Or fearing Putin and polonium:
Paul Manafort’s efforts to make sure his wife could continue living in the couple’s Palm Beach Gardens home should he go to prison fizzled after special counsel Robert Mueller III filed court papers last week asking a judge to throw out the deal because Manafort lied.
The special counsel in the Russia investigation in November accused Manafort, President Donald Trump’s former campaign chairman, of violating his plea agreement by repeatedly lying to federal investigators, according to court records filed by the special counsel’s office last week. One of Manafort’s lawyers is also suspected of briefing Trump’s lawyers on his client’s discussions with federal investigators, according to the New York Times.
***With that promise, Manafort went a step further to protect his wife’s interest and took his name off the deed on Oct. 30 — leaving her the sole owner of the homesteaded residence.
But that move and the homestead exemption now may not be enough to keep prosecutors from seizing the home, experts say. Although Florida has some of the strongest safeguards for homeowners, property — including those with homesteads — can be seized if the government can prove it was purchased with the proceeds of a crime.
“If the government can show the property was purchased from illegal activity, then the government can go against the property,” said attorney Frank Rubino, a Miami, criminal defense lawyer who specializes in federal white-collar cases. “The homestead (exemption) is not protection.”
These people are sick.
debit
What do you expect? Manafort forced her to participate in gang bangs so he could get off. He doesn’t give a crap about her and never did.
balconesfault
It is possible that the threat includes not just violence against himself … but against his wife and family as well.
Manafort was owing big bucks to some really bad people. And knowing Trump’s venality, their location under witness protection would end up being on Twitter.
The Moar You Know
He’s gonna die. His whole fucking family, too. The Russians simply can’t afford to let him keep walking around, and his last service to Vladmir Putin will be that of a warning to Trump of what’s gonna happen to him if he comes clean.
scav
I have this sudden urge to mutter “Merry Christmas! Tough on Crime!” Civil forfeiture suddenly isn’t just for those other people – How Unfair! the shriek no doubt will be tweeted!
Platonailedit
Happy holidays, punks. Enjoy your slammer time.
schrodingers_cat
Also can we please dispense with the fiction, that before the current Russian proxy in the WH, Rs were noble. They were not. Case in point the same science denialism that we see about climate change today was alive and well during Reagan and Bush I administrations, so beloved by our prestigious Republican media (I mean PBS, NPR and NYT). Also the same indifference to actual human suffering. They have been rotten and driven by profits/money over everything else for a fucking long time.
Vhh
This is what i hold against the Never Trumpers like Max Boot (who used to extol the virtues of Small Wars).
Stuart Frasier
@debit:
I thought that was Roger Stone?
debit
@Stuart Frasier: Someone hacked Manafort’s daughter’s phone and got transcripts of texts between her and her sister. You can google it. I read them and wish I hadn’t .
Betty Cracker
I read somewhere a while back that one of Manafort’s daughters changed her name to avoid the shame of being associated with her loathsome father. That’s my wish for Trump’s descendants — that his grandchildren, great-grandchildren, etc., change their names because “Trump” has become synonymous with “lying orange traitor.”
Patricia Kayden
@debit: She’s still with him so no sympathy. Plus, isn’t she an attorney? She appears to be an intelligent woman. Perhaps she was fine with the gang bangs. Who knows?
NotMax
Rs consider anything which (a) assigns them guilt and especially (b) relieves them of any wealth to be cruel and unusual punishment.
Gin & Tonic
@Betty Cracker: This is true.
debit
@Patricia Kayden: She wasn’t fine with it and told her daughters that he made it a condition of their marriage continuing. And that’s unfair of you. Women who have been subjected to sustained emotional abuse often feel they have no option but to stay with their abuser. She’s a victim.
Stuart Frasier
@debit:
Yeesh. I recall it was Jack Ryan’s desire for the same sort of kink that lead to him dropping put of the Senate race against Obama in 2004.
geg6
@Stuart Frasier:
Manafort is not who you are thinking of. Manafort did terrible things to his wife, according to their daughters. I think you are thinking of Roger Stone.
I believe the story on Stone is that he and his wife are swingers, so I believe she is a willing participant. But that may well be another one of his lies. Who the hell knows?
As for Mrs. Manafort, I have trouble having sympathy. She has stuck with him through it all and even now, when it would be easy to dump his traitorous ass. I’m sorry she married such a disgusting creature, but she has chosen to stay with him. She will have to suffer for his sins.
