I never thought I’d be retweeting Ah-nold, but this is very good, and what we need now. He talks about his family in Nazi Germany Austria (thanks, Amir Khalid). It’s, among other things, a warning to those who think Wednesday’s assault on the Capitol was a good thing.
And, since we’re doing explainers this morning, here’s Immanentize’s take on pardons.
People using past pardons (Nixon, draft dodgers) are making some big categorical errors in thinking this through.
So, here is how I think about it, as a criminal law matter. First, pardons are for criminal law questions only — that is, you can’t pardon someone out of a civil lawsuit.
Second, the basic unerring premise of criminal law is that every crime must have an act. One cannot punish thoughts alone, only acts (although conspiracy as a crime gets close). So — all crimes must be based on acts. But not all acts are criminal of course.
Third — the prior examples of “blanket” pardons were not all that blanket. Nixon’s pardon was never tested — but it was a pardon of a specific individual for all ACTS while in office (only then by specific dates). The Carter pardon was for a narrow set of crimes (selective service act crimes) for many but it also excluded a good number of people (AWOL offenses for example). So, a wide but finite number of people who avoided the draft, but only for a very narrow category of statutory crimes. So, not so much an ACTS pardon, certainly not a specific person pardon, but rather a bar to Federal prosecutions of certain specific federal crimes before a certain date. Carter’s memorandum was not really considered a pardon of individuals by many, rather a direction to Federal prosecutors not to charge crimes (which is always discretionary anyhoo). When Reagan became president, there was talk of him issuing a new order allowing the prosecutions again, but four years had passed and it seemed like a stupid fight to have. So, again, untested.
So, for a valid pardon to be made here, It seems that the president would have to pardon either specific people, or specific acts related to crimes. I think that he could pardon Q Shaman guy for all crimes committed that day. Or even committed during Trump’s term. A pardon of a Nixon type. But that could/would be tested. Trump could pardon everyone in the world for violating the trespass of public property crimes under a specific statute. A Carter-type “pardon.” But that might only be a prosecutorial discretion act which could end with his term in office.
What I do not think is legal as a pardon is what most people are calling “blanket” pardons. For any act or crime for any person that day. Is he really going to pardon the cop killer(s?). Or, suppose someone did plant a bomb in the Capital that day and it goes off after the pardon issues? The act was planting the bomb, can that conceivably be pardoned? I think not.
If he tries a blanket pardon of this type which has no precedent tested or not, there will be prosecutions and then we will know the outlines of the pardon power.
Further affiant sayeth not. And if there are typos, deal. It’s Sunday morning.
Fair Economist
A significant issue with Trump issuing pardons is that it greatly increases the chance of removal by impeachment, and possibly by 25th as well.
MattF
@Fair Economist: Also, in particular, a self-pardon invites prosecution because that’s the only way the courts would get involved— the judicial system doesn’t produce ‘advisory’ opinions, there has to be an actual dispute.
rikyrah
It was a very good video.
Baud
Thanks for posting Arnold. That was riviting.
dmsilev
I watched the Schwarzenegger video earlier. It’s very good; definitely worth the eight minutes of your time.
rikyrah
TruthOfAngels
To be honest, I won’t be surprised if we don’t hear another word from Trump from now until the Inauguration.
Baud
Terminator vs. Litigator.
Baud
@rikyrah:
They are welcome to join us in removing Trump.
wvng
I can’t imagine Trump even considering pardoning that mob. That would be an admission of personal responsibility for their actions.
@rikyrah: They call for unity and lowering the temperature as they continue to spread lies about “election irregularities” that fan the flames.
raven
@Baud: So it’s ok with you to discuss this now?
kmax
Arnold surprised me with this video. Not with his position but with the speech itself. I did not expect such eloquence from him. Well said.
Thank-you for sharing this.
Baud
@raven: Huh?
rikyrah
Totally OT
There is a picture circulating of Kamala on the cover of VOGUE.
Folks are slamming it.
I didn’t like it, and hoped that it was fake.
Two of my favorite fashion bloggers, Tom and Lorenzo had something to say about it.
rikyrah
@rikyrah:
rikyrah
@rikyrah:
rikyrah
@rikyrah:
SiubhanDuinne
Hat tip to MattF, who posted the Schwartzenegger video two threads down.
rikyrah
Matt McIrvin
@wvng: I think it’s clear by now that Trump doesn’t regard a pardon as an admission of anything–it’s a magic nullify-the-law card, and if it makes the liberals cry it’s best of all. The two categories of people he pardons are his personal allies, and monsters who did something gratuitously cruel and horrifying that pisses off liberals. These are both!
