As you all know, I try to stay out of domestic politics in my writing here, except where the foreign policy stuff that I focus on – such as the maskirovka series – crosses the boundaries. I also don’t think that despite my staying out of the domestic politics arena here there are too many of you wondering how I view domestic or foreign policy. So I want to focus a moment on where things go from here. What has to happen, what needs to happen going forward is that we need to hold the line.
We need to hold the line because America is an ideal, a set of ideas, that don’t belong to any of us specifically. Rather we hold them in trust for each other. If we give up on the ideal, if we refuse to continue to fight for it, then we have no reason to hold the line. Now is the time to hold that line. Now is the time to dig in and, amazingly enough be conservative – conserve and preserve as much of the status quo as possible. To stand and yell stop! We do this by holding everyone’s feet to the fire regarding that ideal. Ideas can’t be killed. Signals can’t be stopped. Unless we stop believing in them and transmitting them.
Civic action is not the construction of privies or the distribution of anti-malaria sprays. One can’t fight an ideology; one can’t fight a militant doctrine with better privies. Yet this is done constantly. One side says, “land reform,” and the other side says, “better culverts.” One side says, “We are going to kill all those nasty village chiefs and landlords.” The other side says, “Yes, but look, we want to give you prize pigs to improve your strain.” These arguments just do not match. Simple but adequate appeals will have to be found sooner or later.
While I think many of us would agree that the ideas put forward by Secretary Clinton, even though they weren’t perfect, were, overall, the better ideas in this specific election, they weren’t received as such. And I think we all agree that we really don’t know what President Elect Trump’s ideas really are given how all over the map he and his surrogates have been over the course of the now completed campaign. What needs to be done, to fully embrace Fall’s strategic wisdom, is to figure out how to change the frequency, so to speak, so that better ideas are not only transmitted, but received. Right now that means holding fast to the understanding that America is a set of ideas, an ideal. And that those ideas, that ideal are worth fighting for within the political arena. That is the challenge for all Americans – liberal or conservative – who were concerned with Trump’s candidacy and are concerned with the potential coming Trump Administration. America has come through many dark periods bloodied, but unbowed. Now, as then, is the time to plant our feet, yell stop, take the political punch, and hold the line. We hold the line for our friends, families, for those we agree with and those we don’t, and for those yet to come who we hold America as an ideal for in trust.
I’m not a big believer in indispensable people or Nations, but right now – for good or for bad – a significant portion of the world depends on us. Not only are our own, but many other states and societies have their people in harms way, in contact with ISIL and other reactionary forces, and if we go to pieces we do none of them any good. Right now a lot of states and societies in Europe, as well as in Australia and Israel, are grappling with similar societal divisions, rancor, and acrimony. How we handle this transition from the Obama Administration to the Trump Administration and how we hold the line to preserve the American ideal signals to them how to hold their own lines. Whether its in Germany or France, which are the next two European states up in this fight against reactionary nationalism and xenophobic isolationism. Or Montenegro that just fought off a coup believed to be supported by Russia. Or the people of Turkey who are themselves seeing a consolidation of power and authority within the hands of an increasingly autocratic and dictatorial Erdogan. And for our allies and partners in Ukraine, Latvia, Lithuania, and Estonia who are worried about Russian aims and expansionism. Falling upon each other and tearing ourselves apart will not do us or them any good.
As I put in a comment last night: my service, whether as a term appointed civil servant or a contractor, is to the Constitution and through it to the American people. This is the case for every single national security professional I have ever met – uniformed or civilian, liberal or conservative, Democrat or Republican. We serve an ideal and a set of ideas on behalf of all Americans. An electoral majority of those Americans chose to elect Donald Trump as the next President. They’ve chosen to give him unified Republican control over the Federal legislature. If you disagree, if you think this is a mistake you have to respect these electoral outcomes if you ever expect, even if its a fool’s expectation, that your preferred electoral outcomes will be respected when they occur. For good, bad, or otherwise Donald Trump is our next President and he has, for now, unified GOP control over the Federal legislature. Now is the time to hold to the ideal of America. The ideas that are America. You want a more perfect union? Hold the line. You want to provide for the general welfare? Hold the line.
Yutsano
False. Trump did not win the popular vote. It’s possible this class of people did but Americans in general did not.
guachi
I was talking with a fellow sailor this morning. She was distraught.
She explained that she had been sexually assaulted and her case dropped (while her assailant is being commissioned)
The thought of a serial sexual assaulter as her Commander in chief was making it hard for her to work today. She’s going to ask our CO if they can speed up her medical discharge. She (and I) are embarrassed to wear the uniform.
Would that there were some honorable officers who would resign rather than serve under Trump.
SiubhanDuinne
@Yutsano:
I believe that by “an electoral majority,” Adam was referring to votes in the Electoral College, not the popular vote.
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: That’s why I wrote electoral, as in electoral college, not popular majority.
Shalimar
We elected a future dictator. That is what the Republican voters who put Trump in office want. They are Republicans before they are Americans, party before country, always. This is the end of American democracy.
D. Mason
I think if you asked most people they would have preferred Clintons stated Ideas, but they didn’t trust her to carry them out either because she wasn’t stating a true position or because she was ineffective. Trump won because the DNC failed to put up a candidate more acceptable than him.
ETA: If I were a Democratic party insider I would be looking for a ground up restructuring to make sure no part of the apparatus that allowed this could remain.
chopper
i’m all about fighting, but first i’m gonna have to sit shiva here. i’m sorry, but i just can’t even with this shit.
Tootired
Seriously, hold their feet to the fire? We have been shown by our media, many of our fellow citizens that they don’t care. There are no repercussions. To top it off, women have been told that we are objects. When a man can be elected president after what Trump has said and done to women, do you really think those lovely ideals are going to help keep women from being sexually assaulted, objectified, raped, degraded?
retr2327
Adam, let me just say I appreciate your voice, your ideals, your ideas, and your writing.
That said, it’s going to take some time before I feel like doing anything; right now, I wonder if I’ll even bother to vote next time.
But thanks for trying.
mai naem mobile
@D. Mason: oh,go fucking off. You aren’t going to hijack another thread troll.
MomSense
@Adam L Silverman:
Are the individuals who comprise our electoral college sort of like the nation’s super delegates? If they were presented with information about Trump’s connections/obligations/conflicting loyalties with respect to Russia, might they consider voting their consciences and not based on their state’s vote?
hueyplong
Enjoyed reading your essay, Adam. A nice distraction from the ongoing mental listing of horribles. These people will be limited only by their consciences and senses of propriety, and we’ve seen no evidence of either to date. Bearing ourselves as you suggest might not change many outcomes, but it’s what we need to do as patriots, as opposed to the faux patriots that will be so in evidence.
Major Major Major Major
Thanks, Adam.
My Hillary-generation mom writes
Another Scott
Well said, Adam.
There have been lots of “explanations” for what happened, as there always are. It’s a horrible result and a lot of people will be needlessly hurt over the coming years. But we have to accept it as a legitimate result and work to make sure our candidates find the way to get more support going forward.
We can’t wash our hands of our country, and we can’t give up. We need to be smart and empathetic and determined to be better.
Hang in there, everyone.
Cheers,
Scott.
Mnemosyne
Republican voters wanted white supremacy, and they voted for it.
Democratic voters wanted inclusiveness, and they voted for it.
Their signal drowned ours out. Again.
Repatriated
@MomSense: I recall the warrantless wiretapping story held by the NYT until after the ’04 election.
mai naem mobile
I am just wondering how you hold the line with no preaidency,no senate and no house and Mitch blowing the nuclear option with filibusters. I feel sorry for the Obamas. Hell, I would make sure the transfer of power meeting is taped so the mofo can lie about it but Obama has the tape to show otherwise. Still cannot use the T word with POTUS.
D. Mason
@mai naem mobile: Silencing voices of disagreement has worked so well for the hard left lately, why stop now? AMIRITE??? LOL
Adam L Silverman
@guachi: I realize I’m just a schmuck, silly civilian that was fortunate enough to get to play Soldier without actually having to be one, but as someone who lives in the same world you do I’d like to offer a recommendation rooted in an observation. This does not apply to your colleague who has a driving reason/need for separation from her service obligations.
The observation: you don’t serve the President. You don’t serve the Congress. You serve the Constitution and through it the American people. The recommendation: if you decide to stop serving because of an electoral outcome, because you can’t stomach the idea of who would be at the apex of the chain of command as President, then all you’re doing is vacating the battlespace for those that have no such qualms at all. So I would suggest that if you can do so, you stay. You set the example. You be the member of the Profession of Arms that the rest of us need you to be.
I’m not trying to guilt trip you. If you were planning to retire had we elected George Pataki because you’ve done all you could or should, then stick to the plan. But if this is simply the result of the election’s outcomes, I’d strongly recommend taking some time, thinking about it, and considering whether you’re not doing even more of a service by not removing someone of quality from service when they’re needed more than ever.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Yes, we know you just have an instinctive, innate feeling you can’t trust Hillary.
It’s called misogyny. It’s also why you still live with your mom.
Poopyman
@Major Major Major Major: I’ll have whatever she’s having.
Dow is up 166. WTF is going on?
WarMunchkin
To be honest, I don’t 100% understand the content of what you’ve written here.
Are we holding the line for our policies? (we can’t, due to total control for Rs).
Holding the line for participation? (Join the FBI, work in civil service, do the hard work of actually governing that’s applicable with a D or an R in office).
Holding the line for our democratic institutions? (Accepting the result of this election and doing everything we can to make sure that the next 8 years are successful).
The last two I think are valid, but the last one in particular is going to be nauseating.
gene108
I don’t think Republicans – the McConnell and Ryan wing – really feel that’s true anymore.
I agree with your thesis, but Republicans seem to only care about institutions and ideals in how it will help them maintain power.
This is why we have voter suppression laws, aggressive gerrymandering, etc. As well as unprecedented obstruction of President Obama.
And they are never going to change unless they lose for decades, which does not seem to be happening.
