe that means they’re going to be gaining control of both chambers of the NY legislature for the first time in a while, unless Cuomo somewhow negotiates it away to the Republicans again.
WarMunchkin
Just got back from the Times Square event. Clinton spoke very well today – better than I’ve heard her speak in the past, including in 2008 and when I saw her up-close last, as a Senator. She hasn’t quite gotten the hang of bringing history behind her and letting it flow, but she’s started to find the threads. After Barack gets in the campaign, I think it’ll bring out a whole new side of her. Make no mistake – it was a progressive speech. It invoked Roosevelt, invoked the core issues that every Democrat has fought for and should have erased any doubt in your minds that whatever her flaws – Hillary Clinton is very much on the solid left side of the political spectrum (on domestic policy. We’ll see about FP).
One of my favorite moments that you all watching at home likely missed was after the speech, when Clinton got mobbed by a few secret service agents, Mayor DeBlasio, Chelsea and some other people. After this is going on, Bill Clinton goes on stage and tries to get in the crowd, but he’s hanging awkwardly on the outside in this bright blue suit. Everyone can see that he’s trying to get in, but people mostly ignored him. It was hilarious.
Lastly, there was an “I’m With Her” chant that synchronized to the lyricless beat of Shake It Off that I found really enjoyable.
redshirt
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: Yeah, I guess we’ve all done stupid stuff when young.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Sanders’s campaign manager explains path forward to victory (photo)
Mike J
Why won’t the cultist slaves who are in thrall to the lying, murderous, corrupt, whore act more magnanimous?
horatius
@Gin & Tonic: Ah the Wes Clark preference was a tell. Silly me!!
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@horatius: Yes, I made all the same arguments when we were trying to get his awkward, uncharismatic self elected in the general. I even used the sharper “How dare you besmirch the honor of every soldier whoever served for cheap political gain!” line. That usually resulted in the rejoinder, “Kerry did that himself when he threw his medals away.”
Just a hideous candidate for president.
Amir Khalid
@mike in dc:
Why?
amk
@Kropadope:
yup, too bad that the librul new yak couldn’t find someone better than cuomo.
Omnes Omnibus
@Elie: Agreed. I do not know why people keep suggesting that. There are scores of lawyers who are well-qualified to be Supreme Court Justices. There are few (if any) people who could do what Obama could do following his presidency. I think the conclusions should follow logically..
burnspbesq
@Amir Khalid:
You getting up to watch the derby at 3:00 a.m. Thursday?
Mike J
@Elie:
I think he loved being a law professor and having a few clerks around while he not only explained how previous courts interpreted the constitution, but showed them the direction it was going, would thrill him to no end.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Mike J: you forgot “unqualified”.
burnspbesq
@Mike J:
I imagine Obama being happier on the Seventh Circuit than the Supreme Court. And wouldn’t you like to be a fly on the wall when Obama and Posner get into it?
Sophie
@FlipYrWhig: This is my favorite comment ever.
mike in dc
@Amir Khalid:
Why not? His positions are more in line with my own, and I want those positions to be represented at the convention. Also, I’m supporting Edwards over Van Hollen in the Senate primary. As I said, I won’t have a problem supporting Clinton in the general. And to be fair, my opinion of her has improved a bit over the course of the campaign.
Kropadope
@amk: They did and he was hounded out of office for consensual, if illegal, adult behavior.
Dr. McCoy
@Sophie: Little things please little minds
Tripod
@Mike J:
I just wanted to highlight the ABC News twitter link, because I thought it was a parody (or a rat fucking) when I first saw it.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@amk: You mean Gore, Clark, Obama, Obama and Clinton?
Why do you always shoot your mouth off before you know what the fuck you are talking about?
burnspbesq
Per AP, turnout for the Dem primary is more than double the Republicans.
horatius
@mike in dc: Donna Edwards will make an excellent Senator. She’s the rightful heir to Barbara Mikulski.
horatius
@Kropadope: Adultery is not illegal.
Omnes Omnibus
@horatius: Hiring hookers is.
Kropadope
I think I just decided to make my first donation of the campaign season.
Mike J
Today, 3 million people in the state of New York who are independents have lost their right to vote in New Jersey.
PatrickG
@burnspbesq:
Well, it is a solidly blue state. Not sure why this outcome is surprising.
@Omnes Omnibus:
Word on Obama/SC. It’s the same strange phenomenon when people suggest sitting progressive Senators for Vice President. There are other people out there.
Kropadope
@horatius: Prostitution is. I disagree with that law, but it’s on the books and Spitzer unfortunately, rightly, paid the price.