Citizen_X
@rikyrah: I don’t mind it so much. Kamala look good in her chucks.
That background, though–yeesh! Ugh-lee.
kindness
One thing about the Trump Admin. They are going to feed a lot of lawyers families for a long long time.
rikyrah
@Citizen_X:
The background is what made me think it was fake.
I wouldn’t think that VOGUE would know what the colors of her sorority were.
rikyrah
From Black Capitol police:
raven
@Baud: When I brought it up this morning you seemed pretty dismissive. Maybe “That’s been known” wasn’t but it sounded like it to me.
rikyrah
@rikyrah:
The Dark Avenger
It was worth it to hear a German word pronounced correctly by Herr Arnold.
Ohio Mom
Rikyrah:
I saw that photo of Harris elsewhere this morning and was totally bewildered by it. It made no visual sense, especially the AKA tribute curtains.
It’s an interesting set of comments from Tom and Lorenzo.
On another note, I found Arnold’s story about the PTSD- fueled domestic abuse of his childhood very moving. I doubt that the right-wing nutters who need to hear Arnold’s words will bother to do so though. Or even be able to comprehend it if they do.
Cheryl Rofer
Another police officer who was injured on Wednesday has died.
prostratedragon
@Citizen_X: Pink and green are the colors of AKA, her sorority. (I hadn’t noticed until someone replying in the thread pointed it out, then was embarrassed because that’s also my mother’s sorority.)
Baud
@raven:
I just meant we had talked about it before here so it wasn’t new information. You can talk about it if you want.
rikyrah
They Weren’t Rioters, They Were Fascists. It Wasn’t an Insurrection, It Was a Coup. by @umairh
https://eand.co/they-werent-rioters-they-were-fascists-it-wasn-t-an-insurrection-it-was-a-coup-fa9b28c5b704?source=social.tw
Ken
Can we be that lucky?
Baud
@Cheryl Rofer:
Oh wow. I didn’t know there was anyone else in serious condition.
Citizen_X
Props to Arnold for that video. It’s moving and personal, and calls out the lies about the election right from the start. And has Conan’s sword!
Also worth reading, and sharing: this long (~200 tweets!) thread from Seth Abramson, analyzing Trump’s speech line-by-line. I could never do that; I listen to Trump speak, and it’s all just nonsense and cruelty.
But Abramson is not looking at it as an argument. There’s no logic to critique. He’s looking at it as incitement, and pointing out the words and thoughts–and commands–that Trump is planting in his followers’ skulls. The result is terrifying, and gave us what we had on Wednesday.
oldgold
@Baud: May have been suicide.
raven
@oldgold: That’s on that twitter thread.
catclub
I was reminded by the letter writer to to Arnold who was upset that America was not living up to its ideals.
An agnostic says:
“I don’t believe in God. But the God I don’t believe in is a just God, a merciful God. Not your angry God.”
I am not sure which the US is. The one living up to its ideals, or one that only claimed to do that.
Alison Rose
Okay, that video makes me a smidgen less embarrassed that we elected him as our governor.
Martin
@Baud: 60 officers were injured. When I saw the video yesterday of the officer crushed in the doorway, I figured there had to be others that were seriously injured.
raven
Drunk Peggy is for impeachment! Bipartisan!
rikyrah
Baud
@oldgold:
Yeah, just noticed the “off duty.”
ThresherK
I have the vague recollection of Schwarzenegger, while campaigning to become CA’s gov, decrying the childhood memory of the threat Soviet tanks posed to his native land. At the time it was pointed out that Austria had its own far-right movement before and after Anschluss.
He was never a stock-issue Republican, somewhat sui generis as a person and politician, and he has become better at this.
Baud
@raven:
Noonan?
prostratedragon
@Cheryl Rofer: How awful. It seems possible that it was suicide. Gives one reason to consider the home truths in Arnold’s statement again, though of course he could have had other things going on.
catclub
That was impressive. The background strings were a little much.
jeffreyw
@rikyrah: It runs neck and neck with dems quoting what they say.
Citizen_X
@Citizen_X: Okay, I guess I don’t know how to paste a Twitter link here. Sorry.
@prostratedragon: I assume her sorority sisters would know how to use their colors in a more attractive way that that.
rikyrah
raven
@Baud: That’s the name of that tune.
MattF
@Citizen_X: I do it by– 1) getting to a Twitter page where the desired thread is at the head of the page, 2) copying the URL out of the browser window header.
Lyrebird
@rikyrah: Glad you shared that.