Sister Golden Bear
Fear of a polonium planet (to misquote Public Enemy).
CliosFanboy
that’s crazy talk…
it’s an Instagram post if I ever saw one…
debit
@Stuart Frasier: I’m a firm believer in YKINMKATO (your kink is not my kink and that’s okay) as long as all parties are adult and consensual.
CliosFanboy
@Stuart Frasier: there were multiple reasons. I believe that was #7 of 9.
trollhattan
@CliosFanboy:
All the cool kids know it’s Snapchat or go home.
OzarkHillbilly
@geg6: “As for Mrs. Manafort, I have trouble having sympathy.” Don’t know enough of the particulars in this case but I have known a number of women who stayed in truly horrific relationships because they felt they had no choice.
Barbara
@Patricia Kayden: @geg6: My understanding is that Mrs. Manafort sustained a serious brain injury, with her ability to function on her own apparently compromised. It would probably be better to give her the benefit of the doubt as to why she stayed with her husband.
Humdog
I believe Mrs. Manafort suffered a serious brain injury and is not at full mental capacity. Save the venom for the perpetrators, please.
ETA, Barbara got there first
TenguPhule
@balconesfault:
Manafort, like Trump, will run over as many people as needed to avoid personally paying any price. Family are not excluded.
trollhattan
@OzarkHillbilly:
Stockholm syndrome and all that.
The breadth and depth of the administration’s and general Republican corruption is too vast to comprehend, which I suppose is to their advantage. It’s like a caper script development gone feral.
“Nobody will believe that.”
Gin & Tonic
@CliosFanboy: Golf clap.
TenguPhule
@schrodingers_cat:
How long have you been here? This is preaching to the choir. The only arguments are whether the original sin was not nailing Nixon for treason or Reagan.
TenguPhule
@Betty Cracker:
Mandatory sterilization and they spend the rest of their lives in a monastery. Let Trump’s genetic legacy go extinct.
Stuart Frasier
@debit:
I’m in 100% agreement. I think lack of consent was the issue with Jack Ryan. It’s weird to think that may have led, in a roundabout way, to Obama’s election.
TenguPhule
@OzarkHillbilly:
In this particular case, if Mrs. Manafort wants to go the full “for better or worse” then we might as well consider her actions voluntary suicide.
trollhattan
@TenguPhule:
Maybe they can change it back to the original Drumpf.
TenguPhule
@CliosFanboy: It was. What kind of sick excuse for a human being does a guy have to be to consider cheating on 7 of 9?
NotMax
@TenguPhule
Boy, you must really, really hate monks.
:)
Maybe consider turning it down to 11?
trollhattan
@Stuart Frasier:
Yup. Seven of Nine gave us President Obama, which gives us two reasons to love her.
And wow, Illinois politics are weird.
TenguPhule
@trollhattan:
We are all Matilda now.
Aleta
[The story by Julie Brown at Miami Herald: https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/article222597265.html ]
OzarkHillbilly
@trollhattan: That can play a part, but for many it is a feeling that they are trapped, that there is no way out and if there is a way out it involves giving up everything, up to and including their children. I knew one such woman who did give up her children. Then when she felt her situation was secure enough that she could take her children in, her husband killed her.
TenguPhule
@NotMax:
Look, its not an immediate execution. Give me a little credit, I’m trying to compromise here.
Ohio Mom
At the moment I am mildly irritated at a couple of people in my life but hearing about Manafort and his family puts it all in perspective.
I only know annoying people who commit the occasional selfish act, not anyone who is out and out evil.
schrodingers_cat
@TenguPhule: It was an expression of disgust with the media over their Bush I hagiographies and not directed at BJers. I have been commenting here for close to 10 years since Obama got elected the first time. I lurked for about a year before that.
MattF
Just bear in mind that Manafort was not merely pals with Roger Stone– Manafort & Stone were partners a DC consulting business. It’s so sleazy and amoral that it is hard to process.
Manafort is sleaze and amorality personified, and his sleaziness is his stock in trade. That’s where we are.
patrick II
@Stuart Frasier:
Ms. Ryan refused. That’s (at least in part) what led to their divorce.
Brachiator
@The Moar You Know:
They’ll be fine. Putin is not so stupid as to okay such a high profile hit.