Feebog
Sorry, but Bernie isn’t going to concede yet. If HRC runs the table next Tuesday then it is well and truly over and he should bail. Then sooner the better as far as I’m concerned.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: He also was state AG at the time.
amk
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: must have caught it from you, fuckhead.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@Omnes Omnibus: i think Obama as a free-agent has the potential to be a very interesting political force, though I could imagine that he would be tempted by a Supreme Court seat, as a personal and intellectual challenge.
I feel the same way about people who say Clinton should pick Sanders as Veep. My personal antipathy for the man aside, electoral politics aside, he does not strike me as one who would either want or be good as a loyal number two, and more than any of that: A senate seat with a national profile isn’t, or shouldn’t be, a proverbial hill of beans.
@horatius: I saw a poll today that put Van Hollen way ahead. Made me a bit sad, even though from what I’ve read CVH is usually on the side of the angels
James E Powell
@Mai.naem.mobile:
I don’t think a former president can be anything but Chief Justice.
Mike J
@Feebog: Silver says Bernie needs to win Oregon by 54, Rhode Island by 42, North Dakota by 56. That’s ignoring that he’s down by 13 in CA, where he needs to win by 15.
WarMunchkin
AHHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAHAAHAH. No.
aimai
@Mike J: oh, you’ve been visiting dkos, I see?
redshirt
@Mike J: Kneel the Bern.
Mike J
aimai
@Mike J: For god’s sake he’s already said he doesn’t want the job,wants to get out of DC and out of the fishbowl.
amk
fucking teann going gaga over donald dreck didn’t call the other punk as lying ted and hence declared he was sounding fucking ‘presidential’. fucking 3rd rate 4th estate 5th columnists.
TriassicSands
He’s actually running for Lord High Inquisitor and Moral Conscience for the World. His would be the most religious administration in history and the damage he would do, abetted by a bunch of raving lunatics in Congress, would be incalculable.
He is to be loathed and feared.
Note to Bernie Sanders: Winning at any cost is not winning. Tone down the personal attacks on Clinton — you would have been the ideal running mate, but you’ve poisoned that well. It’s time to start emphasizing that if you don’t win you will still wholeheartedly support Clinton in the general election. I heard you say tonight that a Republican victory in November would be a “DISASTER.” I agree, and you should make sure you don’t do anything that could help the Republicans — like keep campaigning as though HRC is the worst of the robber barons.
James E Powell
@aimai:
I’m expecting the inevitable book – good people will buy it, great ones will read it – but what else?
Omnes Omnibus
@amk: I usually oaky with typos, but huh?
Mnemosyne
@Mike J:
I thought everything was legal in Jersey.
aimai
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: Kerry actually came extremely close to unseating an incumbent president in time of war. Fantasy Wes Clark wasn’t really going to cut it, no matterwhat you think. Kerry actually did really well but Bush simply wasn’t going anywhere.
Kropadope
@Kropadope: Well, I went and did it, though it was kind of awkward having to decline to make my donation recurring three times in order to process it. I get it, though, I get it.
Kropadope
@TriassicSands:
Nah, either of them would have been a bad veep choice for the other.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
Hillary won Syracuse which has a student body of 21,000.
I guess Free College isn’t enough of an incentive to vote. Sanders should have instead offered them Free Porn.
eemom
Jesus H. Christ. Of all the weapons-grade stoopid I’ve endured in the last week, y’all gotta drag out the Obama/Supreme Court Justice bedtime fairy tale story at this hour on this particular night?
Do you have ANY idea how fucking ridiculous it is to suppose he’d want to do that?
Tripod
@TriassicSands:
Undertaker Ted is a sadist and a necrophiliac.
Omnes Omnibus
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: Free porn already exists.
Omnes Omnibus
@eemom: YOU MUST CHILL!
Omnes Omnibus
@Tripod: And those are his better qualities.
Cacti
@Mike J:
I am personally disenfranchised from voting in the other 49 states where I don’t live.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Omnes Omnibus: you still have to pay for the good stuff. I mean, (tugs on collar) not that I would know.
Kropadope
@Cacti: You are personally an idiot.
Omnes Omnibus
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: I’ll bow to your expertise. Also, less talking about tugging in this context, please.
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
CNN = TeaNN
Mike J
@Cacti: It’s disenfranchisement. Why should I have to commit to something like a party or living in a particular state to vote?
Cacti
@Kropadope:
I recommend Preparation H for that Berning sensation you’ve been feeling, and a few counseling sessions for the delusions of being a revolutionary. ;-)
Yutsano
@geg6: Weasel Defence League on line 3 for you.