I have certainly seen better photos of our Veep Elect… if they want “fashion” though why didn’t they go with her in the rainbow jacket she got on the campaign trail?
Then again what I know about fashion would fit in between two pages of a closed book.
rikyrah
Ceci n est pas mon nym
Not that I know what I’m talking about, and even less so in 1977. But I remember the word “amnesty” for draft dodgers rather than “pardon”. I didn’t think it was an erasure of the crime so much as a promise not to prosecute.
Maybe there’s no legal distinction.
Ohio Mom
Raven:
My neighborhood is full of “reasonable” Republicans who think Noonan is a poetic sage. For some of them, their heads are exploding with cognitive dissonance, others of them are weeping in recognition. To whom I say, Good morning, how does the coffee smell?
prostratedragon
@Citizen_X: Let’s just say that I never thought one pledged because of the colors. Unless one is an actual rose or carnation or something it’s a tough one to pull off.
rikyrah
Truth
Citizen_X
@Citizen_X: Trying again. HERE is Abramson’s thread:
January 9, 2021
rikyrah
Baud
Ass covering, but maybe using language to set up the 25th Amendment within the next 24 hours.
Formerly disgruntled in Oregon
@Alison Rose:
Arnold’s not so bad.
Y’all still fucked up with Nixon and Reagan, tho (but that was before our time).
Lyrebird
@rikyrah: the same journalist whose video is in the Buzzfeed article followed up, someone linked it last night. That officer going up the stairs may have saved many many lives by drawing the mob away from the Senate chamber.
germy
Christie helped trump with debate prep. Christie advised trump to be aggressive and keep talking over Biden. They hoped it would trigger stuttering in Biden, which would make him appear “confused”.
Christie is like “I prepared this triple decker sandwich; I never dreamed anyone would eat it.”
Omnes Omnibus
@rikyrah: I thought she looked good. Both attractive and no-nonsense. But then I am not a dedicated follower of fashion. I was, however, a big supporter of Harris for President until she dripped out. I may, therefore, not be a reliable judge.
Barbara
@rikyrah: Cue the hue and cry against lynching.
Omnes Omnibus
Why not? it’s not like her sorority connection hasn’t been in the news.
trollhattan
@Cheryl Rofer:
Damn. So very sorry to hear this.
Interested to see how these LEO fatalities–in the line of duty fending off a fascist mob–will be twisted into “unfortunate but inevitable consequences of Democrat Party socialist policy.”
Other than the infinite thickness of the True Believers, I hope it’s getting through to the Trump-friendly cop cohort that they are very expendable in the larger pursuit of overthrowing American democracy.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Vogue still exists?
germy
Omnes Omnibus
@trollhattan: According to rikyrah’s link, yes.
The Moar You Know
I got certified as a welder back in high school. I know something about swords that Arnold doesn’t.
If you keep retempering a piece of metal, it gets stronger to a point. Then it rapidly gets weak.
And it shatters.
Just Chuck
@TruthOfAngels:
Whereas I would be utterly amazed. He cannot keep his mouth shut.
Omnes Omnibus
@germy: Your point? It isn’t like we don’t know and haven’t fucking known what a disaster he was going to be.
germy
@trollhattan:
From what I understand, VP Harris declined the Vogue offer.
Someone created a fake cover for fun. Maybe to piss off the folks who complain about Melania’s lack of cover opportunities.
Barbara
@trollhattan:Ratchet down the sarcasm. They often do more serious writing than their non-fashion counterparts.
frosty
@Ceci n est pas mon nym: My recollection was that Carter gave a pardon. It was McGovern who ran on “Acid, amnesty, and abortion” according to the Republican Ratfuckers (but I repeat myself).
Omnes Omnibus
@The Moar You Know: One doesn’t weld swords.
germy
@Omnes Omnibus:
My point?
They’re not talking to us, they’re addressing members of the press.
It’s an interesting thread.
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@germy: Christie was as I recall the first really establishment figure to endorse trump– I don’t count Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III *. I think their “friendship” predates 2015? This is a kick in the nuts. I find myself wondering how much of Christie’s turn is personal rage over his various humiliations (the Kushners related to half dozen of them; ostentatiously ordering shellfish because he knows Christie’s allergic) and his near-death experience (which is probably his fault more than trump’s), and how much is 2024/28 (Christie is young for a politician).
*I think it was was Valued Commenter Barbara who said that one part of trump’s success was he brought racism with a Northern accent and secular affect to the exurbs outside of the Deep South. I’d never thought of it that way, but I think it’s a valuable insight.
Baud
@Jim, Foolish Literalist:
Agree with Barbara.