It’s worth fighting for, but one Party is fighting against it.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Ah, the guy who couldn’t be arsed to vote because Hillary didn’t lead a shiny unicorn into his yard.
With apologies to the others present, I really hate all of you whiny white men right now. Fucking toddlers. Mommy Hillary wouldn’t hold your hand and change your diaper, so you held your breath until you turned blue.
SiubhanDuinne
@Major Major Major Major:
Your mom is awesome, and I love her. Especially when she’s mad.
Hill Dweller
Once again, PBO shows more class, grace and dignity in 10 minutes than Trump has in his entire life.
Tom Levenson
Thanks Adam. I agree. Holding the line is key — but what I need now, and haven’t accomplished yet, is the modality to do that. What do I, a guy with a keyboard in Boston, do to get my part done in making sure the idea of America as, say, Obama lived it holds out for the tough years to come.
I do think we’ll get some help from the other side. Talk of “liberty” and “Constitutional government” changes valence when abortion rights really do disappear; when your kid can’t stay on your insurance and needs it and all the rest. But even if its likely that the maelstrom of Republican policy wrecks a lot of lives and thus earns the kind of opprobrium that it shouldn’t take slapping one’s palm onto a hot stove to figure out, that’s not enough. Like you say, it’ll take ideas and specific actions. Just not sure yet what my part of that most usefully can be.
Shalimar
@D. Mason: If you were a Democratic party insider, you would give up all the power you and everyone you knew in the organization had spent decades building up by working to elect Democrats, and give it to people who haven’t made any of those sacrifices? Well, isn’t that fucking special. Maybe if you had spent time working to elect Democrats in the past instead of not even bothering to vote, you could have that power too.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: Or it could be because she lied repeatedly and got caught? I dunno. On a separate note, how would living with ones mother prove they were a misogynist?
Adam L Silverman
@chopper: @retr2327: I’m saying you have to start pushing back today. Everyone processes losses differently. And, to be honest, we don’t know the terrain yet. Tomorrow the House GOP reconvenes to pick its leadership for the next term. Let’s see how that shakes out. Do we have to be concerned with Paul Ryan’s Better Way platform going forward or something Congressman Jordan comes up with? Hell, can they even pass a budget? They couldn’t with a 234 seat majority and a GOP majority Senate, what makes you think they’re going to be any better able to do so now? They dislike and distrust each other as much as anyone else.
To quote John Wesley: “I am always in haste, I am never in a hurry.”
hueyplong
@Poopyman: I’d guess the markets panicked so much in the immediate surprise of last night that they adjusted upward at the mere rising of the sun today.
People act like markets are perfectly efficient, but at times they overreact just like we do.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: Race and sex based insults hurled at white men got out the vote really well this year didn’t they? Drag out the fainting couches folks we got us a sore loser right here.
MomSense
@Repatriated:
I remember it well as I was personally caught up in it because I was a member of a coalition of peace and justice groups in Maine.
Adam L Silverman
@MomSense: Yes and no. Basically we don’t elect the President, we elect a slate of electors by party at each state that is then obligated (the rules are a bit different between states) to cast their votes for the nominee of the party that wins the majority in each state. Would it be possible for enough to switch? Sure. Will it happen? No.
Shalimar
@Poopyman: I hope the Dow holds steady until Trump actually takes office. Let him shoulder the complete blame for the market collapse that will come from his policies.
D. Mason
@Shalimar: Refusal to acknowledge what went wrong this cycle will simply lead to 8 years of Trump. The party is what went wrong, it needs to be fixed thoroughly.
Lit3Bolt
Nope.
We’re done.
You can try to hold the line, but the other side has all the magic markers.
The Nazis won, and will continue to win and be pandered to.
Adam L Silverman
@Major Major Major Major: I recommend the purple stretchy pants!
Tom Levenson
I want to add one more thing. My wife just came into my office from a phone call with a friend. We’d been at her daughter’s bat mitzvah two Saturdays ago. This morning, our friend said, her daughter came downstairs crying, asking if the election meant they’d separate out her family, just like they did in Germany.
Fuck.
Just fuck.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
Adam, thank you for your clarity. I know you are right. But at this moment I can’t even. I have friends who voted for the Thing, whose policies will directly hurt other mutual friends of ours. There are people on my FB feed who voted third party acting like they’re above it all and are amused–I wish I was kidding–about how things came out and how everyone is feeling. Seriously considering doing what someone in another thread suggested — cancel the landline and the cable, save every penny and GTFO.
bluehill
@Poopyman: I think the market is in sell the rumor buy the news phase. In other words, the uncertainty of the election is over so that removes the large near-term unknown. Of course, it hasn’t started to price in what Trump will do, but I’m guessing that’s because there are few indications of what he will do. The market could begin to react when we find out who’s going to be in the cabinet.
SenyorDave
I’m starting to think this was an election that any Democrat would have had trouble winning. There’s a real problem in this country in that we just elected a man who:
1. Had no coherent policies other than “I will be fix all the problems”
2. Lied almost any time he presented a fact
3. Is a documented cheat in business, in addition to running numerous cons such as Tumrp U
4. Admitted and bragged to the fact that he is a sexual predator ON CAMERA
5. Has a campaign CEO who runs a website that is essentially a clearinghouse for white supremacists (how this didn’t become a story with the media I’ll never understand.)
6. Is overtly racist, sexist
Its stunning when you realize the sitting president has a 55% approval rating, came into office in the midst of the worst economic times since the Depression, and the president elect openly race baited him with the Birther issue.
I do think ultimately the emails/Clinton Foundation combination ended up working by reducing enthusiasm, especially among women. Aside from the insane idea that any woman would even consider voting for a sexual predator (and IMO, probably a rapist) for any office, I would have assumed that the women of this country would be pretty jazzed up to vote for Clinton. It turns out women of color were, other women, not so much.
raven
The early Marine units in Vietnam had Combined Action Program (CAP’s) and they were as successful as anything we tried in that cluster fuck. Small teams actually lived in the villages and work with the people. Westy didn’t like that shit and the largely Army failed to follow suit.
JPL
@Hill Dweller: I couldn’t watch. I’m just not there yet.
Shalimar
@D. Mason: I am a white man, and I didn’t notice any race or sex-based insults hurled at me personally this year. Just the white male idiots who were Trump supporters and/or Bernieorbusters.
jacy
I did a clean-up on my social media today — not putting up with shit. And said this to those left, as I say to all of you here:
One more thing. History is a long slog of adaptation and evolution. It’s not pretty, and never has been. We are bright, little lights that burn for a short time, and the best thing we can do is to always do the best we can do. Take care of yourselves, take care of your tribe, however big your tribe is and whoever it encompasses. Keep going forward, and always let your hope outweigh your despair. And for anybody who needs me, I’m here for you. You are all my tribe.
Now, back to work, because the only way forward is forward, dammit.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Yes, sadly, we underestimated the emotional maturity of the majority of white men. We thought you were actual adults. Bad on us.
And, please, detail Hillary’s many lies for us. Here, I’ll spot you three: sniper fire, Bengazi, and emails. Go!
Adam L Silverman
@WarMunchkin: All three to the extent possible. The GOP spent how long without the Presidency or without a majority in one or more chambers? Did they ever stop trying to gum things up. As of January the GOP will be in control of everything. It is easy to put sand in the gears of America’s government process because it was never intended to function efficiently to begin with.
Shalimar
@D. Mason: Where would your hypothetical Democratic party leaders to replace all the current ones at every level come from? People like you who don’t even vote? How is that going to fix any problems?
ETA: That would be like saying the US National Team would win the World Cup in soccer if we just replaced all the current players with people who don’t even play soccer.
catclub
@MomSense:
As George Bush put it on SNL: “nah gonna happen”
Adam L Silverman
@gene108: You build strategy based on capabilities, not intentions. You plan based on capabilities, not intentions. In this case we have the advantage of knowing the intentions, but it doesn’t ultimately matter what Ryan or McConnell think. Just what they can or might do.
guachi
@Adam L Silverman:
I appreciate the sentiment. Two things bother me about Trump re: the military. One, more illegal or barely legal spying. Given what I do, it’s s very real possibility I’ll be involved if it happens again. One of my Arabic classmates was in the news years ago for describing what he did – search David Murfee Faulk.
The second is torture. For some reason, it really, really bothers me. More than the usual “torture is bad”. I’d never be involved in it, but I’d be so ashamed if the military or our country did it again.
And if my heart isn’t in it and I’m just punching the clock for my retirement, is feel ashamed everything I cashed a pay check with your tax dollars.
Yes, I’d be giving up. But it’s hard to describe feeling ashamed of the uniform I’m currently wearing. I enlisted 2 weeks after 9/11. This isn’t what I envisioned.
Tom Levenson
One small bright spot folks (I’ll take what I can get). NH is all in and Maggie Hassan has a 612 vote lead (out of more than 600,000 cast), and has claimed victory.
There will be a recount, but it’s better to go into that process ahead than not. Here’s hoping it holds up.
geg6
I get what you’re saying here, Adam.
But I’m out. I don’t know if I’ll ever jump in again. I’m too old for this and I’ve been fighting this fight since 1976. I don’t have the energy or the idealism or even the desire to keep up the fight. My fellow citizens certainly don’t seem to give a damn about, so I’m not sure why I’ve kept up the fight this long.
Perhaps I’ll calm down in a few days, weeks, months or years. But I just don’t see it. I only have another 20 or so years, at most, to live. I don’t have kids. I don’t see why I should put myself through this any more. I’m trying to figure out what to do for myself, my John and my pups and my immediate family (sisters, BILs and nieces). They are the only things I care about now. I want us to be safe.
I don’t know whether to laugh or cry today. On top of all this angst, I just found out I am getting a gigantic raise. In the thousands, not some stupid 1.5 to 2% like we usually get that nets me $20 or so extra a month. Talk about your seesawing emotions. When my boss called me in to tell me, I burst into tears. He knows how emotional I was today to start with and this whipsaw of emotions just did me in.
NMgal
Thank you, Adam. Bookmarking to read again later when my brain is a little less shocky. I appreciate your approach and clarity as always.