Sophie
@Dr. McCoy: Really? Just insulting me for the hell of it? You don’t even know me. I’ve had no interaction with you at all, and you just decide to insult me because I complimented someone else’s comment?
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: That helps a little. So CNN is being dipshitty? Water is wet.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
So next is going to be a slaughter
Connecticut (Closed)
Delaware (Closed)
Maryland (Closed)
Pennsylvania (Closed)
Rhode Island (Mixed)
Not even Susan Sarandon will be able to stop the rout.
chopper
@Cacti:
you’re just a regular asshole. not even one of the high quality ones.
Eric U.
@SiubhanDuinne: I got that too, and I unsubscribed. I don’t care how progressive an organization is, I’m not going to listen to someone who is trying to raise money by slandering democrats.
Kropadope
@Mike J: I agree overall with the argument that people who want to participate in their elections need to be familiar with rules governing whether they can vote or not. NY requiring six months for a change of partisan affiliation seems a little extreme though.
Omnes Omnibus
OT: Kristen Stewart is quite lovely, but I have never seen her actually act.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@aimai: Yeah, in hindsight I’m a lot more savvy about it, particularly since Clark came in 5th out of 6 candidates. But my failure to support another candidate like Edwards (2nd place) or Dean (3rd place) doesn’t make Kerry a good choice. Bush was already a disaster as President. He should have been beat. But Kerry was a terrible candidate who ran a terrible campaign where he just let the Bush folks continually pants him.
Kropadope
@Cacti: That donation I just mentioned that I made, let me give you a hint, it was NOT to the campaign that I’ve been referring to as mathematically unlikely for the last month or so and said was all but eliminated tonight.
That doesn’t mean I’m suddenly going to be sympathetic to your idiotic trolling.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
–
Mnemosyne
@Omnes Omnibus:
She’s pretty good in Adventureland. I haven’t seen her in anything else.
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: The fact that is a shitty rule, doesn’t mean it isn’t a rule. You work within the rules that are in place so that you can make changes in the future.
Ruckus
@Gin & Tonic:
While wearing flannel pajamas and 2 condoms.
Omnes Omnibus
@Mnemosyne: I am scared to rent the movie about The Runaways because of her.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: I didn’t say otherwise. But the first step to changing a shitty rule is acknowledging the shittiness of the rule.
Mike J
@SiubhanDuinne:
Emily’s List endorsed somebody who hasn’t already lost three times. I’m sure she’s very nice though.
burnspbesq
@Mike J:
I’m imagining the caravan of Deadheads … err, Berniacs … meandering from state to state in thousands of decrepit old VW buses. Not a pretty image.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@Omnes Omnibus: What brings that up? is she in the news?
Anyways, recently, she was in a pretty funny satire “American Ultra” which you might like (Trailer)
amk
ted crud now finding common cause with bs. nutz.
Mike J
@Kropadope:
I will agree with that, and I hope it gets changed.
pseudonymous in nc
As others have noted, New York state is terribly corrupt at the state government level, and its shitty-weird primary and voting rules are a reflection of this. This does not change the fact that state primaries (or caucuses, or conventions) are still essentially private polls run at the behest of state parties, not actual civic elections, and that treating them as actual civic elections is a category error.
J R in WV
@burnspbesq:
We have a 65 lb 4 year old white lab mix, and hardwood floors, hickory. She makes a lot of noise at dinner time running back and forth, and skidding several feet each time she changes direction.
She makes little high-ptiched barks too, as if she weighed 12 pounds instead of 65 or 70.
I always feed the older dog and the cats, and then Alice last. She is so so anxious for dinner, it’s really funny. And when she gets little meat scraps left over from fixing dinner, wow!!
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Which I did.
burnspbesq
@efgoldman:
If you make that trip on NY5 instead of US20, you go through towns like Amsterdam and Gloversville and you can really see the economic devastation up close and personal
Mike J
@Omnes Omnibus:
She was really good in that. Honest.
Kropadope
@Omnes Omnibus: I know, I just thought the principle was worth stating explicitly.
scav
@Ruckus: Flannels a little soft, Horsehair might be closer — and then, condoms, singular or plural, suggest sex for the sake of quivering pleasure rather than the purpose of quiver-full increase. There must be anti-condoms that eliminate sensation while doing nothing whatsoever against the free migration of sperm.
Omnes Omnibus
@David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch: “Snow White and the Huntsman” is on the the background after I watched the first episode of “The Night Manager.”
redshirt
Meh. Only 300 posts?
Omnes Omnibus
@Kropadope: Cool.