Dorothy A. Winsor
@Baud: I think he committed suicide
debbie
@TruthOfAngels:
Sadly, no. He’s traveling to the Alamo on Tuesday to tout the Wall, his biggest achievement (according to his spokesperson)
(Per NPR this morning)
Ken
600 comments from now, we’ll be debating whether Narsil and Andúril were the same sword, and someone will have dragged in the Ship of Theseus.
germy
@Barbara:
Teen Vogue stepped up when the NYTimes was still running “He’ll be fine” editorials.
debbie
@rikyrah:
I disagree. I’ve seen better covers, but her being V.P. is reason enough to rate a cover.
Cheryl Rofer
I’m now seeing that the officer’s death appears to have been a suicide. Will share more as I see it.
Cheryl Rofer
Also, I love the photo of Kamala. She’s gonna be a Vice President like we’ve never seen before!
Omnes Omnibus
@Ken: Whether they were or weren’t, neither was welded.
trollhattan
@Omnes Omnibus:
Back when dinosaurs roamed and I had visions of pursuing commercial photography, I’d thumb through it because the photography was always top-notch. Far better were French and Italian Vogue, as they were more edgy and tried harder.
Of course in the decades since, glossy expensive print mags have joined those dinosaurs in the landfill since the economic model is no longer viable. There’s something tangible about thumbing through the pages not remotely replicated by swiping a tablet display. Pity. I knew it was a kind of passage when “Sports Illustrated” let their photography staff go. It’s literally in the name.
Alison Rose
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: Well, as I often explain to other liberals who laugh at the idea of Texas one day turning blue (though maybe they’ll laugh less now after Georgia this election), California was a red state even within my lifetime. We only turned reliably blue around Clinton’s first election. Oh, how things change!
trollhattan
@Barbara:
Not sarcasm. I literally did not know.
oldgold
Yikes!
Tweet
Yashar Ali ?
·
11m
Another US Capitol Police Officer has died after the insurrection.
Officer Howard Liebengood has died by suicide.
Paul Donnelly
@Ynotgreencards
·
9m
The son of Howard Leibengood, Sr., former Senate Sergeant at Arms and one time lobbying partner of Paul Manafort.
debbie
@rikyrah:
Instead, she shut down her Twitter thread. ?
WaterGirl
@Citizen_X: Here’s the tweet that got mangled.
Baud
@oldgold: Hmmm.
Steeplejack (phone)
@Citizen_X:
You have to be in text mode to embed a tweet. Click the “text” button at the upper right corner of the comment box.
Kattails
@Citizen_X: (This seems to work better if I have the twitter thread I want open in another window, not a tab.) Highlight the top bar, go to Edit>copy. On Balloon Juice you must be in the Visual tab of the comments. Highlight a small area of text to describe the link. Then hit the link icon, go to Edit>paste, then your “return” key. Then just click on the page to return to typing.
Ken
I’m sure they’re working on a way for the tablet to spray you with perfume, to simulate hitting one of those advertising inserts.
The Moar You Know
@Omnes Omnibus: You are correct. It was a four year program. I learned a lot more about metal than just welding. Casting, forging, machining, finishing…I could go on. I’d have made more money had I done that right out of high school, but I’d be retired on disability at this point.
debbie
@germy:
Damn straight. Trump got 9.71% of the vote in Manhattan. Deducting the votes of all those Wall Street types and Upper East Side old money, he was basically shunned.
trollhattan
From the home of Devin Nunes, a radio talk show host has opinions.
He sounds nice. First, an apology to appease the bosses, then this followup to prove he really, really means it.
Another victim in the cancel culture wars.
WaterGirl
@Citizen_X: You almost had it. You have to click the tab that says TEXT before you paste in the twitter code. After it’s pasted in, you can go back to visual mode.
Omnes Omnibus
@Alison Rose: I remember that every time the California contingent talks about how great things are there. I remember how California gave us Nixon and Reagan, anti-tax activists and anti-immigrant laws.
Not picking a fight with the California fans, but just pointing out that they should remember where they came from.
trollhattan
So that’s what icloud is for!
Kattails
@The Moar You Know: I watched a video on the making of a samurai sword once. It was tempered many many times. At the end, the sword maker tested it by slicing through a tightly bound bundle of straw as though it were butter.
Narrator: “In the old days, they didn’t use straw”.