Kryptik
What line is there to actually hold anymore?
The GOP essentially runs EVERYTHING now. They have all the goddamn Golden Tickets, a compliant media extra cowed by the violence promised against them, and most assuredly the feeling that minority populations can go fuck themselves off to some other country because the election proved they don’t matter and that this is a White America forever and anon.
What fucking line can we hold anymore, when they have the power to erase the lines at full fucking will now?
God, help me, I know I’m being hyperbolic, but it feels like a total dead end now. We’ve LOST, not just an election, but America. We have no country anymore, America just screamed we don’t belong and is ready to prove it for the next 4 years.
gene108
@D. Mason:
Huh?
Hillary did not lie that much for a politician. There’s charts from the fact checkers about how honest politicians are. She scores fairly well.
Also, Trump was a model of honesty?
Good grief….
chopper
@Tom Levenson:
yeah, the mood at the kiddo’s jewish nursery school this morning was pretty somber.
Mnemosyne
@Shalimar:
I do feel that I should say that if you are a white man who voted for Hillary rather than staying home pouting, then we’re cool. Thank you for doing your part.
For the others, I’m afraid I have to bring back a dreaded word: “dudebros.” Dudebros couldn’t vote for Hillary because, like, she’s a liar and she’s not hot and she reminds them of their mom who’s a total bitch and always telling them to get off the couch.
Elizabelle
Kind of OT, but unusually short Margaret and Helen, in its entirety:
I wonder about the “Washington moves mercifully slow” part in the situation into which our wise American voters just dumped us. To see.
President Obama was calm and reassuring in his remarks. What a difference 24 hours makes. He did remind his audience that the sun came up today.
Shalimar
@Mnemosyne: Agree completely. There was only one sane choice in this election and no excuse for not voting.
Adam L Silverman
@Tom Levenson: The GOP has controlled both the House and the Senate for two years. They can’t produce a budget with their majorities or individual appropriations bills or disaster relief funding or do much of anything but go on vacation and/or campaign for reelection or hold pointless hearings. Six more seats in the House and a (nominally) GOP president waiting to sign something isn’t going to change the GOP House and Senate caucuses’ own dysfunction. And even when they could pass something, repeal and replace Obamacare or that whacky foreign affairs thing, when they got the veto override on the latter they freaked out the next day because they couldn’t have been bothered to 1) read the policy analysis of what that legislation would have done on the front end and 2) the President’s veto statement on the back end. They have not shown any sign they have any actual talent or ability for to actually do their jobs at a minimum of competency. Having four more votes and a President waiting to sign something doesn’t change the fact that they can’t actually produce anything for a President to sign to begin with.
Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA
Adam, thanks for your writing and your insight, but what if nobody has any use for our ideals or our better ideas? Because from where I’m sitting, it looks like I need to mentally prepare for the economic crash that will lead to my eventual job loss, and the gutting of my 401(k) and social security, and I’m so very happy for early menopause so I don’t have to personally worry about losing my abortion rights. But hey, our ideas are better!
And Obama did nothing but put forth better ideas. Now we have President-Elect fucking Trump. This bastard makes Bush the Lesser look smart.
Sorry, Adam. I’ll re-read after I’ve calmed down a bit. I’m just angry at the fucking world today.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Tom Levenson:
And you have only urself to blame.
Fearmongering about the second coming of Hitler was Clintons campaign strategy.
It didn’t work.
Villago Delenda Est
OK, totally OT, but I’m getting disconnects that send me to the Yahoo Error handler CONSTANTLY on BJ. No other site does this to me, only BJ, so it’s something at BJ.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: And we’re very sure that it won’t come to pass, aren’t we?
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Since I see this argument is still going on, and I suspect it will for a while, reposted:
MomSense
@Tom Levenson:
When der Trump came to Maine to rally with LePage he riled the crowd up with hate and fear about our Somali neighbors. The stress in this community is off the charts. They came here for refuge. It is going to get really ugly up here. We may need back up from our New England neighbors.
D. Mason
@Shalimar:
There is a whole fucking thread blaming this on racist, sexist, nazi, evil white men. Give me a fucking break. There simply aren’t enough white men to outvote everyone else. Clinton was a shit candidate and the far left has systematically alienated anyone who spoke up about the fact. Your statement is a perfect example of the thing you say didn’t happen, on a website where you can literally find people talking about being ashamed to be white. I have stated my opinions this morning without any fuck you’s or personal attacks but have been greeted with such. The far left is still in defend Clinton at all costs mode even after the failure it brought. Hillarious.
Cermet
So, hold the line – protect all the fools who voted down their own safety nets; hold the line and fix the thug bills so the worse damage isn’t done at the cost of being, again, enablers of the thugs. Vote yes to raise the debt ceiling and total debt because they give us a few pieces of meat to crow about.
BULLSHIT! If we want to save these people and programs there is only one way – let the thugs own it; don’t compromise on anything – if that means all our special programs get cut – so be it. We will only regain control of states if we force the rubes to suffer as they have voted. Lots of our people suffer but in the long run, you save people from far worse. When the Fed fails people, either their local states step up or they fall. You will be amazed at how fast these rubes will vote in local dem control
We can pay for long term, terrible pain now, or allow more limited pain for a while and avoid the long term terrible pain. That is the only choice.
Jonkheer
@MomSense: Electors are chosen by parties/campaigns based on partisan loyalty. I seriously doubt any will buck the line, especially since it would 1) end their career in the GOP, and 2) only be successful if they organized enough to do it. Organization attempt would leak, lead to countereffort by party/Trump.
JMG
@Kryptik: I felt that way last night, as posters here know. But right now, I am moving slowly, very slowly, out of deep grief to Adam’s point of view. The people directly affected by what’s coming next have no options but to suffer and resist. I, who am not, cannot look myself in the eye if I do not resist as well. Let the record show we objected to what is coming and tried our best to stop it.
We’re still half the country. It’s not like Trump won 47 states. It’s not like he was more popular than Clinton. But if we stay silent, where will anyone who might join us go?
Major Major Major Major
@SiubhanDuinne: Way better than D. Mason’s mom.
Tom Levenson
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You are an asshole and your name will be a shanda to your family.
And that’s it. Not going to notice your existence again, ever.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
TAKE IT AWAY, THOMAS FRANK
Per the Guardian:
Adam L Silverman
@hedgehog the occasional commenter: I get it. I’m not telling people not to be upset. I’m not telling people not to be angry, sad, afraid, or anything else. But freaking out does no one any good. Falling out and lashing into each other does no one any good. Putin wants us to tear ourselves apart. ISIL wants us to tear ourselves apart. The Chinese want us to tear ourselves apart. Al Qaeda wants us to tear ourselves apart. So too do some of the domestic extremist groups. You want to let any of them win? I don’t.
Shalimar
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Those of us out here in blogland were screaming about the second coming of Hitler because there is a non-zero chance he really could be the second coming of Hitler. You can’t find that anywhere in Clinton’s speeches or in the rest of the campaign, though their commercials did spend a lot of time playing horrible things he said and letting listeners draw their own conclusions. Not the same thing.
Keith G
Keeping It 1600 is on Periscope doing it’s Results Show. It is a must see. And it can be viewed later on Periscope, too.
MomSense
@Adam L Silverman:
They will produce a budget for Trump and lots of other ugly things as well. He won big enough that those that do not approve of him will feel the pressure to get in line. Name 5 GOP congress critters who might mount some kind of opposition. I probably sound like a crazy person but I am hearing voices–the voices of people near and dear to me who told me what happened to them in Germany, Russia, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Lithuania. Authoritarians move fast.
SenyorDave
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: And you have only urself to blame.
Fearmongering about the second coming of Hitler was Clintons campaign strategy.
It didn’t work.
Truly one of the stupidest effin comments I’ve ever read. There is a context here, Trump’s very real anti-semitic codes that occasionally appeared throughout the campaign (the Star of David with the pile of cash, the “European bankers” speech, his closing ad with three people, all Jewish, who were manipulating the economy). In addition, Trump’s “I don’t even know who David Duke is” lie (a whopper, even for him). Finally, his connection to Breitbart, which, despite its name, is a not just openly racist, but is also a hotbed of overt anti-semitism.
Elizabelle
Hilarious. A friend in Barcelona just forwarded me Ryanair’s marketing email today:
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Tom Levenson:
Adam L Silverman
@raven: Yep, the only Army success with this was COORDS. Part of the problem, as was the case in Vietnam and Iraq from 2004 on, is that the COIN doctrine got too stuck in the historic application in Algeria. Spreading ink spots, as Fall wrote about elsewhere, make perfect sense, if there are oases that everyone has to come into for water. So you take them, hold them, negotiate terms with those that need access to them for access, and then repeat until you’ve flipped the population layer. There are no oases in Vietnam. There are no oases in Iraq.
Jonkheer
@Cermet: Leaving aside the moral considerations of a heighten-the-contradictions strategy, Adam is right: we need an idea to animate our next 2-4 years of whatever particular strategy we use. The question then becomes: how do we present our refusal to negotiate in terms of an idea?
D. Mason
@gene108: I never suggested Trump was honest, or even decent, simply that Hillary wasn’t either. Nobody here wants to admit it because of the full throated support but the Dems put up a worse candidate than Donald Trump and now he is President elect. I understand why that’s hard to swallow but it’s what happened.
hueyplong
Taking a wild guess, I’m going to say that JH Becnel and D. Mason aren’t in sales.
Shalimar
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Thomas Frank does not read the same newspapers I do. I turned to them during the campaign and read “horrible thing Trump said yesterday… Hillary EMAILS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
Major Major Major Major
Come on, guys, two trolls are like 20% of the thread, soon to be I’m guessing 30-50%. Don’t feed. Install Troll-B-Gone if you need to, it’s what I’m using.