Omnes Omnibus
@scav: Dear fucking god.
Mnemosyne
@pseudonymous in nc:
OT, but here’s a blog post by Amanda Herbert, the researcher whose lecture I saw at the Huntington about the history of the British spa and its importance to public health. She was a Fellow at the Huntington for the past year and will be taking a position at the Folger Shakespeare Library in a couple of months. Her lecture should be showing up on iTunes U fairly soon and is part of the Molina lectures in the history of medicine.
Ruckus
@scav:
The two condoms isn’t about birth control. It’s about having to experience any contact with another human, especially a woman. I mean you know how they are……..
This line came from a fellow at work during the summer I was 14 or 15. Goes something like this, That guy is so afraid of women that he fucks in the dark wearing flannel pajamas and 2 condoms so that he doesn’t have to have any contact with her.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@pseudonymous in nc: I should be allowed to influence organizations I have no interest in joining. Wednesday night I’m going to a Baptist church business meeting to try to vote out the pastor. I’m never been to the church but I fucking hate those pithy little sayings he puts on the church sign out front.
redshirt
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: Make Are Baptist Church Great Again!
magurakurin
@Kropadope:
well beyond the first step in New York.
Democrats Push Universal, Automatic Voter Registration for New York State
what will those whores think up next?
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: This is a propos of…? Oh! I see – she was *great* in The Runaways. Not be scared – she does Joan Jett proud.
Davis X. Machina
@burnspbesq:
Richard Russo country — cf Nobody’s Fool.
Kropadope
@magurakurin:
Man, you must be so excited after months of having to turn to internet randos in other fora to paint Bernie supporters as intemperate to have a real, live, verifiable instance of an intemperate remark by a Bernie supporter. You’re gonna cling to that thing til it suffocates, aren’t you?
scav
@Ruckus: Had a bit of a clue about that which was why I didn’t abandon them entirely, but symbolically they’re still ambiguous. But, I guess so long as they’re holely, they can be holy.
The Lodger
@Mike J: Has he been taking late night phone calls from Hastert again?
Anya
I honestly don’t understand the Sanders campaign. It’s like they looked at Clinton’s 08 campaign’s strategy and they took every single losing one. They even have their own version of Hillary’s “hard-working white Americans” comment.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: I still have reservations. I’ll go ahead though. If she is dead-eyed and blank-faced, I’ll remember those who said otherwise. Just saying.
BTW: The first Ep. of “The Night Manager” was good. The novel is awesome.
David ?Canadian Anchor Baby? Koch
@magurakurin: that’s “unqualified whores”
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: OK, I’m shaking just a *little* at the thought of triggering your disapprobation. However, I will go on record as saying that I thought “The Runaways” rocked suitably.
Not familiar with “The Night Manager”. What is it?
BTW: Got any recommendations for writing music? I mean, music to write by, that is.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@Anya: I bet Sanders will be ready to go in 2024, except for the dead part.
James E Powell
@Omnes Omnibus:
Loved her as Joan Jett
seaboogie
@Tim F.:
You’ll find him via a trail of crumbs and dirty dishes. Only coverage I’ve seen of him recently involves a bunch of photogs a couple feet away while he eats, and eats, and eats… I don’t think he’s hungry for power, he’s just hungry. Maybe he has a tapeworm or something.
Davebo
I think the only question now is will Sanders be able to ignore Tad Devine and make the right move.
You can bet Devine isn’t going to give up the cash cow without a fight.
pseudonymous in nc
@Mnemosyne: thanks: I chased down her CV and web page, and I’m looking forward to hearing that lecture.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Novel by LeCarre. Turned in a six part mini with Hugh Laurie as the bad guy.
ETA: Writing and music depend on mood and type of writing.
Kropadope
@Davebo: Well, fortunately, it’s not really Devine’s call.
Dr.McCoy
@Sophie: The pure glee is repulsive.
Davebo
@Kropadope:
No, but he’s Bernie’s chief strategist. To the tune of $810,000 in February alone.
Apparently $27.00 at a time.
seaboogie
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter:
Sanctimonious “church wit” is nearly on par with smug Republican wit for me. Not remotely as clever as they think they are.
Miss Bianca
@James E Powell: Thank you.
@Omnes Omnibus: Cover letter for a grant. I’m stuck at “send us money or we’ll send clowns”. Which might be a propos for a circus and all, but not tactful. mood therefore frivolous, but edgy.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
Opera is good for historicals, IMO. I need reasonably peppy selections, so lots of Mozart and Handel.