Just Chuck
@Omnes Omnibus: Every time you fold the steel over and pound it, you’re welding the layers together. Swordsmiths even call it welding (usually in the context of “pattern welding”, aka Damascus steel). Different kind of weld, obviously…
sdhays
@Omnes Omnibus: Likewise, I think Harris herself looks great. But the backdrop is truly hideous and is, at best, completely out of place with the actual photo of Kamala, and I think that’s where the criticism really lies. It’s so bad it looks like a bad Photoshop job, hence the confusion on whether it’s real or not.
Just Chuck
@debbie:
Fitting. The Alamo’s walls didn’t stop anyone either.
Emma from FL
@Omnes Omnibus: Me too. It was standard, generic Vogue for “female we want readers to understand we’re serious about”. She looks good. Has anyone seen the article pics? They are usually more telling.
(looked) Inside photos excellent. Life history approach. Nice.
Steeplejack (phone)
@rikyrah:
Be careful what you wish for. I’m sure McConnell l would love to ram through another justice in a week.
WaterGirl
@Jim, Foolish Literalist: My personal opinion is that Christie is pissed as hell that he got COVID and almost died because he apparently believed the shit that Trump was selling.
Another Scott
@wvng: +1
Donnie only does things after considering “what’s in it for me”. He won’t try to pardon the mob. He’ll pardon his family and probably try to pardon himself (though that is less certain).
Cheers,
Scott.
sdhays
@oldgold: Wait…the former Senate Sergeant at Arms was a lobbying partner with Paul Manafort? WTF?
I wonder if Elizabeth Warren’s proposed crackdown the revolving door with lobbyists and industry in general covers this.
Just Chuck
@sdhays: Doubtful. The Sergeant at Arms is hardly a legislator.
Jinchi
I’ve found it very distubing that Trump has already been allowed to issue pardons of people who committed crimes on his behalf (Flynn, Manafort, Stone, etc.). Even worse is that he has been repeatedly described as offering pardons for crimes that haven’t even been committed yet. Now people seem to be simply accepting the idea that he can pardon people for transparently illegal acts that he himself incited, even if it was a direct assault on his own government. There were plenty of people in this mob who would have happily murdered the vice president and members of Congress. If this unlimited view of presidential power were to stand, then not only is the president above the law, he could tell his agents to kill everyone at the capitol building and then tweet a pardon for himself and everyone in the crowd.
This seems transparently absurd, but Trump clearly believes it himself. I’m utterly baffled that we have more Republicans worried about Trump’s twitter access than Republicans calling for his immediate expulsion.
Baud
@sdhays:
I read it as his dad worked with Manafort.
Omnes Omnibus
???
Steeplejack (phone)
@debbie:
I believe Trump is going to Alamo, TX, a town on the border.
sdhays
@Another Scott: While I really can’t image Mike Dense or the collection of fools that pretends to be Dump’s Cabinet invoking and sustaining the 25th Amendment, it would definitely be entertaining (as well as an unexpected relief) for Dump to turn on the TV and discover that he no longer has any Presidential powers.
If, by some miracle of backbone, Dense does come through, I really hope that Dump finds out through cable news, just like Comey found out he’d been fired.
debbie
@Steeplejack (phone):
I gather you’re telling me those are two separate locations? Even so, the newsreader specifically said “the Alamo.”
Another Scott
@Baud: “At least 50 officers were injured in the attack, including several who have been hospitalized with serious injuries, Sund said on Thursday.”
(from a CNBC report)
Cheers,
Scott.
Amir Khalid
@The Moar You Know:
Your quibble about tempering metal is accurate, but is also kind of beside the point: Arnold’s not teaching a class on sword-making. It would also have been beside the point for me to correct Immanentize that Arnold and his family were Austrians and not Germans, which is why I didn’t*.
*Oops.
kmax
@catclub: A momentous occasion… been lurking here for about 14 yrs… can count my comments on my fingers.. you have the honor of being the first to reply to one of my comments. :-)
debbie
@sdhays:
Seriously? They were hunting him down to execute him. I think that would be plenty of motivation, even for Pence.
sdhays
@Baud: I read it as his dad was the former Senate Sergeant of Arms AND lobbying partner of Paul Manafort.
sdhays
@debbie: You have a much higher opinion of Mike Dense than I have. I hope you’re right.
Steeplejack (phone)
@debbie:
The Alamo of legend and lore is in downtown San Antonio. The town is near McAllen, TX.
I can’t supply a link right now, because somebody’s screwy URL has fucked the comment box.
Kelly
and guys at the Alamo were defending slavery
Steeplejack (phone)
@Steeplejack (phone):
Trump’s Texas visit.
Ken
While he’s in Texas; then when he storms to Air Force One to get back to Washington, the crew tells him “I’m sorry, but this plane is reserved for the President.”