Kryptik
@Adam L Silverman:
I feel like the problem is that, we already have torn ourselves apart, as a country. We have officially sanctioned xenophobic scapegoating, racism, anti-intellectualism, et. al of the kind that already empowers the Putins and the ISILs. The country has officially re-othered the opposition and told us that we are the enemy, the domestic terror they want to destroy. And they have all the fucking power and will damn sure fight to ensure they keep it. I don’t see where the path forward here is because it feels like we have nothing to fight them with anymore. We’re fucking wiped and dead.
Cermet
@Shalimar: You are correct; ignore the trolls; aside: I really need anger management right now.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@SenyorDave:
And had a weekly TV show for years that had him doing that very thing that condition his voters to expect that. Meanwhile, anyone who took goverment seriously obessed over the detials of Clinton’s polices and whining about what they didn’t like while giving Trump a pass.
Jeffro
For me the important thing is to take a day to mourn, then tomorrow, sign up to rejoin the fight. I’ve seen what Republican governors can do to their states (WI, MI, KS) – no way am I letting a R take over in Virginia next year. We kept it blue yesterday – we’re gonna keep it blue in November 2017 too.
Beyond that:
We need to make sure that the media are not cowed by this bully into doing his spinning for him for the next four years.
We need to re-focus on turnout that expands our base AND energizes them.
We need to talk about pocketbook issues as well as we do inclusivity and identity issues.
We need to look for inspiring candidates at every level, every time.
And in 2018 we need to do everything we can to put House/Senate brakes on this runaway train.
Finally, I think it’s pretty clear that 2020 is do-or-die time due to the redistricting that will follow that census. It’s not hard to see that losing big in 2010 cost us, and the country, more than we thought.
hedgehog the occasional commenter
@Adam L Silverman: I know. Processing and venting today…
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@SenyorDave:
Yeaaaaaahhh, sooooo, Clinton ACTUALLY STARTED WARS AND KILLED PEOPLE.
But, ya know, Bernie was pie in the sky.
Adam L Silverman
@guachi: I understand and I can’t make the decision for you. And I really understand your concerns. I have them too. If you want to talk more offline, you know how to reach me.
gene108
@Kryptik:
American institutions are relatively strong.
Trump and Republicans will not be able to make it illegal to be a Democrat or make it impossible for Democrats to challenge them in elections.
They will do something on the economic front and on the social issues front and they’ll have a free hand in tilting the courts for the next four years, which is probably the biggest gain for them.
But there will be another election in 2018 and another one after that in 2020.
Republicans were in a worse position, after the 2008 election, and (with some help from the SCOTUS) have been able to become ascendant again.
The real problem Democrats have is there is no bumper sticker succinct way to say what they stand for right now. Democrats cannot convince people decisively they are for the working man, because many are closely tied to Wall Street.
If Democrats could connect with people, in some way, where people see Democrat and think “working man’s Party”, for example, they’d be in better shape.
I do not know how to get there from here.
D. Mason
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Holy shit bro. Shots fired.
chopper
@SenyorDave:
no forreals we should have gone with bernie. i mean, this election was ultimately a referendum on white supremacy and america decided to vote with the klan, but all those white assholes would have totes gone with the angry jewish socialist instead.
catclub
@MomSense:
I wonder what Ben Sasse and Tom Cotton are thinking today.
Mnemosyne
Texting with my BFF who still has (white, solid Dem) family in MI and her brother says that a lot of people there were worked up about Black Lives Matter and were blaming Obama and Hillary.
But it was all about
ethics in gaming journalismeconomic insecurity!Chris
@Kryptik:
This.
Villago Delenda Est
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: You are a miserable sack of barnyard waste.
gene108
@Jeffro:
Take a page from right-wingers and bombard media outlets with sternly worded letters and/or phone calls, every time something gets flagged as offending our liberal sensibilities.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Really? Which war did she start?
Adam L Silverman
@Mingobat f/k/a Karen in GA:No worries.
Daulnay
@Kryptik:
The real innovation in the Founders’ American system of government wasn’t/isn’t the three-way balance of power. It was/is the tiered distribution of power, between local, state and federal. No side can ever truly win unless it can convince nearly everyone on the other side. We hold nearly all the states on the West coast and in the Northeast. That’s not going to change if the system holds together, and it covers a huge part of the country.
This system has endured partly because it’s so piecemeal that no group can take control of the whole shebang. I don’t see that changing as long as we stay a republic. Even with Trump in office, we have hope.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Shalimar:
Well, Clinton lost didn’t she?
Obviously those emails played apart in depressing the democratic vote.
Maybe Balloon Juice could have quoted Thomas Frank instead of establishment hacks like Josh Marshall and Al Giardino WHO WERE EXTREMELY FUCKIN WRONG
Jonkheer
Cermit at 70, again: A refusal to offer any cooperation is fine if Trump governs as a bog-standard Republican (not unlikely in itself), and we can present it as a fight to preserve Democracy and Freedom, but what happens if, say, the economy slides, and Trump tries to pass his infrastructure proposal (not altogether likely, but it could happen)? Most of Congressional GOP will oppose (BIG GOVERNMENT SPENDING!!!!!!!!!), but a half-way clever Trump could then reach out to our side. What do we do when faced with 1) maintaining our “Trump is a threat to the republic and no collaboration is tolerable” line, and thereby weakening our apparent commitment to economic populism, or 2) passing the bill (with, obviously, enough Trump-style GOPers to share), making the Democracy thing seem overwrought. Not trying to say its a bad idea, but we need to have a solid conception of what our message is, and how to respond to the other side’s efforts to short-circuit it.
Repatriated
@MomSense: Yikes.
I’m also reminded that LBJ (and I suppose the ritual denunciation on Raven’s behalf goes here) had proof that Nixon was undermining the peace negotiations, but chose not to reveal it because it would have revealed that they’d wiretapped one of the intermediaries, and he didn’t want to risk delegitimizing the US governmemt by doing so.
Jonathan Holland Becnel
@Mnemosyne:
oh idk MAYBE THE IRAQ WAR
Dear child, you really just don’t have a clue do you?
Cermet
@Jonkheer: Sure, and when our side aided bush the stupid how did that turn out? Yes, that enabled us to win the Presidency and make good gains in Congress but it didn’t last very long at all; Did we retake the States? No. That is the key and will never happen as long as we protect the rubes from themselves and suffer for it. AGW will kill millions and wreak our world for GENERATIONS!!!! We either stand down for the next four years and suffer a bit, allowing the thugs to self destruct, or we support them again so they control all for 8 years and the world, along with us, get truly and deeply fucked.
catclub
@Jeffro:
That was state houses, not the Congressional elections – which we also lost badly.
My prediction is that putting Hillary on trial will be a wonderful distraction. It will encourage the yelling of ‘lock her up’, and if she is not convicted, the system is still rigged and more work needs to be done.
SenyorDave
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: So you’re dismissing both subtle and overt anti-semitism? My niece posted on Facebook that she is scared that we elected a president who used anti-semitism in his campaign. That specific issue has nothing to do with Clinton, there is no “both sides do it”. At this point I feel Trump is an anti-semite. He used it when it helped him, he obviously has no problem with it.
Mike J
Been up since 4, mom’s surgification is about to enter its third hour.
When things go wrong and will not come right,
Though you do the best you can,
When life looks black as the hour of night –
A pint of plain is your only man.
Which would be a swell idea, except 10am drinking in a hospital waiting room is a bit much even for me.
Adam L Silverman
@Kryptik: John Lewis, John Conyers, Elijah Cummings, etc. They have seen this before. They and many others beat it before. If they and their colleagues could do it, it can be done.
Mnemosyne
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
And yet I had people in the other thread telling me it was impossible that WI had reduced their Black turnout by 6 percent with their restrictive voter ID law.
MoxieM
Dear @Tom Levenson, and other Jewish (or Muslim or other ethnically or religiously targeted persons): I got your back, and I’ll bet a lot of other readers here do too. Personally, I’m a lapsed UU (yeah, go ahead and chuckle…we all need one), with both Jewish and German family. Seriously, please know that you are not alone in this, that we will speak with and for you; stand with you; (God forbid) shelter you; and all else that is required.
Major Major Major Major
Trolls and responses to trolls just cracked 25% of the thread. Leave them alone.
hueyplong
@Mnemosyne: “Really? Which war did she start?”
Remembering that the question included the word “wars” [plural], I’ll go with the War on Christmas and the War on Coal. Sometimes as non-Fox News watchers, we contribute to their sad statuses as Forgotten Wars.
GrandJury
I’m doing some chores to take my mind off of things.
Today, Stephen Colbert is my spirit animal.
Cermet
@Daulnay:They control most states and last I checked, have many important local state positions in the Northeast. No, the cancer needs chemo now. Yes, the side effects are bad but pale compared to if one lets the cancer run its course. We control very few states and that can be changed only if the rubes – including the dem supporters – suffer for their actions. We will not get another chance. Then the cancer will run its course and far, far more will suffer and far worse.
gene108
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
What media crusade? I can’t take anyone seriously, who says the media was in the tank for Hillary. Papers endorsed Hillary, because she was the most qualified candidate running.
Also, per the link, Biden voted for the Iraq war, voted for trade deals, voted to make it harder to file bankruptcy, and was head of the Senate Judiciary committee during the Clarence Thomas confirmation.
He has plenty of baggage, but liberals have forgiven him for it.
Link
Hillary took a slogging in the media over shit that didn’t impact any of her predecessors at State. Hell, at the height of the U.S. Attorney purge scandal, in the Bush & Co. years, thousands of e-mails were deleted, never to be recovered, from an RNC server used by White House staff, so they could get around FOIA requests that their government e-mails would be subject to.
Alain the site fixer
@Villago Delenda Est: pop me an email and describe the problem. Not sure what you mean
Roger Moore
@gene108:
This! The Trumpites don’t see America as a country of ideals; they see it as a country of blood and soil. That’s why they reject non-whites as not really Americans, and whites who get along with non-whites as race traitors.
chopper
@hueyplong:
i think she was also behind Marvel’s secret wars.