Dr.McCoy
@efgoldman:—– A question, do you not live in a mountain retreat? Somehow I remember that from last fall?
magurakurin
@Kropadope: whatever chief. The Democrats in New York have a bill, in committee, right now, to address the problem that you said first needs to be recognized. I’m proud to be a Democrat. I’m proud of what the party has achieved over the years and what it will continue to achieve. Sorry if that bothers you. I’m not bothered at all. I’m on Cloud Nine right now. Hillary Clinton is going to be the next president of the United States and that is an unqualified wonderful thing.
Kropadope
@Davebo: Well, hopefully Bernie told him tonight in no uncertain terms that the new focus is on working toward leveraging his delegates for influence at the convention, rebuilding partisan comity, and helping the down-ballot folk. Seriously, that is the only conceivable way forward for the ballot box revolution.
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Oohh…JFTR, “Ode for St Cecilia’s Day” and “Alexander’s Feast” show up in my story. Maybe *that*’s what I need. Since I have to get back to that one after the grant letter.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: “Money or Clowns” works for me. But clowns scare me. “Money or Ninjas” would get a different response.
Dr.McCoy
@Kropadope: —Influence to what end? It will not matter after the election, if confirmed.
Kropadope
@magurakurin: I’m glad that they have a bill to address their registration situation and your pride in being a Democrat isn’t what bothers me, it’s your months upon months of uncalled for provocations.
magurakurin
@Kropadope: Then why did Weaver go on television and say they will work in June and July to flip the supers if Sanders loses the delegate count? Bernie Sanders just isn’t the version you keep in your head, just as suspect the version you keep of Hillary Clinton doesn’t reflect much of reality either.
Kropadope
@Dr.McCoy: Party platform, potential appointments for Bernie or some of his better staffers (not, for example, Devine or Weaver).
magurakurin
@Kropadope: Are your feelings hurt? Poor dear, bless your heart.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@seaboogie: At this point, the only thing he can win is hotel stays and concession food.
Davebo
@Kropadope:
I think Bernie will do just that regardless of what Tad tells him.
And Tad’s a major player in the Democratic political movement and I doubt he’s going to burn bridges so you’re probably right.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
I discovered today that if you buy the paper copy of “Georgette Heyer’s Regency World” from Amazon, you can get the Kindle MatchBook for $2.99. Score!
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: you mean, as an extortion threat? Clowns would make you buckle, ninjas would put your dander up?
@Mnemosyne: Ooh, that’s one I’ve got to read…
Dr.McCoy
@Kropadope: I stand by my statement. Kabuki.
Kropadope
@magurakurin: Sanders has said repeatedly, emphatically, that the supers should respect the will of the voters. At this point that damn near certainly will mean supporting Clinton. Knowing you, I would wager on your interpretation of what Weaver said to be dishonest. But even if it isn’t, in the end, Weaver isn’t the shot-caller. Bernie is. Bernie has been saying from day one how important it is a Republican does not get elected and I believe he means it. If Weaver wants to do otherwise, Bernie should go tell him to piss up a rope.
Cacti
You Clinton supporters seem awfully proud of yourselves, but let me tell you something.
The only reason she’s winning is because a majority prefers her over Bernie Sanders. Otherwise, it would be completely different.
So there.
seaboogie
@Omnes Omnibus:
I sometimes feel that folks in government in general feel the need to make more and more rules and laws to justify their their jobs, and what is the limit to that over time? And then I see the obsession of the “small government” folks with their small minds regulate women’s health, where we pee, etc., while giving a free pass to the toxic effects of greed and petty authoritarianism, and I’m all like “oh yeah – that’s why we need to keep making laws and changing the rules”.
Omnes Omnibus
@Miss Bianca: Clowns would? I don’t know. Creepy fuckers. Ninjas don’t fit my personal terrors.
Kropadope
@magurakurin: Do my feeling have to be hurt for me to point out that you’re a fucking troll? No, my feelings aren’t hurt. I’m just not gonna put up with the bullshit.
Miss Bianca
@Cacti: Well. I’m glad we got *that* straightened out.
Davebo
@Kropadope:
Actually, the more I think about it the more worried I get.
Devine may not have the influence on Bernie I thought he did. Odds are good that at one point he told Bernie “now’s a bad time to take off to Rome”. In fact I’m almost certain he would.
burnspbesq
@Miss Bianca:
Bach, especially the Brandenburgs.
Kropadope
@Davebo:
Care to clarify the bolded parts, please? No comprendo.
Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter
@Kropadope: Are you fucking serious? You have started fight after fight, day after day in here for months and now you’re trying to pretend 1. you were the one discounting Sanders chances and 2. being victimized?