Matt McIrvin
@Ken: There is a tradition of giving the outgoing President one last flight on the plane (not technically “Air Force One” for this purpose) to the location of his choosing. But that’s assuming some kind of normal transition.
Now Nixon actually bugged out of there in advance of Ford being sworn in, so the plane ceased being Air Force One in flight and had to change its call sign.
artem1s
@Ohio Mom:
I think it was uncharacteristically vulnerable for him to talk about that. I was concerned he was going in the direction of #NotAllGOPers are traitors. but it seems he was honestly trying to talk to those on the cusp and telling them that no matter how attractive the power or excitement of the moment is, you will regret it if you continue to walk down this path. And the knowledge of your failure to stand up to tyranny will haunt you and your families to the end of your days.
He also spoke very forcefully about “The Big Lie” and enthusiastically endorsed President Biden and VP Kamala Harris and supported them in leading the country. No attempt at weasel wording like some of the LP crowd.
I wasn’t all that thrilled about the Conan sword bullshit. And maybe someday he can fully atone for his complicity in advancing the GOP disease in CA and the rest of the country – but he did OK here.
Another Scott
@Amir Khalid: There’s also the difference between strength and brittleness. Things that are extraordinarily strong can be brittle (e.g. glass is (surprisingly) strong in certain ways (e.g. transparent armor)).
The general point Arnold makes stands – materials are made stronger by working them.
Cheers,
Scott.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@debbie: The Alamo ain’t on the border.
sdhays
@Ken: I actually wonder how that would work. Dump would still be President, as I understand it, but he would be considered incapacitated.
Immanentize
@Amir Khalid: That was Cheryl’s comment about Germans, not mine. Get your shit talking straight!?
Another Scott
@?BillinGlendaleCA: I wonder if this Alamo thing is another Four Seasons example…
“Let’s stop at the Alamo (Drafthouse)…”
Cheers,
Scott.
Matt McIrvin
@sdhays: Yes–in the 25th Amendment situation, the President is still the President but his powers are suspended. Presumably Pence as Acting President would have to OK anything that happened.
Immanentize
@Steeplejack (phone): Yeah Citizen X broke the margins at comment 35.
Sometimes WATERGIRL! will fix it if she is in the house. She’s our only hope!
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Alison Rose: California was more of a purple state, we usually had a split Senate delegation and the governorship passed between parties(I think the longest stretch in recent times the R’s held the Governor’s office was 16 years with Deukmejian and Wilson) after Chairman Jerry’s first two terms.
Immanentize
And thanks, Cheryl, for putting up my explainer. Someone said that the Carter pardon was more amnesty (do not prosecute) than pardon (relieved of prosecution or consequences). I agree and tried to make that point — but in fact, it was both — pardon for those prosecuted and punished and amnesty for those not yet prosecuted. The amnesty part was to me the direction to his Federal prosecutors which the next president could perhaps have overturned because it was not in fact a pardon.
Martin
@Formerly disgruntled in Oregon: We’re making up for that with Kamala.
geg6
@Barbara:
Word. Glamour and Marie Claire have done stellar reporting and commentary.
Kathleen
@rikyrah: I saw that article on Twitter and was going to post it but I’m glad you did. It debunks any idea that these were just disorganized rando rabble. The Black officer that turned the mob away from the Senate doors was extremely brave. I’ve not heard confirmation of this but my gut tells me at that point he was betting the mob would rather chase him than look for the offices. He was not wrong. Heroic act.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Omnes Omnibus: Remember the GOP’s embrace of the anti-immigrant laws is what’s made them a bit player in California politics. Nixon was a Senator from California for 2 years before Ike chose him to be VP, he lost to Chairman Jerry’s dad in the 1962 race for Governor.
geg6
@Omnes Omnibus:
No, but welders generally have a deep knowledge and experience with metallurgy. My ex was a welding instructor before he became an administrator at the county board-tech high school. He taught his students metallurgy.
Another Scott
@Immanentize: I don’t understand why long URLs are an issue with some here. My browsers (even on my phone) wrap it. What phone/browser is causing the issue?
Cheers,
Scott.
Cheryl Rofer
@Immanentize: Corrected in the OP
mesmer a la carte
I live in Venice and see Arnorld all the time around town. For a man of his celebrity, his footprint is surprisingly small. At Gold’s gym – a trainer with one security person in the distance. On the bike path – one or two people who look like friends. It fits that he’s evolved to the point of releasing this video and I’ve been able to thank him multiple times for standing up to the great orange bully.