Bobby D
I work for the military in an engineering discipline, and have for the last decade, before that was active duty AF. I’m thinking more along the lines of quitting my job and finding work elsewhere (engineer, 25yrs exp, degree from a Top-5 school in my field, I’ve got options). As a “national security professional” I have no intent on working to further this dangerous racist demagogue’s agenda. My biggest question at the moment is whether to go non-profit advocacy side, to local govt, corporate, or switch fields altogether and work in politics.
All things considered, I’m in good shape to weather it. No debt, plenty of savings, solid education and professional experience. But I planned to work another 5 yrs for DoD and retire. Kind of confused and agitated, I’ll wait a couple months before making a big decision, but I can’t see working under this racist clown….I barely got through the Cheney junta.
Chris
@gene108:
Depends what you mean.
I’ve never been especially worried about a literal European-style fascist or communist regime taking over here. What I’ve been a lot more worried about is a do-nothing federal government that turns a blind eye to the turning of the country into a bunch of fiefdoms ruled (at the local level, because fuck big government) in contravention of all democratic norms (with a ton of corruption and cheating – the kind of thing you see enabled by vote suppression laws and gutting the VRA – making the pretense of democracy into something more like a banana republic). Think the age when machine bosses and robber barons ruled everything. Tammany Hall at best, the South under Jim Crow at worst.
It’s not Hitler or Stalin, but it’s plenty horrific as well. Instead of modernized absolutism (which is what totalitarianism is), you get modernized feudalism.
And that’s what I see the GOP, and Trump, wanting to return us to.
JMG
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Oh, please. What good is this? Why be mean to people in pain? That’s a shitty way to behave.
The rest of you, I remind you that the Reps had total control of government from 2002-2006 and it didn’t work out for them as they expected. The job of the opposition is to oppose. We should be figuring out how to oppose. I gave up last night and I’m ashamed of myself for giving into panic and despair out of shock.’
The time may yet come for panic. I’m not going to tell you there aren’t some catastrophic scenarios on the board. But for now, we assess, alter plans, and prepare for the next round. If folks need a break from politics for awhile, I totally get that. Just don’t walk away for keeps.
schrodinger's cat
@guachi: You were right all along about the results, yesterday. I was wrong. I am sorry for being short with you last night.
bemused
A CNN woman reporter talking about Obama’s presser described it as a “servile scene”.
Major Major Major Major
@schrodinger’s cat: @guachi: There are legitimate critiques/critics/’doomsayers’ here and then there are the purity trolls, concern trolls, and just plain troll trolls. Sometimes in the heat of the moment it can be hard to tell/remember the difference.
D. Mason
@SenyorDave: I think this is what the hard left isn’t getting. Nobody is dismissing Trumps flaws, the man is a complete fucktard. Against all odds the DNC put forward a candidate who was even more repulsive than him. As an organization your party failed to the highest possible degree imaginable. If I ever fail at anything that hard I hope and pray I have the wisdom to recognize it and the dignity to go do something else.
Jonkheer
@Cermet: Could very well be the way forward, then. GOPers in the ’90s passed three Welfare Reform bills, then Clinton signed the third and adopted the whole issue for himself to neutralize the issue it for the ’96 elections. Gingrich learned from this, realized that opposition party cooperating w/Prez lets Prez take credit for their popular (at the time, and not getting into merits of bill) ideas. Boehner & McConnell knew better, full-bore opposition for two years, retook house & gained in Senate. May be model to emulate, cynical as it might be.
And sorry I misspelled your name earlier; still getting used to the system (former lurker, firstime commenter)
SenyorDave
@Major Major Major Major: Sorry, when someone dismisses anti-semitism out of hand, I get pretty pissed. I like to think I react similarly with racism and sexism, but human nature being what it is I’m not sure.
But I should probably ignore at this point and not engage, because JHB seems to bea troll.
Lizzy L
I just posted this elsewhere:
It seems to me we need to think strategically as we examine where we are. Especially with regard to domestic policy, we need to think short short term, short term, and long term. Here’s some of my preliminary thinking. Note: this is all domestically-oriented.
Short short term: we are mostly fine. Barack Obama is still President of the United States. Yes, there will be ugly talk and graffiti (already happening) but until January 2017 nothing will change. Those of us who live in blue states are better off than those who live in red states.
We need to be alert for a progression toward fascism. Short term: I will be watching for the following: if a Trump administration goes after Hillary Clinton; and/or if domestic policy starts to reflect anti-immigrant, anti-black, and especially anti-Muslim, sentiment. Some examples would be: 1) banning Black Lives Matter, 2) requiring Muslims to register with the government, or to carry an identity card. Those of us who live in blue states will find it easier to push back against this than those who live in red states.
Longer term: I would expect to see the repeal of the ACA, and a push in Congress to ban abortion nationwide. I would expect to see the abandonment of the national park system and the sale to private buyers of federal lands. I would expect to see the gutting of science research facilities, especially anything having to do with energy policy and/or climate change. No money for science. I would expect to see nationwide Open Carry laws, possibly a federal Stand Your Ground law. I would expect to see some laws attacking press freedoms: I think these would be struck down by the courts almost immediately. I think we might also expect to see some kind of National Identity Card.
This is as far as I’ve gotten. I am sure you will have more to add. America, imperfect union that she is, is a place, a struggle, and a set of ideas. We need to square our shoulders and say NO. THIS IS NOT WHO WE ARE. We need to protect the vulnerable among us, and we need to support each other. For those who are already planning an exit: I don’t judge you. For those who, like me, won’t or can’t leave, I say, I love you all. I love my country. STAND.
Mnemosyne
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Oh, sweetie. Really? Seventy-seven (77) Senators from both parties voted for the same bill and it’s Hillary who is personally responsible for it?
Though I do admire how you’ve managed to completely scrub George W. Bush from history. It’s worthy of Orwell.
Enjoy the war with Iran. Know every day that you personally facilitated it, because you helped Trump win by buying into every piece of right-wing bullshit they fed you.
mkro
No way, won’t work. With full power now, Repubs will move quickly to fill those open judges that McConnell has slow-walked for years. Repubs will now own judicial, legislative and executive in DC and across majority of states. We are now all Fox Nation.
Gelfling 545
@D. Mason: No, it was race and sex based insults hurled at women and mi orities. Half our country loved it. You seem ok with it too.
Albert Z.
@JMG: Hear Hear. Let the smoke clear and a path forward will reveal itself. Sitting with grief has its purpose as well. I for one will never forget this feeling.
GrandJury
I do kind of like that “hold the line” metaphor. That is all we can do really. Won’t be successful. Dems hold almost no power in Washington anymore. SCOTUS will keep things conservative for at least the next 2 decades. Roe v Wade is going down.
About the only thing to hope for now is that the Repubs screw up so bad in the next 2 years that Dems can maybe get some power back.
The economy is improving and on autopilot so 2018 is not going to be easy no matter how badly they screw up.
sukabi
@Adam L Silverman: one Slight flaw in that… drumpf doesn’t actually read the things he signs. He gets a verbal summary and decides if he likes it before signing…
chopper
@Mnemosyne:
wait, you never saw that video of hillary clinton firing the first shot in iraq?
Jonkheer
@mkro: There may be a need for some court packing in our intermediate future. Just saying. Will require trifecta control.
SenyorDave
@D. Mason: Curious, what is your party?
The gray adder
@D. Mason: starting with the IT staff.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
Thomas Frank talks about middle class voters like neocons, and certain liberals, talk about foreign countries. They have no agency, they only respond to the decisions of their betters, who are Thomas Frank.
Major Major Major Major
@SenyorDave: Jonathan Hollandaise Bechamel is a mega-troll. It was here during the primaries blowing up threads like I assume it’s doing now. I can’t see because I installed troll-b-gone and know better than to click through and read.
D. Mason
@SenyorDave: Registred independent, voted for Obama twice.
Mnemosyne
@gene108:
I’m pretty sure Bechnel would have happily voted for Biden, the former senator from MBNA who is all in on the current drone war, because Biden
has a peni$is less of a warmonger. And because he has a peni$.gene108
@Chris:
I agree with your assessment. But I think it’ll be a notch worse than it was back then, because the modern GOP has no qualms about unleashing the Feds onto state and local Democrats, so they can be moved out of the way and neutralized as a threat to the GOP.
Roger Moore
@Adam L Silverman:
It’s not symmetric, though. The Republicans were happy to put sand in the gears because ruining government is one of their goals. It won’t work nearly as well for a party that believes in good, effiicent government. That, and I’m sure the Republicans will be doing everything they can think of to remove those obstacles so the Democrats can’t slow them down in a way the Democrats were afraid to do when they were in charge.
GrandJury
@Mnemosyne: No war with Iran. Putin will tell him that he is not allowed.
chopper
what i’m really down about right now is, this was our only real shot at any meaningful moves towards mitigating an absolute climatic disaster. and now, because angry white people are angry, this country just spite elected a guy who thinks that climate change is a lie invented by the chinese and made sure he has both houses of congress.
D. Mason
@Major Major Major Major: Hilarious and revealing that you use a program to filter out opposing viewpoints. Maybe that little bubble of ignorance is why this election feels so bad? Most of American knew it was going to be bad for months.
Gelfling 545
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: It’s not fearmongeri g when the danger is real.
gene108
@GrandJury:
Hasn’t worked at the state level. All the right-wing Republican governors, who won in 2010, except Corbett in PA, got re-elected.
Hopefully the economy will cruise along, because we have nothing to respond with, if there’s another recession.
There’s no way to lower interest rates.
And Republicans will not do any stimulus other than more tax cuts for the rich.
GrandJury
@Lizzy L: A national identity card that SPECIFICALLY does not allow you to use it to register to vote.
gene108
@Roger Moore:
Plus the media will blame Democrats for not reaching across the aisle and clinging to their bitterness over this loss, and not for Trump’s failure to reach out to Democrats.
The media is a big reason we cannot have nice things.
Villago Delenda Est
@gene108: My nym. Again and again. Start with Mrs. Greenspan, proceed to Tweety, take out the rest of the talking heads.
Jonkheer
@Roger Moore: Somewhat moot point, since we are shut out. All the more reason to emulate GOP obstruction in Obama era, esp. first two years. “Hold the line” is apropos, as we will need a way to discipline weak-kneed Dems who won’t want to go along (partly for the reason you identified, that we aren’t supposed to be that party).