Please go away.
Frankensteinbeck
@Kropadope:
You, personally, started out very polite and open to debate, and I think you have been ill served, no matter how strongly I disagree with your positions. Nevertheless, the venom you stepped into was started by Sanders supporters, who came here and called Hillary a Republican, and dished up arguments that were pure conspiracy theory, including passive-aggressive taunts on the actual front page by Hillary Rettig. Hillary supporters got royally pissed about it, and you unfairly took a lot of it. I think the particular turning point on that was when so many of us found out about the Sanders campaign (and top level operatives at that) stealing the Clinton campaign’s data by Sanders supporters here claiming it was a plot to cheat Sanders. Applejinx was particularly unhinged and insulting about it, and admitted that was deliberate. Even now, it is Sanders supporters doxing and threatening reporters they disagree with, engaging in hostile publicity stunts, and being loudly obnoxious at primaries and caucuses. There is no equivalent on the Hillary side. Sanders supporters started the fight, and have been the worst about it, and you were caught in the cross-fire when the main Ballon Juice ‘snarling jackals’ squad decided they couldn’t take it anymore and hit back.
Omnes Omnibus
@seaboogie: How do you pick a new leader? Combat? Discussion? Who makes the rules? Etc? There is a whole academic area discussing that. It’s only my BA; I’ll let any PhD around talk about it.
burnspbesq
AP still won’t call the last eight delegates, even with 98 percent of the vote counted. Count is stuck on 135-104 for Clinton.
amk
@burnspbesq:
gopoitico sez it’s 169-104 out of 273/291 allocated with 98.5% votes/counties counted.
who is right?
Miss Bianca
@Omnes Omnibus: Clowns were always a personal terror of mine. Also, Santa Claus. I pitched a fit when I was about four at the Christmas party where my dad taught – he had to be Santa Claus that year, and I refused to sit on his lap. Finally, he had to whisper, “Quiet, you little sh*t, it’s me”, which had a wonderfully calming effect, you can be sure. H’mm…maybe that was when the penny finally dropped about Santa Claus.
Miss Bianca
@burnspbesq: thanks!
seaboogie
@Omnes Omnibus: Well, it seems that Trump and Sanders and their supporters seem to have forgotten that the nomination is not the general and that the two main parties and the individual states make their own rules. I kind of miss living in Canada, the parliamentary system and the brevity of the election cycle. It seems so much saner. Plus the possibility of non-confidence votes. That’s a real plus too.
nutella
@Davebo:
Too late. Way too late.
The best thing that Sanders can do now is take a day or two to rest and think about his recent mistakes and how to avoid any more. And then fire Weaver and Devine.
And continue to compete in the remaining primaries with his campaign staff led by whoever told him NOT to do most of what he did in the last week.
patroclus
Kropadope’s been realistic for some time about Bernie’s chances. He supports him, but he’s been willing to acknowledge some misguided campaign tactics and mistakes. He’s not the enemy; he’s a potential ally. I don’t understand why we have to continue to bait Bernie’s supporters after we’ve essentially won. But I agree that Bernie needs to tamp down some of the negative campaigning and send signals to his supporters to return to the issue focus he maintained up until about two weeks ago. Calling Hillary unqualified, having surrogates call her a whore, having supporters fling dollar bills at her like she’s a stripper, insinuate that’s she’s corrupt, insinuate that the entire Democratic party is corrupt, insult Southern states and voters – all of that needs to stop. I have no problem with him continuing to campaign until June or even, like Hart and Jerry Brown, to take it to the convention, but the negative tone needs to stop.
Kropadope
@Just Some Fuckhead, Clinton Supporter: I started fights for a few weeks after putting up with bullshit for several months. Cacti, magura, and a few others have been unrelenting in their assholishness the whoooole time. If you care to look back those conversations where I did, indeed, start fights; you might take note of the fact that people were saying it didn’t sound like me. You could go back further where I was absolutely trying to debate people reasonably. During this stage I’d participate in an occasional fight, but there was always a direct provocation.
I don’t understand why I need to have infinite patience for guff while others can fling insults with impunity.
By the way, please find me one instance, one…anywhere…where I made unrealistic assertions about Sanders’s odds.
Dr.McCoy
@efgoldman: My apologies at the inference.
nutella
@Linnaeus:
Ugh, it had better broaden. I am reminded of the kepone scandal of 1975 where Allied Chemical set up a fake subsidiary to produce the poison kepone that it wanted but didn’t want to deal with manufacturing issues. So the fake subsidiary poisoned its own employees, who didn’t know they were dealing with a poison, and ran plenty of overflow into the sewer system of Hopewell VA. Huge scandal, people poisoned, James River closed to fishing and how many people got convicted? One guy, the city sewer plant manager, who tried his best to deal with a totally poisoned sewage plant. Not one of the Allied or fake-subsidiary managers who set up the poisoning scheme spent a minute in jail.