Manafort is fortunate that the Saudi’s are not involved.
CliosFanboy
@Gin & Tonic: (polite golf bow)
NotMax
@schrodingers_cat
A victim (and survivor) of the FYWP War on Apostrophes.
;)
MattF
And, btw, Jeffrey Dahmer’s parents changed their surname, but Jeffrey’s brother didn’t– so changing your name is a pretty big deal.
jl
Indirectly semi on topic:
Man, 69, loses legal battle against temporal reality in effort to become 49
https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2018/12/03/man-loses-legal-battle-against-temporal-reality-effort-become/?utm_term=.5a3fd09ef322
Jack Benny, far ahead of his era, went for 39, and got it, for the rest f his life.
So, for Manafort and Trump, their efforts to un-F themselves are just as plausible as this guy’s. They are not Jack Benny. But then Jack Benny, as far as we know, did do something with his life besides commit felonies. So, there is a difference.
MattF
@jl: Still, beating the ‘one year per year’ rule is tough.
Gin & Tonic
@Barbara: Kathleen Manafort attended every day of her husband’s trial, sometimes in the company of her son-in-law, sometimes alone. She gave no indication of diminished capacity. Yes, she suffered an injury 20 years ago, but she’s taken what seems like a normal role as a domestic partner since then. Obviously I’m judging from a distance, so there’s that, but I’m not inclined to give her the benefit of the doubt at this point.
boatboy_srq
@CliosFanboy: WELL PLAYED.
Mandalay
– Getting caught slapping a woman around to show who is the boss had nothing to do with it.
– The fact that he directly acted against the wishes of his client Stormy Daniels has nothing to do with it.
– The fact that his law firm was evicted after failing to pay over $200k in rent has nothing to do with it.
He’s not running because at heart he’s a family man.
NotMax
@jl – @MattF
Cue da music: Time Is.
;)
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
I’m sorry are we talking about the same Putin who tried to pull off a high profile hit with a NERVE AGENT in England just 6 months ago?
Barbara
@Gin & Tonic: I don’t know her so I can’t say for sure what her capacity is, nor can you. I have a close friend who worked for years with people who sustained head injuries. They look normal but they are significantly diminished. Once again, my misogyny tentacles go up — how many people put forth the notion that Hillary Clinton was a fake feminist because she didn’t get a divorce? Oh sure, Kathleen Manafort benefited from her husband’s crimes, there is no doubt, but to rain venom on her for what he did is a bridge too far in my opinion. Why not castigate the son in law for attending the trial? Did he not benefit as well? And by the way, I have limited sympathy for her because there are other people who deserve sympathy way more — but not giving sympathy isn’t the same as singling out for criticism.
TenguPhule
@Mandalay:
To be fair, none of this stopped Trump, either.
Gin & Tonic
@Mandalay: I think I’m going to follow Michael’s lead and drop out of the race to be the next Pope.
I’d rather spend more time with my family. The fact that I’m completely unqualified and have zero chance of winning has nothing at all to do with it.
Platonailedit
@Brachiator: Circumspection and prudence are not putin’s strong suits.
M31
Avenatti is now the frontrunner for the GOP nomination
SC54HI
@Aleta:
Thanks for posting on this gobsmacking update. Would REALLY like to know what are the implications, if any, for the suit in Federal court that seeks overturn Epstein’s prior conviction and sentencing agreement.
Gin & Tonic
@Barbara: I did not single her out for criticism; I just said I’m not giving her the benefit of the doubt with regard to staying with him for 40 years. And the son-in-law is facing pretty substantial criminal exposure in NY based on some really dodgy real-estate business, so his time will come.
I admit I cannot be objective about Manafort, and never even try. I knew who and what he was years ago.
debit
@Barbara:
Well said.
I don’t want to keep harping on it, but she was obviously not in a healthy marriage and he was a world class manipulator. I didn’t have a brain injury but stayed with an emotionally abusive spouse for years because I truly believed several things: That there was no escape. That I would lose my kids (he made far more money than I did and was connected to powerful people). That I was worthless and deserved it. That maybe if I tried harder things would get better. That everything was my fault. Obviously I am no longer with him, and am okay, but it wasn’t easy getting here and I couldn’t do it on my own.
I don’t know Mrs Manafort’s particulars, but I am inclined to give her some sympathy and cut her some slack.
rikyrah
@The Moar You Know:
Whew….damn….