The Republican Party is/has become a Russian-backed threat to American freedom and democracy. They must be stopped. What they destroy must be rebuilt, and what they create must be undone (unless popular, and we can find some way to coopt it as our idea all along).
D58826
@MomSense: Reading Ryan’s statement today. Last week he would not mention Trumps name. Today they have been BFF’s forever. Sad
Mnemosyne
@GrandJury:
Hahahahaha. Good one. Trump will have Bibi on one shoulder and Putin on the other, urging him on to Tehran. Putin will be happy for us to waste more time and money on another futile war in the Middle East while he sews up Syria. Plus all of the Republicans will be reminding Trump that a Wartime President is a shoo-in for re-election in 2020.
We’ll have war with Iran within 2 years. Thanks, “anti-war” Hillary haters! Trump couldn’t have done it without you.
gene108
@Lizzy L:
This is the right thing to do, but a hard slog for politicians, because the most down and out are not regular voters and people, who vote regularly, like the middle class, have little interaction with people like that, so they do not see the point of universal healthcare, because their job provides it for them.
Felonius Monk
@D. Mason: Since you apparently could not be bothered to vote, why don’t you shove it up your ass and quit wasting our time! Oh, yeah, while you’re at it, grow up a little bit.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@gene108: a lot of chatter in the last week, including former Sen George Mitchell, about how HRC would have to reach out and put Republicans in her cabinet. Waiting to hear some VSP to right of Paul Krugman say that. Never mind Republicans.
Jeebus
Yawn,
How many of you want to donate your job to an illegal immigrant? I am so sick of the holier than thou left’s attitude to the worker’s in this country. BTW, maybe you should visit a mosque where the women cannot worship with the men to see the patriarchal nature of Islam. But white men are the problem. I guess white women are the problem too. Trump got 53% of the white women vote. Why don’t you ‘mansplain’ to these women why they voted wrong? Clearly they are not learned enough to come to their own conclusion.
We get it. White men are by far the most pathological people on the planet.
gene108
@Villago Delenda Est:
It’s the actual news rooms that are the problem. They are the ones, who provide the fodder for the talking heads to chew over.
And they are wired for Republicans.
I don’t disagree about wiping out the media.
They are very much to blame for this result, with their obsession about Clinton’s e-mails.
Jonkheer
@gene108: Towards the media, we have to be blunt: Trump has sicced howling mobs on reporters, threatens them w/libel for truthful criticism, and adores dictators who murder journalists. Are they with Trump, or are they with American freedom and democracy? The GOP will not allow the media to be neutral towards them, its either FairnBalanced or Librul Meedia, no middle ground recognized. Trying to find it is pointless.
JPL
The Senate is going to rid us of that pesky filibuster on day one. I’m not sure how you hold the line without some type of power.
Boycott, 24/7 news. Sure Fox will still have power, but lower ratings might shift the coverage of CNN and MSNBC.
Mnemosyne
@Gelfling 545:
When Bechnel’s mommy told him not to touch the hot stove, he jammed his hand down on the burner, because she was just fearmongering.
Act II: Bechnel comes whining to us once Trump gets rolling and demands to know why we didn’t tell him Trump was a bad guy.
D. Mason
@Felonius Monk:
As long as we’re being clear about who’s acting immature :eyeroll:
sukabi
@D58826: he’s trying to not be the first in the line of fire when the drumpfen is unleashed.
Too bad for him that drumpf goes after his “allies” first.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: Everyone knows Trump is a bad guy, The ones who think Clinton was some kind of savior are the delusional lot. That’s why today hurts so bad for you. Everyone else knew it was going to be shit since before summer. No. Matter. What.
Jonkheer
Trump’s GOP want to turn America into Russia. Their policies will do nothing but give money to their super-rich paymasters while trying to prevent any chance of being fairly voted out. American democracy and freedom demand all people who care about this country’s values and future oppose them totally.
The idea/narrative is coming together. Any thoughts by any one?
GrandJury
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: Monday morning quarterbacking and grade A excrement.
Miss Bianca
@Major Major Major Major: Your mom’s words are making me cry. In a good way.
I have also just read the communication from Hillary Clinton’s campaign. That too is making me cry. Seems like I just can’t stop today, somehow.
I have given up on the notion that the White Wing is ever going to give up on White Privilege. Apparently, it’s a drug stronger than crack, and once you’re hooked on it – thinking you’re owed, all the time, at the expense of everyone else, nursing your grievances and grudges, thinking that benefits are a zero-sum game, thinking you have the right to throw everyone else under the bus because fuck you, people of color, women, religious and sexual minorities, kids – MY PAIN IS SPECIAL – apparently, that’s all you can think about or care about. Doesn’t matter whether you’re on the right or the left – the minute you express the opinion that “the white working class” is somehow uniquely burdened, and therefore demand that What White People Want is somehow more privileged than anyone else’s wants or needs – you’re a white winger. Whether you’re Thomas Frank, or Paul Ryan or Jill Stein or my brother. You’ve just announced that Whiteness Trumps All.
It seems that there is always a terrible struggle for the soul of this country – a struggle between those who think that the Constitution and the ideals of the American Revolution apply just to white people, and those who think that this country has some sort of obligation to extend the rights, privileges, and ideals of this country to all the rest of its citizens.
I’m tired. I’m sad. I’m bitter. But I know which side I’m on. So, just like Adam and Woody Guthrie said, “we fight until we win.”
Major Major Major Major
@JPL: Part of me thinks this is true, and another part of me imagines that the Republicans won’t be able to muster a majority for the rule change. There are a handful of senators left who actually believe in the institution, on the one side, and on the other there are crazy wingnuts who actually want to be able to hold a veto point for when something isn’t enough to the far right. If Trump is a rubber stamp then they might be craven/insane enough to hold out like that and hope for 60 after 2018.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Well, you keep telling yourself that when the economy tanks and Trump takes us to war with Iran.
Unlike you, I was an adult in 2000, so I’ve seen this movie before, complete with the claim that the Democrat would have been just as bad. Do I need to give you a spoiler alert about what happens next?
Villago Delenda Est
@D. Mason: I look forward to Wikileaks doxxing you and making it obvious where you can be found.
JMG
Two things the Democrats can do. 1. Start saying, every Democrat every day, “Mandate? Our candidate got the most votes.” Get that out there as a means in the public’s mind of getting a seat at the table.
2. When the proposals to gut the safety net even for middle class people roll in, stand up every day in and out of Congress and ask Trump voters, “Is this what you voted for?”
Yeah, it’s weak sauce. Real weak. But you have to start somewhere. Opposition drives Trump to extremes, the extremes voters don’t like. The idea that we didn’t exactly lose the argument, just the strange electoral college game itself is at least an idea. The idea that the Republicans are a con job might resonate, too. It’s not as if they’re popular.
In the election, the fact both candidates were unpopular worked against Clinton. Now, there’s one of the unpopular two left.
It’s all I got. It’s something.
Adam L Silverman
@Alain the site fixer: Did you see the email reply I cced you on? Please follow up with the sender when you get a chance.
D. Mason
@Miss Bianca: So if you’re a white male adult you don’t matter but everyone else has special pain? Just trying to understand you. I love how modern ideals of diversity don’t include white men.
SFAW
@D. Mason:
Oooh, it’s “Make-Up-A-‘Fact’-Wednesday! I had completely forgotten.
But please try to keep your memes straight: Trump is the savior for the RWNJs, Bernie is the savior for everyone else.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@JMG:
This, and please keep in mind the Republicans had creepy cult like devotion to Bush and it all fell appart on them. This time arround the GOP spent the whole election attacking each other and when has anyone talked to a wingnut who was doing that crazy eyes glazed over “on message with the talking points” thing they did.
Villago Delenda Est
@SFAW: They always project their own need for a savior on everyone else. It’s always projection with these people. Always.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Yes, when someone is being held hostage, our main concern should be to think about the feelings of the hostage-taker. Why isn’t anyone thinking about his pain?
Go have Mommy change your diaper. This one is getting stinky.
SFAW
@D. Mason:
Not big on the reading-comprehension thing, are you?
amygdala
@Miss Bianca: I hear you. Hillary’s speech was patriotism of a kind Trump and many of his supporters could never even imagine.
SFAW
@Villago Delenda Est:
See, and I thought you had to be a Rethug to do the projection thing. Damn, that means there’s even more of them?
Villago Delenda Est
@Jonkheer: They are in deep denial of how Donald intends to treat them. They had better be subservient or else. I wouldn’t put it past him to create a special cadre of “Press Police” to do the honors on those who fail to toe the Drumpf line.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: And do I need to give you a spoiler alert for what happened after that? Bush/Gore wasn’t the first time the Dems put up a shit candidate and lost to a shit Repub and Trump/Clinton won’t be the last because zealots like you won’t hold their feet to the fire. Instead you want to blame racist white men who are a minority of the vote if you assume everyone else is voting Dem, which is ignorant. White devils don’t number enough to elect a man like Trump unless you take some other factors into account but you won’t because you care more about whining than winning.
Timurid
@Jonathan Holland Becnel:
Go fuck yourself.
Chris
@GrandJury:
Trump isn’t actually a Putin puppet.
Villago Delenda Est
@gene108: David Fahrenthold needs to watch his back. He may be the first “Putinized” journalist. The NYT newsroom shouldn’t be careless, either. Despite their yeoman work in casting clouds on Hillary, they’ve dared to report on Donald’s indiscretions of all kinds.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
It’s about time you stopped hatin’ on white folk. Um, white MEN, that is. It’s the only pain that fully counts. (As opposed to counting three-fifths as much, of course.)
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: Who’s taking hostages? Are we taking hostages now? Your grief seems to have made you delusional. Either everyones feelings matter in a diverse society or they don’t, but double standards don’t equal diversity when they’re against white men any more than they do when they’re for white men.