I hope Michigan nails the planners, not just the little guys.
Kropadope
@Frankensteinbeck: @patroclus: Thank you. I know I’m perfectly capable of being a pain in the ass. I even spent a few weeks being one deliberately, but I’m glad a few people take enough notice to see past that.
patroclus
@Frankensteinbeck: That’s one thing I don’t like about Clinton’s campaign as opposed to Obama’s 2008 campaign. I don’t recall Obama ever having a pack of “snarling jackals” – instead, he was so disciplined that his supporters followed his lead and didn’t do much of it, even when provoked. Sanders and Clinton have some policy disagreements, but compared to the differences with the Republicans, they’re relatively small, Issue-wise, I don’t think unifying will be that much of a problem. Hillary needs to pivot and steal/absorb some of Bernie’s positions and rhetoric in order to attract his supporters; especially the millenials. I hope she’s capable of this.
John D.
@CONGRATULATIONS!:
uh, no.
For starters, the exit poll refactoring is done by the company that provides the exit poll data to the media, not Nate Silver. For second, this is always done — see the Mystery Pollster, question 5
Linnaeus
@nutella:
I hope so, too, but I have to confess some concern that that won’t happen. Perhaps I’m being unfairly cynical, but I don’t trust Bill Schuette, the Republican attorney general of Michigan (this is the same guy who wasted time and money litigating marriage equality in the federal courts). He’s been preparing to run for governor for years and now that Rick Snyder is term-limited, Schuette will almost certainly run for the Republican nomination in 2018. Something like this will allow him to claim that not only is he untainted by the Flint water crisis (since his office is independent of Snyder’s administration) but that he did something about it. Which is not to say that the people he’s going after shouldn’t be charged, but I question how high he’ll go. Going after the planners could undermine the political relationships and instruments that he will want to have should he be elected governor in 2018, and I’m not convinced he’ll go there.
Felanius Kootea
Probably no one is reading any more but it just struck me – so far Hillary has 1,037,344 votes in the New York primary. Bernie has 752,739 votes. Trump has 518,601. Hillary got more votes than the entire Republican field combined. Bernie got more votes than Trump and Kasich combined. Has this pattern of voter turnout been the same in other states? If so, it bodes well for the Dems in November.
seaboogie
@Felanius Kootea: Thank you!
Mike J
@patroclus:
If she does they say she’s pandering.
Matt McIrvin
@Davebo: Exit polls have an undeserved reputation for accuracy, but they are usually rife with sampling problems. When media outlets report exit pool results usually they are massively recalibrated to reflect actual returns over the course of the night. If early exit results get leaked, before there has been any recalibration, usually they’re worse at predicting the outcome than polls taken on election eve. A notorious example of that was the early exits in the 2004 general election that made it seem like Kerry was pulling ahead.
Matt McIrvin
@Felanius Kootea: No, in many swing states RepublIcan primary turnout was much higher and it caused a lot of worry about a Trump landslide. In practice there’s little correlation between these things. Democratic primary voters weren’t voting against Trump.
Frankensteinbeck
@patroclus:
You misunderstand me. “Snarling Jackals” is in one of Balloon Juice’s rotating taglines, and refers to the tendency of the local commenters to get, uh… heated. It has nothing to do with Sanders or Clinton. So it has always been. I prefer the polite discussions, but I recognize that it is part of the site.
Applejinx
@The Thin Black Duke: I think that doesn’t matter now. I think that (mensch or putz) is what happened in New York already… and it’s a valuable preview of how things could go in the general election. If Bernie hadn’t got more aggressive things might—might—have gone differently.
It’s too early to say what’s going to happen, because I already know how some people (ahem, posters) will react/are reacting and that’s not the important thing. There’s only one important thing.
What Hillary Clinton does, and which way she triangulates. She will go with where she sees the true electorate’s wishes, whether it’s good or bad for the country, because that’s just how Clintons roll. And it really can cut both ways: it’s not a foregone conclusion (other than social justice: pretty confident that is a Clintonian reward for loyalty given and that ain’t shit)
If she co-opts the issues Bernie raises (fuck knows he hasn’t had anything else going for him: the money was for the issues, he was just the messenger all along) that means one thing.
If she runs AGAINST those issues and goes all ‘right to aspire’ on our asses, that means another thing.