Matt McIrvin
@rikyrah: Later in the thread they posted what seems to be the photo chosen for the final version of the cover, which is much better.
debbie
Finally got around to watching Arnold. Every GOP member of Congress should be forced to watch it Clockwork Orange-style.
Cheryl Rofer
I do not possess WaterGirl’s HTML-fu, but I think I may have fixed the problem at comment #35.
WaterGirl
@sdhays: Perhaps knowing that Trump had set the stage and lit the match for the people who were hunting him down and trying to kill him…. perhaps knowing that stiffens the spine a bit.
?BillinGlendaleCA
@Matt McIrvin:
I’ve walked though that plane, it’s the AF1 at the Reagan Library in Simi Valley. A photo was feature in an OTR a few years ago. The Marine/Army One that Nixon took from the White House to Andrews is at the Nixon Library.
Alison Rose
@Omnes Omnibus: As a lifelong Californian, I completely agree.
M31
the rally will be in the Alamo Rent-a-Car return lot B of the Dallas-Fort Worth airport
Alison Rose
@?BillinGlendaleCA: Right, I was speaking more in terms of presidential.
Immanentize
@Cheryl Rofer: You have!! Thank you!
Jim, Foolish Literalist
@M31:
and trump will look around and say, “Is this where the guys from Bonanza beat the Mexicans?”
Chief Oshkosh
@germy: And then the shitstain said that the Democrats had cheapened the concept of impeachment by bringing the first impeachment.
Of course, no pushback from George Snufflepuss on that one.
Chris Christie and Li’l Georgie need to be tied together in a canvas bag and tossed in the East River.
Brachiator
I ran across the Arnold video earlier this morning. It is quite eloquent and moving.
Cool to see it noted here, and the interesting comments.
Chief Oshkosh
I liked the Ahnold’s video right up to the sword, which was a bit childish, but OK. I liked the part about welcoming the President-elect. I did not like the words after that, because they conflated loyalty to the country with loyalty to the new President. I know he didn’t mean it that way, but the writing just fell apart. Anyway, that’s nitpicking on m part. Good job, Mr. Schwarzenegger.
Brachiator
@Jinchi:
It was foolish of the Republicans to ever embrace Trump. It will be foolish of them and dangerous for the country if they do not definitively get rid of him. Now it is not just that he may do something stupid during his last days in office, or even that he might run again in 2024. The GOP need to shut him down and to discourage the nutballs who supported the coup attempt and who might be agitated to try again.
J R in WV
@rikyrah:
I have no idea who Tom and Lorenzo are, never heard of them before. But if you scroll down this thread of theirs, you will see that there are multiple “cover” images being discussed. I can’t tell which one may be real, and don’t really have a strong opinion as to which would be better. I am pretty sure VP elect Harris and her staff will have final approval as to what gets published, which is when we will know which image is real.
I read (in the thread) that the colors in the top “cover” image are AKA sorority colors, so Kamala may love the colors. She looks Presidential in both photos, tho, to me. But I’m an old white guy with no relationship to fashion, even for guys. I wore polo shirts and jeans that weren’t blue to work, because the HR rule was no “blue jeans” not “no denim pants”. And the polo shirts had the agency logo on them, so somewhat like a uniform shirt. Since I was in house rather than a field worker, I was never issued a uniform, thank FSM!!
Interesting and fun diversion during an insurrection against democracy! Really!
moonbat
@debbie: Next he’ll be saying there’s no basement in the Alamo.
J R in WV
@Citizen_X:
Nope. Just paste the whole address if you can’t get the link insert to work for you. Swipe it, press Control-C to copy it (unless you’re using an Apple device, you’re on your own there) and then Control-V to paste it into a comment.
Chris T.
Well now, you have a point…
Ceci n est pas mon nym
I get the rhetorical point he was making and I’m OK with it. But I wanted to laugh at that point. I was in fact yelling at the screen, “It’s a prop sword! I’m not even sure it’s made out of metal!!”
PST
@J R in WV: I also liked the cover photo just fine. I thought Kamala looked nice and exactly like herself.
J R in WV
@Omnes Omnibus:
Pretty sure NO ONE said there were welded, but that being a trained welder, he knew about tempering metal objects.
Swords are forged, heated and pounded out. over and over.
Folded and heated in a carbon-rich flame, which is how you get carbon-steel back when swords were a primary weapon of war. The folding and pounding out is how Damascus Steel is made.
I took a welding course also, and you learn a little metallurgy in those courses, if they’re well done. Also have friends who are blacksmiths…
MoCA Ace
Not sure if it’s been mentioned but apparently the PGA is stripping the shitstain’s golf club of the 2022 PGA championship! One more push towards drooling madness I hope. He loves his golf only slightly less than twitter and himself.