Jonkheer
@Villago Delenda Est: I wish I could say you were wrong, but…
Still, I think we need to make, and keep making the point. Our officials and talking heads need to bring it up every segment. Might do something, and it adds to the narrative: Republicans want to turn America into Russia. Could put a wedge between GOP’s Russia hawks and Trump; anything that further trips up their cohesiveness is worthwhile.
Mnemosyne
@Enhanced Voting Techinques:
That in itself can be dangerous, unfortunately. When everyone is falling over themselves to prove that they’re the ones most loyal to the
FuehrerDonald, hunker down.D. Mason
@Villago Delenda Est: That would be pretty uneventful. I’m nobody and anyone who wasted their time trying to “expose” me (hahah) would learn before the end of their journey that they’re on a dead end street.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Sixty (60) percent of white men voted for Trump yesterday.
You didn’t do very well in math class, did you?
SFAW
@D. Mason:
You know, you seem to be able to write words used by persons older than nine years old, but you don’t seem to be able to comprehend them when they’re formed into sentences — longer than, oh, I don’t know, five words — when written by others. Perhaps you can get an adult to explain # 176 to you. Or maybe, you understand it, but, Trump-like, you decided to lie about it.
Whatevs, as the kids (used to) say.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Well, my uterus will now be owned and operated by the US government thanks to creepy Mike Pence and his fetus-hugging laws. Good thing I’m almost done using it.
But you’ve already made it very clear that you don’t care about anyone other than yourself and your fellow racist white men. As long as your life is comfortable, why should you bother your beautiful mind about anyone else?
Miss Bianca
@D. Mason: Did I say “white men”? I said WHITENESS, bro. Not “white MEN”, per se. But go into that defensive crouch, by all means. Makes it easier to identify you as a white winger.
Shalimar
@Mnemosyne: Leave him alone. It doesn’t matter how bad things get under Trump, D. Mason will cling to his “Hillary Clinton would be worse”. Whether he is trolling or just stupid, no point trying to change his mind.
Mnemosyne
@Miss Bianca:
Fuckin’ white fragility is going to be the death of us all. These guys just don’t understand why they can’t cut to the front of every line, and the rest of us have to pay.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Mnemosyne: And how does Trump enforce party loyalty? That Tucker Carlson thing I listened to pointed out Trump has no conections inside the GOP, it’s clear Fox News doesn’t know what to think of him. On top of it the House GOP has spent the last eight years screaming “Socializms” and voting no on everything and being rewarded for it.
Shalimar
@Enhanced Voting Techinques: Trump has brownshirts to enforce party loyalty. Republican elected officials are going to be terrified of their voters for awhile and the voters are going to support Trump since he is now their champion. Hold a rally in that congressperson’s district and he will fall in line.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: and that 60% of white men would count for what percent of the total voting populus? That would be less than 50 I guarantee. So someone who wasn’t a white man voted for trump and Plenty of people chose not to vote for the utterly uninspiring Hillary. You can blame white men but you won’t be getting at the real problem which is the Democratic party. They gave us Hillary, they gave us Trump.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: But you’ll continue scratching your head about why “racist white men” didn’t get out the vote for your ordained liberal utopian queen. Must be because they hate women. haha stupid people are fun.
dogwood
Are there any threads today that aren’t simply feeding trolls over and over?
Miss Bianca
@Mnemosyne: Why should they understand anything different? It’s worked so well for them for 400 years.
Davis X. Machina
A significant portion of the electorate any winning liberal coalition needs says “No it doesn’t”.
Even if it’s not actually true.
Atomistic individualism operates just fine at the nation-state level too.
gogol's wife
@dogwood:
Good question.
SFAW
@D. Mason:
Maybe we can get liberal lion Russ Feingold to run in 2020. He can springboard off his stunning win in Wisconsin, kicking Ron Johnson to the curb as he did.
retr2327
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: SenyorDave gave you the thoughtful and reasonable answer, but Tom Levenson gave you the one you deserve.
Maybe we should each take a turn with it?
” You are an asshole and your name will be a shanda to your family.
And that’s it. Not going to notice your existence again, ever.”
D. Mason
@SFAW: I hope in all sincerity that this election leads to some introspection for the Democratic party. For example, people are quick to blame low minority turnout on voter supression, which is worth considering, but they refuse to consider that minorities may have chosen to reject Clinton because of how she smeared Obama the first time the DNC tried to force her down our throats. Obama negated the “my turn” politics through a groundswell of support and they redoubled their efforts. A sad state of affairs.
Greg
@Jonkheer: We frame it as the hard work of self-government requires that we stand against those who would tear down what has been built. The majority did not actually select Donald as president. We will acknowledge his election, but we will allow him the same legitimacy he and his ilk allowed Barak Obama, who was selected twice by the majority.
Yutsano
@SiubhanDuinne: @Adam L Silverman: Heh. Reading comprehension at 9am is not my friend.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
Uh, I’m not scratching my head at all. You’re the one complaining about how your hurt fee-fees must be attended to before we can even start to address Black men being shot by cops or women not being able to access necessary healthcare. Because your iddle fee-fees are more important than another person’s life.
Also, you need to use spell-check, punkin. Mommy can show you how to turn it on.
StringOnAStick
@Jeffro: So true my friend, so true. 2020 is where we simply have to hold the line, and that starts by holding the line in 2018. I was not able to do much this year other than contribute because of dealing with illness and eventually death of two members of our family, but I can do more now.
A good friend and I were going to start a road trip to FL today, but between a sick pet and neither of us getting any sleep last night, it is looking like tomorrow instead. She just got her citizenship a few months ago (from eastern Europe) and was thrilled to go vote yesterday; she now feels as sick as I do. She chose to become a citizen because she’s seen how right wing her birth country has become and she and her husband agreed they couldn’t ever go back there. Surprise.
Our state (CO) went for Hillary, saved the Senate seat, and didn’t lose any more house seats, but didn’t gain any either. I think the key here was us having gone to mail-in ballots in 2015 There were still poll locations open and they were very busy, but it is hard to disenfranchise a lot of voters with mail-in ballots, which is why republicans fight tooth and nail against them. We only got it because of a brief period of democratic majorities in the state house and senate, combined with a centrist democratic governor.
We need to push the idea of mail-in ballots, maybe the best angle is the convenience and fairness angle. That sure solves the issue of people not bothering to stand in long lines, and I know from experience that they do check every signature to be sure the envelop is signed by the proper voter.
Enhanced Voting Techinques
@Shalimar:
Really, and who is this???? A bunch of extra burb hickies who were to emberassed to admit they were going to vote for him? Do you remember how loonly and cult like the conservatives were with Bush II? Do you see them doing that again?
God lord, stop making Trump 10 feet tall.
SFAW
@D. Mason:
Oh, so now it’s not because Hillary wasn’t liberal enough, it’s because she “smeared” Obama in 2008? Spoken like a true Trumpista. Please enlighten us about Hillary smearing Obama, however. I’m sure it’s fertile ground. After that, you can tell us about the ad campaign comparing W to Hitler.
Not sure who you used to be, but your “I’ll read what’s written any way I want, screw the actual meaning” is reminiscent of trolls like RtR (although your style is unlike his).
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@Mnemosyne: I absolutely agree about the war with Iran. It will get very very ugly. Like, nuclear ugly.
For those interested, I have just set up the FB group, the one I mentioned in other threads. I’ll keep working on it, and when it’s ready, whoever is interested in joining can contact me. (Does this thing do private messages? IDK.)
Also have a very frank conversation with my husband this morning. He has probably never seen me so upset and scared. We will be prepared to leave if we have to (being a Latino family), and will be prepared to go to Canada if necessary (for our lives, or for medical procedures that save my life, which will soon be outlawed).
Spoke with a former soldier of mine who identifies as bisexual. She said she cried and cried in the shower. And today is her birthday. I let her know she has my support and if she needs ANYTHING, to let me know. THAT, is what we need to be doing today.
More to come.
Adam L Silverman
@Yutsano: No worries.
D. Mason
@Mnemosyne: So you’re just making shit up and attacking my sloppy typing, gotcha. dismissed.
@SFAW: I never said anything about her not being liberal enough, shes just a garbage candidate who’s been rejected time and time again. This shouldn’t be a surprise to anyone, being a pattern and all.
brighid
bull shit. it’s revolution time, not respect time. our traditions are broken and a demagogue is the president-elect. but sure white dudes please tell the rest of us it will be okay. join the resistance or fuck off.
John Weiss
@Kryptik: I know how you feel. But it ain’t over ’till it’s over. I’m giving myself a few days, then I’ll start thinking about what to do about it.
Mnemosyne
@D. Mason:
How am I making shit up? You’re right here, in these threads, demanding that we take your feelings into account before anyone else’s.
And it’s not your typing, it’s your spelling. You need to get some extra tutoring about homonyms.
jenn
Absofuckinglutely, we do whatever we can to hold the line. They want a left, thinking, version of the Tea Party? Let’s give them one. It’s going to be a lot of work, we’re going to have to stay on top of incoming legislation, and then we’re going to have to make a lot of noise – whatever noise might be required.
There have been a lot of things I’ve been thinking about this morning. One was Obama’s oft-repeated line that the arc of history bends towards justice. I’ve always had a problem with that line (much as I like the sentiment) because it sounds as though that bend just happens naturally. It doesn’t. It takes all of us working together, shoulder to the wheel, to make that arc bend. My shoulder is to the wheel, and I am ready to get back to work.
Another thing that I have been thinking of is a Joss Whedon scene from the TV show Angel. It may be my favorite scene of any TV show, ever. And it’s the very last one of the series. The fight to make the world a better place NEVER ENDS. We may lose battles, we may win battles, but the fight never ends. And while winning battles is undeniably important, losing battles is also inevitable – so what is most important is not the winning, but the fighting. Not giving up, but ever-working towards a better future.
So while I understand the desire to give in to hopelessness, please don’t. I have shed an awful lot of tears today, hugged friends, coworkers, and random strangers – and I plan to do more of both the crying and the hugging. But I am also determined, because I hold this truth to be self-evident: all men and women are created equal, regardless of race or creed or sexual orientation or anything else that those who hate wish to throw in to divide us. And whatever I can do to fulfill that truth, I will do.