PJ
@Barbara: If you know that your spouse has engaged in unethical and probably criminal activity for decades, and you have enjoyed the lucre that behavior earned, do you bear no responsibility for supporting that person, or, at the very least, for sharing in the spoils?
I understand that relationships and families are complicated. But while people like Manafort’s wife, and Melania Trump, have perhaps not committed the same crimes as their husbands, or any crime at all, should they receive no criticism for continuing to support their spouses morally when the evidence of extensive criminal behavior becomes mountainous?
NotMax
@Gin & Tonic
God save our gracious Mrs. Ethel Shroake of 393A High Street, Leytonstone
Long live our noble Mrs. Ethel Shroake of 393A High Street, Leytonstone
From the absurdist post-apocalyptic movie “The Bed Sitting Room.”
:)
Princess
@Mandalay: That’s one less thing to worry about.
Ain’t gonna be president now.
Bruce K
I’m reminded of the story of the last surviving relatives of Adolf Hitler, who changed their names and entered a pact under which none of them would have children, deliberately putting an end to the bloodline.
(There’s also the story of Hitler’s cousin who flew bombers for the US Army Air Force during World War II, but that’s not quite relevant here.)
NotMax
@Mandalay
Aw, and here had the term Avenutties all polished up and waiting in the wings…
;)
TenguPhule
GIna Haspel is briefing the Senate about the Saudi Murder.
Tomorrow should be interesting.
Aleta
@TenguPhule: “Let Trump’s genetic legacy go extinct.”
See: Texas Land Commissioner George P. Bush to CNN “There’s a time for politics and there’s a time for governing, but there’s also a time for reflection, and this is a time for reflection for our country to think about the values that make our country great”
and dream on.
TenguPhule
/sigh
A day ending in WHY GODS WHY.
TenguPhule
@Aleta:
Don’t even get me started as to what I want as mandatory for the Bush clan.
CliosFanboy
@TenguPhule: very qualified, yes. but desirable? not so much.
OzarkHillbilly
@PJ:
That could be the wrong dynamic. I stayed in a marriage to a spouse who engaged in several illegal acts (and found out after I finally left that what I knew was only the tip of the iceberg) for the plain and simple reason that leaving meant abandoning my sons to her. That was not an acceptable option.
The world is not black and white, but sometimes black and white decisions are the only choices we have. I long ago gave up judging people solely by the situations they find themselves in. More often than not, it’s just not that simple.
CliosFanboy
@Bruce K: did you watch Hill Street Blues? comedian Vic Hitler (aka, Vic the Narcoleptic Comic).
TenguPhule
Northwest China is covered in ‘yellow snow,’ but don’t blame the dogs
NotMax
@Aleta
Pet peeve:
There is no George P. Bush. He is George P. G. Bush, his second (and Hispanic) middle name suddenly vanishing (and scrubbed from the majority of the web) practically on the same day he announced he was running for Land Commissioner.
Mandalay
@TenguPhule:
A fair point. Avenatti even has Trumpian levels of spite and bitterness:
Aventatti wasn’t content to hop into bed with the Democratic Party and fuck it. As he was leaving he decided he’d take a dump in their bed as well, just for giggles.
I hope someone prominent has the balls to tell Avenatti that he is not welcome in the Democratic Party until he improves his personal conduct.
TenguPhule
I see the Saudis have given Trump the idea for yet another new business model.
TenguPhule
@CliosFanboy: I would quibble over most qualified.
TenguPhule
@Mandalay:
Or one of the leading women gives him a pointed kick to the groin.
TenguPhule
Dow drops 500 points over realization that Trump lied about a China deal.
Wheeeee!
FelonyGovt
@TenguPhule: I think Uncle Joe is confusing the affection people had for his bromance with Pres. Obama, with anyone actually wanting him to be President. He would be exactly the wrong nominee.
debit
@FelonyGovt: Why is he the wrong nominee? I’d vote for him.
Barbara
@PJ: In general, unless said spouse has done something affirmative to endorse or condone the behavior that you know of, I would mostly keep them out of the crosshairs of my anger. Melania Trump went on tv to endorse her husband’s birther sham — that’s makes her fair game. She is also spending taxpayer money on various jaunts and projects and otherwise representing the nation, all of which make her subject to public scrutiny.