Jinchi
Arnold was a pretty good governor for a Republican in the time of Palin. I remember the rest of them tripping over themselves to reject federal aid once Obama took office, having embraced her “thanks but no thanks” BS about the Bridge to Nowhere. When Christie rejected billions for the Hudson River tunnel Schwartzenegger publicly scoffed and said he’d be happy to take it for California.
Brachiator
@rikyrah:
Very cogent Twitter post. Trump didn’t just expect Pence to have “courage” and switch the votes in Trump’s favor. He sent the mob to punish Pence if he failed to deliver.
Trump should not be allowed to get away with this by continuing his term.
Jinchi
Oh, well. If he’s only talking about hanging some editors, no problem.
anon
Please, let’s not be featuring harassers and rapists like Arnold
Bill Arnold
@The Moar You Know:
Yeah, he’s clearly not a metallurgist. I gave it a pass, ’cause he’s Conan, not a metallurgist.
Bill Arnold
@Steeplejack (phone):
He’d have to try an impeachment first, probably. (I don’t know the details of the rules through, and don’t have an estimate on the odds that NP will succeed.)
jonas
@TruthOfAngels: Yeah, now that he’s been deplatformed, he really has no other way of getting his messaging out other than the usual way: talking to the media like normal presidents used to do, so I doubt we’ll be hearing much directly from him. I guess he could do a sitdown with Newsmax or OAN and wax batfuckingnuts about the stolen election, hacked voting machines, the unfairness of it all, or whatever, but those networks now have to tread very carefully about allowing wild allegations about voting machine hacking to go unchallenged, to say nothing about other unhinged criminal threats Trump might make.
He’s utterly humiliated at this point. His followers are being arrested. His staff is terrified that they’ll never wash his stink off them and they’ll be radioactive to most prospective employers in the future (at least ones willing to pay them well). His own vice president has basically told him to get bent.
Feathers
@Jinchi: East coaster, but my sense of the Governator was that he was hoping that he could lead the Republican Party down a more moderate path. When he realized that he failed, he devoted himself to voting rights, bipartisanship, and offering a roadmap to a way out of the crazy to right wing Republicans.
I know folks here are probably right to scoff, but we are not The Arnold’s target audience. For low information voters who aren’t too far down the Q path, he’s offering an excuse to step back.
NotMax
BTW, re: headline, there it no “t” in Schwarzenegger.
NotMax
@NotMax
it = is
(glares at fingers)
Ruckus
@rikyrah:
Those are better pictures than what the FBI has on their page asking for identification.
BTW one of the faces looks familiar. Not a friend/acquaintance but it looks like someone I’ve known from somewhere. I think it was when I was in pro sports. Name escapes me completely. And the picture isn’t in your link, but is on the FBI page.
Ruckus
@Alison Rose:
It’s a small smidgen but yes it’s there.
Ruckus
@The Moar You Know:
I wondered if anyone else would know this.
Different types of steel get stronger with proper heat treatment.
Improper/over heat treatment makes them very brittle and weak. And the things made out of these mistreated steels fail dramatically.
Ruckus
@Citizen_X:
Non front pagers/normal folk are not allowed to imbed photos or tweets. You can post links, as others such as myself do and as you ended up doing.
The point is that we can type and link and that is our limit.
RaflW
And if there are typos, deal. It’s Sunday morning.
Heh, only in the headline, so why worry? ;)
NotMax
@RaflW
As you pointed out upstairs, it impedes those doing a search.
evodevo
@germy: yes..yes they did. To my astonishment…
Enhanced Voting Techniques
Damn, that was a good one from Arnold.
Enhanced Voting Techniques
@The Moar You Know: That’s not Arnold’s point – the tampered blade is a stronger is a common Catholic thing about keeping fighting the good fight when things are really bad.
nasruddin
What Arnold talked about in this video is really events in Nazi Germany. By Kristallnacht anyway Austria had been incorporated into Nazi Germany (mentioned earlier) & from then til the end of the war had no separate existence.
After the war Austria was partitioned separately but similarly to Germany. Vienna was shared but surrounded by the Soviet zone like Berlin in Germany (think The Third Man). Arnold grew up in Graz I think which was in a western power zone but not far from the Soviet zone. In the mid ’50’s Austria was sorted out into a neutral but united state. I know I’ve heard him talk about Russian tanks a couple of times, while governor & on some podcast (maybe Tim Ferriss’s).