Strange times we live in :/
Applejinx
@Chyron HR: …at carrying the message?
Do you of all people want Bernie responsible for implementing and administrating that message? Seems like you should be grateful. And if you think, after all this, that it’s a personality cult with no coherent message to convey, I really don’t know how it could be made any clearer.
Do you not think there has been an element of ‘our old State Senator is just as good or better at implementing all of this’ in the New York results? Do you not think people are reacting (for good or ill: too soon to tell) like ‘right message, wrong messenger’ and defecting to Clinton?
From everything I’ve seen the Clinton vote is not a vote cast against the Sanders platform. If anything, it is ‘all this is too important to gamble with’.
I don’t think a Cruz or Trump would represent that platform well (though Trump could try, if he doesn’t fall apart into thrashing incoherence first… wait, ‘first’?). Clinton will choose whether she represents it or not, and blogposters and bernfeelers have no control over how she reads the tea leaves.
Applejinx
@lamh36: Fuck Weaver. We didn’t start out like that.
I’ve never, never stopped funding Bernie’s campaign but the point where his campaign manager is actively betraying his message by antagonizing those who’d have to take it over, is the point where I say fuck Weaver. And accept that, in enthusiasm, I let it go too far already.
“The amendment king” is better than this. The campaign managers are not. Fuck them, they’re endangering the message (already) and threatening to endanger it worse.
Joel
@Mike J: Every analyst has their own way of interpreting polls and other data; 538 uses a certain brand of special sauce and it isn’t working very well.
Chyron HR
@Applejinx:
That comment is making fun of Weaver for the exact same TV appearance you’ve been complaining about all night.
Applejinx
@Chyron HR: Oh, you meant Weaver! D:
…I dunno. I think if it’s ‘manipulating an idealistic pol and maximizing the grift I can get out of him’, he’s very ‘good at this’ indeed.
All night? I got up at 4. I hadn’t had my coffee yet and thought you meant Sanders should take up basketweaving, that being the sort of thing I’m real used to seeing around here.
If people, observing that Bernie’s not going to be the nominee, are cool with blaming Weaver, I can only go along with that, with some added vitriol that it’s MY candidate his meddling fucked with. Everybody I know understands that it’s the platform, not the person, and yet it’s been more and more about the person and now I think I see how that happened. Somebody stood to gain from that mistake being made, and it ain’t Bernie: it’s not nearly as bad as with Trump, but I don’t think Bernie wants to be President as much as he wants these issues raised.
Welp, if that’s so, then Bernie gets to fall back on being the ‘Amendment King’ and shape the platform (if all goes well and Weaver GsTFO). I don’t honestly believe Hillary cares nearly as much about the platform as her coronation and that’s an opportunity waiting to help everyone in the Dem tent: she can be Queen if we get to set the platform, she’s even rather good at delivering results to back the pandering.
And Trump is stuck on the hot-seat, having won New York. Got to love New York: power uber alles. I think it’s an appropriate outcome even though I’d have liked a Bernie win (in the context of what Weaver’s done, and in retrospect, that would’ve been worrying: not okay to take the nomination by manipulating Bernie’s least useful qualities. It’s NOT about him)
BruceFromOhio
Well said.
@Applejinx:
I hadn’t had my coffee yet and thought you meant Sanders should take up basketweaving, that being the sort of thing I’m real used to seeing around here.
I hope he continues to do what he’s been doing, waking people up. And I hope he’s around for a good long time to keep doing it.
The Thin Black Duke
@Applejinx: Time to retire the “coronation” bullshit, dude. It’s lazy, wrong-headed and misogynistic.
Brinks Truck Driver
@Joe Bauers: You’re really just too good for this website.
Applejinx
@The Thin Black Duke: Bernie was angling for a coronation too. He didn’t start out that way. Trump’s TOTALLY wanting one. Goes with the territory. It’s a little dismaying to see how literally everybody running for President falls for that, but I guess it’s human nature: and it’s certainly not misogynistic when every male in the race including Sanders wants to be King.
I mean, look at Cruz. Dude wants to be God-King. Hillary only wants to be America’s Princess or something to that effect. With the amount of pomp and nonsense around the Presidency it’s silly not to acknowledge somebody’s gonna be coronated. Question is what will they do then?
Uncle Cosmo
@seaboogie: Yeah, they stumble onto a 7th-grade-level play on words & post it like it deserves a Pulitzer. Barf.
Hurling Dervish
@efgoldman: Better known as “the Athens of north-central Rhode Island,” or, “the Gateway to Woonsocket.”