Hugs to you all.
Miss Bianca
@StringOnAStick: Oh, hey…yeah, I was really hoping Gail Schwartz would pull it away from Tipton. But then, I thought HRC would get elected, too.
I guess I underestimated the power of Whiteness. And the absolute determination of the media, the right-wing, and the batshit left to smear Clinton with the “untrustworthy” brush. So now we’re going to go back to 2000. That election was tragedy, and you would have thought it would have taught us all a lesson on false equivalency. But no…apparently, we’re such idiots in this country that we have to stick our hand in the fire over and over again.
ETA: I dare not hope history decides to replay itself as farce, rather than the even greater tragedy we apparently so richly deserve.
SFAW
@D. Mason:
Right. And Al Gore was a shit candidate, because of earth-tones, or some such bullshit. (Or because he claimed he invented the Internet. Or because he sighed during the first debate.) And yet you keep talking about how the DNC ignored the left, etc. Make up your fucking mind.
She had one-tenth the baggage of Trump, but the MSM and various fools (or Trumpistas) made that seem as if SHE was the one who had the lock on dishonesty. No matter that Trump said approximately-zero intentionally true things, except when he was spewing his hate. (Although, technically, his hate wasn’t true, it was just what he believed.)
Look, it’s obvious that you and Becnel just fucking hate Hillary because of “reasons.” And purity. And arglebargle. So what else is new.
Adam L Silverman
@brighid: What, exactly, do you think holding the line means?
SFAW
@Miss Bianca:
As Bullwinkle used to say: “This time for sure!”
Miss Bianca
@Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire): FB page? Would this have anything to do with a “holding the line” sort of action?
I confess that Adam’s words have helped to coax me off the ledge. I’m now too mad to kill myself. With any hope, I’m not mad enough to kill anyone else. But I’m feeling a strong desire to relocate where I might see a more diverse population. Just to remind myself, that my now-detested tribe will become a minority in this country some day – may it be in my lifetime. I’m done with Whiteness.
SFAW
@Mnemosyne:
You callin’ him a homo? Or he has a homo nym? Or he’s a homophobe?
You liberals, so intolerant.
brighid
@Adam L Silverman:
Your right and I am lurker here lashing out for no reason because the immediate ramifications of this on my family are catastrophic like a lot of people here. you are a calm measured voice of reason so I am sorry. this isn’t on you.
Adam L Silverman
@brighid: That wasn’t the point of my reply. I was unclear if you were unclear about what I meant. Everyone needs to and has to process this election in their own way. And, to be honest, that was going to be the case regardless of who won because of just how long, ugly, and bitter the election was. To a certain extent Putin’s maskirovka has worked. He wanted the US fractured and ungovernable and he got the US fractured and potentially ungovernable. Holding the line includes looking out for each other. Pushing back when our fellow citizens who feel empowered to be revanchists try to actually act out on those feelings. Having each others’ backs. Not being afraid to tell someone that “that type of language is not appropriate” or “that type of behavior is not appropriate”. Its about living as much of the ideal as possible.
Adria McDowell (formerly LurkerExtraordinaire)
@Miss Bianca: if “holding the line” means providing comfort and, potentially, direct care to those in danger, then, yep. I guess so. I know the LGBTQ community is really really really feeling it. I can’t even imagine how Muslims feel. I weep for the Khan family, for them to lose their son for a completely ungrateful country.
@brighid: we here are with you. You have every right to be upset.
brighid
I am angry and sleep deprived and completely misunderstood what you originally meant. Which is why I apologized. We need to hold the line and there are many ways to do that and many roles we can all take. But what can we do? what groups can we join? what protests can we hold? do we try state by state taking school boards and state houses like the republicans have done? what’s the most effective action here? I wish I knew. @Adam L Silverman:
Jacel
In terms of “holding the line”, the leaders of the California state legislature issued an excellent articulation of that goal.
JPL
@Jacel: Thank you for sharing that.
Mnemosyne
@Jacel:
Thank you — I just posted a link to that on Facebook. I think all of us on the West Coast are in shock right now.
D. Mason
@SFAW: Not that they ignored the left, that they ignored the obvious. The candidate had been rejected over and over again.
Miss Bianca
@D. Mason: OK, I’m not going to say “fuck you”, because I am trying to maintain more of a sense of fucking decorum from now on, but I will just say “the candidate has NOT been ‘rejected over and over again.’ She won two terms as a Senator from New York, if I have to remind you, and that hardly constitutes rejection.
So, I’m not going to say “fuck you”. But I am going to say, please take your sorry, white-butt-hurt, misogynistic claptrap somewhere else. Since it’s not helpful, and false into the bargain, it serves no purpose here.
elm
It’s all too much for this immigrant. I know when I’m not wanted and will go back where I came from. Good luck to those that remain.
Jonkheer
@Greg: Apologies for stepping away a while, had things to take care of.
That depends on what, precisely, Trump builds; giant upper-class tax cuts, torture program, pro-autocracy alliance w/Russia? That cannot stay. His wall? Maybe stop maintaining it. Exactly what he plans to do with TPP will have to be seen, seeing as how his entire proposal has been to make it “better,” with no description of what tradeoffs
Captain C
@Mnemosyne:
As one of the apparent minority, while I won’t apologize for the evil creeps, I do share your total disgust with them.
Seriously, what’s wrong with (certain) people?!?
rikyrah
@Elizabelle:
The wisdom of the Elders.
celticdragonchick
It looks like the two GOP school board candidates who want me me fired from my teaching job here in Guilford County NC (for being a trans woman) got elected last night.
I wonder if I can defend my job.
I sure as hell won’t have help from the federal government on this one.
Captain C
@Jonkheer:
Looks like Philip K. Dick’s Radio Free Albemuth is turning out to be nonfiction, like Idiocracy.
Captain C
@Chris: There seems to be pretty good evidence that Putin has blackmail material on Trump from one of the latter’s visits to Moscow. I wouldn’t be surprised if it involved pre-teen girls.
Jonkheer
@Captain C: Perhaps, but I’d rather put my hope in something more concrete than aliens bailing us out.
Though that gives me an idea-
ATTENTION, MIGRANT FLEET: We will give you an Antarctic ice cap’s worth of fresh water in exchange for an intervention. Seriously, we are melting it anyway so we can drown ourselves for being greedy and shortsighted anyway.
J R in WV
@Yutsano:
You are confusing the term “electoral majority” and the term “popular majority” – they are not the same. Trump got a pretty solid electoral majority – that is if the electors in each state that voted a majority for Trump cast their electoral votes for Trump, he will be the next president.
This is different from the popular majority, which, while interesting, is not connected to how we select our presidents. The votes of individual states are what counts on presidential election evenings. Not the accumulating popular majority.
This is why the boards of the TV networks show the states and which states vote for which party, Red or Blue.
SFAW
@D. Mason:
Although Miss Bianca beat me to the punch, I’d ask: in what frame of reference does getting beaten by Obama in the 2008 Primary constitute “over and over again”? And considering she got more votes than Obama, and non-Supers were 51-49 Obama-Clinton, your example is yet another manifestation of your fact-free screeches about Hillary/DNC/the Sky.
And, by the way, no one rational considered Obama to be a dyed-in-the-wool liberal.
Oh, right, you’re not about liberal vs non-liberal. At the moment.
What you’re apparently saying is: the Dems needed to run someone with more charisma than Hillary. Because that’s all your argument comes down to, since every other “point” you’ve made has been shown to be bullshit.
Adam L Silverman
@brighid: That’s one way and place to start.
Omnes Omnibus
@JMG: Everyone has a breaking point and handles it differently. I apologize to you and the other decent Juicers with whom I lost my temper last night as things started to go bad.
Paul in KY
@Major Major Major Major: Your mom kicks ass!
Paul in KY
@raven: Nothing was going to save the kleptocracy that was South Vietnam. I’m sorry for all you brave men & women who wasted years of their life over there,and for those who never came back.
Fuck LBJ.
Paul in KY
@Mnemosyne: That’s that D. Mason loser right there.
Paul in KY
@Jonathan Holland Becnel: That’s GWB’s war, scumbag. Trump was also all for it.
Hoodie
@Jonkheer: We may see more than just holding the line. For example, lawsuits to keep Trump tied up in depos for the next four years, a regular Arkansas Project treatment. There have to be plenty of targets, e.g., mistresses, mob ties, etc. It’s a target-rich environment, which I think the press avoided because they really never thought he would be president. Ambitious blue state AGs (e.g., Schneiderman) could go after him on his fraudulent business practices. Blue state legislators could force investigations of his company’s practices. He can’t get away from those simply by being president. Maybe that’s what Hillary was alluding to by “rule of law” in her speech today. Trump may have been trying to intimidate Hillary with the threat of investigation, but that may end up biting him in the ass. This isn’t Russia yet. The Clintons have money and a lot of rich friends, and they are not good enemies to have.
Paul in KY
@SenyorDave: The Cheeto Wacker party
Paul in KY
@celticdragonchick: Hang in there! Be proud of who you are.
Jonkheer
@Hoodie: I like the way you think. With all of the accusations of sexual assault, if one happens in such a blue state (say, Trump Tower, NY), then by my read of NY penal law, the groping allegations would constitute Forcible Touching, a Class A misdemenor. As such, it is punishable by up to a year in prison, statute of limitations being two years. That last part is the problem, however, since according to this timeline, the last claim was in 2013. However, the SoL could be extended to up to five years by being “continuously outside this state” (i.e. at Mar-a-Lago), I don’t know exactly how long that would be. Will check on the fraud thing.
Jonkheer
@Hoodie: Scheme to Defraud in the First Degree:
There are other clauses allowing for less than ten people if you obtain $1000+ from the scheme, or if you defraud a “vulnerable elderly person”. I know he’s been accused of the first two, and possibly the third, and you only need one. Class E Felony, punishable by 1-4 years, although the judge can, for a first time offender, do less than a year. Best part: 5 year SoL.