CliosFanboy
@TenguPhule: I’d put him in the top half dozen given his experience as Veep. Among those who are not ex_Presidents and under the age of 80 I’d say Hillary, Biden, Kerry, Jerry Brown, and ??? None of them make my 12 for running for the Democratic nomination though…
Love Biden as a meme and as Obama’s Veep, but he is way too close to the credit card industry for me, and I damn well remember how he screwed over Anita Hill…
But in 2020 I am voting for the Democrat no matter what. The Party could reanimate the corpse of Grover Cleveland and I’d vote for him over Trump… Hell, dig up Franklin Pierce and I’d vote for him over trump!
FelonyGovt
@debit: Oh, I would certainly vote for him in the general election, but I think we need someone younger and more “charismatic”, since the American public seems to be all about personality.
NotMax
@Bruce K
True story Just after WW2, Mom’s sister was working as an editor at one of the major women’s magazines. One day a phone call was patched through to her. On the other end of the line was someone trying to sell a story.
Fairly quickly the conversation went: “Mm. hm. Mm hm. Tell me, just who are you?”
Reply: “I’m Adolf Hitler’s sister.”
As the family lore goes, aunt then said “And I’m the Queen of Sheba” and hung up. When the story appeared much later on in a competing magazine, boy, was her face red.
CliosFanboy
@Barbara: I agree. if all they do is stare at him with big googoo eyes like Nancy did Reagan then they’re not a target.
debit
@CliosFanboy: I’d vote for the empty chair Eastwood yelled at at the GOP convention.
J R in WV
@Patricia Kayden:
Actually, she suffered a traumatic brain injury in a fall from a horse, and is apparently now unable to make decisions at all. Which means that all those sex acts were technically rape, as she is unable to give meaningful consent to any sex acts.
She needs a protective order to keep the vile piece of crap her husband turned into away from her.
Or he could just spend the rest of his life in the slam, which works best for me!
PJ
@Barbara: Manafort’s wife signed off on at least of a few of his real estate/mortgage scams. It’s possible that she had no idea, or didn’t want to have any idea, of what they were about, but it’s that kind of willful blindness that enables people to do the bad things they do.
Brachiator
@TenguPhule:
What have the British done about it?
CliosFanboy
@debit: tanned, rested, and ready! Empty Chair 2020! Support him so he can support you!
TenguPhule
@Brachiator:
Accused Russia at the UN, which Russia then laughed off. Too much Russian money in the UK.
Mandalay
@PJ:
I have no dog in the fight, but how can you possibly claim to know that Mrs. Manafort was being willfully blind? Manafort was a con man, so it’s possible that he lied to his wife, and misled her.
Here’s something that the wife of Victor Madoff – who was in a somewhat similar situation to Mrs. Manafort – said:
Of course one can argue that Mrs. Madoff was a self serving liar, or being willfully blind. But there is surely a possibility that she was simply telling the truth.
trollhattan
@J R in WV:
If that’s the case any contract she signed following the accident is invalid. Unless Because Florida.
debit
@CliosFanboy: Empty Chair 2020: Hold on to your butts!
rikyrah
@NotMax:
You were the one who brought this to our attention. I still think it’s ridiculous that he did it. So absolutely pathetic.
geg6
@Barbara:
I did not know that. If so, he’s an even bigger blob of scum than I thought.
geg6
@OzarkHillbilly:
In this case, her children are long grown into adulthood. She doesn’t have that excuse any more. If it’s a brain injury, I’m inclined to cut slack, but there seems to be some dispute about this. Whatever. I really don’t care about these people or what happens to them. If she knew anything at all about what he did for a living and never once did anything to try to stop him, she’s a pretty awful person, too.
J R in WV
@geg6:
Yes, the whole family appears to be scum. They may not all be forcing a family member into sexual slavery, just Paul… he seems to be really a strong supporter of slavery in general, especially in the former USSR, and sexual slavery in his family. Who could have guessed?
PST
@Mandalay:
I think all of the prominent Democrats have been pretending he doesn’t exist, which is better than talking about him or to him. I generally like MSNBC, but Avenatti’s 15 minutes are a sin the network must atone for.
debit
@PST: I generally like Lawrence O’Donnell, but, yeah. He has a lot to answer for.
PST
@debit: Morning Joe was as bad or worse. And we don’t have to be nice to him.